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Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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Moukeddar hello 00:16
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lue hello! o/ 00:23
Moukeddar how are you doing ? 00:24
spetrea I cooked some noodles, but they didn't really turn out how I wanted them 00:26
lue just fine.
spetrea I threw 2 eggs at those noodles while they were boilin
Moukeddar spetrea, try spaghetti :)
spetrea Moukeddar: I'm better with spaghetti 00:27
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lue rakudo: say 3/2*(1+2) 00:27
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«4.5␤»
Moukeddar good :)
lue ... ō.o That's wrong. 00:28
spetrea bit.ly/jY4jDw <-- them noodles
Moukeddar haha
operators priority :)
lue rakudo: say 6/2*(1+2) # nvm, got the equation wrong :|
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«9␤»
Moukeddar Russia :)
lue [previous statements redacted] 00:29
Moukeddar in soviet russia , Noodles cook you
spetrea Moukeddar: lol, I'm from .ro but the noodles are from the wrong country
they should be from .cn or .jp
but :(
Moukeddar haha
spetrea gotta see next time I'm in a market.. maybe I can find some good ones
Moukeddar i tried them once
didn't like them much 00:30
i prefer spaghetti with good sauce
spetrea I can make bolognese
I don't like carbonara, that's not for me
Moukeddar what's that?
spetrea which ?
Moukeddar bolognese/carbonara 00:31
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spetrea just pasta 00:32
Moukeddar ko :) 00:33
not very good with names :)
spetrea actually bolognese is the sauce
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolognese_sauce
:) 00:34
wait, was I suppose to dry those ? 00:35
can't remember, didn't actually read any recipe for them, thought it was too easy :)
Moukeddar ah i that's what i make too, except with less meat :p 00:36
i didn't read ane recipe either
i just mix things together and taste
till i get it right :p
it's a TDD :) 00:37
spetrea :))
TDD spaghetti
Moukeddar haha , ya
spetrea cooking is pretty much like programming and viceversa anyway :)
Moukeddar i'm a Born-To-Cook/Eat :) 00:38
spetrea isn't everyone 00:42
Moukeddar no
i'm Special
spetrea :)
Moukeddar my MOM always tell me that :p
and i believe her
diakopter goes to re-up funds in p6eval's vps account
Moukeddar vps? 00:43
diakopter virtual private server
Moukeddar i know
but p6eval takes a whole vps?
diakopter sure, why not 00:44
Moukeddar wow
isn't it expensive? 00:47
Tene Moukeddar: know anyone who rents half of a vps?
Moukeddar lol 00:48
good one
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Moukeddar where's masak? 00:57
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sorear good * #perl6 02:13
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sorear TimToady: ping 02:29
[Coke] . 02:31
sorear o/
phenny: tell TimToady my $str = 'abcde'; my $view1 := substr($str,0,1); my $view2 := substr($str,4,1); $view1 = 'xyz'; $view2 = 'tuv'; say $str; # Result? 02:32
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
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mjreed2 Sanity check: neither the old <m,n> nor new ** m..n range quantifiers work in current Rakudo, right? 03:50
PerlJam mjreed2: incorrect. 03:54
mjreed2 hm. I got an error about HyperWhatever. Must have been a syntax error somewhere. Thanks. 03:59
PerlJam mjreed2: show the code. Sounds like you used << or >> somewhere. 04:00
mjreed2 no longer have the code; rewrote it to avoid **. :) no worries, I see it works now, will fix.
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dalek ecza: 1f5854c | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
Fix error reporting error with if(1)
 06:10
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dalek ecza: 79a8315 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
Implement lvalue substr
 06:59
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mathw \o 07:39
moritz good morning 07:49
if mjreed2 got an error message about HyperWhatever NYI, it meant that he used it outside a regex
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mathw spent some time yesterday telling students that they need to learn stuff 07:54
nymacro how enlightening 07:59
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mathw One of the lecturers thought what I said was interesting 08:08
he accosted me afterwards and wanted to talk about how he can make the module he's teaching more relevant to the real world 08:09
jnthn morning o/
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mathw lo jnthn 08:10
frettled first read that as "lol jnthn". 08:11
mathw I also now realise what I should have done as my PhD project, that I might actually have finished, and might even have been useful
frettled Good morning :)
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tadzik g'morning :) 08:16
moritz: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=79130 seems closable 08:17
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moritz tadzik: RT #79130 closed 08:48
tadzik moritz++ 08:49
moritz tadzik++
phenny: ask mberends if likes/fancies asparagus 08:51
phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when mberends is around.
