pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, smop: etc.) || We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by TimToady on 25 January 2008.
pugs_svn r19805 | lwall++ | [t/operators/assign.t] mods to new assignment semantics 02:00
r19806 | lwall++ | move assign.t into t/spec 02:01
meppl good night 02:12
pugs_svn r19807 | putter++ | misc/Ruby6: rmdir. Directory was empty, old, and never had files. 05:53
r19807 | putter++ | karhu: if you are still around and interested, let's talk. :)
pugs_svn r19808 | putter++ | putter/talk.txt: tweak. 06:00
r19809 | putter++ | src/perl6/STD_extract: created. The start of a script to take STD.pm, and extract its information into a more accessible form. 06:07
pugs_svn r19810 | lwall++ | [pugs] simplified assignment parsing 06:09
pugs_svn r19811 | lwall++ | [assign.t] cut-n-paste errors 07:33
pugs_svn r19812 | ruoso++ | [smop] First major milestone achieved!!!! Stage 0 SMOP finished. No memory leaks, no valgrind dected errors, ALL TESTS PASSING. 10:59
moritz_ ruoso++ indeed 11:00
@karam ruoso
lambdabot Maybe you meant: karma karma+ karma-
moritz_ @karma ruoso
lambdabot ruoso has a karma of 231
pbuetow @karma pbuetow 11:04
lambdabot You have a karma of 0
pbuetow :P
i used to have a karma of 1 11:05
moritz_ pbuetow: you need to commit a bit more ;)
pbuetow :(
moritz_ perhaps lambdabot lost its information
@karma audreyt
lambdabot audreyt has a karma of 115
moritz_ @karma moritz
lambdabot moritz has a karma of 186
pbuetow yes can be
pugs_svn r19813 | ruoso++ | [smop] when destroying the interpreter using the interpreter prototype, make sure to do a goto(false) and a runloop before. This seems to be a bug in the stackfull implementation used to destroy the stackless interpreter. 11:20
ruoso starting to wonder how p6opaque should look like in smop... 11:41
cognominal_ is there a pragma to promote pairs of slurpy hash to behave as lexicals as a temporary mesure before changing the signature and adding them as named parameter or as a way to avoid overcrowding the signature. 15:22
cognominal_ Maybe that deserve a dedicated twigil 15:22
moritz_ uhm
that's too fast for me 15:23
cognominal_ ??
moritz_ show us a line of code
what do you want to achieve?
cognominal_ sub toto (*%f) { ... shitload of %f<> } 15:25
versus
moritz_ so you want slurpy named parameters?
pugs: sub a(%f) { say %f.perl } a(:foo(bar)); 15:26
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: ("foo",Ann (Pos (MkPos "/tmp/RUKg9GtJ6c" 1 34 1 37)) (App (Var "&bar") Nothing []))␤ at /tmp/RUKg9GtJ6c line 1, column 27-39␤]
moritz_ pugs: sub a(%f) { say %f.perl } a(foo => 'bar');
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: ("foo",Ann (Pos (MkPos "/tmp/T6fDU03IUp" 1 36 1 41)) (Val (VStr "bar")))␤ at /tmp/T6fDU03IUp line 1, column 27-42␤]
cognominal_ subu toto(*%f) { $+a } # + would be the wtwigil 15:28
toto( a => 1 );
Tene pugs: sub a(*%f) { say %f.perl } a(foo => 'bar');
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[{("foo" => "bar"),}␤]
cognominal_ that would avoid to deal wit the hash
moritz_ I think that's too much of a shortcut 15:29
Tene's solution sounds good
cognominal_ but would not conflict with other names
moritz_ anyway, the idea is not all that bad
cognominal_ see the module JQuery translated in Perl6 15:30
moritz_ $^<identifier> are for list args, so $<other twigil><identifier> could be named args
cognominal_ the params hash everywhere is just structural code
Tene which hash? %_?
