6.2.7 released! | pugscode.org/ <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | Chip needs help!!! www.geeksunite.net
Set by kungfuftr on 30 June 2005.
geoffb Once again, I have been led astray by contextual confusion. ;-) 00:00
Darren_Duncan people seem to say God's name between every other word when they're excited about something ... it has entered common usage ... but it isn't "right"
which has the strange result of people that don't even believe God exists still saying the name in every sentence, like "oh god oh god oh god ..."
luqui geoffb, I kind of understand what you mean
in particular, I think Perl 6 makes it too easy to create confusing interfaces without noticing 00:01
geoffb Darren_Duncan, heh
luqui, nodnod
Darren_Duncan as far as my own work goes in using Perl 6 short term ... 00:02
while I greatly appreciate all of its new features, I still prefer that any reasonable assumptions I make in perl 5 will still hold true in perl 6 00:03
for example, that when you have a reference to something, simply assigning it to a variable, or passing it as a function arg, or returning it from a function, will return a copy of that reference, and not unwrap it or wrap it or anything like that 00:04
that's how both Perl 5 and various other languages like Java do it, and that's the default behaviour I want in Perl 6
geoffb Yes, that's the kind of stuff I was referring to, Darren_Duncan
Darren_Duncan having easy support for references is essential for making any complicated program
luqui there is no autoenreferencing 00:05
er, autoderef
whoops
references will stay reference
s
Darren_Duncan I'm debating whether I should say the last few things on p6l, or whether they already make the same assumptions
geoffb luqui, what is supposed to happen when you feed a reference to one type of container to a sub expecting a different type of container (but for which there is a defined DWIM conversion)? 00:07
Is it a type failure or an auto-conversion?
luqui as in: sub foo (@a) { } my $x = [1,2,3]; foo($x) ? 00:08
geoffb I was thinking something closer to sub foo (%a)
Darren_Duncan my opinion is that the type signiture of the function argument should specify what happens
geoffb (and $x having even element count, of course)
luqui that would be an error 00:09
Darren_Duncan alternately, I would say that no conversion or only very simple conversions should happen by default ... it should be very predictable, and the syntax simplest for the common case 00:10
essentially, more verbose syntax means change more, less verbose means change less or not at all
geoffb So if I wanted to force the conversion, what should I do (at the caller location)? Do I have to manually build a hashref before the call to foo? 00:11
Darren_Duncan maybe ... but doing so is easy
I still think that having zero conversion is the best option if nothing in the code explicitly says to do differently 00:12
and if there is a type mismatch ... its an error
geoffb No argument there, I just want to know what the current rules are. :-)
luqui geoffb, I think you do
foo hash @$x
Darren_Duncan why would anyone do that? 00:13
luqui if @$x is an alternating k/v list
or a list of pairs
geoffb Darren_Duncan, what luqui said.
Impedence matching of APIs, fer instance
Darren_Duncan it will take more thought on my part ... but sometimes I think some of this autoconversion stuff is meant to make certain simple programs shorter, but everything else, including large programs, more difficult 00:14
or alternately, a feature that's good for a marketing talk but poor in actual work 00:15
geoffb My general preference is proper huffman-coding of a basic semantic that does exactly what you say.
The more I say, the more it helps the optimizer and compile-time checks, but it should not change the meaning of the program to be more precise. 00:16
Darren_Duncan I like the new Perl 6 feature that lists will not flatten unless you preceed with '*' or suffix with '[]'
geoffb I very commonly build medium sized programs by starting with a one-liner, and slowly adding to it. I want that method of working not to suck.
Darren_Duncan, agreed. 00:17
luqui Darren_Duncan, but, they do flatten if they are in a flattening context
but that arguably happens on the callee side 00:18
Darren_Duncan fyi, the kind of programs I work with routinely use multi-dimensional (as in, structure of structure...) data structures, where all but the root structure is always references anyway, and so I often like to make the root a reference too, keeping everything consistent, and using those everywhere
geoffb luqui, that would *have* to semantically happen on the callee side, I would think.
