»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by Juerd on 28 August 2009.
00:09 beggars left 00:22 betterwosld joined 01:04 slava joined 01:13 dukeleto joined 01:21 [1]Limbic_Region joined 01:23 [1]Limbic_Region left
dukeleto seen fperrad 01:32
@seen fperrad
lambdabot I haven't seen fperrad.
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colomon rakudo: say (4 + 0i) ** 2; 01:46
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«16␤»
colomon rakudo: say (4 + 1i) ** 2;
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«17␤»
colomon rakudo: say 1i ** 2; 01:48
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon rakudo: say 1i ** 3;
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
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colomon rakudo: say abs(1i); 01:52
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon rakudo: say abs(4+1i);
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«4.12310562561766␤»
dukeleto rakudo: say (8i).roots(4) 02:00
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1.55377+0.643594i-0.643594+1.55377i-1.55377-0.643594i0.643594-1.55377i␤»
colomon rakudo: say +(4+1i) 02:01
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«4+1i␤»
colomon rakudo: say (4 + 1i).Num 02:02
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p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Complex'␤» 02:02
wayland76 @seen moritz_ 02:03
phenny wayland76: 28 Aug 12:20Z <pmichaud> tell wayland76 I think perl6 --version should report the actual version. But I don't know of a clean way to do that yet... patches welcome.
lambdabot moritz_ is in #perl6. I last heard moritz_ speak 1d 4h 45m 47s ago.
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TimToady moritz_ is out sailing till Sunday, I believe 02:22
colomon TimToady: Am I correct in assuming that operators like ** are intended to work with Complex? 02:27
TimToady why not?
colomon I don't think the spec mentions it, and I wanted to make sure the tests I've been writing are reasonable. 02:28
wayland76 Ok, thanks. I was just going to suggest a clarity improvement for his blog post, but it's not really important :)
TimToady certainly for integral powers it should work
dukeleto colomon: i wrote many spec tests for complex numbers, but you may have found some new bugs
colomon TimToady: There's no real reason they can't work for complex powers as well. I've got an implementation to do it, in fact, but it fails for mysterious (non-math, I think) reasons. 02:29
wayland76 Does that mean that »**« is a hyper power?
TimToady rakudo: say 1i ** 0.3
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
wayland76 In that case, I think we need a meta-operator called "super" :) 02:30
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colomon TimToady: yeah, it's just completely broken in current rakudo -- routinely returns incorrect results. 02:30
TimToady rakudo: say (1..10) «**» 2
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Non-dwimmy hyperoperator cannot be used on arrays of different sizes or dimensions.␤in Main (/tmp/dymW1j2irE:2)␤»
TimToady o_O 02:31
dukeleto see's a bunch of colored smoke
colomon rakudo: say (1..10 >>**>> 2
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near " (1..10 >>"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2550)␤»
colomon rakudo: say (1..10)>>**>> 2
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«149162536496481100␤»
wayland76 I'll give say an argument
TimToady funny it thinks <<**>> is non dwimmy 02:32
wayland76 rakudo: say "I'm going to punch your head!";
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«I'm going to punch your head!␤»
TimToady rakudo: say (1..10) <<**>> 2
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«149162536496481100␤»
TimToady no, only «**»
wayland76 Hmm. Is that a bug?
dukeleto rakudo: say (1i ) ** 2; 02:33
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady I'll bet there's a copy-paste error somewhere
tylerni7 the internets say anyone who knows how to be nice can help out with perl6, is this true?
dukeleto tylerni7: indeed it is
TimToady you also have to be nice, most of the time
colomon dukeleto: There are a lot of tests for Complex, but none for **.
tylerni7 I can do that mostly
dukeleto tylerni7: welcome! how would you like to help?
wayland76 tylerni7: use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39445 02:34
dukeleto colomon: do you have commit access to the spec test suite?
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colomon Yes. 02:34
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wayland76 tylerni7: Although masak has pointed out that the information in that link is open-ended, rather than closed-ended 02:34
colomon Do y'all reckon I should create S32-num/power.t? I don't see any tests for non-Complex **, either... 02:35
So far I've just been piggy-backing the Complex ** tests into complex.t.
tylerni7 I'm not sure what I'd be best at... I'm OK at perl 5, but I'd love to do whatever needs to be done that I can actually do? 02:36
dukeleto colomon: that is good :) S32-num/complex.t is very sparse
wayland76 tylerni7: That link will suggest various roles you could fill in the community
TimToady tylerni7: lots of ways to help out, depending
dukeleto colomon: do you want to add your examples as todo'ed test cases? 02:37
colomon dukeleto: That's what I've been thinking.
dukeleto colomon++
TimToady tylerni7: at minimum, you can tell us where our documentation sucks :)
wayland76 But it may also help to mention your skill-set. Can you also write C? Documentation? Or would you prefer to try writing real-world perl 6 and submitting bug reports? There are other options too, but those spring to mind at the moment
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wayland76 (afk &) 02:38
tylerni7 I think I'd probably be most useful doing bug reports or documentation
dukeleto colomon: you very well may hit some parrot bugs. The parrot Complex PMC is barely tested and has some bugs with NaN handling, at least
tylerni7 so uh yea, I guess I'd be best as a priest? 02:40
dukeleto tylerni7: you can run a smoke bot, which is an automated testing service that updates to the latest code and then submits test runs to a central server
colomon rakudo: sub iPower($a, $b) { exp($b * log($a)) }; say iPower(1i, 3.0);
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«NaNNaNi␤»
colomon versus
dukeleto tylerni7: we all fill many roles as we go further in our quest
tylerni7 ok sounds good
TimToady mostly we don't try to put people in boxes, so you can do whatever tickles your fancy
colomon rakudo: say exp(3.0 * log(1i));
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-1.83691e-16-1i␤»
TimToady as you can see, some people just like to torment rakudo in-channel 02:41
tylerni7 heh
dukeleto tylerni7: first thing is, have you downloaded some code and gotten it to compile on your machine? what platform are you on?