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dalek kudo/nom: 538aabd | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
[build] fix a build failure on linux

the shell does not look in the current directory unless told to do so I hope this does not break the windows build at the same time		 09:02
jnthn me too :P 09:04
Provided that / becomes a \ (think it does) then should be ok :)
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mathw argh, builds 09:16
argh
mathw has been having trouble with Java building things today
jnthn Yeah, I hate it when Java builds things
mathw although it's not actually anything to do with Java as it turns out, it's extremely poor use of various Java-related build tools which have together created a mass capable of generating enough frustration to power central London for nearly four seconds 09:17
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arnsholt And editing XML files is enough to drive any normal man to cthulhu worship 09:21
mathw there's XML involved, as it uses ant scripts 09:22
a bizarrely large number of them
the overall impression is of something massively overengineered, but without any kind of coherent vision
oh and it doesn't work either
arnsholt An excellent excuse to blow it all away and do something that works, then =) 09:26
Maybe replace ant with make =) 09:27
mathw that's the plan... I'm going to try to persuade my boss to give me some time for it
and give him a plan for a relatively minimal alteration that will make life a lot easier
especially when I document it properly
arnsholt Making boss's life easier sounds like a good way to get it authorised =)
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mathw well I'd swear a lot less... 09:41
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Shozan i hear maven is "teh shit" 09:46
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mathw Maven seems fine if you buy into how Maven does things 09:57
but that's really a very Java-ish thing generally
unfortunately I do not buy into the Java-ish way 09:58
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jnthn o/ lola_91 :) 11:21
Moukeddar the russian Dame 11:22
jnthn :D
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lola_91 Prevet! B-) 11:23
Moukeddar what?
lola_91 Moukeddar: that was to jnthn
jnthn lola_91: Prevet! Kak dela? :)
tadzik Dobry dień
Moukeddar ok :p
vous parlez quoi ici ?
lola_91 Moukeddar: it means hello 11:24
jnthn lola_91: Ja budu v Rossije v nedelyu...yesli u minya budet visu! 11:25
gah, I should be less lazy and type cyrillic :)
Moukeddar so , this is the mutated russian ?
jnthn Given I'm speaking it, it's probably very mutated. :P
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lola_91 jnthn: u do it greatly.. almost like I text chat russian with english letters :) 11:31
jnthn: so the papers not ready yet? 11:32
:S
jnthn lola_91: Not yet. I submitted everything so...just waiting...
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lola_91 jnthn: mmm... i hope it will not take long.. maybe if you tell them why are you going there they will help you ^_^ 11:33
jnthn: tell them: I am jnthn.. the perl6 hacker B-) 11:34
jnthn I'm pretty sure telling the Russian consulate I'm a hacker will not help my application. :)
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tadzik I remember going to the battle of Frydland in Kaliningrad region, we (me and the husband of my sister, what's the word again?) accidentally bought our visas for the week after the battle 11:34
so in the actual day we rush to the embassy asking for guidance 11:35
turns out they can't give us our visas for today, but there's this tourist agency on the other side of the street, and they're able to get us visas in a few hours time
jnthn Heh 11:36
They had a "special relationship" with the embassy, huh? :)
Moukeddar special?
tadzik probably 11:37
you know, a relationship they can really... value
lola_91 I hate using "special relations"
and never accepted using them 11:38
and never will..
Moukeddar i love using 'them'
jnthn lola_91: It's a crappy way to get things done, yes.
tadzik well, I don't know how did they do it under the hood, we can only suspect
lola_91 jnthn: exactly..
jnthn: in past you could also buy a password with money or relations.. 11:39
ope
passport
jnthn O_O
lola_91 getting confused with work :P
jnthn I'm sure you can buy passwords with the wrong kinds of relations too... :P
tadzik heh, we had a similar things in Poland few dozens of years before 11:40
Moukeddar hehe
we live in a corrupted world
tadzik buy a whiskey, pretend that you're a policeman, get a passport in a few days
lola_91 tadzik: loooool :D
lola_91: not in Russia
maybe in Ukraine..
Moukeddar is policeman something special ? 11:41
no
jnthn Moukeddar: That'll only change if people decide they really don't want it, rather than just saying "oh, it's a fact of life"
tadzik jnthn: ticket controllers in Poland usually wear those "I don't give, I don't take" badges 11:42
I've seen those as a stickers in a few...
phenny: "urząd"?
lola_91 tadzik: but do they? O_o
phenny tadzik: "office" (pl to en, translate.google.com) 11:43
tadzik pff. Yeah, offices too
lola_91: I haven't heard of the case for the last few years
before it was quite common to hear from a friend that he gave 50 PLN to a ticket controller not to get a 150 PLN penalty
lola_91 I wish I could be a queen of one of the countries.. I would turn it into the perfect world B-) 11:44
tadzik (:
gah, I broke my green tea :(
lola_91 tadzik: huh!
jnthn tadzik: How do you...break tea?
tadzik jnthn: you prepare it for 11 minutes instead of 3 11:45
jnthn Oops.
tadzik happens to me all the time
jnthn Yeah, same
It's like "oh, I'll make tea"
lola_91 tadzik: what a disaster :(
tadzik I must get to know with this KTeaTime wonder
jnthn pour water, hack hack hack...crap my tea's cold!