Darren_Duncan, ditto. 00:19
meppl why is there a problem with implementing eval correctly? 00:23
luqui where? 00:24
you mean on parrot?
meppl i dont know ;)
luqui well, give me more info about your question then. what made you think it?
meppl it does not work
luqui example code? 00:25
meppl # pugs hangman.p6
pugs: user error (*** No compatible subroutine found: "&eval"
at ../../ext/File-Spec/lib/File/Spec.pm line 15, column 5-36)
luqui oh, that's interesting
you don't have BYPASS_PRELUDE set do you? 00:26
rather, PUGS_BYPASS_PRELUDE
meppl so, since today it does not work 00:27
emh, i dont know ;)
luqui once my pugs finishes compiling, I'll look at the svn logs
see if there's anything conspicuous 00:28
meppl <clkao> Failed 167/350 test scripts, 52.29% okay. 1704/6131 subtests failed, 72.21% okay. 00:30
<clkao> lots of failures
<dudley> It looks like &eval is broken
<geoffb> That's one way to get faster. ;-)
luqui hmm
dudley I get the same error for "&open" and "&Pugs::Internals::check_for_io_leak", too. 00:31
luqui hmm, perhaps the prelude was disabled
both eval and open are defined in prelude
dudley I'm assuming this has something to do with the precompiled Prelude... 00:32
Is there a way to disable it, and use the old one instead? 00:34
luqui precompiled prelude is news to me 00:35
dudley It was committed early this morning, I think. 00:38
svnbot6 r5151, Stevan++ | Perl6-MetaModel : adding SubMethod class; changed the MetaModel to use SubMethod for any BUILD methods; creating a new instance will pass all %params from new_instance into the BUILD methods (we need a BUILDALL method really); thats about all for now, time for some sleeping :) 03:27
r5152, putter++ | Improved MatchX description. 03:46
tainted- where can i find a tutorial on installing CPAN modules?
wolverian tainted-: perldoc CPAN. you probably want #perl, not #perl6, for such questions. 03:47
Khisanth perlbot: life with cpan > tainted-
wolverian perlbot: life with cpan > wolverian 03:48
svnbot6 r5153, Stevan++ | Perl6-MetaModel : added several items to the TODO list after skiming over Syn/Apoc 12 again; I think I might need to take some of these to p6l; anyone with time and knowledge is encouraged to review and respond, thanks 03:52
r5154, putter++ | Added ^,^^,$,$$,literal,<before>, and <after> to rx_grammar.pl 04:06
04:37 theorbtw1 is now known as theorbtwo
gaal morning! 05:08
theorbtwo G'morning, gaal. 05:11
pasteling "gaal" at 192.115.25.249 pasted "Prelude status" (11 lines, 528B) at sial.org/pbot/11497 05:15
gaal Prelude is broken: sial.org/pbot/11497 | 6.2.7 released! | pugscode.org/ <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | Chip needs help!!! www.geeksunite.net
spinclad layla tova, gaal
geoffb morning, gaal
gaal grrrrrrrrrr
boker tov
why doesn't /topic work? 05:16
geoffb FINALLY finishes article draft
man that was like bleading through my forehead
bleeding even
gaal geoffb, what's it on? 05:17
TO2: hi! how was TO? (heh.)
geoffb OpenGL and SDL_Perl -- fourth in a series on perl.com.
Of course, I still have to do an editing pass tomorrow, then forward to chromatic to get his edits . . . .
But the hard part is now done, so I feel MUCH better. 05:18
gaal editing becomes much eaiser when you manage to divorce it from the writing phase
theorbtwo Prelude is broken: sial.org/pbot/11497 | 6.2.7 released! | pugscode.org/ <Overview Journal Logs> | pugs.kwiki.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | Chip needs help!!! www.geeksunite.net 05:18
geoffb nodnod 05:18
gaal thank you, theorbtwo.
write - edit - write - edit - write - edit - get fed up and edit no more :) 05:19
geoffb Once I've handed it off to chromatic, I'll get back to trying to get it to work in Perl 6. ;-)
NODNOD
(Last time I tried, pugs' Perl 5 integration fu was not yet strung enough.) 05:20
theorbtwo Wow. Chip looks pretty fucked. 05:21
geoffb And chromatic has also since sent me a Parrot patch to get Parrot SDL to handle OpenGL as well, so that might be worth trying also.
Well, I think I'm going to call it a night, and enjoy my wife's just-baked banana bread. 05:24
:-)
gaal cool stuff :)
geoffb g'night, all
gaal bye, geoff
cwest www.openjsan.org/doc/CWEST/JSAN/0.0.../JSAN.html -- o/` rollin rollin rollin o/` 05:28
gaal if that's what i think it is, wow! 05:29
s/peaking/peeking/
cwest I think it could be. :-) 05:30
gaal gets ready for $work 05:33
theorbtwo Looks like it is.