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dukeleto rakudo: say floor(NaN) 02:41
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-2147483648␤»
tylerni7 I don't have perl 6 yet, I'm on 64bit linux
(ubuntu)
TimToady same as me 02:42
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dukeleto that isn't a rakudo bug, it's a parrot bug. I'm on it ;) 02:42
tylerni7 is there a link for the source of the smoke bot testing program thing? 02:43
TimToady well, you probably want rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo first 02:46
if you want to hack on tests or specs, you'll want a pugs commit bit (for the pugs repo, which holds a lot of stuff in addition to the pugs implementation) 02:48
most of the web pages are stored there too
tylerni7 ok
TimToady in fact, if you /msg me your email and preferred svn nick, I can give you a commit bit now
dukeleto tylerni7: the test suite is written in perl 02:49
tylerni7 ok
dukeleto tylerni7: it's fun, I promise
tylerni7 hehe :P I'm not worried about that
TimToady you have to understand that for some of us, our idea of fun is rather...masochistic... :)
dukeleto TimToady++ 02:50
tylerni7 I said I've used perl before :P hehehe
TimToady okay, pugs commit bit sent 02:51
tylerni7 ok I'm building rakudo now
TimToady takes a little more work to get a rakudo commit bit, 'cause they require a signed agreement
colomon What's the proper syntax to TODO a test? is it just # TODO ?
dukeleto colomon: #?rakudo todo 'some description' 02:52
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TimToady on the line before the test 02:52
dukeleto colomon: that is called "fudging" the test
TimToady see t/spec/README for more
dukeleto colomon: it can take a number as well to denote a group of tests.
TimToady or it can treat a block of tests as one thing
dukeleto colomon: #?rakudo 3 skip '3-arg log' 02:53
colomon dukeleto++ TimToady++
dukeleto colomon: there is also #?rakudo 3 todo 'foo'
TimToady if it parses okay
colomon skip if it doesn't parse, todo if it does, right? 02:54
TimToady right
dukeleto colomon: todo tests run, so that when they pass, you know about it. skipped tests don't run, because they b0rk the test process/fail to parse/don't apply to the current platform/compilation args
pmichaud skip if it segfaults, also
(or otherwise aborts)
(good evening, #perl6)
dukeleto pmichaud: howdy 02:55
colomon Is there a code for "passes, but almost certainly for the wrong reasons"?
dukeleto colomon: there should be :) usually a hilarious and scary comment takes it's place
TimToady you can still mark it todo, and it will "unexpectedly succeed" 02:56
pmichaud might as well leave it passing. but then (if possible) add a test that demonstrates the wrong reason :)
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TimToady though autounfudge may delete the todo 02:57
dukeleto colomon: but I think writing another test that fails would be the best case scenario :)
colomon Sure, I've got the tests that fail, too.
But like this sequence:
dukeleto autounfudge sounds like a bland process
colomon say 1i ** 2;
rakudo: say 1i ** 2; 02:58
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon rakudo: say 1i ** 3;
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon rakudo: say 1i ** 4;
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
dukeleto rakudo: $x = 1i; say $x ** 2
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Symbol '$x' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/RXsGuzYQ0n:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3454)␤»
dukeleto rakudo: my $x = 1i; say $x ** 2
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
dukeleto interesting. it does not seem to be a precedence issue 02:59
colomon So the first two are wrong, and the third surely is also wrong but happens to be the correct answer by accident.
dukeleto colomon: the third is not a good test
colomon how so?
pmichaud I think the ultimate problem at the moment is that Parrot likes to numify complex numbers into reals 03:00
dukeleto x ** 4 and (ix)**4 are always the same number
since (i)**4 = 1
colomon dukeleto: it's more than that:
dukeleto so it is not a useful test
pmichaud so since Rakudo doesn't have infix:<**>(Complex, Any) yet, it's falling back to infix:<**>(Any, Any)
colomon rakudo: say (4 + 1i) ** 2
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«17␤»
dukeleto colomon: that is definitely a bug 03:01
pmichaud and then Parrot numifies the 1i to be 1
(yes, that's broken)
example coming up
colomon pmichaud: Yes, I've implemented nfix:<**>(Complex, Any) -- but another bug seems to break it.
dukeleto colomon: the more tests the better :) 03:02
colomon Thought I'd focus on making sure there were tests for it first.
