»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 28 November 2015.
timotimo ah, no, it's just some code that gets run on startup that uses postfix:<++> i suppose 00:00
diakopter_______ m: my int64 $x = 2**63; my int64 $y = -2**63; say $x + $y; say $x - $y;
camelia rakudo-moar 20718a: OUTPUT«0␤0␤»
diakopter_______ timotimo: ^^
Zoffix m: class テスト { method モー { say "モー" } }; テスト.new.モー 00:01
camelia rakudo-moar 20718a: OUTPUT«モー␤»
Zoffix \o/
00:03 n0tjack left
timotimo neato 00:03
zengargoyle m: say 二十一 + 二十二; 00:07
camelia rakudo-moar 20718a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/W6v6ySaXzM␤Undeclared routines:␤ 二十一 used at line 1␤ 二十二 used at line 1␤␤»
ilmari .u 二十一
yoleaux U+4E00 <CJK Ideograph, First> [Lo] (一)
00:09 lucasb left
zengargoyle m: for 一..十 -> { .say } 00:09
camelia rakudo-moar 20718a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Function '十' needs parens to avoid gobbling block␤at /tmp/4fXQZ5oB8D:1␤------> 3for 一..十 -> { .say }7⏏5<EOL>␤Missing block (apparently claimed by '十')␤at /tmp/4fXQZ5oB8D:1␤------> 3for 一..十 -> { .say }7⏏…»
rjbs Hi! 00:10
Configure.pl loads tools/lib/NQP/Configure.
pm, which requires perl 5.10.
but instead of saying "use v5.10" it dies horribly on syntax errors
What kind of PR would you prefer? A better use line, or a fix for the syntax?
(I'd prefer to supply the former.)
dalek kudo/nom: 5a9e0b1 | timotimo++ | src/core/ (2 files):
throw out a few expensive ++ in hot-ish pieces of code
Zoffix rjbs, do whatever you think is the best solution and submit that :) 00:13
I doubt a core P5 hacker can mess it up :P
rjbs Hm. Failing to pass the nqp/moar/build/probe.pm test on solaris with gnucc. 00:14
Zoffix :(
zengargoyle how big a thing is the 5.10 needing thing?
rjbs zengargoyle: I'm not sure. At minimum, it uses //
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rjbs I think it's fair to require 5.10. That's system perl for years now. 00:15
bbiab
zengargoyle not sure if they started w/ 5.008 and just never noticed using 5.10isms
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: a21fbfb | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (2 files):
Fix decoding JSON on raw bytes (flussence++) (Closes #48)
 00:16
zengargoyle guess unless somebody wants to go back and make sure everything is 5.8 clean forevermore... 5.10 is probably ok. 00:17
timotimo hm. what does CentOS have in its old-ish version?
zengargoyle 5.8 in like CentOS 5.x IIRC
Zoffix ew
zengargoyle 5.8.8 thou i think. 00:18
but CentOS/RedHat Perl is usually borked in some way or another even if recent. :)
timotimo TimToady: i'm a bit surprised you called it STATEMENT_LIST and not STATEMENT-LIST 00:19
Zoffix :O
00:21 donaldh left
TimToady it's still really an internal name, hence _ 00:21
uruwi Why can't I return a lowercase int from a method? 00:22
zengargoyle wonders if i should even think about trying to compile for Solaris 10 i86pc with Sun compilers. 00:23
Hotkeys er 00:24
nvm
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: 8d3f016 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/Controller/Root.pm:
Mention in docs that /total is now definitely used by www.modulecounts.com/ lest someone decides to toss it
uruwi m: my int a {return 1;}; say a;
camelia rakudo-moar 20718a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/CFu_sK2OdF␤Malformed my␤at /tmp/CFu_sK2OdF:1␤------> 3my int7⏏5 a {return 1;}; say a;␤»
uruwi m: sub int a {return 1;}; say a;
camelia rakudo-moar 20718a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_NzOpX4_5n␤Did you mean to write "my int sub a" or put "returns int" before the block?␤at /tmp/_NzOpX4_5n:1␤------> 3sub int a7⏏5 {return 1;}; say a;␤»
uruwi m: int sub a {return 1;}; say a;
camelia rakudo-moar 20718a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/AwzZCao5q0␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/AwzZCao5q0:1␤------> 3int7⏏5 sub a {return 1;}; say a;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ stateme…» 00:25
uruwi m: sub a returns int {return 1;}; say a;
camelia rakudo-moar 20718a: OUTPUT«1␤»
Zoffix m: sub a returns int {return 1;}; say a.WHAT;
camelia rakudo-moar 20718a: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
TimToady moritz: s/wroth/worth/ 00:27
"I am wroth a lot." --Donald Trump
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TEttinger "I am become death, destroyer of worlds" --a GOTO label in a java function I wrote 00:33
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timotimo m: my int $a; say $a.WHAT 00:35
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
timotimo uruwi: the .WHAT causes it to be boxed, i believe
[Coke] m: my Int a = 3; say a ~~ int; 00:38
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/34R5ARKA1b␤Malformed my (did you mean to declare a sigilless \a or $a?)␤at /tmp/34R5ARKA1b:1␤------> 3my Int a7⏏5 = 3; say a ~~ int;␤»
[Coke] m: my Int \a = 3; say a ~~ int;
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«False␤»
[Coke] m: my int \a = 3; say a ~~ int;
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected int but got Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/IStRAFK0ll:1␤␤»
rjbs Should this be fatal, or just "things won't be as fast": Configuring native build environment ................... JIT isn't supported on i86pc-solaris yet. 00:43
timotimo definitely not fatal 00:44
rjbs So, what I end up with is:
probing whether your compiler thinks that it is gcc Can't compile simple gcc probe, so something is badly wrong at build/probe.pm line 92
00:44 molaf left
rjbs both gcc and cc report: gcc (GCC) 3.4.6 00:44
timotimo huh
rjbs I don't see any option for verboser reporting.
timotimo perhaps probe.pm is easy enough to look into? 00:45
timotimo has to go now
rjbs yeah, working on that 00:46
so far, ust Command failed (status 512):
diakopter_______ TEttinger: I thought java didn't have goto
rjbs woah
TEttinger diakopter: technically, no. but it does have labeled break
and it uses the same syntax for labels as GOTO
rjbs Okay, surely this is a problem with my local install. I'll sort tha tout.
diakopter_______ rjbs: well it should at least hint to use --no-jit 00:47
rjbs maybe it isn't obvious; the error I get is: probing whether your compiler thinks that it is gcc cc: installation problem, cannot exec `as': No such file or directory 00:48
diakopter_______ TEttinger: oh, yes, upwards goto... yeah 00:51
TEttinger C# has actual goto, which is kinda interesting that of all the modernizing changes to java they made, they also add goto 00:52
geekosaur rjbs, there's an OS package you need to install for that; which solaris version? 00:54
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rjbs illumos, I'll pkg in build-essential later tonight 00:54
thanks
gtodd rjbs: you're using illumos!? 00:55
wheee!
rjbs Should I be ashamed? :)
gtodd haha no
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rjbs Pobox runs on SmartOS, but I told a coworker I'd prove out building rakudo on illumos for him. 00:56
gtodd it's some good stuff rbac zfs etc etc
geekosaur would actually have been able to help with actual solaris, being that he supports a couple customers that still use it extensively >.>
(I had a little smartos box installed here at one point, but it was too little; 2GB doesn't cut it for zfs root >.> )
gtodd geekosaur: true ... it always "feels" small because I boot it from a USB key 00:57
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TimToady pity we didn't name NativeCall something like "Nativity"... 01:41
gtodd hehe
and article describing it as part of the advent could use the title in a pun-like way ... 01:42
an article
01:43 diakopter___ left
geraud How could I check that $something does a My::Role? with the smartmach operator? 01:43
TimToady
.oO(there is no pun-like way, only a pun-hate way)
geraud: that works
m: say Hash ~~ Associative
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«True␤»
geraud hum... 01:45
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rjbs So, moarvm's build seems to always pass -mt on Solaris, even if using gcc. 01:49
Then, it ends up trying to build moar's jit code, but it seemed to say it wasn't possible... 01:52
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rjbs Can I use --moar-option somehow? Doesn't seem documented. 01:56
rjbs uses --moar-option=--no-jit 01:57
psch rjbs: if youre working on compiling for a new platform i'd recommend two things: (1) build things in separate steps and (2) for building moar, maybe join #moarvm and complain there if you stumble 01:59
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rjbs I'm mostly trying to just get this done ASAP because it's a favor and not something actually helpful to me. ;) 02:00
psch rjbs: Configure.pl should have checked out everything for you already, which means you have nqp/ below your rakudo clone and nqp/MoarVM for moar
rjbs: oh, nevermind then :)
psch needs to get some rest anyway o/ 02:01
rjbs undefined symbol cfmakeraw :-/
ni ni
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cygx rjbs: you need a more recent libuv version (cf github.com/libuv/libuv/commit/672b...8d70a75df7 ) 02:05
probably worth a moarvm ticket 02:06
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cygx 'night o/ 02:09
02:09 cygx left
ShimmerFairy using modules: still broken 02:12
skids Yeah. Also panda rebootstrap.pl (easy fix, use ~$_ on the complaining line, but then dies on trying to install already-installed File::Find) 02:15
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ShimmerFairy skids: by using modules being broken, I mean trying anything that hasn't been "installed" (I guess). See rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=126765 02:17
skids: so I have no clue about if/how rebootstrap.pl is broken, I haven't gotten that far :P
skids Oh, I don't have that problem, I install in ~/.local and only run from one account (agree it's a problem of course.) 02:19
geraud glad to see I'm not the only one having troubles with panda. Although, I'm struggling with bootstrap.pl believing CompUnit::Repository is a function.
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ShimmerFairy skids: to anyone who might suggest I should just change install location, I can only say "remove the local/ bit and you'll have what every single package manager will end up doing" :) 02:24
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lucs Um, panda fails for me too. 02:25
skids Yeah, pretty much. My last laptop I was using /usr/local/
lucs Is the culprit panda or rakudo?
skids I guess it depends on what fails with an exit code when reinstallation fails, whether it should, and how panda should react when it does. 02:26
lucs Oookay :)
skids (but the "expected Str but got CompUnit::Local::Installation" one is a panda problem.) 02:27
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Herby_ Good evening, everyone! 02:28
skids :/ so much indirection 02:31
Herby_ I'm having an issue with a simple 02:32
"spurt" example
when I append a file, I can't get it to recognize a newline character
uruwi Anyone care to help me?
github.com/bluebear94/Math-Random/...dom/MT.pm6
Apparently this class's new method doesn't accept a named parameter for w
(Unexpected named parameter 'w' passed) 02:33
[Coke] Herby_: newlines are special. 02:34
Herby_ Coke, how would I spurt append "blah blah \n another line"?
[Coke] Zoffix: it would be nice if, when searching on docs, if I could type "spurt<enter>" and if only one thing came back for spurt, have it autoselect and go. 02:36
Herby_: checking.
Herby_ I swear I've looked :)
spurt "datafile.txt", "blah blah \n another line", :append;
that just puts everything on the same line
[Coke] Herby_: "stuff".IO.spurt("lots of \n stuff", :append); 02:37
llfourn uruwi: it looks like it should. FWIW I've also had odd errors like that, they were usually indicative of some other problem...
[Coke] ^^ that works fine here.
Herby_: what version of rakudo are you using?
Herby_ 2015.11?
skids What's .IO.nl-out set to?
llfourn uruwi: if you can reproduce that bug it would be awesome 02:38
Herby_ skids, I'm not quite sure how to check that
[Coke] m: say "stuff".IO.nl-out
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«␤␤»
skids Herby: just say it
Herby_ coke, actually I'm on 2015.09
[Coke] Herby_: that's ancient. :) 02:39
Herby_ I get an error when I say that
skids Yeah it wasn't invented then. 02:40
Herby_ "Method 'nl-out' not found for invocant of class 'IO::Path'
ok
so I need to update my rakudo?
Hotkeys might want to update
Herby_ another dumb question. I'm on Windows 7. Is there an easier way to update Rakudo other than uninstall, reinstall?
AlexDaniel m: say gather for ^10 { take take take take ^10 .pick }
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«(2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 4 4 4 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 7 7 7 7 2 2 2 2 9 9 9 9 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 5)␤»
Hotkeys Herby_: if you can get visual studio 2010 02:41
via a method of your choosing
you can use rakudobrew
Herby_ Will Visual Studio 2013 work, or is it special to 2010?
Hotkeys you can try it
it wouldn't build for me
i've heard the same from others 02:42
Herby_ ok, and worst case scenario just uninstall rakudo and reinstall?
the new version that is
Hotkeys yeah
rakudobrew is a script
you just run 'rakudobrew build moar' from the visual studio command prompt 02:43
and it builds the latest version from the repo
AlexDaniel m: say gather { take gather { take gather { take gather { take 42 } } } }; # that's fun
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«((((42))))␤»
Hotkeys (or you can specify releases like 2015-11)
github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew
skids
.oO(with curli in this state maybe we shouldn't be advising people to brew)
 02:44
Herby_ ok, let me take a look
skids or figure out a triple that is safe
ShimmerFairy Huh, on my system using perl6's mkdir will respect my umask, despite having a 0o777 default parameter (even making it explicit). Is that intended behavior or not?
skids isn't umask enforced by the OS? 02:45
02:46 eternaleye is now known as M-eternaleye
ShimmerFairy skids: I honestly don't know how that all works, so beats me :) 02:46
geekosaur the mode is passed to the OS system call, which applies the umask 02:47
skids yeah you have to chmod to defy your process umask.
02:47 M-eternaleye is now known as eternaleye
ShimmerFairy skids: alright, that modifies my complaint in the bug report somewhat :) 02:48
AlexDaniel is there any recursion limit?
skids not judging from some of the spins I've accidentally created :-) 02:49
Herby_ another beginners question... 02:53
uruwi Oh, stray semicolon
Herby_ the rakudo website only has msi for 2015.09 it looks like: rakudo.org/downloads/star/
uruwi I'd wait for the 2015.11 msi's 02:54
Herby_ okie dokie
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dj_goku anyone having issues building moar-nom on osx? 02:56
err it looks like there might be an issue with panda: Type check failed in assignment to $prefix; expected Str but got CompUnit::Repository::Installation
Herby_ well thanks for the help!
02:56 Herby_ left
skids dj_goku: yes, on the complaining line, use ~$_ instead of $_ 02:57
Hotkeys dj_goku it fails for me on windows too 02:59
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skids Or well, maybe that's not the right fix. 03:01
m: %*CUSTOM_LIB.perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::Dynamic::NotFound.new(name => "\%*CUSTOM_LIB"), backtrace => Backtrace.new)␤»
dj_goku skids: there are a few new commits on panda. 03:02
ShimmerFairy m: say %*CUSTOM_LIB 03:03
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable %*CUSTOM_LIB not found␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/BCtwCyLBjn:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/BCtwCyLBjn:1␤␤»
ShimmerFairy The funny thing is that a recent commit claims to fix this.
dj_goku skids: weird, made the change and re-ran rakudobrew build moar and it is moving along. 03:04
skids Yeah the fix dslodges things but only by making a failure go unnoticed. 03:05
dj_goku ahh failed further down the script.
:(
skids Reinstalling File::Find?
Hotkeys you can just rakudobrew build panda no?
saves you from having to rebuild rakudo
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dj_goku I just nuked moar-nom and all is good now. 03:17
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dj_goku FROGGS_: did you ever finish the testers dancer changes for the unicode issue we discussed? 03:19
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skids Oh I guess that ~$_ fix was actually working -- hrm what are the conditions under which %*CUSTOM_LIB populates? 03:24
dj_goku home => (Any), perl => inst#~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6, site => inst#~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site, vendor => inst#~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/vendor 03:25
oh 03:26
sorry
diakopter np. XD 03:27
skids m: use Pod::To::Text; %*CUSTOM_LIB.perl.say 03:30
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«{:home(Any), :perl(CompUnit::Repository::Installation.new('/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6')), :site(CompUnit::Repository::Installation.new('/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site')), :vendor(CompUnit::Repository::Installation.new('/home/…»
skids There we go. %*CUSTOM_LIB only exists if you actually load something.
ShimmerFairy I was going to suggest that perhaps we should revert the CURI merge what with all the problems, but as far as I can tell it was done as a rebase. What the fuck. 03:31
(Please tell me I'm just missing the merge commit, and that I'm wrong about it being a rebase.)
dj_goku m: say [1.3, 2.8, 32323423.4, 4.0] 03:32
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«[1.3 2.8 32323423.4 4]␤»
ShimmerFairy skids: huh, my :home is unset as well. 03:34
skids In retrospect it might have been best to have made a 2015.11 star before the CURLI merge. I'm sure the pain will subside.
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ShimmerFairy decides to direct her frustration into writing a rant post :P 03:35
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dj_goku timotimo: around? 03:36
diakopter ShimmerFairy: better than a rant post would be a thorough explanation of the pain points and missed expectations, so when nine wakes up, he can calmly absorb the new information and best be able to use his limited time to fix them quickly :D 03:38
ShimmerFairy: I say this because the complaints/symptoms are currently spread quite widely across the irc log and I'm not sure anyone's gathered them all together 03:40
(perhaps you're exactly a right person to collate them?)
ShimmerFairy diakopter: sure, I'm not in the business of writing incoherent ALL-CAPS RAGE, but I'm not in the mood to play nice anymore :) . So, in other words, I'm not gonna mince words or try and point out the positives (esp. since I can't _get_ to the potential positives)
diakopter: essentially, I'd like said post to be informative, but also indicative of the displeasure I feel.
diakopter well, displeasure is a problem of improper expectations, IFF it was feasible/plausible/reasonable to have had appropriate expectations felt :p 03:42
in this case, primary head branch of rakudo should still be considered quite unpredictable on most platforms/systems, even a few weeks before release 03:43
ShimmerFairy diakopter: I think the issue boils down to not nearly enough testing pre-actually-rebase. I'm not sure how that couldn't been achieved without an actually-rebase, aside from thinking about the old alpha/b/etc. days, so I'm not going to act like there could've been way more testing or something.
diakopter no; it was a rushed rewrite, a necessary down-to-the-wire evil 03:44
AlexDaniel “Unhandled exception: failed to load library 'dynext/libperl6_ops_moar.so'” huh?
diakopter ShimmerFairy: not nearly enough testing, when all resources are donated/volunteered/sponsored, will always be the case 03:45
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ShimmerFairy diakopter: so that's why I'm not going to write things with SEETHING RAGE; partly because that's not who I am, and partly because I'm too good at remembering the limitations in our development process :) 03:45
zengargoyle did that ~/.perl6 location get configurable?
dalek osystem: 7b74507 | bluebear94++ | META.list:
Add Math::Random
 03:46
osystem: d6da07d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #100 from bluebear94/master

Add Math::Random: github.com/bluebear94/Math-Random
ShimmerFairy (I do think having more people use the Universal Default Install Location™ would be nice, but alas MoarVM thinks it shouldn't do that default.)
zengargoyle actually shares a rakudobrew amongst multiple users...
diakopter *boggles*
zengargoyle they're both me, but ... 03:47
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diakopter *giggles* 03:47
03:48 uvtc left, yqt left
zengargoyle i have $WORK name to make ssh/email easy and zen me for other stuff, and install stuff on one machine and rsync to other machines (vs building on each machine for each user) 03:48
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zengargoyle have a dread that it's going to be a PITA now. 03:49
uvtc Oooh, nice. Tried rakudobrew this afternoon, and `rakudobrew build-panda` left me searching for where `panda` got installed, but just tried again now and it's there in ~/.rakudobrew/bin!
Juerd I was going to "rakudobrew build moar" before I went to bed, but it failed. 03:50
I'm just dropping this here in case it's useful to anyone
Type check failed in assignment to $prefix; expected Str but got CompUnit::Repository::Installation
in sub MAIN at rebootstrap.pl:13
in block <unit> at rebootstrap.pl:8
Not investigating it because I'm off to bed. Good any(night, $localtime), *
skids Yeah, actually moar succeeded it was panda that failed.
uvtc Is `panda install Linenoise` still the preferred way to get regular keyboard shortcuts working in the repl? 03:52
zengargoyle uvtc: probably, but i'm liking not using Linenoise and just using rlwrap.
it wraps better, handles unicode, keeps history across sessions, does completions on words it has seen. 03:53
uvtc zengargoyle, how do I install rlwrap and make it work with perl6?
dj_goku I was just going to ask the same thing. :D 03:54
zengargoyle you on a linux system? don't know if there's rlwrap for windows... # rlwrap == GNU readline wrapper 03:55
uvtc zengargoyle, yes, Debian Testing.
zengargoyle apt-get install rlwrap
uvtc Ooof. Right. :)
Thanks, zengargoyle
.
dj_goku brew install rlwrap for osx
zengargoyle then: rlwrap perl6 # for the basic usage. Note, i believe you have to not install Linenoise (or remove the Linenoise.pm module for it to work right) 03:56
dj_goku uvtc: rlwrap perl6
zengargoyle: whoops
uvtc zengargoyle, thanks! Running system updates, but will try that after a few minutes. 03:57
zengargoyle i've tweaked a bit...: rlwrap -m -M .pl6 -r -O'^> ' -pBlue -S'> ' --no-warnings -R perl6
dj_goku lol 03:58
zengargoyle which makes Ctrl-^ to edit a line in $EDITOR work nicer... there's still a bit of borkedness since the REPL is line oriented.
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zengargoyle multiple lines from $EDITOR each get their own '> ' prompt sorta inserted in the output vs all running as one big chunk. 03:59
diakopter are REPLs used to prototype ideas about little scripts? or to explore methods/syntax while learning? or what?
zengargoyle both/all 04:00
skids only finds them useful in a debugger context
diakopter do you frequently turn repl transcripts into persistent script files?
or is it more for practice/memory 04:01
flussence on a related note, perl6 supporting “”‘’ quotes is a godsend for shell one-liners, because bash doesn't notice them *at all* :)
uvtc zengargoyle, rlwrap works great. Thanks again!
zengargoyle is bad for working with giant one-liners, then dropping them into $EDITOR and formatting/saving them. :)
but with rlwrap, at least there's a history file you can copy/edit a bit.
do that quite often with BASH work... futz around and then go back and delete the stuff that didn't work. :P 04:02
diakopter ok, so it's more about using a line editor to approximate a multi-line editor where you can iteratively run it up to a certain point only
geekosaur often does "desk calculator" type things and quick checks
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diakopter geekosaur: checking your memory of something? or checking whether something works the way you imagined it, in the course of problem solving? 04:04
mspo doc.perl6.org/language/$_
geekosaur either. or someone pops up in a channel asking for help and I see if I can reproduce it etc
zengargoyle for bigger stuff, i'm a fan of mini-continuous-integration. make the script with a MAIN('test') that does tests, or just outputs.
geekosaur in any case it's not something I do development in 04:05
zengargoyle and use inotify to run it after every save. edit in editor, watch other window for results.
skids Really they are *very* useful inside debuggers, and worth it just for that, so worth supportig in general.
zengargoyle i *think* hoelzro?? is pondering having readline integration support built in. 04:07
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flussence last I heard, the main obstacle there is readline's license 04:08
zengargoyle but it's some sort of licensing issue actually including it. but use it if you have it is fine.
diakopter an insurmountable license to be bundled by default, for sure.. but it would be nice if a module worked seamlessly
zengargoyle yeah, that. i think the hooking in part wouldn't be that difficult. 04:09
i wrote a little filter for rlwrap to remove the extra '> 's, but it's sorta hacky. plenty of filter examples come with the rlwrap install down in /usr/shar/doc/rlwrap or such. 04:11
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bzipitidoo In doc.perl6.org/language/grammars under Action objects, how does the example work? The class seems to have a a "make" subroutine or function, but the object calls "made". 04:27
TimToady made is the incoming ast data from the leaves, make is how you make a new outgoing ast node 04:28
bzipitidoo ast?
