»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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dalek kudo/nom: 33633d8 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Backtrace.pm:
Revert "do not use a nested class for Backtrace::Frame"

This reverts commit 138213ad4c11320b1213716afcfdc05a90141cbe. On my system it causes S02-literals/autoref.t and S02-literals/pairs.t to each run for over two minutes
  (consuming a fair bit of memory), and halts the rest of
the spectest process.		 00:22
kudo/nom: a3cb614 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Rat.pm:
Fix relational operators for (Int,Rat).
 00:33
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[Coke] pmichaud: So, I got pugs fudged, but didn't get the per-test comparison started yet. 01:17
... at least, I thought I did. I see it's still failing 1800 tests. WTF. 01:22
colomon [Coke]: are you seeing a zillion failures in Niecza? (At least, say, a couple dozen more than three or four days ago?)
Coleoid Hi, #perl6! 01:31
Can anyone now in-channel advise me on setting up a clean Windows 7 machine to do Rakudo builds?
colomon Off the top of my head, the only Rakudo guy who runs primarily on Windows is jnthn, and I suspect he's been asleep for a few hours now. 01:32
benabik I built it on Win7 using Strawberry Perl... I don't recall needing anything else, although it was a long time ago. 01:33
Coleoid Last time I tried to get it all working was a machine I had Strawberry, ActiveState, and built-from source Perls on, and I could never quite get Rakudo to build... :D 01:34
[Coke] colomon: +"niecza", 20590, 5, 731, 1465, 22791, 24288 01:35
Coleoid benabik, did you use GCC or Visual Studio, or some other thing?
benabik Coleoid: I'm pretty sure Strawberry installs GCC.
[Coke] Coleoid: I have MSVC++ express, strawberry perl, and command line git. 01:36
... actually, I am not sure if I'm compiling with strawberry or AS.
Coleoid grins.
[Coke] but my windows box is at work. Ping me tomorrow if you get no resolution. 01:37
Coleoid Starts to sound like almost anything should work.
[Coke] ISTR the MSVC++ express was key.
but it's the kind of thing I setup once, ti worked, then I never touched it again. ;)
colomon: so, only 5 failures.
colomon [Coke]: so, it's just my system that's hosed. Weird. 01:38
Errr, reassuring, I guess.
Coleoid Thanks, [Coke]! I'll hope for an outcome like yours. 01:40
[Coke] these pugs failures are weird. I was all green in my sandbox, but then the daily run failed 1800 tests? must be cron related.
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dalek ast: d9800ad | coke++ | S (3 files):
pugs fudge
 02:05
[Coke] so, running it with "env -i" in my normal checkout, I get almost no failures. hurm. 02:07
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diakopter Coleoid: I'm pretty sure mine is compiled with solely strawberry. (parrot, nqp, and rakudo). I just added strawberry\c\bin, strawberry\perl\bin, and strawberry\perl\site\bin to my path. it uses gcc and gmake 02:22
I have visual studio installed too but hadn't run vcvarsall (to add it to the path) when building those things. 02:27
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[Coke] I wonder if someone is killing pugs processes. :P 02:44
dalek c: 02b6d4e | lue++ | .gitignore:
Modify .gitignore to ignore emacs' *~ backup files.
 02:45
c: 60a108d | lue++ | lib/Instant.pod:
[Instant] Add Instant.pod

Just some basic information on Instants, what I could gather from S02 and S32::Temporal.
c: c0352f6 | lue++ | lib/Duration.pod:
[Duration] Add Duration.pod

Somewhat brief, again using information from S02 and S32::Temporal.
c: 02812fb | lue++ | lib/Instant.pod:
[Instant] Add link to Duration page

Now Instant contains a link to Duration as well as vice-versa.
c: 79ea374 | lue++ | TODO:
[TODO] Remove Instant and Duration from "missing" list.

They both may be a bit short, but certainly not missing anymore.
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[Coke] is still confused by the pugs failures in the daily run on feather. weird. 02:53
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pmichaud I've been wanting to figure out how to make a Windows build.... now seems like a good time :) 03:12
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dalek p: 2452100 | pmichaud++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
[qregex]: Force a fail if cursor starting pos > end of string.
 03:21
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dalek kudo/nom: 9388218 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Str.pm:
Refactor Str.match to be lazier and accept a few more options.
 03:44
kudo/nom: 0a9fb1e | pmichaud++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Bump NQP_REVISION to get latest NQP updates for new match code.
ast: 7bac3ca | pmichaud++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
Update a .match failure test.
 03:45
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dalek c: c9b8604 | moritz++ | lib/Duration.pod:
[Duration] grammar fix, at newline at EOF
 03:54
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lue remembers that final newlines are preferred in doc 04:23
moritz on UNIX systems in general 04:24
lue I forced emacs to not force a newline upon me on save (unless the mode forces it anyway), just so there isn't a "useless" blank line at the end :) /me attempts to find its reason 04:27
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dalek ast: dcd76b9 | pmichaud++ | S05-substitution/subst.t:
Unfudge .subst tests using :x(*).
 04:30
kudo/nom: 9315e50 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Str.pm:
Restore :x(*) handling suggested by spectests.
