»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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dalek kudo/nom: 95dfc00 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Version.pm:
Revise Version.Str / .gist / .perl .

After thinking about it a bit more, I'm of the opinion that
  $version.Str should produce a string that doesn't include
a leading 'v'. The .gist form does have a leading 'v', however, so C< say $version > still does what one expects.
When putting a version in the middle of a string we'll often want to exclude any leading 'v' (e.g., when generating filenames), it's much easier to add a 'v' when it's needed than it is to eliminate one we don't want. Also, the form without the leading 'v' is the only one that can (so far) reliably have much chance of round-tripping back into Version.new(...), since alphabetics in strings arguments to Version.new are meaningful.
At the moment the spec is somewhat silent on this topic, so I'm hoping this will make more sense. If not, a spec clarification or some official tests will let us know how to improve it. :-)		 00:38
[Coke] jnthn: I feel your pain on PIR method/opcode/directive naming issues. a lot of those were done organically. 00:39
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dalek ast: e47e2da | pmichaud++ | S (2 files):
Update tests for .values; .values returns something safely mutable.
 01:42
ast: 593c77c | pmichaud++ | S02-literals/version.t:
Update version stringification tests.
kudo/nom: 499cc68 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Version.pm:
Cleanup Version .parts handling a bit.
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JimmyZ pmichaud: ping 02:30
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JimmyZ pmichaud: I found that why built dyncall failed between different strawberry perl versions 02:33
diakopter oh? 02:34
JimmyZ pmichaud: try "cd nqp\3rdparty\dyncall\dyncall && as -o dyncall_call.o dyncall_call.S"
pmichaud: you will see an emtpy dyncall_call.o file in higher strawberry perl version 02:36
pmichaud: this error aslo occured in dyncall 0.6, then I updated it to 0.7 02:39
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machinebrain yo 05:02
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adu oy 05:32
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moritz \oy 05:47
phenny moritz: 11 Jul 20:56Z <tadzik> tell moritz panda on offline-bootstrap is capable of installing itself to a specified directory without an internet connection. That could prove useful for Star
moritz: 11 Jul 20:59Z <tadzik> tell moritz also, by manipulating projects.json.bootstrap and bootstrap.pl it should be able to install any Star modules required, all offline
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moritz \o/ 05:54
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adu moritz 06:09
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tadzik hello hello 06:39
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sorear hello hello 06:47
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dalek c: 6fe21c0 | (Felix Herrmann)++ | lib/Numeric.pod:
add coercion to Rat/Num/Int/Real
 07:22
moritz felher++
moritz finally tests and applies the patches from gist.github.com/3059358
hoelzro better than fehler++, right? =) 07:26
moritz aye :-)
hoelzro I tried something like the following last night: gist.github.com/3096456 07:29
I expected it to output 1, but it outputs 3; it seems the hash expands; why is that?
moritz because hashes flatten 07:30
use %hash.item if you want to prevent that
or don't use a slurpy in the signature 07:31
r: gist.github.com/3096456
p6eval rakudo 499cc6: OUTPUT«3␤»
hoelzro moritz: do arrays flatten as well?
moritz hoelzro: yes
hoelzro: in general, flattening is controlled by the sigil 07:32
hoelzro but only if a slurpy parameter is used?
moritz % and @ flatten, $ does not
hoelzro: correct
hoelzro hmm...I didn't expect that
I thought I read that "arrays don't flatten in Perl6"
moritz r: sub f(%h) { say %h.elems }; my %h = :a, :b, :c; f %h
p6eval rakudo 499cc6: OUTPUT«3␤»
moritz hoelzro: that's certainly wrong in that generality
hoelzro there doesn't happen to be a way to specify a slurpy parameter that doesn't flatten its arguments, does there? 07:33
moritz people say and write a lot of crackpot things about Perl 6. Don't believe everything :-)
hoelzro moritz: I thought I read that in the synopses =P
moritz hoelzro: well, arrays don't flatten into argument lists. It's the callee side that flattens 07:34
hoelzro I was writing a simple RPC function that accepts a method name and an arbitary list of arguments, so it needs to be slurpy
moritz you can always do something like
hoelzro moritz: the callee flattens when it "binds" to the signature?