TimToady abstract syntax tree
skids abstract syntax tree
TimToady what you get from a parser :) 04:29
ugexe are bin scripts and resources not considered part of a Distribution object?
TimToady well, if you get fancy; by default you just get the match object tree
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TimToady ugexe: I dunno if we've thought much beyond modules 04:30
ugexe what i mean is .install gets passed ($distribution, %resources, %scripts), but to me those seem like they would go in the Distribution object so i wonder if im overlooking something 04:32
diakopter I dunno if TimToady's looked at the new precompile architecture XD
TimToady I do :)
I only read jnthn's gist design 04:33
diakopter er, compunit repo installation architecture, I meant 04:34
bzipitidoo hm... all I get when I try to change the example is "No such method 'made' for invocant of type 'Any'" 04:37
TimToady you have to call it on a Match object that matched 04:38
(and that already did a make)
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MadcapJake Does the new function composition operator `o` support being written as unicode `∘`? 05:46
ShimmerFairy MadcapJake: well, for every unicode-needing operator, we add another operator that uses ASCII only, so infix:<∘> gets defined along with another infix:<o> that just calls the unicode one 05:47
MadcapJake but it does work?
ShimmerFairy MadcapJake: of course it does :) 05:48
MadcapJake just wondering because i looked over the gh repo, and various release notes and nowhere does it mention a unicode version of that op 05:49
ShimmerFairy m: sub infix:<Γ>($a, $b) { $a + $b }; constant &infix:<G> := &infix:<Γ>; say 1 Γ 2; say 1 G 2; # one way of doing it, that AFAIK lets them truly be synonyms
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«3␤3␤» 05:50
ShimmerFairy MadcapJake: well, o is easier to type for most I imagine, and I think (but I don't speak for everyone) that both versions are typically thought of as the same operator, so "the o operator" implies all possible spellings. 05:51
MadcapJake m: sub f($x) { $x + 1 }; sub g($x) { $x + 10 }; my &h = f o g; &h(2); 05:52
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/TOpYsRXBLt␤Undeclared routine:␤ o used at line 1␤␤»
MadcapJake m: sub f($x) { $x + 1 }; sub g($x) { $x + 10 }; my &h = f ∘ g; &h(2); 05:53
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/enmliclFsH␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix ∘ instead␤at /tmp/enmliclFsH:1␤------> 3 1 }; sub g($x) { $x + 10 }; my &h = f ∘7⏏5 g; &h(2);␤»
ShimmerFairy m: sub f($x) { $x + 1 }; sub g($x) { $x + 10 }; my &h = &f ∘ &g; &h(2);
camelia ( no output )
ShimmerFairy m: sub f($x) { $x + 1 }; sub g($x) { $x + 10 }; my &h = &f ∘ &g; say &h(2);
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«13␤»
gfldex at the bottom of github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...rs.pm#L655
ShimmerFairy MadcapJake: you need to use &f form to refer to the routine as an object, otherwise it's seen as a call :) 05:54
MadcapJake oh yeah :P
gfldex: thanks! That's helpful! 05:55
m: sub f($x) { $x + 1 }; sub g($x) { $x + 10 }; my &h = &f o &g; &h(2);
camelia ( no output )
MadcapJake m: sub f($x) { $x + 1 }; sub g($x) { $x + 10 }; my &h = &f o &g; say &h(2);
camelia rakudo-moar 5a9e0b: OUTPUT«13␤»
MadcapJake I just had to check for my own sanity :D
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MadcapJake Just getting some of the latest additions into my perl6 highlighter, thanks for the help! G'night all! 06:02
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hoelzro zengargoyle: I have Readline integration on my TODO list, but ENOTUITS 06:09
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ShimmerFairy to whoever handles the advent site's look: it could really use a search feature :) 06:44
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ShimmerFairy .tell [Coke] looking at gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075c7bb1f5 , there's a spurious Lue line that needn't be there (line 356 of output), and neither the so-called aliases nor the svn-y email for ShimmerFairy should be there either :) 07:10
yoleaux ShimmerFairy: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
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dalek kudo/nom: ec41c2f | (Ricardo Signes)++ | Configure.pl:
Configure ends up requiring perl v5.10.0 for // op
 07:24
kudo/nom: ba106f8 | FROGGS++ | Configure.pl:
Merge pull request #607 from rjbs/config-version

Configure ends up requiring perl v5.10.0 for // op
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Woodi hallo #perl6 :) 07:28
nine .tell FROGGS panda's rebootstrap is obsolete. You can now upgrade your rakudo and keep all installed distributions (including panda)
yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
FROGGS uh 07:29
yoleaux 07:28Z <nine> FROGGS: panda's rebootstrap is obsolete. You can now upgrade your rakudo and keep all installed distributions (including panda)
FROGGS nice :o)
Woodi so which day is features-freeze day ? also: do we have some schema for 6.c errata ?
FROGGS nine++
there will be a feature-freeze?
llfourn Woodi: December 17 is the goal for the release 07:30
Woodi FROGGS: I hope :)
FROGGS Woodi: I don't :o)
nine FROGGS: considering how many bugreports for rebootstrap were there last night, I think I'm gonna remove it right now.
llfourn it will be a feature freeze for what is considered 6.0
El_Che \o/
FROGGS nine: it was just one ug though
bug* 07:31
ShimmerFairy I hope Perl 6 will always walk a middle-road between "always chaotic" and "never change"; I think a healthy mix of keeping backwards compatibility and breaking it would be best :)
Woodi yes, but pleas not +-3 days from 24 Dec :)
nine ShimmerFairy: don't we have all these lexical features so we don't have to break backwards compatibility? 07:32
ShimmerFairy what are "these lexical features" ?
FROGGS use v6.d ?
nine Lexical classes, versioning support, lexical slangs, ... 07:34
El_Che Hi. doc.perl6.org/type/IO::Handle#Newline_options describes how to use nl on a open to set a End Of Line marker (aka record). The documentation seems to suggest that not a lot of customizing is possible ("Defaults to "EOL", which implies accepting any combination of "\n", "\r\n" or "\r" or any other Unicode character that has the Zl (Separator, Line) property").In Perl5 I can set $\ to read by a record (eg separated by an empty line l 07:37
(wow, that was long)
tadzik hmm, new VS apparently supports Perl 07:39
Woodi wow, snow is falling ! ;)
JimmyZ .tell [Coke] for history author of specs : git log -p | grep -v Author | grep -v svn | grep -v @@ | grep -v Message | grep -oP '\S*\s*\S*\s*<.+?[a-z0-9]@[a-z0-9].+?>' | sort | uniq
yoleaux JimmyZ: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
tadzik and if we come up with a TextMate-like grammars or so, it would also have Perl 6 support
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moritz TimToady: thanks, fixed (typo) 07:42
TEttinger tadzik: visual studio code or visual studio? 07:46
the code one is kinda... not great
[Tux] apart from Inline::Perl5 not being able to install due to Pod::Coverage hang, all seems healthy again
TEttinger I had a lot of bugs when I tried it
tadzik TEttinger: the visual-studio, not code 07:47
the proper one :)
TEttinger oooh
tadzik Studio iirc even has perl 6 support
Woodi yay, int main(int argc, char **argv, char **envp) is standard... didn't know...
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[Tux] test 50000 23.073 22.957 07:47
test-t 50000 20.640 20.524
csv-parser 50000 26.104 25.988
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nine [Tux]: so installing to site by default again fixed your issues? 07:50
[Tux] I still have the ~/.perl6 link, but yes, it looks like that
bin 40775 2 203 100 4096 Tue 01 Dec 2015 08:28:09 07:51
2015.11-309-gba106f8 40775 4 203 100 4096 Tue 01 Dec 2015 08:39:55
nine I'm currently working on creating all vendor and site directories at make install instead of at runtime, to ease permission problems
[Tux] nine++
moritz whoever did the perl6advent layout: I like it, but the contrast isn't good enough, IMHO 07:52
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[Tux] .tell jnthn I still have a core dump on utf8-c8, but I now do not have the huge report anymore 07:52
yoleaux [Tux]: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
moritz gray text is hard to read :(
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ShimmerFairy moritz: also needs a search tool :) 07:55
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CIAvash Since it's a wordpress blog perl6advent.wordpress.com/search/something can be used. But it needs a search input. Apparently the theme shows a search box in 404 page. 08:10
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dalek kudo/nom: 13564de | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/Process.pm:
Bring back %CUSTOM_LIB<home>

Needs to be a repo-spec, so we can upgrade it to the repository object later.		 08:11
kudo/nom: f94c31e | (Stefan Seifert)++ | tools/build/Makefile- (2 files):
Create repository directories on make install to fix permission problems
nine rakudo and panda now work again if you usually do sudo make install :) 08:12
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moritz \o/ 08:17
RabidGravy Morning! 08:20
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El_Che moritz++ for the advent 08:22
moritz if you want promote it a bit, please retweet twitter.com/nogoodnickleft/status/...9313449984 08:24
ShimmerFairy Finally finished that blog post I mentioned wanting to do earlier: shimmeryfairy.wordpress.com/2015/1...AB-curi-2/ 08:30
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nine ShimmerFairy: please give rakudo/nom and panda/master a try. The permission problems should be fixed. 08:34
ShimmerFairy Yep, that's what the final note at the bottom mentions :) 08:35
nine ShimmerFairy: if you had invested half of the time of writing the blog post in actually testing the curli branch (it was there in the open all the time!) or adding a couple of lines to Makefile-Moar.in, your blog post would have lost its basis. 08:36
moritz ShimmerFairy: for the record, I'm not very happy with ecoysstem breakage so short before Christmas, breaking it *afterwards* would be much worse
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JimmyZ likes the short break if it will make the future life better :P 08:38
moritz JimmyZ: indeed 08:39
and Christmas without precompilation would be sad too
like a Christmas without Vanillekipferl
stmuk nine++ # fixing up stuff quickly
nine ShimmerFairy: I even asked on this channel what the requirements for merging are and it did fulfill all the requirements that people bothered to name.
JimmyZ consider why parrot died.
moritz nine++ indeed 08:40
stmuk we need everyone ounce (gramme) of speed we can get and precomp is welcome
RabidGravy can't make omelettes, etc, etc
JimmyZ I like parrot, but it hate break, so it is died :( 08:41
stmuk is there anyway of precomp scripts rather than modules (rather than putting script code in a module)?
ShimmerFairy nine: well, I didn't catch that, and in general I didn't see calls for urgent testing. Hell, without touching the branch there's no way I could've known that this issue could come up.
lizmat .botsnack 08:42
yoleaux :D
synbot6 om nom nom
nine ShimmerFairy: I will return the favor and not even bother to answer to the other points of your blog post. I think I'll rather spend the rest of the day off #perl6
ShimmerFairy Well, panda still thinks it can't install my Parsefail module (where I'm fairly confident it did, with an https: source url), but it does work :)
lizmat ShimmerFairy: use the source! 08:43
JimmyZ anyone hates break rakudo should take a look at parrot :P 08:44
ShimmerFairy lizmat: when the problem first came up, I couldn't find a single thing in panda or rakudo that could've broken it, so perhaps I just misremembered do a local panda install ./ or something. Still seems weird that it has to be git://, not https:// 08:46
stmuk wonders if aldi and lidil have Vanillekipferl
JimmyZ good book : www.amazon.com/Parrot-Died-Nancy-Go...0985531304 08:47
lizmat module management has been the elephant in the room for at least the past 3 years
I have tried to get attention to it, but nobody wanted to touch it 08:48
now that there was a sane design finally by someone who knew the ins-and-outs of precomp
I tried to work on it, but realised I was completely burnt out on it 08:49
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lizmat I'm very glad nine took it upon him to implement the design 08:49
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lizmat in the past 6 weeks he has worked very hard to make this happen 08:49
RabidGravy nine++ # doing it
lizmat during this period, I don't think anyone really looked at his work
(which is a feeling I recognize from my work on the newio branch) 08:50
stmuk www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-07-14/...nty-python
RabidGravy I did look but it scared me so I didn't look again ;-)
JimmyZ yeah, nine++ # I didn't looked at his branch though :(
lizmat if you think the curli merge is disrupting, think about when we would have had to do this *after* christmas
the mess would have been immeasurable 08:51
stmuk had a similar reaction to RabidGravy
lizmat so instead of complaining on how the merge was done (technically, source wise, or at whatever level)
I think it would be more constructive to find out what we need to do to make it work (TM)
ShimmerFairy nine++ for fixing my bug, regardless of how I feel about the process the last couple days :) 08:52
RabidGravy and fix the broken things in the ecosystem
lizmat regardless of any purportedly eloquent blog posts
JimmyZ help it instead of complaining :P
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RabidGravy make all the things work 08:53
El_Che hi, I hear from Fosdem that there may be some spaces left on the maintrack to put "popular devroom speakers" there. With Christmas coming, it may be a good idea? 08:54
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ShimmerFairy lizmat: well, I have pointed out what I needed fixed, and did try poking at rakudo's source to try and figure out what's going on, what it was trying to ask for, but I'm not nearly familiar enough with CURI stuff to have made the fix myself. And I kept going on about it because I couldn't just let such a serious problem get the chance to be ignored. 08:54
lizmat ShimmerFairy: the problem existed for at least 3 years already, it is now finally surfacing, do you really think this would not get fixed asap??? 08:55
stmuk its usually best to wait at least 2 days before complaining about breakage (which most of us discover the hard way)
lizmat if anything, your blog post impedes any fixing, as it has taken all of the -Ofun out of it for many people involved 08:56
moritz (but report immediately)
lizmat and, whether you like it or not, -Ofun is what fuels the development of Rakudo Perl 6 08:57
masak good morning, #perl6
lizmat masak o/
Woodi nine: pleas back...
RabidGravy I'd already started fixing the fallout by yesterday evening, after seeking out and fixing some Supply fall out during the day 08:58
but hey 08:59
ShimmerFairy lizmat: I do try to not be unreasonable (e.g. I've done my best to not claim that people working on CURI should've been able to predict all the problems), but on the other hand I refuse to pretend to be alright with a problem that, within seconds of trying a new build, reveals that I can't do Perl 6 until it was fixed.
JimmyZ hope this post will be deleted, because developer should be encouraged instead of being complained when they are doing hard work! 09:00
ShimmerFairy lizmat: so on the one hand I don't _want_ to ruin anybody's fun, on the other hand I am not going to mince words when things have gone wrong. (I suppose I got that from my mother ☺) 09:01
stmuk github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew/pull/66 is needed
RabidGravy anyhow I have a class Foo with a "multi method ACCEPTS(DateTime:D $d)" and DateTime.now ~~ Foo.new works as expected, is the only way of getting Foo.new ~~ DateTime.now to work is to get an ACCEPTS(Foo $f) into DateTime somehow?
(monkey-patch, apply role to instance etc) 09:02
lizmat re: the problem not being able to install again
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lizmat if *ANYBODY* would have taken the effort of trying out the curli branch, they would have known 09:03
masak "ufo is an oooold program from way back, back when panda didn’t even exist, if I recall." -- ShimmerFairy: while that is entirely true, it's also largely irrelevant, as ufo was never in the same niche as panda.
lizmat nobody did (and that includes myself, for which I'm very sorry)
ShimmerFairy masak: yes, I was just pointing out my own personal reaction to the times where ufo comes up as a possibly better solution to using modules, because of its age and origin in the pre-module-manager days :) 09:04
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masak ShimmerFairy: your post comes over as very irate and quite unhelpful. 09:05
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lizmat
.oO( seeing a sentence with quite and irate, makes me realize every sperm is sacred )
 09:06
masak ShimmerFairy: I skimmed it to check whether it was as bad as lizmat claimed, and I think it is. I'm a bit saddened that you would spend all that time on a long post to effectively bad-mouth some ongoing development.
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masak ShimmerFairy: instead of, say, helping. :/ 09:07
lizmat or at least, create tickets!
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ShimmerFairy masak: like I've said, I tried to be as helpful and restrained as possible, but the irate nature was intentional (most concentrated in the rebase part, in my view), since the whole ordeal feels like a bad screw-up in procedure. 09:07
lizmat: I did create a ticket for my problem, so it's at least not my problem that others' problems weren't similarly handled.
masak ShimmerFairy: I stopped reading at "fucking rebase", because it was clear to me you don't know what you're talking about with that one.
ShimmerFairy: becoming upset about a merge actually being a rebase (for a branch you didn't contribute to yourself) is bad manners, and unhelpful. 09:08
stmuk actually still ufo is useful when panda breaks :) 09:09
ShimmerFairy masak: I'm still open to being shown where I stupidly missed the merge commit, and I did admit in that section that it's an overreaction because it was discovered in the context of "and now I can't even undo the 'merge' if I wanted to. Cool." 09:10
(and I don't think my lack of contribution to the branch makes me less qualified to mention how bad it is to rebase publicly-pushed commits) 09:11
masak ShimmerFairy: once you get a bit more experience with Git, you will realize that it's not all that bad and that you were indeed overreacting.
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masak ShimmerFairy: until then, I would advise you to be a bit less alarmist about things. 09:11
ShimmerFairy: because it's not helping. I'd prefer you do things that are helping. 09:12
ShimmerFairy masak: in this case, with a big feature that might need reversion, it was a mistake. I can only imagine how messy it would've been had I rebased instead of merged my allomorphs work when it turned out to be too slow still.
masak it's not such a big deal. 09:13
commits branches that were rebased can be reverted just as much as merges.
reverting a merge commit is its own "fun" can of worms.
dalek ast: 8b16ee6 | lizmat++ | S02-types/range.t:
Add some Range.rand tests
 09:14
JimmyZ shimmeryfairy.wordpress.com/2015/1...comment-12 # my comments on this post :(
ShimmerFairy masak: true, and reverting that merge a while back showed me how "fun" that can be, but regardless one merge commit is easier to handle than dozens of rebase commits :) 09:16
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RabidGravy tum-ti-tum 09:16
RabidGravy rudely augments DateTime 09:17
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masak ShimmerFairy: your post stands out as a wild unnecessary rant that's obviously wounding people in the project who did good work, and is inviting outsiders to (unnecessarily) get a bad opinion about the Rakudo project. it's not doing much in the way of being constructive. 09:29
ShimmerFairy: I guess what I'm saying is, please remove the post. or large parts of it. or rewrite it when you're feeling better.
it is possible to use rants for great good. but that's not the way. 09:30
JimmyZ masak: +1 , I am not hope this post make some people leaving #perl6 09:31
masak :(
lizmat masak: +1
ShimmerFairy masak: what perplexes me is that I thought I was doing a good job of not sounding too angry (except for the part about rebasing, where I fully admit to not trying to be reasonable so much). I tried my best to listen to diakopter's advice when I mentioned wanting to write a rant post. 09:32
masak definitely not doing a good job of not sounding too angry
btyler ShimmerFairy: agree, that blog post is pretty dang blame-heavy and unconstructive 09:33
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masak lizmat++ FROGGS++ nine++ others++ # work on modules 09:34
btyler totally understand being annoyed about software breaking when a disruptive branch lands, but yelling at volunteers isn't the way to make the situation better
lizmat purport: appear to be or do something, especially falsely
masak of course there are rough edges. and of course we still have ways to go with process.
Woodi ShimmerFairy: I once bashed our ex-Prime Minister in very rude way on FB. then I apologised. I still thinking he is traitor - can be wrong on this - but still my post was was made in very sub-quality way... such life, hierarchy is important thing 09:35
stmuk IRC is a better place to whine than blogs or talks IMO
masak "it's hard to get others to look at my branch" should come as a surprise to no-one. we can get better in various ways.
ShimmerFairy .tell Mouq now that I can use perl6, I'm also seeing the same strange parse fail in SUPERNOVA's test.p6 that wasn't there pre-CURI. Weird, I'll have to look into it when I have time.
yoleaux ShimmerFairy: I'll pass your message to Mouq.
JimmyZ ShimmerFairy: I replied you reply ;)
lizmat afk for a few hours (and no, this has nothing to do with ShimmerFairy) &
btyler (on a happier note: lizmat! missed you at AmsterdamX last night -- someone wrote a perl6 SQL schema change linter using grammars at the hackathon last week :) 09:36
masak "While perhaps in another mood I’ll be willing to add some kind of warning/disclaimer to the top of the post, I won’t delete this post." -- ShimmerFairy: I hope you will reconsider.
lizmat btyler: between CruiseToTheEdge, T-Dose, Amsterdam.pm and LPW, we just had to drop one meeting :-(
Hotkeys Yeah I whined about the repl being broken in windows for at least a week before fixing it with help
btyler no worries, you guys keep a crazy schedule :)
Hotkeys Irc is good for it
masak ShimmerFairy: half a dozen people have now kindly asked you to delete the post. please consider that. 09:37
ShimmerFairy: you can put it up as a private gist or something for posterity.
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masak ShimmerFairy: I'm just dreading that perl weekly or something will pick it up and go "oh, looks like the Perl 6 people are having some process problems of late" and your post will be disseminated far beyond what it deserves and create further bad assumptions among barely-involved outsiders. 09:39
I'm not saying it makes the cut for inclusion in perl weekly at all, but it's still a risk.