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sergot hi o/ 06:12
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dalek kudo/nom: d8e7b66 | moritz++ | src/core/Backtrace.pm:
do not use a nested class for Backtrace::Frame (take 2)

mostly so that .WHAT gives the full name
Now without infinite recursion in the backtrace printer
  (contains a workaround for RT #114034)		 07:11
moritz pmichaud: sorry about the first version of that commit. I had a fix for it locally, and then forgot to commit it, and pushed the unfixed commit :/
moritz has decided he has had enough of typing rm -rf ~/.perl6/lib ~/.panda ; cd ~/p6/panda; ./bootstrap.sh 07:23
now I have small script named 'repanda' that does that, as well as installing the modules I need more often
tadzik yay! 07:25
Task::BeLike::Moritz :)
or we could just have a Star meta-module that depends on everything that goes into R*
moritz: would you mind pushing repanda? 07:26
moritz tadzik: it has hardcoded paths, so not very useful
tadzik I see 07:27
moritz gist.github.com/3074789
tadzik: if we can tell panda to bootstrap into a specific directory (and without downloading), we can use it for star installs 07:29
tadzik did you try DESTDIR with bootstrap? 07:30
moritz no; didn't know about that
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tadzik maybe it'd be possible to do something along DESTDIR=/opt/whatever perl6 bin/panda install ./File__Tools ./JSON__Tiny and so on 07:31
I'll take a closer look when I get back home
kresike good morning all you happy perl6 people
tadzik hey hey kresike-y 07:32
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kresike hello tadzik 07:35
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hoelzro I think I found another bug in Rakudo 08:19
when I create an IO::Socket::INET with :listen and no :localport, I expect $sock.local_address to return the ephemeral port assigned to the socket 08:20
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hoelzro however, it always seems to return 127.0.0.1:0 08:21
moritz have you tried .localport? 08:22
hoelzro moritz: Int() 08:23
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moritz hm 08:25
hoelzro it seems that Parrot (as of 4.5) doesn't provide an interface to getsockname 08:26
how often does the Parrot team make a release?
moritz monthly 08:27
hoelzro so if I submitted a pull request to add the required functionality, it could make it into Rakudo Star 2012.07?
moritz yes
I'd also appreciate a general sanity check of the socket API and implementation in rakudo 08:28
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hoelzro you mean like some basic tests? 08:29
moritz because I've re-done much of it in the transition to nom, but I've never used sockets before
we have some basic tests
which are rather clumsy, because we have neither threads nor non-blocking IO
so we need to spawn a separate process etc.
hoelzro I see 08:30
diakopter moritz: aren't threads coming soon?
moritz diakopter: yes. And they have been for half a year :-) 08:31
hoelzro christmas, right? =P
moritz well, parrot's threads branch was mostly "done" by end of last year 08:32
... on linux
and since then has been slowly ported to windows too
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moritz fun task for anyone wanting to help rakudo: change all mentions of the u4x documentation project to point to doc.perl6.org or perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2012-doc....writeback instead 09:02
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jnthn morning! :) 09:28
moritz \o jnthn
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arnsholt Hee hee hee. Knowing about LD_PRELOAD was actually useful today =D 09:48
moritz arnsholt: what evil hack did you do? 09:55
monkey-patch some broken routine?
arnsholt I wrote some bogus syscalls so that the Spotify for Linux client looks for its files in my ~ instead of in /usr/share/spotify 09:57
(I don't have root on my work desktop, so I had to install it to my homedir)
It's a pretty evil hack, but the upside is of course that it works =D 09:58
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arnsholt jnthn: In re: repr_get_attr_int not knowing about sizes, the problem is that we want to avoid making an introspection call to get the type and stuff every time we go through the op, no? 10:16
jnthn arnsholt: Right. I suspect we need some kind of REPR API change here. 10:19
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arnsholt Makes sense, yeah 10:23
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arnsholt Adding something like attribute_type to REPROps_Attribute perhaps? 10:26
CStruct at least has a list of member types, so in that case it'd be pretty simple 10:27
jnthn Well, but that probably boils down to a kind of introspection too.
arnsholt Troo
Looking at repr_at_pos_int it looks like that's what happens in that case 10:29
Of course arrays only have one type inside
jnthn Yeah; I'm not too comfortable with the way repr_at_pos_int does its thing either. 10:32
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arnsholt Hmm. In that case, I suppose other options are changing the return value of at_pos_ref from INTVAL* to INTVAL, or adding an output parameter that writes back either the appropriate box_func or the number of bits in the type 10:52
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jnthn The latter is along the right lines, but endianness will make that sutble. 11:00
*subtle
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arnsholt Gah. Didn't think about that 11:01
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masak g'day, #perl6 11:14
masak is on a very slow connection today, presumably because some parts of Sweden are under water
hoelzro is there a way to open a class and replace an existing method? 11:15
tadzik augment may be what you are looking for 11:16
JimmyZ ^add_method 11:19
hoelzro well, I can open the class with augment
but adding the method fails
augment class IO::Socket::INET { method localport { ... } }
masak disappears again 11:22
JimmyZ r: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class IO::Socket::INET { method localport { ... } }
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤You tried to augment class IO::Socket::INET, but it does not exist␤at /tmp/rzKSYUrBgF:1␤»
JimmyZ well, may be a bug
r: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Any { method localport { ... } }
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: ( no output )
hoelzro I'm using MONKEY_TYPING 11:23
Package 'IO::Socket::INET' already has a method 'localport' (did you mean to declare a multi-method?)
