»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
Set by diakopter on 6 September 2010.
Tene pmichaud: do they eq if you you just call .decode() twice? 00:08
Hmm. I get 1 when I run that. I should update. 00:09
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pmichaud Tene: I'm running a rakudo against a more recent copy of Parrot (after some string encoding changes) 00:42
Tene ahh 00:43
pmichaud I get a failure that comes down to the fact that Buf.decode seems to be returning a string that is marked as 'ascii' encoding even though it's obviously unicode
just a sec, I'll update
Tene spooky
I'm on parrot 48933
and they're equal
pmichaud right
I'm on whatever revision is in the nopaste :)
48982 00:44
Tene oh, right, it's there
Reading comprehension is great. :)
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pmichaud gist.github.com/578339 # same as previous nopaste, showing that encodings are somehow different 00:45
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pmichaud gist.github.com/578359 # somewhere is a bug in 'get_string_as' that is returning the wrong encoding 01:00
I wonder if the problem is the zero-length string
i.e., perhaps its encoding is being switched to ascii somewhere because it has length zero. 01:01
a-ha
I think I now.
*know
yes, bug confirmed. 01:02
the encoding isn't being preserved in the packfile.
filed as TT #1791 01:12
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lichtkind is anyone from planetsix here? 01:35
since use.perl ends please change my feed to blogs.perl.org/users/lichtkind/ tag: "Perl 6" 01:36
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dalek kudo: 4d96c92 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
Change unicode constant string passed to ByteBuffer.get_string_as to work around TT #1791.
 02:04
kudo: c71489b | pmichaud++ | docs/ChangeLog:
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo
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sorear good * #perl6 03:24
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diakopter sorear: hi 03:29
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sorear shocking 03:36
diakopter ? :)
sorear removing 1 pointer from backtrack state objects = 16% speedup 03:37
diakopter int r sting
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dalek ecza: 7f531ff | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
Combine klasses and reps into a composite N-stack
 03:45
ecza: 69dcd45 | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
Use a composite list for captures
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TimToady new entry: rosettacode.org/wiki/Create_a_two-d...ime#Perl_6 04:17
sorear is implementing <?foo> as <!!foo> 04:18
feels a little silly :)
TimToady not quite correct under LTM
well, for the matching itself, it's fine 04:19
sorear yeah for the matching itself
TimToady but <?foo> includes foo in LTM, and <!...> doesn't
nodnoe
*d
sorear LTM is handled by a different codepath
TimToady maybe you should implement <!foo> and <??foo>...oh wait... 04:20
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dalek ecza: 65081a4 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
Give NState responsibilities for backtrack control
 05:15
ecza: 1083311 | sorear++ | src/RxOp.pm:
Implement optimizations for simple cases of **
ecza: e698589 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
Optimize use of literal strings in lookahead
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sorear the LTM engine is *finally* showing up on the profile 05:25
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masak oh hai, #perl6! 05:57
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sorear hello masak 05:58
masak bon matin.
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dalek ecza: 664f420 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
Avoid making a cursor uselessly for alternation
 06:45
ecza: 5d21502 | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
Refactor NFA generation
ecza: d4df43e | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
Implement lazy DFA generation
masak sorear: [backlog] I hope that some day I will reach for perl6 for most of my quick-and-dirty file scraping and reporting needs. 06:47
sorear 31.4 ms / 6.01MB 06:48
masak: oh?
masak I don't know yet if it's a realistic vision, but I still haven't ruled it out. :) 06:49
TimToady s/quick-and-dirty file scraping and reporting//
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masak ;) 06:50
moritz_ std: s/quick-and-dirty file scraping and reporting//
p6eval std 32123: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter - (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/oT_snfQ7cN line 1:␤------> s/quick-⏏and-dirty file scraping and reporting//␤Couldn't find terminator / at /tmp/oT_snfQ7cN line 1:␤------>
..s/quick-[…
masak well, on the higher end I already reach for Perl 6 often enough.
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masak moritz_: sometimes we unashamedly use p5 substitutions :) 06:51
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TimToady I was using sed 06:51
masak lol
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sorear apparently I've was blind when I created this "file of JSON as big as STD", I made it 30 times too big 06:54
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moritz_ www.perl.com/pub/2010/09/people-of-...-lenz.html 06:58
masak I was just going to post that :) 07:00
a good read. moritz_++
moritz_ thanks
sorear isn't going to make much more of a dent in niecza parsing slowness without gradual types
moritz_ chromatic++
sorear calling all methods all the time as if they could be method foo(*@_ is rw) is rw, hurts 07:01
moritz_: what is an object pipe? 07:03
that sounds fun
moritz_ sorear: what is used in a feed operator
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dalek ast: 50a95bb | moritz++ | S03-series/arity-2-or-more.t:
[series] unfudge some tests
 07:10
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sorear moritz_: Do they have an independant existance? 07:16
moritz_ sorear: don't know 07:17
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masak rakudo: for (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) -> $x, $y { say "$x $y" } 07:20
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«1 2␤3 4␤Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤ in <anon> at line 2:/tmp/XJL94D01LS␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
masak no more StopIteration. Rakudo++ 07:21
moritz_ rakudo: for (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) -> $x, $y? { say "$x $y" } 07:25
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«1 2␤3 4␤5 Mu()␤»
moritz_ rakudo++
though I'd argue that $y? should default to Any, even though the type constraint is Mu 07:26
much like
sorear moritz_: The stuff on feeds in the spec confuses me
moritz_ my $x; say $x.WHAT; $x = Mu; say "alive"
rakudo: my $x; say $x.WHAT; $x = Mu; say "alive"
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Any()␤alive␤»
moritz_ sorear: you're not the first one to be confused by it
afk
masak rakudo: my @a = (1, 2, 3); @a ,= 4; @a.say;
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«1234␤» 07:27
masak \o/
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pmichaud moritz++ # people of perl 6 07:32
mathw o/ 07:33
masak \o 07:35
pmichaud _o_
mathw moritz++
pmichaud wonders if he'll ever be a "People of Perl 6" :-) 07:36
mathw Of course not
daxim pumpking?
mathw You're a Lord at least
pmichaud
.oO( Lord of Least? ) :-)
masak Lord at Least of Perl 6! 07:37
that's some title!
jnthn morning, #perl6 07:38
pmichaud jnthn: o/
masak jnthn! \o/
sorear hello jnthn
I'm done optimizing niecza's regexes for now :)
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jnthn This mobile broadband has...quite some latency. :-) 07:40
mathw ah mobile 07:42
the non-future
jnthn It's fine in one place. 07:43
But i'm on the train.
tylercurtis is done writing action methods for Bennu for tonight.
jnthn sorear: So, what next? :-)
tylercurtis Good night, #perl6.
sorear random features for a while 07:44
then I'll need to figure out how to make roles work
which will be ... interesting
mathw :)
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mathw I'm still kind of trying to figure out what roles are for 07:44
sorear I've designed my ClassHOW into a corner; I'm not sure how I can extend it 07:45
mathw I think my OO design brain is just programmed for systems which don't have them
So I have no handles to grasp
I've only run into one situation recently where I would have used one (I used C++ multiple inheritance to get a similar effect)
sorear So I want to steal jnthn++'s ClassHOW
jnthn Working on it... :-) 07:46
tylercurtis phenny: tell TimToady STD's statement_control:if is lovely. Thank you for that. It was a pleasure to write an action method for.
phenny tylercurtis: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
jnthn ooh, a station. Connection stability!
sjn: You'll be glad to know I'm on my way. :-) 07:47
sorear The latest timing figures are 31.4 seconds for 6,010,001 bytes
JSON::Tiny
jnthn Whee.
sorear seems STD uses my ($x, $y, $z) = foo; in quite a few places 07:48
sorear ponders how that should work in Perl6
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jnthn It's just list assignment, afaik. 07:48
pmichaud I think Rakudo treats it as "Parcel assignment"
jnthn Pro tip: before feeling shocked how much the coffee is, be sure you're awake enough to differentiate between 15 and 50. 07:49
pmichaud i.e., it's the STORE method on Parcel
jnthn *yawn*
It's kind of a bootstrapping problem though. I needed the coffee to be awake enough. :-) 07:50
sorear tries to find the impl of that
jnthn Probably src/builtins/Parcel.pir or some such
pmichaud src/builtins/Parcel.pir:207
pmichaud notes that bootstraps applied properly are an alternative to the coffee :) 07:51
sorear rakudo: my $x = "hi"; my $y = "lo"; ($x, *, *, *, *, $y) = ((0 ... 4),$x); say $y; 07:53
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«hi␤»
masak pmichaud: that's a scary use of "properly"... :)
sorear wonders how this is workign
oh, it's entirely eager 07:54
rakudo: my (@x) = (0 ... *); say "alive"
pmichaud list assignment is eager, yes :-)
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
jnthn rakudo: my @x := (0 ... *); say @x[42] 07:55
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«42␤»
pmichaud rakudo: my (@x) = 0..*; # curious
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
pmichaud ah, that should probably succeed.
jnthn checks his lazy slide
rakudo: my @fib = 1, 1, *+* ... Inf; say @fib[10]; 07:56
pmichaud I can fix this last case, I suspect.
sorear Wait wait *what*
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«89␤»
sorear How can it possibly succeed and WHY
jnthn pmichaud: ...so how come that one works?
moritz_ phenny, tell [Coke] about irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-09-14#i_2822295
phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when [Coke] is around.