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Nei !@% I symlinked rakudobrew to my ~/bin and it wiped my bin folder ;( 09:40
ShimmerFairy Well, I am considering taking down the post for "this isn't helping" reasons, but not for "what if this mess-up in the past couple days gets a bit more publicity" reasons. I still think it's a real problem that really happened, so I'm not concerned if more people than average become aware of it.
masak yes, then please take it down for "this isn't helping" reasons 09:44
the second reason would just be that too, but to a bigger audience :/
JimmyZ ShimmerFairy: please see my second reply ;) 09:45
masak I second JimmyZ's second reply :)
ShimmerFairy JimmyZ: don't worry, I did, I get emailed on replies :)
RabidGravy hey, let's get fixing things 09:48
Ulti with =~= in mind is a +- operator that creates a range around an integer a worthwhile operator? So you can do stuff like if $thing ~~ $int +- 5 {}
stmuk odd travis error with "panda not found" I had to hardcode a path to fix it but not sure why .. maybe a travis change rather than rakudo
El_Che ShimmerFairy: I think your first reason is a valid reason (showing your good faith). About the second, I think this channel is a valid forum for that kind of discussions. 09:50
nadim good morning, is it possible to have map extract arguments to the code block? I understand it is done when the code block is passed by reference but I wonder if one can do some thing like this: @.map: -> (a, $b, $c) { ...}
RabidGravy stmuk, travis has been shagged for a few days, it went through a period of timing out on some random test 09:52
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RabidGravy nadim, yes 09:52
JimmyZ ShimmerFairy: Thank you ;) 09:54
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RabidGravy m: my @a = [<a b c>, <A B C>]; @a.map( -> $z ($a, $b, $c) { "$a - $b - $c"})>>.say ; # nadim 09:56
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«a - b - c␤A - B - C␤»
RabidGravy perl6++ # things of beauty
El_Che If I want to give a hint to rakudo to free some memeory is it a good idea to @big_array = Nil ?
nadim indeed
JimmyZ nqp::force_gc ? 09:58
09:58 csd_ joined 10:02 sitaram left, yeahnoob left 10:03 csd_ left
sergot hmm 10:06
does travis fail with p6 projects, or is it just me? 10:07
at least with those which use panda
masak sergot: travis hasn't complained about 007, at least 10:08
10:08 n0tjack joined
sergot just pushed something, let's see 10:09
10:10 espadrine joined, CIAvash left
sergot masak: 007, doesn't use panda, so it won't fail 10:11
/home/travis/build.sh: line 45: panda: command not found
2 projects I've checked fail
timotimo o/
sergot hi timotimo ! 10:12
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brrt ohai timotimo 10:13
stmuk maybe its the shim code
I have /bin/sh: 6: /home/travis/.rakudobrew/bin/panda: not found
timotimo travis isn't panda-happy at the moment, indeed 10:14
stmuk ==> Please make sure that inst#/home/travis/.perl6/2015.11-282-gaf4d62e/bin is in your PATH
Updating shims
timotimo yeah 10:15
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timotimo it uses that interesting path to install in nowadays 10:15
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sergot wow 10:16
10:17 Ch0c0late left
timotimo stmuk: -282 is quite a bit old already 10:18
stmuk: can you ping travis again about this?
nadim Any document about the piping ops (===>) that maybe cure my blues of not being able to do >> on arrays.
timotimo dj_goku: i'm around now. i fear you might not be, though 10:19
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timotimo nadim: worst-case you'll find info in the design.perl6.org and the spec test suite under perl6/roast 10:20
10:20 telex joined 10:21 lustlife joined
timotimo ==> Please make sure that inst#/home/timo/perl6/install/share/perl6/site/bin is in your PATH 10:26
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nadim timotimo: thanks, knowing the name of the operator (feed) did help a bit with the search, I need to find out if it cann feed in a code block, not supported is the message I get, next stop the test suite :) 10:37
timotimo oh, i neglected to point out the name
masak oh, 'inst#/', eh? :) 10:39
I guess that's not actually part of the path, though. more like some namespace thingy.
brrt is panda still dead? 10:43
10:43 krakan left
brrt i should have hoped it lived now 10:43
ShimmerFairy nine, masak, JimmyZ, et. al.: shimmeryfairy.wordpress.com/2015/12/01/sorry/
timotimo brrt: panda is rather happy today 10:44
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timotimo brrt: i created new ops in the jit and didn't fail horribly! isn't that grate! 10:44
brrt yay!
timotimo++
(i vaguely renember seeing that :-))
rudi_s_ Hi. I'm trying to use NativeCall with the following function from PAM: int pam_start(const char *service_name, const char *user, const struct pam_conv *pam_conversation, pam_handle_t **pamh); The problematic part (besides not being typesafe) is the pamh argument. How do I model that with NativeCall? 10:45
moritz rudi_s_: preferably as an OpaquePointer
timotimo rudi_s_: well, if you have a class PamH is repr('OpaquePointer') {} you can have Pointer[PamH] for **pamh
moritz rudi_s_: that is, if you just pass it between pam_ functions without ever dereferncing 10:46
rudi_s_ But how does it differentiate between **pamh and *pam_conversation?
timotimo brrt: this one's a good candidate for inclusion in the exprjit, too. but usages of it don't happen at the start of blocks. but it could potentially keep us from having to getlex twice for "$foo = $foo + 1"
moritz rudi_s_: does it need to?
rudi_s_ From the docs I only found out how to use simple pointers, like struct pam_conv *pam_conversion.
brrt oh, fwiw, i got a cannot invoke this object error for t/04-nativecall/cpp.t, linux/x64/master/master/nom
10:46 lustlife` joined
brrt which one are we talking about timotimo 10:46
moritz rudi_s_: it's all just a pointer, so 64bit
rudi_s_ moritz: It's a pam_handle_t **pamh, so it will write to the pointer.
timotimo brrt: the sp_deref_bind and sp_deref_get ones 10:47
brrt all of it is going to the expression jit sooner or later
ah
moritz rudi_s_: do you ever need to dereference that pointer in the Perl 6 code at all?
brrt oh, you implemented those?
cool
i was going to say
*ahem*
timotimo those are the ones i implemented, yes :)
rudi_s_ moritz: No. I don't. But the C function will do that.
timotimo not for the exprjit, though
moritz rudi_s_: then all you have to care is that it's a pointer
rudi_s_: and OpaquePointer is precisely for that use case
timotimo actually
brrt you could also simply use sp_get_i64 and friends to implement the same, provided you tag the intermediary results as an integer rather than an object pointer 10:48
timotimo wouldn't the **pamh say something like "i'm going to change the value of that *pamh for you"?
rudi_s_ Yes.
Which is my problem.
moritz ah
brrt timotimo++ at any rate
timotimo in that case you want "PamHandleT $pamh is rw" in your signature, i think
moritz rudi_s_: is there any pam function that initializes such a handle
?
nine ShimmerFairy: thanks!
timotimo moritz: i think pam_start *is* the function that does that
rudi_s_ moritz: Yes. This function.
10:48 lustlife` left
moritz ah, but it doesn't return it 10:49
how nasty
10:49 vytas left
rudi_s_ Yeah, many C API functions do that. 10:49
arnsholt Yeah, it's a pretty standard pattern for C
moritz rudi_s_: I'm spoiled by the sqlite and postgres C APIs, which are *very* friendly to FFIs :-)
nine ShimmerFairy: please feel free to ping me about any remaining issues you see. But please keep in mind that I do in fact sleep pretty much every day and that I live in UTC+1. 10:50
rudi_s_ Well .. what do I now?
10:50 lustlife left
moritz rudi_s_: what timotimo said 10:50
mrf_ nine: You sleep....How rude :D
rudi_s_ moritz: Ah. 10:51
Can I find documentation for that?
doc.perl6.org/language/nativecall is not that helpfull.
moritz huh, that doesn't mention "is rw"
we should fix that
rudi_s_ Yeah.
arnsholt Yeah, the NativeCall docs are woefully inadequate, sadly
JimmyZ ShimmerFairy: Thank you for your understanding :P 10:52
rudi_s_ timotimo: How do I create PamHandleT? class PamHandleT is repr('CPointer') { }?
arnsholt The best overview is probably the tests, sadly
rudi_s_ arnsholt: Can you give me a link to the tests?
moritz rudi_s_: I opened github.com/perl6/doc/issues/216 for the lack of docs 10:53
arnsholt github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/nom/...nativecall
timotimo rudi_s_: that's one way, yes
rudi_s_ timotimo: Is there a better/another way?
arnsholt: Thanks.
timotimo it'd be fine to have "constant PamHandleT = OpaquePointer" 10:54
RabidGravy I actually thought the nativecall docs were reasonably good, I've only had occassion to improve them a couple of times
arnsholt I'd recommend having it as a separate class
'Cause then you can attach methods and such to it
RabidGravy yeah, I'd go with that
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nadim I find references of "caller" in some P6 docs but I get "undeclared routine", where is the caller information? 10:55
rudi_s_ Thanks, will do. 10:56
brrt .tell rjbs i'm trying to get a solaris/illumos vm running, so far without success, because smartos etc. expect weird things from me, like a dns search host, and i have no idea what that all means
yoleaux brrt: I'll pass your message to rjbs.
brrt if *anybody* could help me get illumos on a vm, i'd be very very happy to check out the jit
RabidGravy rudi_s_, see e.g. github.com/jonathanstowe/Audio-Lib...ut.pm#L389 for what arnsholt is proposing
rudi_s_ Thanks. 10:58
timotimo nadim: there is the CALLER:: namespace
El_Che brrt: hi, I have a solaris background (although no more solaris on new job). Also, if you need solaris access for Perl6, I can point you in the right direction to get access to sparc and x64 machines
timotimo m: sub foo() { say CALLER::&ROUTINE }; sub bar() { foo() }; bar() 10:59
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/MCc7eIo42T␤Malformed lookup of ::&ROUTINE; please use ::('&ROUTINE'), ::{'&ROUTINE'}, or ::<&ROUTINE>␤at /tmp/MCc7eIo42T:1␤------> 3sub foo() { say CALLER7⏏5::&ROUTINE }; sub bar() { foo() }; bar()␤»
timotimo m: sub foo() { say CALLER::('&ROUTINE') }; sub bar() { foo() }; bar()
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«No such symbol 'CALLER::&ROUTINE'␤ in sub foo at /tmp/4VfGKNZ4jI:1␤ in sub bar at /tmp/4VfGKNZ4jI:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/4VfGKNZ4jI:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in sub foo at /tmp/4VfGKNZ4jI:1␤ in sub bar at /tmp/4VfGKNZ4jI:1␤ in block…»
timotimo m: sub foo() { say CALLER::('&?ROUTINE') }; sub bar() { foo() }; bar()
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«No such symbol 'CALLER::&?ROUTINE'␤ in sub foo at /tmp/WjjQGBLgXH:1␤ in sub bar at /tmp/WjjQGBLgXH:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/WjjQGBLgXH:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in sub foo at /tmp/WjjQGBLgXH:1␤ in sub bar at /tmp/WjjQGBLgXH:1␤ in bloc…»
timotimo ...
what's it called again?
nadim timotimo: thanks
timotimo do note that you're only allowed to access variables that are marked "is dynamic" or have a * twigil from the CALLER:: ... that or pseudo-variables 11:00
RabidGravy I'm being thick right now, how do you say "an array where all of the values are in this range" in a sub signature? 11:02
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timotimo @foo where { all($_) ~~ 1..10 } would work 11:02
RabidGravy ah ha! 11:03
nadim timotimo: I went loooking for documentation about CALLER while you weretesting here. no much luck googling Perl6 caller namespace! what I want is information about the call site of the routine I am in. 11:04
RabidGravy m: say callframe.perl 11:05
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«CallFrame.new(level => 2, annotations => {:file("/tmp/xR50JP7FQ7"), :line("1")}, my => Map.new(("!UNIT_MARKER" => !UNIT_MARKER,"\$!" => Nil,"\$/" => Nil,"\$=finish" => Mu,"\$=pod" => [],"\$?PACKAGE" => GLOBAL,"\$_" => Any,"\$¢" => Nil,"::?PACKAGE" => GLOB…»
nadim if that is with ROUTINE, where are all these defined, I guess that there are more interesting ones.
11:05 molaf left
RabidGravy or something like that 11:05
11:06 xinming left
timotimo right, "caller" is supposed to be a function 11:06
m: sub a_sub { b_sub }; sub b_sub { try say caller.subname }; b_sub 11:07
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/nCTIkWMmvs␤Undeclared routine:␤ caller used at line 1␤␤»
timotimo i suppose rakudo doesn't run S06/advanced/caller.t at all in its spectest.data
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jnthn Well, that made depressing backlogging :/ 11:08
yoleaux 07:52Z <[Tux]> jnthn: I still have a core dump on utf8-c8, but I now do not have the huge report anymore
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RabidGravy hands jnthn a pony 11:09
sergot does anyone know what is lib/.precomp? 11:10
jnthn ShimmerFairy: Thank you for apologizing. Please remember that taking on the really difficult tasks that need doing here is already hard enough, the people doing them are human, and if we create a culture of making people think twice before taking on such work then we'll just end up without those things getting done. 11:11
RabidGravy jnthn++
stmuk jnthn++
|Tux| jnthn++
nine sergot: I think, I do
nadim RabidGravy: say callframe.perl did not work here: Can't find method 'perl'. but using callframe on its own works likish P5 caller
RabidGravy sergot, it's a sort of temporary inst# repository for the precompilation 11:12
sergot nine: I got a problem with this - everytime I change a file and want to run test in my project I got something like: Missing or wrong version of dependency
11:13 n0tjack left
sergot also, installing panda failed on my box 11:13
jnthn sergot: In theory it's meant to be looking at the file modification times to know the precomps are invalid.
sergot is this a new feature? 11:14
jnthn sergot: I'm guessing it is doing that, but getting something slightly wrong.
Yes
nine sergot: does it work after you delete lib/.precomp?
work at least once?
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rudi_s_ What is difference between Pointer and OpaquePointer? 11:16
sergot nine: it does
timotimo you can use Pointer like Pointer[int64] or Pointer[Somestruct]
sergot after deleting .precomp
timotimo whereas OpaquePointer doesn't let you do many things
rudi_s_ Ah, thank you. 11:17
timotimo i *think* you can only do pointer arithmetic on Pointer[...] and not OpaquePointer
because then you need to know the size of the thing pointed to
nine sergot: does it work only once, or does it still work after you make additional changes?
sergot nine: it works only once, I need to rm .precomp everytime I want it to work 11:18
nine sergot: ok, then the modification timestamp check is faulty. What system are you on? 11:20
jnthn sergot: If you run it a second time without chanigng anything, it still works? It breaks on first modification?
rudi_s_ Where can I find docs about creating a struct which contains a function pointer? E.g. struct pam_conv { int (*conv)(int num_msg, const struct pam_message **msg, struct pam_response **resp, void *appdata_ptr); } .. };
sergot give me a sec 11:21
jnthn: it works after a second change 11:24
nine: Ubuntu 14.04: Linux c51255 3.13.0-68-generic #111-Ubuntu SMP Fri Nov 6 18:17:06 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux 11:25
gfldex m: my enum E (:E1(0), :E2); sub f($p); f(E2);
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Incompatible MROs in P6opaque rebless␤»
sergot jnthn: I have new discoveries, give me a sec 11:26
jnthn: it fails on first run, works on second one
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sergot yes 11:26
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tadzik damn, LPW looks interesting 11:29
timotimo there will be at least one rant talk about perl6! 11:30
RabidGravy tadzik, found one breakage from curli changes github.com/tadzik/JSON-Unmarshal/pull/14 11:31
rudi_s_ Does NativeCall support function pointers? 11:33
*as members/variables
JimmyZ I always saw "Missing or wrong version of dependency" before :)
which means I need `git clean -xdf` for rakudo 11:34
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sergot jnthn: also, sometime after the "Missing" error/warning it hangs and after a time it continues working well 11:39
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mrf_ tadzik: yeah it should be fun. Mostly looking forward to socializing more than the talks 11:42
tadzik not sure if I'll be able to come, but I'd very much like to see the talks :) 11:43
nine sergot: can you upload the code somewhere so I could have a closer look? 11:44
sergot nine: github.com/masak/007 :) 11:46
stmuk there will be at least one lightening talk on perl6 as well at LPW!
mrf_ is pleased that there are talks on P6 11:47
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sergot I just try to change a file, and run tests after the change. look at branch builtins maybe 11:47
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sergot nine: for example, in lib/_007/Runtime/Builtins.pm change line 161 (on branch builtins) and then run perl6 -Ilib t/features/builtins/operators.t 11:49
lucs I was having panda problems too yesterday -- I just pulled the recent source (as well as rakudo's, which I just rebuild), do I just need to 'bootstrap.pl' now? 11:51
*rebuilt
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nine lucs: yes 11:53
RabidGravy rudi_s_, not directly no
lucs nine: Thanks. 11:54
nine sergot: I can reproduce it here! 11:55
sergot: may be connected to both the test file and _007::Test using Test
11:56 ShimmerFairy left
rudi_s_ RabidGravy: I see, thanks. Then I'll have to come up with a workaround. 11:56
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sergot nine: hmm, that's interesting 11:57
RabidGravy function callbacks do work, do maybe a small piece of C code that is passed a callback and returns the pointer, then "has Pointer $.func;" in the class 11:58
lucs nine: The install is failing with "already installed" -- was I supposed to do something else, and/or would you like to see the detailed error?
nine lucs: oh sorry, I was confused. Actually you shouldn't need to bootstrap anymore. panda should still work. The first run will probably take a lot longer due to precompilation happening. 11:59
lucs Ah, okay. Hmm... So what should I do after pulling the recent source? 12:00
rudi_s_ RabidGravy: Will try that. Thanks.
arnsholt rudi_s_: Do you need to invoke a function pointer, or pass a callback function? 12:02
Or just pass it around? 12:03
nine lucs: oh my. I should really take more time for reading. There's no need for bootstrap after upgrading rakudo. Of course, you need to upgrade panda after pulling. Which it won't let you because it says, that the same version is already installed.
12:03 rindolf left
moritz can we generate a version from git? 12:03
nine lucs: I think, we need a --force flag in panda for such situations. Or start doing versioning for real.
moritz: git describe should give something useful, but that won't help with uncommitted local changes. Such as during panda development. 12:04
moritz nine: right
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nine moritz: same reason install-core-dist.pl now forces installation 12:04
lucs nine: For now, could I just delete a bunch of files or something and try the bootstrap again?
nine lucs: yes, delete ~/.perl6/* and rakudo/install/share/perl6/* and do make install in rakudo again 12:05
lucs nine: Okay, thanks. Trying...
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stmuk how do I work around the "already installed" if I'm test installing my own stuff locally? 12:08
with panda I mean
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nine stmuk: what I told lucs just now 12:09
stmuk oh :) 12:10
lucs nine: Okay, that worked fine. I'll try to install a module, but first, coffee! (back in a few minutes...)
nine stmuk: or simply add the --force flag to panda. CompUnit::Repository::Installation::install already supports :force. It just needs to be hooked up
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stmuk dtrace: failed to execute panda: dtrace cannot control executables signed with restricted entitlements 12:11
wtf
RabidGravy m: my Range $r = 0 .. 59; say $r.grep( * %% 2); # I don't surprise there is a sekrit operator that does that
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«(0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42 44 46 48 50 52 54 56 58)␤»
RabidGravy suppose
stmuk apple--
jnthn restricted entitlements? o.O 12:12
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lucs nine: Turns out I'm getting the -- one of actually :) -- same problem as yesterday: "==> Testing Pod::Coverage" hangs (while doing "panda install Linenoise") 12:19
nine: I will have more info for you soon. 12:20
stmuk I can't use apple dtrace on any /bin/sh scripts .. I have to replace all the shebang lines with my own compiled shell!
stmuk swears and rants at apple
RabidGravy boom! 12:23
masak read that as "* stmuk swears and rants at an apple" 12:24
stmuk hmmm I guess I can work around with a chroot
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grondilu my panda dies with: 12:26
===SORRY!===
Could not find Shell::Command:ver<True>:auth<True>:api<True> in:
(followed by various install path) 12:27
stmuk or disable with some work :/
nine grondilu: are you on current master of rakudo and panda?
brrt restricted entitlements? :-o 12:28
brrt had never heard of such a thing
stmuk internals.exposed/blog/dtrace-vs-sip.html
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lucs nine: fpaste.scsys.co.uk/502212 12:35
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nine The bottom part of the POD::Coverage backtrace: gist.github.com/niner/01c1c7109a79b110aa06 12:38
lucs: The "Could not find Pod::Coverage" is because read_pod runs a new process but doesn't pass on the -I flag to perl6. I don't see how that could have worked even before curli. 12:39
masak ShimmerFairy++ # shimmeryfairy.wordpress.com/2015/12/01/sorry/
lucs nine: Hmm... Yet, did it not use to work? 12:40
nine: Just saying; I'm just a luser trying to get the stuff to run :) 12:41
rudi_s_ arnsholt: I need to store a function pointer in a struct (and pass that struct to a function).
nine lucs: github.com/teodozjan/pod6-coverage/issues/16 could be read as "the problem has existed before" 12:42
lucs nine: Oh :/ 12:43
Am I the only one who can't install Pod::Coverage/Linenoise? 12:44
lizmat fwiw, Pod::Coverage hangs for me as well
rudi_s_ Hm, how do I model a **foo. I have const struct pam_message **msg and I do have a class PamMessage { ... } and need to model that as callback, so I later have to dereference this twice.
nine Posted my information at github.com/teodozjan/pod6-coverage/issues/20 12:45
rudi_s_ Can I do something like Pointer[Pointer[PamMessage]]?
arnsholt rudi_s_: Then you can just make the function pointer an OpaquePointer
sergot m: "One slide with <em>italics</em> in it.".split(/'<'(\w+)'>'.*?'</'$0'>'/, :all) 12:46
camelia ( no output )
sergot m: "One slide with <em>italics</em> in it.".split(/'<'(\w+)'>'.*?'</'$0'>'/, :all).perl.say;
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«("One slide with ", " in it.")␤»
arnsholt Your PamMessage class is already a struct pam_message *, so one level of Pointer is enough to make it a pointer-pointer
12:46 kid51 left
sergot looks like :all doesn't work, am I right? 12:47
lizmat sergot: it's :v nowadays 12:48
masak sergot: it's supposed to also capture the '<em>italics</em>' part, right?
ooh
ok, let's fix it :)
lizmat it was deprecated for about 2 weeks, and I removed the deprecation in light of 6.c
sergot lizmat++ thanks a lot!
lizmat sergot: fwiw, you can now also specify :k, :kv and :p 12:49
sergot lizmat++: ooh, nice! this is very useful for me right now :) 12:50
lizmat ah, and :skip-empty
rudi_s_ arnsholt: Ah, so just Pointer[PamMessage]? 12:51
lizmat "If specified, do not return empty strings before or after a delimiter"
fwiw, the Str.split doc is up to date :-) 12:52
sergot lizmat++: great! will read, thanks again! :) 12:54
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arnsholt rudi_s_: Yup. 12:56
rudi_s_ Thanks. 12:58
12:58 lustlife joined 13:00 Gruber is now known as Grrrr
sergot m: "One slide with <em>italics</em> in it.".split(/'<'(\w+)'>'.*?'</'$0'>'/, :v).perl.say; 13:01
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«("One slide with ", Match.new(ast => Any, list => (Match.new(ast => Any, list => (), hash => Map.new(()), orig => "One slide with <em>italics</em> in it.", to => 18, from => 16),), hash => Map.new(()), orig => "One slide with <em>italics</em> in it.", to =…»
sergot m: "One slide with <em>italics</em> in it.".split(/'<'(\w+)'>'.*?'</'$0'>'/, :k).perl.say;
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«("One slide with ", 0, " in it.")␤»
lizmat sergot: :k only really makes sense if you're using multiple string needles 13:02
Skarsnik m: sub foo {gather {while my $a = bar() {take $a}}}; sub bar {my $b = (1..10).pick; $b == 10 ?? Any !! $b}; say foo()
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«()␤»
Skarsnik m: sub foo {gather {while my $a = bar() {take $a}}}; sub bar {my $b = (1..10).pick; $b == 10 ?? Any !! $b}; say foo() 13:03
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«(3 3 5 2 3 8 6 7 8 5 7 8 1 3 6 7 3 1 7)␤»
Skarsnik oups
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lizmat m: "abcdef".split(<a c e>,:k).say # sergot 13:03
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«( 0 b 1 d 2 f)␤»
Skarsnik how to have this only return 1 result for one foo call?
jnthn walk &
lizmat Skarsnik: foo().[0] ?