tadzik oh, that's a different story :)
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jnthn imagines lola_91 sat on a throne wearning an epic crown 11:46
tadzik finds it hard without knowing how lola_91 looks 11:47
jnthn :) 11:48
lola_91 tadzik: mmmm... do you people want to see me? :p 11:49
bbkr_ hi. can I create META.info that has ICU lib in depends? 11:50
if not - how can I check in runtime if ICU is loaded?
tadzik bbkr_: I don't think that is supported. You can a) create a Configure.pl that will check that before building and complain, b) file a ticket for perl6/ecosystem for META.info to support things like that 11:51
preferably both
although I think I forgot to implement Configure.pl in panda, and I don't think I want to
lola_91: I like knowing who do I talk to :)
bbkr_ :)
tadzik but I don't mind if you don't, I know the faces of like 5-6 people on this channel probably, and seen 2 IRL :) 11:52
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tadzik bbkr_: I think that META.info should support C-like-lib dependencies along with the perl6-module ones 11:52
jnthn tadzik: 3 at least :) 11:53
tadzik one, two, three, oh, right!
lola_91 tadzik: ok will show you later.. You will know the real me B-)
tadzik :)
Moukeddar the real her
tadzik jnthn: I probably started counting from zero :)
jnthn :D
tadzik on my university there's a story about a professor who wanted 4 chairs, and then called and complained that he only got 3 "I'm counting, zero, one, two, three" 11:54
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takadonet morning all 12:00
tadzik morning
jnthn o/ takadonet
tadzik whew, I almost thought this is this awkward silence moment :)
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jnthn is quiet 'cus he's nomming :) 12:04
Moukeddar bon apetit 12:09
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jnthn Moukeddar: merci :) 12:11
Moukeddar vous nommez quoi exactement ?
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jnthn Je nom en sandwich de framage... ;) 12:13
er, s/en/un/ 12:14
Moukeddar Typical
so that's why you're cheezy
;)
jnthn :P
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Jdoneright Hello! 12:26
I came here with some ideas.
Let's make Perl benefit from ideas of J programming language. 12:27
Perl even can be "J done right"
Moukeddar J ? 12:28
Jdoneright I for myself define Perl essence as "programming a smart robot"
yes, J 12:29
Moukeddar never heard of that
Jdoneright Smart robot is very smart, so he can do lots under very concise instructions
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Jdoneright J programming language seems to take same direction, only to further extreme. 12:30
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Jdoneright Perl already looks like J when you do "map sort grep" thing. 12:31
When you MAP instead of cycle. 12:32
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Jdoneright Well, J does not have cycles. 12:33
mathw en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_%28programm...anguage%29 <- this one? 12:34
Jdoneright Serious drawback with J is, you can't learn it fast. Its keywords are calculator-like -- one or two punctuation symbols. 12:35
Yes.
flussence rakudo: sub avg { [+] @_ / +@_ }; say avg(1, 2, 3, 4) 12:36
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«1␤»
flussence bah.
rakudo: sub avg { ([+] @_) / +@_ }; say avg(1, 2, 3, 4)
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«2.5␤» 12:37
mathw Jdoneright: So, what specifically could Perl 6 learn from J?
Jdoneright The idea behind J is, lets think of a program as chain of operations which makes output list from input list, and then lets code this chain from standard operations. Much like map-sort-map paradigm.
mathw so, the feed operators then 12:38
we can do that
jnthn rakudo: (-1,2,5) ==> map * + 2 ==> grep * > 1 ==> say
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«47␤»
mathw which is really just functional programming with a different coat on
Jdoneright mathw, for start I think of rich set of primitives in J.
flussence rakudo: say for 1, 2, *+* ... * >= 100 12:39
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤»
Jdoneright so called "J vocabulary"
mathw hmm
flussence jeez, I'm half asleep today :/
rakudo: .say for 1, 2, *+* ... * >= 100
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤5␤8␤13␤21␤34␤55␤89␤144␤»
mathw that's more like it :)
Jdoneright J uses grammar-related terms: "noun", "verb", "adverb" 12:40
mathw so what does its standard library have that Perl 6's setting doesn't and should have?