moritz r: sub f(|$everything) { say $everything.perl }; my %h = :a, :b, :!c; f(%h)
p6eval rakudo 499cc6: OUTPUT«Capture.new( list => ("a" => Bool::True, "b" => Bool::True, "c" => Bool::False).list, hash => EnumMap.new())␤»
moritz hoelzro: right 07:35
hm, that looks wrong. I'd exepcted it to retain the hash
r: sub f(|$everything) { say $everything[0].WHAT }; my %h = :a, :b; f(%h)
p6eval rakudo 499cc6: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
moritz ok, it does work 07:36
it's just .perl that flattens it
moritz submits rakudobug
dalek kudo/nom: c758c1b | (Felix Herrmann)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
add X::Numeric::Real

Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz [email@hidden.address]
hoelzro moritz: I'll have to play with the | in the signature, thanks =) 07:37
I'm making a list of all of the "I don't know how to do this" while writing my chat bot =)
diakopter 01:54 -!- imarcusthis [~marcus-fr@231.110.45.31.customer.cdi.no] has joined #perl6 07:38
moritz Capture.perl bug submitted as RT #114100 07:39
diakopter ergh
good thing it didn't paste more than that
dalek ecs/io-refactor: 7fb26ae | (Felix Herrmann)++ | S32-setting-library/ (2 files):
introduce X::Numeric::Real

Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz [email@hidden.address]
moritz oops, wrong branch 07:40
dalek ecs: 69be1be | (Felix Herrmann)++ | S32-setting-library/ (2 files):
introduce X::Numeric::Real

Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz [email@hidden.address]
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dalek ast: a47ed9f | moritz++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
test X::Numeric::Real
 07:58
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jnthn morning 08:57
diakopter ahoy
moritz \o
tadzik ohay 09:00
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szabgab hi perl6ers 09:05
I made some changes to Test.pm to make the subs return theirs truth 09:06
but then I found out I don't have commit bit for rakudo
shall I fork it and push it there or shall I wait for a commit bit?
moritz szabgab: please submit a pull request, or give us a patch or so 09:07
szabgab ok, I fork and let you pull
moritz szabgab: unfortunately rakudo commit bits aren't given out as freely as to other projects
(due to ownership/license/purity/whatever-concerns)
szabgab no problem
though I think I signed that paper once
but it never got processed IIRC 09:08
moritz phenny: ask pmichaud could you please check if there's a valid CLA for szabgab available? 09:11
phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
szabgab will phenny notice the pull request or do I need to mentione it here? 09:13
moritz szabgab: the rakudo comitters (and followers) receive email notification from github 09:15
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moritz szabgab: which isn't quite real time, but often good enough 09:16
szabgab ok, and now I have a forked version on my computer, do I need to do some special thing to set the nom branch as the upstream or just 09:17
git remote add upstream git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
moritz that should work, yes 09:19
szabgab and then git fetch upstream; git merge upstream/master
or that last one should be nom ? 09:20
moritz yes, nom 09:22
there's no rakudo/master
or, there shouldn't be :-)
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szabgab moritz: thanks 09:27
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moritz szabgab: I'm spectesting rakudo with your Test.pm patch. Will push if everything passes (which I think it will) 09:28
Woodi hello today 09:32
someone can help me with starting with niecza on windows with GUI
?
got niecza so far :) 09:33
sorear What do you mean by "with GUI"? 09:34
moritz Woodi: I don't know anything about the topic, but the first thing I'd try to do is run an example
sorear Do you have the .NET framework installed?
Does it work from CMD.EXE?
moritz mberends and colomon have posted example GUI programs
Woodi probably I have .NET
sorear the example GUI programs all require Gtk#
Woodi say 2 + 2; works
dalek kudo/nom: c2c02ab | (Gabor Szabo)++ | / (2 files):
change most of the Test.pm functions to return their truth value and test this in the sanity test
sorear I would not try them unless you know it works 09:35
Woodi examples are not bundled ?
sorear ... no, they're not
this is an oversight 09:36
if you fetch the source from git, they're in examples/
Woodi on github ?
k
sorear yes
Woodi do I need GTK or .Net GUI will work ?
