»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
00:11 wolfman2000 joined
dalek kudo/nom: c2f008d | pmichaud++ | src/core/Array.pm:
Make use of existing scalar instead of repeating getattr.
 00:14
kudo/nom: e2ebf39 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Array.pm:
Add a comment to hotpath checks added in c10792f (RT #111848).
00:16 havenn joined 00:27 jferrero left
sorear good * #perl6 00:32
00:35 localhost left 00:36 localhost joined 00:40 havenn left 00:43 havenn joined
japhb sorear, I forget ... which distro do you use? And if it is Ubuntu or Debian, what are your thoughts on/experience with using badgerports to get a modern mono for an Ubuntu 11.04 system? 00:53
sorear I use debian sid. I have never touched badgerports. 01:02
japhb Ah well.
sorear debian has modern mono now; for a long time I was using a mono built from source
it's a little involved, but much less so than (say) building a kernel 01:03
took around 70 minutes on the dinosaur
japhb Yeah, and it appears from mono-project.com/DistroPackages/Ubuntu that 12.04 LTS will have a modern Mono, but sadly the Ubuntu I'm running (11.04) is from just before the 2.10 transition. 01:05
Since I don't want to wait for the end of April to get a full-speed Niecza ... I'm considering risking the death of F-Spot and using badgerports.
sorear if you want safety, build your own mono 01:06
then it'll go in /usr/local and you can play with $PATH
use --prefix=/opt/mono-2.10 if you're really paranoid, and nuke the whole tree when you're done 01:07
(the latter will require fiddling with more variables; see www.mono-project.com/Parallel_Mono_Environments ) 01:08
google-- # making it difficult to copy links from search results
japhb google-- # Not being DuckDuckGo 01:09
:-)
01:10 jferrero joined 01:12 Chillance left 01:13 scott_ joined 01:14 scott_ is now known as Guest81734 01:33 havenn left 01:39 mucker left 01:43 shinobicl___ joined 01:48 mucker joined
japhb New HPatMoR chapter up ... 02:02
japhb prepares to settle in for a long Mono build while reading. :-) 02:03
sorear "long"?
it always built faster than Rakudo for me. 02:04
TimToady maybe he meant 32 bits :)
japhb sorear, pretty old 32-bit laptop. And for Rakudo, I tend to start a build and then go do something else for a while. I expected much the same. :-) 02:05
02:05 whiteknight left
japhb Oy vey, just cloning the Git repo is taking a while. 02:05
02:07 sisar joined
jnthn evening, #perl6 02:20
colomon o/ 02:21
jnthn Ooh, more pmichaud++ patches 02:23
sorear it's funny that people have to say 32 bits now.
o/ jnthn , colomon , sisar
sisar sorear, hi :) 02:24
02:32 alester joined 02:34 sisar left
jnthn masak++ # release 02:34
02:39 cbk1090 left 02:41 pyrimidine left
colomon ooo, masak++ 02:44
japhb Damn. Chapter finished before compile. :-(
02:46 cogno joined 02:50 ascent_ left 02:57 REPLeffect left 03:01 cogno left 03:02 Guest18067 left 03:05 cogno joined 03:06 benabik joined 03:07 ascent_ joined
japhb Sheesh. At this point, it's pretty clear mono is taking longer to build than Rakudo does. By a fair margin, methinks. 03:07
03:14 REPLeffect joined 03:18 cogno left 03:22 lestrrat left 03:23 jferrero left, lestrrat joined
pmichaud jnthn: ping 03:26
jnthn pmichaud: pong
pmichaud I forgot you were in the western hemisphere :)
not used to that 03:27
03:27 jferrero joined
pmichaud I think we may be to the point where we need a container type that is equivalent to Scalar but also flattens 03:27
jnthn :)
OK 03:28
pmichaud this might also be useful to finally fix the array/hash initialization issue (which somehow got dropped from NOMMAP)
jnthn Can it not be a flag on scalar? Or do you want a type differentiation?
(we already have space for a flag)
pmichaud I'm fine with making it a flag on scalar, but that means you would likely need to set the flag on every scalar that gets created 03:29
and several things become flag checks instead of type checks
jnthn Hm
Well, and sometimes you need the type check to know you can flag check :)
pmichaud it feels to me like it ought to be a base class of scalar
*Scalar 03:30
jnthn Scalar is a perfectly normal object these days, so that should be no problem.
pmichaud and then Scalar is the type that we use for non-flattening things
jnthn What would you call the other one?
Container? :)
pmichaud Container works for me
but since that gets reasonably low-level I figured you'd be the person to come up with the appropriate name 03:31
even just Variable works :)
japhb phenny, ask sorear I've compiled and 'make install'ed the base mono into /opt/mono/ . What other mono-related repos (presumably mostly under github.com/mono ) should I clone/build/install to get Maximum Happiness (tm) from niecza?
phenny japhb: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
sorear pmichaud: Huh?
phenny sorear: 03:31Z <japhb> ask sorear I've compiled and 'make install'ed the base mono into /opt/mono/ . What other mono-related repos (presumably mostly under github.com/mono ) should I clone/build/install to get Maximum Happiness (tm) from niecza?
sorear I hear you trying to change the Perl 6 bottom turtles in the background, I vanna know what's up 03:32
pmichaud I'm trying to get rakudo to match the spec. :-)
Rakudo's bottom turtles don't match the spec's bottom turtles
so, I'm really fixing Rakudo's bottom turtles, not Perl 6's
:-)
sorear is this an S09 thing?
pmichaud not really 03:33
rakudo: my @a; say @a.defined;
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«True␤»
pmichaud I suspect that should be False.
sorear japhb: glib is the only library that niecza will automatically use without asking
03:33 mucker left
sorear pmichaud: I don't understand how that can be False in any reasonable model 03:33
pmichaud sorear: my understanding is that arrays and hashes aren't defined until they have a value assigned to them. this has been discussed before; most recently last summer 03:34
Rakudo has mis-implemented this for quite some time; it's been on the "to do" list for fixing for a while also. 03:35
let me see if I can find the relevant #perl6 discussions
sorear I think this is completely insane. Niecza has implemented the sane version for a while ;) 03:36
I'd be interested in knowing what model you're using, since you seem to not think it is insane.
pmichaud sorear: it's not my choice of model either
I'm not switching Rakudo out of a preference, I'm switching based on previous discussions of the spec 03:37
sorear by "model" I mean "that which I physically cannot begin to implement a spec without first having"
japhb sorear, 1) Is there a particular repo I need to build to make that work? I don't see a bare 'glib' listed there, but I do see dbus-sharp-glib and gtk-sharp (and gtk-sharp-beans, whatever that is ...) 2) I'm one of those people who likes to just install all the optional libs that some project might want, so that I don't later get annoyed that some example code somewhere doesn't work. :-)
shinobicl___ rakudo: my @a; say @a.empty; 03:38
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«Method 'empty' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/kjeFloO1TU:1␤␤»
jnthn pmichaud: I don't feel strongly on the name, fwiw.
pmichaud perl 5 uses something along this line.
sorear I guess I'm using it in the mathematical sense - the spec is a list of axioms, but I need to know that they are consistant
jnthn pmichaud: I don't have an awesome suggestion right off.
shinobicl___ hehe... to much php for me on the last weeks
sorear having a model == convincing myself that there is *a* way to implement the axioms
jnthn sorear: If pmichaud++ implements it in Rakudo I guess that's a proof. ;) 03:39
sorear apparently pmichaud does not think that (my @a).defined is unimplementable
pmichaud no, I know it's implementable.
sorear sure, I can just copy it after he's done ;)
pmichaud essentially my @a; initializes itself to be Array of Any (a type object)
same as how my $a is initialized to a type of object 03:40
s/type of/type/
jnthn sorear: I forget the details, but I remember discussing this some time back and being happy it was doable. I forgot the details, but hopefully Pm remembers them better ;)
pmichaud yeah, I'm having to search. I wish there was a place where I could ack the #perl6 logs
the search on perlgeek.de isn't quite powerful enough to narrow it down on its own 03:41
I suppose I could scrape perlgeek.de's site via the text.pl hook 03:42
sorear oh right, I reamamber now 03:43
03:43 shinobicl___ left
pmichaud anyway, earlier #perl6 discussion today indicates that arrays (and hashes) need to have containers that aren't Scalar 03:43
i.e., currently treats an Array as being an aggregate of Scalar objects.... but Scalars don't flatten. So I want a container type that flattens. 03:44
sorear the big question that came up for me is - when autovivifying an Array object, we need to do $magic to write Array.new into the atomic container
pmichaud yes, it's related to autoviv as well :)
03:44 colomon left
sorear as I understand this model, my @a; push @a, 5; say @a; does exactly the same operations as with s/'@'/$/g 03:45
pmichaud correct.
sorear anyways, the autoviv magic is *not* @a = Array.new
because that changes the items of the array, not the @a atomic container
I guess we want some kind of primitive STORE(@a, Array.new) macro 03:46
which coincides with &infix:<=> for scalar containers
pmichaud anyway, before I can make much progress on Rakudo's side I need to have the container type that is distinguishable from Scalar somehow :)
then I can play with it all a bit and hopefully come up with something sane that also matches what TimToady has been describing 03:47
jnthn pmichaud: To add it, edit BOOTSTRAP.pm. Search for Scalar. It should be relatively clear what to do.
sorear re 'Variable' - I've actually seriously considered renaming it to SV, because 1. I have to type it a mazillion times 2. helps a possibly significant fraction of would-be core hackers to get it
oh, and wb pmichaud 03:48
pmichaud jnthn: okay, I'll give it a shot. I didn't know if there would be any big gotchas in fiddling with Scalar.
sorear how are y'all michauds doing?
jnthn pmichaud: Well, there's the "container spec" thing which you can likely cargo cult your way through.
pmichaud: It's the thingy that says "I'm see-through" 03:49
BOOTSTRAP.pm just configures it on the type.