Jdoneright That should be answered after doing needed research work. 12:41
Concept of adverbs is another example. Those ase operations which modify operations. 12:42
mathw Are they able to do this without the operation explicitly supporting particular adverbs? 12:44
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Jdoneright Well, as I see it, J benefits greatly from its unified approach to data. All data there is array(list) of some dimensions. 12:44
mathw or are they just parameters to that operation
bbkr_ star: use MIME::Base64; MIME::Base64.encode_base64('zażółć gęślą jaźń'); # ooops :) any idea for workaround? 12:46
Jdoneright mathw, they look like parameters, but they are universal and very orthgonal. For example, adverb "/" means "insert that op between items of list"
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«FixedIntegerArray: index out of bounds!␤ in 'MIME::Base64::encode_base64' at line 7:/home/p6eval/rakudo-star-2011.04/install/lib/parrot/3.3.0/languages/perl6/lib/MIME/Base64.pm6␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/lHKTuCcZ6w␤»
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mathw Jdoneright: oh, so they modify the way the operator is applied, rather than what it does 12:48
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Jdoneright Example: J program "+/ 1 2 3 4 5" computes sum of 1-5 numbers. 12:48
tadzik bbkr_: haha, that's funny :)
rakudo: say [+] 1..5
mathw rakudo: say [+] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«15␤»
mathw the [] metaoperator does that
tadzik bbkr_: MIME::Base64 is heavily Parrot-y, so what you experience may be a parrotbug of some sort 12:49
Jdoneright Exatly! Perl 6 meta-ops are very like them. 12:50
flussence bbkr_: try encoding it to a utf-8 buf first. 12:51
tadzik star: use MIME::Base64; MIME::Base64.encode_base64('no unicode') 12:53
p6eval star 2011.04: ( no output )
bbkr_ tadzik: I'm analyzing this module right now. And to be honest I don't think it's parrot bug. Base 64 RFC does not specify how to handle unicode, so it's natural for method to expect something like Buf, not multibyte characters.
tadzik hmm
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Jdoneright When I read about J, my thoughts were: "this is what they are adding to Perl in v6" 12:56
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bbkr_ flussence: how do I do that conversion Str->Buf? S32 is not helpful here. 12:56
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Jdoneright Authors of J call its specific "vector programming" as opposed to "scalar programming" like C 12:57
tadzik bbkr_: no, it is a Parrotbug 12:58
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tadzik bbkr_: nopaste.snit.ch/43593 12:59
Parrot's MIME::Base64 seems to expect asciistrings
flussence bbkr_: Str.encode() should do it, iirc. 13:00
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bbkr_ star:use MIME::Base64; MIME::Base64.encode_base64( 'zażółć gęślą jaźń'.encode ); 13:02
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$str'; expected Str but got Buf instead␤ in 'MIME::Base64::encode_base64' at line 1:/home/p6eval/rakudo-star-2011.04/install/lib/parrot/3.3.0/languages/perl6/lib/MIME/Base64.pm6␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/LVNVxbtq8n␤»
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bbkr_ how can I iterate over Buf items? "ż".encode.perl gives Buf.new(197, 188), and index access "ż".encode.[0] works as expected. but map{.WHAT.say},"ż".encode does not provide series of Int but whole Buf() . 13:27
tadzik: I've re-read RFC and i'm sure it's not parrot bug. base64 should expect only ascii characters. unicode should be repacked into separate characters, something like [~]'zażółć'.encode>>.chr 13:29
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dakkar bbkr_: base64 expects *bytes*, not characters 13:32
if you are encoding, clearly
base64_encode: Buf → Str
base64_decode: Str → Buf 13:33
rakudo: Buf(1,2,3).bytes
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &Buf␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/TcaohsfNQl␤»
dakkar rakudo: Buf.new(1,2,3).bytes 13:34
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«Method 'bytes' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Lj4bW9B3AQ␤»
dakkar hmm
dakkar checks the spec
tadzik a-ha
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PerlJam rakudo: my @a = 1..5; say @a Z @a[1..*] 14:07
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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bbkr_ rakudo: pack("H*", Buf.new()) # is it bug that pack( ) accepts not Iterable item as second param? 14:30
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«Cannot take numeric value for object of type Buf␤ in 'Any::Numeric' at line 1482:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<%>' at line 7637:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 4769:CORE.setting␤ in 'pack' at line 1␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/DwJpFAbAYY␤»
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bbkr_ star: use MIME::Base64; MIME::Base64.encode_base64("żółty".encode.unpack("A*")).say; # \o/ 14:47
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«xbzDs8WCdHk=␤»
tadzik LTA, I must say :) 14:48
bbkr_ I still claim that it is MIME::Base64 bug. encode_base64 in parrot follows RFC spec and expects string composed of ASCII characters. It's Perl6 that must mangle unicode to be DWIM-y :) 14:50
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bbkr_ tadzik: P5 base64 behaves the same way - you have to encode manually. which is awful to debug. 14:51
sorear observation: in Perl 5, substr($long, $big, 1) = $char is O(1)
bbkr_ is back to Email::MIME hacking 14:52
tadzik bbkr_: I see
flussence does p6 have a concept of "default encoding" that Str.encode could use to simplify the base64 thing?
moritz sorear: even for strings with UTF8 flag?