that's what I get
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JimmyZ r: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class IO::Socket { method localport { ... } } 11:26
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤You tried to augment class IO::Socket, but it does not exist␤at /tmp/DMn7pgwf48:1␤»
JimmyZ r: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class IO { method localport { ... } }
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: ( no output )
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hoelzro IO shouldn't have a localport method 11:28
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moritz note that everything IO-related is bound to break on p6eval 11:31
because it hides the "real" IO class, and replaces it with a mostly empty class 11:32
r: say IO.^methods(:local)
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«␤»
moritz r: say OUTER::IO.^methods(:local) 11:33
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«eager elems end classify uniq infinite flat hash list lol pick roll reverse sort values keys kv pairs Array grep first join map min max minmax push tree unshift postcircumfix:<[ ]> at_pos all any one none postcircumfix:<{ }> at_key reduce FLATTENABLE_LIST FLATTENAB…
tadzik r: class A { method b { "be" } }; use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class A { multi method b { "ce" } }; A.new.b.say 11:36
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot have a multi candidate for 'b' when an only method is also in the package 'A'␤»
moritz I think replacing methods only works via mixins 11:37
tadzik and then it's per-object, not per-class, right? 11:42
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moritz you can do something like 11:50
my $old-io = IO;
my IO := $old-io but role { ... }
maybe you can, dunno
or maybe my constant IO = ...;
afk
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 12:01
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pmichaud DBI connect('database=moritz5;host=localhost','moritz',...) failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2) at lib/IrcLog.pm line 30 12:02
:-(
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pmichaud moritz: ^^ 12:05
jnthn pmichaud: Curious, what URL are you trying to get at? 12:09
It seems to work for me...
pmichaud okay, it just worked for me now also. 12:13
the url I use(d) is irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today
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mnuklop perl6: say "test" for 1 .. 10; 13:05
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤»
mnuklop perl6: say [+] for 1 .. 10; 13:06
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤»
mnuklop perl6: $qq = [+] for 1 .. 10; say $qq 13:07
p6eval niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Variable $qq is not predeclared at /tmp/Qt032rayWt line 1:␤------> <BOL>⏏$qq = [+] for 1 .. 10; say $qq␤␤Variable $qq is not predeclared at /tmp/Qt032rayWt line 1:␤------> $qq = [+] for 1 .. 10; say…
..rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $qq is not declared␤at /tmp/uDNJlAMN_V:1␤»
mnuklop perl6: my $qq = [+] for 1 .. 10; say $qq
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«0␤»
colomon what are you trying to do? 13:08
[Coke] r: say [+] 1..10
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«55␤»
mnuklop perl6: 2.78 ~~ 10 +- 3 ?? 't' !! 'f' 13:11
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: ( no output )
mnuklop perl6: say (2.78 ~~ 10 +- 3 ?? 't' !! 'f' )
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«f␤»
colomon rn: say (10 +- 3).perl 13:17
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«7␤»
colomon ah
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JimmyZ r: sub infix:<+->( $a, $b ) { $a + $b }; say (10 +- 3).perl 13:22
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«13␤»
JimmyZ rn: sub infix:<+->( $a, $b ) { $a +- $b }; say (10 +- 3).perl
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 13:24
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JimmyZ bug? 13:30
tadzik hehe 13:31
PEBKAC, I think :)
what did you expect?
rn: sub foo { foo }; foo 13:32
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
tadzik I think that's quite a logical behaviour
JimmyZ I don't know, may be error info 13:33
pmichaud Locally I get 13:35
> sub infix:<+->($a, $b) { $a +- $b }; say (10 +- 3).perl
maximum recursion depth exceeded
...so, it gives error info :) 13:36
afk
JimmyZ :) 13:37
arnsholt jnthn: Actually, if get_attr returns a pointer to the correct memory location and the correct number of bits, wouldn't "*(correctly_sized_type *) ptr" work regardless of big- or little-endian? 13:38
jnthn arnsholt: That could work but I'm worried about concurrency. 13:40
arnsholt: I think it has to be out-parameter style.
arnsholt Yeah, that's the only way I can see it working
Return value is a pointer, and adding and "INTVAL *bits" arg that gets set appropriately 13:41
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kresike bye all 15:14
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sorear good * #perl6 17:41
shachaf Good ★
colomon \o 17:43
moritz o/ 17:45
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dalek c: 6b6713f | moritz++ | / (2 files):
document Backtrace
 18:22
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[Coke] .u ★ 18:39
phenny U+2605 BLACK STAR (★)
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pmichaud is realizing that he likes Github's issue system more than RT. 18:42
jnthn huh, the star shows up white on my screen :P 18:47
moritz here too
jnthn pmichaud: I'm not sure a migration would be a particular win. But I have been fairly happy with Github issues for various things. 18:48
diakopter sees a box :<
jnthn: what font?
jnthn Get a better font! :P
pmichaud jnthn: yeah, I'm not fond of a migration.
jnthn Courier New, of all things :)
pmichaud: phew :)
pmichaud I just know that I keep running into icky things when using RT.