nice idea 15:31
moritz_ pugs: sub f { say %_.perl } f(:a(b))
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤ Unexpected "."␤ expecting "::"␤ Variable "%_" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤ at /tmp/jQQZQxd5qk line 1, column 15␤]
Tene pugs: sub f { say %_.perl } f(:a<b>) 15:32
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤ Unexpected "."␤ expecting "::"␤ Variable "%_" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤ at /tmp/4xnAoeuiZ5 line 1, column 15␤]
cognominal_ I am rereading the synopsis so I may miss obvious things
moritz_ re JQuery translated in Perl6, do you have a link anywhere?
cognominal_ no, I am just playing with the idea 15:33
but get the original JQuery perl module and you will et the idea
it is full of $my->{param}{remote} = 0 if ! defined $my->{param}{remote} ; 15:34
where $my->{param} whould be a slurpi hash in Perl6
moritz_ do you use $my as self? 15:35
cognominal_ no in that code $my is not self
moritz_ can you name a particular method that you'd like to look me at?
cognominal_ any methods with $my->{param} 15:36
they are all over the place in the JQuery/*.pm modules
moritz_ why not just declare them as formal parameters? 15:37
it's a very good way to make the methods self-documenting
cognominal_ "> is there a pragma to promote pairs of slurpy hash to behave as lexicals as a temporary mesure before changing the signature and adding them as named parameter or as a way to avoid overcrowding the signature."
moritz_ well, the answer is "no", I guess 15:38
cognominal_ I don't deny they can make formal parameter but they may be too numerous to be of any interest
moritz_ but overcrowed signatures are a design problem, not a language problem 15:38
[particle] %my{param} // 0
%my{param} //= 0
cognominal_ the design is out of the scope of Perl here, this is jquery 15:39
moritz_ hmmm
well, perhaps TimToady picks up your idea
cognominal_ this is just in idea, now it is in my log :)
moritz_ or you'll have to life a with either crowded formal parameters or a slurpy hash 15:40
[particle] i don't understand what you're trying to do. flatten the hash?
cognominal_ I want to avoid to dereference explictely a hash
moritz_ [particle]: cognominal_ wants something like like $^a, $^b for named arguments
cognominal_ some twigil would say me this variable comme from the slurpy hash. 15:41
[particle] ok, i see.
cognominal_ I don't care about the name of the slurpy hash so why should I other with it everywhere
a twigil seems nicer that naming the slurpy hash in the body of the sub 15:42
[particle] does $%hash have meaning in perl 6 today?
that is, can '%' be the twigil 15:43
moritz_ well, the idea is appealing because of the symmetry between named and positional args
[particle] yes, agreed.
moritz_ thought of $|name, for no particular reason
cognominal_ appealing? english fails me here
moritz_ "looks nice to have" 15:44
cognominal_: what's your native language?
cognominal_ french
and I am too lazy to reach the dict of my mackbook, shame on me
moritz_ appealing = attractive 15:45
in good approximation ;)
[particle] shame on us for writing in the *other* international language ;) 15:45
moritz_ [particle]: like, uhm, Spanish? ;)
[particle] i meant chinese
cognominal_ we should go esperanto to be on equal footing :) 15:46
I suppose the asiatic would disagree
moritz_ actually chinese is spoken by many people, but not (officially) in many countries 15:47
cognominal_ kudo for TimToady and co. The synopsis are not easu reading but very compelling. Good progress here. 15:48
s/easu/easy/
rhr_ hard to find a new twigil. the ones taken are . ! + ? * = ^ and : $ @ % & / < _ ( can't be used there either, afaics 15:51
moritz_ so | is still free? 15:52
cognominal_ there are so much twigils
what's the + for?
rhr_ | might work, but it looks a lot like !