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jnthn pmichaud: And can I rely on it doing so? 07:57
rakudo: my @fib := 1, 1, *+* ... Inf; say @fib[10];
p6eval rakudo c71489: ( no output )
sorear What should I do with List!fill after niecza starts implementing private methods correctly?
jnthn And yet that doesn't? Hmm
pmichaud jnthn: precedence
rakudo still has := as item
jnthn oh
pmichaud (I can fix that as soon as I get a stable parrot)
tylercurtis iirc, the spec says somewhere that list assignment is only mostly eager. It eagerly evaluates anything that's already there, but is lazy about the rest. 07:58
pmichaud I'm not sure why the assignment version worked.
jnthn rakudo: my @fib := (1, 1, *+* ... Inf); say @fib[10];
tylercurtis didn't think that was the case in Rakudo, though.
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«89␤»
jnthn pmichaud: Should it twiddle my example to use binding?
pmichaud I'd have to see how series got implemented to know why that's working.
jnthn *I
pmichaud jnthn: no, I wouldn't expect that.
sorear tylercurtis: as someone who has hacked on lazy evaluators in the past, I assure you that the spec's notion of "mostly eager" is completely insane
pmichaud oh, sorry 07:59
jnthn: yes, you should make your example using binding for now.... the handling of infinite series isn't well spec'd yet.
tylercurtis sorear: good to know.
jnthn Twiddled, thanks.
pmichaud infinite ranges we can handle: 08:00
rakudo: my @a = 1..*; say @a[10];
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«11␤»
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pmichaud infinite series... not so much yet. 08:00
sorear pmichaud: Why does that make any sense at all?
tylercurtis rakudo: my @fib = lazy 1, 1, *+* ... *; say @fib[10]; # wonders...
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &lazy␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/3DsI3LZDfp␤»
pmichaud sorear: "mostly eager" is allowed to stop evaluating if it knows that the thing it's working on is "infinite" 08:01
tylercurtis I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be the right thing even if Rakudo did have &lazy.
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pmichaud so, since the range 1..* can easily determine it's infinite, eager evaluation is allowed to stop there 08:01
sorear ah, it's a liberal approximation of finiteness
pmichaud we don't yet have a clean definition for what might make something like 1...* halt eager evaluation, or a gather/take loop
sorear that makes much more sense 08:02
pmichaud TimToady++ and I have been discussing this here on-and-off over the past couple of weeks
(and yes, there are some spec changes afoot)
sorear hmm. Why does Parcel!STORE have a cont_rpa: case? 08:03
Are people supposed to put rpas in Parcels?
pmichaud in Rakudo, Parcel isa RPA
i.e., Rakudo treats any RPA it encounters like a Parcel 08:04
that handles nested parcels on the lhs, iirc
e.g., as in (@foo[3,4,5], $x) = ...
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tylercurtis can't actually understand how exactly "my @foo = 1..*" isn't "my @foo; @foo[0] = 1..*;". 08:05
moritz_ tylercurtis: list assignment is special-cased
tylercurtis moritz_: in what way? 08:06
moritz_ tylercurtis: the right-hand side can be asked if it is a flattening list, as opposed to a single item
pmichaud I think it's somewhat more accurate to say that item assignment is special-cased :-)
moritz_ so it can differentiate between (1, 2, 3) and [1, 2, 3]
pmichaud: both are true, I think :-) 08:07
sorear &infix:<=> checks the "list" alloflag on the LHS
tylercurtis moritz_: Ah. Okay. Is that specced? Or implementation strategy of Rakudo? Or implementation strategy of Rakudo that should become spec? 08:08
pmichaud anyway, sleep time here.
jnthn sleep well
tylercurtis G'night, pmichaud.
colomon moritz_: if every case is special, isn't that the same as no cases being special? ;)
o/
pmichaud tylercurtis: it's spec'd that item assignment imposes item context on its rhs, and list assignment imposes flattening list on its rhs 08:09
moritz_ tylercurtis: not quite sure. pmichaud++ got a grant for writing up much of the rakudo list/iterator implementation into the spec... don't know if that part is covered
colomon: if you look at the code, certainly not :-)
tylercurtis rakudo: say [1, 2, 3].flat.perl;
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: say (1, 2, 3).flat.perl
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3)␤»
sorear tylercurtis: a lot of the list stuff is specced mostly in tests.
pmichaud colomon: if every case is special, no case is general :)
moritz_ tylercurtis: beware of .perl, it is allowed to assume item context 08:10
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tylercurtis rakudo: .say for [1, 2, 3].flat; 08:10
pmichaud note that my @a = [1,2,3] is like my @a = flat [1,2,3] and not my @a = [1,2,3].flat
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
sorear Rakudo and niecza implement alloflags completely differently, but I doubt either one will become spec
tylercurtis .say for flat [1, 2, 3]
rakudo: .say for flat [1, 2, 3]
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: .say for flat (1, 2, 3) 08:11
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
tylercurtis somehow managed to forget about flat context.
Anyway, good night again, #perl6. Except, this time, I'm actually going to bed. 08:12
pmichaud me too.
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moritz_ slepp well, the both of you 08:13
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sorear rakudo: my ($foo, $, $bar) = (1,2,3); say $foo, $bar; 08:19
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«13␤»
sorear rakudo: say (my ($foo, $, $bar)).perl
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«(Any, Whatever.new(), Any)␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my ($foo, $, $bar) = (1,2,3); say callframe().my.keys.perl
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«("\$foo", "\$bar", "\$MAIN", "\$/", "\$_", "__CANDIDATE_LIST__", "\$!")␤»
dalek ecza: f52ccae | sorear++ | src/Niecza/Actions.pm:
Parse my ($foo, $bar)
 08:28
ecza: aa2541a | sorear++ | src/Niecza/Actions.pm:
Parse / < a e i o u > /
moritz_ std: / ; / 08:29
p6eval std 32123: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Semicolon must be quoted at /tmp/P74KBkau6c line 1:␤------> / ;⏏ /␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 115m␤»
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sorear out 08:33
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masak rakudo: say callframe().my<__CANDIDATE_LIST__>.perl 08:39
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Any␤»
masak aww
moritz_ rakudo: say callframe().my<__CANDIDATE_LIST__>.perl; multi f() { }
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Any␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say callframe().my<__CANDIDATE_LIST__>.PARROT; multi f() { } 08:40
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Perl6Scalar->␤»
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jnthn :P 08:42
Nice try to get a NPMCA :P
moritz_ rakudo: say callframe().my<__CANDIDATE_LIST__>.Int 08:43
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Method 'Int' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/kn3uswfED1␤»
moritz_ jnthn: I was more trying to find out what kind of data it holds
jnthn It's used in methods for deferal, and in wrapping
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jnthn afk for a bit 08:45
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moritz_ rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* 3600, 60, 1 10:24
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«29543␤»
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moritz_ \o/ ASCII art camelia 10:35
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tadzik hello 11:01
jnthn o/ 11:02
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takadonet morning all 12:04
masak \o 12:05
rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* 60 >>**<< reverse ^3 12:06
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Sorry, sides are of uneven length and not dwimmy.␤ in 'hyper' at line 179:CORE.setting␤ in 'hyper' at line 211:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
masak rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* (60 >>**<< reverse ^3) 12:07
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Sorry, sides are of uneven length and not dwimmy.␤ in 'hyper' at line 179:CORE.setting␤ in 'hyper' at line 211:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
flussence ^2?