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pmichaud like, it doesn't display unicode properly. 18:48
diakopter hm, with Courier New it's still a box 18:49
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pmichaud starts refactoring the List/Parcel class again, expects huge numbers of test failures 18:49
ooooh, and a segfault! 18:50
moritz that's what branches are for :-)
pmichaud yes, I'm in a branch for this one.
jnthn 文字化ã‘
pmichaud I keep trying things and then doing "git checkout ." to restore back, though :)
jnthn :)
jnthn wonders where the segfault came from 18:51
dalek c: 46abb31 | moritz++ | lib/Instant.pod:
[Instant] mention package type in TITLE
 18:52
sorear hello jnthn :)
moritz seems our pod parser doesn't like files that don't end in a newline 18:53
I have big sympathy for that
jnthn hi, sorear 18:54
Grrr. So the next thing QAST needs is...figuring out what replaces the exception stuff.
moritz I guess that one's going to be pretty vm specific, no? 18:55
jnthn moritz: I'd like to try and get something that isn't...
pmichaud I'd hope it wouldn't be too vm-specific at the QAST level, at least externally. 18:56
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moritz r: say try { die 'foo' } 18:57
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«foo␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/1xQfXmdO6L:1␤␤»
moritz that one is supposed to return Nil, not the exception
speaking of exception stuff :-)
jnthn pmichaud: Right.
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sorear o/ moukeddar 18:59
moukeddar \o/ guys, how are you doing ?
diakopter at least some of us are great! 19:00
moukeddar sounds good :)
jnthn just eated a bunch of blueberries, which was pretty great. 19:01
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moukeddar they're expensive a believe jnthn 19:01
moritz jnthn: now Ronja is jealous 19:02
:-)
jnthn Ooops :)
moukeddar: So's everything else in Sweden :P
moukeddar i stumbled upon an article about fractals, that's crazy what a simple equation can make 19:03
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moukeddar anyone tried fractals before? 19:06
moritz yes
quite tasty :-)
pmichaud mine had too much powered sugar on them. :-/
*powdered
moritz moukeddar: I'm especially fond of the statistical method for creating a sirpinski triangle
you just start with the three corners of a triangle, and a random point in the plane 19:07
benabik remembers programming that on his TI-82.
sorear en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_game ? 19:08
moritz and then you randomly pick one of the corners, and place a new point halfway between that corner and the old point
iterate starting from the new point
sorear: yes
moukeddar first time to hear about this type, so far i read about mandelbrot set 19:09
arnsholt Is the Mandelbrot script still being hacked on? 19:11
moritz it serves as a benchmark, of sorts
arnsholt Cool. It's been a while since I heard anything about it, so I wasn't sur if it was still active 19:12
moukeddar it's quite expensive in term of computing 19:13
arnsholt Yup. That's why it's one of the benchmarks for numerical stuff 19:14
moukeddar guys, what data structure would you recommend to study? binary trees, stacks, queues etc.. ? 19:15
sorear ALL OF THEM 19:16
start with this: www.soi.city.ac.uk/~ross/papers/FingerTree.pdf
moukeddar ALL OF THEM? 19:20
shouting? reminds me of a scene in "Leon the professional"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcsirofJrlM , around 1:50 ;) 19:23
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moritz r: my %h; say %h.WHAT; my &c; say &c.WHAT 19:36
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«Hash()␤Any()␤»
moritz nr: my %h; say %h.WHAT; my &c; say &c.WHAT
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«Hash()␤Any()␤»
moritz why is the default Any, when it's type-constrained to Callable?
nr: my &c; &c = &c;
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '&c'; expected 'Callable' but got 'Any'␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/7miTJj0Js5:1␤␤»
..niecza v19-13-g442e075: ( no output )
moritz n: my &c; &c = 5; say &c 19:37
p6eval niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«5␤»
jnthn hah
moritz: Good quesiton.
*question
moritz jnthn: should it be a Callable type object?
sorear 'because apparently it's not'
jnthn moritz: I seem to recall some past discussion on this...
I can't remember anything of what was said though :( 19:38
I guess we can try changing it to Callable and seeing that happens :)
moritz: In Actions.pm there's a container_type_info 19:39
There's a branch for & sigil which has the line:
%info<default_value> := $*W.find_symbol(['Any']);
Which is easily changed. :) 19:40
moritz ok :-)
n: my Callable $c = 5 19:41
p6eval niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ $c is declared but not used at /tmp/60DLyyFodz line 1:␤------> my Callable ⏏$c = 5␤␤Unhandled exception: Nominal type check failed for scalar store; got Int, needed Callable or subtype␤ at /tmp/60DLyyFodz line …
19:41 moukeddar left
dalek p/toqast: ffcadc6 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Implement contextual scope.
 19:43
p/toqast: 2b6d5b7 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/Actions.nqp:
Teach P6Regex's buildsub about QAST.
kudo/toqast: 3595580 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/World.pm:
Fix END handling, to win back another test.
 19:45
19:47 birdwindupbird joined
moritz is it correct that my @a = 1, 2, 3; coerces the RHS? 19:48
sorear I would not call that coercion 19:49
It's a list assignment
more like my @a; for 1, 2, 3 { @a.push($_) }
moritz jnthn: "Method 'signature' not found for invocant of class 'Callable'" after stage past during compiling the setting (with s/Any/Callable/ in the & default) 19:50
jnthn Hmm. 19:51
moritz current instr.: 'nqp;Perl6;Metamodel;RolePunning;_block3122' pc 33660 (src/gen/perl6-metamodel.pir:14544) (src/gen/Metamodel.pm:1191) 19:52
19:52 thou_ left
moritz called from the optimizer 19:52
jnthn I wonder what pan the role
Oh!
Weird.