moritz_ yes
rhr_ + is for context vars
cognominal_ amazing, with many degrees of liberties added, Perl6 is already running out of ASCII chars 15:54
[particle] we still have ` but it's (unofficially iirc) reserved for users 15:55
i suppose $'foo suggests a named var 15:56
cognominal_ back reading the synopses to get some lagunes in the see of my ignorance 15:58
[particle] ah, "lagoons in the sea". 15:59
hey, wow! i understand french :) 16:00
cognominal_ arf, that does not translate in english
cognominal_ lagune is more like a bank of sand 16:00
[particle] i knew what you meant, but yeah, lagoon must not be the translation for lagune 16:01
cognominal_ and lacune is lacuna in English
[particle] more like "sand bar"
pugs_svn r19814 | putter++ | src/perl6/STD_extract: more constructs recognized. 16:29
TimToady $:foo is actually available, i think 16:38
moritz_ pugs: sub f { say $:foo.perl } f(:foo('bar')) 16:41
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤ Unexpected ":foo"␤ expecting "::"␤ at /tmp/B9Zt5LCYRz line 1, column 14␤]
moritz_ oh, I misunderstood "available" ;) 16:42
cognominal_ TimToady owns the colon :) 16:48
moritz_ all your colon are belong to us 16:50
TimToady now if you really want to start confusing people, write foo(:$:foo) 16:52
[particle] ::('$')(:$:_) 17:04
cognominal_ so we will have the visual equivalent of tongue twisters in Perl6 17:06
any sufficient rich language cannot avoid that 17:07
ton thé t'a t'il oté ta toux :) -> has you tea got rid you of your cough 17:09
moritz_ cognominal_: "simple things should look simple, weird things should look weird" ;) 17:13
pugs_svn r19815 | lwall++ | Fixed smartlink. 17:18
cognominal_ following on the implication of my twigil nad my study of JQuery , this may means that a object may have optionnal attributes declared as $:a and that a constructor may have a slurpy hash too. 17:39
s/nad/and/
I can't see the ramification
ho, that can't do, that should be $.:a , arf multiletter twigils :( 17:42
pugs_svn r19816 | rhr++ | [Unicode.pm] delegate encoding to pack/unpack 17:49
[particle] thrigils! 17:50
TimToady all attributes are optional already :)
at least, everything derived from Object is already a "maybe" type
moritz_ recursive countable n-igils!
[particle] you can't do $.^a so i don't see how $.:a would make sense 17:51
pugs_svn r19817 | rhr++ | [assign.t] some more cun-n-paste errors 17:52
cognominal_ anyway I find that JQuery is a good yardstick for conversion in Perl6 17:54
maybe, Perl6 should be called haskell :)
moritz_ no, its syntax is much prettier 17:56
TimToady significant whitespace, ugh! :P 17:57
[particle] i can't believe you chose to steal *that* from python. of all things....
:P
cognominal_ python predates haskell? I don't think so 17:58
TimToady yes, but at least I'm sneaky about it
cognominal_ ho, I was confused 17:59
TimToady gee, an unclear antecedent to a pronoun, fancy that...
reminds me I should go read PerlMonks this morning...
ruoso just received the result for the grant proposal on smop with 6 votes no, 2 abstentions and no vote for yes... it appears that the perl foundation is not very much -Ofun oriented... one of the comments: "I think there is no need in more engines for Perl 6. I think that ONE is required, and people should work on it. If Parrot is the one more developed, I think we should grant parrot projects;" 18:04
pugs_svn r19818 | lwall++ | Added : twigil
[particle] ruoso: that's a real shame. imo the problem is that the grants committee is full of p5 folk
ruoso m completely against new runtimes. Let's not reinvent every 18:05
wheel at once.
* Not yet another Perl 6 compiler/runtime/implementation/whatever!
There are way to many already.
these are some other comments
moritz_ jerks 18:06
that contradicts the "not one official perl6 implementation" idea 18:07
[particle] apparently the grants committee hasn't read the perl 6 spec.