Skarsnik bar here is just a dumb example
diakopter giggle 😂 13:04
lizmat Skarsnik: while bar() -> $a # more perl6y 13:05
Skarsnik I try to have a .row method in DBIis that work like a fetchrow but also work used as for $sth.row() -> @row {}
13:06 domm left
diakopter does anyone make emoji animations that tell stories? 13:06
13:07 domidumont left
rudi_s_ arnsholt: How can I mark that Pointer[PamMessage] as read-only? 13:08
arnsholt You can't, really 13:10
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arnsholt At least not a single instance 13:10
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arnsholt You can factor the Perl-side API so that instances are immutable, though 13:10
rudi_s_ Hm. 13:11
arnsholt But if you're looking for something for the const declaration in some API calls, it's not really necessary
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Ulti I can't use panda atm is that a known thing? 13:21
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ZoffixW Where do I get the "bootstrap.pl" from? I rebuilt my rakudo and it ended with ".rebootstrap is obsolete. You can upgrade your rakudo while keeping all installed distributions including panda. Please run bootstrap.pl instead." and installing modules with panda currently doesn't work, so I'm guessing I need to rebuild it, but how? 13:24
By doesn't work I mean I get this error: "Could not find Shell::Command:ver<True>:auth<True>:api<True> in:"
vytas Zoffix, just logged this issue github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/252 13:25
ZoffixW*
13:26 kaare_ joined
nine Who is maintaining rakudobrew? 13:28
rudi_s_ Hm, still having NativeCall issues. C-part: testme(void **x) { printf(">%p<\n"; }, P6-part: my OpaquePointer $xxx; sub testme(OpaquePointer $xxx is rw) is native('./wtf') { * }; testme($xxx);
However x is null when the C testme() is called.
nine Ulti: today's rakudo and today's panda?
diakopter nine: the answer can be found within
rudi_s_ How can I tell P6 to give me a pointer so I can write into it from C.
13:29 lustlife left
lucs nine: My panda installed 'p6doc' successfully, but any opinion on this result?: gist.github.com/lucs/93b561ef4d576a0257cc 13:29
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nine lucs: p6doc clearly needs updating and maybe a rakudo patch, too 13:30
ZoffixW @*INC is no moar :P
lucs D'oh! :)
TimToady PSGI tests fail on @*INC too 13:31
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Ulti nine yeah 13:31
ZoffixW is now building rakudo on a production box for the first time evar :P 13:32
Ulti fresh built after I had problems
Could not find Shell::Command:ver<True>:auth<True>:api<True> in: /Users/con-mo8/.perl6/2015.11-311-gf94c31e
ZoffixW I get same thing 13:33
ZoffixW nukes .rakudobrew and re-tries from scratch
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Ven m: sub f(--> BEGIN Int) { 5 }; say f; 13:33
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/2bQUy33sFd␤Type 'BEGIN' is not declared␤at /tmp/2bQUy33sFd:1␤------> 3sub f(--> BEGIN7⏏5 Int) { 5 }; say f;␤»
ZoffixW and ~/.perl6
Ven m: sub f(--> x()) { 5 }; say f;
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/9IVkZIODa3␤Type 'x' is not declared␤at /tmp/9IVkZIODa3:1␤------> 3sub f(--> x7⏏5()) { 5 }; say f;␤»
Ven m: sub x { Int }; sub f(--> x()) { 5 }; say f;
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Xb7GUs1Bmc␤Type 'x' is not declared␤at /tmp/Xb7GUs1Bmc:1␤------> 3sub x { Int }; sub f(--> x7⏏5()) { 5 }; say f;␤»
Ven right. 13:34
nine Ulti: that error comes when you run perl6 bootstrap.pl?
Ven ticks off a check in his "Weird Ideas" notepad
nine++: great job on CURLI! I'll take any speed improvements we can get, especially on the loading/compiling part :-).
stmuk I had to github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew/pull/66 to get rakudobrew working but otherwise have had few problems (apart from not being enable to reinstall) 13:35
Ulti nine no when I try to install Linenoise after everything was ok
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Ven m: constant x = Int; sub f(--> x) { 5 }; say f; 13:36
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5␤»
stmuk TimToady: there is a PR to fix PSGI
ZoffixW Note to Weekly writers: it'd be nice to include people's IRC nicknames along with their real names.
Ulti nine rakudobrew build-panda was error free afaik 13:37
Ven nice, nice... but then, how to overload a constant? *g*
ZoffixW I've no idea who most of the mentioned names are, even though all of them are likely in this channel :P
"Stage parse: Killed"... so much for my P6 on production :( 13:40
Full error, if anyone's curious: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/c3985c03df5b01bf28f7 13:41
nine ZoffixW: do you have ulimits on that machine? Stage parse eats > 1.5 GiB of RAM. 13:43
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ZoffixW Oh :( I only have 1GB of RAM 13:44
ZoffixW cries salty tears
nine ZoffixW: then you need swap and loads of time ;)
Skarsnik it should use the swap
stmuk at least 1GB of swap 13:45
ZoffixW "KiB Swap: 262140 total"... seems like using Linode's pre-build, pre-setup Debian was a bad idea :P
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CIAvash cd ~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/panda/ then ./bootstrap.pl fixed the panda problem for me 13:47
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ZoffixW sweet 13:47
vytas CIAvash, tried it didn't work for me. 13:48
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ZoffixW But luckily, it lets you resize your disks if you powerdown. Gonna retry with 3256MB of swap 13:49
Ulti ZoffixW why not use Docker in production? 13:51
ZoffixW No idea what that is :P 13:52
Well, I heard of it, but didn't bother learning what it is
Ulti conceptually think light weight virtual machines that can inherit from each other and have versioning and easy distribution 13:53
but there is an official rakudo one on docker hub so deployment is as tricky as doing docker pull rakudo-star && docker run -it rakudo-star 13:54
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ZoffixW I'll keep that in mind for the future :) 13:57
stmuk I have been experimenting with a "jumbo perl build" docker as well .. intended to be perl5 with Task::Kenso and Perl6 with Inline;:Perl5 and many modules
lizmat commute to Amsterdam.pm meeting&
ZoffixW \o 13:58
13:58 lizmat left
Ven o/ 13:58
ZoffixW "Rakudo has been built and installed." nine++ Thanks. Adding more swap fixed the issue
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arnsholt FROGGS: Any objections to killing the .gist() tests on NativeCall's Pointer type? 13:59
nine ZoffixW: cool! Didn't take all that long after all :)
arnsholt Tight constraints on the exact stringification of a type is almost always wrong...
FROGGS arnsholt: why... ohh?
jnthn rudi_s_: If using "is rw" on the thing you want to use with pointer of pointer doesn't work, there's always the "pass a 1-element array" trick
FROGGS arnsholt: we have similar tests in roast too 14:00
arnsholt Those tests really feel like they're actually testing something else
FROGGS okay, then I'm fine with turning them into something else, rather then to just kill'em
arnsholt I'm not sure what they're testing though =)
rudi_s_ jnthn: Hm. I'm not really convinced. Sounds like quite a hack. 14:01
I guess I'll write this in C ...
Ulti stmuk yeah a bumper perl all batteries included would be good
ZoffixW vytas, maybe because it's building new panda into a different dir? I nuked all and ran bootstrap.pl, but panda is now a not-found command and I see at the end of panda build it tells me to ensure this path is is PATH "/home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/bin"
and new panda is in there. Type `type panda` and see whether it's running for the new built panda and not the old panda 14:02
nine rudi_s_: ironically passing a 1-element array is exactly what you'd do in C
vytas after nuking it all it works, you can find panda binary at ~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/panda/bin/panda
arnsholt FROGGS: Nm. I think I found a better set of tests
FROGGS nine: yes, though the '$pointer is rw' is meant to work, and I think I know why it does not
rudi_s_ nine: No. I'd pass a pointer (to a pointer). 14:03
vytas but making rakudobrew to run boostrap.pl instead of rebootstrap.pl throws errors...
rudi_s_ foo(int **x); foo(&bla) ..
jnthn rudi_s_: They're equivalent in C :)
rudi_s_ Well, yes.
Skarsnik rudi_s_, pointer are just int :) 14:04
rudi_s_ But it's semantically different IMHO.
No.
Ven What's the use for "is raw"? I can't comprehend it from the docs. I mean, what's the purpose when we have is rw and "\" ?
rudi_s_ Anyway, no need to waste time discussing it. Would've been nice if Perl6's FFI supported it.
14:04 aigan left
Skarsnik rudi_s_, write a test case 14:05
vytas and panda list shows 3 modules, can't find Task::Star etc.
FROGGS rudi_s_: I'll ticket it if you have a short example
jnthn Ven: \foo is sugar for "is raw", so you don't need it in that case :)
rudi_s_ Skarsnik: A test case? Sure.
FROGGS rudi_s_++
jnthn Ven: It's more for the places you want those semantics and aren't declaring a parameter
Ven jnthn: hm, that's a bit confusing. Not declaring a parameter? 14:06
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FROGGS rudi_s_: you can also write a test case in this style: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/nom/...nativecall 14:06
Ven m: sub f($x is raw){say $x.perl); my @x; f(@x);
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ZKVDp5jX21␤Missing block␤at /tmp/ZKVDp5jX21:1␤------> 3sub f($x is raw){say $x.perl7⏏5); my @x; f(@x);␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ statement modifier…»
rudi_s_ FROGGS: That was the plan.
Ven m: sub f($x is raw){say $x.perl}; my @x; f(@x);
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«[]␤»
jnthn Ven: sub foo(\x) { } # x is raw automatically using the \ syntax
Ven jnthn: yes, but that's declaring a parameter
ZoffixW Yey solved my issue with panda saying "Could not find Shell::Command:ver<True>:auth<True>:api<True> in:" with these steps: rm -fr ~/.rakudobrew; rm -fr ~/.perl6; git clone github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew ~/.rakudobrew; rakudobrew build moar; rakudobrew build-panda; cd ~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/panda/; ./bootstrap.pl; source ~/.bashrc
jnthn Ven: sub foo(**@x is raw) { } # but here you really need it to be "is raw" 14:07
Ven: sub foo() is raw { } # same on return values
Ven ah, that one makes sense
tadzik ZoffixW: so it looks like the change related to curli basically break existing installations
jnthn As there's not an alternative syntax for those other two
ZoffixW tadzik, considering the existing installations are not precompiled, I'd not be surprised. But... that said, I haven't tried running that ./bootstrap.pl *without* nuking anything :P 14:08
Ven jnthn: I gather. I find it weird that it keeps its sigil, though, but it makes sense in the cases of **@ 14:09
ZoffixW Hm. Text::VimColour now fails its tests :(
The fails are harder to debug now too with hex numbers instead of module names :P gist.github.com/zoffixznet/f93d2658d500198124e6
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Skarsnik it's annoying to get a Unhandled exception: Cannot unbox a type object when you have an error in code that is loaded with a require xD 14:12
stmuk ZoffixW: the tests pass .. it doesn't play well with panda I don't think
ZoffixW: try prove -e 'perl6 -Ilib' t
arnsholt Can anyone else pull from GitHub right now? 14:13
FROGGS Skarsnik: ohh, might that be my patch to require that tries to return a type object (on successful require)?
stmuk ZoffixW: I mean "I think" :)
ZoffixW arnsholt, I managed to clone 30 seconds ago...
Skarsnik hm maybe
FROGGS arnsholt: I can
Skarsnik It's really annoying when working with DBI x)
FROGGS Skarsnik: yeah...
Skarsnik: you can revert my patch locally if you've got time 14:14
arnsholt 'k. Then it's my wifi at work being crap, not GitHuib being crap
Thanks =)
rudi_s_ Skarsnik: FROGGS: pbot.rmdir.de/HH3so1QioVLORumS2C1F3g 14:15
I haven't tested it, but should work and check what I expect (from the discussions today).
ZoffixW stmuk, nope, still fails: github.com/stmuk/p6-Text-VimColour...-160980630
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FROGGS rudi_s_: ahh, it is not 100% correct but I see what you want 14:16
stmuk ZoffixW: I will try rakudobrew nuke etc
FROGGS rudi_s_: I'll work on this this evening 14:17
nine sergot: I may have an idea on the 007 issue.
rudi_s_ FROGGS: Awesome, thank you. Just curious, what is wrong?
FROGGS rudi_s_: we need to "refresh" a variable when we suspect it was changed by C, and I think we do it for e.g. CArrays, but we don't do it for Pointers yes 14:18
yet*
stmuk does anyone have a quick work around for installing the same module more than once?
ZoffixW stmuk, I believe I located the issue
rudi_s_ FROGGS: Thanks. 14:19
FROGGS: I guess function pointers are too complicated to implement?
ZoffixW stmuk, the failing test is looking for '<span class="PreProc">use</span> <span class="Statement">', but the output is actually <span class="PreProc">use</span> <span class="Special">v6</span>
FROGGS stmuk: you could hack Panda::Installer to pass :force to $repo.install
rudi_s_ Having support for a struct with a function pointer would be really nice.
nine jnthn: we currently check if the precomp file or any of its dependencies are older than the source file Repository::FileSystem is expected to load. This check however misses if any of the dependencies' source files changed. We will only discover that on loading the dependency itself.
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stmuk FROGGS: ty 14:20
arnsholt rudi_s_: And you want to assign a Perl function to that struct slot, presumably?
FROGGS rudi_s_: we support callbacks in both directions, so function pointers should be doable, even when they are tricky
rudi_s_ arnsholt: Yes.
Would be awesome.
arnsholt That's pretty much just a question of implementing it, I think. Most of the machinery is there in the guts
jnthn nine: Oh...I'd thought when we said dependencies we were meaning the source files, not just the precomp ones :)
arnsholt FROGGS: We support invoking C function pointers from Perl too? 14:21
FROGGS arnsholt: problem mit be the signature though, Perl 6 level wise
CIAvash ZoffixW: I should've mentioned that I'd reinstalled rakudobrew :|
FROGGS arnsholt: isnt that what a simple native sub does? 14:22
arnsholt No, I mean invoking a pointer that points to a function
nine jnthn: checking the dependencies' source files requires me to map from the precomp-id back to the source file which I don't know yet how to do in Repository::FileSystem
FROGGS arnsholt: no, we dont support it yet
arnsholt Yeah, that's what I thought 14:23
jnthn nine: Ah, I'd somehow thought that was being recorded somewhere as we produced the precomps. 14:24
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ZoffixW stmuk, this PR fixes my issue: github.com/stmuk/p6-Text-VimColour/pull/10 14:24
FROGGS bbl 14:25
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stmuk ZoffixW: I think our vims are outputting slightly different markup and a better test would be a less matchy regexp 14:26
nine jnthn: Repository::Installation maintains the mapping (by using the precomp id for the source files, too)
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jnthn Yeah, we'd need an explicit mapping in this case 14:27
The cheeky way is to write a <precompid>.src file that contains the file name :)
nine jnthn: that was my first idea, too :) 14:28
ZoffixW stmuk, hm. A while back I successfully installed that module. Let me try with the syntax files freshly-squeezed from sauce.
zengargoyle was wondering last night if curli/precomp stuff could eventually lead to creation of standalone executables. 14:31
stmuk ZoffixW: really the module should embedd known syntax files as pinched from the most recent upstream
jnthn zemmihates: The API was designed with eventually supporting that, yes 14:32
*in mind
stmuk ZoffixW: github.com/stmuk/p6-Text-VimColour/issues/4
ZoffixW stmuk, tried with fresh syntax files; vim version 7.4.488. Tests pass only with my patch
zengargoyle cool 14:33
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sergot nine: what is it? :) 14:35
14:35 ely-se left
lucs nine: Re. github.com/teodozjan/pod6-coverage/issues/16, where does he get the 'prove' he mentions? (I don't seem to have one in my installation) 14:36
nine: (If you happen to know)
ZoffixW lucs, "type prove; prove is hashed (/home/zoffix/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.20.2/bin/prove)" 14:37
_nadim I took a few minutes to test callframe as it seemed to work in expected ways in some case. nopaste.linux-dev.org/?870317
there is probably a better frmat and a it should be in the tests but I hope someone is curious enough about this. either I am completely wrong, whcih is most robable, or callframe needs sme polishing 14:38
stmuk hmm the FAQ probably should list Perl 5, Test::More and git as dependencies for effective rakudo use
lucs ZoffixW: Um, how do I use it? (from the command line, the 'prove' found is my P5 one, in the PATH)
nine sergot: we currently check if the precomp file or any of its dependencies are older than the source file Repository::FileSystem is expected to load. This check however misses if any of the dependencies' source files changed. We will only discover that on loading the dependency itself.
lucs ZoffixW: Oh wait, it uses the P5 one?
nine lucs: prove is Perl 5's prove
_nadim timotimo: does nopaste.linux-dev.org/?870317 looks like what you would have expected?
lucs Oh, I see.
nine lucs: perl6 -Ilib should do the same 14:39
ZoffixW lucs, yeah. You just tell it to use the perl6 executable: prove -e 'perl6 -Ilib' -vlr t
sergot nine: ooh, I understand
ZoffixW That's what I use
stmuk leont has a p6 prove doesn't he?
lucs Ah, I see., thanks
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Skarsnik :m say 4.20 == 4.20e0 14:41
m: say 4.20 == 4.20e0
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«True␤»
stmuk ZoffixW: try p6-Text-VimColour now
Skarsnik m: say 4.20 eq 4.20e0 14:42
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«True␤»
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ZoffixW stmuk, All tests successful. 14:43
Skarsnik hm, what is not the same in pastebin.com/chfkDVUD ?
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ZoffixW m: say 1.2.WHAT, 1.2e0.WHAT; 14:45
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«(Rat)(Num)␤»
ZoffixW Skarsnik, ^ IIRC that's the issue. I recall having similar issues with my Color module and "1" not being same as "1.0"
Ven hm, sometimes `qqx` does output buffering, sometimes it doesn't... I don't get it 14:46
Skarsnik should I map float type in DB to Rat so?
moritz Skarsnik: no, to Num 14:47
Skarsnik still does not pass is-deeply, hm 14:48
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Skarsnik I am blind? it's exactly the same: pastebin.com/BZ6PJkh6 14:52
dalek rl6-roast-data: 6f4cbce | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
 14:53
ZoffixW Not blind. doing 'eq' on those two strings says they're exactly same :/ 14:54
dalek c: 06e2b54 | (Steve Mynott)++ | doc/Language/faq.pod:
mention dependencies on Perl 5 etc.
lucasb m: use Test; is 1.0, 1e0 14:55
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
lucasb m: use Test; is-deeply [1.0], [1e0]
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤␤# Failed test at /tmp/34aT1pxDkk line 1␤# expected: $[1e0]␤# got: $[1.0]␤»
ZoffixW :o
stmuk++ # Fixing @*INC fallout
Skarsnik m: use Test; is-deeply [1.0e0], [1.0e0]; 14:56
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
lucasb I don't know if this is the right way to use, however
ZoffixW Managed to install Bailador thanks to your fixes in its deps :)
Ven ShimmerFairy++'s Grammar::Parsefail looks really nice :o)
Skarsnik lucasb, I put the e0 in the code ^^
I don't really get why I get Rat actually
*Num 14:57
Ven m: my rule a { :dba('xx') 'x' }; say 'x' ~~ (my token :: { /<a> });
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter / (must be quoted to match literally)␤at /tmp/9oFc6HwSSY:1␤------> 3a('xx') 'x' }; say 'x' ~~ (my token :: {7⏏5 /<a> });␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter < (must be quoted to match literally…»
Ven m: my rule a { :dba('xx') 'x' }; say 'x' ~~ (my token :: { <a> });
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
TimToady m: say [1.0] ~~ [1e0]
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«True␤»
Ven m: my rule a { 'x' }; say 'x' ~~ (my token :: { <a> });
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«｢x｣␤ a => ｢x｣␤»
Ven ..wut?
Skarsnik m: use Test; is-deeply (amount => [4.95e0, 4.85e0, 2.40e0]), (amount => [4.95e0, 4.85e0, 2.40e0]); 14:58
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
[Coke] .tell Shimmerfairy yes, some dupes are not collapsing yet; the Lue's will be combined at some point. the aliases are from the logs. they won't be in the final result, only the "preferred" name (the one listed first).
yoleaux 07:10Z <ShimmerFairy> [Coke]: looking at gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075c7bb1f5 , there's a spurious Lue line that needn't be there (line 356 of output), and neither the so-called aliases nor the svn-y email for ShimmerFairy should be there either :) 14:59
[Coke]: I'll pass your message to Shimmerfairy.
07:39Z <JimmyZ> [Coke]: for history author of specs : git log -p | grep -v Author | grep -v svn | grep -v @@ | grep -v Message | grep -oP '\S*\s*\S*\s*<.+?[a-z0-9]@[a-z0-9].+?>' | sort | uniq
Skarsnik my rakudo is from the last month x)
ZoffixW nine, we no longer have the ability to look for available modules based on partial name, do we? Like finding all modules whose names begin with 'Module::Plugin::'? The old way was to scan all the dirs in @*INC
nine ZoffixW: not yet, no. I think it will be rather easy to bring it back though. 15:00
ZoffixW k
ZoffixW files an issue on modules.perl6.org/repo/Pluggable
[Coke] .tell JimmyZ - that dies with "usage: grep...." - what are you trying to solve there?
yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to JimmyZ.
geekosaur .tell JimmyZ grep's -P option is only in recentish gnu grep, won't be in non-gnu or some older distributions 15:01
yoleaux geekosaur: I'll pass your message to JimmyZ.
Ven nine: can you explain what github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/13...f641b2beea does? I'm not sure I get the fix :) 15:02
nine Ven: line 132: $_ = %repos{$_} for %CUSTOM_LIB.values; 15:03
Ven nine: ah, I was only misled by the commit comment then :). thanks 15:04
nine Ven: for that to work the path in %CUSTOM_LIB has to be the full inst#/home/whatever instead of just /home/whatever
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jdv79 Util_: i wrote one (well, just copied masak's) - is it worht being in core? its pretty short. 15:05
AlexDaniel Hello! I'm having a problem with my perl6 installation. I am using rakudobrew and the error I'm getting is “Unhandled exception: failed to load library 'dynext/libperl6_ops_moar.so'”. This even happens if I do “perl6 -e 'say "hello world"'”. But I noticed that if I run exactly the same command from “moar-nom” folder then everything is working correctly. Any ideas?
geekosaur: “recentish” is hard to define. I've been using -P for years! :) 15:06
geekosaur: but you are right
lucasb grep -P, --perl-regexp PATTERN is a Perl regular expression
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geekosaur debians can be pretty ancient though 15:06
lucasb for those, like me, who didn't know what -P was for :)
15:06 lestrrat left
jdv79 nine: i think i'm in UTC+1 as well. are you near Berlin? 15:07
AlexDaniel and for those who don't know if that is any useful: grep -Po 'Something: \K\w+' logfile
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AlexDaniel that is, \K works! 15:07
nine jdv79: Linz, Austria
japhb Europe: I am here. Fear my continued presence. Pray I do not stay (much) longer. 15:08
Hi all!
geekosaur -o is also a bit nonportable... (only output the matched part of the line)
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AlexDaniel
.oO( or just keep using both -P and -o so that it gets implemented everywhere… )
 15:09
jdv79 ah
japhb nine: I saw in lizmat++'s weekly that the curli branch is merged. Congrats!