cwest & # ready for bed (next week brings more jsan) 05:34
Odin-LAP Hmm. JSAN ... an interesting idea. 05:44
Next step, Ecma-262 implementation for Parrot? :p 05:45
theorbtwo Makes sense to me. 05:46
...not that I'm about to start working on it. 05:47
Odin-LAP wants one, but isn't really familiar enough with either Parrot or JavaScript to do it. :p 05:48
ingy hola 06:08
theorbtwo Hola, ingy. 06:10
ingy hi theorbtwo
theorbtwo All home and decompressed yet? 06:11
06:22 shachaf_ is now known as Shachaf
ta[i]nted can anyone help me with a general perl question? 06:45
Khisanth that would be more for #perl than #perl6 unless you are asking about Perl 6 :) 06:46
ta[i]nted i can't seem to speak in #perl 06:47
Khisanth checks logs 06:49
ta[i]nted i just need to connect to a ms sql database instead of mysql
Khisanth a non specific +q directed specifically at you ... 06:54
gaal|work rehi 07:22
QtPlatypus Why can't I create and call a sub called pack? 10:04
gaal|work worksfom
e
./pugs -e 'sub pack {say "hoo"}pack()' => "hoo" 10:05
QtPlatypus Ok. 10:06
gaal|work i think autrijus' plane just landed. 10:08
QtPlatypus Ok I see the problem. If you "use" a file with the same name as the sub it doesn't quite work. 10:11
gaal|work does the fully qualified name work? pack::pack() 10:12
autrijus fixed something to do with this then had to revert the fix
brb, time for the weekly reboot :) 10:13
svnbot6 r5155, qtplatypus++ | A start on Perl6 rules to parse Perl6. The rules to match littral 10:43
r5155, qtplatypus++ | numbers in code are here.
nothingmuch morning 10:45
nothingmuch 's flight didn't go so well after all
air canda also overbooked
so now I am back with malev airlines
in budapest
24 hours late, and not much more
the good news is that Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix is now mostly javascript free
except for the + and - buttons
and it supports stevan's display mode 10:46
darcs pull to satisfy your test graphing desires.
Boogie nothingmuch: still in Budapest, or at home? :) 10:54
svnbot6 r5156, qtplatypus++ | Updating the valid number recipie to make use of the "sel f hosting"
r5156, qtplatypus++ | rules in modules/Grammer/Perl6.pm
nothingmuch Boogie: i'll be in budapest for another 11 hours. 10:55
anybody want to donate some basic pod_coverage pleasing docs for Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix?
Boogie Then welcome to Hungary. But I think you're not happy with it. :)
nothingmuch you'll get about 1/10th authorship byh being added to an already long list
Boogie: well, i'm torn
i'm happy to be out of toronto (finally!)
but not happy to not be home yet 10:56
i don't really have a chance to see hungary itself, just the airport, and airports always suck
Boogie :(
nothingmuch it is note worthy that the cattle prodding in budapest is by far the most pleasant i have ever experienced
i think in recent years US is the most annoying, and frankfurt is the most unpleasant. 10:57
QtPlatypus ?eval sub foo { my class bar { } } bar.new() 10:58
evalbot6 *** No compatible subroutine found: "&eval" at -e line 8, column 5-72
nothingmuch Boogie: so what am I missing in hungary?
QtPlatypus Oh evalbots still deadd.
Boogie nothingmuch: well, it depends on what you're interested in. :) We have the Danube, and the Castle on the Buda side of it, the Parliament, Hero's Square. Nice, hundred+ years old buildings, etc. 11:00
We have good wines, too. 11:01
nothingmuch sighs longingly for scenic views and good food
the airport has sbarro
to make sbarro take 11:02
a. italian food
b. oil
c. more oil
and combine
Boogie Bah. :( I don't like airport food. It's very expensive, and usually just junk food.
nothingmuch right
that's why I'm having beer for lunch
Boogie Anyway, how did you get net connection? Finally they setup wifi there? 11:04
nothingmuch yup
there's t-mobile which want money
and pannongsm which have better reception, and are free
QtPlatypus Damn can't seem to create lexically scoped classes. (Reads A12 to see if there is supposed to be a way to do this)
nothingmuch QtPlatypus: in the hackathon larry explicitly said there should be, if my memory serves me well 11:05
then again, it could be the sleep deprevation
QtPlatypus finds it.
our class name {...}
I was expecting it to by my class name 11:06
nothingmuch uh, that should be 'my'
Boogie going to have lunch
nothingmuch bon apetite 11:07
Boogie thx
masak is reading the harrorth tutorial 11:31
nothingmuch++ # for the harrorth tutorial
nothingmuch: how well has writing the tutorial helped you learn haskell? 11:34
nothingmuch masak: i progressed a bit during the hackathon, but other ventures have been more demanding 11:36
i'll get back to it soon 11:37
the next step is taking a forth machine, written almost completely in forth
and support it in haskell
thus forcing haskell into an either lower level scenario, and learning more
anyway, i need to find a power outlet
bbiab
masak nothingmuch: i'm looking to learn haskell in order to be able to contribute more to pugs code 11:38
and trying to find the shortest path between where i am and haskell knowledge
nothingmuch outlet found 11:43
masak wb 11:45
nothingmuch: i think your approach (implementing something) is a sound way to learn a language
thing is, i don't know enough about haskell to know what is a good problem to attack 11:46
nothingmuch masak: it's been working well so far 11:48
for me
haskell has been too pure and theoretical
i could go through the tutorials
get all the excercises right 11:49
and in the end i still won't feel like i've learned anything
pdcawley_ There's definitely something about having a 'real' project for getting your learning onto a higher level isn't there? 11:51
s/'//g
masak pdcawley_: yes. question is, what? 11:53
i want something which is small enough to manage
but not trivial
is it a good idea to write games in haskell?