03:49 cogno joined
pmichaud jnthn: well, part of the problem is that istr that there are some places where we treat "iscont" and "Scalar" as being roughly equivalent. 03:49
jnthn pmichaud: You may need to diddle some bits in src/binder/container.c
pmichaud ...and yes, it impacts the bindery :) 03:50
jnthn pmichaud: Yes, you'll likely also have to clean up there
pmichaud sorear: we michaud's continue to ride the rollercoasters here
03:50 orafu left
cogno Masak, that may be of interest to you : convergepl.org/documentation/1.2/ctmp/ 03:50
jnthn pmichaud: fwiw, the "binder" directory thse days would probably be better called "guts-written-in-c" or something :)
03:50 leprevost joined, orafu joined
pmichaud jnthn: yes, that's true also :) 03:50
jnthn It never quite bugged me enough to change it yet. 03:51
pmichaud anyway, I'll see if I can barrel my way through it, but I'm likely to have some questions/problems along the way
jnthn OK. I'm gonna sleep now, but I'll be about online relatively often; just phenny me, or privmsg. 03:52
pmichaud will do. thanks for the pointers
jnthn I don't always take the time to fully backlog while on vacation :)
pmichaud I don't even take the time to fully backlog while not on vacation :)
jnthn ;-)
OK, sleep time... :) 03:54
'night o/
japhb o/ 03:56
pmichaud afk for me too 03:57
bbt
04:04 cogno left 04:06 birdwindupbird joined 04:11 parthm joined 04:21 alester left 04:27 Su-Shee left 04:29 Su-Shee joined
sorear n: 1, 2i, -4 ... 256 04:45
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: ( no output )
sorear n: say 1, 2i, -4 ... 256
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«1 0+2i -4 0-8i 16+0i 0+32i -64+0i 0-128i 256+0i␤»
04:46 odoacre joined 05:22 leprevost left 05:34 stepnem left 05:39 stepnem joined 05:41 bbkr left
moritz o morning 05:49
r: say (1, 2i, -4 ... 256
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 2␤»
moritz r: say (1, 2i, -4 ... 256)[^°]
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix ^ instead at line 1, near "\x{b0}]"␤»
moritz r: say (1, 2i, -4 ... 256)[^10]
moritz not quite awake yet
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 05:50
05:52 kaleem joined
sorear hi moritz 05:54
moritz: see p6l 05:55
moritz nom: say (-4) / 2i 05:58
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«0+2i␤»
moritz nom: say (-4) / 2i == 2i / 1 05:59
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«True␤»
05:59 lestrrat left, lestrrat joined
moritz doesn't see any explanation for the hang on p6l 06:06
TimToady perl6: say (-16+0i) * (-16+0i) ~~ 256
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«True␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
TimToady seems to smartmatch okay 06:07
moritz it seems it hangs while trying to deduce the sequence, not while generating it
r: say (1, 2, 4 ... 250)[^10]
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512␤»
TimToady so it should work even if 256 doesn't match 06:08
moritz correct
oh 06:11
nom: say 2i != 0
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 06:12
moritz nom: say 2i !== 0
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady huh, dededededesugaring?
nom: say not 2i == 0 06:13
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady nom: say i != 0 06:14
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
TimToady nom: say i != 0i
moritz != doesn't just redispatch to !==
but has its own candidates
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
moritz and the ones for Complex are missing 06:15
and so it t 06:16
tries to convert to .Numeric, and then redispatches
and ends up in the same candidate
TimToady wonders if implementing != that way can do the correct not-raising in the face of junctions that a true ! metaop can do as a higher-order function 06:18
06:19 mucker joined
TimToady seems like rewriting to !== would be cleaner in that respect 06:19
moritz nom: my $j = 1|2|3; say $j != 3; say $j !== 3
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3: OUTPUT«any(True, True, False)␤False␤»
TimToady niecza: my $j = 1|2|3; say $j != 3; say $j !== 3 06:20
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«False␤False␤»
TimToady niecza has it right 06:21
moritz dispatching to the !== form has another advantage
fewer ops to define when adding custom types
TimToady indeed
06:22 lestrrat left 06:23 lestrrat joined
TimToady perl6: my $j = 1|2|3; say $j ne 3; say $j !ne 3 06:26
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«any(VBool False,VBool True)␤any(VBool False,VBool True)␤»
tadzik good morning
TimToady perl6: my $j = 1|2|3; say $j ne 3; say $j !eq 3 06:27
06:27 benabik left
p6eval rakudo e2ebf3, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«False␤False␤» 06:27
..pugs: OUTPUT«any(VBool False,VBool True)␤any(VBool False,VBool True)␤»
TimToady pugs doesn't do not-raising since it hadn't been specced yet
06:29 benabik joined
dalek kudo/nom: 4a247b1 | moritz++ | src/core/ (5 files):
make != redispatch to not ==

this fixes both a hang of != with complex numbers, and not-raising with Junctions only natively typed variants of != and a (Mu, Mu) candidate remain		 06:43
06:45 wolfman2000 left
dalek ast: 57f0c48 | moritz++ | S32-num/complex.t:
!= and complex numbers
 06:50
06:52 y3llow left 06:53 kcwu left 06:54 bruges left 06:55 benabik_ joined 06:56 benabik left, benabik_ is now known as benabik 07:00 benabik left 07:02 benabik joined, havenn joined 07:05 NamelessTee joined 07:14 wtw joined
moritz \o/ new HPMoR chapter! 07:29
07:31 havenn left, bruges joined 07:32 kcwu joined, y3llow joined 07:34 y3llow left, y3llow joined 07:36 y3llow left, y3llow joined 07:40 tarch joined 07:46 araujo left 07:48 benabik_ joined 07:49 benabik left, benabik_ is now known as benabik 08:03 mj41 joined 08:11 pjcj left 08:18 fglock joined 08:20 pjcj joined
tadzik I'm running late on those 08:22
08:33 lestrrat left 08:34 lestrrat joined 08:39 am0c joined 08:46 parthm left 08:55 lestrrat left 08:56 lestrrat joined
moritz I'm upgrade feather2 to Debian stable now 08:59
*upgrading
just noticed that it runs oldstable, which doesn't receive security updates anymore 09:00
tadzik moritz++
moritz Juerd: can I safely reboot feather2 after the kernel upgrade? 09:01
09:07 sisar joined
moritz oh, and I'm also running upgrades on feather{1,3} 09:18
though they don't involve major version upgrades 09:19
The apache2 configtest failed, so we are trying to kill it manually. This is almost certainly suboptimal, so please make sure your system is working as you'd expect now! ... (warning). 09:26
eeks.
09:28 nwc10 joined
moritz /usr/sbin/apache2: symbol lookup error: /usr/sbin/apache2: undefined symbol: pcre_info 09:37
oh, fun 09:42
libpcre3 dropped some symbols
bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=665300 09:43
ok, apache runs again 09:52
nom: (anon sub tract($n) { say $n; tract($n-1) if $n }).(5) 09:54
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot use 'anon' with sub declaration␤at /tmp/EaunHq68DB:1␤»
moritz hm 09:55
10:11 colomon joined 10:12 Guest81734 left 10:31 sisar left 10:32 retup_work left 10:35 bbkr joined
bbkr release \o/ 10:36
felher If i write >>echo -e 'my $x; $x := 1' | nom<< it works just fine. But if i write >>echo -e 'my $x;\n $x := 1' | nom<< i get 'Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side'. Is this expected behavior? 10:43
10:45 daxim joined 10:47 retup_work joined
arnsholt felher: Two things to try, I think. 1) Does the same thing happen if you put the two in files? 2) What happens if you type the two into the REPL? 10:49
felher arnsholt: Piping the output of echo to nom should be the same as typing them into repl. 10:54
arnsholt Should be the same, yes. Is it? (I don't have an updated nom on hand, so I can't test myself) 10:55
felher arnsholt: if i put in a file an run it, it doesn't happen (NQP only allows binding, so NQP wouldn't work at all if re-binding on different lines wouldn't work) :) 10:56
bbkr same behavior on OSX, weird...
felher arnsholt: yes, it is. As long as nom doesn't do something strange with a detected pipe. But since >> cat | nom << just works like repl, i don't think it does :) 10:57
bbkr for me it happens also if put in file and piped using "cat file | perl6" 10:58
felher bbkr: yeah, >> cat file | perl6 << is the same as executing perl6 and then typing it in. 10:59
bbkr: i don't know how high your unix-skillz are, but that is how it works: if you write programm | other-program, then other-program's standard input gets connected to the standard output of program. The catch is, that the standard input is where what you type comes from. So the other-program doesn't see a difference between you typing whats in the file and the 'cat file | other-program' 11:02
bbkr: it can, however, detect it if it wants to. There a 'isatty(int fd)' function, that checks if your input is a tty or something different. 11:03
to be more precise. It checks if the 'thing' associated with the file-descriptor fd is a tty or something else :) 11:05
11:11 xinming joined
bbkr echo -e 'my $x;\nsay $*IN.get' | perl6 - this one works as expected, I thought that string that should be interpreted is somehow bound to $*IN, but it's not the case 11:12
felher bbkr: if you do what you've written, then perl6 'consumes' everything including 'say $*IN.get' to execute it. $*IN.get gets executed and is waiting for a some input. But since you didn't supply any more input, it doesn't get any and sees that it has read all that there is and returns an empty string. 11:16
bbkr: >>echo -e 'my $x;\nsay $*IN.get\nblar' | perl6<< will also get you "blar" printed, fwiw :) 11:17
bbkr oh, nice trick for torturing people on job interviews, thanks! 11:19
felher bbkr: what is the job you interview people for? 11:20
bbkr perl development for getresponse.com engine 11:22
felher bbkr: ah, so i guess you are from germany, too? 11:24
bbkr Poland 11:25
felher bbkr: kk :) 11:27
tadzik bbkr: where are you hiring, ooc?
11:29 pernatiy joined
bbkr Trojmiasto 11:29
tadzik I see 11:30
bbkr what should I do to include JSON::RPC in Star release? is there any review process? 11:31
tadzik is it useful and does it pass its tests? If so, then I (or anyone else) can include it any time 11:32
11:32 jlaire left
masak good postnoon, #perl6. 11:33
bbkr useful. checking compatibility with .03 release right now.
masak enjoyed a nice antenoon with breakfast and HPMoR 11:34
tadzik hello masak 11:36
11:40 jlaire joined
masak ooh, more nice p6l emails. 11:40
we should predict the imminent death of other fora we wish to enliven :P
bbkr .03 release failed to build with: "/opt/local/include/unicode/uset.h:250: error: function declaration isn't a prototype" 11:46
tadzik are you using blead parrot, maybe?
benabik ... I thought we fixed that.
How do you specify ICU's location? 11:47
bbkr I downloaded tarball and ran " perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot", ICU is installed from MacPorts (no problem with previous release building)
benabik Oh dear, did we fix that after the release? Blarg. 11:49
bbkr I use icu 4.6.1
benabik We upgraded something to an error, but the way we included ICU makes the check hit it.
11:50 araujo joined, am0c left 11:51 skids left
benabik Blarg. I have to go and don't have a quick answer for you. It was fixed in a6b93466fca7d6a7c335d649954e5bb71e339aa7 11:52
masak r: .say for 1, 2i, -4 ... 256 11:55
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«1␤0+2i␤-4␤-0-8i␤16+-0i␤0+32i␤-64+0i␤-0-128i␤256+-0i␤»
masak \o/ 11:56
moritz++ 12:01
12:06 not_gerd joined
not_gerd hello, #perl6 12:07
bbkr: use --gen-parrot=master or fix the ICU header by replacing `uset_openEmpty();` with `uset_openEmpty(void);`
bbkr testing right now 12:09
12:24 jaldhar left 12:32 kaleem left, kaleem joined 12:33 fgomez left 12:39 benabik left 12:46 jaldhar joined
bbkr --gen-parrot=master did not help :( 12:58
13:00 xinming left
dalek ast: f7b449b | moritz++ | S03-junctions/autothreading.t:
test that != autothreads like !==
 13:04
not_gerd bbkr: can you paste your config_lib.pir somewhere?
13:05 xinming joined 13:06 xinming left, xinming joined 13:11 xinming left 13:12 xinming joined 13:19 NamelessTee left, skids joined
jnthn phenny: any messages for me? :) 13:24
ah, no then
13:24 xinming left
nwc10 lucky you. More time for holiday. 13:24
moritz jnthn: but there's something I wanted to ask you :-)
jnthn: at GPW we discussed throwing exceptions by having a hash of subs that generate those exceptions... 13:25
jnthn Ja.
moritz jnthn: somehow that needs to be installed in a parrot namespace
jnthn: the question is, when and how?