ZoffixW m: say "Perl 6's Bailador is {714.29/1250}% as fast as Perl 5's Mojolicious"
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«Perl 6's Bailador is 0.571432% as fast as Perl 5's Mojolicious␤»
ZoffixW Not bad at all.
nine japhb: thanks :)
japhb ZoffixW: Did you really mean a fraction of a percent? Or did you mean 57%? 15:10
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ZoffixW Oh 15:10
m: say "Perl 6's Bailador is {714.29/1250 * 100}% as fast as Perl 5's Mojolicious"
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«Perl 6's Bailador is 57.1432% as fast as Perl 5's Mojolicious␤»
ZoffixW :)
With a rudimentary "Print hello world" app :)
japhb Fastest way to get a 100x speedup I've ever seen.
ZoffixW ehehe
mspo mojo is pretty big ;)
_sri_ ZoffixW: how did you measure that? 15:11
mspo does your router do reverse?
mst not really
japhb I was wondering when sri would comment on that ... :-)
mst mojo is actually relatively small, due to repeated passes deleting any features that aren't used internally
this has huge advantages for new build code, and noticeable disadvantages for older code that was using those features 15:12
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mst programming: trade-offs all the way down 15:12
japhb s/programming/computer science/
ZoffixW _sri_, no way that gives the results any true meaning. This was mostly my test for "is Bailador even usable" :)
_sri_ ZoffixW: benchmark war!
jdv79 be nice if Cat did taht. it was nice to work with in the beginning. now its a maze to me sometimes.
gtodd if only it was 60%
ZoffixW _sri_, actually, I've even used morbo instead of hypnotoad :P
ZoffixW braces
_sri_ ... 15:13
ZoffixW I forgot lol! :)
Juerd jnthn: $supply.emit seems to still exist. I changed my code to use a supplier and a supply, but then didn't realise I had to move the emit calls to the supplier. Nothing broke, and it took some time to figure this out.
_sri_ don't even know what to say to that
mst jdv79: yeah, the trouble there is there are multi-year-old apps we want to still upgrade
japhb gtodd: Clearly that's an important threshold for production use.
ZoffixW Mostly because I get "Premature connection close" from Bailador
gtodd :-D
mst jdv79: I'm tempted to 'fix' it by producing a Catalyst::UseTheseBits or something ;) 15:14
_sri_ for the record, mojolicious is killing it on most reasonable micro-benchmark we have currently www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#se...n=data-r11
jdv79 isn't that was web::simple was - i only noticed it. never used it.
_sri_ +the
gtodd I just hope if/when Mojo is "ported" to perl6 we get to keep the names hypnotoad mojo etc.
mst sooort of. Web::Simple is basically just enough glue to wrap a much much better dispatcher
AlexDaniel can anybody help with my installation problem? What can I check to find the problem? By the way, the error is happening at <unknown>:1 (/home/alex/git/rakudobrew/moar-nom/perl6.moarvm:<dependencies+deserialize>:81) 15:15
nine jdv79: No Catalyst does already too many backwards incompatible changes! And of course it's Catalyst to blame. We only poked around at internals, misused them and programmed to an exact implementation. There's surely nothing wrong with that...
mst I've not done anything large scale enough with it to have good patterns for catalyst scale apps
jdv79 meh. maybe the p6 version of cat will take the backcompat stance of p6.. 15:16
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mst for the moment, I'm happy enough with Web::Simple for small stuff, Catalyst for large stuff, and Mojo for things where the async integration matters 15:17
but I'm very much using a subset of Catalyst based on a sort of mental style guide
ZoffixW hah 15:18
mst which is the thing I think might be worth writing up
ZoffixW _sri_, well, I'm actually getting worse results with hypnotoad than with morbo :P
japhb _sri_: I'm not deeply familiar with that benchmark suite -- in what way is mojolicious "killing it"? (Certainly it's the top thing with Lng=Prl, but that doesn't seem to put it that high in the overall rankings, so I'm wondering if there's a non-obvious bit of info I need to take into account.)
jdv79 mst: nice
ZoffixW m: say "bailador is {909.09/555.56*100} as fast as hypnotoad" 15:19
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«bailador is 163.634891 as fast as hypnotoad␤»
mst I have some ideas about a sort of meta-framework that I keep circling around; I was planning to build it atop Mojo, but since I'm apparently too evil to be allowed to file bugs on it I'm probably going to end up with Web::Simple + IO::Async instead
_sri_ japhb: it's very very high compared to other scripting language frameworks
ZoffixW m: say "bailador is {555.56/909.09*100} as fast as hypnotoad"
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«bailador is 61.111661 as fast as hypnotoad␤»
_sri_ japhb: the python ones that are higher actually cheat with lots of C code
pretty much just lua can compete with the compiled languages 15:21
japhb _sri_: Oh, you mean, very fast among pure-dynamic-language engines.
jdv79 i'm kinda hoping p6 allows for smaller well composable pieces for stuff like a web server
i think RabidGravy mentioned that idea
ZoffixW _sri_, this is how I benched it: fpaste.scsys.co.uk/502215 mind you, I'm getting "Problem loading URL "localhost:3000": Premature connection close" even though it works in the browser, so I don't know if the requests are getting aborted or something
_sri_ ZoffixW: that is not a valid benchmark at all 15:22
first thing you do is get wrk for measuring 15:23
ZoffixW _sri_, as stated above, I wasn't doing a benchmark, but simply seeing if Bailador was even usable.
And yes, I can see how my initial m: say "" can be misinterpreted, but I hope now I clarified what I was actually doing. 15:24
jnthn Juerd: Looking at the source file, I can't see a method emit in there.
_sri_ ZoffixW: i'm actually very interested in real benchmark comparisons 15:25
to see where perl6 stands right now
jnthn m: my $p = Supplier.new; my $s = $p.Supply; $s.emit(42)
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«Method 'emit' not found for invocant of class 'Supply'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/x7OInj61xv:1␤␤»
jnthn Juerd: Any chance you've a golf of the odd case you ran into?
_sri_ but you need comparable server implementations and a good testing tool like wrk 15:26
ZoffixW _sri_, I think it'll widely depend on what you're doing. I ran a Perl 6's HTML parsing module on a test page and it took 1.66 minutes, but Mojo::DOM parsed it in less than a second.
ZoffixW & # meeting
jdv79 ZoffixW: that's likely XML because grammars are slow
:( 15:27
AlexDaniel uhm, so how can I make my perl6 work again? I am getting “failed to load library 'dynext/libperl6_ops_moar.so'” error
_sri_ ZoffixW: if the parsers are comparable, i guess that might actually be a sensible benchmark
AlexDaniel one option would be to put all my perl6 projects into moar-nom folder… but… 15:28
_sri_ Mojo::DOM does not use a grammar though, which i think might not be as fast even in perl5 15:29
El_Che \o/ for Channels + Promises: spend some cpu by reducing the memory usage drastically when reading/parsing/converting big files
jnthn AlexDaniel: You did "make install" and are running the installed Perl 6?
AlexDaniel jnthn: no, I am using rakudobrew
_sri_ at least from what i've seen (merlyn's json regex comes to mind)
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Skarsnik Damn, i know why is-deeply fail, the Num are num64 ~~ 15:30
AlexDaniel jnthn: last time I rebuilt it was less than a week ago, everything was fine
jnthn: yesterday I thought I'd get the most recent version and it started throwing some errors. So I deleted the rakudobrew folder and tried again, now the error is different but I don't know what to do 15:31
jnthn: as I've mentioned earlier, it works when I run it in rakudobrew/moar-nom/ folder
Juerd jnthn: I'll try if I can reproduce it, probably tomorrow 15:32
jnthn Juerd: Thanks 15:33
Juerd jnthn: There may be other weird thing going on. I mistyped $m.messages as $m.message and that hangs as well. There is no method 'message' in my class. So maybe it has to do with non-existing methods in general.
Skarsnik is there something like is-deeply that just check if type are compatible? 15:34
ZoffixW is $a.WHAT eq $b.WHAT? X) 15:37
I've no idea :P
jnthn What do you mean by "compatible"?
Skarsnik It fail my test because I have num64 and I compare to Num 15:38
*it
mspo anyway I would love to see mojo on perl6
mojo is very good
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Skarsnik m: my num64 $a = 2.0; my Num $b = 2.0; say $a eqv $b; 15:39
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/uiuzcePkIv␤Cannot assign a literal of type Rat (2e0) to a variable of type Num. You can declare the variable to be of type Real, or try to coerce the value with 2e0.Num or Num(2e0), or just write the value as…»
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Skarsnik m: my num64 $a = 2.0e0; my Num $b = 2.0e0; say $a eqv $b; 15:39
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«True␤»
Skarsnik hm
TimToady probably boxes the num64 for eqv 15:40
since both args aren't native
jnthn Yes, it will be 15:41
Heh, TimToady is wearing an '@ on IRC now too :)
RabidGravy Boom! 15:42
Skarsnik I don't get why this test fail them x)
brrt mspo: yes, mojo6 would be awesome :-) 15:43
RabidGravy people keep saying these things, I'd prefer there not to be cult frameworks ported from Perl 5, I want clever people who like Perl 6 to make new things 15:45
[Coke] mspo: yes, I'm planning on diving back into mojo in 2016Q1 15:46
and to RabidGravy's point, I want to do a mojo6, not a mojo5-to-6
japhb _sri_: Clicking around that TechEmpower benchmark suite a bit, I'm curious: Did you find out why mojolicious had a non-zero error rate on several tests?
mspo yeah not a translation but the feature set and ease-of-use aspects hit a very sweet spot in mojo 15:49
Skarsnik I don't get why that fail ~~ pastebin.com/Ch17J7G8
[Coke] sighs again tha pastebin is blocked here. 15:50
mspo 6paste.io must be made 15:51
RabidGravy I'm actually not in favour of monolithic frameworks at all, but lots and lots of bits that can be used to make good software 15:53
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mspo go-lang style router + middleware frameworks are cool too 15:54
Skarsnik I don't know, it's hard to test if all these differents bits will work together well
RabidGravy It's not make Perl 6 a scripting language for the "approved frameworks" that the Modern Perl people made "Perl 5"
mspo not sure what that means :) 15:56
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_sri_ japhb: nope 15:58
jdv79 i think i agree RabidGravy. if its possible/practical. 16:00
feels like a pipe dream though
[Coke] my goal with something like mojo6 is to be able to use it at work. That's pretty much it.
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[Coke] biggest thing I'm going to need is Oracle DB support, which I agree should be a separate thing. :) 16:01
ZoffixW I think it'll happen when there'll be a ton of useless and broken bits and pieces like in P5 and people will get fed up and make a list of approved frameworks :P 16:02
jdv79 [Coke]: I::P5 and DBI! :)
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_sri_ RabidGravy: you do realize that web frameworks these days are like 90% the same no matter what language you use? 16:04
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RabidGravy yes 16:05
ely-se web frameworks these days are 90% quickstart guides and 10% other forms of cargo-culting
gtodd speaking of trying/learning 2 things at once :-D does the ecosystem have any IoT orieinted modules ? I'm not sure what the latest/greatest "protocol" is in the IoT space only really looked at mosquito/MQTT ... does AMPQ fall into that category?
gtodd does not know really know why IoT is "a thing" 16:06
_sri_ hearing this stuff is really disheartening, mojolicious actually started as a thought experiment for how i would have built a new perl6 framework back in 2011
it was designed for perl6 back then 16:07
ely-se gtodd: Internet of Things? twitter.com/internetofshit
mspo who can fix broken links on doc.perl6.org? 16:08
gtodd _sri_: I wouldn not count mojo among cargo-culting frameworks ...
ugexe in my experience the best small, composable pieces are born from a monolith
gtodd ely-se: hah hah
RabidGravy very probably 16:09
jdv79 i would look at using a mojo6 if it was somewhat uncomplicated/bloaty seeming
mrf_ gtodd: why not. It does much the same as every other major web framework. Including all the same mistakes
jdv79 *unbloaty - is that a word?
gtodd mrf_: uhh ... barfing dynosaur
Skarsnik a good framework has good documentation x)
_sri_ not that mojo6 is likely to happen, my motivation to invest in perl6 is at an all time low i'm afraid 16:10
RabidGravy er AMQP is a message queuing protocol not a web framework
oh well
ely-se just write AMQP on Rails 16:11
mspo I had a big MQ-using website at a previous job
it was a disaster ;)
_sri_ especially the anti perl5 culture around here is a huge turnoff for me
ely-se I use ZeroMQ a lot. 16:12
mspo this was JEE + ActiveMQ
jdv79 oh, its safe to ignore them:) most of us are very pro-p5!
mspo mostly to queue up db transactions for page rendering (bad idea)
switching to 0MQ for things like solr queries would probably be really smart
RabidGravy I'm mostly anti-bullshit
gtodd mspo: I think MQTT is all I really want ... something sub/pub that easier to set up than XMPP
mrf_ RabidGravy++
mspo gtodd: there's a mojo for that, actually ;) 16:13
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Skarsnik m: my @t; @t.push:1..10; say @t; 16:13
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/1s1hwgV2ZC␤Confused␤at /tmp/1s1hwgV2ZC:1␤------> 3my @t; @t.push:7⏏051..10; say @t;␤ expecting any of:␤ colon pair␤»
gtodd _sri_: /me not anti perl5! :-)
mspo gtodd: but rabbitmq is genuinely high quality software, fwiw
brrt on the topic of the (rather nice) perl6-is-fun article
Skarsnik m: my @t; @t.push:(1..10); say @t;
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/b9KqQP1C0M␤Malformed parameter␤at /tmp/b9KqQP1C0M:1␤------> 3my @t; @t.push:(17⏏5..10); say @t;␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤ formal parameter␤»
brrt i noticed a lot of people trying to compare the perl5/perl6 with python2/python3
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mrf_ Mostly I just want a web toolkit that actually allows me to write HTTP spec compatible services without having to hack all wround the house 16:13
RabidGravy I used AMQP heavily with Perl in my last job, fabulous fun
_sri_ jdv79: i think it's a problem that will increase with early adopters trying out perl6 in the next few months 16:14
RabidGravy I'm sure it was the same when Perl 5 came out
_sri_ you'll get more folks that have never used perl5 or not been using it for many years, and that are used to hating on perl5 16:15
Skarsnik I can't write perl5 after writing perl6 code x)
_sri_ language war is coming :p
RabidGravy I think more people should write Perl 4
gtodd _sri_: will p5 haters try p6 ? I mean perl6 has .... sigils and twigils! 16:16
lucasb yay, php-7.0.0 has been tagged in its repo! \o/
oops, wrong channel
_sri_ RabidGravy: so, you're equating the perl4/perl5 relationship to the perl5/perl6 relationship?
RabidGravy: that is bullshit!
RabidGravy no you are
gtodd personally I hope for quadrigils 16:17
_sri_ perl5 is a healthy language that will co-exist with perl6
[Coke] m: if 3 { 4 } elseif 5 { 6};
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/g38BXuLW51␤In Perl 6, please use "elsif' instead of "else if"␤at /tmp/g38BXuLW51:1␤------> 3if 3 { 4 } elseif7⏏5 5 { 6};␤»
AlexDaniel elsif?
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[Coke] ^^ LTA error. 16:17
mspo I never met anyone who used perl(5) for anything who genuinely didn't like it
RabidGravy yes, I can forsee making Perl 5 code for a very long time, I've been doing it for twenty years
mspo just a lot of people who never used it 16:18
one fun thing I've noticed on rosettacode is that perl6 solutions seem to be the shortest :)
AlexDaniel ah, the error message said it
[Coke]: and why is it LTA?
gtodd mspo: good point (about the non users)
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[Coke] AlexDaniel: because it says "instead of" something I didn't use. 16:18
I said "elseif" not "else if"
AlexDaniel well… 16:19
gtodd if we get perl6 for Christmas I wonder if stevans p5-mop will arrive in time for boxing day ...
Ulti _sri_ anti perl5 culture? :'( perhaps some very specific overly outspoken individuals around here
mspo perl has always been great for getting your damned work done
AlexDaniel
.oO( why can't we allow both? )
flussence
.oO( I wish the anti-perl6 culture was one percent as nice as the anti-perl5 "we have" )
mspo less great for wanking, maybe ;)
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Ulti _sri_ would you be against someone attempting to port some of mojo? 16:19
_sri_ Ulti: not at all, just use a different name 16:20
Ulti k k
geekosaur regularly encounters anti-perl5 who demonstrate where anti-perl6 came from
Ulti hodor.pm6 sounds like a likely web framework
geekosaur in fact they just pile on perl6 without even looking, because anything even remotely perl is unforgivable evil to them
Ulti it will only echo
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[Coke] _sri_: I thought you were on board with a perl 6 mojo. 16:21
abraxxa Mojo should be way easier to implement with Perl 6's great async features in core
_sri_ [Coke]: it's currently not a project goal
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Ulti tempted to see how good/bad mojo is through Inline::Perl5 not sure anyone has taken a look yet 16:22
if its not too bad I'd rather just use Mojolicious as it stands 16:23
Ven Ulti: didn't nine++ make a lightning talk about that? I'm not sure it was Mojo.
flussence lucasb: it'll be years before it's generally usable, because a lot of their C extensions are still on 5.4/5.5 :)
_sri_ [Coke]: it was a project goal like twice in the last few years though, but then the perl6 got delayed again and again... and folks kinda lost interest 16:24
now it's hard to justify a perl6 port when we could be working on http/2 support 16:25
gtodd _sri_: that would be a great new feature
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_sri_ *+release 16:27
gtodd _sri_: I'm guessing the way Mojo is written and the fact works so well just inspires people to want to "port" it or write a similar framework for Perl6
Ulti Ven he might have showed its possible, but I mean performance wise if it works relatively well 16:29
Ven ah, well, I don't know how costly crossing the bridge is :)
dj_goku timotimo: hey I saw you commited the SEQ change, but did you see my test change (roundtrip)? 16:30
[Coke] _sri_: I certainly wasn't expecting the mojo 5 team to work on it. 16:31
but if you don't want a mojo 6, I'm happy to not use that name. 16:32
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_sri_ [Coke]: ah, i figured you mean official because you said i was "committed to it" 16:32
brrt i'd think that it'd be fair if the mojo people had a say in that
[Coke] I didn't say committed.
I said "on board" 16:33
flussence IMO Mojo isn't just "a thing you can port". 80% of it exists in the polish and glue and little details. It'd be kind of like... backporting smartmatch.
RabidGravy to get back to normal, if I had a WhateverCode in hand how would one work with it
_sri_ [Coke]: anyway, yea, i prefer a different name for unofficial ports
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brrt good point flussence 16:33
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jnthn TimToady: So, I went through what needs to change in Rakudo and roast to make the finite (well, really non-lazy) ranges not auto-truncate. Here's the patches: gist.github.com/jnthn/ad7aff3a06679fe2ed9b 16:34
_sri_ flussence: indeed
brrt and at any rate, perl6 has it's whole own story wrt to {async,paralellism,concurrency}
dj_goku does .tell notify only NICK or does it notify NICK_?
flussence dj_goku: the first oen
s/en/ne/ 16:35
dj_goku ok thanks
brrt and..... a framework with mojo's aims for perl6 would consequently look very different
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dj_goku .tell FROGGS did the unicode loading issue with testers.p6.org for raw json get fixed? 16:35
yoleaux dj_goku: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
_sri_ flussence: when i say port i always mean something like an 80% port with 20% new perl6 idioms to make things elegant
i would very very heavily use promises and supplies for example 16:36
jnthn TimToady: If it looks OK to you, I can commit/push
_sri_ the native event loop in perl6 will already replace like a third of mojolicious 16:38
JimmyZ .tell [Coke] gist.github.com/zhuomingliang/c6c5...747e1c7101 16:39
yoleaux JimmyZ: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
15:00Z <[Coke]> JimmyZ: - that dies with "usage: grep...." - what are you trying to solve there?
15:01Z <geekosaur> JimmyZ: grep's -P option is only in recentish gnu grep, won't be in non-gnu or some older distributions
ZoffixW mspo, RE: "<mspo> who can fix broken links on doc.perl6.org?" not seen a response, but I could. Though note that some are known issues: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/155
mspo, what is it?
[Coke] JimmyZ: ok. I still ahve no idea what you're trying to fix. 16:40
yoleaux 16:39Z <JimmyZ> [Coke]: gist.github.com/zhuomingliang/c6c5...747e1c7101
[Coke] I see lots of +/- in that diff output that seem to be changing nothing.
dalek kudo/nom: cdc3fb0 | arnsholt++ | lib/NativeCall/Types.pm:
Adapt code from native_array.pm to CArray ^parameterize.

This removes the need for monkey typing, since the typed array roles no longer have to inherit from CArray.
kudo/nom: 518b46f | arnsholt++ | / (2 files):
Update NativeCall::Types::Pointer definition to not need MONKEY_TYPING.

Also cleans up some tests to not rely on exact stringifications.
JimmyZ [Coke]: that's some author removed in specs
but not in git 16:41
[Coke] ah! thank you.
do me a favor do a git log --all to catch branches.
mspo ZoffixW: the link to // here: doc.perl6.org/routine.html
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[Coke] We can make sure that everyone on that list appears in the list, and if not, we can add them to a CREDITS file somewhere. 16:42
mspo also there was a link to 'doc.perl6.org/language/$_' which didn't work but I forget where I clicked it 16:43
[Coke] JimmyZ: ":auth" appears to always be a false positive.
ZoffixW mspo, thanks, I've added those to the Issue #155 as well.
[Coke] (as does devnull)
JimmyZ [Coke]: git log --all -p is the same result
ugexe [Coke]: im sure you have more people to add, but i didn't see tony-o in the credits although i know he has a pr or two merged
[Coke] JimmyZ++ thanks.
ugexe: what repo? 16:44
ugexe rakudo
[Coke] ugexe: gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075...s-out-L627
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[Coke] you're probably looking at the old WIP in the release announcement, my bad. 16:44
ugexe [Coke]: oh thanks
ZoffixW That contrib list will need some manual weeding out methinks :P 16:46
ZoffixW sees their own name duplicated and a contributor named "root"
dj_goku .tell timotimo hey I saw you commited the SEQ change, but did you see my test change (roundtrip)?
yoleaux dj_goku: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
ZoffixW Though maybe that's an actual user *shrug*
[Coke] ZoffixW: it's technically not duplicated. 16:48
ZoffixW: it is a work in progress.