nothing fancy, just tic-tac-toe or something... 11:54
pdcawley_ Sudoku solver?
masak googles for sudoku 11:55
pdcawley_: good idea 11:56
gaal|work hey, nm, welcome halfway home! 12:00
nothingmuch hola gaal|work 12:28
masak i have concluded that the difference between haskell and other difficult subjects is that in haskell, i can't tell the difference between understanding and not understanding something 12:44
lumi I often find myself in an understanding superposition 12:45
masak lumi: i think that's where i am too now 12:47
between understanding and not understanding
i don't dare collapse the wavefunction, though
from nothingmuch's tutorial: "It's all really some seemingly pointless ping pong." i like that, it describes what's going on in my head when i read 06.kwid 12:52
nothingmuch how far along are you? 12:56
masak nothingmuch: i just read this "(Reader r) >>= f = Reader $ \e -> (runReader (f (r e))) e"
i'm getting scared :) 12:57
nothingmuch ah
that is good stuff.
masak is haskell defined by humans?
nothingmuch it's important to keep in mind that the first >>= in a reader action is the one that returns the function
the rest is chained
yes, crazy ones
masak :)
i'll keep that in mind when reading 12:58
nothingmuch seen chromatic 13:12
jabbot nothingmuch: chromatic was seen 3 days 7 hours 5 minutes 44 seconds ago
nothingmuch eep
pdcawley_ So, what does that do/define? 13:13
masak fwiw, i can see that autrijus' patch simplifies things 13:16
meppl when is somebody there who can/wants repair the broken &eval and &open? :/ 13:18
gaal|work meppl: see topic 13:19
you can work around that by putting 'use Prelude' at the top of your code 13:20
you'll need Prelude.pm in your @*INC (not there by default)
the real fix would involve -CPugs
hope that helps :)
masak seen autrijus 13:21
jabbot masak: autrijus was seen 1 days 3 hours 28 minutes 4 seconds ago
meppl oh i surveyed it
gaal, thx 13:22
gaal|work np
nothingmuch needs volunteers 13:26
scook0 nothingmuch: volunteers for what? 13:30
nothingmuch better docs for Test::TAP::HTMLMatroix 13:31
new UNIVERSAL::isa on cpan, chromatic++ 13:33
Khisanth nothingmuch: anyway to keep the [+/-] aligned with the t/test.t ?
nothingmuch uh, yes
make a rowspan for t/test.t and so forth
but i was avoiding that intentionally
Khisanth the moving thing was a bit confusing :)
nothingmuch since in the white space (notice there is an empty cell) a distinguishing mark for the result should be displayed
like 'Windows', 'Linux', etc
or version numbers, to display the progress of a project over time 13:34
nothingmuch wonders if it's the first or second time he's uploaded a module from budapest airport
search.cpan.org/~drolsky/ 13:44
(drolsky|autarch)++ 13:45
wonderful modules
hola lucs 14:26
lucs Hey hey nothingmuch. 14:30
I saw you popped in to magnet#perl earlier, and that reminded me about this channel :)
nothingmuch magnet? 14:33
irc.perl.org?
lucs Yes.
nothingmuch ah 14:34
nothingmuch was searching for chromatic
lucs I built a recent perl6 on Friday. The last one I had built was dated from the end of March. 14:35
There was an amazong amount of work done!
amazing too!
nothingmuch yup =)
nothingmuch had a friend who used to say o-mazing 14:36
woot! battery is charged, minicpan is synced, svk pull has finished
i'm off, i need to move out of this chair 14:37
clkao :)
nothingmuch search.cpan is updating very quickly nowadays. 14:38
Aankhen`` ?eval $?PUGS_VERSION 15:57
evalbot6 *** No compatible subroutine found: "&eval" at -e line 8, column 5-34
Aankhen`` O_O
? $?PUGS_VERSION
OK, OK, I give up. 15:58
Hi.
Hiya iblech. :-D 16:02
iblech Aankhen``! Welcome back! :)
Aankhen`` Thanks!