sorear wonders if the same can/should be true in Perl 6
moritz: no
moritz flussence: it has, otherwise you'd have to write Str.encode("UTF-8")
the questions is really if MIME::Base64 should do it automatically for you 14:53
flussence I'm of the opinion it should, and anyone wanting a different encoding should call .encode themselves... 14:54
bbkr_ moritz: IMO it should. every library in other languages and every converter does it automatically. I simply do not care about internals when I want to encode 'żółty'
moritz bbkr_: you do not want to care, but you should, because there's not one standard way 14:55
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moritz base64 really is a format for encoding octets in ascii 14:55
sorear moritz: does it always default to UTF-8, or to nl_langinfo(CHARSET)? 14:56
moritz not for encoding text in ascii
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moritz sorear: dunno 14:56
Juerd bbkr_: Base64 encoding encodes a string of *bytes* (not necessarily ASCII) to a string of ASCII characters. 15:01
bbkr_: There's no Unicode involved *at all*. If you have Unicode somewhere, you must first encode it. This could be done transparently but it still needs to be done. 15:02
bbkr_ agrees now
Juerd In Perl 5, encode_base64 should try to downgrade its argument. If that fails, it should at the very least emit a warning. 15:03
I don't know if it's actually implemented like that.
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bbkr_ Juerd: In this case it would be nice to overload MIME::Base64.encode_base64 ( Buf ) , so users can simply write encode_base64('żółć'.encode). It took me a while to figure out this repacking magic :) 15:12
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tadzik bbkr_: that's your call, patches welcome :) 15:18
star: use MIME::Base64; MEME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk= 15:19
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
tadzik star: use MIME::Base64; MEME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk=').decode.say
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«Cannot find sub MEME::Base64␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
tadzik gets me every time...
star: use MIME::Base64; MIME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk=').decode.say
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«Method 'decode' not found for invocant of class 'String'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/698Gc39wYa␤»
Juerd bbkr_: Personally I'd love a somewhat more extensive encoding/decoding framework instead of a ton of modules with different syntaxes everywhere.
I usually need a few layers of encoding
Not uncommon: unicode -> html encoding -> utf-8 -> base64 -> gzip 15:20
In a dwimmy world you could do just $string.encode(<html utf8 base64 gzip>) 15:21
tadzik star: use MIME::Base64; MIME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk=').say
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«Å¼Ã³Åty␤»
tadzik star: use MIME::Base64; MIME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk=').&decode.say
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &decode␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/dlBmS8WSUW␤»
bbkr_ tadzik: try this 15:22
star: use MIME::Base64; MIME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk=').encode('UTF-8').decode.say 15:23
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«żółty␤»
moritz star: use MIME::Base64; $*OUT.write: MIME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk=').encode('UTF-8') 15:24
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«Å¼Ã³Åty»
moritz star: use MIME::Base64; $*OUT.write: MIME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk=') 15:25
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«No candidates found to invoke for method 'write' on object of type 'IO'; available candidates have signatures:␤:(Mu : Buf $buf;; *%_)␤␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/D26dNl8TAK␤»
moritz why doesn't it work with .encode?
bbkr_ because decode_base64 returns string of bytes and you need decode to pack it back into chars, and decode is available on Buf type only so you need double Buf repacking? 15:27
moritz
.oO( ??? )
 15:28
tadzik rakudo: say so Any
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
moritz star: use MIME::Base64; say MIME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk=').WHAT 15:29
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
bbkr_ star: use MIME::Base64; $*OUT.write: MIME::Base64.decode_base64('xbzDs8WCdHk=').encode('UTF-8').decode.encode
moritz so, it returns a Str
p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«Å¼Ã³Åty»
moritz (which IMHO is a bug)
rakudo: $*OUT.write: 'möp'.encode
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«möp»
moritz ok, why does this not work?
rakudo: say 'möp'.encode.perl 15:30
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«Buf.new(109, 195, 182, 112)␤»
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tadzik .u thumb 15:31
phenny tadzik: Sorry, no results for 'thumb'.
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moritz rakudo: say Buf.^methods.grep(*.name eq 'write').signature.perl 15:32
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«Method 'grep' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/v5PmAxck1t␤»
jnthn meh.
moritz rakudo: say infix:<,>(Buf.^methods).grep(*.name eq 'write').signature.perl
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«Method 'signature' not found for invocant of class 'List'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/2V0d4z2CdY␤»
jnthn
.oO( meh-taobject )
moritz rakudo: say infix:<,>(Buf.^methods).grep(*.name eq 'write').[0].signature.perl 15:33
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«Method 'signature' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/O868UyNd13␤»
tadzik this is my favourite class, this ''
moritz rakudo: say infix:<,>(Buf.^methods).grep(*.name eq 'write').[0].PARROT 15:34
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«␤»
jnthn rakudo: say infix:<,>(Buf.^methods).grep(*.name eq 'write').[0].WHAT
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
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bbkr_ Buf write method is in src/core/IO.pm line 99 :) 15:40
moritz right 15:41
not in Buf.