sorear GTK 09:37
Woodi ok
sorear all of the examples are written to use the GTK API
in theory you could write an example to use System.Windows.Forms or the Windows Presentation Framework, both(?) of which come with .NET on Windows 09:38
GTK# has the best cross-platform support though
Qt# and WinForms have poor support on other plaforms, WPF and MonoMac have none at all 09:39
Woodi but examples of not portable .Net working GUI apps would be nice :)
sorear GUIs are IME the main obstacle to realizing the promise of portable apps on the "Common" language infrastructure 09:40
jnthn actually taught WPF once. A while back. :) 09:41
Woodi background: there is mod DayZ to ARMA2 game with 3rd party heavy launcher written in Ruby probably... it is so annoing on few levels... :)
yea, in year 2000 when I hear about Perl6 I hoped for two things: threads and kind-of-universal-NICE-LOOKING-gui... 09:42
-sorear-: I would realy like to try just native .Net GUI with niecza... Any examples somewhere ? 09:49
sorear look at the existing examples for .net/p6 interop, then look for winforms/wpf examples on the internet 09:50
Woodi oki 09:52
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dalek ecs/io-refactor: 2230db7 | moritz++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
[S32] clarify that only sub forms of say and print warn without arguments
 10:09
ecs/io-refactor: e47c923 | moritz++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
[S32] remove a mathom
 10:11
moritz could somebody please review the Socket part of S32::IO in the io-refactor branch? 10:15
it's the only major missing piece
and I don't know much about sockets
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moritz of course reviews of the other stuff would be appreciated too 10:16
oh, and there is IO stuff in S16 too. Shit, I forgot about that 10:17
some of that needs to move to the S32::IO/Here be Dragons/ section too 10:19
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bbkr rakudo: use Test; eval_lives_ok '1<&1' 10:21
p6eval rakudo c2c02a: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized variable $v of type Any in numeric context in block <anon> at eval_0:1␤␤ok 1 - ␤»
Woodi niecza with default GTK# installation runs few examples but maybe Cairo is additional dependency ?
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sorear Woodi: maybe! 10:37
colomon o/ 10:39
colomon had not expected to see sorear awake 10:40
jnthn wonders if sorear is still doing yesterday ;) 10:41
sorear :|
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moritz jnthn, pmichaud: ping 12:30
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moritz I'm trying to add methods 'resume' and 'resumable' to class Exception 12:30
and sub print_control currently uses my $resume := nqp::atkye($ex, 'resume'); if $resume {... } 12:31
however when I add similar code to class Exception, I get get_integer() not implemented in class 'Continuation' 12:32
do I have to specifically check the exception type for 'control'?
jnthn moritz: plz can I see the code you've added? 12:33
moritz jnthn: method resumable() { nqp::p6bool(nqp::atkey($!ex, 'resume')) } 12:34
./perl6 -e 'try die "foo"; say $!.resumable'
jnthn try 12:38
tadzik CATCH
:)
jnthn nqp::p6bool(nqp::istrue(nqp::atkey($!ex, 'resume'))) 12:39
tadzik: oh, CONTROL yourself :P
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[Coke] jnthn: let's KEEP this clean. 12:41
moritz just LEAVE it at that, will you? 12:42
jnthn OK, this will be my LAST comment. 12:43
moritz I'll be the FIRST to try to UNDO the damages that my puns have made 12:44
[Coke] ... I might need to START over here. 12:45
moritz yes, do BEGIN
jnthn When will this END?!
dalek kudo/nom: 74e1838 | moritz++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
[Exception] add methods resumable and resume
 12:46
tadzik follow this way and you'll ENTER a road of madness
moritz wonders what an outsider would make of this conversation :-) 12:47
jnthn Yeah, and don't forget to CHECK out the flying pink giraffe by the roadside. 12:48
moritz: They'd say, "#perl6 is a really strange place, INIT?" 12:49
moritz jnthn: as long as they don't want to REDO #perl6 in their own way, that's fine :-)
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jnthn Fail! There is no REDO phaser :P 12:50
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moritz there... isn't? 12:51
OH NOES
jnthn Not in S04 at least. :)
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[Coke] C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER! 12:52
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moritz ok, we've missed PRE, POST and NEXT 12:54
mauke PREPOSTerous
moritz let's move on to the NEXT type of pun then :-) 12:55
timotimo we took the concept of taking a concept and running with it and just ran with it!