13:26 xinming joined
moritz immediately after it is assembled, and then at startup? 13:26
bbkr bbkr.org/~bbkr/config_lib.pir 13:27
jnthn moritz: Try putting them in a Pelr 6 hash at BEGIN time (e.g. in a BEGIN block). Then in the setting mainline or in an INIT block after that, grab said hash, use nqp::getattr to pull out the storage (a Parrot hash) and stick it into the Parrot ns like we do with PROCESS in BOOTSTRAP.pm
*Perl
nwc10: Well, waiting for a vaguely infrequent bus to take me out to a cable car so I can see some nice views at the moment :) 13:28
So have some spare minutes anyway :)
moritz jnthn: is the setting mainline run every time we run a Perl 6 program? 13:30
not_gerd bbkr: your ICU headers are in /opt/local/include?
jnthn Once
13:30 xinming left 13:31 sisar joined
moritz are the namespaces serialized? 13:31
bbkr not_gerd: /opt/local/include/unicode/icudataver.h 13:32
not_gerd: and /opt/local/include/unicode/icuplug.h
jnthn moritz: No 13:33
moritz: That's why I said build a Perl 6 hash in a BEGIN block :)
And install it each time. :)
e.g.
moritz ah, the INIT block is run each time
jnthn pir::op_to_install(..., nqp::getattr(BEGIN { }, Hash, '$!storage')) 13:34
moritz but is INIT early enough?
jnthn moritz: The setting's INIT time happens when it's loaded 13:35
moritz: That happens before any program-space BEGIN blocks
moritz jnthn: ah, good 13:36
nom: constant %h = 1, 2; say %h.WHAT 13:37
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
moritz submits rakudobug
jnthn Hm :)
jnthn wonders how that one is meant to work :) 13:38
Though, constant %h = { ... } gets you what you want.
moritz maybe like constant %h := (my % = ...)
jnthn Or that.
moritz n: constant %h = 1, 2; say %h.WHAT 13:39
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
moritz nom: 1.foo 13:40
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«Method 'foo' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/B6qDyNoYwE:1␤␤»
moritz nom: role a { }; a.foo 13:41
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«Method 'foo' not found for invocant of class 'a'␤ in <anon> at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:1166␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/H3JPtdWv1O:1␤␤»
pmichaud good morning, #perl6 13:42
moritz good am, pm
not_gerd bbkr: could you apply gist.github.com/2170678 to your parrot checkout?
after that, do a perl Configure.pl --optimize --prefix=/Users/bbkr/Developer/Perl6/rakudo/install from your parrot source directory 13:43
if you config_lib.pir then contains some -isystem lines, running make should work again...
jnthn morning, pmichaud 13:45
Hey, we have the same idea of morning! :)
pmichaud jnthn: yes, very odd
nwc10 the declination on his compass will differ 13:46
13:47 xinming joined
pmichaud well, that's just because of my magnetic personality :) 13:48
jnthn :) 13:49
13:50 kaleem left
jnthn OK, time for me to go and find my bus :) 13:50
back in some hours
moritz r: my $h := pir::get_root_global__PS('perl6'); nqp::bindkey($h, 'abc', 'foo') 13:52
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: ( no output )
pmichaud might need a 'Mu'
moritz my-variables are Mu-typed by default 13:53
13:54 plutoid joined 13:56 mucker left 13:57 mucker joined
moritz r: INIT { constant %h := { 'abc' => 'foo' } } 14:01
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: ( no output )
14:01 ascent_ left, ascent_ joined 14:02 havenn joined, mucker left
masak r: say <h d r f sh>.pick(*) X~ 'uffle' 14:02
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«duffle fuffle shuffle huffle ruffle␤»
14:03 mucker joined
moritz r: INIT { constant %h := { 'abc' => { 2.sqrt(:$^foo, :$^bar) } } } 14:03
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: ( no output )
moritz r: say <h d r f sh>.roll(4) X~ 'uffle'
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«ruffle huffle ruffle shuffle␤»
moritz pseudo-random poetry ftw!
pmichaud is there a way to determine that a Parameter is slurpy positional? 14:04
masak this backlog is brought to you by Dr Seuss.
moritz theres a .slurpy method
and I think !.named
14:05 mucker left
moritz yes, .slurpy && !.named 14:05
pmichaud: if you're doing that for arity/count thing, you also need to consider .capture
pmichaud sub xyz(*%abc) { 1 }; say xyz.signature.params.perl
rakudo: sub xyz(*%abc) { 1 }; say xyz.signature.params.perl
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«Method 'signature' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/vcEGzqNMzq:1␤␤»
14:05 mucker joined
moritz &xyz 14:05
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(*%abc) { 1 }; say &xyz.signature.params.perl
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«(%abc!,).list␤»
moritz note that Parameter.perl isn't very good at the moment 14:06
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(*%abc) { 1 }; say &xyz.signature.params{'abc'}.perl
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«Method 'at_key' not found for invocant of class 'List'␤ in method postcircumfix:<{ }> at src/gen/CORE.setting:1184␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/jqIjDeQNiA:1␤␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(*%abc) { 1 }; say &xyz.signature.params[0]
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«%abc!␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(*%abc) { 1 }; say &xyz.signature.params[0].slurpy
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«True␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(*%abc) { 1 }; say &xyz.signature.params[0].named
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«True␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(*%abc) { 1 }; say &xyz.signature.params[0].positional
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«False␤»
pmichaud hmmm.
14:07 nwc10 left
pmichaud okay, .slurpy and !.named 14:07
rakudo: sub xyz(*@abc) { 1 }; say &xyz.signature.params[0].positional
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«False␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(*@abc) { 1 }; say &xyz.signature.params[0].named
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«False␤»
pmichaud rakudo: sub xyz(*@abc) { 1 }; say &xyz.signature.params[0].slurpy
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«True␤»
pmichaud moritz: .capture, yes, thanks. 14:08
14:08 NamelessTee joined 14:10 JimmyZ joined, mucker left 14:12 leprevost joined 14:15 havenn left 14:18 havenn joined
bbkr not_gerd: your patch worked, thanks! 14:19
not_gerd moritz: github.com/parrot/parrot/pull/748 14:20
masak not_gerd++ 14:21
bbkr not_gerd++
moritz not_gerd: thanks. Sadly I know next to nothing about mac os, so I'd like to wait for somebody who does to apply it
masak moritz: any thoughts on the two test failures from yesterday? 14:24
moritz masak: just that it's specific to Mac OS
masak: I got a similar report at GPW
masak: is it new(ish)? 14:25
method dispatch:<.^>(Mu \$self: $name, |$c) { 14:26
self.HOW."$name"($self, |$c)
}
that one is causing infinite recursion during compilation during my experiments 14:27
probably because it's called before .Stringy or .Str or so isn't yet set up correctly
any idea how to make that more robust?
pmichaud is $name not a string at that point? 14:29
moritz I have no idea
pmichaud as listed there it seems pretty robust-ish to me
moritz I'm trying to create a hash at compile time inside the setting
pmichaud at what point inside the setting? 14:31
before Stringy/Str are defined?
moritz no, later (in Exception.pm)
masak moritz: I'm not on Mac OS. I made the release on Arch Linux for the first time yesterday.
moritz masak: oh.
masak: then it is dependent on some other parameter that I don't know
(maybe ICU version?) 14:32
masak maybe.
moritz masak: do you have ICU installed?
masak yes.
icuinfo says 'Compiled-Version: 4.8.1.1'
14:32 jaldhar left
masak it's from 2011. 14:33
moritz gist.github.com/2171207 that's the bottom of the backtrace
14:34 havenn left, havenn joined
pmichaud my patch for .count seems to work -- all spectests pass 14:35
moritz \o/ 14:36
felher If i want to specify this sub returns a String-Array would i write "my Array of Str sub returns-array-of-strings() { ... }"?
not_gerd bbkr: alester just merged my pull request, ie --gen-parrot=master should work again
moritz n: say 0, sub { @_.elems } ... 5 14:37
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5␤»
moritz pmichaud: does that sequence work with your patch?
felher: yes (though NYI)
pmichaud moritz: nope
but I can likely fix that.
moritz :(
:)
sjn (: 14:38
pmichaud need a short break, first -- brb
felher moritz: good :) 14:39
ty
TimToady ◡̈ 14:41
masak ? 14:42
TimToady might look better at irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-03-23#i_5340249 14:43
masak oh, Unicode sorcery.
I desperately need to get gnome-terminal configured properly on Arch.
TimToady doesn't print right on my gnome terminal
tadzik looks fine in Konsole 14:44
masak I'm not desperate enough to install KDE stuff. :)
yet.
TimToady well, there's always sourcery as a fallback 14:45
huf is it supposed to be a smiley?
TimToady yes
tadzik masak: I think it's a matter of font, not a terminal
TimToady looks good in firefox on my machine
huf i wonder why my browser cant display it right but urxvt can :D
yeah, probably a bad font
tadzik I'm using Dejavu sans mono
masak tadzik: know any good fixed-width Linux fonts that do the whole Unicode thingy?
huf masak: fixed is pretty good 14:46
at least one size of it ;)
tadzik masak: dejavu sans mono is fine, terminus also has plenty of characters
although I had no, this...
r: say ''
p6eval rakudo 4a247b: OUTPUT«␤»
tadzik yeah, this square on terminus on arch, while I have it on terminus on debian :)
14:47 tokuhiro_ joined
masak I have both DejaVu Sans Mono and Terminus installed already. neither of them gives me any Unicode characters :( 14:47
I tried playing around with the LANG envvar earlier today, but in vain.
tadzik do you see lots of UTF-8 upon typing 'locale'? 14:48
masak no, it be filled with "POSIX". 14:49
maybe that's the problem.
moritz try setting LANG=en_US.UTF-8
14:50 thou joined 14:51 thou left
masak that's what I tried earlier today, through 'export LANG=en_US.UTF-8' 14:52
no change.
moritz it won't affect the terminal you're in 14:53
tadzik masak: go for /etc/locale-gen, see if they're there
moritz you need to start a new terminal from within the shell where you changed the variable
tadzik or locale.gen
masak moritz: yes, I restarted gnome-terminal. no change.
tadzik: ok, looking. 14:54
moritz masak: where did you define the env variable?
14:55 jferrero left
pmichaud was there an RT ticket filed for the slurpy sequences issue? 14:56
moritz dunno 14:57
masak moritz: in ~/.bash_profile
moritz masak: that's probably too late
masak tadzik: hm, yes. I found /etc/locale-gen, and commented out en_US.UTF-8
moritz: any recommendations where to put it?
moritz masak: how do you launch the terminal? 14:58
14:58 jferrero joined
moritz if it's a desktop icon, it probably has some options to define env variables, or execute shell scripts 14:58
that's where you should do it
masak no, so far I've just beeing typing 'gnome-terminal' in xterm. 14:59
moritz then it's ok, if you source the .bashrc inside the xterm
tadzik masak: no no, don't comment it _out_ 15:00
masak tadzik: er, sorry. uncommented :)
tadzik masak: ok, now run locale-gen 15:01
masak moritz++' suggestion (source .bash_profile and then start gnome-terminal) works and causes locale to spew out a lot of en_US.UTF-8 lines. 15:02
pmichaud pmichaud@kiwi:~/p6/rakudo$ ./perl6
> say 0, sub { @_.elems } ... 5
0 1 2 3 4 5
moritz \o/
masak possibly tadzik's help was necessary for this to work as well (I did run locale-gen after editing the file)
pmichaud spectesting
masak but I'm still not getting Unicode chars in gnome-terminal :/
tadzik ok, good that it works :)
masak: what font are you using? 15:03
moritz masak: none at all?
pmichaud fwiw, I've been using rxvt-unicode as my terminal for some time and I like it.
tadzik masak: how about zażółć gęślą jaźń?
yeah, urxvt is nice
15:03 eiro left
masak tadzik: DejaVu Sans Mono. 15:03
tadzik should be fine 15:04
masak yeah, it should!
pmichaud: ok, I'll try that one.
tadzik masak: are you _now_ on the terminal with dejavu and a proper locale?
pmichaud package is likely urxvt
tadzik try copypasting zażółć gęślą jaźń there, if not
masak tadzik: I am _now_ on that gnome-terminal, yes. 15:05
tadzik okay
hmm
masak tadzik: I see 'za?�?? g??l? ja??'
though there are more question marks on my screen than in the backlog. 15:06
tadzik okay, that's interesting
15:06 jferrero left
moritz masak: try xterm -en utf8 just for the lulz 15:07
tadzik masak: are you on ssh by any chance?
masak fwiw, the `locale` output on feather (to where I'm ssh'ing and where I'm using screen) is all "POSIX".
moritz masak: first test Unicode stuff locally 15:08
perlgeek.de/en/article/set-up-a-cle...nvironment
masak but the ssh connexion has never been the problem before, so I assumed that wasn't it.