jeekobu rakudo: say (2 + 1i + 3 + 2i) ** 2
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«34␤»
pmichaud rakudo: say (2 + 1i + 3 +2i)
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«5+3i␤»
pmichaud rakudo: say (5 + 3i) * (5 + 3i)
jeekobu Yeah
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«16+30i␤»
colomon 34 = 25 + 9
jeekobu Yup 03:03
pmichaud Maybe I'll patch Parrot so it throws an exception when attempting to numify a Complex with a non-zero imaginary component
colomon pmichaud: That seems like a very good idea. 03:04
pmichaud oh, ick
TimToady decommuting &
pmichaud return sqrt(re * re + im * im); 03:05
dukeleto pmichaud: that is what a signalling NaN is for
pmichaud: feel free to add your comments to trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/954 :) 03:06
pmichaud dukeleto: that ticket is well over my head
switching terminals... brb
dukeleto pmichaud: i doubt it :) Does rakudo want to support the concepts of "quiet" NaN (the normal one) and signalling NaN (sNaN), which throws an exception at first use 03:07
parrot is toying with implementing the idea. I don't know if any HLL's would want it though 03:08
pugs_svn r28101 | colomon++ | [t/spec/S32-num/power.t] Start to generate some tests for **.
pmichaud Perl 6 exceptions are of the "throw at first use" variety
colomon I need to get some sleep now. If someone could take a look at power.t there and see if it looks reasonable, and let me know what changes I can make, I'll try to get to them in the morning... 03:09
dukeleto colomon: there?
duh 03:10
i see
colomon: i will take a look
pmichaud I suspect the integer power tests should not be is_approx
colomon Danke.
pmichaud colomon: do you have your implementation of infix:<**>(Complex, Any) somewhere? I'd like to take a look at it 03:11
rakudo: say 3 % 0; 03:12
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«3␤»
pmichaud o_O
rakudo: say 3 / 0
lisppaste3 colomon pasted "** for Complex" at paste.lisp.org/display/86216
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Divide by zero␤»
pmichaud colomon: thanks 03:13
colomon I believe the exact same code needs to be declared again as infix<**>(Any, Complex) as well.
pmichaud I'm not sure that exp and log are completely working on complex numbers
dukeleto pmichaud: for instance, floor(NaN) could raise a signalling NaN (exception) instead of returning ilogb(NaN), which is the fallback in ieee754-2008 and the non-intuitive behavior that you mentioned 03:14
pmichaud dukeleto: Rakudo will want to do whatever the Perl 6 specification says to do. I don't know what that will be. :-)
dukeleto pmichaud: is there any documented stance for what the Perl 6 spec thinks of ieee754 ? 03:15
pmichaud dukeleto: not that I'm aware of.
checking 03:16
oh, wait. lots of stuff
see S02
S02:653 03:17
colomon pmichaud: If you check the back log, you can see examples from me where complex log and exp work fine in isolation, but if you wrap a function around them the function's result is incorrect. 03:19
and now off to bed for real. 03:20
dukeleto colomon: night!
pmichaud: nice! now I have ammunition to implement that stuff in parrot :)
pmichaud buubot: spack ieee 03:21
buubot pmichaud: Couldn't match input.
pmichaud buubot: spack IEEE
buubot pmichaud: Couldn't match input.
pmichaud (I did ack -i ieee on the synopsis directory, lots of useful information there)
dukeleto whoa: in the absence of explicit initialization, native floating-point types default to NaN,... The complex type defaults to NaN + NaN i. 03:22
more than one kind of NaN ? 03:23
pmichaud rakudo: multi sub infix:<**>(Complex $a, $b) { ($a.log * $b).exp }; say 1i ** 2;
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-1+0i␤»
carlin rakudo: eval("sub foo"); eval("foo"); say $!;
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤»
dukeleto so perl 6 distinguishes between complex NaN and real NaN 03:24
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pmichaud my $a = 1i; my $b = 3; say log($a), $a.log; 03:25
rakudo: my $a = 1i; my $b = 3; say log($a), $a.log;
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«0+1.5708i0+1.5708i␤» 03:26
pmichaud rakudo: my $a = 1i; my $b = 3; say log($a) * $b, $a.log * $b;
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«0+4.71239i0+4.71239i␤»
pmichaud rakudo: my $a = 1i; my $b = 3; say exp(log($a) * $b), exp($a.log * $b);
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-1.83691e-16-1i-1.83691e-16-1i␤»
pmichaud a-ha 03:27
dukeleto pmichaud: precedence ? 03:28
pmichaud objectref-ness 03:29
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pmichaud rakudo: my $a = -1i; sub foo($a) { exp($a) }; say foo($a), exp($a); 03:29
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1+3.60739e-313i0.540302-0.841471i␤»
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pugs_svn r28102 | leto++ | Change integer tests in S32-num/power.t to use is() instead of is_approx(), set the planned number of tests and add a todo test for complex powers 03:35
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pmichaud rakudo: say "3".exp 03:37
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Method 'exp' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
carlin rakudo: proto foo { say 42; }; proto foo { say 42; }; foo; 03:40
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: ( no output )
dukeleto rakudo: say (0**0) 03:44
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
dukeleto rakudo: say (NaN**0) 03:45
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
dukeleto who thinks that is intuitive ? ;) 03:47
carlin rakudo: say "foo"**0; say "foo"**1; 03:49
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤0␤»
wayland76 Just for everyone's reference, I linked perl6.org on the Wikipedia page for Perl 6. If anyone else wants to link it on some of the other high-ranking perl6 websites... :) 03:52
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pugs_svn r28103 | leto++ | Add some tests to S32-num/power.t relating to Inf, NaN and complex numbers 03:55
carlin rakudo: proto foo($bar) {}; proto foo($baz, $quux) {}; foo;
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: ( no output )
carlin does that segfault for anyone else? 03:56
dukeleto carlin: I get a Bus error on darwin 03:59
carlin rt #68242 is sort of related to this 04:00
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pugs_svn r28104 | leto++ | Add myself to AUTHORS. It took a while. 04:12
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Karthz How can I be a volunteer? What kind of help could I do for Perl 6? 04:42
wayland76 Karthz: Overview of how to help use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39445 04:43
But there are many ways, depending on your skill set
Karthz Thanks!
wayland76 We also have a shiny new website: perl6.org/
Karthz I am a Software Developer. However, I am new to Perl. I would love to learn Perl though.
wayland76 Ok, that's not a problem 04:44
Karthz Yeah, I visited this chat from the new website only.