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timotimo ... and that's how autopuns were made 13:00
dalek ecs/io-refactor: 09c9f53 | moritz++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
[S32::Exception] mention methods resumable and resume
 13:01
moritz wrong branch again. HATE.
moritz not used to having branches in specs
so I should merge soon, right? 13:02
somebody please confirm that S32 is less insane in the branch than in master :-)
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pmichaud good morning, briefly 13:25
phenny pmichaud: 09:11Z <moritz> ask pmichaud could you please check if there's a valid CLA for szabgab available?
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pmichaud moritz: don't see one in the spreadsheet 13:26
jnthn o/ Pm 13:27
pmichaud o/
moritz pmichaud: ok, thanks 13:29
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pmichaud afk, errands 13:32
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Woodi -sorear-: I got few times: Unhandled exception: ... at /home/stefan/rel/niecza/... that's unnecesary level of details :) 13:56
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arnsholt jnthn: In the callback stuff, dyncallback distinguishes between const char * and void *. Any opinions on whether we should pass string arguments as the former or the latter? 14:15
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jnthn Hmm...does it distinguish those in normal argument passing? 14:15
dcArgPointer(vm, str); 14:17
Seems even if it does, we don't...
arnsholt No documented difference in argument binding 14:18
jnthn Curious that they've chosen to distinguish the two for callbacks.
arnsholt The signatures also want to distinguish between signed and unsigned types, for some reason 14:19
jnthn Well, that can matter. I'm less surprised by that than I am that they single out char *
oh, maybe it's the cosnt-ness... 14:20
arnsholt Yeah, they do say that the signedness is for higher-level bindings and not of interest to the C library 14:21
jnthn I'm guessing this is not so much about passing, as processing the arguments that we get returned?
arnsholt I guess
jnthn A pointer is a pointer though...
Our existing code just handles it with void*
So it's probably easier for us to do that.
arnsholt Right. We're in agreement then
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diakopter um. what is this new code editor view on github 15:14
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diakopter oh, I must have clicked Edit this file 15:16
odd
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not_gerd hello, #perl6 15:17
dalek p: 62b9fc9 | (Gerhard R)++ | 3rdparty/dyncall/buildsys/gmake/tool/gcc.gmake:
[dyncall] workaround for build issues on case-insensitive file systems

fixes issue #47		 15:18
pmichaud not_gerd: nice patch! I'll re-try with strawberry again :) 15:20
not_gerd: did you see that I fixed #113666 ? ;-)
not_gerd pmichaud: yes, I saw # pmichaud++ 15:21
in fact, I already updated the benchmark script 15:22
pmichaud \o/
not_gerd (perl6-examples/shootout/regex-dna.p6.pl)
btw, regular expressions neither .Str nor .gist properly 15:23
r: say /foo/
p6eval rakudo 74e183: OUTPUT«_block1011␤»
pmichaud sure, that's known.
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pmichaud r: sub foo { 1 }; say &foo 15:24
p6eval rakudo 74e183: OUTPUT«sub foo() { ... }␤»
pmichaud r: say /foo/.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 74e183: OUTPUT«Regex()␤»
pmichaud r: say /foo/.gist
p6eval rakudo 74e183: OUTPUT«_block1011␤»
pmichaud okay, that part is weird.
oh! 15:25
r: class XYZ { method abc() { ... } }; say XYZ.^methods[0]
p6eval rakudo 74e183: OUTPUT«abc␤»
pmichaud regexes are methods, so they stringify like them.
JimmyZ re not_gerd's patch: github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/17acbc...2eed#L1L48 :) 15:26
not_gerd so I might have broken the build on other versions of strawberry perl? 15:28
hopefully not...