ZoffixW lols at purl <purl@localhost>
JimmyZ purl is a old robot
ZoffixW I say we live it in and declare Perl 6 to be the first language whose development was helped by an AI :P
I think purl is dead. 'been ages since I've seen her. 16:49
s/live/leave/;
[Coke], sure, that's understandable... I was just making observations :)\
abraxxa ZoffixW: that would be 'm' then 16:50
16:50 iH2O joined
abraxxa you can definitely say that it has helped development! 16:50
ZoffixW abraxxa, "m"?
abraxxa evalbot
ZoffixW Ah :)
abraxxa m: say 'Hello ZoffixW!' 16:51
camelia rakudo-moar f94c31: OUTPUT«Hello ZoffixW!␤»
ZoffixW But "m" is just a tool.. purl.. purl had a soul :P
RabidGravy m: multi sub foo(Whatever $) { say "whatever" }; multi sub foo("*") { nextwith(*) }; foo("*"); # I thought this should work
camelia ( no output )
RabidGravy m: multi sub foo(Whatever $) { say "whatever" }; multi sub foo("*") {foo(*) }; foo("*"); # whereas this does actually work 16:52
camelia rakudo-moar 518b46: OUTPUT«whatever␤»
nadim Too few positional arguments! Can someone explain to me why the first works and the second not? nopaste.linux-dev.org/?870346
16:52 MadcapJake joined
nadim it does work with two, three, ... elements but not one 16:53
TimToady jnthn: looks good to me
ZoffixW nadim, $entries doesn't have enough elements to satisfy the -> ... stuff, would be my guess
Oh, never mind. I misread
nadim that would also have been my guess but there are enough elements 16:54
ZoffixW m: my $entries = ( (0 , 0), (1, 1) ) ; say $entries; $entries = ( (0,0 ) ); say $entries
camelia rakudo-moar 518b46: OUTPUT«((0 0) (1 1))␤(0 0)␤»
ZoffixW m: my $entries = ( (0 , 0), (1, 1) ) ; say $entries[0]; $entries = ( (0,0 ) ); say $entries[0] 16:55
camelia rakudo-moar 518b46: OUTPUT«(0 0)␤0␤»
ZoffixW Looks like the ((0,0)) version gets "unfolded" or whatever the terminology is
16:55 n0tjack joined
lucasb m: my $e = ((0,0),); say $e # for nadim 16:56
camelia rakudo-moar 518b46: OUTPUT«((0 0))␤»
lucasb I think it needs the trailing comma
ZoffixW lucasb++
nadim the error says 2 arguments expected but got 0. like if it wasn't there at all
ZoffixW m: my $entries = ( (0 , 0), ) ; for $entries Z 0 .. * -> (($h, $v), $i) { say "$h $v $i" ; }
camelia rakudo-moar 518b46: OUTPUT«0 0 0␤»
nadim lucasb: the trailing comma does fix the problem, I tried that
but that sucks 16:57
16:57 donaldh left 16:58 iH2O left 16:59 abraxxa left
RabidGravy I've got used to the trailing comma 16:59
nadim At least, I would have like to read "if you forget the (you thought optional) comma, your data will be squirelled away. an URL about that would be welcome, there may be other very susprising things to learn 17:00
17:00 n0tjack left
nadim RabidGravy: I'll get used but i have spend some time guessing it. That on top of non flattening, < ( and [ working not the "natural" P5 made a not so exciting afternoon. 17:01
ugexe m: use Test; plan 2; skip-rest; subtest { ok 1; }, "xxx"; ok 1;
camelia rakudo-moar 518b46: OUTPUT«1..2␤ok 1 - # SKIP <unknown>␤ok 2 - # SKIP <unknown>␤ ok 1 - ␤ 1..1␤ok 3 - xxx␤ok 4 - ␤# Looks like you planned 2 tests, but ran 4␤»
ZoffixW nadim, well, P5 is a different language :) 17:02
dalek kudo/nom: 88a8a00 | jnthn++ | src/core/ (4 files):
Make @a[^2] consistent with @a[0,1].

That is, it doesn't auto-truncate. Only lazy ranges will now truncate. An infinite range is automatically lazy; the existing behavior is now available as @a[lazy ^2].
ZoffixW nadim, I'm yet to tell JavaScript folks to support trailing commas without errors :P
dalek ast: dce936b | jnthn++ | / (8 files):
Change range indexing semantic tweaks.
 17:03
nadim ZoffixW: another language or not, not having a comma at the end of a list with one element making fail when extracting from it is pretty unnatural and unintuitive. the opposite of what any language should be 17:05
flussence sometimes you run out of pegs to hang things on... 17:07
ZoffixW nadim, I'd be interested to know why it behaves like that first. There's likely a good reason why unboxing the way it did makes more sense than not unboxing.
jnthn Lists are formed by commas, not parentheses.
ZoffixW Aha! jnthn++
dalek ast: e28702a | jnthn++ | S03-operators/assign.t:
Test for RT #124316.
 17:08
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=124316
lucasb maybe someone can put this trailing comma thing in the language/traps document
ZoffixW I was about to suggest that
flussence fwiw, the purpose of perl6's trailing comma strikes me as slightly less insane than perl5's {;…} or rust's {…;} 17:09
jnthn We've been through most combinations of list/array stuff you can imagine, and probably a few you can't, in Perl 6 history :)
ZoffixW nadim, will you be willing to submit a PR to docs.perl6.org/language/traps to github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/d.../traps.pod ?
ZoffixW never had to do the {;...} in P5 in a decade
flussence I've used it... once, I think 17:10
17:10 _nadim joined
flussence something gnarly in a map block iirc 17:10
ZoffixW +{ ... } on the other hand -_-
and +( )
17:11 telex left 17:12 telex joined, moises joined, Su-Shee joined 17:13 espadrine left
Su-Shee hi folks, that shortly before christmas release you should maybe add this year's advent calendar on perl6.org :) 17:13
ZoffixW We probably should
:)
ZoffixW clicks the "self-assign" button 17:14
17:14 nadim left
masak ++ZoffixW 17:14
17:15 rurban left
Su-Shee I made a factoid in "the other channel" with perl6intro and this channel as destination? or are you planning to create a user's channel? 17:16
ZoffixW I recall TimToady suggesting we split up into multiple channels, but I'd suggest keeping #perl6 as the user's channel, because it's advertised as "the Perl 6 channel" in a ton of places. 17:17
jnthn Su-Shee: Since this is the place most people will come first (and will guess to come first), this should be the users channel :) 17:18
17:18 isolation75 joined
dj_goku is a user and is here. 17:18
Su-Shee I agree. also, it'll be very difficult to change later.
jnthn Those darn compiler hackers should go make a channel to talk aobut their weird stuff. :)
Su-Shee jnthn: totally!1! ;)
ok, we are prepared for the masses flocking on 24th ;) 17:19
Ulti nine yeah so it is bootstrap.pl in panda sorry
17:20 isolation75 left
Ulti if the masses find IRC at all I'd be surprised 17:20
though I guess perl people are a special kind of people 17:21
Su-Shee usally bigger publicity about perl6 finds us in #perl.
RabidGravy oh enough of them will to make it quite busy here
I think I'll be out of here at around that point
flussence the worst people seem to stick to highly visible areas like reddit, though it does leak sometimes 17:23
RabidGravy never use reddit
Su-Shee well the n00bs have to be hugged somewhere...
RabidGravy someone else can do that though eh :) 17:24
Su-Shee anyhow. we're ready to send them over and point them to perl6intro for docs.
ugexe anything to avoid Matts Script Archive 2.0 17:26
Su-Shee ha. unavoidable. that WILL happen :) 17:27
also, matt's script archive 6. ;)
17:29 kaare_ left
lucasb what should the other channel be? #p6p, #perl6porters, #perl6gang, etc. 17:29
flussence #rakudo? 17:30
17:30 rindolf joined
jnthn #perl6guts is one option 17:30
Su-Shee #perl6-devel? perl6-guts? I think that's common with other channels.. 17:31
jnthn Or with the hyphen :)
ilmari #p6p?
flussence
.oO( #perl6-guts, #perl6-entrails, #perl6-digestive-system... )
ilmari #perl6-bowels
Su-Shee perl6-plummers :) 17:32
plumbers?
stmuk #perl6-sausage-factory
jnthn leaves folks with their bikeshed and goes for dinner :)
Su-Shee plumbers.
jnthn
.oO( by the time I get back it'll be #perl6-dugongs or something )
 17:33
Su-Shee perl6-meat-district.
masak #perl6-chthulu
ilmari #perl6-fthagn
#perl6-bikeshed 17:34
stmuk #perl6-31337 17:35
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: f69ac9e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | source/ (3 files):
List P6 Advent Calendar on home page (Su-Shee++)
href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: f47fea6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | source/camelia-advent.png:
Add file missed in the last commit
 17:36
ZoffixW This is what the above commit looks like, for the curious: i.imgur.com/TthJqGX.png
masak ZoffixW++
17:37 zakharyas left
Su-Shee one question: I'm looking through the docs - is there any nice tutorial how to create bindings to perl6? and, how to use it with the jvm and incorporate existing java classes "like in clojure"? 17:38
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 1580c87 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | source/index.html:
2+3+6 is 11, not 12 :) (Fix too-short column grid)
 17:39
stmuk front-end-devs++ # mad math skillz 17:40
ZoffixW :) 17:41
masak act.yapc.eu/lpw2015/talk/6436 -- heh
p6weekly post lists that one as not being about Perl 6
but the tags would suggest it is
stmuk knows nothing about the tags :) 17:42
masak the tags on that description page.
17:42 dakkar left
masak given that it's Zefram, I would go listen to that talk :> but I'm not going to LPW :/ 17:42
ZoffixW grins at "whining" tag
dalek Iish: a3c20f7 | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | lib/DBDish/SQLite/Native.pm6:
Fix the last native binding Int-> int32e in SQLite
 17:46
17:48 kaare_ joined
_nadim is there a better way to write: my Dog $d; $d.can(jump) ?? $d.jump !! jump_via_sub($d) 17:48
17:48 kjs_ joined 17:49 JimmyZ_ joined
ugexe $d.?jump // jump_via_sub($d) 17:49
thats one different way anyway 17:50
17:50 skids left
JimmyZ_ .tell [Coke] : I forgot, some commit message with '++', didn't be showed. 17:50
yoleaux JimmyZ_: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
17:52 [TuxCM] joined, lucasb left 17:55 ZoffixW left
JimmyZ_ .tell [Coke] And should RT reporter be listed, for those who help testing. 17:55
yoleaux JimmyZ_: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
17:56 JimmyZ_ left 18:06 moises left 18:12 uruwi_ left 18:16 xfix joined
Juerd Hoi |Tux| 18:18
18:18 edehont joined
[Coke] m: say "Hi there".fc; 18:18
yoleaux 17:50Z <JimmyZ_> [Coke]: : I forgot, some commit message with '++', didn't be showed.
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«hi there␤»
yoleaux 17:55Z <JimmyZ_> [Coke]: And should RT reporter be listed, for those who help testing.
[Coke] (perl6-bikeshed) abbreviates nicely to perl6-bs 18:19
diakopter giggle
[Coke] JimmyZ: anonymous RT submitters don't usually have a name, do they? 18:20
even if they do all have names... -1 from me on adding them.
18:23 CIAvash left
[Coke] Anyone have a perl6 sub for the mark version of .fc ? 18:24
so I could have äb, Ab, and áN all canonicalize to the same thing? 18:25
dammit. that last one should have a B not an N. ;)
ab5tract .hug moritz 18:28
i hope my comments on the DBIish PR don't come off as too offensive 18:29
flussence is there any possibility of the one feature of the core reading module paths from META6.json coming back post-curli? it was kinda nice to have a free metadata sanity check when running tests... 18:30
Skarsnik there is a Test::Meta 18:32
18:32 AlexDaniel joined
ab5tract DBIish is a crucial module in the ecosystem and i think it deserves a lot of respect. i just have a feeling that there's a more "fully P6" db library hiding in the shadows further down the cave. 18:32
Skarsnik But it's probably not what you mean x=
jnthn [Coke]: Can't you do that with samemark (admittedly, not very succinctly)? 18:33
18:33 kjs_ left 18:34 kjs_ joined 18:38 FROGGS joined, kjs_ left 18:39 vendethiel joined
FROGGS o/ 18:39
yoleaux 16:35Z <dj_goku> FROGGS: did the unicode loading issue with testers.p6.org for raw json get fixed?
jnthn o/ FROGGS
FROGGS .tell dj_goku not that I'm aware of, last thing I found out is that rakudo's to_json implementation does it right while JSON::Fast's implementation doesnt 18:40
yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to dj_goku.
FROGGS hi jnthn
18:42 domidumont joined
dj_goku hi FROGGS! 18:42
yoleaux 18:40Z <FROGGS> dj_goku: not that I'm aware of, last thing I found out is that rakudo's to_json implementation does it right while JSON::Fast's implementation doesnt
dj_goku FROGGS: interesting. 18:43
FROGGS dj_goku: I have no idea where that BELL byte comes from though 18:44
so, the best approach might be to fix JSON::Fast
dj_goku FROGGS: but I thought it was using a dancer app and not p6?
or is there a JSON::Fast for p5? 18:45
FROGGS dj_goku: but panda creates the json blob and transfers it, and this blob is to blame
colomon Could not find Panda:ver<True>:auth<True>:api<True> in: 18:46
/home/colomon/.perl6/2015.11-311-gf94c31e
/home/colomon/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site
:\
diakopter [OT] anyone message me if you know anything about the Qlik Sense product
[TuxCM] If I remove the dep to Pod::Coverage from LibraryMake and install that from the git checkout (PASS)
18:47 Actualeyes1 left
[TuxCM] the Inline::Perl5 still FAILs: 18:47
==> Testing Inline::Perl5
===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /pro/3gl/CPAN/rakudobrew/Inline-Perl5-git/.panda-work/1448995538_1/lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6
Undeclared name:
EnumMap used at line 836
[Coke] jnthn: ENODOC on samemark. pointer? 18:48
(I'm having to avoid m:i:m// because it's slow, and because i and m together with $vars explodes)
dj_goku FROGGS: ahh, is there anyway I can help? Is all the code available? 18:49
[Coke] finds a bunch of samemark NYI in the spec tests. 18:50
m: &samemark.WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/OKXp84LPIW␤Undeclared routine:␤ samemark used at line 1. Did you mean 'samecase'?␤␤»
flussence grumbles at github *still* requiring me to compile openssh client with RSA support...
18:51 Su-Shee_ joined
FROGGS dj_goku: it is here: github.com/timo/json_fast 18:51
18:51 ZoffixW joined, Su-Shee left
ZoffixW colomon, that's due to recent major packaging change. Panda will now precompile stuff. I solved it like this, but I suggest you try this fix first without nuking rakudobrew/perl dirs: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-01#i_11634091 18:52
18:52 muraiki left, zakharyas joined
colomon ZoffixW: I don’t mind starting by nuking my current build of moar under rakudobrew 18:53
nuking the entire thing seems somewhat extreme
ZoffixW It really might be as simple as running that bootstrap.pl script
NUKE EVERYTHING!
sorry... that just slipped out...
FROGGS m: say to-json "\x07\b" # this might be a nice test case... I bet JSON::Fast outputs both differently 18:54
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«"\u0007\b"␤»
18:54 lostinfog joined
FROGGS dj_goku: ^^ 18:55
colomon ZoffixW: “I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.” 18:56
18:56 edehont left
ZoffixW tries to remember the reference and fails 18:57
geekosaur one of the "alien" movies
ZoffixW Ah knowyourmeme.com/memes/nuke-it-from-orbit
dj_goku FROGGS: I get this: > to-json("\x07\b") 18:58
"
I don't get that that means.
18:58 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
ZoffixW I get "\u0007\b" on my perl6, built fresh today 18:58
dj_goku sorry that is JSON::Fast to-json 18:59
FROGGS dj_goku: it means that these special chars dont get converted to valid json
dj_goku ahh
welp, that isn't good.
[Coke] m: my $a=${:email($["unknown"]), :name($["Zoffix Znet", "zoffix"])}; say $a.perl; for $a<name> -> $name { say $name} 19:01
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«${:email($["unknown"]), :name($["Zoffix Znet", "zoffix"])}␤[Zoffix Znet zoffix]␤»
[Coke] what dumb thing am I doing here that makes that one line of output, not two?
arnsholt FROGGS: See my latest commit to Rakudo for the tweaked Pointer tests. Look good to you?
FROGGS arnsholt: aye :o) 19:02
arnsholt Excellent
geekosaur [Coke], doesn't the $[] make it a single item as far as the for is concerned? 19:03
arnsholt Another thing that struck me is that with the current implementation, there are two ways to represent a NULL pointer: the Pointer type object itself, and Pointer.new(0)
We should probably fix that
dj_goku how can I find out which method I am using, as in what is it tied to.
flussence m: my $a=${:email($["unknown"]), :name($["Zoffix Znet", "zoffix"])}; say $a.perl; for $a<name>.flat -> $name { say $name}
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«${:email($["unknown"]), :name($["Zoffix Znet", "zoffix"])}␤Zoffix Znet␤zoffix␤»
19:03 lizmat joined
arnsholt And of course Pointer[int32] is a different NULL pointer from Pointer[int64], but that's arguably a feature rather than a bug =) 19:03
rindolf FROGGS: hi, sup? 19:04
dj_goku if I import JSON::Tiny which exports to-json, how do I know I am using JSON::Tiny vs built-in
[Coke] got that from - my $a; $a<name>.push("thing"); $a<name>.push("thing2") , wasn't expecting to have to flatten. ah well.
flussence++ geekosaur++
colomon hmmm, even after blowing moar-nom away and starting from scratch, I still get that message. 19:05
FROGGS m: say &to-json === CORE::<&to-json> # dj_goku: try that
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«True␤»
dj_goku FROGGS: ahh thanks. 19:07
flussence m: say %*CUSTOM_LIB 19:08
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable %*CUSTOM_LIB not found␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Tc0xJT9_Nj:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Tc0xJT9_Nj:1␤␤»
flussence m: say $*REPO; say %*CUSTOM_LIB # weird
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.11-314-g88a8a00␤home => inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.11-314-g88a8a00, perl => inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6, site => inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site, vendor => inst#/home/camelia/rakud…»
19:11 spider-mario joined
ZoffixW erm 19:14
19:16 uruwi joined
MadcapJake I haven't gotten an email yet about gaining access to the Perl 6 advent blog. 19:16
ZoffixW MadcapJake, did you register a wordpress account?
japhb flussence: Isn't $*REPO a linked list? ISTR seeing that deep in the commit messages
diakopter (and did you ask moritz for an invite) 19:17
japhb m: say DUMP($*REPO)
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«Method 'id' must be implemented by CompUnit::Repository because it is required by a role␤ in any compose_method_table at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2680␤ in any apply at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2690␤ in any compose at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2826…»
19:17 skids joined
MadcapJake I messaged moritz my email, I already have a WP account 19:17
japhb m: dd $*REPO
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«CompUnit::Repository::Installation $var = CompUnit::Repository::Installation.new('/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.11-314-g88a8a00')␤»
japhb dd $*REPO.^methods
m: dd $*REPO.^methods
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«Method 'iterator' must be implemented by Iterable because it is required by a role␤ in any compose_method_table at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2680␤ in any apply at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2690␤ in any compose at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2826␤ in…»
japhb Sometime since GLR our debugging tools got less effectual. 19:18
ZoffixW MadcapJake, are you able to go to this page and edit it? perl6advent.wordpress.com/
japhb m: dd $*REPO.^methods>>.name 19:19
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«List $var = $("BUILD", "writeable-path", "can-install", "install", "files", "need", "load", "id", "short-id", "loaded", "precomp-repository", "path-spec", "repo-chain", "new", "installed", "Str", "gist", "perl", "WHICH", "<anon>", "<anon>")␤»
MadcapJake The blog selection on the left side of the post page does not have perl6advent listed
ZoffixW MadcapJake, what's your username?
MadcapJake wennefer 19:20
19:20 ggoebel7 left, nadim joined
ZoffixW MadcapJake, "Invitation(s) sent." 19:20
MadcapJake ZoffixW: thanks! 19:21
19:21 ggoebel7 joined
japhb m: my $repo = $*REPO; repeat { say $repo; $repo .= repo-chain; } while $repo; 19:21
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.11-314-g88a8a00␤(inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.11-314-g88a8a00 inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6)␤Met…»
japhb flussence: ^^
19:22 _nadim left
japhb Actually, I guess you can just do: 19:22
m: msay $*REPO.repo-chain; 19:23
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/t2dgpzwQni␤Undeclared routine:␤ msay used at line 1. Did you mean 'say'?␤␤»
japhb m: say $*REPO.repo-chain;
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«(inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.11-314-g88a8a00 inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6)␤»
japhb Yeah, that does it.
19:24 [TuxCM] left
flussence the thing I'm trying to figure out now is... which of those are going to have a populated */bin/? Yesterday it was .[0], right now it's .[1]. 19:25
moritz flussence: panda tries to install into site if it's writable, and into home otherwise 19:26
stmuk why does panda run itself as odd hashes under site/resources? 19:27
19:30 cdg left
flussence stmuk: precomp 19:31
it looks like the `panda` command itself is generated by something else now 19:32
japhb Has the fallout from the curli merge mostly finished now? Or is there still active fixing going on?
stmuk AFAIK it mostly works with a few oddities - some of which may be features :) 19:33
flussence some things still glow in the dark, but it seems usable enough to write code again
AlexDaniel … if only I could get my perl6 to work… 19:34
19:34 uruwi left
diakopter stmuk: did you hear from tadzik on your rakudobrew PR? 19:34
ZoffixW japhb, in my experience there are PRs for fixes, but they're yet unmerged.
stmuk diakopter: nope
AlexDaniel aaahh
well, perhaps my problem is associated with this PR 19:35
diakopter github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew/pull/66
ZoffixW AlexDaniel, probably not
stmuk the sha2 hash files are source not bytecode though? 19:36
ZoffixW That is if your problem is still what I saw you mention a few ours back about some sort of .so
AlexDaniel ZoffixW: :(
what does this PR fix then? 19:37
flussence aack, setting PERL6LIB=lib makes «use newline» not work.
ZoffixW AlexDaniel, when you rakudobrew build moar or build-panda it tries to run "rebootstrap.pl" which is now called "bootstrap.pl"
AlexDaniel ZoffixW: yes I see that in the diff, but what is going to happen if it attempts to call the wrong thing? 19:38
ZoffixW AlexDaniel, it just stops.
AlexDaniel, and panda throws an error about :ver<True>:auth<True> etc, which is fixed by running that bootstrap.pl manuall (though likely you have to nuke your install first). I nuked .rakudobrew/.perl6 this morning and installed stuff fresh and ran that bootstrap.pl manuall and everything works great for me so far 19:39
AlexDaniel let's see… maybe it is associated 19:40
19:40 [TuxCM] joined
stmuk or just modify your rakudobrew by deleting the two chars from rebootstrap.pl 19:40
AlexDaniel that's what I did 19:41
diakopter ZoffixW: any other fixes/PRs pending that you know of? 19:43
19:43 jferrero joined
ZoffixW diakopter, PSGI (github.com/supernovus/perl6-psgi/pull/4) and HTTP::Easy (github.com/supernovus/perl6-http-easy/pull/29) on which Bailador depends. and modules.perl6.org/repo/Pluggable is now FUBAR,as it relies on @*INC and there's [currently] no way to fix its functionality 19:45
diakopter what does FUBAR stand for
Hotkeys Fucked Up Beyond All Repair 19:46
diakopter oic.
ZoffixW en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_sla...S_Military :)
19:46 uruwi joined
Hotkeys military slang is so aggressive 19:47
flussence m: use newline :crlf;
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find newline:ver<True>:auth<True>:api<True> in:␤ /home/camelia/.perl6/2015.11-314-g88a8a00␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-…»
flussence okay, nothing to do with PERL6LIB then...
RabidGravy hoo 19:48
19:49 yqt joined
ZoffixW just stole someone's IRC password 19:51
:P
Hotkeys rude
[TuxCM] hdg77^7##-_=1!