Can you push it to a branch? I can investigate it at some point.
moritz willdo
pmichaud r: my &c; say &c.of 19:54
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«No such method 'of' for invocant of type 'Any'␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/TbYJ3obfSR:1␤␤»
jnthn pmichaud: On PAST::Node we had a .unique(...) thingy
pmichaud: I didn't put it in QAST. Shall I?
masak 'ev'n, #perl6
jnthn (as in, any reason not to...)
dalek kudo/callable-default-value: b0912ac | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
change &c variables to default to a Callable type object

blows up in the optimizer while compiling the setting
pmichaud if you don't need it, don't put it :)
moritz \o masak
jnthn pmichaud: Well, I just hit a bit of code that wants it to be there :) 19:55
pmichaud it was strictly a convenience method for generating unique ids
if you need it, then put it :)
jnthn pmichaud: Well, we could put it elsewhere. ;)
pmichaud: But if it doesn't bother you having it on QAST::Node, it wfm :)
pmichaud the other place it can often reasonably go is QAST::Compiler
jnthn Yeah... 19:56
pmichaud (indeed, PAST has one on each, iirc)
jnthn That's not immediately to hand though.
So on QAST::Node is certainly convenient.
pmichaud so, just refactor "unique id generation" to wherever makes the most sense.
::Node is fine. :-)
jnthn k
pmichaud you can also create a special QAST::<mumble> type to handle it, if you wish.
20:01 benabik left, alester joined, spider-mario joined
jnthn pmichaud: We have lots of variables called $past :) 20:05
pmichaud: I'm pondering we may wish to rename 'em. 20:06
masak .oO( the past jokes are all in the... oh wait )
pmichaud I'm fine with them either way
jnthn pmichaud: Maybe just $ast :)
masak +1
parses faster, too :P
masak .oO( $t ) 20:07
jnthn So that when we do, rast, sast, tast, etc ;)
.oO( Eventually, wee loop around, and finish on $last )
pmichaud zast!
jnthn *we
masak .oO( Perl 7 uses BAST and if you're nice we'll tell you about all the versions that led up to it )
pmichaud wast would just be a waste
masak *groan* 20:08
pmichaud vast is too big
masak please stop!
:)
pmichaud yast is already taken, I bet :)
jnthn nast is just nasty
20:08 fridim_ joined
masak yast is a fungi. 20:08
jnthn fast would work :P
pmichaud I'm not sure about east.
masak *lol*
at last, it's time to stop. 20:09
pmichaud masak is the mast-er
masak I think we're way *past* mast-ery.
dalek p/toqast: 171f251 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Node.nqp:
Implement QAST::Node.unique.
masak .oO( meh, I can't be aast )
20:10 bluescreen10 left
masak orka! 20:10
geekosaur a-gast
masak phenny: sv en "Orka!"
phenny: sv en "Orka!"?
phenny masak: "Orka !" (sv to en, translate.google.com)
masak meh.
jnthn It couldn't be bothered to translate it.
masak :P
20:13 crab2313 left 20:15 samlt left
dalek kudo/toqast: 9c3235c | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Fix a mis-translation.
 20:15
kudo/toqast: 8903cfe | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/ (2 files):
Eliminate one more pirop usage.
c: 933934b | moritz++ | htmlify.pl:
[htmlify] release a bit of memory when we can
 20:17
c: 30231bc | moritz++ | lib/variables.pod:
[variables] expand scope

talk about variables in general, not just special variables. Adds a section about sigils, and explain the * twigil
20:19 benabik joined
pmichaud moritz: the section saying "Assignment to C<%> and C<@>-sigiled variables ..." is a bit misleading. In reality, it's assignment to $-variables that is special cased. 20:20
assignment to arrays and hashes is just normal list assignment 20:21
moritz well, "normal" depends on your perspective
item assignment is what users of most programming languages know
20:22 MayDaniel left
moritz but I'm open to suggestions on how to clarify it 20:22
maybe
"there are two types of assignment, item assignment and list assignment"
is list assignment specced to call .STORE? 20:23
pmichaud so far it's up to the implementation to decide how to handle it
but assignment to a hash replaces the hash entries with the values from the list on the rhs
sorear niecza calls a method named LISTSTORE 20:24
pmichaud and assignment to a array replaces the array elements with the values from the list on the rhs
moritz r: my @; say @a.WHICH; @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a.WHICH
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable @a is not declared␤at /tmp/7nOfK9Ge63:1␤»
sorear passing the right side as a single parcel argument
moritz r: my @a; say @a.WHICH; @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a.WHICH
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«Array|-1112061954␤Array|-1112061954␤»
sorear n: my @a; @a does role { method LISTSTORE(\rhs) { say rhs.perl }: }; @a = 1, 2, 3; 20:25
p6eval niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Illegal use of colon as invocant marker at /tmp/Ny1553xjrH line 1:␤------> method LISTSTORE(\rhs) { say rhs.perl }:⏏ }; @a = 1, 2, 3;␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/C…
sorear n: my @a; @a does role { method LISTSTORE(\rhs) { say rhs.perl }; }; @a = 1, 2, 3;
p6eval niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.␤ at Niecza.P6opaque.ChangeType (Niecza.STable to) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤ at Builtins.mixin (Niecza.P6any obj, Niecza.Variable role_list, Niecza.Variable init,…
20:25 Khisanth left
sorear n: my @a := (Array but role { method LISTSTORE(\rhs) { say rhs.perl }; }).new; @a = 1, 2, 3; 20:25
p6eval niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3)␤»
pmichaud rakudo uses .STORE by way of analogy to the Proxy class method of the same name and purpose 20:26
but I don't believe any of it is "spec" 20:27
(the exact mechanism may become 'spec' at some point... but it isn't yet.)