anyway, we could always just remove the %.s rule 15:29
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pmichaud (re: RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG) instead of only displaying the module load information if the environment variable is set, would it be easier to always log the entries and then display them if/when the "Missing or wrong version of dependency" message is displayed? How big would that log get? 15:41
s/easier/better/
i.e., let it act more like a backtrace than like a warn log 15:42
not_gerd thinks it might be a good idea to find out why shootout/revcomp.p6.pl is so slow - it had the worst result in 2009 and regressed since then... 15:43
pmichaud not_gerd: well, I can totally understand why it would regress -- the regex engine has gotten a lot more complex since 2009 15:44
oh, and I suspect that .trans is not at all performant either 15:45
not_gerd needs to leave, but will check later if someone reopened the strawberry ticket 15:46
bye, #perl6
pmichaud I'm testing strawberry 5.16.0 now
diakopter pmichaud: 64-bit or 32-bit? 15:47
pmichaud 32-bit
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pmichaud I don't have easy access to a 64-bit windows system atm 15:47
diakopter I'll try 64-bit if yours works
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JimmyZ yes, the above patch brokes strawberry 5.10.1 15:49
..\..\3rdparty\dyncall\dyncall\libdyncall_s.a(dyncall_callvm.o):dyncall_callvm.c :(.text+0x1fe): undefined reference to `dcCall_x86_cdecl'
pmichaud nqp now builds under strawberry 5.16.1 though. 15:51
sorry, 5.16.0
JimmyZ after `git reset HEAD~1 --hard`, I got a build too. 15:52
so I'm +1 to remove %.s part
pmichaud diakopter: can you try under 64-bit? 15:53
JimmyZ sleeps
diakopter doing so now
pmichaud diakopter++
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pmichaud I'm going to try with strawberry 5.14 15:53
actually, I should test 5.12 again too with the patch 15:55
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diakopter pmichaud: do you know of a git command to take a checkout tree to a pristine state (say, at its last commit), including deleting all untracked files? 15:58
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pmichaud git clean -xdf 15:58
recurses into subdirs, too, so be careful :)
I've been doing the following:
diakopter so in the rakudo build dir, it would also go into nqp and parrot?
pmichaud rmdir /s install 15:59
(yes)
diakopter oh; I've been re-checking out every time :(
pmichaud in the rakudo build dir, it would *delete* nqp and parrot
so...
diakopter oh..
pmichaud rmdir /s install
cd nqp
git clean -xdf
cd ..\parrot
git clean -xdf
cd ..
perl Configure.pl --gen-nqp=master --gen-parrot
diakopter oh hm 16:00
jnthn
.oO( It's funny to see Pm writing paths with backslashes :D )
pmichaud jnthn: notice how I only did it once? ;-) 16:01
jnthn ;-) 16:02
pmichaud maybe I should've written cd ..@slash@parrot instead :-)
jnthn Looking at the dependency error, it'd be good to include the module currently being loaded in the error somewhre.
diakopter tries not to run rmdir /S /W \
jnthn Wonder how hard it is to make that happen...
diakopter er
maybe a good thing I typo'd that
pmichaud 5.14.2 is working for me also 16:03
let's try 5.12 now
jnthn Hmm, so backlogging, iiuc the situation now is that things work with Strawberry 5.14/5.16 with the patch, but not 5.10, which did work before? 16:04
pmichaud jnthn: almost
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pmichaud jimmyz++ apparently did a patch 5 months ago to fix things for strawberry (works with 5.10). not_gerd's patch today undoes part of jimmy z's patch from 5 months ago, and now things work for 5.14 and 5.16 16:05
I'm testing now to see if today's patch works with 5.12
I'd like a version that works with all of 5.10, 5.12, 5.14, and 5.16, but if that's not possible, I'd prefer 5.12+ as the minimum version. 16:06
jnthn *nod*
pmichaud I'd be willing to accept 5.14+
but... reluctantly 16:07
anyway, we'll know here in a just a second.
...or more
diakopter pmichaud: I noticed msvc builds parrot/nqp/rakudo *significantly* more quickly than gcc, but rakudo/msvc builds CORE.setting 13% more slowly than rakudo/gcc 16:08
pmichaud diakopter: yeah, that's kinda interesting. 16:09
okay, nqp master also works with 5.12.3 16:13
diakopter pmichaud: yes, works with 64-bit 5.16.0.1
pmichaud so, if there's another patch (remove .s rule) that enables things to work with 5.10 while retaining 5.12+, I'm fine with that. If patching for 5.10 means we lose 5.14+, then I'd reject the patch for 5.10. 16:14
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pmichaud and after adequate testing, we should bump NQP_REVISION in rakudo's head 16:15
[Coke] shame we don't have an easy way to track build failures as opposed to test failures. 16:19
"surely there's an app for that."
pmichaud [Coke]: I'm thinking of setting up a couple of amazon ec2 instances; we might be able to do something with that.