rakudo: say infix:<,>($*OUT.^methods).grep(*.name eq 'write').[0].signature.perl
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Perl6MultiSub'␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
jnthn
.oO( one more error we won't get with protos... )
 15:42
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tadzik "fixed in nom!" 15:43
jnthn :P 15:44
Didn't get to that bit of nom yet. ;)
Fixed in nqp though...apart from it doesn't have introspectable signatures. :)
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jnthn nqp: proto foo($x?) { say("before"); {*}; say("after"); }; multi foo() { say(1) }; multi foo($x) { say(2) }; foo(); foo("donkey"); 15:45
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«before␤1␤after␤before␤2␤after␤»
tadzik oh, so that's how those proto's work... 15:46
int eresting; 15:47
jnthn str essful; # to implement
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tadzik $x? -- that could be a worthwhile fix for the comb() situation 15:49
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bbkr_ s = bb.'get_string_as'(binary:"") - hmm, if bb is ByteBuffer and get_string_as returns bb converted to binary string then "$*OUT.write: 'möp'.encode" is not expected to write unicode string, isn't it? 15:52
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tadzik moritz: around? 16:02
melange wants me to "Set 'additional info' for 'Pod parser for Rakudo'", do you know what might that be? 16:03
moritz tadzik: kinda
no, I'll ask the boss
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pmurias hi 17:40
takadonet pmurias: hi 17:41
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masak y0, zebrz. 18:02
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masak isn't it odd that the day after I post a J link on the channel, a person called 'Jdoneright' pops in and wants Perl to benefit from ideas in J? :) 18:04
jnthn o/ masak 18:05
masak probably just the usual froth of relatively unlikely events that are bound to happen with some frequency.... :)
moritz maybe somebody looked at referrers
masak could be. scary, backlinks on the web... ;)
jnthn: \o
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Moukeddar Hello 18:17
masak Moukeddar! \o/ 18:19
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Moukeddar hello masak 18:20
my Hero
masak oh, knock it off. :P you know I can't handle flattery :)
Moukeddar that CQRS is very Enterprisy :)
i feel Corporatish
masak Moukeddar: if you ask for me and it's 2 am here, I might not reply immediately. :)
Moukeddar oh
where's that? 18:21
Sweden?
masak yeah.
Moukeddar: well, the "enterprisey" setting is a very common one.
Moukeddar masak, today i asked a teacher about the CQRS and the DDD
he said
what's that
lol
masak that doesn't surprise me.
it's not common knowledge. 18:22
Moukeddar he's an engineer :)
masak right. the good news hasn't reached everyone yet. 18:23
either that, or it's just a fad, and we're all high on the bubble. :)
Moukeddar who knows
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masak (nah!) :P 18:24
spetrea maybe hit the like button some more here --> www.facebook.com/pages/Perl6/132425770129377 ?
Moukeddar but it's fun to learn that :)
spetrea, it's official ?
spetrea well it's teh wikipedia page so .. I guess it's official
I searched rakudo on facebook but found nothin
masak it's the official wikipedia page.
spetrea make a facebook thingie :)
Moukeddar i like that i can like stuff i like 18:25
Su-Shee there is a perl6 facebook thingie I think.
Eevee my life was not complete until I could push a button to announce to my friends that I like things
how would they know otherwise?!
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Moukeddar haha 18:25
it's called speech
but if you do it in some other way 18:26
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Su-Shee and that was called blank sarcasm ;) 18:26
Moukeddar you'll be the "Attention Wh*re"
Eevee conversations are for old people
Moukeddar is it ?
i still like to talk
less painful than typing
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masak Moukeddar: did I mention that jnthn and I started writing a CQRS app? 18:36
Moukeddar sweeeeet
masak it's a game server. it's written in Perl 5/Moose.
Moukeddar how's it going ?
masak well, there's a blog post describing exactly that :) 18:37
Moukeddar GIMME
masak blog.edument.se/2011/05/04/trying-o...for-a-day/
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Moukeddar "He likes to work on healing systems" 18:41
masak aye. 18:42
Moukeddar that's you in the Pic ? 18:43
masak allegedly.
Moukeddar one thing i can think of 18:44
masak did you read the post itself? :)
Moukeddar Fight Club
i'm reading
why you didn't use a gamestart command?
masak a good question. 18:45
Moukeddar tha game automaticly starts when the two players join right ?
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masak no, a game automatically starts when an Invitation is accepted. 18:45
18:45 lue joined
masak though you could see that as "two players joining", if you like. 18:45
but it's more of a mutual agreement. 18:46
Moukeddar ok , i see
Domain expert talking :)
masak yeah, I've seen about four such game servers at very close range. I know what I want from them. :)
jnthn Sadly, his architect was utterly incompetent. :) 18:47
masak don't listen to jnthn!
jnthn :P
masak the client tells me he was very impressed with the architect... :)
Moukeddar the clients are sometimes confused and don't know what they want 18:48
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Moukeddar you said it yourself 18:48
pair-programming must be fun 18:51
Su-Shee it's insanely fast. 18:52
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Moukeddar better than talking to a plushie 18:52
right? 18:53
Su-Shee no it's not the same as bouncing off ideas, it's less errors, more merge of knowledge, more social control over cleansiness of code.. 18:54
Moukeddar indeed
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Moukeddar there's a lot to learn 18:56
hope the summer will be enough
TimToady is not entirely sure that backlogging while jetlagging is a good idea... 19:01
phenny TimToady: 02:32Z <sorear> tell TimToady my $str = 'abcde'; my $view1 := substr($str,0,1); my $view2 := substr($str,4,1); $view1 = 'xyz'; $view2 = 'tuv'; say $str; # Result?