ZoffixW Won't use it, but still titillating :P
flussence jumped through ssl cert hoops for an hour just to not have to do that 19:52
AlexDaniel en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title...=562764463
19:52 cpage_ left
AlexDaniel “BOHICA (bend over, here it comes again)” oh well… 19:52
ZoffixW :S
stmuk oh the hashes are when panda installs itself 19:53
ab5tract guh.. change topics? we've got plenty of our own in the hacker's dictionary :)
19:53 cpage_ joined 19:55 uruwi_ joined
Juerd lizmat: Hoi 19:55
moritz [Coke]: I'm subscribed to a service that's supposed to notify me when one of my accounts is compromised. It just sent me an email because my email address showed up in a pastbin paste :-)
ab5tract acronyms, that is. can't open that army slang link myself.
triggers
diakopter moritz: that's pretty neat
ZoffixW moritz, hoa! :) Was pasted by someone who compromized you tho?
moritz [Coke]: seems it was related to contributors to perl6/spec, and maybe your doing :-)
ZoffixW lol
awwaiid greetings! 19:56
moritz and they say that email addresses showing up in pastebins is "often" an early warning sign of a leak :-)
hi awwaiid
lizmat for the Dutch inclined: www.nllgg.nl/sites/default/files/le...ductie.pdf # T-Dose slides
awwaiid Happy Tuesdayish
[Coke] Ok. gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075c7bb1f5 is now also processing Rakudo's Credits file, which helps collapse a bunch of nicks/names and get better names in some cases. Down to 675 authors from 699. shimmerfairy's record, for example, is now collapsed. 19:57
moritz: sorry. :|
I swear these emails are all culled from git repos & CREDITS files. 19:58
19:58 uruwi left
moritz [Coke]: no worries at all, my email address is public in the git repos 19:58
[Coke]: I just found it amusing that the "hacking" notification was set off by gathering credits :-) 19:59
AlexDaniel Worthington@. <Worthington@.(none)> jworthington <jworthington@c213334d-75ef-0310-aa23-eaa082d1ae64>
I think that these are duplicates 20:00
[Coke] AlexDaniel: yes, that's probably jnthn.
b2gills [Coke]: Now can I tell you that I want ｢b2gills｣ associated with ｢Brad Gilbert｣?
[Coke] by adding it to Rakudo's CREDITS file.
add a line of U: b2gills 20:01
diakopter stmuk: I merged those two rakudobrew PRs; can you test it
[Coke] ah, nevermind. 20:02
b2gills: the email address you have listed there should already cover this.
20:02 domidumont1 joined
jnthn AlexDaniel: Wonder what on earth machine I was committing that from... :) 20:02
[Coke] b2gills: are you looking at the latest version?
jnthn But yeah, looks like me
b2gills gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075...s-out-L209 20:03
stmuk diakopter: ok
[Coke] I'll just skip anyone whose name ends in a literal "@."
AlexDaniel There is also a good chance that this is TimToady: larry <larry@c213334d-75ef-0310-aa23-eaa082d1ae64>
[Coke] b2gills: in the announcement, that line will show up as Brad Gilbert
AlexDaniel: adding "larry" to larry's credits file will handle that. 20:04
is that not what you want?
20:04 Peter_R joined
b2gills Which is very non-unique ( and associated with a tennis player ) 20:04
[Coke] Make your CREDITS entry name look like what you want.
MadcapJake What is the difference between `!===` and `!=` operators?
20:05 domidumont left
MadcapJake Is `!===` just oppositve value identity? 20:05
[Coke] there are 2 standards, e.g.: 'Will "Coke" Coleda' or "Jim Keenan (kid51)". right now I'm eliding anything in parens, but I can keep that.
flussence !=== is the ! metaop on ===, isn't it?
(I think there's already a !== defined for that) 20:06
b2gills I didn't know how you wanted it typed out if it wasn't in the middle
MadcapJake In the docs I only see `!=` and `===` operators
20:06 kaare_ left
moritz you can negate any sufficiently bool-y infix op with a leading ! 20:07
m: say 5 !> 5
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«True␤»
b2gills I was thinking of placing it inside of ｢｣ <> or «»
flussence --target=ast tells me !=== and !== both generate a METAOP_NEGATE, while != doesn't
moritz flussence: yes, that's special-cased, because it doesn't negate the assignment operator :-) 20:08
MadcapJake flussence: what's that mean?
20:08 zakharyas left
FROGGS rudi_s_: I've got a fix btw 20:08
MadcapJake moritz: oh so it's a prefix operator for operators :D 20:09
So then `!=` is just a numeric not-equal operator and `===` is a value identity operator (which can be negated with a bang) 20:10
moritz MadcapJake: right
gfldex .oO( Perl6 is fully operational )
moritz m: say 3 !!= 3
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tRWm1JJtxd␤Confused␤at /tmp/tRWm1JJtxd:1␤------> 3say 37⏏5 !!= 3␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ statement modifie…»
moritz m: say 3 !!== 3
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/588CprLrbm␤Confused␤at /tmp/588CprLrbm:1␤------> 3say 37⏏5 !!== 3␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ statement modifi…»
moritz heh, it doesn't like that :-)
MadcapJake: we have more meta operators also :-) 20:11
m: say 1 + 2; say [+] 1, 2, 3, 4 5
flussence m: say 1 != '1', 1 !== '1', 1 !=== '1'
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/MtQCUv4wkY␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/MtQCUv4wkY:1␤------> 3say 1 + 2; say [+] 1, 2, 3, 47⏏5 5␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement e…»
rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«FalseFalseTrue␤»
moritz m: say 1 + 2; say [+] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«3␤15␤»
AlexDaniel m: say "5" R== 5
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«True␤»
moritz the [] turn the infix + operator into a list operator (reduce)
AlexDaniel m: say "5" RRRRR== 5 # …
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«True␤»
moritz m: say 1, 1, 1 Z+ 2, 3, 4
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«(3 4 5)␤»
moritz the Z meta operator threads it through two or more lists 20:12
AlexDaniel m: say 1, 1, 1 RRRRRRZ+ 2, 3, 4
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«(3 4 5)␤»
MadcapJake So `!==` is equivalent to `!=` then right?
moritz right
flussence m: say [>] 2, 1, 3; say [R<=] 2, 1, 3; # bug? 20:13
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
20:13 darutoko left
TimToady m: say 3 ![!==] 3 20:14
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady that's how you have to write that
MadcapJake cool, meta-operators are really slick, for sure! Just have to special-case a couple of these equality ones so that Fira Code doesn't ligaturize things that don't make sense to be ligaturized.
TimToady m: say 3 ![!=] 3
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady or that
m: say 3 !! 3 20:15
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/dqVQvQtldN␤Confused␤at /tmp/dqVQvQtldN:1␤------> 3say 37⏏5 !! 3␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ statement modifier…»
20:15 vendethiel left
TimToady I think STD complained about missing ?? on that one 20:15
AlexDaniel std: say 3 !! 3
camelia std : OUTPUT«No such file or directory»
std : OUTPUT«(timeout)cat: /home/camelia/std/snap/revision: No such file or directory␤msg <diakopter> rakudo-moar: say 3 !=![!=] 3␤msg <diakopter> rakudo-moar: say 3 !==![!=] 3␤msg <diakopter> rakudo-moar: say 3 !==!==!==![!=] 3␤» 20:16
AlexDaniel m what
diakopter m: say 3 !===![!=] 3
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«True␤»
ZoffixW hah
diakopter yah itsa hilarity
stmuk rakudobrew works fine for me (at least from scratch) 20:17
AlexDaniel stmuk: it was merged
TimToady m: say 3 ![!=]![!=] 3
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«False␤»
MadcapJake fira code turns `!=` into `≠` but it looks weird when done with `==` or `===` (`≠=` or `≠==`), but I can use the syntax highlighter to prevent them from providing ligatures in those situations (I've done that for a number of other operators too)
20:18 vendethiel joined
AlexDaniel oh wow! 20:18
20:18 sufrostico joined
AlexDaniel .u ≔ 20:18
yoleaux U+2254 COLON EQUALS [Sm] (≔)
TimToady yup
AlexDaniel .u ≕
yoleaux U+2255 EQUALS COLON [Sm] (≕)
ZoffixW :o
m: my $x ≔ 42; say $x
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/sISwA1Osco␤Confused␤at /tmp/sISwA1Osco:1␤------> 3my $x7⏏5 ≔ 42; say $x␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ statement modifier␤ …»
AlexDaniel m: my $a ≔ 5;
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/0PsY9GCJsF␤Confused␤at /tmp/0PsY9GCJsF:1␤------> 3my $a7⏏5 ≔ 5;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ statement modifier␤ state…»
TimToady a little hard to distinguish in this font
ZoffixW same here. 20:19
TimToady and it's not like we actually want to encourage binding all over the place...
MadcapJake Fira Code automatically turns `:=` into a ligature that looks like `≔`, no need to use unicode.
flussence m: say (([R<] (^10).pick(*)) xx 100).classify(*.so).map(+*.value.elems) # without the «R», this contains 100 Falses 20:20
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«(79 21)␤»
AlexDaniel .u ⧤
yoleaux U+29E4 EQUALS SIGN AND SLANTED PARALLEL WITH TILDE ABOVE [Sm] (⧤)
TimToady looks pretty odd in firefox too
AlexDaniel OH WELL 20:21
.u ⩵
yoleaux U+2A75 TWO CONSECUTIVE EQUALS SIGNS [Sm] (⩵)
AlexDaniel .u ⩶
yoleaux U+2A76 THREE CONSECUTIVE EQUALS SIGNS [Sm] (⩶)
TimToady now if only we could learn to program in proportional fonts...
AlexDaniel yes :(
stmuk . o O ( or use colour like the new FORTH ) 20:22
MadcapJake github.com/tonsky/FiraCode
mspo I can't figure out how to type a unicode character into vi over ssh
TimToady can't use ^K for some reason? 20:23
there are lots of digraphs in vim
mspo what does that do?
TimToady ^K>> makes » for instance
AlexDaniel anyone who nuked their rakudobrew, what do you have in rakudobrew/bin directory?
TimToady I doubt you'll find a digraph for ⧤ though :)
flussence <ctrl+v> u <xdigit>**4 works in vim
TimToady I usually use gnome's ctrl/shift u for that 20:24
does vim allow 5 digit hex tehre?
ZoffixW AlexDaniel, fpaste.scsys.co.uk/502230
TimToady *there
AlexDaniel ZoffixW: okay, correct 20:25
that's what I had before I started having issues
MadcapJake AlexDaniel: moar, nqp-m, perl6-debug-m, perl6-m, rakudobrew, nqp, perl6, perl6-gdb-m, perl6-valgrind-m, rakudobrew.bat
AlexDaniel now I only have rakudobrew and rakudobrew.bat
TimToady the gnome sequence works in irssi too, is why I prefer it
AlexDaniel what could be wrong?
I saw no errors during the installation process…
mspo <shrug> terminal.app + ssh + netbsd + screen + vim seems like too much to get any of these fancy key sequences to work :)
TimToady but mostly I don't use ^K in vim 'cuz I just use my compose key consistently 20:26
well, you sure you have vim there, and not nvi?
mspo TimToady: yeah I'm explicitly using vim
instead of vi (nvi)
TimToady does it display unicode okay? 20:27
mspo I just got it working in this channel recently (at least somewhat)
TimToady and your terminal doesn't, like, use ^K for an escape? 20:28
mspo I see the n/l
flussence checked the help files, looks like vim's is a fixed 4 hex char input...
but gvim does the ctrl+shift+u thing, so that helps
TimToady can you insert a ^K into your vim with ^V^K? 20:29
20:29 Ch0c0late joined
TimToady also, there are variants of vim that are compiled without various features, so you might've got one of those 20:30
mspo TimToady: yes. I just did ^k >> in vim and it gave me a '?' so I think it did something
cat -vet shows: M-;$
TimToady maybe it's confused between latin-1 and utf-8 somehow
what does it say the fileencoding is? 20:31
mspo foo: ISO-8859 text
TimToady that's latin-1
that's file's output right? what does vim say for encoding when you :set all 20:33
AlexDaniel feels so happy that a lot of stuff is UTF8 by default nowadays
mspo latin1 20:34
TimToady you want that to default to utf-8, maybe your LANG is set wrong; mine is LANG=en_US.UTF-8 20:35
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TimToady (the env var) 20:35
mspo thanks
playing around with it 20:36
TimToady well, that should give you some knobs to tweak anyway :)
20:38 domidumont1 left
Skarsnik moritz, hm I have issue with git. I am trying to recommit, I reset, change some stuff and recommit, but It does want to rebase because I changed stuff 20:38
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: well… uhm… perhaps you can --force it, but it sounds like you are doing something scary 20:39
20:40 jeffa joined
Skarsnik root@testperl6:~/piko/DBIish# LC_ALL=C git rebase -i HEAD~1 20:40
Cannot rebase: You have unstaged changes.
Please commit or stash them.
how I stash them? x)
geekosaur git stash
and then git stash pop to reapply after
Skarsnik Oh ok, thx :)
AlexDaniel OK I think that I got it working! 20:43
Skarsnik He refuse to push now, saying it's behind...
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: well, that's what I said…
Skarsnik: are you sure that you want to change the history? 20:44
It seems like the problem is that you can only have rakudobrew in ~/.rakudobrew 20:45
jeffa git rebase, not git revisionist ;)
geekosaur ...why would you want to push something based on HEAD~1?
mspo TimToady: got it fixed up a little bit and also discovered screen's ctrl-a ctrl-v
AlexDaniel it is kinda weird, because it was working just fine previously
Skarsnik I wanted to cancel a commit 20:46
I think I will just do another commit to remove stuff
FROGGS Skarsnik: just revert it, no?
mspo now the output form camelia looks even better
Skarsnik FROGGS, I revert and repush? 20:47
FROGGS revert and push, there is no repush 20:48
AlexDaniel mspo: ｢｣􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA􏿽xCE􏿽xB1βγΔ←↑↓→↔⟲≤≥≈≠∘⋅⋆∙∞✓✗ :)
FROGGS git revert creates a new commit that undoes the said changes
20:48 sQuEE is now known as sQuEE`
[Coke] b2gills: I've added a local CREDITS file to help with this preferred name thing so we don't have to go to rakudo/CREDITS if we don't want to. 20:49
mspo AlexDaniel: looks good :)
Skarsnik pff, How I revert to the last push that worked? 20:50
ZoffixW Skarsnik, xkcd.com/1597/
:)
geekosaur if you haven't pushed that commit upstream then stash changes again and "git reset --hard HEAD~1" to wipe that commit. 20:51
geekosaur has had to do that a few times on other projects
20:51 abaugher_ joined
Skarsnik Zoffix, so true x) 20:52
timotimo sooo much backlog 20:53
yoleaux 16:46Z <dj_goku> timotimo: hey I saw you commited the SEQ change, but did you see my test change (roundtrip)?
20:53 ZoffixW left
timotimo i feel like not reading all of it d| 20:53
dj_goku: i saw it, but the tests are stolen pretty much 1:1 from JSON::Tiny and I'd really like to understand the test a bit more rather than just "fixing" the test; it's talking about an "array of num", but there are only "Rat" objects in there ... 20:54
Skarsnik rah he use his local stuff, not the server stuff, *** this ***
flussence mildly useful discovery of the day: `D=~/.config/git/ignore; mkdir -p $D; echo '**/.precomp' | tee -a $D/ignore` gets rid of the curli nag in every repo 20:55
whoops, s:1st/'/ignore'//;
AlexDaniel flussence: quotes around "$D" please :)
flussence that too... geez I'm usually better at shell than this :) 20:56
jnthn gist.github.com/jnthn/f3a691016c20f0cc4cfa is a proposal for how we'll handle branches, releases, the spectests, and language versioning around and after 6.c. I've passed it around a few people for initial private review; feel free to leave comments on the gist if you have 'em.
(Or discuss here, but I'm teaching the next few days and liable to miss things in the backlog.) 20:57
[Coke] jnthn++ Thank you!
20:57 n0tjack joined
AlexDaniel “Dynamic variable @*INC not found” oh no… 20:57
TimToady jnthn: surely samemark is NYI?
[Coke] m: $_ = "yee haw" ; say +?/\s/ * 1000; 20:58
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«1000␤»
20:59 _mg_ left 21:00 Peter_R left
MadcapJake How do you include code blocks in wordpress? Their web interface won't let me change a block of text to `preformatted` without changing the rest of the text after the block to preformatted also. 21:02
AlexDaniel flussence: well, it also makes sense to put -- like ｢tee -a -- "$D/ignore"｣
jnthn m: sub samemark($a, $b) { my $pattern = $b.comb.map(*.NFD[1..*]); $a.comb.kv.map({ Uni.new($^v.NFC[0], |$pattern[$^k]).Str }).join }; say samemark('jnthn', '_ä__ä') 21:03
camelia rakudo-moar 88a8a0: OUTPUT«jn̈thn̈␤»
jnthn It is now :P
AlexDaniel assuming that home folders can contain spaces and leading dashes…
although the rest of the system will probably blow up if you do that
jnthn uh, expect NFD instead of NFC ;) 21:05
TimToady nobody expects the Spanish NFD!
RabidGravy boom! 21:06
TimToady nobody expects the Spanish Decomposition!
dalek p: 9baf227 | FROGGS++ | / (3 files):
handle "is rw" pointers in native routines on jvm, bump moar
RabidGravy things I love today are Junctions, ranges and multi dispatch 21:07
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[Coke] gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075c7bb1f5 updated with a few more name fixes. I now have an easy way to map data that was weird/archaic in the git logs. Feel free to msg me if you find another one. (working on jonathan's now...) 21:07
MadcapJake Does everyone just use the html Wordpress editor (for Perl 6 advent)? The visual one does not want to let me do headings or code blocks without fudging everything up.
AlexDaniel “Could not find DBDish::Role::Connection:ver<True>:auth<True>:api<True> in:” okay, I am progressing…
21:07 geraud joined
TimToady
.oO(what I tell you three times is "True"...)
 21:07
dalek kudo/nom: 2b5c41e | FROGGS++ | t (3 files):
add tests for "Pointer is rw", bump nqp/moar
 21:08
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FROGGS .tell rudi_s_ please pull all the things and rebuild rakudo, Pointer is rw works now like shown in this test: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2b5c41e94f 21:08
yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to rudi_s_.
FROGGS .tell rudi_s please pull all the things and rebuild rakudo, Pointer is rw works now like shown in this test: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2b5c41e94f 21:09
yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to rudi_s.
ab5tract TimToady: "nobody expects the Spanish Decomposition!" <---- it's for phrasings like these that we should have a quote bot :)
jnthn FROGG++
21:09 kjs_ left
jnthn uh, FROGGS++ too :) 21:09
21:09 rindolf left
FROGGS *g* 21:09
21:11 lestrrat left
ab5tract hm, DBIish compilefails a test during 'panda install DBIish' 21:12
this is from fresh everything
it's quite exciting to see the CURLI stuff settling :D 21:13
jnthn Indeed; nine++
AlexDaniel ab5tract: :(
ab5tract AlexDaniel: "Invalid typename 'DBDish::Role::Connection'" 21:14
AlexDaniel ab5tract: actually I'm trying to install DBIish for the last 20 minutes…
ab5tract: yes, well… similar problem
dalek line-Perl5: 11b628e | (Stefan Seifert)++ | lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:
Some adaptions for new CompUnit architecture
 21:15
ab5tract "# Using PGDATABASE: (none)" <-- this made me assume it was about a missing pg dependency
21:15 lestrrat joined
masak brrt++ # brrt-to-the-future.blogspot.se/2015...-news.html 21:16
Skarsnik hm
maybe some issue with the 'hotplug' of drivers for DBIish? 21:17
RabidGravy it's all going to be good, I've just not rebuilt rakudo on this laptop for several days :)
Skarsnik and DBI tests are weird
21:17 sno left
ab5tract masak++ # pointing it out 21:17
brrt++ # awesome post!
21:18 kjs_ joined
jdv79 who uses the bleeding edge anyway! 21:18
ihavent rebuilt in days. maybe weeks...
ab5tract jdv79: crash test dummies :D
AlexDaniel ab5tract: any idea what to do about it? 21:19
21:19 Su-Shee_ joined
ab5tract well, it is compile time 21:19
21:19 Su-Shee left, kjs_ left, Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
ab5tract whenever you get an apology, you know you never even got to runtime 21:19
AlexDaniel ab5tract: DBDish ? 21:20
ab5tract: it should be DBIish, right?
ah no
ab5tract yeah, it's the driver. part that's choking. 21:21
jdv79 and all my stuff still works:)
21:21 sQuEE` left
ab5tract AlexDaniel: do you have pg installed? 21:21
AlexDaniel yes
MadcapJake hmm, I already have over 500 words in this advent article but I wanted to talk about using ctags with atom, should I skip it? Mention it briefly in passing? Or go the whole nine yards?
jdv79 nine ++ # though
ab5tract let me install postgres locally and see where i get
MadcapJake: do not concern yourself with post length! 21:22
Skarsnik just install the lib
moritz MadcapJake: that's really up to you.
Skarsnik the testshould just be skipped
if no server
21:22 sQuEE joined
ab5tract i say that personally, because advent is always the core of the perl 6 update. there is no reason to not tell as much as there is 21:22
moritz MadcapJake: skimming it, I'd say it's fine as it is now, but more content wouldn't hurt either 21:23
ab5tract no one ever mentioned a 500 word limit to me
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: I installed it with --notests but it does not work
MadcapJake I think I'll skip it because I think I had to edit a package to make it use universal ctags instead of exuberant ctags. :P
moritz MadcapJake: also please set the category to 2015
ab5tract are there still slots? 21:24
moritz ab5tract: yes
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: Could not find DBDish::Role::Connection:ver<True>:auth<True>:api<True>
Skarsnik Oh
21:24 kjs_ joined
moritz ab5tract: for Dec 4th, 6th and 7th 21:24
MadcapJake ab5tract: no word limit given to me either, but I just skimmed previous years and most aren't terribly long
moritz ab5tract: though masak++ said he was open to trades
jdv79 ab5tract: do you have a slot?
ab5tract not yet 21:25
i'd love the 7th
masak I am open to trades
moritz oh, and 10th is also free
jdv79 do it!
Skarsnik there is ver/author in this class lol
moritz ab5tract: do you already have a topic?
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: alright!
ab5tract hmm. it's supposed to publish at which point in the day? :)
Skarsnik no
there no is ver/author in this class
jdv79 before?
moritz ab5tract: it's best if you finish it on the day before, and schedule for publishing at midnight 21:26
nine I just pushed two commits to panda that should make life somewhat simpler again:
9aac409 Support --force flag to get around "is already installed" check
Skarsnik I don't really know how the precompiled stuff
nine ddf2f82 Force installation of panda when running bootstrap.pl
moritz nine++
jdv79 nine++
moritz shouldn't dalek report panda commits here?
Skarsnik Aaah
All the role are not in the META.json
could that be the issue with DBI? 21:27
ab5tract ok, i can do the 7th
nine Skarsnik: yes, quite possible. All module files have to be in there
ab5tract as long as you don't mind a bit of in the trenches gonzo journalism
from an already-scheduled perl 6 learnathon on friday night 21:28
masak learnathon! \o/ 21:29
ab5tract honestly a bit of leeway with the deadline would be appreciated. i would feel better about it if i could give it a morning read over rather than posting while drinkcoding (<-- only smashcase whenyouhidingsumtin ;) ) 21:30
i'm still +6 EST
jdv79 wut? arent you an adult? 21:31
:)
21:31 cdg joined
ab5tract jdv79: confused but rolling with it ;P 21:32
21:32 kjs_ left
[Coke] "Who let me adult?" - my son's t-shirt. 21:33
ab5tract ah, i get you. not hiding the drinkcoding from anyone but the code itself :)
timotimo ab5tract: is +6 EST a lot of alcohol?
jdv79 im just confused myself. posting a draft a bit before the day change seems s great idea to me.