16:19 crab2313 left
pmichaud Indeed, part of why I'm playing with windows builds is to see what would be required to do that 16:20
added my results and comments to #47
16:20 fgomez left 16:25 nightlord left
pmichaud I'm afk for a bit 16:25
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dalek p/toqast: f014bdc | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Handle an optimization escape hatch for the way $_, $!, $/ and %_ are handled.
 16:38
16:38 kaleem joined
dalek kudo/toqast: 8721264 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Updates to use new exception handling approach in QAST. Gets 12-try.t passing again.
 16:38
jnthn qperl6 (Rakudo using QAST) now passes all but 1 of the sanity tests, and 3430 tests from make spectest. 16:47
[Coke] jnthn++ 16:49
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Coleoid If I want to make changes to the test suite, should I fork Roast, or Mu, or ? 17:11
phenny Coleoid: 11 Jul 18:49Z <[Coke]> tell Coleoid that smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/smoke_reports/5 exists for tracking test failures on different versions/platforms.
Coleoid [Coke]: Thanks!
17:14 simplx left
diakopter Coleoid: just ask for a commit bit, and you can make changes directly 17:14
hugme: add Coleoid to perl6 17:15
hugme diakopter: You need to register with freenode first
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Coleoid diakopter: Do you mean that changes to the tests inside the rakudo tree will make it into the official perl6 test suite? 17:36
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tadzik jnthn: woo \o/ 17:56
awesome!
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dalek p/toqast: 3dc36d1 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Implement falling back to symbol if there are QAST::Var nodes with no scope declared.
 18:15
kudo/toqast: 869ffc9 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Toss :lvalue marker that isn't needed.
 18:19
kudo/toqast: e99f5b5 | jnthn++ | t/harness:
Run spectest with qperl6.
kudo/toqast: 3589ee7 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Fix self, booleans.
kudo/toqast: 4b2dc33 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Fix up Whatever * hanlding a bit.
18:30 nodmonkey left 18:42 spider-mario left 18:49 xinming left
masak hola, #perl6! 18:49
moritz \o masak, #perl6 18:50
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masak in my Esperanto class this year is an 11yo Lithuanian girl. on the third day she read Asterix fluently and did math problems in Esperanto. o.O 18:51
it makes me feel almost obsolete. 18:52
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gfldex you may want to try to feel proud instead 18:55
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masak oh, I do :) 18:56
dalek kudo/toqast: fd5eecc | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Fix &foo.
kudo/toqast: 5768ec4 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Fix return.
18:59 cognominal left 19:00 cognominal joined 19:01 la_bori_nena joined
masak la_bori_nena: sal! 19:01
la_bori_nena masak sal tu!
masak ;)
masak saltas
la_bori_nena ;) 19:02
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masak la_bori_nena: unua vizito ĉe #perl6? 19:03
PerlJam martinfowler.com/bliki/SemanticDiffusion.html 19:04
Seems like that article has some lessons for Perl 6 too 19:05
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masak PerlJam: interesting. 19:06
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sorear good * #perl6 19:11
masak sorear! \o/ 19:12
colomon he's awake!
masak follows that up with a few bongs on a large drum 19:14
not_gerd pmichaud: I've got a fix which works on Strawberry 5.10.1.2-32bit, 5.16.0.1-32bit, 5.14.2.1-64bit but slightly changes build semantics
(always goes through gcc and never invokes as directly)
dalek kudo/toqast: c37bf13 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Fix :foo and :!foo colonpairs.
 19:15
kudo/toqast: ad2340a | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Fix named arg passing.
colomon just was thinking how much easier his $work would be in perl6, then realized that there was no reason he couldn't apply some good Perl common sense to make his C++ life easier. 19:16
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seldon I suspect trying to make C++ work like Perl6 would not end prettily. 19:27
colomon don't need to make the whole thing work like Perl 6 19:28
well, I mean, that would be nice.
but I'm focusing on one particular set of function calls
seldon That's rather too vague for me to make a meaningful comment. 19:32
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moritz then don't :-) 19:37
seldon Meaningless it is, then. :P 19:38
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colomon seldon: wasn't looking for advice, just celebrating having an idea that would save me ten or twenty meaningless lines of code in dozens of tests. 19:43
seldon Ah. Congratulations, then. 19:44
dalek p/toqast: 200e52f | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
Implement a vivify op.
p/toqast: 4f2cb27 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/Actions.nqp:
Add (not really done yet) QAST variants of various things in QRegex::P6Regex::Actions.
kudo/toqast: 5a7d74b | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Unbustify smartmatching.