TimToady well, tpf should really be named "The Parrot Foundation", I suspect
[particle] or, chooses not to agree with it.
ruoso it's sad, specially now that I've finished the stage 0 of smop 18:08
TimToady well, not many people actually get paid to do any of this, alas...
ruoso and I was counting on the grant to deliver more time to it
moritz_ ruoso: did you apply for a "real" grant, or for a perl 6 microgrant? 18:20
ruoso real grant
ruoso later & 18:23
diakopter wonders what TPF is planning to do with all of its money in the bank 18:24
[particle] we may never find out.
diakopter I suppose endowing its own overhead is not out of the question
cognominal_ can one write my $a, $b meaning the Perl5 my ($a, $b)? 18:34
moritz_ pugs: my $a, $b = 2, 3; say $a, '|', $b 18:35
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤ Unexpected " ="␤ expecting "::"␤ Variable "$b" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤ at /tmp/nqk8ggfLuK line 1, column 10␤]
cognominal_ ok 18:36
moritz_ cognominal_: don't take pugs as a spec ;)
cognominal_: btw your proposal of a new twigil has been accepted (in case you don't read p6l) 18:37
cognominal_ I hope this is a good idea
[particle] indeed, it is. it's in the spec now :)
cognominal_ well, Larry is always right ... even if he changes his mind 18:38
moritz_ honestly, I don't think it's all that usefull, but it's certainly not harmful, and nice to have ;) 18:39
cognominal_ at least, it proves that I understant the general Perl6 zeitgeist 18:40
TimToady Or I suppose we could rename it the Turf Protection Foundation... 19:14
cognominal_ buzz is entered in the judiciary french language thx to the suite of our president and our first lady against Ryanair :) 19:22
cognominal_ even though we have (had?) a low against the gratuitous use of hte english language 19:23
...has entered
moritz_ not just against English, IIRC
cognominal_ yea, but English is the perceived menace. 19:24
moritz_ the enemy, just across the channel ;) 19:25
[particle] and the pond :)
cognominal_ anyway. thx to the writer strike, no more american series and movies will protect us 19:26
for the perfid Aliban, that's another story 19:27
Albion! 19:28
[particle] checks if the 'self' keyword is in STD.pm 19:41
ah, there it is. 19:42
however, some uses of self in the grammar itself use a sigil, others don't
moritz_ it shouldn't have one, I guess 19:43
unless you assign it, or use it in my_methods($self: $other, $ags)
[particle] ok, actually it all looks good
my $self = qlang(...)
that's the only use with sigil 19:44
jnthn [particle]: lwall++ added term:self at the weekend; I put it into the Rakudo grammar, a tad differently. See comment. 19:47
[particle] fab. yep, we need to put those in the grammar a bit differently since we don't have protoregexes yet 19:48
DarkWolf84 so 'self' will be part of the grammar 19:49
jnthn Well, for other reasons too...
DarkWolf84 ? 19:50
jnthn [particle]: Not only did I ad the parse rule, I added an action too, so self actually works. ;-)
DarkWolf84: Yes, the self keyword/function is in the grammar.
moritz_ rakudo: class Foo { method bar { say self } }; 19:51
exp_evalbot RESULT[Null PMC access in find_method()␤current instr.: '_block10' pc 19 (EVAL_10:10)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;eval' pc 789 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:459)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;evalfiles' pc 1059 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:585)␤called from Sub
..'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1242 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir...
cognominal_ how would you translate that in Perl6? ref($c) =~ /\S/ 19:52
jnthn Hmm...
cognominal_ and $object.can('get_css') ; 19:53
moritz_ cognominal_: most ref($something) tests are now done with the Smart match operator
jnthn rakudo: class Foo { method bar { say "hi"; }; method baz { self.bar(); }; }; my $x = Foo.new(); $x.baz(); 19:54
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[hi␤]
wolverian why does it need to be in the grammar?
moritz_ so the first might be $c ~~ Object or something
cognominal_ that would mean $c is an instance of a subclass of Object, meaning any class 19:55
moritz_ cognominal_: $object.can('get_css') perhaps 'get_css' ~~ $object.HOW.methods # dunno if there's an easier way
cognominal_: aye
cognominal_: what you you like ref($c) =~ m/\S/ to mean?
wolverian $object.?get_css();
moritz_ wolverian: sounds much clearer ;) 19:56
cognominal_ this is in JQuery, test if the var is an obj or a string 19:56
wolverian you'd probably use signatures in perl 6 19:56
multi foo (Str $bar) { ... } multi foo (Object $bar) { ... } # or so 19:57
moritz_ cognominal_: $c ~~ Str ?