moritz_ 60 xx 3
masak oh
rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* (60 <<**<< reverse ^3)
moritz_ rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* (60 xx 3 >>**<< reverse ^3)
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«29543␤»
rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Sorry, sides are of uneven length and not dwimmy.␤ in 'hyper' at line 179:CORE.setting␤ in 'hyper' at line 211:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* ((60 xx 3) >>**<< reverse ^3) 12:08
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«29543␤»
masak rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* 60 <<**<< reverse ^3
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«29543␤»
masak that's very pretty.
moritz_ say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* (60 X* reverse ^3)
rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* (60 X* reverse ^3) 12:09
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«1680␤»
masak rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.words Z* 60 X** reverse ^3
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«28800␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* (60 X** reverse ^3)
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«29543␤»
masak rakudo: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* 60 X** reverse ^3
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p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«29543␤» 12:09
moritz_ std: say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* 60 X** reverse ^3 12:10
p6eval std 32123: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤"Z*" and "X**" are non-associative and require parens at /tmp/HSg2ATv58K line 1:␤------> say [+] '08:12:23'.split(':') Z* 60 X** ⏏reverse ^3␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
masak submits rakudobug
moritz_ that's what I thought
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masak wow, #haskell is unsurpassed in giving me adequate help and unwittingly making me feel stupid at the same time. :) 12:31
in other news, every monad is an applicative functor. 12:32
moritz_ what is an applicative functor? 12:33
masak I don't know yet, but en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Appli...e_Functors
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moritz_ functors seem to be higher-order functions that apply other functions to data 12:35
like, map
masak aye, that sounds familiar.
how does that make all monads applicative functors, though? 12:36
flussence rakudo: sub x { ($^a - $^a % 60) / 60, $^a % 60 }; say x(29543)>>.&x[0,1,3]>>.fmt('%02d').join(':'); # not as nice in the other direction...
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«08:12:23␤»
masak flussence++ 12:37
flussence :D
masak someone should write a script that generates one algorithm from the other?
s/\?//
moritz_ rakudo: say ~((29543, * div 60 ... 0) X% 60) 12:39
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«23 12 8 0␤»
masak ooh 12:40
moritz_ rakudo: say ((29543, * div 60 ... 0) X% 60).reverse[1..3]>>.fmt('%02d').join(':')
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«08:12:23␤»
flussence div is integer division operator? 12:42
moritz_ rakudo: say ((29543, * div 60 ... 0) X% 60)[^3].reverse>>.fmt('%02d').join(':')
zes
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«08:12:23␤»
moritz_ yes
masak weel, yes and no.
moritz_ confused by frequent keyboard layout switch
masak div is "type-depdendent" division.
moritz_ is it?
rakudo: say 5 div 2.5
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<div>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Int $a, Int $b)␤␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/44qiWAasro␤» 12:43
masak which happens to be defined only for Int so far, I think.
moritz_ mebbe
masak but for example, equation system solving by dividing a column vector into a matrix could be 'div'.
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masak provided some library defined it as such, of course. 12:44
moritz_ curses at some paper authors who provided conflicting and ambiguous imformation in their paper 12:45
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araujo good morning 12:50
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araujo next to add 'if' to his small lang 12:50
moritz_ #perl6 seems to attract lots of people who implement their own languages (or inspires them) :-) 12:51
araujo moritz_, perl6 seems a nice language to steal ideas from too 12:53
araujo hopes TimToady doesn't read this
moritz_ araujo: I consider it a good sign if people steal from Perl 6. I kinda guess TimToady thinks likewise :-) 12:55
araujo >:] 12:56
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masak .oO( It's 2010, and I'm using Perl 6 to write my own blog engine to last me 10 years. I just love living in the future. ) 12:59
gfldex Perl 6: Going to make you rewrite your software since 2010! 13:02
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moritz_ masak: do you have a more detailed plan than "a blog system"? if yes, would you share it? 13:03
araujo masak, heh 13:04
masak absolutely. (1) download all my use.perl posts. (2) transform them into markdown (3) build a minimal static web site generator that transforms Markdown to HTML and puts css etc in the right places. (4) keep hacking on the static web site generator until it's a port of Hakyll.
I'm on (3) now.
doing (2) was an absolut Perl 5 quick-hack joy. it turned unbearable HTML into nice Markdown. and the markdown script has been confirmed to turn the Markdown back into nice HTML :) 13:06
moritz_ so, are you writing a parser now?
masak no, I'm using the standard Perl 5 implementation. 13:07
right now I want to get to step (4) as quickly as possible.
so I'm taking shortcuts.
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masak will probably end up writing a Markdown parser as part of step (4), though. feels nicer to have an all-Perl 6 solution. 13:07
and it would be nice to see how Perl 6 parses Markdown. 13:08
tadzik masak: you may want to try sexpcode :0
:)
I have a basic parser for that
masak tadzik: I'm pretty sure I prefer to write my posts in Markdown.
but I'm very open towards pooling markup formats into a Pandoc-like project. 13:09
tadzik well, markdown is more like a document-formatting
masak something that uses a common document model and can convert to and from different formats.
moritz_ should Pod6! Pod6!
masak that, too.
moritz_ s/should/shouts/
baest ahh markdown, that's why some readme on github has the extension .md :) 13:11
masak lots of sites use Markdown nowadays.
it's one of the least insane formats I've ever seen. very few actual quirks.
rakudo: say $*PID 13:12
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«12413␤»
masak alpha: say $*PID
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Contextual $*PID not found␤␤»
masak on my box 'say $*PID' prints 0 :/
can anyone else on Darwin confirm this?
moritz_ that's a surprisingly low PID? 13:13
masak too low for my taste...
florz actually, that's a non-PID ;-)
Juerd masak: Kill it! :)
masak 哈哈
colomon masak: confirmed
moritz_ wasn't there some funny behaviour if call kill(0)?
baest masak: confirmed
masak submits rakudobug
colomon, baest: thanks. you guys rock. 13:14
Juerd moritz_: Yea, it Just Works :)
moritz_ If pid equals 0, then sig is sent to every process in the process group
of the calling process.
group kill!
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masak sounds like something a religious sect would do... 13:14
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moritz_ wonders if hugme needs a GROUP HUG feature :-) 13:15
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szbalint it should have been called the koolaid parameter. 13:15
masak Italian_Plumber: every time I see you log in I get this sudden urge to jump on mushrooms and turtles.
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masak ooh! #phasers later tonight! 13:17
moritz_ set #phasers to stun!
masak what about a #cpan6-sketch this week?
Alias_: ping
Italian_Plumber and save princesses? 13:18
masak except she's never in the castle I think she is :/ 13:19
ETOOMANYDAMNCASTLES
Italian_Plumber You should never save the princess: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLZFexXiJsM 13:20
moritz_ has saved one princess, and is happy now
or maybe she saved me? not sure yet :-) 13:21
masak preferably, a little bit of both :) 13:22
Italian_Plumber: I watched half of it before realizing I'm at work. :) seems he accidentally saved the wrong princess, though. 13:23
moritz_ probably :-)
masak impressive what effort must've been put into that video. :)
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Kodi my %s is Set = a => 1, b => 2; # This should be allowed, right? 13:24
Er, I mean something like: my %s is Set = a => True, b => True; 13:25
The question is if you then do: %s = c => True. Would that violate immutability?
moritz_ why should it? 13:26
hrm, because Set... container types shouldn't be immutable
Kodi moritz_: I'm inclined to think you should be able to do '%s = c => True' but not '%s<c> = True'. I'm not sure that makes sense, though. 13:27
moritz_ Kodi: it kinda makes sense from an implementation point of view. It does not from a user's point of view 13:28
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Kodi In the same way that if $x holds a Date, you can assign anything you like to $x even though Dates are immutable. Then again, $x itself is never a Date but actually a Scalar, which is mutable. 13:28
moritz_: It actually turns out to be difficult to implement this way.
What do you think would make sense from the user's point of view?
moritz_ a mutable version of the type 13:29
Kodi moritz_: I.e., KeySet?
moritz_ Kodi: I'm not too familiar with this zoo of types... but kinda like a Set, only in mutable 13:30
or not using it as a container type
Kodi KeySet is supposed to be exactly a mutable Set.
moritz_ then "yes" 13:31
Kodi So do you think S02 is in the wrong when it says you ought to be able to bind %x to a Set?