15:08 eiro joined
masak ok. 15:08
pmichaud the font I've been using with my terminal is called "Monospace"
it appears to come from the cups package
although I could be wrong about its source 15:09
15:09 xinming left
masak moritz: the euro sign test works locally. 15:09
works in my ssh'd session on feather, too.
moritz masak: then don't mess with the terminal, the problem is somewhere else
15:09 araujo left
TimToady whenever I try to look at my gnome-terminal profile, it blows up all my terminals, *and* my firefox, *and* my gnome-panel, sigh 15:10
15:10 araujo joined
TimToady is starting to hate harder on Ubuntu 15:10
masak moritz: my `locale` output is now very similar to the one in your article. just my last line LC_ALL is empty.
moritz masak: that's OK (LC_ALL is just a mechanism to set all the other LC_ entries) 15:11
masak moritz: "Setting up the terminal emulator for your terminal emulator" -- you probably meant "Setting up the encoding" there.
moritz masak: ah, yes
masak .oO( yo dawg )
moritz will fix when I get home
dalek kudo/nom: 4d6754b | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (3 files):
Fix .count for subs with slurpy positionals. Partially addresses RT #111646.
 15:12
15:12 pyrimidine joined
masak ah. screen -U was the last necessary step. 15:12
moritz++
moritz any students around? Parrot Foundation would be available to mentor Rakudo GSoC projects
masak ah, that's nice.
it's like getting color vision :)
15:12 eiro left
masak tadzik: zażółć gęślą jaźń! zażółć gęślą jaźń! 15:13
tadzik congratulations! :)
masak \»ö«/
tadzik I'll buy you a beer if you can tell me what it means without asking a native Polish speaker
15:13 eiro joined
pmichaud masak: Hey! Watch where you're flapping those things! 15:14
masak :P
moritz ¡ǝɔıu sı ʇɹoddns ǝpoɔıu∩
15:14 PacoAir joined, plutoid left
masak tadzik: it's the "lorem ipsum" of Polish, but I'm not sure what it means. 15:15
if anything. 15:16
frankly it looks too mark-dense to be real Polish.
tadzik it's a unicode check, I think it just contains all the diacritics
it means "yellow the self-counsciousness of a goose"
moritz :-)
tadzik phenny: pl en "jaźń?"
phenny: pl en "jaźń"?
phenny tadzik: "self" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
moritz that's like "the quick brown fox..." 15:17
tadzik yes
masak tadzik: so, "yellow" as a verb? as a... czasownik?
tadzik exactly. To make something yellow 15:18
masak got it.
tadzik and a order-ish one
as in "yellow it, soldier!"
masak imperative.
tadzik right
masak imperatyw
tadzik tryb rozkazujący
which probably means "imperative mode"
masak right.
tadzik phenny: "tryb rozkazujący"?
phenny tadzik: "imperative" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
masak well, "mood", actually.
tadzik right 15:19
I don't think so
masak yes. that's the term.
tadzik I thought mood is about how you feel about yourself
masak there are a number of grammatical moods for verbs. they sit outside of the time forms, for example.
indicative is the one with all the time forms. imperative is for orders. subjunctive mood is the weird one. conditional is for speaking hypothetically. 15:20
tadzik yeah. Tryb oznajmujący, rozkazujący, something and przypuszczający 15:21
masak see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realis_mood
pmichaud cleans up his patch a bit.
tadzik phenny: en pl "subjunctive mood"?
phenny tadzik: "subjunctive nastrój" (en to pl, translate.google.com)
moritz in French, subjunctive is slightly hypothetically
is that normal?
I mean, is it similar in other languages?
TimToady in classical Greek, subjunctive is less hypothetical than optative, so maybe it's an Indo-European thing 15:22
masak moritz: it's used for wish/emotion/possibility/judgement/opinion/necessity, according to Wikipedia.
moritz masak: ok, thanks 15:23
masak moritz: "I am locking my car, so that it not be stolen."
moritz though the logic in French always seemed leaky
masak moritz: "Mi shlosas mian auton, por ke neniu shtel*u* ghin."
moritz in particular I never understood why hoping didn't introduce subjonctif 15:24
phenny: "J'espere que"
phenny: "J'espere que"?
phenny moritz: "J'espere that" (es to en, translate.google.com)
TimToady you're hoping for a certainty :)
pmichaud > my @list = <a b c d>; say @list.reduce(&infix:<~>) 15:25
abcd
masak moritz: I would indeed have guessed that such a wording would introduce the subjunctive, yes.
moritz phenny: "J'esper que"?
phenny moritz: "J'esper that" (es to en, translate.google.com)
masak but my French is verry rousty. and maybe it was never that good. :)
moritz can't remember the spelling either
masak first was right, I believe.
pmichaud google is translating es to en for some reason there
moritz phenny: en fr "I hope that"?
phenny moritz: "J'espère que" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
15:25 araujo left
masak phenny: en fr "I hope that no-one steals my car!"? 15:26
phenny masak: "J'espère que personne ne vole ma voiture !" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
masak phenny: en fr "I hope that no-one will steal my car!"?
phenny masak: "J'espère que personne ne volera ma voiture!" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
masak looks like ordinary indicative to me.
phenny: en fr "I wish that no-one will steal my car!"?
phenny masak: "Je souhaite que personne ne volera ma voiture!" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
moritz phenny: en fr "I admire that no-one steals my car"? 15:28
phenny moritz: "J'admire que personne ne vole ma voiture" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
masak phenny: en fr "I sincerely conjecture that no-one steals my car!"?
phenny masak: "Je conjecture sincèrement que personne ne vole ma voiture !" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
moritz I'm pretty sure that admire should trigger the subjunctif
TimToady phenny: en fr "I wish that no-one would steal my car!"?
phenny TimToady: "Je souhaite que personne ne volerait ma voiture!" (en to fr, translate.google.com)
masak ooh 15:29
but isn't that conditional?
TimToady would/should are subjunctive in English
masak ah, right.
TimToady though it's going away
pmichaud moritz: I have a question on the 2012.01 Rakudo release 15:30
TimToady mostly being replaced by past tense "If I should go" --> "If I went"
moritz pmichaud: ask away
15:31 araujo joined, araujo left, araujo joined
pmichaud there's a discussion taking place on the debian packaging lists regarding Parrot and Rakudo packaging.... 2012.01 was shipped as requiring Parrot 3.11.0 -- I forgot why we didn't ship with a requirement for Parrot 4.0.0 15:31
moritz pmichaud: it was simply a mistake
pmichaud so, 2012.01 should work with 4.0.0 then, yes?
moritz pmichaud: nobody changed PARROT_REVISION during the development cycle, so when I looked at the file while doing the release, I thought it was already bumped 15:32
pmichaud: should work with both, yes
pmichaud okay, I'll inform the list.
moritz s/both/either/
pmichaud thanks.
moritz you're welcome
that was the first nom release, right?
pmichaud yes, I think so. 15:33
moritz hm, no 15:34
2011.09 was
pmichaud anyway, my question was answered :)
moritz "This is the first compiler release from the latest development branch
of Rakudo."
dalek kudo/typed-ex-hash: c812679 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
allow "anon sub" again
 15:36
kudo/typed-ex-hash: e55477f | moritz++ | src/core/List.pm:
try to optimize the common case of List.Bool
moritz note that those two commits are not really what that branch is about
15:37 wtw left
moritz might be interesting to benchmark e55477f cherry-picked into nom 15:37
15:39 JimmyZ left 15:40 not_gerd left
dalek kudo/nom: 69920db | pmichaud++ | src/core/Signature.pm:
Refactor Signature.count to properly handle arity for capture parameters. Fixes RT #111646.
 15:40
masak takes a Fine Walk in the Fine Weather
moritz pmichaud: ah, I see you made the same prototype changes as I did in the slurpy-sequence branch 15:42
pmichaud yes, the prototypes were wrong. :-) 15:43
moritz and you found out while spectesting the sequence tests :-) 15:47
pmichaud Correct. 15:49
15:50 Patterner left 15:52 pjcj is now known as TPF|pjcj, Psyche^ joined, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
flussence
.oO( CSS would be a good macro language for HTML, now I think about it... )
 15:52
sorear good * #perl6 15:53
moritz n: sub f(*@a) { say f.count }
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ @a is declared but not used at /tmp/ETwmhGhFtL line 1:␤------> sub f(*⏏@a) { say f.count }␤␤»
15:53 jferrero joined
moritz n: sub f(*@a) { say f.count }; f 15:54
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ @a is declared but not used at /tmp/4VeAuRYkPa line 1:␤------> sub f(*⏏@a) { say f.count }; f␤␤Stacktrace:␤␤Segmentation fault␤»
15:54 rafl is now known as rafl|tpf
moritz n: sub f(*@a) { }; say &f.count 15:54
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ @a is declared but not used at /tmp/ZSIm_Rfcu_ line 1:␤------> sub f(*⏏@a) { }; say &f.count␤␤Inf␤»
moritz n: sub f(*@a) { @a }; say &f.count
15:54 rafl|tpf is now known as TPF|rafl, tokuhiro_ left
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Inf␤» 15:54
15:55 tokuhiro_ joined
sorear moritz: do you have a clue why it's segfaulting> 15:55
moritz sorear: wait, what is segfaulting?