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wayland76 I'd suggest reading over the first link I pasted. Probably the first thing to do in your case is get a copy of the Rakudo implementation of the Perl 6 spec 04:44
Once you have that, try out some examples and stuff, so that you can get a feel for what's done and what isn't 04:45
What programming languages are you currently familiar with?
Karthz I am familiar with Java, C++, C, and Python. 04:46
wayland76 Ok, you may find Perl a little different
in that, you can do pretty much all the stuff you're familiar with
But there are also a number of things borrowed from other languages that you'll be less familiar with 04:47
one of the Perl slogans is "There's more than one way to do it", so Perl tends to provide features so that you can use any programming style you like
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wayland76 ...up to a point. They don't feel they have to get *everything* in, but they like to include lots 04:48
Karthz cool. that sounds great.
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Karthz Could you please tell me where I could get a copy of the "Rakudo implementation of the Perl 6 spec"? 04:49
wayland76 The long version of what I just said appears here: www.wall.org/~larry/pm.html -- that was written before perl6 was designed, but some ideas still apply (you may not want to read the long version, so that's just FYI)
wayland76 is looking for the link for Karthz 04:50
Makoryu Karthz: rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo <- Like this?
wayland76 www.rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo
Ah, I'm too slow :)
Karthz thanks to the both of you :)
Makoryu bows
wayland76 Quick overview -- the Rakudo implementation of the Perl 6 spec runs on the Parrot Virtual Machine
So part of the setup is getting that installed 04:51
If you're on an RPM system, you can also build RPMs of Parrot and Rakudo, if you prefer those
(I'll be back in 2 minutes) 04:52
Makoryu Speaking of Parrot, is there a J/K/Q implementation yet? (I know there's an APL implementation but.... it's APL.) 04:53
wayland76 You mean, is there an implementation of eg. the language called "J" that runs on Parrot? 04:55
Makoryu Yep
wayland76 I don't know the answer to that -- the #parrot channel on irc.parrot.org will probably know though 04:56
pmichaud there's been some interest in implementing J 05:04
afk, sleep 05:07
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Karthz is there a Perl book that you would recommend? 05:15
for beginners of Perl 05:16
Makoryu Karthz: The Perl 6 wikibook seems to be geared towards beginners 05:19
wayland76 My approach when learning Perl 5 was to read the Perl 5 equivalent of perlcabal.org/syn/ 05:20
That also has the big advantage that it's up-to-date :) 05:21
The Perl6 spec is fairly stable in most areas, but there are still areas that change
For example, IO is still in draft mode, and so are threads 05:22
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Karthz cool, thanks 05:29
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idontknowperl hello? 05:33
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wayland76 I should've mentioned that my link to the synopses might not be everyone's preferred method of learning, but it worked for me. 05:52
Also, S02 could be confusing if you don't know Perl
Karthz: Did you ever program in BASIC?
Karthz long back.. that's the first language i ever learnt 05:53
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anfedorov hi all 05:53
wayland76 hi
anfedorov random guy on internet here, very impressed with perl6 architecture ;) you guys are brilliant! 05:54
wayland76 Karthz: Ok, so you'll be familiar with the idea that punctuation can mark a variable type
Karthz wayland76: why do you ask? is there a relation between BASIC and Perl?
anfedorov oops, I'm thinking Parrot, perl6 is neat too, though
:)
s1n ouch!
wayland76 Well, in BASIC, a string is called STRINGNAME$ whereas in Perl, a scalar is is $stringname 05:55
(scalars can be strings, ints, or whatever, like in Python)
We also have @array and %hash
so you can have $item = @array[0]
or $item = %hash<key> 05:56
Anyway, I'm going to be away from my keyboard for half an hour or so -- see you all in a bit
Karthz sure, thanks a lot. 05:57
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jauaor hello 05:58
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spinclad hugme: hug me 06:03
hugme hugs me
spinclad :)
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wayland76 back. 06:25
hugme: hug spinclad
hugme hugs spinclad
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dukeleto yay for proper perl6 syntax highlighting in vim 07:32
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Su-Shee good morning! :) 07:34
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dukeleto 'ello 07:38
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pugs_svn r28105 | leto++ | Add more tests for various power operations in S32-num/power.t 08:03
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jaffa8 hi 10:35
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jaffa8 How would you determine in Perl 6 regular expression if a captured group is not captured? 10:36
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cognominal jaffa8, I suppose that the name of the rule is missing as a key from the $/ tree 10:55
wayland76 You start by looking among the hostages! (Yes, that's a joke, because I don't know the answer :) ) 11:03
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cognominal jaffa8, if you meant checking within the expression itfself, you are ouf of luck because Perl 6 closure are not yet implemented by PGE 11:14
colomon pmichaud++ # working implementation of Complex ** 11:16
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azawawi hi 11:31
jaffa8 I mean an expression like this 11:32
e.g/(a)|(b)/
According to synopsys
both are matched as $0 11:33
How do you know which is matched left or right?