 19:45
kudo/toqast: 815a09e | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Fix a couple of .type => .returns.
kudo/toqast: 197f1ea | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/ (2 files):
Add perl6_assert_bind_ok => p6bindassert.
kudo/toqast: fe865e9 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
Update compilation of attribute access.
kudo/toqast: 83c62e8 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
A couple more small qastifications.
jnthn Whee. Up to 11284 spectests passing again. Big things still broken: regexes, roles, BEGIN.
diakopter pushed --dump 19:47
ww
masak ;) 19:48
jnthn
.oO( there I was thinking it was a comment on my dalek spam :P )
Things this is teaching me about the spectest: a lot of tests use regexes :) 19:51
moritz aye 19:53
I try to keep the number small, but it's not easy
though I guess it's much worse in p5 :-)
PerlJam regex are one of Perl's killer features. 19:54
moritz $ ack 'PAST::' src/QPerl6/|wc -l
106
jnthn moritz: It was an observation more than a criticism. :)
I have hit the point where I really need to get regexes done to be able to clearly see the remaining issues, though :) 19:55
moritz jnthn: I didn't feel critized
jnthn OK :)
PerlJam Is QAST documented somewhere?
diakopter hey, I asked that a couple weeks ago :) 19:56
jnthn Doc...what?
diakopter the response I got: "read QAST::Compiler"
jnthn promises to document it once things have settled down :)
I'd rather document something that I know actually works. Rakudo using it is kinda the test for that :) 19:57
PerlJam I was just curious about some of the changes made in recent commits like how "pasttype" becomes "op" and "type" becomes "returns"
jnthn type becoming returns is really a mergeback style change.
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jnthn PAST has returns, but it stuck a string name of a type in there. 19:58
PerlJam gotcha
jnthn 6model came along and added "type", because now with SCs we wanted to talk lots about types at compile time and use type objects.
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jnthn Now we can talk about types as, well, types, there's no reason to talk about them as strings. 19:59
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jnthn And pmichaud++ felt "returns" was clearer than "type", and I agreed, so "returns" in QAST just expects a type object in there. :) 19:59
pasttype => op is just a nice cleanup/unification. 20:00
You use it all the time, and op is a 25% of the typing :)
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lue loliblog! : rdstar.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/nq...w-to-port/ 20:16
jnthn lue: Actually current work is replacing the thing that does the AST => PIR into something that should be much more welcoming to get to emit code for other VMs :) 20:18
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lue jnthn: I was considering waiting until QAST migration was complete to start the actual work (so I don't work with PAST and then have to migrate everything to QAST) 20:19
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PerlJam lue++ 20:20
lue: Maybe jnthn could use some help with the QASTification ;) 20:21
pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6 20:22
lue I was just thinking "Gee, it doesn't feel right to just sit and wait for QAST when I could potentially help bring it to completion" /me checkout's toqast
jnthn pmichaud! :)
PerlJam pmichaud: greetings
pmichaud lue: for the pmcs themselves, you mainly need a way to create array, hash, and subroutine objects. 20:23
(looking at nqp on llvm)
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pmichaud and probably gotos (continuations?) 20:25
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lue according to LLVM's LangRef, it comes with functions and arrays, but not hashes (shouldn't be *too* hard to fake, though (he naïvely said)) 20:25
pmichaud yeah, hashes are pretty important to nqp and perl6... they get used for symbol tables of all sorts 20:26
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pmichaud it's entirely possible that with a fast enough backend, the pmc types in src/pmc could be written as 6model objects :-) 20:27
(unless jnthn++ corrects me on this point :-) 20:28
sjn just read that as "if things are fast enough, we can make it slower" :-P
jnthn Oh, if you're building an NQP from the ground up, you most certainly do your everything 6model-y.
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lue wonders if others using LLVM would like hashes, and therefore worth having it added as a new type to LLVMIR. 20:29
sjn hopes he misunderstoodimated
jnthn That we still use RPA and Hash is a bit unfortunate.