moritz ok, I now notice that I can't really explain the difference between item and list assignment
pmichaud item assignment occurs when the lhs is a scalar
moritz yes 20:28
but what really happens, taht's the question
list assignment leaves the semantics to the container, right?
pmichaud the scalar container is updated to refer to the object on the rhs
_also_
if the compiler sees that the lhs is a simple scalar, then the precedence of '=' becomes higher than comma
moritz I know, but that's a topic for 'operators', and I'm currently working on 'variables' :-) 20:29
pmichaud fair enough. It wouldn't surprise me if newcomers think of it as a variable issue, though.
moritz maybe a small note
pmichaud anyway, yes -- list assignment leaves the semantics to the thing being assigned to 20:30
moritz nr: my @a; my $which = @a.WHICH; @a = (1, 2, 3); say $which === @a.WHICH 20:31
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6, niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«True␤»
pmichaud there has been some speculation that "my @a;" should leave @a bound to an Array type object, which then vivifies into an Array on first use. 20:32
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sorear that speculation requires my @a to create a Scalar or something similar that autovivification can assign to. 20:33
r: my @a; say @a.defined
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«True␤»
pmichaud I suspect that Array.STORE() could dtrt without having to involve a scalar 20:34
masak re migrating from RT to github issues: don't you people dare. I can't go further with that thought without being obviously nuclearly blackmailing.
pmichaud masak: are you referring to existing tickets or to "ever" ?
moritz I'm firmly -1 on migriting too
*migrating
masak pmichaud: ever.
moritz (existing tickets)
jnthn
.oO( 'cus we really want two places to look! :) )
moritz and I don't want to migrate to something where I can't open tickets by email 20:35
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diakopter I went through all the tickets a few weeks ago to check the status on latest rakudo. Took me about 30 hours. 20:35
masak diakopter++
pmichaud objections noted
sorear
.oO( so THAT's why masak has submitted so few nieczabugs, it's not on RT)
pmichaud my comment earlier wasn't intended as a declaration of intent to switch, fwiw. 20:36
masak sorear: given that it's not, I've submitted quite a few.
pmichaud just an observation that github's interface is generally a lot nicer to work with than rt's
masak pmichaud: sorry to be so staunch about it. I don't think github's interface would be a win for my bug workflows.
pmichaud masak: no problem, I can understand that.
jnthn Isn't our RT installation a few versions old?
masak pmichaud: I like it in other settings. wouldn't like it with Rakudo. 20:37
jnthn: what, you're thinking of 4.0? :)
diakopter masak: my point was, by splitting up the work, it'd be only a few hours each
masak diakopter: it can certainly be map-reduced.
moritz masak: but bear in mind that while you submit many tickets, I think you often only spend only a small part of the ticket's lifetime working on it
jnthn masak: I'm thinking that if we had a newer RT then maybe the UI is nicer :) 20:38
moritz masak: so manybe your workflow shouldn't be the target for optimization
pmichaud masak: strictly out of curiosity, if there was an email interface for github issues, would that modify your stance at all?
dalek c: fa25cbb | moritz++ | lib/variables.pod:
[variables] try to clarify the difference between item and list assignment
masak pmichaud: no, it's the search I like with RT. everyone else hates it, I tend to *find* things among those hundreds of tickets. I wouldn't with github. 20:39
moritz I have the feeling that this doc patch makes things more accurate, but less useful for the user 20:40
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pmichaud masak: okay, noted. 20:40
masak github's search simply isn't up to the task for Rakudo's bug rate.
Khisanth! \o/
Khisanth hi? 20:41
diakopter masak: but the interface is hundreds of times faster, so you can scan through far more items in some time.
masak diakopter: that doesn't make sense to me.
diakopter pmichaud: developer.github.com/v3/issues/#create-an-issue
masak moritz: noted. though if I end up submitting fewer bugs (and no-one else does instead), that doesn't mean that Rakudo has fewer bugs. it means fewer bugs end up in the ticket system.
jnthn Submitting bugs is also the primary interface to the ticket system that Rakudo users encounter. 20:42
masak I realize that that's only one factor/dimension/concern... but it seems a big one.
jnthn Pretty much everyone can send an email without much effort :) 20:43
diakopter see github.com/plu/Pithub and github.com/fayland/perl-net-github 20:44
sorear If y'all will forgive me for wild speculaton
after I get the poller set up in dalek, we could have it mirror tickets to a local sqlite db 20:45
diakopter masak: my point was that you can deal with a whole lot of search results much more quickly
sorear then do your fun sql queries on feather3
masak wow, I find I get fairly emotional on this subject. I will shut up now, or I'll start repeating myself.
moritz goes to bed instead :-)
\~
pmichaud WE ARE NOT MIGRATING TO GITHUB ISSUES.