Or is it that binding would be permissible and assingment not? 13:32
moritz_ no; I think it's perfectly fine, but not what the user typically wants
Kodi I guess I'm still confused about what kinds of assignment to a '%s is Set' should be allowed. Now I'm thinking: no kind at all; if you wanted assignment you should've used a KeySet. 13:36
moritz_ that's probably correct
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[Sec] Is there anything like POE for perl6 already? 13:43
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tadzik I don't think so 13:43
masak there's just S17.
perlcabal.org/syn/S17.html
moritz_ TimToady mentioned that event queues could be expressed with feed operators and object pipes somehow - haven't quite understood it though :-) 13:44
[Sec] masak: is S17 already working in rakudo-star? :) 13:48
masak [Sec]: no.
moritz_ parrot segfaults if enable threads and clone the interpreter. 13:49
masak moritz_: you mentioned object pipes in your interview. what's that?
moritz_ masak: it's what feed operators use under the hood
[Sec] ok, thanks. Back to p5 then it is.
masak oh, so it's in the Monad/Powershell sense, then. 13:50
moritz_ right
masak [Sec]: you're welcome back later, when we've hacked a bit more :)
(or earlier, if you want to help)
[Sec] i really would like to use it, hope you get more of the spec working soon :) 13:51
masak welcome to the club :)
right now we're on the lookout for people who can take what we implement of the spec already, test it to its limits, and give us feedback :) 13:52
that way, both the spec and the implementation will improve faster.
*implementations
takadonet trying to parse a file with 12000 records with my perl 6 grammar..... been 35 mins and still not done yet 13:53
but it has not crashed yet!
masak takadonet: you should have a status indicator of some kind :)
takadonet masak: i should.... all well 13:54
gottreu masak, how would those for whom you're on the lookout get involved? 13:55
or get started I should say perhaps?
takadonet masak: Do you know a better way of grabbing everything till you see a particular record separator then : <-["//\n"]>+ ? 13:56
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moritz_ \n doens't work yet in regexes 13:56
takadonet .... same to work for me... 13:57
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moritz_ rakudo: say ?("\n" ~~ /<[\n]>/) 13:58
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«0␤»
masak gottreu: that's a very good question. speaking from experience, I would recommend being driven by curiosity and playfulness. :)
moritz_ sorry, meant in character classes, not regexes in general
rakudo: say ?("\\" ~~ /<[\n]>/)
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«0␤» 13:59
masak gottreu: if the question is more "where to start?", I have a number of projects that could use a helping hand.
moritz_ rakudo: say ?("n" ~~ /<[\n]>/)
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«1␤»
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gottreu masak, such as? 14:00
masak gottreu: well, I have a project called 'pun' which could use a bit of reviving.
it's good because it's very limited in scope, and should be simple to get working again. 14:01
moritz_ YOU_ARE_HERE!
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masak the basic idea is to emulate 'perl6 -n' and 'perl6 -p', which don't exist yet. 14:01
the old version of that project was written before perl6 was installed globally.
so it should actually be *easier* nowadays.
basically, it throws a 'while ($_ = $*IN.get).defined { ... }' block around the provided program. 14:02
gottreu: with me so far?
moritz_ right; relying on a `perl6' executable in $PATH is a good idea nowadays
masak aye.
moritz_ and shouldn't it be for lines() { ... } nowadays? 14:03
gottreu i'm with you on -p and -n flags, not so with you on Perl6 syntax
masak gottreu: github.com/masak/pun
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masak gottreu: but you know how -p and -n work in Perl 5? 14:03
because that's all you need. Perl 6 syntax can be learnt along the way. :)
gottreu yeah, perl5 one-liners are the majority of my perl programs 14:04
masak then you can see the use for something like pun.
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masak moritz_: YOU_ARE_HERE would be the proper way to do it in Rakudo itself. just provide alternate settings, and you're done. I wouldn't know where to begin making such a thing work, though. 14:10
tadzik what is YOU_ARE_HERE by the way? 14:14
masak it's a special term that's magically substituted for the user's program.
one finds it at the end of the normal setting, which means that the program runs in the scope of all the goodies in the setting. 14:15
the idea is to eventually implement -n and -p with YOU_ARE_HERE insside a readline loop.
er, not readline; $*IN.get
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moritz_ right; the idea is that -n desugars to for lines() { YOU_ARE_HERE } 14:26
what I don't know is how to achieve that with a command line switch
masak feels to me like that goes into the PCT/nqp-rx level of things. 14:27
which I suspect is part of why it hasn't been implemented long ago.
moritz_ there are really many reasons: 14:28
tadzik there's some nice set of things in /usr/lib/parrot/2.7.0/library/, can they be used in Perl 6 easily, like Perl 5 modules via blizkost? 14:29
moritz_ 1) command line parsing is done in a way that's completely opaque to me, somewhere in NQP or PCT or HLL/foo or wherever
2) YOU_ARE_HERE is pretty new too
3) it looks like not quite a small project
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moritz_ tadzik: they can be used, but usually require a wrapper 14:30
TimToady phenny, say something nice to me. 14:31
phenny TimToady: 07:46Z <tylercurtis> tell TimToady STD's statement_control:if is lovely. Thank you for that. It was a pleasure to write an action method for.
TimToady thank you
tadzik like Digest::MD5 does?
moritz_ exactly
tadzik tempting
moritz_ indeed
tadzik especially TAP::Harness 14:32
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masak here's a tweet that is making the rounds today: twitter.com/vdichev/status/24467980734 14:59
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 15:36
moritz_ good am, pm 15:37
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colomon \o 15:38
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masak gm, pm 15:40
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zby rakudo: require Foo::Bar 15:41
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Can not find sub Foo::Bar␤ in main program body at line 1␤» 15:42
pmichaud require nyi, I think.
moritz_ and even it were, require now requries an explicit import list
zby aha - I wanted to check if it is
in the current rakudo
moritz_ since importing is done into the lexical scope, and that is immutable at runtime
so you'd need to say something like require Foo::Bar <sub $variable>; 15:43
which then creates stubs in the lexpad at compile time, and does the actual loading and importing at runtime
zby rakudo: require Foo::Bar <sub $variable>; 15:44
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«Can not find sub Foo::Bar␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
moritz_ I worked on require but couldn't the argument list to parse
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zby OK - I just wanted to check if it is implemented now, I am waiting for it before I try to rewrite my mini web framework in P6 :) 15:45
masak std: "foo" . "bar" 15:47
p6eval std 32123: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~ at /tmp/yOgpb6uQjc line 1:␤------> "foo" . ⏏"bar"␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 115m␤»
masak rakudo: "foo" . "bar"
p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "\"foo\" . \"b"␤»
masak submits LTA rakudobug 15:48
zby: does your mini web framework generate static web pages?
zby no
moritz_ std: require Foo::Bar 'a', 'b'; 15:49
p6eval std 32123: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/yMY3j__FDO line 1:␤------> require Foo::Bar ⏏'a', 'b';␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ statement modifier loop␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:02 117m␤»
masak then you might want to consider waiting for that reason too. memory/speed/stability issues aren't completely ironed out yet.
moritz_ std: require Foo::Bar <a b>;
p6eval std 32123: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Bogus term at /tmp/m_WG2lcMBj line 1:␤------> require Foo::Bar <a b>⏏;␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'b' used at line 1␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
moritz_ wtf? 15:50
zby well - I know it would not be 'production ready' for a long time, but it seems like the first thing to do in P6
I mean like a nice first thing to do
moritz_ evalbot rebuild is not yet switched to git :( 15:51
and rebuilding STD conflicts with the installed STD for niecza and mildew 15:54
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masak zby: I'm building a static page generator as we speak. it's going almost unreasonably well. :) 15:55
zby nice - so I guess you have your templating engine done 15:56
is there a plan for PSGI implementation? 15:58
moritz_ yes; mberends is working on one 15:59
zby These are the two prerequisites for my framework, without templating it still can work though, and without PSGI I think I can make it work on bare HTTP::Simple or something
masak zby: I'm piggybacking a Perl 5 Markdown->HTML converter right now. 16:00
zby: and for templating I'm using simple variable substitution right now.
moritz_ there is a working HTML::Template in the web repository 16:01
masak zby: there's Hitomi though, which I still think could be really nice.