cognominal_ I don't know if I will go anywhere playing with JQuery but I lean a log of Perl 6
wolverian though certainly you can do it in one method too. it's just a bit ugly, given that multimethods are so natural.
cognominal_ yea
"I learn a lot of Perl6"
I can't type on this macbook keyboard and I don't know anymore how to type on any other keyboard :( 19:58
$object.?get_css(); calls get_css() if it exists but the code involves has a rupture of sequence if get_css is not defined so here this is not the right way 20:02
[particle] jnthn++ # that is SO COOL! 20:02
moritz_ so who's going to the German Perl Workshop next week? 20:03
cognominal_ I wish I spoke german 20:04
but French don't speak anything but french 20:05
moritz_ it takes place in my home town and I have vacations, so I'll surely go there
cognominal_ where is that?
moritz_ Erlangen
close to Nürnberg, if you happen to know that 20:06
cognominal_ I know the Erlangen program thx to Felix Klein but not the town itself 20:07
jnthn moritz_: In a last minute change of plan - I will be there!
moritz_ jnthn: cool
jnthn cognominal_: Ich speaken kein Deutsch, but I'm gehen anyway. ;-) 20:08
[particle]: It's only a fancy way of writing say "hi"; ;-)
cognominal_ :)
[particle] jnthn: the madness is in the method :) 20:09
jnthn <groan>
jnthn Wonder why say self blows up... 20:10
moritz_ jnthn: perhaps it doesn't know how to stringify?
jnthn moritz_: Yeah, I think so too. 20:11
[particle] say $( self )
jnthn How do classes stringify?
[particle] i forget. need to check the spec 20:12
moritz_ according to their Str method ;)
moritz_ don't know what the default method is, though 20:12
[particle] what do the pugs tests say? 20:13
t/oo hasn't been moved to t/spec yet
jnthn The PIR that the compiler is generating looks sane, at least.
pugs: class Foo { method bar { say self; }; }; my $x = Foo.new(); $x.bar();
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[<obj:Foo>␤]
[particle] jnthn: it could call the parrot 'name' method 20:14
that looks like haskell underneath
jnthn class Foo { method bar { say self; }; }; 20:15
my $x = Foo.new(); $x.bar();
TimToady cognominal_: no, $object.?method merely returns undef if there is no such method
jnthn get_string() not implemented in class 'Foo'
cognominal_ thx
TimToady now if you try to use the value without checking it, then you could get an exception thrown
TimToady but I think you'll see a lot of $object.?method // "NONESUCH" 20:16
jnthn has been writing too much C#, and mis-read // as a comment there 20:17
TimToady there's a sense in which it is certainly less important than the mainline code
[particle] unsurprisingly, perl hasn't stolen much from C++ 20:18
jnthn :-)
TimToady it stole the idea of *not* putting const everywhere...
:)
wolverian "orelse" works pretty well there too
TimToady or would, if anyone implemented it yet 20:19
wolverian though for now I go "huh? where's the STM here?" when I see it
well, if I saw it...
jnthn orelse is to // what or is to ||?
wolverian yes 20:20
[particle] rakudo: my $x; say ($x orelse 'foo');
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '_block10' pc 28 (EVAL_10:15)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;eval' pc 789 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:459)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;evalfiles' pc 1059 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:585)␤called from Sub
..'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1242 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:676)...
TimToady mostly
it also captures the undefined value into $! for handiness
[particle] hrmm
TimToady which // doesn't 20:21
[particle] 'orelse' is in the rakudo opp 20:22
but infix:orelse doesn't seem to be implemented
jnthn Time to go do some $REAL_LIFE for a bit... & 20:23
wolverian I was going to look at it, but before pulling parrot I realised my git is at least a week old, so now I'm rebuilding git.. I'll probably get distracted by something else in a few minutes
TimToady andthen :) 20:24
[particle] don't fear the yak.