azawawi moritz_: ping 11:34
moritz_: can u install sbcl on feather1? 11:38
moritz_: thanks :)
pugs_svn r28106 | colomon++ | [t/spec/S32-num/power.t] Changed is back to is_approx for Complex powers, fixed broken test, reorganized Complex tests, added several new tests, moved plan back to plan * anticipating more heavy work on power.t in the next few days. (Have a patch for setting which makes all 11:42
..failing tests work, but breaks one of the NaN tests. Not clear if the Complex NaN tests are correct. Patch is inelegant.)
lisppaste3 colomon pasted "Patch to setting/Complex.pm to make Complex powers work (pmichaud++)" at paste.lisp.org/display/86224 11:44
colomon I recognize that patch is inelegant, and hope someone has a notion of how to make it pretty. 11:45
Also, I'm hoping to make additional Complex number patches in the next few days. I think sin and cos for Complex numbers are low-hanging fruit... 11:46
I believe the complex test cases should all be is_approx. That is, unless there is some sort of Complex made of two Ints mode I am not aware of. 11:51
cognominal rakudo: 'a' ~~ m/<a=a>/<b=b>/ and say keys %($/) 12:20
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Method 'postcircumfix:{ }' not found for invocant of class 'Regex'␤»
cognominal oops 12:21
rakudo: 'a' ~~ m/<a=a>|<b=b>/ and say keys %($/)
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Unable to find regex 'a'␤in regex PGE::Grammar::_block53 (/tmp/nqQiamD85d:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/nqQiamD85d:2)␤»
12:21 jrtayloriv joined
cognominal rakudo: 'a' ~~ m/<a='a'>|<b='b'>/ and say keys %($/) 12:21
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub m␤»
cognominal rakudo: 'a' ~~ m/<a a>|<b b>/ and say keys %($/) 12:22
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Unable to find regex 'a'␤in regex PGE::Grammar::_block53 (/tmp/Da0UsZbulh:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/Da0UsZbulh:2)␤»
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jaffa8 rakudo: print $/; 13:05
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤»
jaffa8 std:$r~~/:p 3** 3.. /; 13:14
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jaffa8 std: $r~~/:p 3** 3.. /; 13:14
p6eval std 28106: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Variable $r is not predeclared at /tmp/QkIOYVcgvg line 1:␤------> $r⏏~~/:p 3** 3.. /;␤ok 00:03 38m␤»
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pugs_svn r28107 | azawawi++ | [MiniPerl6] Added create-mp6-lisp.pl to make it easy for people to 13:32
r28107 | [MiniPerl6] create mp6-lisp on win32 and *nix
r28108 | azawawi++ | [MiniPerl6] Fixed a POD typo 13:34
carlin I thought it would be fun to make a basic implementation of perl6 in PHP, got halfway through my first preg_match() and remembered why I hate that language so much :( 13:38
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rindolf Hi all. 13:43
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jauaor hi 13:48
jaffa8 calin, all you need to do so, to understand pugs. 13:49
calin, your plans are very ambitious. 13:52
wayland76 carlin: Allow me to point out that the current implementation of P6 has been worked on for (IIRC) over a year by two guys, and still isn't done 13:54
jaffa8 How much do they work at p6 on a week? 13:55
M_o_C wayland76: To which implementation are you refering?
jaffa8 rakudo
he refers to rakudo
carlin when I say "basic" I mean "able to use 'say'" ;) Would never have got anywhere near where the currents ones are
wayland76 rakudo of course :) 13:56
jaffa8 I am trying to write a p5 regular expression translator
carlin but think how nice it would be, you could configure apache to use /index.php/ as the root (so example.com/foo.pl is actually example.com/index.php/foo.pl) have it read in the file and parse it 13:58
wayland76 s/the current/one of the current/
carlin: Wouldn't you be better off putting a web frontend on rakudo? 13:59
Or using Web.pm somehow?
carlin Probably
It's using PHP, I never said it was a good idea :p
wayland76 anyway, night all, I'm going to bed (it's midnight( 14:02
carlin Wayland76: Night
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rindolf wayland76: night. 14:09
Isn't wayland76 Chinese?
jaffa8 if he is ... 14:18
then it is logical that he went to bed. 14:19
TimToady however, the converse does not hold
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rindolf --- [wayland76] (n=wayland@ppp118-208-212-161.lns10.mel6.internode.on.net) : Tim Nelson 14:24
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Su-Shee I think, he's australian.. 14:27
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M_o_C lns10.mel6.internode.on.net -> 150.101.212.56 which seems to belong to Australia (Melbourn as it seems which is supported by the mel6. part) 14:32
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TimToady you know, when someone clicks 'download', it takes them to a github page that simultaneously manages to provide too much information and too little information 14:33
M_o_C you mean on perl6.org? 14:34
TimToady yes
also, it's not clear how to get the head revision, only releases 14:35
Su-Shee I've wanted to avoid the need that each month someone has to remember to change the download link pointing to the release.
jaffa8 TimToady , what is your real life job?