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jnthn TimToady: What could possible go wrong? :) 19:01
TimToady anyhoo, we're in .br now 19:02
jnthn Nice! :) 19:04
All being well I'll be in .ru in a week or so... :) 19:05
jnthn never made it to .br yet. Should do that some day.
19:05 miso2217 left
sbp first one to collect all the country level domains gets a clause of their choice inserted into the next version of the Artistic License 19:06
TimToady should get to .pl and .pm someday 19:07
sbp hehe
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tadzik .pl is fun 19:17
jnthn Indeed. :)
Moukeddar is it ? 19:18
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tadzik yep 19:26
jnthn remembers it being fun :) 19:27
jnthn remembers the wodka too :)
Moukeddar hehe , in a forum , a guy asks for a complete project
as his final
moritz happens every day :( 19:29
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jnthn It's the student version of trolling freelancer sites by posting projects that boil down to the halting problem. 19:30
Moukeddar so sad
i mean it's not that hard
moritz the halting problem?
jnthn moritz: There are some people on freelancing sites who will bid for ANYTHING. 19:31
Moukeddar they should be burned alive with NAPALM for digracing the programming Race :p
jnthn moritz: "I want a program that works out if other programs terminate." "Oh yes, we can make that for you!"
moritz jnthn: I know, I've seen some of those examples
jnthn: some even claim "I've solved the same problem for a previous project" 19:32
jnthn :D
Moukeddar even if i did freelance , i can't recieve paiments
jnthn Good way to weed out the people *not* to get to work on your project. :)
Moukeddar :(
PerlJam jnthn: indeed
HR here has a questionaire thingy where you can build a set of questions to ask candidates then rank them based on their answers. One of the options is "immediately disqualify if they answer X" I really liked that one. 19:34
Moukeddar am i in danger ?
PerlJam Moukeddar: you are always in danger.
TimToady only if you answer X
Moukeddar what if i answer "i don't know "
moritz that's often better than no answer at all 19:36
erm 19:37
I mean better than the totally wrong answer
or better than talking for minutes without answering the question
Moukeddar i need to shut up more often
PerlJam It's easy to weed out liars like that "How many years experience do you have with Perl 6?" a) 1-5 b) 6-10 c) 11-15 d) > 15 19:38
Moukeddar hehe
since when perl6 is around
moritz depends on what you mean by "around" :-)
PerlJam anyone who answers c had better be named "Larry" :) 19:39
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Moukeddar perl6 is pretty young :) 19:39
sbp hmm, I first mentioned perl6 on 2004-02-09 that I can find
moritz thinks he might be nearing his 5th year of Perl 6
sbp from the same logs, a friend mentioned it on 2002-06-14
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TimToady well, I can answer c if I can round to the nearest year... 19:43
or d if you allow working on the prototype for Perl 6 :P 19:46
PerlJam d is trickier to explain even if your name is Larry :) 19:47
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Moukeddar what if you have no name? 19:48
moritz then you should get one 19:50
or give yourself one
Moukeddar for now on i'll be Sefnaj
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masak arrives home 20:00
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moritz masak: welcome back 20:03
masak grazie.
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masak [backlog] halting problem argument considered overused. 20:04
tadzik jnthn, jnthn! Is blizkost dirived from "bliskość"? It just came to my head today
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Moukeddar hi masak 20:04
masak hi.
some very fine, attackable problems boil down to the halting problem. and it's still very much worth it writing (partial) solutions to them.
Moukeddar like freelance projects ;) 20:05
i love trying to solve them
masak by the way, I saw an excellent analogy the other day.
miso2217 tadzik: it is from the slovak "blizkost" what is "bliskość" in polish i think
jnthn What miso2217 said, apart from I don't know hardly anything about Polish. But the Slovak bit is true. :) 20:06
miso2217 tadzik: with a few accents missing
masak Euclid proved, somewhat against intuition, that there are an infinity of necessary "basic integers". we call them prime numbers.
PerlJam reframes the halting problem to guarantee haltingness. :-)
masak Gödel similarly proved that there are an infinity of necessary "basic axioms".