(good enough, masak?)
masak thank you. 20:46
sorear hugs masak
masak feels better now
jnthn Phew.
pmichaud I may want to revisit it again in the far future, but it's not an immediate concern.
sorear
.oO( we just need RT 7 )
masak sorry for tugging the moorings.
pmichaud (it reminds me of the switchover from svn to git, in some ways :)
*switchovers
masak except that git is better than svn... :) 20:48
pmichaud yes, but there were quite a few people who were very reluctant to see us switch :)
masak did they say "I use svn in ways that please me a lot and that are not possible with git"? 20:49
pmichaud they did.
masak I see why it reminds you.
s/^/Then / 20:50
pmichaud it was less dramatic in rakudo's case, because we had to switch repositories anyway.
but for moving the perl6 repo from svn to git there was reluctance, and the battles on parrot's repo were epic.
(also, in rakudo's case I made a pumpking-like-decision-by-fiat after polling the group) 20:51
masak yes, I remember. Rakudo had already made the switch, and we were already on our way adapting to git and liking it when Parrot had their discussions.
pmichaud anyway, we have plenty of other github issue trackers to play with and build up the toolset for before we need to consider moving rakudo's ticket system. 20:52
diakopter: yeah, the new github apis are pretty nice. I was able to write a command-line nopaste utility for github this past week. 20:53
doing an email-to-issue gateway would be fairly simple.
masak realizes he has the affinity thing going with RT; it feels like an extension of his brain in the way Wikipedia and duckdcukgo do 20:54
[Coke] suggests finding out what the RT upgrade would do, and compare that version to github. 20:55
pmichaud of course, we'd have to be really good about dealing with spam issues.
[Coke] hesitates to stump for the ugprade at all if there's a chance we'd migrate.
diakopter it would have to move to a different RT instance or upgrade perl5 also, right?
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pmichaud I'm not pushing for an rt upgrade, unless there really are some much improved capabilities that result. 20:56
diakopter I heard there were tons of customizations to that installation of RT preventing upgrades
pmichaud (and it's not even interesting enough for me to yet go search for what the improvements might be) 20:57
sorear ah
masak no, please don't upgrade.
benabik Hm. RT's front page needs some updating... dev.perl.org/perl6 doesn't exist. Parrot bugs should be submitted to github, not trac. 21:01
Oh. "For issues related to this RT instance[...]" *writes an e-mail( 21:02
masak benabik++
dalek p/toqast: 68c25c3 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
Add abstractions for getting the current lexpad and code.
[Coke] masak: if you want to do /all/ the bug wrangling, then you can tell us not to upgrade. 21:04
Why would you not want RT-latest?
dalek kudo/toqast: b8553f9 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/ (2 files):
A few more now-easy translations.
kudo/toqast: 2c74da4 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Fix pir::op
kudo/toqast: 7a032eb | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Use curlexpad/curcode.
[Coke] are there new bugs you're aware of? 21:05
masak I'll want it when I see that the changes are a net win. currently I have no complaints with this version.
it's not that I think that the new version sucks, it's just that I don't think the current one sucks. 21:06
[Coke]: what is it that you feel is worth upgrading for? 21:07
pmichaud if it had a way to post updates to the channel, that would be worth it.
masak are you aware of any improvements that might benefit us?
pmichaud if it could properly display unicode
masak well, true.
pmichaud if it would not remove the indents from the beginning of code snippets
if I didn't have to re-log in every time I start from a new browser window 21:08
these are issues I ran into in just the last 24 hours. 21:09
if I could preview my replies before posting them # here's another
jnthn Just don't make any mistakes! :P 21:10
jnthn finds the public/private iterface distinction weird.
21:10 skids left
sorear pmichaud: so I'll prioritize adding a dalek poller for issues api v3 21:11
pmichaud sorear: I know many of us would very much like to see that :-)
diakopter it would display something here when a ticket appears/changes?
sorear diakopter: exactly 21:12
benabik Dalek announces ticket open and close on #parrot 21:13
pmichaud benabik: for github, or trac?
benabik github
pmichaud I haven't seen any of my tickets announced on #parrot, fwiw.
sorear I have not seen a github ticket announced on #parrot either 21:14
diakopter fondly recalls creating dalek's account with freenode...... hmm, I wonder what email address I used.
21:14 kaare__ left
[Coke] masak: so, not "please don't upgrade", but "please don't upgrade without making sure it's worth it". sure. 21:15
benabik Hm. I recall it doing so. Perhaps it stopped? 21:16
masak [Coke]: yes. sorry. was unclear.
pmichaud benabik: I did a brief search of #parrot logs looking for a case where a github ticket would be posted into the chan and didn't find one.
[Coke] I think the tickets were announced at some point
masak [Coke]: the discussion I saw was "hm, maybe we should upgrade just because we're a few versions behind?"
pmichaud benabik: for example, the ticket I opened a week ago (#795, 2012-07-02) was never announced to the channel. 21:18
benabik I could have sworn it did at one point. Perhaps that's just the sleep dep talking.
pmichaud maybe it relied on an old Github API 21:19
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sirrobert hi #perl6 21:53
masak sirrobert, hi!
sirrobert how goes it? =)
(and also: how can expand a Hash into a list of Pairs in a sub call? =) 21:54
quietfanatic with prefix:<|> I believe 21:56
masak r: sub foo(*@pairs) { .say for @pairs }; my %foo = foo => 1, bar => 2; foo |(%foo.keys)
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
masak r: sub foo(*@pairs) { .say for @pairs }; my %foo = foo => 1, bar => 2; foo |(%foo.pairs)
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«"foo" => 1␤"bar" => 2␤»
masak r: sub foo(*@pairs) { .say for @pairs }; my %foo = foo => 1, bar => 2; foo |%foo
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«2 unexpected named parameters passed (foo, bar)␤ in sub foo at /tmp/lyxuJnb1Ni:1␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/lyxuJnb1Ni:1␤␤»
masak right. need the .pairs, otherwise they go in as nameds. 21:57
quietfanatic Did you mean named arguments, or simply positional arguments that happen to be pairs?