TimToady f calling f is an infinite regress
tadzik doesn't it segfaulting when it tries to print a stacktrace?
moritz ah, that one
tadzik s/ing//
moritz n: sub f() { f }; f 15:56
sorear ok, that I won't worry too much about
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
flussence whoa, niecza really doesn't like running in gdb..
pmichaud is S03-sequence/limit-arity-2-or-more.t still correct per spec?
moritz pmichaud: some of them are certainly wrong 15:57
pmichaud the spec talks about smartmatching against the current candidate
sorear if the backtrace printer is overflowing the C stack, things will go wrong
dalek ast: ca63a93 | moritz++ | S03-sequence/limit-arity-2-or-more.t:
remove several surely unspecced tests
sorear masak: what mail client do you use? 15:58
moritz pmichaud: well, that test does seem to do proper smartmatching
15:58 ascent_ left, ascent_ joined
flussence when I run it locally, that segfault line... isn't 15:58
moritz flussence: might be related to the resource limit on the host 15:59
pmichaud I don't understand how it's doing proper smartmatching.
moritz pmichaud: the RHS is something like (*-*).abs < 2
which is a WhateverCode object
pmichaud right, which takes two arguments
but the current candidate is a single scalar
moritz ah
flussence moritz: probably. I just did a ulimit -v 512MB before I ran it and I think mono's stuck in a GC loop now :)
moritz pmichaud: dunno if it's specced, but it seems like useful-ish feature... maybe :-) 16:00
for aborting sequences when they have converged enough
flussence well, with no limit it successfully eats all my RAM before crashing.
pmichaud the spec says:
Assuming the next candidate value is in C<$x> and the 16:01
first element of the right side is in C<$limit>, the two operators
are implemented respectively as:
... last($x) if $x ~~ $limit; ...^ last if $x ~~ $limit;
moritz which implies it's non-spec
pmichaud right
TimToady perl6: my $x = 42; $x //= say "phooey"; 16:05
p6eval pugs, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: ( no output )
..rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«phooey␤»
moritz EINSUFFICIENTTHUNKING 16:06
TimToady oh, you were just doing conditional initialization with //= {}
but it still creates the {} unnecessarily
16:07 tokuhir__ joined
TimToady is waybacklogging :) 16:08
moritz I think that was less than 36 hours ago
16:08 havenn left
TimToady that's way back in backlogging years :) 16:08
16:11 tokuhiro_ left, tokuhir__ left
colomon is considering the fact that from C to C++, printf ("Hello world!n); became std::cout << "Hello world!" << endl; whereas from perl 5 to perl 6, it went from print "Hello worldn"; to say "Hello world"; 16:13
colomon missed a std:: in the C++ example....
moritz proposes to add the &h built-in, which prints "Hello, Worldn"
then you can just write h 16:14
colomon :p
TimToady "Overloading << for I/O--you think that's cute now..."
16:15 pernatiy left
TimToady though one could argue that << represents an IO monad, implemented poorly 16:15
16:15 daxim left
pmichaud make it &H instead of &h :-) 16:15
16:15 simcop2387 left
colomon Hey, then even my 3-year-old could program Hello world! 16:16
TimToady: my real objection is the complete anti-Huffmanization of C++. All these really common things like I/O take more characters to do in C++ than in C. 16:17
16:17 simcop2387 joined
TimToady well, maybe C++ is just trying to discourage you from doing I/O. :) 16:19
colomon is also remembering why he really (if ever) does test first coding in C++. The tests end up being so crazily verbose....
TimToady++
TimToady *rarely?
16:19 havenn joined
colomon *rarely 16:19
sorear making perl 6 a superset of hq9+ 16:21
16:22 MayDaniel joined 16:24 lestrrat left 16:26 lestrrat joined 16:29 mj41 left 16:38 szbalint left 16:40 fglock left
TimToady sorear: does niecza have anything like viv's --yaml option? 16:40
sorear No. 16:45
it used to, but I haven't figured out how that would interact with BEGIN 16:46
I am now thinking that a working --yaml would have a lot of properties in common with a working quasi { } 16:49
sorear pokes masak
moritz -quaml
pmichaud TimToady: I have some questions about flattening, when you have time 16:51
16:56 birdwindupbird left
TimToady has some time, and possibly even some answers, which have some vague possibility of being correct...ish... 17:00
pmichaud I should first note that I haven't been expecting %h<a> = 1,2,3; to ultimately store a Parcel into %h<a>. In earlier versions of Rakudo and the spec, the item assignment resulted in the Parcel being converted to something else (e.g., a Seq). 17:03
In nom I just never got around to figuring out what it should be converted to.
the somewhat analogous case is something like %h<a> = @b 17:04
moritz one thing i like about the "every array element is an item" is that it means that whenever I do @a[$i], I know that i have to @() it to iterate over it
pmichaud which ends up turning the flattening-array @b into a scalar array
moritz if that changes, I need to introspect the array item, or always contextualize it
sorear +1 to keeping "every array element is an item" 17:05
pmichaud r: my @b = <a b c>; my %h; %h<a> = @b; say %h.perl
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«("a" => ["a", "b", "c"]).hash␤»
moritz r: my @b = <a b c>; my %h; %h<a> = @b; say 1 for %h<a>
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz r: my @b = <a b c>; my %h; %h<a> = @b; say 1 for @%h<a>
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Invalid hard reference syntax at line 1, near "%h<a>"␤»
moritz r: my @b = <a b c>; my %h; %h<a> = @b; say 1 for @(%h<a>)
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤»
sorear pmichaud: do you still think Parcel should mutate into some sort of List when assigned to a non-flattening container? 17:07
pmichaud sorear: I have no problem with it remaining a Parcel... but it needs to be a scalar Parcel I think.
i.e., something that doesn't flatten unless commanded (because it's in a container)
we'd mutate it into some form of List if we wanted to keep Parcel itself as an uncommon sort of thing to appear in data structures 17:08
moritz currently I don't see much use in mutating it 17:09
TimToady hates having to put .list in so many places
pmichaud TimToady: well, prefix @ then
moritz TimToady: better than having to put a contextualizer everywhere
pmichaud join ';', @%hash<a>
TimToady hates that too
that doesn't work
moritz so, can we make a prefix:<@> ? 17:10
join ':', @ %hash<a>
TimToady to me, it's like any other function return that is non-commital on flattening
pmichaud TimToady: you mean the .<a> part?
TimToady yes 17:11
foo 1,2,3, bar(), 4,5
pmichaud actually, it's not the .<a> that is making it scalar
it's the fact that the element is in a scalar container
TimToady bar does not commit to whether the result flattens until foo binds it
pmichaud in particular, if we were to have %h<a> := @b then I might indeed expect %h<a> to flatten 17:12
sorear TimToady: I see %foo<h> as being like $foo_h
TimToady sorear: well, I don't see a $ there
pmichaud if we have my @b = <a b c>; my %h; %h<a> = @b; say join ';', %h<a> 17:13
sorear pmichaud: the idea that hashes and especially arrays could contain flattening elements makes me uneasy
pmichaud would we expect %h<a> to flatten there?
sorear: yes, I have the same uneasiness, and especially for arrays 17:14
TimToady I'd expect that to flatten
pmichaud ouch.
example coming up. 17:15
TimToady but it's the join that flattens it
pmichaud my @b = <a b c>; my @a = 0..3; @a[2] = @b; my @c = @a
does @c end up with 4 elements or 6? 17:16
17:19 mj41 joined
TimToady what you're really asking there is whether = flattens or keeps the () as one element 17:19
pmichaud well, if we assume it keeps the () as one element, then my @d = (1, 2, (3, 4), 5) becomes very different from what we have now, I think. 17:20
TimToady nodnod
pmichaud currently it flattens, but all of the elements of @a are scalar so that we end up with @c.elems == @a.elems when were done 17:21
TimToady perl6: my @a = 0..3; @a[1] := (1,2,3); say join ';', @a[1] 17:22
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
..pugs, rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«1;2;3␤»
TimToady perl6: my @a = 0..3; @a[1] := 1,2,3; say join ';', @a[1]
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«1␤»
..rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«1;2;3␤»
TimToady perl6: my @b = <a b c>; my @a = 0..3; @a[2] = @b; my @c = @a; say @c.perl 17:25
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«[0, 1, ["a", "b", "c"], 3].list␤»
..rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«Array.new(0, 1, ["a", "b", "c"], 3)␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«[0, 1, ["a", "b", "c"], 3]␤»
17:26 kaare_ joined
TimToady perl6: my @b = <a b c>; my @a = 0..3; @a[2] = @b; my @c = @a; say join ';', @c[2] 17:27
p6eval pugs, rakudo 69920d, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
TimToady perl6: my @b = <a b c>; my @a = 0..3; @a[2] = @b; my @c = @a; say join ';', @c[2][]
p6eval rakudo 69920d, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«a;b;c␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
TimToady perl6: my @b = <a b c>; my @a = 0..3; @a[2] = @b; my @c = @a; say join ';', @c[2][*]
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«a;b;c␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«a␤»
..niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot use value like Whatever as a number␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 256 (Any.Numeric @ 5) ␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /tmp/VlODS_wCRF line 1 (mainline @ 2…
TimToady perl6: my @b = <a b c>; my @a = 0..3; @a[2] := @b; my @c = @a; say join ';', @c[2] 17:30
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«a;b;c␤»
..rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«a␤»
..niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
TimToady perl6: my @a = 0..3; @a[2] := <a b c>; my @c = @a; say join ';', @c[2]
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«a;b;c␤»
..rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«a␤»
..niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
17:31 Vlavv_ joined 17:32 tarch left, fglock joined
TimToady perl6: my @a = 0..3; @a[2] := <a b c>; my @c = @a; say join ';', @a[2] 17:32
p6eval pugs, rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«a;b;c␤»
..niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ @c is declared but not used at /tmp/gJvZiXESPE line 1:␤------> my @a = 0..3; @a[2] := <a b c>; my ⏏@c = @a; say join ';', @a[2]␤␤a b c␤»
17:33 Chillance joined, pernatiy joined
TimToady doesn't see a great deal of agreement in the "current model" 17:33
17:34 Vlavv` left
TimToady I think I'm willing to flatten/itemize = as it currently does, but := probably needs to stay non-committal 17:35
17:36 mucker joined
TimToady and postfix:<[]> is less of a problem to me than .list 17:36
perl6: my @a = 0..3; @a[2] := <a b c>; say @a[2].WHAT 17:38
p6eval rakudo 69920d, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«Array␤»
masak sorear: I'm on Gmail; why? 17:41
the web application, that is.
pmichaud by "not a great deal of agreement" -- do you mean among implementations or self-consistency within nom?
TimToady among impls 17:45
masak sorear: re working --yaml output having lots of properties in common with working quasi { }: I love how everyone is thinking of macros these days. ;) 17:46
though I don't see the connection.
maybe you're after the AST objects, and feel that quasis fit in there somewhere.
pmichaud well, iirc pugs predates Parcel handling, so I'm not surprised it isn't in agreement
pugs: say (1,2,3).WHAT 17:47
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«Array␤»
17:47 havenn left
geekosaur that's my recollection too, the whole "oh, list wont work for that" happened later than Pugs 17:47
pmichaud niecza's differences seem to be in handling of := in array elements. And I suspect much of that is because sorear++ is (smartly) waiting for the relevant specs to solidify a bit :) 17:48
anyway, if we can leave things as they are-ish, I'm happy. :) 17:49
TimToady here's the proximate cause of my frustration, trying to get gist.github.com/2173143 to work without .list, or at least without hte first .list
(btw, this only works in niecza right now at all; rakudo seems to not like the any() === Burning, so the fire never propgates) 17:50
pmichaud how about @!neighbors[$i][$j].any ?
it kind of puts the action on the wrong side, yes. 17:51
masak pmichaud++ # for prodding TimToady about list semantics
TimToady that doesn't work either
masak TimToady++ # for trying to get to the bottom of the pros and cons of the different models
pmichaud perl6: my @a; @a[2] = <a b c>; say @a[2].any.perl 17:52
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«(#<Array:0x7fbcbbd226d1>)␤»
..rakudo 69920d, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«any("a", "b", "c")␤»
pmichaud "doesn't work" as in "isn't working in niecza with .any" or as in "no, I don't want to do it that way"? 17:53
r: my @a = 'r', 2, 's'; my @b; @b[2] = @a; say @b.perl 17:54
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«Array.new(Any, Any, ["r", 2, "s"])␤»
TimToady it works in niecza with .any, but not rakudo
pmichaud r: my @a = 'r', 2, 's'; my @b; @b[2] = @a; say @b[2].any.perl
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«any("r", 2, "s")␤»
TimToady problem might be more to do with enums
pmichaud r: my @a = 'r', 2, 's'; my @b; @b[2] = @a; say @b[2].any === 2 17:55
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«any(False, True, False)␤»
masak TimToady: if you manage to golf it, I'll submit it.