I kinda like the symmetry there.
jnthn miso2217: Som lenivy... ;)
Moukeddar maths :p
miso2217 jnthn: Aj ja! :-)
tadzik ść aren't accents, but I get it :) 20:07
miso2217 tadzik: I said accents, as I don't know how it should be called in english, How do you call that in english? 20:08
tadzik miso2217: I don't :) They're just different letters
miso2217 tadzik: should be called some kind of accentuaion I think, no?
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tadzik nope 20:09
for example, you prononcu ś "si", ć, "ci
", something like that
moritz more generally speaking they are marks 20:10
or "combining characters"
miso2217 marks! that's it
tadzik like u umlaut, hm?
moritz right
tadzik oh, the little things in letters
they're "ogonki" :)
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tadzik "little tails" would be in english 20:11
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jnthn cute :) 20:11
miso2217 so there a few marks missing ont the "blizkost" to be the slovak blizkost, but as i have only french keyboard I can't easily write that correctly. I'll pase tit from google :-)
Blízkosť 20:12
jnthn
.oO( Pase tit from Google. That's the breat way. )
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miso2217 jnthn: ok "it", tit could be also cool but I don't know how it would look in ascii art on irc :-) 20:17
jnthn miso2217: Let's not experiment. :) 20:18
miso2217 :)
tadzik oh, I have a few aliases with ascii arts :) 20:19
20:19 justatheory joined
tadzik and I think I already flooded the channel with'em once or twice 20:19
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masak rakudo: my $x = 'o'; $x = ($x, $x, ' ', $x, $x).join for ^4; say $x 20:24
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«oo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo
..oooo oo…
20:24 [Coke] left
masak I... don't really know why I did that... :) 20:24
flussence ooooooooo! 20:25
Moukeddar eeeeeeeeee!
TimToady got bit by a sierpinski?
20:25 miso2217 joined
masak I guess I had something Sierpinskish in mind. 20:26
PerlJam he would have needed to use " " for more sierpinksiness
tadzik :D
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masak rakudo: my $x = 'o'; $x = ($x, $x, ' ', $x, $x).join for ^3; say $x 20:26
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«oo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oo oo oooo oooo oooo oo oo oooo oo␤»
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masak rakudo: say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(5).join(' ') ~ '!' 20:28
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«ba ba ba ba da!␤»
masak a slightly elongated Beethoven's fifth :P
PerlJam "Archeologists today uncovered an ancient magnetic disk that seems to contain only two characters. Based on the encodings of the day, those two characters are space and the letter O. It is unclear why those are the only two characters, but they do make an interesting pattern"
masak PerlJam: :D
tadzik rakudo: say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(5).join(' ') ~ '!' 20:30
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«ba ba ba ba da!␤»
tadzik BOARing!
rakudo: say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(5).join(' ') ~ '!'
masak huh!? the *same*?
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«ba ba ba ba da!␤»
tadzik rakudo: say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(5).join(' ') ~ '!'
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«ba ba ba ba da!␤»
masak something's wrong.
20:30 anazawa joined
PerlJam seriously so 20:30
tadzik either roll's broken, or we're VERY lucky :)
masak submits rakudobug 20:31
tadzik rakudo: say 1
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«1␤»
tadzik rakudo: say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(5).join(' ') ~ '!'
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«ba ba ba ba da!␤»
masak I can't get that jingle out of my head now. make it stop! :P
PerlJam rakudo: say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(5).join(' ') ~ '!'
tadzik ba-dum tss!
PerlJam rakudo: say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(5).join(' ') ~ '!'
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«ba ba ba ba da!␤» 20:32
PerlJam waits
hrm. :(
jnthn rakudo: say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(10).join(' ') ~ '!'
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«ba ba ba ba da ba ba dup dup dup!␤»
tadzik something brook
jnthn rakudo: say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(50).join(' ') ~ '!'
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«ba ba ba ba da ba ba dup dup dup da doodie doodie dup dup ba dee ba da da doodie dup doodie dup doodie ba doodie dup ba doodie doodie ba doodie dee ba da ba da dee dee dee ba dee ba dee dee ba dup dup da!␤»
tadzik works locally
PerlJam Have their been changes to random numbers recently? 20:33
tadzik well, works. Doesn't look weird
masak jnthn: that will never become a popular hit.
PerlJam or mabye the bot is really really predictable
masak the random number seed doesn't get randomized.
it should.
jnthn rakudo: for 1..5 { say <ba da dup dee doodie>.roll(5).join(' ') ~ '!' } 20:34
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«ba ba ba ba da!␤ba ba dup dup dup!␤da doodie doodie dup dup!␤ba dee ba da da!␤doodie dup doodie dup doodie!␤»
jnthn Looks like.
20:34 Shozan left 20:35 birdwindupbird left, ymasory left
masak 'night, #perl6. 20:35
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moritz rakudo: say rand 20:44
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«3.90798504668055e-14␤» 20:45
moritz rakudo: say rand
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«3.90798504668055e-14␤»
moritz rakudo: say rand
p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«3.90798504668055e-14␤»
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sorear good * #perl6 23:51
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