well, whichever you want, there you go :)
sirrobert heh thanks
(trying it in my code now ... just a sec =)
great; thanks =) 21:58
masak lol, I haz le blogged! \o/ strangelyconsistent.org/blog/july-9...scriptions 21:59
sorear masak++++++
sirrobert great 22:00
What's the game?
a mud-type game? 22:01
ah, I see it
masak it's a re-write of a game I finished last year. 22:03
sorear: oh wow, unexpected karma :)
sirrobert woops -- late! ttyl. 22:05
22:05 sirrobert left
pmichaud r: sub foo(@pairs) { .say for @pairs }; my %foo = foo => 1, bar => 2; foo (%foo.pairs); 22:07
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«"foo" => 1␤"bar" => 2␤»
pmichaud no need to interpolate :)
r: sub foo(@pairs) { .say for @pairs }; my %foo = foo => 1, bar => 2; foo (@(%foo)); 22:08
p6eval rakudo d8e7b6: OUTPUT«"foo" => 1␤"bar" => 2␤»
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seldon Good *, #perl6. 22:10
masak seldon! \o/
lue hello world o/ 22:11
seldon I did not manage to look into git today, I'm afraid. I fear I have rediscovered the ultimate time waster. 22:14
seldon dug up the old Megaman games for NES on the weekend.
22:15 thelazydeveloper left
colomon has been playing Xevious lately... 22:15
seldon I'm astonished you were able to make time to tell us that. 22:17
22:18 spider-mario left 22:21 nodmonkey left
colomon self-employment requires a certain self discipline. I don't get to spend much time playing computer games. 22:21
by the same token, I may have done more Xevious playing than I should have this morning....
22:23 samlt left 22:31 vmspb left
cognominal what is the way to enumerate the keys of a nqp hash? 22:31
nqp: my %a; %a<a>:='b'; say(%a.keys)
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Method 'keys' not found for invocant of class 'Hash'␤current instr.: '_block1000' pc 76 ((file unknown):55) (/tmp/sziesbAloC:1)␤»
pmichaud nqp hashes are low level -- no methods 22:32
so
nqp: my %a; %a<a> := 'b'; for %a { say($_.key) }
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«a␤»
cognominal ok, thx
pmichaud it can also be done with low-level primitives like nqp::iterator 22:33
nqp: my %a; %a<a> := 'b'; my $it := nqp::iterator(%a); while $it { say($it.shift.key); }
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Method 'shift' not found for invocant of class 'HashIterator'␤current instr.: '_block1000' pc 118 ((file unknown):75) (/tmp/kqHi1xUphX:1)␤»
pmichaud nqp: my %a; %a<a> := 'b'; my $it := nqp::iterator(%a); while $it { say(nqp::shift($it).key); }
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«a␤»
22:34 tokuhiro_ joined
cognominal I am making good but slow progress on github.com/cognominal/codeview I hope that I will have a way to access a nqp parse tree 22:35
it would be sad if I had to choose another language than Perl 6 as target :(
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jnthn cognominal: I've got a hack that spits out a Perl 6 parse tree as json. It's horrible but seems to kinda work. 22:57
cognominal: gist.github.com/3079610 23:00
23:00 sjn joined
sjn o/ 23:00
jnthn cognominal: Seems to get classes ok too :)
hi sjn
cognominal jnthn, nice. it comes at the right time. I will add a github page for my project within a week. 23:02
jnthn cognominal: If you want to/from out, that should also be easy.
masak sjn! \o/
sjn is reading masak's crypt-game 23:04
cognominal jnthn++ it seem very close to what I need. I am using JSON::Tiny and a different json format to drive my hilighter but that should be very minor changes. The difficult part was to hook to Perl6 internals 23:05
jnthn, sorry to have been pushy, but that will ultimately benefit Perl 6 23:06
jnthn Well, I just swapped out the main body of the compiler for something that spits json rather than actually compiling and running the code :)
cognominal: You're welcome, I look forward to seeing what you come up with 23:07
sjn is a little confuzzled about the mix of "programming terms" naming and "world description" naming in the crypt game 23:09
masak: Maybe a silly question, but wouldn't it be easier to describe/read the game if you chose only one of those naming schemes? 23:10
cognominal maybe his game is just a big autopun
masak sjn: not sure what things you mean are confused. 23:11
jnthn -> rest
23:11 whiteknight joined
masak sjn: I'm off to bed, but please leave suggestions in the backlog and I'll get to them. 23:11
cognominal jnthn, btw, the nqp shell is still broken. the stuff type given at the second prompt always lead to an error
masak 'night, #perl6
23:11 whiteknight is now known as Guest44870
cognominal 'night everyone 23:12
sjn well, my first thought when reading the code was "this Adventure::Engine class, with it's attributes, might have been called Adventure::World or Game::World or something"
just throwing out some thoughts... 23:14
nn masak & jnthn :)
23:26 fridim_ left 23:35 awwaiid left, awwaiid joined 23:52 Vlavv` joined

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