TimToady andthen andthen andthen andthen
wolverian butfirst 20:25
TimToady butwait! 20:26
[particle] whatif
wolverian eventhough
[particle] noway
spinclad_ pleasedon't 20:30
spinclad_ inasmuchaswhich 20:32
wolverian isn't that cobol?
spinclad_ insofaras it's anything, maybe
whereas 20:33
andyet
[particle] pleasepleaseplease 20:35
spinclad_ [puppyeyes]
moritz_ actually eiffel has the "implies" keyword, where "a implies b" is (not a) or b
spinclad_ ew, how boolean! 20:36
moritz_ actually it's pretty useful - eiffel is very strong on design by contract, and that makes it more readable in some places 20:36
[particle] parrot has complete boolean logic support, including xand 20:38
a and b, but not both 20:39
spinclad_ [useful] oh, definitely -- i just think of when a isn't (known to be) true or false (yet).
spinclad_ such as a protoobject of its type 20:39
spinclad_ 'a implies b' when a's truthspace is inside b's 20:41
moritz_ that's a perfect exercise to define such an op at runtime
spinclad_ when b is ineverycase at least as true as a 20:43
TimToady well, "implies" is easily expressed in Perl 6 as !?> :) 21:00
moritz_ and _so_ readable 21:01
TimToady well, it's like math's ->, with the unexplanatory - replace with the elements of logic ? and !
*replaced
spinclad idle question: is ?Bool just == Bool? (that is, boolifying the generic Boolean) (and not true or false, like most ?<expr>) 21:04
TimToady 'course, we haven't actually defined ?> as boolean right shift yet...
and you can't use a ! metaoperator on anything that isn't a chaining comparator... 21:05
spinclad i thought boolean right shift would be ?>>
(as opposed to >>?>>) 21:06
TimToady maybe that means ?| and ?& and ?^ really belong at the comparator level, not the additive level
no, we reduced them to single > and < to avoid confusion with Texas quotes
spinclad and gain confusion with comparison... 21:07
TimToady troonuff
but that's just mental confusion, not parser confusion
spinclad but Texas quotes are deeper parsering
right 21:08
ruoso TimToady, Undef isa Object? 22:25
moritz_ pugs: say Undef ~~ Object
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&Undef"␤ at /tmp/5yOxIcjRtn line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤]
moritz_ pugs: say undef ~~ Object 22:26
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[1␤]
ruoso kp6: say Undef ~~ Object
exp_evalbot r19818: OUTPUT[no method 'APPLY' in Class 'Undef'␤ at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 345␤ KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::MOP::__ANON__('HASH(0x824be54)', 'APPLY') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 169␤
..main::DISPATCH('HASH(0x824be54)', 'APPLY') called at compiled/perl5-kp6-mp6/lib/Kin...
ruoso the thing is... is it right? 22:26
ruoso I've been thinking on how to implement p6opaque and the classes in smop... 22:28
in theory, a class is "Undef" with add ons... 22:29
like
my $foo = Undef;
$foo.^add_method(name => 'bar', code => $baz); 22:30
[particle] why are you capitalizing? looking for a basic type called 'Undef'?
or the value 'undef'?
ruoso well... as per S02, "undef" is a function, not a value
[particle] ok, nullary function, like self.
<term> 22:31
ruoso yep... the value is of the Undef type
there's no "native undef"
Undef is a class like any other...
except that it returns false to "defined" 22:32
[particle] ah, i see in S02
TimToady Object is the most generic Undef class
but all "classes" in p6 are protoobjects, and hence typed versions of undef
one could argue that undef === Object should return true
[particle] my Undef $x = 2; 22:33
ruoso so, taking a copy of undef and adding methods is a sane way of creating a class...