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masak I hope as few people as possible use the HTML::Template module :) 16:01
moritz_ why?
masak because we developed it as a stop-gap solution for November, with the view that it should be replaced by something better eventually. 16:02
and because I'm personally not sold on the syntax.
moritz_ likes HTML::Template::Compiled for p5 16:03
which is like HTML::Template, but enables more concise syntax, and solves the Unicode issues that H::T has
tinita++ # for HTML::Template::Compiled
zby what I don't like about HTML::Template is that you need to convert your data into structures that it can swallow 16:04
moritz_ what else would you use a controller for? :-)
zby with TT you just need to prepare the data in any form, you just need it to be complete 16:05
moritz_ but that's often not what happens in practise
what people often do is to pass some DBIC objects to the templates
which means that method calls in the template trigger database actions
which goes completely against MVC, and makes proper error handling pretty hard 16:06
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zby maybe - but thats their problem 16:07
moritz_ well, that's easy to say
zby I like the fact that I can just provide the data and forget
I don't need to think how it will be used 16:08
how it will be iterated in the template
moritz_ when I tried to produce some websites with Catalyst and TT, I had to walk through all the objects anyway to avoid DB calls from the template
so I could have just as well transformed them into what HTML::Template needs 16:09
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zby maybe I just have not yet been bitten by this - so I use it because it is more convenient 16:12
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moritz_ sprixel: say 1 + 2 16:15
p6eval sprixel 32123: OUTPUT«Can't open perl script "sprixel.pl": No such file or directory␤»
moritz_ highlight: 3
p6eval Please use /msg p6eval 3
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dalek albot: 3841f5c | moritz++ | evalbot.pl:
update paths, and avoid relative paths
 16:24
ggoebel phenny: tell sorear where does eval and running the spectest fall in your roadmap for niecza? 16:25
phenny ggoebel: yeah, sure, whatever
tadzik moritz_: why star 2010.07, not 08>?
ggoebel phenny: tell phenny to be nice :-)
phenny Hey, I'm not as stupid as Monty you know!
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diakopter moritz_++ cruft-- 16:31
(likely dangerous to run on the vps) cruft, I mean :) 16:32
though I guess no more dangerous than... never mind. 16:33
dalek kudo: 51e3ff4 | pmichaud++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
Switch infix:<:=> to use list assignment, resolving RT #77462.
 16:35
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masak I wish to call attention to this problem: 16:49
rakudo: my $a = 42; say "$a</closetag>"
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p6eval rakudo c71489: OUTPUT«postcircumfix:<{ }> not defined for type Int()␤ in main program body at line 1␤» 16:49
masak I don't have a proposed solution. it's just annoying.
pmichaud rakudo: my $a = 42; say "{$a}</closetag>"; 16:54
diakopter rakudo: my $a = 42; say "$a\</closetag>"
heh
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«42</closetag>␤»
rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«postcircumfix:<{ }> not defined for type Int()␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
diakopter (mine made the same error)
(which is confusing to me, fwiw)
pmichaud \ is unspaces 16:55
tadzik wklej.org/id/388892/ -- what does he want?
pmichaud *unspace
diakopter hm, even in "" I guess
pmichaud well, when parsing a postfix, yes.
tadzik it works when I change '(' to ';', why?
pmichaud tadzik: having a token called 'list' is likely causing the difficulty. 16:56
tadzik duh 16:57
diakopter also, try changing some of those to rule instead of token?
masak diakopter: right, unspace. the fact that that fairly obvious fix doesn't work is extra frustrating...
pmichaud don't need 'rule', since the spaces are being explicitly accounted for.
tadzik now I changed list to leest, and I get Method '!cursor_names' not found for invocant of class 'List' 16:58
pmichaud did you change <list> also?
tadzik bah, not all of them
diakopter well, the case of \s between '(' and expr is not accounted for, as well as \s between expr and ')' 16:59
tadzik yeah, it's ok now. So, token called list is forbidden intentionally?
pmichaud since there's already a built-in method 'list' that is used for other things, declaring a token named 'list' ends up overriding it.
tadzik I see
it's just a class, with just methods 17:00
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diakopter tadzik: see my msg above about \s 17:01
tadzik diakopter: yeah, I'm considering it 17:02
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makkksimal hi. my anyone point me to some documentatio on how to dynamically create classes in perl6? 17:10
diakopter eval "" ?
masak makkksimal: eventually you might be able to do that with just metaclass manipulations. I don't know how possible that is today. 17:12
makkksimal: the best place to investigate that would be the Rakudo source, since that's how Rakudo does it.
diakopter masak: oh yeah, anon classes
and then givem a name 17:13
moritz_ rakudo: my $meta_class = 1.HOW; say $meta_class.new_class('Foo').WHAT
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Foo()␤»
masak that's a good idea.
didn't think of that.
diakopter oh, new_class ?
masak makkksimal: what diakopter and moritz_ said.
diakopter what's new_class
is that spec
moritz_ rakudo: my $meta_class = 1.HOW; my $c = $meta_class.new_class('Foo'); $c.add_method('bla', method { say "in method bla" }); $c.finalize; $c.new.bla 17:14
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Method 'add_method' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/2lkEGXtbB9␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $meta_class = 1.HOW; my $c = $meta_class.new_class('Foo'); $c.^add_method('bla', method { say "in method bla" }); $c.^finalize; $c.new.bla
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p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Method 'finalize' not found for invocant of class 'ClassHOW'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/f4rSppue96␤» 17:14
moritz_ rakudo: my $meta_class = 1.HOW; my $c = $meta_class.new_class('Foo'); $c.^add_method('bla', method { say "in method bla" }); $c.^compose; $c.new.bla 17:15
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«in method bla␤»
diakopter nice.
moritz_ that's a demonstration of programmatically generating a class, adding a method and calling that method
makkksimal thanks moritz_ that will help
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thepler is there a method/op on Hash that is similar to Moose::Autobox::Hash->hslice ? 17:24
that is: "give me a new Hash with a subset of the pairs" ? 17:25
moritz_ (@keys Z=> %hash{@keys}).hash
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moritz_ maybe %hash{@keys}:kv also works at some poing 17:27
*point
thepler moritz_: cool. I thought of %new = %hash.pairs.grep({ .key eq [|] @keys })
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thepler was trying to think of a better name than hsilce 17:31
masak rakudo: my %h = c => 3, a => 1, b => 2; .say for %h{sort keys %h} 17:45
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
masak \o/
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masak are state variables disallowed outside of a block, or simply equivalent to ordinary lexicals? 18:00
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tadzik rakudo: say "+" ~~ /\w/ # what? 18:04
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«␤»
masak + is not a \w
tadzik is there a class with \w and symbols like +?
masak quite possibly. 18:05
could you be more specific? :)
tadzik hmm
chars, digits and symbols?
masak gee, symbols.
diakopter like, non-whitespace? :) 18:06
masak <[ \w + \- * / ]>, perhaps.
tadzik :F whatever :)
masak tadzik: look, are you asking the question or not? :)
tadzik diakopter: more or less, but I'll probably end up with non-whitespace-non-parens
masak tadzik: if you are, please describe what you mean by chars *and* symbols. 18:07
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gottreu wouldn't \S be non-whitespace, or do inverted (or negated?) classes not count? 18:09
masak \S would be full of symbols, indeed. 18:10
including all of \w
hercynium quick rakudo/ubuntu question: what package(s) should I install to get opengl support?
masak rakudo: sub foo(Pair @a) {}; foo([]) 18:11
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '@a'; expected Positional[Pair] but got Array instead␤ in 'foo' at line 22:/tmp/yR3anIvx_B␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/yR3anIvx_B␤»
hercynium this is more out of curiosity than to be used :)
gottreu wouldn't it be full of non-glyphs too?
masak o.O
masak submits rakudobug
rakudo: say Array ~~ Positional
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak oh, it's the typed array thing. 18:12
look, can't we make an exception for literal arrays?