pmichaud yeah, I'm guessing it's an enum issue more than a junction / array issue
masak r: enum A <b c d>; my @l = (b, b, c, d); say "OH HAI" if any(@l) === c 17:56
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak r: enum A <b c d>; say "OH HAI" if any(b, b, c, d) === c 17:57
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak worksforme
pmichaud r: enum CS <Empty Tree Burning>; my $a = [Empty, Empty, Tree]; say $a.any === Tree 17:58
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«any(False, False, True)␤»
pmichaud r: enum CS <Empty Tree Burning>; my $a = [Empty, Empty, Tree]; say $a.any === Burning 17:59
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«any(False, False, False)␤»
pmichaud r: enum CS <Empty Tree Burning>; my @a = [Empty, Empty, Tree]; say @a[0].any === Burning
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«any(False, False, False)␤»
pmichaud r: enum CS <Empty Tree Burning>; my @a = [Empty, Empty, Tree]; say @a[0].any === Tree
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«any(False, False, True)␤»
TimToady it's acting more like maybe it's not calculating the neighbors right, maybe
pmichaud r: enum CS <Empty Tree Burning>; my @a = [Empty, Empty, Tree]; say ? ( @a[0].any === Tree )
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:01 mucker left
TimToady ooh, a clue, every cell has 3 neighbors 18:01
pmichaud r: enum CS <Empty Tree Burning>; my @a = [123, [Empty, Empty, Tree]]; say ? ( @a[0][1].any === Tree ) 18:02
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«True␤»
pmichaud r: my @a = <a b c>; given @a { say .[1] } 18:05
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«b␤»
18:07 am0c joined
pmichaud fwiw, the line 18:09
has Cell-State @!grid;
looks wrongish to me
(probably not at all a source of the bug, but the elements of @!grid aren't directly Cell-States if I'm reading this correctly.) 18:10
18:10 am0c_ joined
pmichaud also, how about @!grid = @new at the end of method step, instead of the for loop? 18:12
or is it important to keep the same array containers? 18:13
pmichaud guesses the latter.
18:13 am0c left
pmichaud r: my $a = [2,1,0]; my @b = <x y z>; say @b[$a] # curious 18:15
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«z y x␤»
18:15 am0c__ joined
pmichaud feels like .list might not be necessary in method Str 18:15
since @!grid[$i] is already Positional, it gets treated like a slice
(I could be wrong/missing something there though) 18:16
masak pmichaud: agree on 'has Cell-State @!grid;' looking wrong. this is why I don't use array element typing yet, or in general any NYI-but-silent feature that might break my code. 18:17
pmichaud oh, I see @b[$a] returned a scalar result, though.
r: my $a = [2,1,0]; my @b = <x y z>; say @b[$a.list] # curious
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«z y x␤»
pmichaud r: my $a = [2,1,0]; my @b = <x y z>; say @b[$a.list].perl # curious
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«("z", "y", "x")␤»
pmichaud r: my $a = [2,1,0]; my @b = <x y z>; say @b[$a].perl # curious 18:18
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«("z", "y", "x")␤»
pmichaud oh, nm, it didn't return a scalar result. It got .gisted
18:18 am0c_ left
TimToady gist.github.com/2173143 now has a half golfed example; nieca makes 3 different neighbor lists of 8 Bools, while rakudo makes 3 identical lists 18:20
pmichaud I'm wondering if the nested if/for modifiers are confusing rakudo 18:21
...or if rakudo is even parsing that correctly :-)
the 'if' and 'for' apply to .... the take? 18:22
TimToady they're both inside the gather 18:23
take if for is the list comprehension
pmichaud I also wonder if this is a variant of the 'take' bug 18:24
pmichaud experiments
TimToady yes, inverting to an outer 'for' fixes it
18:24 buubot_backup left
TimToady maybe not scoping $_ right? 18:25
pmichaud putting { } around the take also fixes it
(including the if/for)
gist.github.com/2173487
TimToady changine it to a grep also fixes 18:26
*ng
pmichaud so yes, I suspect a parsing or other bug with the list comprehension
TimToady: okay, thanks for the help re: flattening -- I'll be able to rest easier now :) 18:29
TimToady and my quibble with niecza is that this requires a .list: my @a = 0..3; @a[2] := <a b c>; say any(@a[2].list) eq 'b' 18:32
18:32 mj41 left
TimToady (which shouldn't because of the :=) 18:32
perl6: my @a = 0..3; @a[2] := <a b c>; say so any(@a[2]) eq 'b' 18:33
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&so"␤ at /tmp/ixp4oNBGj7 line 1, column 37 - line 2, column 1␤»
..niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«False␤»
..rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady perl6: my @a = 0..3; @a[2] = <a b c>; say so any(@a[2]) eq 'b' 18:34
p6eval rakudo 69920d, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«False␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&so"␤ at /tmp/bqMaBypncK line 1, column 36 - line 2, column 1␤»
TimToady perl6: my @a = 0..3; @a[2] = <a b c>; say so any(@a[2][]) eq 'b'
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&so"␤ at /tmp/KWYAtvdGZJ line 1, column 36 - line 2, column 1␤»
..rakudo 69920d, niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady I think I can live with .[]
for the assigned case 18:35
masak I can sort of see why it's a pity that it's needed, though.
but I don't know the exact consequences of "fixing" it.
TimToady wants to have his cake and eat it to and also not be allergic to wheat
*too
18:35 am0c_ joined
pmichaud I think "fixing it" likely involves either a major re-think of many already settled cases, or else some hard-to-explainish special casing to get it to work 18:37
(at the spec level) 18:38
TimToady but assigning a list to a scalar does something much different in Perl 5 anyway, so maybe this falls into the category of making assignment do what a P5 programmer expects if they expected something that P5 doesn't in fact do :)
18:38 am0c joined
TimToady and as usual, use binding to do anything with purer semantics 18:38
pmichaud afk for a bit
TimToady was gonna write a p5 parser this morning, sigh 18:39
18:39 am0c__ left
TimToady I guess it's viv or PPI or MAD 18:39
doing it in viv is harder, but has more potential upside for us here 18:40
18:41 am0c_ left 18:44 am0c left, TPF|rafl is now known as rafl 18:45 TPF|pjcj is now known as pjcj 18:46 buubot_backup joined 18:48 thou joined
masak were you gonna write a p5 parser for something primarily not related to #perl6? 18:52
18:57 am0c joined
masak r: say q:to /EOT/ 18:58
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Colons may not be used to delimit quoting constructs at line 1, near ":to /EOT/"␤»
masak r: say q :to /EOT/
p6eval rakudo 69920d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Colons may not be used to delimit quoting constructs at line 1, near ":to /EOT/"␤»
masak n: say q :to /EOT/
p6eval niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Here document used before body defined␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1362 (die @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Op.pm6 line 320 (HereStub.zyg @ 4) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Op.pm6 line 23 (Op.ctxzyg @ 3) ␤ a…
masak sorear: what does that error message mean?
TimToady yes, for $job 18:59
masak anyone against the idea of adding "here documents" as a feature in perl6.org/compilers/features ?
I think it belongs there.
pmichaud isn't it there already? I thought I saw it.
masak TimToady: I was looking at STD5.pm6 the other day.
pmichaud anyway, +1 to adding heredocs to features if not already present 19:00
masak TimToady: it looks like a pared-down version of STD.pm6, with a little too much Perl 6 think still in it. did it ever parse any Perl 5?
pmichaud: I tried greeping for various things -- and I really don't see it in there. 19:01
pmichaud maybe add autoviv there too
masak aye.
pmichaud masak: I think I was thinking of something else
oh, autoviv is there 19:02
moritz++ # autoviv on features page
TimToady only the P5Regex part actually worked 19:07
masak ah. 19:08
TimToady and doubtless the rest has bitrotted wrt P6's STD
masak TimToady: there's some sort of cosmic irony in you getting to write a second Perl 5 parser ;) 19:09
TimToady don't I know it 19:10
pmichaud I'm not sure "irony" is the correct word. :-P 19:16
perhaps "justice" :-P
masak it's just made more funny because STD.pm6 came in between. 19:18
TimToady maybe I should just copy over the yacc grammar and see if it parses :)
PerlJam "second perl 5 parser"? isn't more like 3rd? 19:19
pmichaud those who learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them 19:20
ummmm, hmm.
TimToady 3rd perl parse, but not 3rd p5 parser
19:23 PacoAir left
dalek kudo/nom: a4c78fb | pmichaud++ | src/core/Parcel.pm:
Use "$()" in Parcel.perl to show when a Parcel is in a scalar container.

I'm not sure that the spec ultimately end up with something like
  "scalar Parcels" (cf. "scalar arrays"), but since they exist in Rakudo
for the time being we should at least make their presence clearer to the people who encounter them.		 19:23
19:23 PacoAir joined 19:28 alester joined
dalek atures: 98cf39f | (Carl Mäsak)++ | features.json:
[features.json] added heredocs
 19:32
PerlJam Coding in C is *so* tedious these days.
TimToady well, there's a start: Can't locate object method "parse" via package "STD_P5" at ./viv5 line 4206. 19:33
alester I still like it!
PerlJam alester: yeah, but for some things where I can think of a solution in 2 seconds but it needs some of the higher level construct from a HLL, there's just so much typing involved. 19:34
alester Oh, I know.
pmichaud hands PerlJam a COBOL compiler.
19:35 havenn joined
TimToady You have a problem in C, so you say, "I know! I'll use macros!"...and so on 19:36
You have a problem, so you say "I know! 19:38
now you don't know that you have two problems 19:39
colomon has a problem
TimToady look in the back of the book 19:40
19:45 havenn left 19:48 leprevost left 19:55 GlitchMr joined 20:01 alester left
awwaiid at the index? OH IC! You are so wise sir. I will build an index of my problems. 20:07
20:07 thou left 20:08 havenn joined
masak "...now you have an indexed problem." 20:08
20:13 thou joined 20:14 lichtkind joined
masak C has an austere kind of elegance about it. but I'd better be needing all that runtime speed it provides, 'cus I'm not about to express my ideas in it just for the fun of it. 20:18
20:19 thou left, MayDaniel left 20:23 thou joined
Tene masak: I express ideas in C mostly for the fun of it. The majority of my C coding is recreational. 20:25
jnthn Afternoon 20:30
masak jnthn! \o/
jnthn masak! \o/ 20:31
masak Tene: mine too, in the sense of "hobby coding". not in the sense of "I think this is the most expressive medium for this idea".
jnthn masak: Curious release naming reason. :P
20:35 M_o_C joined
masak jnthn: have you met any Perl people down there? :) 20:36
jnthn No. :)
I didn't really make any effort to, mind. 20:37
uh-oh...Kiev Perl workshop dates are out
<- temptation
dalek atures: 42afc5c | (Carl Mäsak)++ | features.json:
[features.json] unbroke the json

Sorry 'bout that. :/		 20:38
jnthn
.oO( Just Some Old Notation )
 20:39
20:39 fgomez joined 20:40 fgomez left 20:41 fgomez joined
jnthn pmichaud: How goes the refactors? 20:41
colomon just learned that the openNURBS 5.0 libraries have a .NET version.... 20:44
pmichaud jnthn: since we were able to resolve the most recent flattening issues, refactoring Scalar is much less urgent and less of a potential blocker
(see backlog for discussion, starting at...
irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-03-23#i_5341181 ) 20:45
jnthn Will do, thanks
pmichaud I was able to clean up .count and .arity a bit, especially on signatures with slurpies 20:46
and/or captures
jnthn Just saw those patches. Nice.
pmichaud r: my $p = (1,2,3); say $p.perl;
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«$(1, 2, 3)␤»
masak \o/ 20:47
pmichaud r: my %h; %h<a> = 1,2,3; say %h.perl;
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«("a" => $(1, 2, 3)).hash␤»
pmichaud r: my @a = 0..3; @a[1] = 1,2,3; say @a.perl;
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Array.new(0, $(1, 2, 3), 2, 3)␤»
masak r: my %h; %h<a> = 1, 2, 3; .say for %h<a> 20:50
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
masak r: my %h; %h<a> = 1, 2, 3; .say for %h<a>[]
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
masak r: my %h; %h<a> = 1, 2, 3; .say for @ %h<a>
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name␤at /tmp/gUAL1NqNnu:1␤»
masak r: my %h; %h<a> = 1, 2, 3; .say for @(%h<a>)
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
masak r: my %h; %h<a> = 1, 2, 3; .say for @%h<a>
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Invalid hard reference syntax at line 1, near "%h<a>"␤»
masak r: my %h; %h<a> = 1, 2, 3; .say for %h<a>.list 20:51
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
pmichaud @%var doesn't exist :)
masak nodnod
pmichaud although @$var does
(in the spec, not necessarily in nom)
masak r: my $var = [1, 2, 3]; .say for @$var 20:52
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
pmichaud r: my $var = [1,2,3]; say for $var;
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«␤»
masak dot.
pmichaud r: my $var = [1,2,3]; .say for $var;
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
pmichaud \o/
rakudo++
masak it's 2012. rakudo is nice to use. :) 20:53
pmichaud so..... what happened to improve startup time so much?
masak bs.
pmichaud (I missed the discussions/commits/changes that made that possible)
masak in other news, jnthn++ rocks. 20:54
Tene pmichaud: jnthn's bounded serialization work
masak (what I said.) :)
Tene although it made startup time about 2x longer for me 20:55
I should check if that's still the case.
gfldex pmichaud: 6guts.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/boun...er-errors/
lichtkind pmichaud: glad to see you back 20:57
20:57 GlitchMr left
pmichaud on the one test that I ran, start time was... good enough that I wondered if I had accidentally run p5 by mistake :) 20:58
lichtkind: glad to be back, at least for a bit.
jnthn pmichaud: Essentially, we serialize meta-objects when pre-compiling
pmichaud jnthn: I figured it would be something like that. fantastic.
jnthn pmichaud: And just deserialize them now at startup rather than doing all the work to recreate them.
pmichaud: It also means World.pm got a bunch shorter and less messy :) 20:59
And if you compute a constant and pre-compile, then it's not recomputed again.
For an evil use for this, see example in jnthn.net/papers/2012-gpw-meta-programming.pdf
pmichaud <x> in a regex can call a predeclared regex? 21:00
(lexical)?
jnthn yes
pmichaud there were a number of design issues with that, I thought.
especially when being used in a grammar 21:01
masak do tell.
jnthn pmichaud: It's a compile time decision, in case you were wondering.
pmichaud: The predeclaration requirement will catch people out though, I fear...
It means you can't write mutual recursion. Well, unless you stub. :) 21:02
But maybe we should be pushing people to grammars for that...
Or maybe we need a totally different design.
masak r: say "foo" /<x>/; my regex x { foo };
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/r_6yzUyfr9:1␤»
pmichaud so, if at compile time there's a &x in scope, the regex always uses that even if a subgrammar defines a 'x' regex? 21:03
masak r: say "foo" ~~ /<x>/; my regex x { foo };
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Method 'x' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'␤ in regex <anon> at /tmp/YNc4hRZeAp:1␤ in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/CORE.setting:8300␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/YNc4hRZeAp:1␤␤»
masak r: my regex x { foo }; say "foo" ~~ /<x>/;
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«=> <foo>␤ x => <foo>␤␤»
jnthn That isn't predeclared.
That latter one is.
masak right. I was testing what you were saying.
jnthn pmichaud: Yes. Note that an &x in scope has to be a regex. A sub x will not do it. 21:04
masak yeah, that's unintuitive.
r: sub x { say "OH NOES" }; say "foo" ~~ /<x>/;
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Method 'x' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'␤ in regex <anon> at /tmp/O0lUpTPLWK:1␤ in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/CORE.setting:8300␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/O0lUpTPLWK:1␤␤»
jnthn masak: Welcome to one pass parsing.
pmichaud r: my regex x { foo }; grammar ABC { rule TOP { <x> }; rule x { bar }; }; say ABC.parse('foo').perl
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Match.new(orig => "foo", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new("x", Match.new(orig => "foo", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), ))␤»
masak jnthn: subs manage this.
jnthn masak: A sub call is unambiguous.
You're comparing apples and oranges. 21:05
pmichaud I'm worried about the example I just pasted.
masak ah, because no method-call fallback.
pmichaud It prefered the outer lexical regex to the one defined in the grammar.
jnthn pmichaud: It bothers me too.
masak I'm starting to feel it's a syntactical muddling of two things.
pmichaud it is
we had a huge discussion about this around a year or so ago
masak well, I'm starting to feel I don't like it.
jnthn pmichaud: Frankly, I'd be happy to make people write <&x> always if they must write regexes outside of grammars. 21:06
pmichaud and that's why nom wasn't supporting lexical regexes... because there's a huge conflict present
masak jnthn: +1
21:06 skids left
pmichaud what about.... 21:06
masak jnthn: always &x if you mean a lexical regex.
jnthn pmichaud: It was one of those cases where the 15 minutes to implement it seemed to be the most likely way to make people realize it was nasty and get a clarification. ;-)
pmichaud r: grammar ABC { method x { foo }; method TOP { <x> } }; grammar DEF is ABC { method x { bar } }; say DEF.parse('foo').perl 21:07
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&foo' called (line 1)␤Undefined routine '&bar' called (line 1)␤»
jnthn At which point all the tests that rely on it can also be declared wrong and fixed. :)
pmichaud r: grammar ABC { rule x { foo }; rule TOP { <x> } }; grammar DEF is ABC { rule x { bar } }; say DEF.parse('foo').perl
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Match.new(orig => "foo", from => 0, to => -3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new())␤»
pmichaud r: grammar ABC { rule x { foo }; rule TOP { <x> } }; grammar DEF is ABC { rule x { bar } }; say DEF.parse('bar').perl
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Match.new(orig => "bar", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new("x", Match.new(orig => "bar", from => 0, to => 3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), ))␤»
pmichaud okay, that one is okay. but 21:08
r: grammar ABC { my rule x { foo }; rule TOP { <x> } }; grammar DEF is ABC { rule x { bar } }; say DEF.parse('bar').perl
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Match.new(orig => "bar", from => 0, to => -3, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new())␤»
jnthn Yeah, no lexical one there
pmichaud that one isn't.
jnthn You explicitly have to write "my" to install it as lexical
Right, that one sure ain't, and it's awkward.
pmichaud anyway, we chose not to enable lexical regexes specifically so that people wouldn't rely on code that we know will someday break.
I'll see if I can find the #perl6 thread 21:09
jnthn Can we choose to get a spec clarification while ripping them out? :) Or can I be free to remove reliance on this out of any spectests too? :)
pmichaud the spec clarification is incredibly non-trivial 21:10
jnthn Ugh.
pmichaud last I heard, TimToady+ was speculating that anonymous regexes were in fact part of another inheritance component
sort of like braids
jnthn Only deserves one + for that ;)
mmmm...braids...
pmichaud TimToady++
21:11 thou left
pmichaud (gotta fix the +'s) 21:11
jnthn :)
21:12 orafu left 21:13 orafu joined
masak pmichaud: oh btw, the .gist output of Match nowadays is often informative enough for .perl to be omittable: 21:15
r: grammar ABC { my rule x { foo }; rule TOP { <x> } }; grammar DEF is ABC { rule x { bar } }; say DEF.parse('bar')
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
pmichaud masak++
21:15 sudokode left
masak um, bad example :) 21:15
pmichaud no, that was good enough.
it shows the match failed, much better than the .perl output did :) 21:16
masak r: say "foo" ~~ /o*/
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«=> <>␤␤»
masak huh!?
masak submits rakudobug
pmichaud that matched at the beginning :-)
masak oh!
pmichaud IT'S NOT A BUG!!! :)
masak r: say "foo" ~~ /o+/
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«=> <oo>␤␤»
jnthn :D
masak unsubmits
stupid quantifiers... :P 21:17
fglock regex is hard :P
pmichaud we could unspec the quantifiers if you want :)
masak I could totally do that right now.
don't tempt me :P
"Perl 6 regexes no longer support quantifiers. They're too hard to learn."
jnthn wonders if masak's commits to the specs are a negative number :) 21:18
Tene "Perl 6 recommends going shopping as an alternative to learning quantifiers."
masak I counted something like 11 removals of stuff from the spec in 2011.
that I did, that is.
pmichaud anyway, I'll find the current state of lexical regexes. 21:21
I do remember it as being a huge "here be dragons" area
jnthn I'm quite sure it is. :)
Seemed I made it breathe a little fire. :)
Tene yep, I still have slower startup, around 0.7-0.8s rather than 0.4 like it was before the bs merge
jnthn Wow. 21:22
21:23 dorlamm joined
Tene It drops a bit if I unset PERL6LIB, or maybe that's just sampling variance. 21:23
Both parrot and rakudo were built from clean checkouts.
timotimo how would i manually override the ?? !! operator? 21:25
or rather, how do i define my own ternary operators?
pmichaud jnthn: github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...m.txt#L447 has part of it 21:26
jnthn pmichaud: oh...just regexes outside of grammars... 21:27
masak timotimo: infix:<?? !!>
pmichaud those would be lexical, though.
Tene jnthn: if you'd like to get access to my laptop to diagnose the issue, let me know. 21:28
pmichaud the point being that <x> should make use of a regex defined in the grammar slang, not lexical
jnthn pmichaud: Aha.
pmichaud I'll still find the discussion -- now I have a date range :) 21:29
jnthn Tene: OK. I'm kinda hoping the release that just went out advertising faster startup will spring up somebody else whose like "LIES!!!" and then there's a couple of data points and it's easier to extract the commonality
Tene: At the moment I have on report of slower and many of faster. 21:30
masak 1. negative PR 2. ??? 3. profit!
jnthn *one 21:31
Tene: I dunno if you have a C-level profiler you could run on it. Then I could compare it to what I see in such a run.
Tene jnthn: I can run whatever you'd like me to run.
timotimo p6: sub infix:<blip bloop>($a, $b, $c) { say "a: $a"; say "b: $b"; say "c: $c"; }; 1 blip 2 bloop 3;
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/7ACm5BiEr7:1␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "blip"␤ expecting operator␤ at /tmp/1w4Avdcdb8 line 1, column 82␤»
..niecza v15-4-g1f35f89: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: No value for parameter '$c' in 'infix:<blip bloop>'␤ at /tmp/K2KhtV5Pl7 line 0 (infix:<blip bloop> @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/K2KhtV5Pl7 line 1 (mainline @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3838 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niec…
Tene If you can give me appropriate arguments to valgrind or whatever, I can run that. 21:32
jnthn Tene: Not right off, but I can likely figure something out.