TimToady clown
jaffa8 I mean seriously 14:36
jauaor haha
TimToady: no more vacancy?
TimToady I work for a chip design company 14:37
jaffa8 And what do you have to do?
TimToady help them design chips, and the software that interfaces to them 14:38
jaffa8 Is it like when the software designs the layout based on some constraints?
araujo can't imagine chips optimized for perl 14:40
Su-Shee why not? there was symbolics once, the lisp machine...
TimToady we are not making perl chips 14:41
araujo :(
perl6 chips?
jaffa8 probably not 14:42
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TimToady Su-Shee: one could put an intermediate instruction page with generic instructions; "go to this page and click the first download in the top box" 14:46
the intermediate page could also point off to rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakud
o
which is complementary
just looking for ways to help the new folks a bit more... 14:47
Su-Shee TimToady: that's what I have in the new version of the webpage (which also separates the subjects better and makes the pages better scale for future additions) - I can easily add a "download release", "get instructions" "download most recent from github (which has this nice download ability) and so on.. 14:48
TimToady cool
looking forward to it
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TimToady mostly just wiggling my fingers over the keyboard waiting for the coffee to hit 14:49
Su-Shee so we can offer everything the usal nice way for all folks .. bleeding edgers, stable conservatives.. and later hopefully binary versions and the usal 986503 distribution packages. ;)
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 15:10
TimToady +1 15:13
pmichaud oh, I had never clicked on the "download" link on that page. 15:14
I think it should go to rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo for the time being, until we have another page of downloads
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TimToady that seems reasonable to me 15:16
maybe add a sentence to rakudo's page saying "But if you want a released version, go to <a>github</a>" 15:17
pmichaud yes, we should note the released versions on the rakudo page directly, I think. 15:18
it already says "There are also snapshots of each monthly release available at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/downloads."
TimToady 'kay, missed that 15:19
pmichaud well, if you missed it, it might need to be more visible :)
yath hm, is NQP the same as kp6? 15:20
pmichaud yath: no 15:21
yath pmichaud: what is/was kp6 then?
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yath i thought that was used in parrot for bootstrapping perl6... 15:21
pmichaud iirc, kp6 was a lightweight bootstrapping p6 for perl 5
TimToady I'd put that up in front, s/also//, and then say, 'However, since rakudo is under active development...'
yath pmichaud: ah
pmichaud TimToady: yes, I agree
yath pmichaud: so nothing related to parrot or rakudo?
pmichaud yath: not as far as I know 15:22
yath ok, thanks :)
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Su-Shee updated. 15:25
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TimToady it would appear that pugs_svn is hosed 15:30
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pmichaud rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo # updated 15:36
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TimToady Su-Shee++, pmichaud++ # I'm not a bot, but I play one on IRC 15:47
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pugs_svn r28110 | colomon++ | Test for a Complex raised to a non-Int power. 15:51
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colomon Whoops, forgot the [t/spec/S32-num/power.t] bit. 15:52
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pmichaud colomon: [t/spec] is usually sufficient 15:54
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M_o_C Hrm, what kind of favicon is rakudo.org using? Is that supposed to be an official logo or something? 15:57
pmichaud It's just a logo. I don't know about "official logo". 15:58
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M_o_C Ok. I was just asking because I wondered wether somebody made that for rakudo or wether it's from the theme you're using 16:00
.
pmichaud Rakudo didn't have any sort of logo so I had that one created as a temporary. 16:01
M_o_C Ah, ok. Looks good btw :) 16:02
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s1n good mid-morning #perl6 :) 16:21
today looks like a fine day for a mini-hackathon
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rindolf s1n: and a perfect day to shoot missiles on the Enemy's soldiers. 16:26
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payload is there a better method than spam say subs to debug a rakudo error message like 17:08
perl6regex parse error: Quantifier follows nothing in regex at offset 869, found ':'
in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3454)
?
jaffa8 what is regular expression? 17:12
that is easy
payload: it is not complete. 17:16
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jauaor coding a bit in his tiny language 17:19
payload :-/ it's not so easy when it is happening while importing a grammar module github.com/krunen/xml/blob/1b974536...ocument.pm 17:22
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payload this line dies token name { <.alpha><.ident>+[:<.ident>+]? } 17:27
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jaffa8 try \: 17:29
payload 17:30
payload thx ^^ works 17:32
well... maybe there is more than one thing outdated in github.com/krunen/xml/tree/master 17:34
krunen_:
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s1n pmichaud: ping 18:10
pmichaud s1n: pong
s1n pmichaud: wanna go a little early and go have lunch?
pmichaud just got back from lunch, tnx
s1n okay
pmichaud I was thinking about getting there a bit early, though -- leaving here in about 10-15 mins
that should put me there around 1:45
s1n yeah i was going to leave in about 10 minutes too, grab some potbelly and set up 18:11
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pugs_svn r28111 | leto++ | [t/spec] Add tests for min/max with Inf/NaN 18:17
pmichaud rakudo: say <-1 -Inf>.min 18:20
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p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-1␤» 18:20
pmichaud looks to me like Rakudo is correct there. 18:21
dukeleto pmichaud: -1 should be less than -Inf ?
pmichaud "-1" is less than "-Inf", yes. 18:22
(since "1" is less than "I")
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dukeleto pmichaud: could you please explain that? Is it because of stringification ? 18:22
pmichaud: is that the desired behavior?
pmichaud rakudo: say <-1 -Inf>.perl
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«["-1", "-Inf"]␤»
pmichaud <...> produces a list of strings
min does &infix:<cmp>
(by default)
dukeleto pmichaud: aha
pmichaud rakudo: say "-1" cmp "-Inf"; 18:23
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-1␤»
pmichaud (hmm, that might be a bit misleading :-)
rakudo: say "-5" cmp "-Inf"
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-1␤»
pmichaud rakudo: say -5 cmp -Inf 18:24
dukeleto pmichaud: so how would I make that work more intutively to my mathematician's eyes?