[21:27:38] <Aankhen``> ?eval $?PUGS_VERSION
[21:27:39] <evalbot6> *** No compatible subroutine found: "&eval" at -e line 8, column 5-34
What did I miss? :-)
iblech eval() doesn't work ATM, because the Prelude doesn't work ATM, because we're trying to precompile it, but pugscc doesn't work 100% correctly 16:03
Aankhen`` Ah.
Oh well.
Er, wait. 16:04
iblech Anyway, we're on r5156 currently
Aankhen`` Does that mean the interactive shell is broken?
Hmm... just 400 commits? :-P
nothingmuch hola iblech 16:05
stevan hey nothingmuch
iblech No, the interactive shell works, as it doesn't use eval(), but the internal Haskell equivalent
nothingmuch hey stevan
Aankhen`` Hiya nothingmuch.
stevan hey iblech, we missed you at the hackathon
Aankhen`` iblech >> Ah, okay.
nothingmuch did you see your summary view?
Aankhen`` I shall wait for Pugs to compile in that case.
nothingmuch Aankhen``: hi ho!
Aankhen`` nothingmuch >> Diggity, too! What's shakin'?
nothingmuch Aankhen``: budapest airport is expensive
Aankhen`` Awww. 16:06
nothingmuch $10 for 2 bottles of water, 1 bottle of ice tea
Aankhen`` That sucks.
nothingmuch i was going to kick the lady in the face, but then I realized I don't have the strength
Aankhen`` Tsk, tsk.
nothingmuch (mental, physical, psychological)
Aankhen`` I had an epiphany while away. 16:07
I now understand binary (though slowly). :-D
Man, there's so much stuff I want to try out and port and work on and blah blah...
nothingmuch binary? as in 010101?
svnbot6 r5157, iblech++ | Usual svn props and EOLs at EOFs added to modules/, lib/, t/, ext/, docs/, and src/.
Aankhen`` 01 0101, yeh.
svnbot6 r5158, iblech++ | * Made "pugs -MFoo file.p6" work (previously, file.p6 wasn't executed).
r5158, iblech++ | * Added a test for this to t/pugsrun/10-dash-uppercase-m.t.
nothingmuch ah, that's easy
Aankhen`` shrugs. 16:08
nothingmuch all you need is practice
Aankhen`` I had trouble getting my head around it.
nothingmuch that's the hard part nowadays
fun practice:
my $x = 10;
my $y = 20;
$x = $x ^ $y;
$y = $x ^ $y;
$x = $x ^ $y;
$x == ?
$y == ?
Aankhen`` Later, perhaps I'll try that out... 16:09
Right now, I need to catch up on things.
nothingmuch have fun!
Aankhen`` Heh, thanks.
BTW, does three-way binding exist?
nothingmuch three way binding?
Aankhen`` my $foo = "foo"; my $bar = "bar"; my $baz = "baz"; $foo := $bar; $bar := $baz; 16:10
nothingmuch hmm
i doubt that means what yuou'd expect
Aankhen`` I wrote out a bunch of different cases.
I was just wondering.
nothingmuch := is runtime assignment of containers
$foo = 10;
the process is:
resolfe the name '$foo'
find it's container 16:11
call the 'scalar_store' method on it, with the argument that is the RHS
:= otoh:
$foo := $bar;
resolve '$foo'
resolve '$bar'
point the name '$foo' to the container resolved from '$bar'
Aankhen`` Right... 16:14
nothingmuch so if you say '$foo := $bar; $bar := $baz;
then $foo is a name for the container containing "bar"
and both $bar and $baz are names for the container containing "baz" 16:15
Aankhen`` Ah.
nothingmuch my butt hurts 16:23
nothingmuch considers finding a chair
theorbtwo Mine hurt for /days/ after going canooing, nm. 16:28
(It was fun anyway.)
nothingmuch theorbtwo: bah, you need to go out more 16:49
cwest nothingmuch: How'd the js hacks turn out? 16:56
nothingmuch nothingmuch.woobling.org/example.html
pretty good
js minimized 16:57
the initial view is css
cwest cool
Aankhen`` Whoa... 17:22
`pugs -CPIR -e 1` sure creates a lot of code.
svnbot6 r5159, Stevan++ | Tree : starting porting the Tree::Visitor modules for sri; they are currently untested (I am building a new pugs right now); I will try to get them tested and running in the near future 17:32
gaal rehi 18:07
nothingmuch, in-transit-p? 18:09
nothingmuch gaal - i can't find calling card info in hungary
i need you to call my dad, and make sure he makes the taxi come to the airport
3:45
july 4
obra nothingmuch: I thought you had a direct flight?
nothingmuch malev flight 214
obra: overbooked again 18:10
=(
gaal sure, number?
nothingmuch 08-651-2264
gaal k, his name?
nothingmuch gaal++
obra nothingmuch: ! did they give you something else special?