TimToady well, but p6 really has no classes in that sense, it has protoobjects and metaclasses
ruoso yeah... yeah... 22:34
TimToady class Foo is already the undef you
want
ruoso I know... but I'm not talking about syntax... 22:35
TimToady pugs: class Foo {}; defined(Foo)
ruoso but about runtime
exp_evalbot RESULT[Bool::False]
ruoso how one would do it by reflection code
s/reflection/introspection/
ruoso wonders why java uses "reflection"
TimToady well, more or less the way Moose and MO handle it 22:36
ruoso have to take a look in MO looking for that in specific... 22:37
TimToady you should probably mostly be talking to nothingmuch and stevan at this point
I ignore everything that goes on behind the .HOW curtain :) 22:38
ruoso but isn't this something that should work across implementations?
I mean... shouldn't .HOW have an API 22:39
TimToady the basic methods need to be interoperable, yes
and nothingmuch's MO is pretty much what everyone should be aiming for
ruoso ok... just before I get in deep MO again... 22:40
pugs_svn r19819 | putter++ | src/perl6/STD.pm: normalize a couple of unusual { } indentations.
TimToady however, stevan's implementation of Moose is a solider implementation
TimToady but doesn't yet (I don't think) do Responder Interfaces quite MOish 22:40
I sure hope putter knows about cheat and metholate already... 22:41
but he seems to be scarce around here lately...
ruoso my $foo = Undef.clone(); $foo.^add_method(name => 'foo', code => $bar, signature => $sig); seems like a sane way of initializing a new anonymous class 22:42
TimToady s/Undef/Object/
there is no Undef type
ruoso hm? 22:43
TimToady there is no Undef type
ruoso lost now
TimToady the type of "undef" is Object
Object is the most generic undefined type 22:44
ruoso ah.. ok.. Undef is simply anything that returns false to "defined"
[particle] s/putter/mncharity/ 22:44
TimToady was doing that already
pugs_svn r19820 | putter++ | src/perl6/STD_extract: Additional constructs recognized (feature complete?). Command-line controlled output. Todo and questions. 22:45
TimToady still scarce
TimToady sure looks to me like he's reinventing cheat/metholate 22:46
TimToady maybe it needs to be reinvented, but still... 22:46
maybe I'm just irritated because I can no longer type "vi S<tab>" and get it to complete :) 22:48
Tene TimToady: what if you just press tab extra hard? 22:49
analog sensitivity in a keyboard would have some interesting uses...
Especially if integrated with an editor and a programming language. To refer to a global variable, type the name extra hard! 22:50
TimToady well, if the vibrations push down the shift and 8 keys simultaneously, it might just work 22:51
@seen mncharity 22:52
lambdabot I saw mncharity leaving #perl6 2d 17h 2m 24s ago, and .
Tene laughs and gets a funny look from a student.
ruoso pugs: class Foo { }; my $a = Foo.new(); say $a.HOW() === Foo.HOW() 23:04
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[1␤]
ruoso pugs: class Foo { }; say Foo.clone().HOW() === Foo.HOW() 23:05
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Pattern match failure in do expression at src/Pugs/Prim.hs:1351:4-14␤ at /tmp/p7DhvUJDth line 1, column 20 - line 2, column 1␤]
ruoso pugs: class Foo { }; my $a = Foo.clone(); say $a.HOW() === Foo.HOW(); 23:06
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Pattern match failure in do expression at src/Pugs/Prim.hs:1351:4-14␤ at /tmp/NhmBGOyUl0 line 1, column 19-35␤]
ruoso pugs: class Foo { }; my $a = Foo.clone; say $a.HOW() === Foo.HOW(); 23:07
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Pattern match failure in do expression at src/Pugs/Prim.hs:1351:4-14␤ at /tmp/aiSBJyXUvw line 1, column 19-33␤]
ruoso pugs: class Foo { }; my $a = Foo; my $b = $a.clone(); say $b.HOW() === Foo.HOW();
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** Pattern match failure in do expression at src/Pugs/Prim.hs:1351:4-14␤ at /tmp/oIMBXyhu2n line 1, column 32-47␤]
TimToady I don't believe pugs implements .clone, nor does it really quite implement .HOW 23:08
ruoso hmmm...
but do you think the way I'm going is sane? 23:09
ruoso if Foo.clone().HOW() !=== Foo.HOW(), then I can use it as a way to boot new classes 23:11
TimToady well, merely saying class {} ought to get you an anonymous class derived from Object 23:15
but puts doesn't do that
*pugs
ruoso sure... but again... I'm using p6 syntax here just for simplicity...