I think it would help.
rakudo: sub foo(Pair @a) {}; foo([1 => 2])
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '@a'; expected Positional[Pair] but got Array instead␤ in 'foo' at line 22:/tmp/7AyNsFjbKq␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/7AyNsFjbKq␤»
masak this really looks like it should work...
ingy /[\s\S]/ is the portable /./s 18:14
O
HAI!
masak ingy: yes, but there's absolutely no need for that idiom in Perl 6 :)
ingy where are all the acemists? 18:15
hercynium waves to ingy "HAI"
I am an aspiring acmeist, which perhaps, in a meta-sort-of-way... makes me one? 18:16
ingy :D
ingy buggers off to finish a python port
18:24 AndreasX joined
hercynium OK, answered my earlier question: libglut3-dev 18:30
I'm giving a demo of rakudo * to Boston.PM tonight and I want to have an answer for all the options people may ask about :) 18:31
masak hercynium++ 18:33
hercynium: you'll get another karma point if you make an OpenGL demo using Rakudo :)
hercynium well, I will probably yoink some code, just to run it and make people go "ooooooo" 18:34
18:34 AndreasX left
tadzik after running it with Rakudo, it'd rather be o.. o.. o.. o.. o.. o.... 18:34
hercynium but my focus will be on using the repl to show different ways of doing things
tadzik++
tadzik bah, writing a lisp compiler is harder than I expected 18:35
sorear good * #perl6
phenny sorear: 16:25Z <ggoebel> tell sorear where does eval and running the spectest fall in your roadmap for niecza?
tadzik s/lisp/stupid lispalike/
18:39 rindolf joined
rindolf Hi all. 18:39
sorear phenny: tell ggoebel Nowhere yet 18:40
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when ggoebel is around.
masak greetings, rindolf.
rindolf masak: what's up?
masak rindolf: I'm happy because I'm making a blog engine in Perl 6. :)
rindolf masak: ah.
masak rindolf: what's up yourself?
rindolf masak: I've started to work on a Catalyst-based blog engine. 18:41
But I've neglected it.
But it's not dead yet.
masak: I've built an .src.rpm of lp_solve-5.5.2.0 for Mandriva.
Now I'd like to put it on the build-system.
masak ok.
hercynium also curious: JIT - does it work? I noticed it's not enabled in Configure.pl's output 18:42
rindolf I needed it because I'd like to write a solver for www.brainbashers.com/kakurasu.asp
masak ah. 18:43
heh. the static page generator sounds cute when it accesses the hard drive. from the sound of it, it makes two blog posts a second. 18:50
#phasers in 10?
tadzik . o O ( trk trk... trk trk... trk trk... trk trk...) 18:52
masak yes, like that. 18:53
rakudo: say "abcde.fgh.ijkl".subst(/ \. .+? $ /, "")
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«abcde␤»
masak :(
masak submits rakudobug
oh wait. that's just me being silly. 18:54
un-submit.
rakudo: say "abcde.fgh.ijkl".subst(/ \. <-[.]>+ $ /, "")
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«abcde.fgh␤»
masak man, does real world code bring out bugs. in Rakudo, and in masak's brain :)
colomon real world code++ 18:55
masak buubot: karma code
buubot masak: code has karma of -3
colomon (busy working on ABC.pm while waiting for a $work download....)
masak code++
colomon #phasers in T-2 min ? 18:58
19:00 hercynium left
masak now now now 19:00
be there or be ❏ 19:01
19:04 Italian_Plumber left
colomon square and shadowed? 19:05
masak right. square AND shadowed.
PerlJam yes, covert operatives will follow you everywhere.
19:07 tomaw left
colomon rakudo: my $m = "hello world" ~~ /^ .*?[.o.*?] $/; say $m.perl 19:10
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "hello world",␤ to => 11,␤)␤»
colomon ack 19:11
is it expected that we now need to use @( ) around arrays in a match variable?
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ant ah nuts 19:12
19:12 ant left, makkksimal joined
moritz_ colomon: yes 19:13
mberends Does tools/test_summary.pl run ok with everyone? All recent checkouts have been complaining that fudge is being called incorrectly (its Usage message appears)
moritz_ mberends: that means that some test files are missing
pmichaud I haven't tried tools/test_summary.pl in quite a while 19:14
19:14 flussence left
moritz_ mberends: is your t/spec/ a git repo? have you run Configure.pl recently? 19:14
19:14 flussence joined
flussence (I need to rtfm for irssi some time...) 19:14
mberends moritz_: yes, just updated a few minutes ago.
moritz_ mberends: did you rm -rf t/spec/ at some point to allow it to become a git repo? 19:15
if not, it still tracks the dead pugs svn
colomon moritz_: is that spec behavior, or a rakudo limitation?
moritz_ colomon: spec 19:16
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mberends moritz_: no. thanks for the tip, will re-check everything out :) 19:16
moritz_ colomon: otherwise there would be no difference in iterating over the result from (.)**2 and (.)(.) 19:17
colomon moritz_++
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aCiD2 Hey, something returned from MiniDBI is coming back as a Str, but it's from a SERIAL column (so I'd expect an Int back). 19:19
I'm guessing I'll have to do the cast myself for now, doing +$id gives me a Num though, not an Int 19:20
moritz_ aCiD2: then call the .Int method
rakudo: say "123".Int.What
rakudo: say "123".Int.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Method 'What' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/92I7GOY0VD␤»
rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
moritz_ aCiD2: it's a known (and long-standing) bug in Rakudo that numification isn't smart enough
aCiD2 Ah
19:21 plainhao left
colomon moritz_: not so, that's fixed 19:21
rakudo: say (+"123").WHAT
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
colomon p6eval way way behind again? 19:22
wait, wrong bug.
19:23 timbunce joined
colomon sorry, I'm getting confused. 19:23
p6eval is up to date.
I think +"123" being an Int is on the list of things to be fixed shortly, rather than things just fixed.
rakudo: my @a = 1...3 ; say (+@a).WHAT 19:24
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
19:24 tomaw left
colomon that's the one that was just fixed. 19:24
aCiD2 pastie.org/1158938 does anyone know why the second method call fails (with new-from-row in), but the first works? 19:25
I'll just get the exact error, but it complains about not received an Assosciative
minal type check failed for parameter '%row'; expected Associative but got MusicBrainz::Entity::Country instead. am I calling it wrong, it seems like the class is being sent where %row should be 19:26
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dalek albot: d43d0a4 | moritz++ | evalbot.pl:
more git migration
 19:37
pmichaud (pastie.org) 503 Service unavailable 19:38
afk, kid pickup
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moritz_ rakudo: say "now from git" 19:40
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«now from git␤»
masak tries to read the enums spec and the enums spectest at the same time 19:41
19:42 alester left
dalek albot: 0526c90 | moritz++ | / (4 files):
config file updates
 19:43
19:44 rindolf left, rindolf joined
tadzik could note be a string method, just like say is? 19:48
It'd be nice to be able to write @foo.perl.note just like @foo.perl.say
masak +1 19:49
dalek albot: f488637 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
add some more rebuild scripts
masak tadzik: make a patch, and I will guerilla-apply it. then we'll spec it :)
tadzik I can write it if everyone likes
PerlJam tadzik: ask forgiveness rather than permission :)
tadzik yay, fun!
19:49 yoasif joined
tadzik also I has a working toylisp compiler :) 19:50
PerlJam tadzik: (that's a +1 from me, in case it wasn't clear)
masak more like a meta-+1
19:51 Sanitoeter joined 20:01 thundergnat joined
tadzik masak: what shall I do with the patch? 20:02
masak tadzik: nopaste it, and I'll review it.
ab5tract ok, so i have an idea for a project, and i think perl6 might be an ideal means of executing it 20:03
Tene ab5tract: Oh? What's the idea? 20:04
ab5tract are there any existing examples in perl6 for a 'pre-format' parser (a la Markdown)?
a mutable translation layer
tadzik masak: wklej.org/id/389050/
masak looks
ab5tract in other words, a pre-format that can have its rules completely rewritten: its syntax, keywords, and effects of translation are all defined at runtime via config files 20:05
tadzik ab5tract: well, I'd say it's just a matter of fanciness of the parser 20:06
oh, runtime-runtime. But still, yes
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Tene Existing examples? Not sure. 20:07
Completely feasible, though. 20:08
Depends on how mutable you want the grammar to be.