Tene great
timotimo that didn't work so well
jnthn If it produces output that kcachegrind can read, then I have a box back home where I managed to get that running.
timotimo it does work with <?? !!>, though 21:33
21:33 Trashlord left, Trashlord joined
masak timotimo: maybe it's still the case that one can't define new operators. 21:33
at least there used to be a bug like that.
timotimo mhm 21:35
will i also be able to define a quarterny operator? like infix:<a b c>? 21:37
pmichaud gotta shuttle kids to practice -- bbl or bbt
masak timotimo: I suppose so. 21:38
pmichaud looks like 2010-07-20 was the bulk of the discussion on lexical regexes
masak so, about around the Rakudo Star release? 21:39
Tene jnthn: allalone.org/callgrind.out.11171
pmichaud yes
irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-07-20#i_2578599 # a good bit of the discussion
gotta run -- bbl
jnthn Tene: Thanks. 21:40
Tene jnthn: I've only used callgrind a couple of times ever; if that doesn't work for you, or you want me to run other benchmarks or whatever, please let me know. 21:42
jnthn Tene: Will do. Thanks. 21:43
21:43 fgomez left 21:44 fgomez joined, fgomez left, fgomez joined 21:57 fglock left, am0c_ joined
masak r: class A { has $.req = die 'You must supply the parameter :req to the .new method' }; say A.new 21:58
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«You must supply the parameter :req to the .new method␤ in method <anon> at /tmp/dG4xh7V9MM:1␤ in block <anon> at src/gen/CORE.setting:600␤ in method BUILDALL at src/gen/CORE.setting:578␤ in method bless at src/gen/CORE.setting:568␤ in method new at src/gen/COR…
masak \o/
tadzik++
tadzik hm> 21:59
?
looks like I accidentally Tene's karma :) 22:00
jnthn masak: Now write a module to add an "is required" trait :)
masak tadzik: no, that's from 2010 :)
tadzik hm
22:01 am0c left
masak tadzik: the irclog URL that pmichaud provided. 22:01
tadzik howdy, that was long ago
masak jnthn: should be entirely possible.
tadzik that was not my idea either :) 22:02
"tadzik | and bless myself, like in Perl 5"
oh joy :)
and I was asking for Moose-like BUILD back then 22:03
oh, I was supposed not to speak of that never again
masak :P 22:04
yah, 'cus you're wrong :P
tadzik right
TimToady only half wrong :) 22:05
after that we did discuss the possibility of setting lazy thunks beforehand 22:06
which would also not die prematurely, but would have the advantage that you could use the default in the BUILD
has $!foo = 42; submethod BUILD() { $!foo *= 2 } # 84 22:07
22:07 colomon_ joined, colomon left, colomon_ is now known as colomon
TimToady but = would just STORE without a FETCH and throw away the lazy value 22:07
tadzik that demoralizes me again :) 22:08
TimToady not sure what the performance ramifications would be though
probably not big, but it has to hang the thunk off the FETCH call somehow 22:09
it might also have surprising results by not running code at BUILD time either, but at first reference to the attr later 22:10
masak yeah. 22:11
TimToady has $!start = now; # would be at first $.start call, not at .new time
unless BUILD forced the call at the point it now calls the default thunks
masak feels like what we have now is simpler to explain and reason about. 22:12
TimToady and works with native structs that can't support lazy attrs
masak and that. 22:13
TimToady was just thinking about rotates on compact arrays of bits...
for rosettacode.org/wiki/Bitwise_operations#Perl_6
22:15 fgomez left
tadzik good night #perl6 22:16
lichtkind blogs.perl.org/users/lichtkind/2012...eport.html
masak 'branoc, tadziku. 22:17
lichtkind TimToady: did you consider actors (sorry if disturbs your circles)
good night
22:18 alester joined, fgomez joined
masak lichtkind: sure TimToady considered actors -- you don't get to have "scripts" and "programs" without first having actors. ;) 22:18
TimToady the guy who disturbed our circles was Kepler... 22:26
masak I thought he just bend them a little. 22:27
bent*
masak .oO( Kepler was an excentric )
TimToady no, that was Copernicus :) 22:28
masak dang! 22:29
TimToady then there's Newton, who confused parabolas with the ends of ellipses... 22:30
22:30 am0c_ left
TimToady because we all know that artillery shells go in parabolas until the reach orbit, and then their paths magically turn into ellipses instead 22:31
*they
masak TimToady: have you perchance read the Baroque Cycle? 22:32
22:32 tokuhiro_ joined
TimToady remind me not to sail across the Pacific 22:32
masak :P
22:33 Patterner left 22:34 Psyche^ joined, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 22:37 skids joined
sisar .pm , .pm6 , .pl - what is the difference among them ? is there a .pm5 ? 22:40
masak: hm, The Baroque Cycle looks interesting... any good ? 22:41
masak sisar: I've only read the first book. it's slow and long, but I liked the tone of it. the second and third are said to be better. 22:43
sisar ah, will add it to my oh-so-long list of to-read books :)
masak sisar: think of it as a weird kind of reverse SF. it's in the past, it's about things that sorta-kinda actually happened, but with a mix of characters that did and did not exist in actual history. 22:44
22:46 japhb_ joined
japhb_ I never made it past the first book in The Baroque Cycle. It was just too slow for me. 22:47
[Coke] sees pmichaud++ in backscroll: o/
japhb_ TimToady, is RosettaCode the primary place you're putting "Here's how to do this in Perl 6" examples these days? 22:48
TimToady I did read them all, in fact, eventually, but after getting stuck in the first book for a year :)
masak japhb_: I think I would've considered it too slow if not for MJD's judgement that this is the form of writing where Stephenson finally has room for all he wants to say.
TimToady fortunately, they're the sort of book you can pick up again, and there are enough reminders of what went before
I don't know of anyone else who can make economics that interesting 22:49
masak I was a bit confuzzled by the rather broad person gallery in the first book. not fatally so, but still.
yeah, the economics angle surprised me.
sisar masak: i would love to see a blog post titled 'What is a macro ?' with both a general discussion/definition and macros in the perl6 context :)
japhb_ masak, I can see that. But I think Cryptonomicon was about as slow as I could manage and still love it. Slower than that ... and I've got faster things to read. :-)
masak I expected it to be mostly Newton/science.
TimToady all Stephenson's books are about economics on one level or another
masak sisar: strangelyconsistent.org/blog/macros...hey-really 22:50
sisar huh, masak++
masak instant gratisfaction :P
TimToady as for the person gallery, you already know Newton, so you really only have to track Daniel, Eliza and Jack strongly
masak nod, but there were all these nobles... 22:51
TimToady well, and there's Liebnitz
22:51 alester left
masak Liebnitz is cool :) 22:51
he's doing mines *and* differential calculus.
TimToady mines is actually where I got stuck for a year :)
masak heh :)
sisar masak: "Forget the "abstract" part, it's just been put there to scare you into thinking this is tricky." <- love this line :) 22:53
(from your blog post)
masak well, in a very real sense "Syntax Tree" would've conveyed the concept just as well. 22:54
sisar exactly !
masak maybe people just love their TLAs.
sisar MIA - masak is awesome :) 22:55
masak blushes :)
japhb_ nudges TimToady re: his RosettaCode question
22:56 kaare_ left
sisar my previous question, re extensions... anyone ? 22:56
masak sisar: .pm and .pm6 -- no real difference, except that the former may be Perl 5 code. 22:57
sisar: .pm extension means "this is a module", .pl extension tends to mean "this is a script" 22:58
sisar: some people don't use the .pl extension so much. if you're on Unix, there's no real need to give your Perl script an extension.
22:58 havenn left
sisar yeah, but ain't a module a script... i mean both have the same perl code, it's not a differetn type of file format 22:59
japhb_ .pl tends to have a connotation of "This is a perl script, and I want it to run in an environment that pays attention to file extensions -- e.g. web servers (in CGI mode), Windows, etc."
23:00 sudokode joined
sisar anyways, thanks for the answer 23:00
every module begins with Module::Name ?
masak sisar: a module is just Perl code, yes. but if you do .pm you create the expectation that it'll be imported by other code.
sisar: that's the difference. such an expectation does not exist for .pl 23:01
sisar i meant "module Module::Name; "
[Coke] wonders how many days of backlog this is. yeesh.
masak sisar: every *module* begins with that, yes. every .pm file does not. 23:02
sisar: could equally well be a role or a class or a grammar.
or it could begin with some other declarational stuff. 23:03
sisar but if i see such a line at the beginning of a .pm file, what is it there for ? 23:04
japhb_ 'module' says among other things that it is a Perl 6 module, not a Perl 5 module (which typically begins with 'package Module::Name;' 23:05
jnthn -> dinner
masak sisar: it declares the contents of the file as being part of a particular namespace, and the namespace being a module. 23:06
sisar oh, ok. 23:07
any good guide for learning to write tests using TAP ? 23:08
(from basics) 23:09
masak three step guide: (1) 'plan <some number>;' (2) 'ok <some test>;' (3) there is no third step, that's it. 23:12
sisar masak, you do like 'three-step guides' don't you ? ;-) 23:14
masak (1) yes (2) yes (3) yes
japhb_ 1. yes 2. ??? 3. profit! 23:15
sisar 1. ask masak 2. ??? 3. profit! 23:16
masak now that is a meme that I wouldn't mind spreading. 23:17
maybe I should print that on t-shirts and hand out to people.
23:22 NamelessTee left, wooden left
sisar i found a good exercise, try to understand the Pod::To::HTML. Why good? Because you end up learning three languages, perl6, Pod, & HTML in the process ! 23:23
sorear masak: I was wondering what you were using for the (>) (>>) stuff
masak: not just "ASTs" but "ASTs that defer declarators" 23:24
sisar i thought he did that by hand... # >, >> stuff
s/by hand/manually
masak sorear: I'm doing that by hand. it's become a sort of Zen exercise at this point. 23:26
it's how I would like a decent email client to work, ideally.
sorear: what does deferring declarators have to do with --yaml ? 23:27
sorear hahah I love the use of 木 there
masak :)
sorear masak: The error is fundamentally about BEGIN { say q:to/bar/ } ... 23:28
masak: I guess it's triggering because of questionable folding
sisar masak, i agree. It looks much cleaner than the usual cruft 'john doe wrote on $date $time'
masak I've done that for years. 23:29
I tend to put the name that people put in their signatures. that makes it hard to automate.
sorear whee, present. 23:32
23:32 dorlamm left
masak it'd be cool if you could somehow overshoot backlogging and end up in the future. 23:34
masak .oO( I accidentally forelogged five minutes )
sorear <3 23:37
23:38 whiteknight joined
masak then you would watch in some sort of tingly horror as the IRC log unfolded *exactly* as you had seen it, and no matter what you did, there was no way to change it. 23:39
pmichaud ...where do you guys think I've been the past several months! I saw the future irclog and realized I shouldn't be in it. :) 23:42
but, the log is back to the point where I'm suppose to be writing again.
masak boggles at trying to imagine a seven-month forelogging 23:43
pmichaud "tingly horror", yes.
masak more like electric shocks. 23:44
23:45 sivoais_ joined 23:47 eiro_ joined
masak 'night, #perl6 23:53
see you in the forelog.
23:55 eiro left, geekosaur left, jevin left, TimToady left, sivoais left, Tene left, krakan left, ivan`` left
sorear nocht masak 23:55
23:59 wooden joined, wooden left, wooden joined

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!