Limbic_Region pugs does an extraordinary amount considering it hasn't really been maintained for over a year
ruoso I'm talking about the runtime... or better... which code will be executed for "class { }"
TimToady I don't have an opinion on the subject, as long as it ends up with an anonymous class derived from Object 23:18
ruoso heh
Limbic_Region TimToady - are you following rakudo much? 23:26
TimToady pretty much 23:26
Limbic_Region have any feel for how much is implemented compared to pugs? 23:28
seems like many features that get implemented don't equate to more passing tests with spectest
ruoso rakudo: class Foo { }; my $a = Foo.clone; say $a.HOW() === Foo.HOW();
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Method 'clone' not found for invocant of class ''␤current instr.: '_block10' pc 9 (EVAL_9:8)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;eval' pc 789 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:459)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;evalfiles' pc 1059 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:585)␤called from Sub
..'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1242 (src/PCT/H...
TimToady we've only ported over a smattering of tests so far
Limbic_Region right 23:29
TimToady and I doubt they're always the simple ones :)
Limbic_Region which is why it is difficult for me to judge
since I am not following
source that is
ruoso kp6: class Foo { }; my $a = Foo.clone; say $a.HOW() === Foo.HOW();
exp_evalbot r19820: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 47, line 1 column 47:␤class Foo { }; my $a = Foo.clone; say $a.HOW() === Foo.HOW()␤ ^ HERE␤]
moritz_ I think it's far from pugs' feature completeness
ruoso kp6: my $a = Object.clone; say $a.HOW() === Foo.HOW(); 23:30
exp_evalbot r19820: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 35, line 1 column 35:␤my $a = Object.clone; say $a.HOW() === Foo.HOW()␤ ^ HERE␤]
TimToady It's probably closer to having a fast compiler, and the parts associated with that, but the rest isn't there yet
on the other hand, they're implementing something close to MO
TimToady it remains to be seen whether the subsurface structure is solid or rotten to support the superstructure... 23:33
jnthn TimToady: If you've an object and you stringify it, is there some default method that's called to get the string representation that you define in your class, and what should the default stringification of an object me?
Limbic_Region . o O ( .perl ? )
jnthn Or if I've missed the appropriate bit of the synonypis, just point me at it...
s/me/be/ 23:34
TimToady see S13:212 23:35
moritz_ .perl is the equivalent to Data::Dumper 23:35
TimToady method Str is export {...}
Limbic_Region moritz_ - let's hope not
moritz_ - more like, .perl is like Data::Dump::Streamer only better ;-) 23:36
moritz_ Limbic_Region: not in the litereal sense ;)
pugs: my $a = sub { }; say $a.perl
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[\sub :(@_) "$_" := "Scalar" #<Scalar:0xb7b1c380>␤ "@_" := "Array" #<Array:0xb7b1c378>␤ "&?ROUTINE" := "Sub" #<Sub:0xb6604df4>␤ "&?BLOCK" := "Sub" #<Sub:0xb6604df4> {"$_" := "Scalar" #<Scalar:0xb7270e78>␤ "@_" :=
.."Array" #<Array:0xb72d245c>␤ ...
jnthn TimToady: Thanks. 23:37
TimToady kp6: my $a = sub { }; say $a.perl
exp_evalbot r19820: OUTPUT[{ ... }␤]
TimToady hmm, that's kind of a misuse of ... there 23:38
ruoso www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ementation -- first sketches...
pugs_svn r19821 | putter++ | src/perl6/STD_extract: a minor start at regex pattern analysis. 23:39
ruoso any review on the above sketches are very much welcome 23:42
rakudo_svn r25542 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Tweaks to inheritance so now we can inherit from Bool, etc. 23:52
pugs_svn r19822 | lwall++ | [STD_extract] query to putter who is ignoring #perl6 :) 23:53

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