21:34 rurban joined
jdv79 so it can be reviewed 21:34
ab5tract right but where do you draw the line? where the white man did? :P
jdv79 :)
[Coke] JimmyZ++ - all the specs people are added, along with a few conversions of nicks to names. also made sure to add Jon O.
Skarsnik *listing all pm for DBIis*
dalek ast: 47beba9 | jnthn++ | S06-advanced/wrap.t:
You can't return a block.

Correcting this test in preparation for correcting some failure to identify illegal returns.
mspo can nqp run Configure.pl if I want to not need perl5 for building perl6? 21:35
jnthn uh, return *from* a block. Duh
ab5tract jdv79: then the 6th would be a better day for me
jnthn mspo: Not yet
jdv79 theres a file in mu somewhere. make it so:) 21:36
ab5tract i feel like it would be a fun post to show what a "friday night in amsterdam" can produce in perl 6
21:36 avalenn left 21:37 avalenn joined
ab5tract but i can do that somewhere else :) 21:38
jnthn: the can the returned block return a block which never returned? 21:39
21:40 Su-Shee_ joined
jnthn ab5tract: Um...I'm confused. :) 21:40
21:40 njmurphy_ joined
MadcapJake moritz: any chance you'd look over my advent article for errors? Also, do I set it to publish on the 3rd at 0:00 GMT? 21:41
ab5tract "You can't return a block" # 10 Block Commandments :)
Skarsnik is there a quick way to test if a json is valid?
ab5tract (well, Block non-Commandments in that case)
jnthn :P
jdv79 what is "a json"? 21:42
AlexDaniel Skarsnik++ # for trying to fix DBIish
21:42 Su-Shee left
Skarsnik *file 21:42
jdv79 try to parse it?
RabidGravy json_xs < somejsonfile
21:42 bjz left
ab5tract so about the post 21:42
it's totally draftable before midnight 21:43
havenwood jdv79: A String that contains something serialized to JavaScript Object Notation (JSON).
RabidGravy give me, give me, give me a draft about midnight
havenwood jdv79: Oh, sorry I should have looked at context. Nevermind me. :O
jdv79 i have never had a json
haha 21:44
diakopter I split a json for lunch
RabidGravy json and the argonauts
dalek ast: 3230782 | jnthn++ | S06-signature/closure-parameters.t:
Fix another return-outside-of-routine thinko.
ast: 61729a3 | jnthn++ | integration/advent2010-day14.t:
nextsame returns, so needs to be in a routine.
jdv79 Skarsnik++ # sorry. just f'in around 21:45
[Coke] I wonder how long until we have a colleague named Json (pronounced Jason) 21:46
RabidGravy Skarsnik, if this is a META.info, META6.json then Test::META is go
jeffa i juse use this: perl -MData::Dumper -MJSON -MFile::Slurp -e"print Dumper decode_json read_file shift"
[Coke] Given that I know kids named Ada and Perl.
Hotkeys [Coke]: don't forget Robert'); DROP TABLE students;-- 21:47
dalek Iish: 9aeecff | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | META.info:
List nearly all the file, does Testmock is supposed to be distribued?
 21:48
Iish: 8a02252 | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | lib/DBDish/SQLite/Native.pm6:
Merge branch 'master' of github.com/perl6/DBIish
kudo/nom: a4ca12a | jnthn++ | src/vm/ (2 files):
Fix some failures to catch return outside routine.

We actually ended up returning from the first thing we found down the call stack that could be returned from, which led to some rather odd behaviors. RT #123732 was a great example; this:
   for ^5 { .say; NEXT { return } }
Ended up with the return binding to the run_phasers method that runs the NEXT phasers. This also makes return a tad cheaper, and will let us make return a multi sub too, for further performance win. But this patch just corrects the semantics.
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=123732
lizmat
.oO( little bobby tables )
Hotkeys that's a ;pt pf sbseqemt cp,,ots
er
that's a lot of subsequent commits
jnthn Keys getting a bit too hot? :)
Skarsnik I hope git didnot break anything, it complained my repo was behind the main one and when I pull it complain at was 2 commit ahead *facepalm* 21:49
21:49 kjs_ joined, rindolf joined
dalek : d458b81 | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2015/schedule:
ab5tract++ claims spot 10
 21:49
ast: 99ab03c | jnthn++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
Tests for RT #123732.
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=123732
Hotkeys jnthn: yeah
jnthn The commits! They won't stop! 21:50
Hotkeys These keys are too damn hot
RabidGravy three more and no more advent 21:51
jdv79 jimmy mcmillan would approve
21:51 xfix left
Skarsnik does DBIish still can be installed? x) 21:51
lizmat Amsterdam.pm shutting down&
jdv79 nobody can accuse this group of being non-commital:)
21:51 lizmat left 21:52 donaldh joined, colomon left, njmurphy joined
Hotkeys no more advent? 21:53
dalek ast: dda235a | jnthn++ | S04-statements/return.t:
Unfudge return semantics test we now pass.
21:54 Fleurety joined
jnthn Down to 22 xmas RTs 21:54
21:54 Deepak joined
jnthn Hotkeys: Probably "no more free advent calendar slots for anyone who wants to write" 21:55
Deepak Hello All, I am playing with Perl6 and quite enjoying it so far..
Hotkeys oh 21:56
that's fine
I just want to read advent
jnthn :)
21:56 kst joined
jnthn Well, in some years it took some effort to get enough authors together to have a post a day. Seems we don't have too many problems this year. 21:56
Deepak especially love the string implementation, but I have a doubt - my $str2 = "caf\x65\x301";
for $str2.encode('UTF-8').contents() -> $code_point { printf("%x ", $code_point); } say();
this prints: 63 61 66 c3 a9 21:57
is there a way to get back the "original" codepoints?
jnthn Deepak: Strings work at grapheme level, and are normalized as part of that 21:58
jdv79 i think multiples would be ok, no?
Deepak yup.. I get that - it's pretty handy that this works: my $str = "café"; my $str2 = "caf\x65\x301"; say $str eq $str2;
Hotkeys m: say "caf\x65\x301".codes
camelia rakudo-moar 2b5c41: OUTPUT«4␤»
Hotkeys oops
that's just a count
jnthn But now, we don't keep around what things used to be 21:59
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: I'll test it
jnthn *no
22:00 raiph left
jnthn Otherwise every single string would have to carry that kind of information around. 22:00
Deepak exactly... I wonder if it should.. but anyway.. if that's a design decision we made, that's what it is
jnthn Yes, it's intentional.
Skarsnik hm, unrelated to DBIish, I want to write soemthing to play with a web API (http/rest? discordapi.readthedocs.org/en/lates...ml#login), do I need to poll to get new messages from the server? *noob in this kind of stuff* 22:01
Deepak FWIW, Swift (the other language I am playing with) keeps around the original.. the comparison happens at grapheme level but if you do str2.utf8, you get the original code points back
[Coke] Deepak: there are buffer types that can work on bytes if you prefer to do that instead of characters.
AlexDaniel hm, how can I tell panda to remove something? 22:02
Skarsnik how str (not Str) are encoded? the same?
22:03 n0tjack left, sno joined
[Coke] m: str; 22:03
camelia ( no output )
Deepak <Skarsnik> in Perl6 or Swift?
jnthn Deepak: Yes, though Swift's model is a bit different; in Perl 6 we actually use graphemes as the primary represenatoin of strings.
[Coke] I don't think str::Str is the same as int::Int
jnthn *representation
[Coke]: Close. :)
jdv79 close was an interesting parrot "based" lang 22:04
Skarsnik m: my str $a = "caf\x65\x301"; for $str2.encode('UTF-8').contents() -> $code_point { printf("%x ", $code_point); }
camelia rakudo-moar 2b5c41: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Kq6McfcCKm␤Variable '$str2' is not declared␤at /tmp/Kq6McfcCKm:1␤------> 3my str $a = "caf\x65\x301"; for 7⏏5$str2.encode('UTF-8').contents() -> $cod␤»
geekosaur hm, that makes me wonder...
Skarsnik m: my str $a = "caf\x65\x301"; for $a.encode('UTF-8').contents() -> $code_point { printf("%x ", $code_point); }
camelia rakudo-moar 2b5c41: OUTPUT«63 61 66 c3 a9 »
jnthn str is just an unboxed Str
jdv79 he was a cool guy.
geekosaur pyanfar:63388 Z$ touch $(printf 'fil\303\251\n') $(printf 'file\314\201\n')
pyanfar:63389 Z$ ls
file􏿽xCC􏿽x81 filé
Skarsnik lol 22:05
Deepak yeah.. Swift's model has upside but downsides too.. there is a runtime cost to comparison, extracting substrings involves doing a Dance with ranges etc.
AlexDaniel “Support --force flag to get around "is already installed" check” 41 minutes ago – oh, that's what I need!
geekosaur (inevitable result of Unix being byte strings, not Unicode)
but I wonder how, if at all, we deal with this...
22:06 skids left
Deepak MacOS filesystem stores accented characters in decomposed form (or used to in 2010) 22:07
jnthn Deepak: Yeah...we picked the easy comparison, O(1) indexing, etc.
22:07 zengargoyle left 22:08 zengargoyle joined
geekosaur yes, HFS+ specifically stores normalized names 22:08
ufs, zfs, ext4, etc. do not
AlexDaniel “panda:ver<*>:auth<>:api<> already installed” now how do I get around this…
Zoffix rm -fr .perlbrew/ .... *oh crap*
arnsholt geekosaur: Yeah, because Unix filenames have to be blobs of bytes, I think 22:09
diakopter Zoffix: oops
22:09 jeffa left
arnsholt (Non-HFS+ not normalizing, that is) 22:09
jnthn Time for sleep...'night, #perl6
diakopter o/
Zoffix Wanted to toss rakudobrew :/
night
donaldh PR for more awesome USAGE github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/608
AlexDaniel donaldh++ 22:10
Deepak but when I readdir say: e.g. @stuff = readdir($dir); (perl5), @stuff will have a bunch of strings in the "original" form 22:11
which I can get back as: unpack("U*", $stuff);
I'll try this in Perl6 and see what gives
so Perl6 equivalent of this: www.deepakg.com/prog/2010/09/unicod...ilesystem/ 22:12
this one place where I think "preserving" the original code points might be important
but I don't know Perl6 well enough yet to know what readdir equivalent will return
Skarsnik there is probably a workaround? 22:13
jdv79 jnthn: nite
Deepak anyway.. thanks all for your help, I need to be sleeping as well
geekosaur yes, that's exactly what I was getting at
(the example shell thing was not to see if that command would work --- I knew it would --- but to demonstrate that this is something perl6 must be prepared to deal with) 22:14
or at least perl6 programmers
22:14 dolmen left
geekosaur gtk+ and a few other toolkits have already had run-ins with this issue 22:14
Skarsnik Oh I think I had weird issue with Qt for this 22:16
Deepak geekosaur agreed there has to be a way to read filenames "as stored on the native os"
Skarsnik Or it was passing unicode (file path) to a gtk executable under windows
with Qt
dj_goku Is there a reason to limit it to 25 posts on the advent calendar? 22:17
22:17 colomon joined
gtodd hmm so does tweaking docs.perl6.org to make something appear in search.js as { label: "Reference: ... whatever } make the term "searchable" or just appear in the dropdown? 22:18
Zoffix dj_goku, no and I believe PerlJam mentioned they would accept more than 1 post per day
dj_goku I mean this is the "Christmas".
nadim hi, I thought my @l = 'a', 'b' x 1 .. Inf ; would have given me a lazy list that I can shift from but no. is there a simple way to do that?
Zoffix gtodd, what's the difference between being "searchable" and "just appear in the dropdown"?
Deepak g'night all
gtodd I guess there is none :-D
Zoffix night
gtodd but I thought there might be some way it was wired up 22:19
Zoffix m: my @l = 'a', 'b' x 1 .. Inf ; say shift @l
camelia rakudo-moar a4ca12: OUTPUT«a␤»
gtodd for p6doc and the site at the same time
Zoffix nadim, ^ what's the issue?
gtodd, oh, no idea for the p6doc
jdv79 Zoffix: canada?
Zoffix jdv79, verb?
22:19 Deepak left
Zoffix :) 22:19
jdv79, what do you mean canada?
nadim Zoffix: on the second shift I get error "Can not shift from empty array" 22:20
22:20 [TuxCM] left
Zoffix jdv79, I'm in canukistan yes 22:20
jdv79 where do you eake and sleep?
wake
Zoffix nadim, oh. That sounds a familar issue
jdv79, Brampton
nadim m: my @l = 'a', 'b' x 1 .. Inf ; say shift @l ; say shift @l
camelia rakudo-moar a4ca12: OUTPUT«a␤"b"..Inf␤»
jdv79 is that ET 22:21
Zoffix nadim, how old is your rakudo? I recall this issue cropping up and I believe it might've been also fixed
jdv79 ?
Zoffix jdv79, yes
jdv79 danke
Zoffix jdv79, 40 minute drive away from Toronto
nadim Zoffix: I build from source a few days ago
jdv79 kul
gtodd well I guess with docs.p6.org just adding pull requests with a decent explanation seeing if they are welcome or not is what you can do with git ... there's no real slush or freeze just because Christmas is coming
Zoffix nadim, no idea then, sorry
nadim thanks anyway :)
Zoffix .tell PerlJam I've seen several times today people who [I assume want to write] disappointed that Advent list is full. Maybe there's some sort of "official" way we can have a free-for-all and launch a bunch of articles per day, if people wanna write, since this Christmas is THE Christmas? 22:23
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to PerlJam.
jdv79 Zoffix: so when im home we tz the same 22:24
weird
touchscreens-- 22:25
gtodd Zoffix: trying to point "search terms" like $! $. &! at twigils entry etc. etc. on the site ti seems straightforward but I'm not sure how p6doc indexes things 22:26
Zoffix neither
jdv79 Zoffix: we should talk soon. 22:28
Zoffix :S
jdv79 bout searchy stuffs 22:29
Zoffix About what?
:\
jdv79 but im tired now
Zoffix don't tell me it's about the Curse of The Searchbox.
jdv79 (and prolly drank a bit too much to be useful)
Zoffix That I'm now the "search box guy" :P 22:30
jdv79 thats for later
ha
Zoffix k
dalek Iish: 4a5b064 | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | META.info:
Travis build failed because of TestMock, adding it to Meta.info
 22:31
22:33 molaf left
Zoffix heh 22:33
Zoffix is tempted to launch a P6 modules.perl6.org site on meatcpan.org 22:34
forgot I owned that domain
uruwi_ :P 22:35
Still, the P6 people are trying to add P6 support to cpan
konobi meat cpan? 22:36
Zoffix konobi, result of someone saying "I can't believe still no one registered meatcpan.org! I just made that typo" while I was a few beers deep :P
RabidGravy I still own perlmonkeys.org 22:37
Hotkeys it's a reference to meatspin
22:37 mr-foobar left
Zoffix Hotkeys, lol, no it's not :P 22:37
Hotkeys seems like it
it definitely could be
I was just making assumptions
Hotkeys goes back into his hideyhole
22:38 mr-foobar joined 22:39 yubimusubi is now known as Possum
konobi Zoffix: =0P 22:39
22:43 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
dalek : 7bee91b | ab5tract++ | misc/perl6advent-2015/schedule:
Adding topics to Advent 2015 Schedule
 22:44
Zoffix Oh, lovely... panda install . ; "Failed to open file /home/zoffix/.perl6/2015.11-316-ga4ca12a/precomp/5AF218BA645645038917D5D9018B5BE9758143B3.1449009305.7512/BA/BA3121F61FEB38394BEA74E6B2D1E37B64DFB75B.deps: no such file or directory"
ab5tract gfldex: grateful to see a binding related post@
! 22:45
22:45 YP-QMUL-W left
tadzik :) 22:45
Zoffix Oh damn. I get that even when I just run `panda` :S
tadzik stuff broke
I'll look at stuff tomorrow :) 22:46
Zoffix hehe :)
22:47 kjs_ left
Zoffix Hm, I now see when I ran first install after rakudobrew build-panda, it outputted "Probable version skew in pre-compiled '/home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/1DFE685402E5E769238D3FDC622C129BB2C0B0FB' (cause: no STable at index 4532)" 22:47
Skarsnik I love curli, it's entairtaining to see the error at least x) 22:49
Zoffix I did notice stuff working faster today tho
22:51 raiph joined
Zoffix tadzik, never mind. Running rakudobrew build-panda again fixed the issue.... whatever it was :S 22:53
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: it does not look like DBIish is fixed…
tadzik crazy. Typical :)
Skarsnik AlexDaniel, same as travis-ci.org/perl6/DBIish/builds/94277790 ? 22:54
22:55 rurban left
RabidGravy there may be a "special number" in ranges 22:55
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: yes
RabidGravy 1 .. 12
22:55 rurban joined, rurban left
Skarsnik this test pass for me ~~ 22:55
well I have to go to bed :( 22:57
Zoffix night
22:58 gugod joined 22:59 n0tjack joined
Skarsnik there was not an issue with prove and stuff loaded? 22:59
23:00 gugod left, gugod joined, colomon left
jdv79 Zoffix: nite 23:01
23:02 cdg left
jdv79 who types meat in place of meta? 23:03
23:03 Skarsnik left, n0tjack left
jdv79 fairlt distinct to me 23:03
ab5tract hehe
"he who questions others, to others, questions himself to others" 23:04
jdv79 i dont... ok. 23:05
nye amsterdam. ab5tract: where?
i plan to be "there"
23:05 donaldh left
ab5tract never seen a ticket sold to this place. but a plan can get you there, sure. 23:06
not the road i took, mind you. 23:07
jdv79 what does it all mean?!
23:10 vendethiel left
[Coke] we talked about "use v6" in the past few days, and someone suggestion "better perl5 errors" - that's broken with "use v6.c, that's just a syntax error" 23:10
(quote mismatch there, sorry) 23:11
ab5tract jdv79: who knows
i've heard rumors that the trick is not to care
23:13 Zoffix left, rindolf left 23:16 dolmen joined 23:18 colomon joined 23:19 [TuxCM] joined 23:21 dolmen left
ab5tract finally parses 'nye' 23:21
hope to you see you around jdv79 :) 23:22
jdv79 thanks
ab5tract o/ #perl6 ! and a very merry advent to us all! 23:23
[Coke] wonders if "adamk" in the logs is adam kennedy 23:24
23:26 TEttinger joined 23:27 Ch0c0late left 23:30 lostinfog left
autarch moritz: any suggestions for a Perl 6 advent calendar entry I should write - I could probably have one ready next week some time 23:30
23:32 kid51 joined
RabidGravy autarch, as it stands only the 4th and the 7th left 23:32
autarch ah, that's a little soon for me 23:33
[Coke] there has been talk of doing more than one post per day.
Hotkeys What is the method I need to define in a class for the "say" representation
[Coke] I'm sure we can shuffle things.
Hotkeys: say uses .gist
RabidGravy Hotkeys, .gist
Hotkeys so 'method gist {...}'
RabidGravy autarch, I'll swap you the 11th 23:34
autarch RabidGravy: sure, that'd work
but I still need a topic 23:36
[Coke] pulled in parrot's credits file as well.
23:37 Zoffix joined
[Coke] up to 761 entries in the contributor list. a few known dupes. More eyes to spot more dupes welcome. 23:37
gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075c7bb1f5 - also pointers to other sources of names we should consider.
Zoffix Dam, more fallout from curli: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/7cd03ed84dbbb4db8fa3
[Coke] oh, I see more CREDITS Files in the repos I'm using, grabbing those... 23:38
RabidGravy autarch, elaborate on the thread / scheduler thing from your blog post
autarch yeah, that could work
Zoffix [Coke], this and line below it are dupes: gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075...s-out-L100 23:39
RabidGravy I'll stick you in for the 11th
[Coke] Zoffix: yes, already listed in the README.
23:39 dfcarpenterak joined
[Coke] Danke. 23:39
autarch the 11th is good
Zoffix [Coke], chromatic wishes not to be included, yet they're in the list: gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075...s-out-L114 23:40
dalek : 6bffa21 | RabidGravy++ | misc/perl6advent-2015/schedule:
Update schedule
23:40 jevin_ joined
[Coke] Zoffix: yes, I'm not writing code to rip him out, I'll remove him manually when I put it in the release announcement. 23:40
Thank you, though.
Zoffix ah :) k
[Coke] (unless I write code to also pull out bots or unknowns, then I might add him to that list) 23:41
another push, we're now processing all the CREDITS files in the repos we're checking. 23:42
23:42 pierrot left, pierrot joined, jevin left
RabidGravy I may well have commits in parrot under [email@hidden.address] 23:43
[Coke] RabidGravy: gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075...s-out-L642
One step ahead of you? 23:44
RabidGravy cool 23:46
AlexDaniel [Coke]: another possible source of contributors to Perl 6 effort is bug reports, though that might be a bit too inclusive 23:48
[Coke] fixed the formatting in the README
JimmyZ asked that earlier. My thought is that it's too inclusive, yes.
TimToady though it might give us some nick->realname mappings 23:49
[Coke] If you get consensus, I'll see about doing it. I'm happy to add a sentence to the release announcement in place of enumerating them, however.
TimToady: we have quite a few of them. many of the remaining once are from old svn2git conversions that lazily didn't get emails.
like "eric256" or "exodist" 23:50
Zoffix finishes looking through the entire list
23:50 csd_ left
[Coke] crap, found mstevens & Michael stevens, consolidating... 23:50
TimToady "We would also like to thank everyone who submitted bug reports or dropped in on the various forums to discuss things. Finally, we'd like to extend a special thanks to everyone who we accidentally left out of this list, or who requested that they be left out." :)
Exodist wait, what?
not sure why I was pinged? 23:51
Zoffix [Coke], I only found two entries that *might* refer to same humans, but the rest looks fine to me. These are the lines (and the dupes are a line below): gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075...s-out-L592 and gist.github.com/coke/63c7bbb82f075...s-out-L748
Exodist [Coke], what about me?
[Coke] Ha! I found him!
23:51 hankache joined
[Coke] exodist <exodist@c213334d-75ef-0310-aa23-eaa082d1ae64> 23:51
^^ you committing something to some perl6-related repo sometime.
If you want, I can show your name instead of that nick. 23:52
Exodist oh, is this about contributions? I think I contributed a test a couple years back
sure, thats fine
Zoffix Oh Ahmed Zawawi is already listed in the README
[Coke] Zoffix: Probably added on a recent refresh. Thank you for the eyes!
hankache evening
23:52 njmurphy_ left
masak hankache: \o 23:53
[Coke] I am now tempted to pick all the nick-only entries and compare them against /names! (someone else feel free to do that. :)
hankache hi masak
[Coke] I'm heading out. feel free to .ask me with any other suggestions on the list. 23:54
23:54 Zoffix left
masak yawns 23:58
'night, #perl6
RabidGravy yo

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