PerlJam for some reason I immediatly think of pmwiki :) 20:09
tadzik hrm
Perl 6 grammar might be an example
masak I still think making a script that can reverse a Perl 6 one-liner would be a neat trick. :) it would really help to have easy access to the parse tree, though. 20:10
someone please make a Perl 6 module that turns a Perl 6 program string into a parse tree!
tadzik --target=PAST? :)
20:10 lichtkind joined
masak hm. 20:11
maybe one can work with that, yes.
tadzik like -MO=Deparse I think
lichtkind soryy to biother is any planetsix people here?
thundergnat Hello perl6,
lichtkind hai thundergnat
tadzik lichtkind: ywis
hello thundergnat
lichtkind tadzik: you are?
tadzik lichtkind: I think so
I mean, my blag is there 20:12
lichtkind no i mean the admin of that site
tadzik ah
thundergnat I've been exploring around some of the less explicitly defined areas of the spec and have found a bunch of oddities
lichtkind my old blog was there too
but since use.perl died i need to get a reset to my new blog
thundergnat std: my $x; $x &&= 1; say $x;
p6eval std : OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
thundergnat rakudo: my $x; $x &&= 1; say $x;
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<&&>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $a, Mu $b)␤␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
dalek kudo: 04ce047 | masak++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
[core/Mu] added .note method

Contributed by tadzik++		 20:13
masak submits rakudobug
thundergnat++
thundergnat std: my $x; $x ^^= 1; say $x;
p6eval std : OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
masak thundergnat: however, that's a runtime error. in general STD won't dig up those.
thundergnat rakudo: my $x; $x ^^= 1; say $x;
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
masak whoa there!
lichtkind sorear: can i get a short chat?
masak submits rakudobug
thundergnat I 've got a bunch 20:14
masak keep going.
thundergnat rakudo: $x; $x ?&= 1;
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$x' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/iaFRw_ZZj2:22)␤»
thundergnat oops
rakudo: my $x; $x ?&= 1; say $x;
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<?&>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Any $a, Any $b)␤␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
masak that one goes into the first one. 20:15
thundergnat rakudo: my $x; $x ?|= 1; say $x;
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<?|>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Any $a, Any $b)␤␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
masak and that one too.
thundergnat rakudo: my $x; $x ?^= 1; say $x;
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<?^>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Any $a, Any $b)␤␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
thundergnat again
masak aye.
only the Null PMC access is separate so far.
thundergnat rakudo: my ($x, $y); $x = 5; $x min= $y; say $x; 20:16
this is ok
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«5␤»
masak aye.
thundergnat but different from:
rakudo: my ($x, $y); $x = 5; $x max= $y; say $x;
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
masak submits rakudobug
thundergnat++
gottreu [[:graph:]] Any printable character, excluding a space.
thundergnat spec say undef evaluates to -Inf
masak aye.
thundergnat Any interest in a test file for assignment metaops? That's how I found all these. 20:17
There isn't one in roast.
pmichaud rakudo: my ($x, $y); $x = 5; say $x max $y;
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
pmichaud rakudo: my ($x, $y); $x = 5; say $x min $y;
p6eval rakudo 51e3ff: OUTPUT«5␤» 20:18
masak thundergnat: sure, can't hurt.
thundergnat It will need to be cleaned up a bit. I've got some cruft in there.
metaops.assignment.t gist.github.com/579693 20:19
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thundergnat it also tests for the short circuiting //=, ||= and &&= 20:20
all of which fail :-( 20:21
(they don't short circuit)
masak ISTR that's a known deficiency. 20:22
I think it has something to do with the way metaop babby are formed.
20:22 risou left
thundergnat I may have made some incorrect assumptions/interpretations of STD but I _think_ these are all reasonable test. 20:23
s
ab5tract Tene: pretty mutable :)
masak thundergnat: seems so to me. 20:24
pmichaud We're going to need to do a bit of rethinking and refactoring to properly handle short-circuit ops and chained ops.
ab5tract ive never written a parser before, but perl6 seems like a good fit for it from what i understand of the grammars
pmichaud and we may need some additional support from the language spec
masak ab5tract: definitely.
dalek kudo: f5e67ec | masak++ | src/core/IO.pm:
Revert "Refactor slurp($filename) to use Parrot's .readall($filename);"

This reverts commit 77a72a31234229635f720f853d59b865342df17a, since
  trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1749 is now fixed.		 20:25
ab5tract its not totaly related, but i think someone needs to submit a perl6 solution for this project: www.codequarterly.com/code-challenges/markup/
not the least because it would provide me a nice example to start working from ;)
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ab5tract masak, any "best examples" of p6 grammar utilization that you might point me too? 20:26
colomon thundergnat: looks like a lot of that stuff is already tested? for instance, acking on **= shows tests in S03-operators/assign.t, S03-operators/autovivification.t, and S06-operator-overloading/workout.t
20:26 tadzik left
colomon ab5tract: agreed! 20:27
masak ab5tract: probably the book.
colomon ab5tract: I've been keeping that stuff open in a Chrome window on my laptop since I first saw it appear.
masak ab5tract: there's a chapter on parsin JSON in there.
ab5tract colomon, you mean the code quarterly thing?
colomon ab5tract: yes.
Tene ab5tract: perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/2...d-actions/ isn't a bad place to start, and I think that the example there has been imported into the book
colomon thundergnat: though you seem to be a lot more systematic! 20:28
masak ab5tract: github.com/perl6/book/blob/master/s...ammars.pod
ab5tract masak, oh yes, i remember that now. a json parser in half a page of code or so
colomon ab5tract: it feels like a perfect challenge for p6
masak aye :)
thundergnat colomon: probably some overlap. I was just including all assigment metaops for my own edification
tadzik1 Tene: it hasn't been yet
tadzik1 ashamed
20:28 tadzik1 is now known as tadzik
thundergnat I may have missed a few, but I think I got most allowed by spec. 20:29
masak thundergnat: thanks for the reports. it's all filed away in RT now.
thundergnat The spec is a little vague and hand-wavey about the whole assignment metaop thing. :-) IMO 20:30
masak I'm sure suggestions for clarifications are welcome. 20:31
thundergnat: do you have a commit bit?
thundergnat no
masak someone give thundergnat commit bit to perl6? 20:32
masak doesn't know how
thundergnat I'm kind of a git newbie...
masak who isn't? :P
thundergnat newbie git? hur hur
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masak thundergnat: allow me to heartily recommend www.newartisans.com/2008/04/git-fro...om-up.html 20:33
thundergnat: I've read it something like three times.
following along and doing the examples on the command line helped me a lot.
thundergnat masak: thanks, I'll take a look at it.
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wolverian what's my best bet for parsing xml with rakudo* at the moment? 20:34
drake1 hello, I just wrote a new stdio for super IPC www.gangsterfreak.com/file:stdio_test . Maybe perl6 can use it in the new I/O system
wolverian (the file is small, so speed is no concern, but I would prefer correctness over hacks. :)
ab5tract Tene, masak thanks for the pointers
Tene wolverian: probably use a perl 5 library. I don't know of any native Perl 6 support for XML yet.
wolverian Tene: I haven't used perl 5 libraries from rakudo yet. how do I do that? 20:35
Tene wolverian: I haven't kept up to date on that at all. I saw someone using GTK through Perl 5 earlier, though.
tadzik I'm afraid Perl 6 XML does not work, while Blizkost can't run anything from Perl 5
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tadzik tjs.azalayah.net/ser.html -- XML seems not to be working 20:36
wolverian blizkost is the perl5 bridge? but it does not work? :)
tadzik wolverian: it doesn't always work
sadly :(
wolverian okay.
Tene a very simple XML parser would be pretty easy to hack out, and would work for many small documents. 20:37
masak there have been several XML parsers written over the past few years. at least one sits in the ecosystem.