nothingmuch Menachem
obra: a voucher for flights in air canada
obra Heh.
nothingmuch good for a whole year (wow)
gaal 3:45 morning here, yes? yaani halayla?
ani mekave?
nothingmuch yes
i hope so too =) 18:11
wow, you're such a lifesaver!
gaal calling
nothingmuch mui mui grazie
gaal however, the machine answered
nothingmuch eek 18:12
gaal shall i call again later or leave a message?
nothingmuch alternatives: 08-6461549 (office),. 050-5-693-141
gaal lama ata lo lokeach monit mehasade? yesh kaele, ata yodea
nothingmuch 08-651-3522 (neighbors)
yes, i know, but this is cheaper for me, by like a whole lot
gaal k
nothingmuch worst case scenario i will take such a taxi
hola stevan_ 18:13
gaal nobody's answering in any of the numbers :) i'll keep trying. 18:14
nothingmuch ook!
08-651-0360 (more neighbors, fallback option)
050-420-1025 (sister) 18:15
0577-560-126 (very good friend, reliable, knows my family)
oh, incidentially i have the driver's number: 052-2-715-310 18:16
svnbot6 r5160, stevan++ | Perl6::MetaModel - adding a basic MethodTable class, future plans are to refactor all the method stuff in MetaClass to use this instead;
nothingmuch his name is david
but to avoid too much confusion, better proxy it
gaal he replied to your email 18:17
nothingmuch sillyness, i checked 2 mins ago
gaal please wait for the driver at stiematzki 18:18
nothingmuch okay
gaal say hi
nothingmuch gaal++
gaal david says you may need to wait for him up to 15 minutes in the shop 18:19
and your dad will probably be up when you get home.
nothingmuch okies
obra irc++
gaal++
nothingmuch yeah, yet another 40 hours w/o sleep... =/
gaal wow, nm, your family is now reachable in perpetuity
so are your neighbors
and your friends
nothingmuch oh my
gaal and your driver
obra nothingmuch: decided what conferences you're going to use the vouchers for? 18:20
nothingmuch their privacy
violate
d
obra: oscon, ofcourse
obra nothingmuch: ooh
excellent. I'll see you next month :)
nothingmuch since i'm so filthy rich i can afford a ticket after the voucher deducts like, 30%
gaal and think about the people in stiematzky! they're innocent!
your dad says you should sue the company for the fare
nothingmuch i should 18:21
i'll talk to him when i get there
i want at least a day's pay in compensation
because that is what I lost
gaal whoa, they'll go bankrupt :)
nothingmuch yeah, i'm a hotshot exec
didn't you know i make $200 an hour? 18:22
gaal re: the html thingie - i hope in "hidden" mode the summary line actually contains red if one of the subtest instances is red
btw, i once implemented something like this widget in gtk
in c
nothingmuch gaal: the right side summary should be orange
it isn't yet, but that's a minor issue
furthermore, it's automatically expanded if there's any diff 18:23
gaal two days after i finished it someone committed such a widget to the main tree
nothingmuch so if one is all OK
and one is partially OK, both are displayed
what's the widget called?
gaal then it should be all hidden. od courtse
GTkDisclosure i think
s/T/t/
nothingmuch oh, for the +/- thing 18:24
gaal including a summary line and stuff, yea
h
so, is autrijus zonked out in taipei?
nothingmuch i think that he should have landed by now
eep, i need electricity
bbiab
gaal yes, i'd think some hours ago 18:25
obra gaal: I'm hoping he sleeps for 48 hours
nothingmuch gaal++ # thanks so much once more
gaal i'm hoping he fixes pugscc in one of his sweet sweet dreams
and that his fingers twitch 'ci'.
nm: de nada
ooh! iblech++ # r5158 18:29
cognominal_ when you delete directories in a svk checkout path, what is the manip to restore them? 18:39
gaal don't you just pull again? (not an svk user) 18:40
cognominal_ nope, without the .svn dirs, he is lost? 18:41
Aankhen`` See y'all in the morning 18:47
.
G'night.
nothingmuch there is a bunch of finish kids, with some parents 18:51
one is playing violin
and the rest are dancing
and everyone is clapping every time they finnish (no pun intended)
nothingmuch is amused and cheered up
gaal finnish eh? sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13887427
nothingmuch oh my! my weight in beer! i'll carry a woman for that 18:52
beer is too expensive
unless you go to YAPC::EU::2005, in braga, where the beer is 70 c 18:53
gaal i think it's the woman's weight in beer 18:54
cognominal_ for YAPC in Paris, the main complaint was the price of beers in basseries and pubs 18:55
gaal where was it, cognominal?
nothingmuch gaal: yes, you're right
paris silly
gaal duh
which quarter?