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
pmichaud don't use <...> if you don't want strings :)
use (-1, -Inf)
rakudo: say (-1, -Inf).min
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-Inf␤»
dukeleto pmichaud: touché
pmichaud++ for learning me good
pmichaud and your mathematician's eye ought to appreciate (-1, -Inf) more than <-1 -Inf> anyway :) :) 18:25
dukeleto pmichaud: indeed they do :)
pmichaud time for me to head to the local hackathon...bbl 18:26
dukeleto pmichaud: have fun and say hello for me 18:27
payload min is a method on (-1, -Inf)... shouldnt there be min (-1, -Inf): be possible? 18:28
say min (-1, -Inf): 18:29
rakudo: say min (-1, -Inf):
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ":"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3454)␤»
payload std: min (-1, -Inf):
p6eval std 28111: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 41m␤»
dukeleto rakudo: say min (-1, -Inf);
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'min'␤in Main (/tmp/axEaphQNQW:2)␤»
18:30 eMaX left
pugs_svn r28112 | leto++ | [t/spec] Use () instead of <> to build arrays of numbers, pmichaud++ 18:30
pmichaud rakudo: say min(-1,-Inf);
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'min'␤in Main (/tmp/XbKS7Tw3hD:2)␤»
pmichaud rakudo: say [min] -1, -Inf; 18:31
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-Inf␤»
pmichaud the current spec doesn't seem to have a min() function, just a min operator and a [min] reduction operator
oh, wait
there is a min() function, but it requires an ordering argument
our multi min( Ordering $by, *@values ) 18:32
rakudo: say min(&infix:<cmp>, -1, -Inf);
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Method 'arity' not found for invocant of class 'MultiSub'␤»
pmichaud bah
need to move &infix:<cmp> into the setting
rakudo: say min( {$^a cmp $^b}, -1, -Inf); 18:33
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«-Inf␤»
pmichaud afk
s1n going to borders
payload oh no... i dont mean the min function.... i mean the indirect object notation ^^ their is a colon : not a semi* 18:36
TimToady payload: rakudo doesn't really parse indirect objects correctly, I suspect 18:39
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TimToady but yes, what you have there should be equivalent to (-1, -Inf).min 18:40
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jaffa8 rakudo: for (1..3) {} 19:06
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: ( no output )
jaffa8 rakudo: for (1..3) { print $_}
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«123»
pugs_svn r28113 | lwall++ | [S03] some tidying of /, %, div, and mod
jaffa8 rakudo: for (7..3) { print $_} 19:07
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: ( no output )
jaffa8 rakudo: for reverse(7..3) { print $_}
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: ( no output )
jaffa8 rakudo: for (reverse(7..3)) { print $_}
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: ( no output )
jaffa8 rakudo: for (reverse(1..3)) { print $_}
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«321»
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spinclad sadly, i won't be seeing the new perl6.org for another 3 days -- (1) pairnic.org gave a cache time of a week for the old address, and (2) perl6-projects.org now redirects its page to perl6.org. :( 20:13
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scud hey, so I was checking out the perl6 website and I'm interested in helping out. 20:31
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mberends scud: great, what do you feel like doing? 20:35
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scud probably application development or documentation 20:36
I gotta say though, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to helping out open source projects. I have all this free time that I'd be more than willing to spend helping out. 20:37
mberends Perl 6 needs both apps and docs :) 20:38
in open source you do whatever you want, and this channel gives you help and good company 20:39
pugs_svn r28114 | frew++ | add test for RT68662 20:41
scud ok, cool. I'm reading through the perl 6 wikibook now.
mberends scud: most people begin by installing Rakudo, have you done that? 20:42
scud no
Ok, I'll get on that
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scud Ok, built and installed Rakudo. Ran a test helloworld.pl through it to make sure it was working and success :). 20:54
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sjohnson mberends: hi 20:57
long time no see
mberends scud: that was quick. one important jobs for newcomers is to give feedback about the docs and webpages, because the experienced members gloss over any deficiencies.
sjohnson: hi, it has been a few weeks :)
rindolf scud: are you Skud? 20:58
scud no
rindolf scud: ah.
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scud should I go with a different nick? 20:58
Su-Shee scud: no. we just thought you were one of the few perl women. 20:59
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Su-Shee (at least that's what I thought, just included rindolf here..) 20:59
scud ok. Oh, but have you seen all the negative feedback on the reddit link to perl6.org? 21:00
rindolf scud: yes, we also have a Skud - Kirrily Robert 21:01
sjohnson can someone paste me the link
scud www.reddit.com/r/programming/commen..._perl6org/
sjohnson i actually thought the Perl6 site was kinda good 21:02
clean, colourful, has the cute bug, and has all the relevant links withuot having to scroll anywhere
Su-Shee upon a website about Squeak :) <-- that's actually a compliment :)
rindolf scud: the colours hurt my eyes.