Tene but that's not what you want.
tadzik Maybe it's time to fix the existing one before *
masak people seem to love writing XML parsers with Perl 6 grammars :)
wolverian masak: I saw the one I assume tadzik linked to -- it doesn't build.
masak yes, it's probably bitrotted.
tadzik somebody was looking for a small project to help, no? 20:38
like pun
20:39 rindolf left 20:40 rindolf joined
masak aye. 20:42
20:42 Ross joined
masak it was gottreu++ who asked. 20:43
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drake1 well, it's the perfect capability to execute C objects when you don't want to try to keep up. Im off for now. bye 21:03
21:03 drake1 left
gottreu tadzik, possibly. 21:04
tadzik gottreu: you may want to take a look at this XML parser. Even if you'll have to come here for help in half a cases, that'd still be huge help 21:05
masak decides he really likes "somefilename".&open(:w) 21:08
very chic. very Ruby :)
also, 'given "somefilename".&open(:w) { .say("this"); .say("that"); .close }' 21:11
masak considers writing to PerlVogue :)
gottreu tadzik, to which XML parser does _this_ refer?
tadzik gottreu: the one on modules.perl6.org I guess 21:12
masak: been reading stackoverflow, didn't you? :P)
masak tadzik: no, why? :)
did someone use that trick there?
tadzik yep :)
masak dang, I thought I was first...
tadzik and some people on reddit said "well, I must say I like the Perl example..." 21:13
gottreu I bet smalltalk was firstier.
masak prolly.
tadzik masak: stackoverflow.com/questions/3538156...27#3539727 21:14
masak yes, clearly fishing for Ruby votes :) 21:15
gottreu from that link "Perl actually makes me sad. No language ever needs a keyword 'given'. What next, 'beholdeth' or 'insomuchas'" What kind of person considers 'given' to be archaic or rarely used? 21:16
tadzik exactly the kind of persons you shouldn't care about :) 21:17
I always say so to myself
gottreu no no! emotional investment will reap great rewards! 21:18
actually i think REXX have given/when
flussence given is like JS' let, but useful 21:19
(I think they've actually deprecated let now due to its uselessness) 21:20
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flussence (or was it "with"?) 21:20
oh, it was. 21:21
masak 'with', yes.
flussence let is something to do with iterating.
masak I've always liked 'given', so I don't care much if others dislike it.
people will always be skeptical to things they haven't tasted before.
tadzik yeah 21:22
OH NOES WHY NOT JUST SWITCH-CASE
masak and there's actually a reason.
flussence "given" is grammatically loose enough to allow it to be used for more than one thing :) 21:23
sbp I like how you "switched case" to ask that question
masak or many reasons, even.
sbp++ # groan
tadzik "given something do something" sounds better than "switch something case something"
sbp: nice pun :)
PerlJam But computers don't care how it sounds? Why should programmers? ;)
masak tadzik: yes -- A04 says that control structures are usually verb-y. except switch/case which is named after what it is, not what it does. 21:24
it's a bit like naming a looping construct 'loop'. oh wait. 21:25
bad example :P
tadzik :)
masak it's like having constructs called 'for-loop' and 'goto-statement'. it looks a bit silly. 21:26
and it reads not-as-well.
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PerlJam yeah, I think "loop" should be renamed. It should definitely be called "iterate" instead. :) 21:29
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Tene do-stuff-many-times { ... } 21:32
masak "loop" is alright. it's a verb too. I was just being silly.
Tene Speaking of naming conventions, there's always www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=co...1169#comic 21:33
masak heh.
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flussence I guess if someone doesn't like the current names, they can make their own control structures up anyway 21:37
rakudo: sub don't(&a) { return Mu }; don't { loop {} }; say 'alive' 21:39
p6eval rakudo f5e67e: OUTPUT«alive␤»
masak \o/ 21:40
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diakopter wow. they ain't kidding. firefox4 beats chrome7 greatly on mozilla's new benchmark "kraken" 21:41
sjohnson hi dudes 21:42
masak hi sjohnson 21:44
sjohnson :]
#perl6, the happiest place on earth
araujo :) 21:46
dalek odel: 7e480bb | mberends++ | java/ (16 files):
[java] add Runtime/Ops.java, add ThreadContext into all Representations
21:47 Mowah left
masak sjohnson: well, "rakudo" *does* mean "paradise"... 21:48
I just pushed the enums patch. 21:53
it's not perfect, but it gave a clean spectest run, and we can bicker over details later :)
at least now it's in Rakudo. again.
masak zzz
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sjohnson see ya masak 21:54
masak 'night
21:54 masak left
lichtkind bye masak 21:54
tadzik well, I'll go to 21:55
g'night
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thowe hello 21:56
lichtkind hi thowe
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thowe I may not know where to look, but I am wondering if there is a PostgreSQL lib and a CGI lib yet for Perl6? I need to write the IPv6 version of a tool we use at work and I thought I might do it in Perl6 instead of RUby... 21:57
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dalek kudo: 5ac20e0 | masak++ | src/glue/enum.pm:
[src/glue/enum.pm] return the right things

enum Foo <a b c>;
Previously, requesting Foo yielded an EnumMap, whereas it now yields an object of some kind whose .enums method returns an EnumMap. Similarly, requesting b yielded an Int, whereas now it returns an object that responds to a number of methods, as per S12.		 21:57
lichtkind thowe: great but you know perl 6 compilers are still slow
flussence there's MiniDBD::Pg in Star 21:58
thowe this doesn't need a lot of speed, and it will be around for a while.
lichtkind thowe: look for proto the current central ctation for perl 6 modules
thowe proto?
OK..
here?? modules.perl6.org/ 21:59
lichtkind modules.perl6.org/
thowe :)
lichtkind yes
thowe Cool. THis should be something simple for me to get some real practice in with... 22:00
I may have to port my ip class library, but bit shifting can't be that different than most languages, right?
lichtkind you mean take a value out of an array? 22:01
the p6 shift is not that different to the p5 shift
only now also usable as method 22:02
thowe er no, I mean bitwise operators
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lichtkind ah 22:02
its +< and +>
not << and >> anymore
because its numeric context 22:03
and + dtands for that context
the rest is es expected
thowe Oh. Where are docs for those?
lichtkind we have synopses
and the taplets i write
all linked from perl6.org
syn are the specs 22:04
thowe I should probably look through that PDF book some more...
lichtkind yes its really a book
if you just want to look up ops and method names tablets are propably
better
but there is not much text
if you really want to learn why book would be better now 22:05
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thowe For some reason, even though it's different than my past experience, I really see Parrot and Perl6 being part of my future projects... I've waited months for the feeling to wear off and it hasn't yet. 22:06
lichtkind :) 22:07
flussence The bit operators are in perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#Multipli...precedence if you want a quick overview
lichtkind someone who listens to intuiition :)
thowe It's actually a little weird. My thoughts keep coming back to it like an old girlfriend you never got to say goodbye to... Even thought I don't know this one very well.
lichtkind :) 22:08
thowe OK, now I'm talking weird, but it sticks with me, so I will run with it.
lichtkind yor defineivly weird enough, welcome on board :)
thowe plus you guys are so nice...
flussence rakudo: my $a = 5; $a +<= 2; say $a; # wondering how many of these ops can be stuck together
p6eval rakudo f5e67e: OUTPUT«20␤»
flussence yay
rakudo: my $a = <2 3 4>; $a>>.+<= 2; say $a; 22:09
p6eval rakudo f5e67e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "$a>>.+<= 2"␤»
flussence didn't expect that one to work really
rakudo: my $a = <2 3 4>; $a>>+<=>> 2; say $a; 22:10
p6eval rakudo f5e67e: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in <anon> at line 204:CORE.setting␤ in 'hyper' at line 1␤ in 'hyper' at line 211:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
flussence hmm
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flussence Oh, right 22:11
rakudo: my $a = <2 3 4>; $a<<+<=<< 2; say $a;
p6eval rakudo f5e67e: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in <anon> at line 204:CORE.setting␤ in 'hyper' at line 1␤ in 'hyper' at line 211:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
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flussence rakudo: my @a = <2 3 4>; say ~(@a >>+<>> 2); # blech 22:14
p6eval rakudo f5e67e: OUTPUT«8 12 16␤»
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flussence rakudo: my @array = (3,8,2,9,3,8); @array >>+=>> 42; say ~@array; 22:17
p6eval rakudo f5e67e: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in <anon> at line 204:CORE.setting␤ in 'hyper' at line 1␤ in 'hyper' at line 211:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
flussence that's straight from S03...
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dalek odel: 06ef074 | mberends++ | java/runtime/ (3 files):
[java] add Metamodel/Representations/P6list
 22:50
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jnthn had a lovely evening in Oslo with Unix/Perl folks. :-) 23:45
mberends nice :) 23:48
pmichaud I'm about to do the same, but in Allen, TX. 23:49
bbl
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jnthn pmichaud: enjoy 23:52
jnthn got Mousaka, beer and apple-y liquuer stuff tonight too :-) 23:53
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hercynium so, we're beginning our demo of Rakudo * here @ Boston.pm! 23:57
thowe has to go home
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jnthn hercynium: :-) 23:58
hercynium: Hav fun
jnthn gets some sleep - didn't get much last night :-)
o/
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hercynium oh, BTW, does anybody know of any openGL code I can show off? 23:59
I thouhgt there was something on masak's journal but I can't find it right now

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