because food is generally cheaper in paris than in tel-aviv, or used to be when i was there 18:56
cognominal_ that was pretty central
gaal unless of course you buy orange juice in tuileries 18:57
cognominal_ CNAM, the school that hosted us. is near Republique
gaal is that in 11eme?
cognominal_ Paris is a massive tourist rip-off
gaal maybe 12th? 18:58
cognominal_ I try to figure out..
gaal if it were a little north from there it'd probably have been cheaper :)
cognominal_ you know pretty well Paris... 18:59
CNAM is 3ieme arrondissement
gaal not well enough :) i was visiting family there
cognominal_ next French Perl Workshop will probably at Cite' des sciences 19:00
that is north of Paris
like we did in 2004. conferences.mongueurs.net/2004/whatisit.html 19:01
skugg cognominal_: in case you didn't solve your problem: svk revert -R <dir>
cognominal_ I did it the violent way... rm -rf ~/.svk and starting over... 19:02
gaal: this year was nice, it was at Marseille: conferences.mongueurs.net/fpw2005/ 19:03
gaal sounds great, if only i knew french :)
nothingmuch: back-p?
cognominal_ if you know enough curses, you are set up
gaal heh, i'm sure i can learn some in time for the next workshop :) 19:04
cognominal_ gaal: but you are welcome at #perlfr on irc.perl.org
gaal i thought you'd say, though, that i just need to submit an $A++
cognominal_ #perlfr at freenode is not interestsing
you are welcome too, I maintain that page with BooK 19:05
and I am the guy who scores the nost $A++
gaal you guys are deliciously insane :)
clkao skugg! i thought you hate irc channels!
cognominal_ unlike BooK, I don't do pink unless obliged 19:06
skugg clkao: meh. i do.
clkao: sometimes I endure
:)
gaal $::(<A>)++; # lame, but p6 :) 19:07
cognominal_ gaal,what is your real name? I am on irssi and I am lost 19:09
nothingmuch ucfirst() 19:10
gaal $::(􏿽xABA􏿽xBB)++; same thing with "French" quotes, in honor of your language
Gaal Yahas
hey, i think i might have discovered a bug with this a-plus! 19:12
my $a; $::("a")++ should find a package-scoped $a, not a lexical :)
obfuscation is so important to the development of a language.
cognominal_ I learn a lot about Perl5 doing $A++ 19:15
gaal the one called "here-in" is very nice 19:17
so are many others :)
cognominal_ hum, cut and paste does not work, I need to figure out out to do french quotes in emacs 19:18
J'y pense et puis j'oublie :(
gaal docs/quickref/unicode
are you cog on perlmonks? 19:19
cognominal_ nope, i am stefp... 19:20
gaal darn, i have to go now for a bit. see y'all later :)
cognominal_ but, I am not much active there anymore 19:21
gaal: your code calls &A,
gaal you need to say 'my $A' first
and then it works, erroneously
or say 'our $A', and then it should work correctly 19:22
when we have a non-strict mode, it should work too :)
but that mode isn't specced
cognominal_ :) 19:23
gaal i gotta go :) /me waves &
cognominal_ wihtout French quotes, it works...
I will post that one.
gaal cogniminal: the French-quotes one works for me 19:55
pelagic Hello World! 20:31
geoffb OK, completely off topic, but what the hell . . . 22:23
svnbot6 r5161, autrijus++ | * Rename YAPC.spork and merge it back to Apocalypse_Now 22:24
r5162, autrijus++ | * partially cleanup ChangeLog
r5163, autrijus++ | * recursive_polymorphism_and_type_inference: fix Haskell
r5163, autrijus++ | syntax and the corresponding Perl6 syntax
r5164, autrijus++ | * File::Spec - now that module system is there, we can't
r5164, autrijus++ | simply `require` File::Spec::(Unix|Win32) anymore; they
r5164, autrijus++ | have to be exported to File::Spec's caller.
r5165, autrijus++ | * repair `use_ok` to import to `caller().package`.
geoffb Is the proper phrase "in #perl6" or "on #perl6"?
geoffb editing his article . . .
obra Usually, on
geoffb Looks like I kicked svnbot6. :-)
thanks obra 22:25
meppl in ;)
in #perl6
geoffb oh dear
Something tells me that whichever one I choose, it will get changed by the editor 22:26
obra geoffb: give a full sentence?
geoffb Well, here's the last part:
"or ping me on |#sdlperl| on |irc.freenode.net| ."
meppl just think about what a channel is - a pipe or something 22:27
so, were on the end of the pipe ;)
geoffb But then when you are working on a system, you are "ssh'ed in", but "working on" 22:28
meppl hm
"in the chatroom" and "on the channel" 22:29
geoffb hmmm, I'd buy that.