They should be more pastely.
And probably less. 21:03
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rindolf I like the rounded corners though. 21:04
Su-Shee rindolf: I've had a more pastel colored variation.. channel went for the candy colors :)
rindolf Su-Shee: ah.
scud It's not bad, but why the butterfly I'm wondering? I can see the 6 on the wings, but is there any specific reason for it? 21:05
rindolf The download button should be higher on the page.
Su-Shee: have you read www.shlomifish.org/Files/files/text...keting.pdf ? 21:06
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Su-Shee it was.. the page doesn't hold all information well anymore. I already have another version in the making. 21:06
rindolf: do I really want to?
rindolf Su-Shee: it's good. 21:07
Su-Shee: I enjoyed it.
Su-Shee: very enlightening.
Su-Shee: by a marketing expert. 21:08
It was given in OSDC::Israel::2006
Su-Shee rindolf: hm. ;)
rindolf Su-Shee: and a gradient would be nice. 21:09
gradients I mean.
Constant colours don't give a place for the eye to rest. 21:10
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Su-Shee rindolf: hence great poster design using it successfully for about 100 years.. ;) 21:11
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jaffa8 the best would be if it were finished., 21:11
KyleHa @seen frew
lambdabot I saw frew leaving #perl6 3h 42m 47s ago, and .
rindolf Su-Shee: but thanks for your effort.
payload rakudo: say '(foo)' ~~ /'(' ~ ')' .*?/ 21:15
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Unable to parse , couldn't find final ')'␤in regex PGE::Grammar::_block51 (/tmp/holtSrgh8v:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/holtSrgh8v:2)␤»
payload i think this is a bug
rakudo: say '(foo)' ~~ /'(' ~ ')' 'foo'/
Su-Shee "but that website sings gay. Perl6 needs a mascot more manly than a camel, snake, gemstone, penguin, and moon. To start off with a butterfly mascot even more feminine than some retarded Brazilian half-moon is worthy of a special mention" I think, we're on the right track.. ;)
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«(foo)␤»
pugs_svn r28115 | kyle++ | adjust RT #68662 test 21:16
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mikehh rakudo (7666e92) builds on parrot r40855, make test PASS / make spectest (up to r28114) 1 FAILure - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (gcc) 21:19
t/spec/S06-operator-overloading/sub.rakudo - Failed test: 45 - Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 44 tests but ran 45.
mberends Su-Shee: you don't take that comment seriously, do you? 21:20
Su-Shee mberends: no, I know who that is. ;)
mikehh ./perl6 t/spec/S06-operator-overloading/sub.rakudo - ok 28 - "", no output ? 21:21
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KyleHa mikehh: That's from this test: is (if+5), 10; 21:25
It just doesn't have a description.
mikehh: Also, I fixed the bad plan a short time ago; it should run clean again. 21:26
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mikehh KyleHa: ok 21:27
will try again
lisppaste3 colomon annotated #86224 "Proper patch for Complex **" at paste.lisp.org/display/86224#1 21:28
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colomon Finally occurred to me I should look at how the other operators handled providing interfaces for Complex, Any; Any, Complex; and Complex, Complex. Turns out "is default" is the key. 21:29
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mikehh ok fixed 21:31
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mikehh rakudo (7666e92) builds on parrot r40855, make test PASS / make spectest (up to r28115) PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (gcc) 21:34
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pugs_svn r28116 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Re-organize the sine tests. 21:54
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TimToady I do wish that chromatic wouldn't hold out the hope of someone "fixing" perl.org merely by volunteering when that is not in fact the dynamics of the situation :) 22:06
rindolf TimToady: hi. 22:08
TimToady howdy
rindolf TimToady: I've started volunteering in perl.org
TimToady: BTW, I heard some stuff about your health.
From the latest State-of-the-Onion.
TimToady how did you hear that, when (as far as I know) it wasn't recorded? 22:09
araujo as far as you know .... 22:11
TimToady also as far as I know, I didn't say anything about my health
so my guess is that it's an older SOTO that is being referenced 22:12
rindolf TimToady: someone blogged about it. 22:16
TimToady: I wasn't successful in running the Combust on Mandriva Cooker yet. 22:17
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rindolf But I'm hopeful I can sort it out. 22:17
TimToady I have no idea what you're talking about :)
rindolf The worst is probably behind.
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rindolf TimToady: Combust is the CMS that the *.perl.org sites are using. 22:18
TimToady ah, right, I had put it out of my memory
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rindolf OK, I'm going to leave the computer on at night running a backup and a packages update. 22:19
TimToady rindolf: do you twitter?
rindolf TimToady: I mostly plurk.
But I have a twitter account 22:20
/shlomif
twitter.com/shlomif
TimToady it was just a twitterish microblog about the backup etc. :)
rindolf I am using my twitter login for disqus, though, due to my LiveJournal OpenID not being accepted for some reason. 22:23
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payload rakudo: say "bar < foo > baz" ~~ /'<' .*? '>'/ 23:21
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«< foo >␤»
payload rakudo: token content { .*? }; say "bar < foo > baz" ~~ /'<' <content> '>'/ 23:22
p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«␤»
payload :-\
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pugs_svn r28117 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Refactor cosine as well. 23:57
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