meppl but i always say "im in #perl6" or so on - who cares
geoffb nodnod
It's just the kind of thing that bugs you when you're proofreading, you know? :-) 22:30
osfameron I'd say on #perl6 22:31
obra meppl: are you a native speaker? 22:32
meppl no, im german
obra *nod*
meppl my english isnt very good ;)
obra English prepositions get really weird. I can't blame you
geoffb obra, oh yeah, I second that. 22:33
I used to think I had a pretty good handle on English. Then I discovered it's basically a mess (and not entirely in the good way)
skugg would probably use 'on irc' but 'in #foo'
but then I'm not a native either. although, I think that's often an advantage; we've had to actually _learn_ the grammar... 22:34
geoffb I'm almost thinking that it reads best as "in #foo on net.work", just for flow reasons. Since there's debate about the first preposition, flow might win
svnbot6 r5166, autrijus++ | * Emit.PIR and AST.Scope: Do not derive the slow and bloaty
r5166, autrijus++ | `Read` typeclass anymire
r5167, autrijus++ | * AST.Internals, CodeGen.PIR - deal with the fallout of
r5167, autrijus++ | not deriving from `Read`. also introduce `newHash` for incHV.
geoffb Clearly autrijus is rested.
svnbot6 r5168, autrijus++ | * qualified names now dealt with consistently; new and 22:44
r5168, autrijus++ | improved API moved to Pugs.Eval.Var:
r5168, autrijus++ | isQualified, packageOf, qualify, toPackage, toQualified,
r5169, autrijus++ | * `our` variables in packages now generate qualified symbols.
r5170, autrijus++ | * `eval` now pushes one caller frame, just as Perl5's eval does.
r5171, autrijus++ | * new trait, `is builtin`, for Prelude.pm which installs the symbol
r5171, autrijus++ | into the global namespace.
r5172, autrijus++ | * `caller` now counts the topmost "main" as one frame,
r5172, autrijus++ | just as Perl5's does.
r5172, autrijus++ | * @?INIT and @?CHECK are now renamed back to @* space.
r5173, autrijus++ | * first step toward transparent container: `ref` now
r5173, autrijus++ | reports the underlying value.
r5174, autrijus++ | * adjust various tests to reality. Chief among them is
r5174, autrijus++ | that latin1 >> and << should not be expected to work.
clkao massive autrijus attach 22:46
skugg i hope he's doing a push, and not comitting at that rate...
:)
geoffb Actually, I hope he *is* committing at that rate . . . it would mean he is well rested and back in turbo mode 22:49
Ah, misread the timestamps.
Yeah, 7 commits in 17 seconds would be a tad fast even for him. :-) 22:50
Juerd latin1 >> and << not to be made working?
Holy crap. I had more expected the unicode thingies to be delayed.
Juerd can't change all terminals to utf8 just yet. 22:51
Ah well... Let's hope the texas1 work :)
(Which so far they have)
SamB Juerd: you have secured a supplier for magical UTF-8 pixie dust to change hard terminals over?
Juerd SamB: No
SamB than why say "just yet"? 22:52
Juerd SamB: I'd be satisfied already if ssh + screen would give me utf8.
I have no hard terminals
SamB oh
SamB neither
obra Juerd: screen -U doesn't love you? 22:54
Juerd obra: No 22:55
obra: Not enough, that is. It works without ssh.
obra: And without screen
And without both ssh and screen
But not with the combination of ssh and screen
obra huh.
Juerd Funny
That is *exactly* what I keep thinking.
skugg Juerd: jerakeen.org/blog/2005/06/23/screen-irssi-utf8 -- does that work for you? 23:04
clkao you shou8ld ♨ if it works 23:06
Juerd That's what I did when I tried
clkao you should see ♨
Juerd Oh, I know how to test it.
I'm not unfamiliar with utf8 itself
mugwump clkao.♨ 23:08
osfameron is that a steaming pie? 23:09
mugwump it's the hot springs operator
skugg clkao: hm... I can see those... i just can't type them :( 23:10
(or, any non-ascii chars)
osfameron UNICODE OPERATORS MUST DIE!
clkao skugg: you need my friend's uniqe input mehtod 23:11
skugg clkao: yes, that too. but I can't even type non-ascii characters that I have on my keyboard into it 23:12
s/it/a terminal/
clkao skugg: go to bed, you have a nasty bug to solve tomorrow 23:14
mugwump screen really thwarts all attempts to use Unicode without its approval 23:16
skugg clkao: heh. night then. 23:19
Darren_Duncan I like Unicode operators and they should stay 23:44
oh, and Parrot 0.2.2 is up, so that prerequisite for Pugs is out of the way
obra chip++ # monthly releases 23:46

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