Because it means that NQP on Parrot will look different to NQP on anything else, and that's gonna hurt.
sjn jnthn btw, still waiting for your flight details :) 20:30
jnthn oh yeah...my flight...
pmichaud sjn: no, I'm not saying you can make it slower. Indeed, I have many reasons to believe that a pure 6model based implementation of some of nqp's core types could be at least as fast (if not faster) than Parrot's PMC implementation of those types
jnthn It can be faster in theory. 20:31
PMC vtable functions are polymorphic.
REPR functions are not polymorphic.
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jnthn Well, to clarify 20:32
They are if you don't know the representation of the thing you have. 20:33
If you do know the representation statically, you can do rather better.
sjn that helps
less code to run => faster
anhoo, not much need to spend more time explaining this to me :) 20:34
jnthn To some degree, though optimizing for CPU cycle count isn't always the key these days.
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lue tends to optimize for memory usage 20:37
sjn jnthn: to that I'd reply "yes, give me both, please" :)
pmichaud we like doing "both please" :-)
jnthn Well, I was thinking of minimizing cache misses, but memory usage ties into that too. :)
pmichaud just notices that his build on 32-bit strawberry fails spectests, so time to find out why 20:39
I _still_ need to come up with a yapc::eu talk topic 20:40
(yes, deadline is this weekend, I know)
supernovus Okay, say you have a string representing the name of a class, and you want to dynamically load that class at runtime. I thought the 'require' statement should do just that, but it does not seem to export the class.
err import the class...
jnthn supernovus: Can you show what you're trying? 20:41
supernovus: I can guess what the issue may be but it's easier to explain with some code :)
supernovus Okay, given there is a class called Foo defined in a Foo.pm6 in path in the @*INC: my $classname = 'Foo'; require $classname; my $foo = Foo.new; 20:42
jnthn Aha 20:43
Yeah, the problem here is that the compiler decides if something is a class name or a routine name at compile time.
And the import is at runtime
pmichaud not only that, but the name is a lexical symbol.
jnthn So you need to defer the lookup until runtime too
Try
pmichaud and you can't modify the lexpad at runtime.
jnthn ::('Foo').new
pmichaud: Yeah, but unless it's a lexical class you can get at it. 20:44
pmichaud: Since require still does GLOBAL merging.
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pmichaud jnthn: oh, probably because those things have sigils, then? 20:44
jnthn ::($classname).new should also work 20:45
pmichaud: "those things"?
supernovus Ah! Thank you! I knew there was something I was missing. I'd done something similar to this a while back, but at that time 'require' was broken and I ended up having to use some hideous workaround (I'm thinking this was in the 'alpha' branch, so yeah, quite some time ago...)
pmichaud jnthn: I'm thinking if the imported module has things to be exported... they get exported, where?
sorear o/ Araq
Araq hi sorear 20:46
jnthn pmichaud: require will only import things in the list of things you tell it about.
pmichaud okay, and that's a compile-time list. Got it.
jnthn pmichaud: require Foo <@bar &baz>; # stubs @bar and &baz
And then they are imported when you do the require.
pmichaud if you don't have the list at runtime but still want to get to them, you do that by...? 20:47
s/runtime/compiletime/
::('Foo')<@bar> # perhaps?
jnthn pmichaud: Good question. At the moment I think the answer is "you can't". I don't think there's any spec'd way.
Well, if you have a
module Foo; 20:48
sub bar is export { }
Then you can do things like
require 'Foo';
::('Foo')::EXPORT::DEFAULT::<@bar>
pmichaud okay. 20:49
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pmichaud that's all I need for now :) 20:49
jnthn I suspect there's a case for having some way to get require to dump all the imports somewhere for you.
nwc10 jnthn++ # QAST progress
masak Araq: \o
pmichaud S11 talks about .EXPORTALL putting things into package scope
jnthn S11 talks about a lot of stuff ;)
pmichaud then I suppose you could do OUR::<&bar> 20:50
nwc10 anyway, I read perl6maven.com/most-popular-shell-c...sing-perl6 and wondered when someone would be implementing Perl Power Tools on Perl 6 :-)
Araq the friendliness of this channel never ceases to amaze me, masak :-)
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masak Araq: yeah, same. 20:51
20:51 cognominal left
Araq making it hard to sneak into to steal some ideas ... 20:51
jnthn pmichaud: Oh, I see the bit you're sayin'
masak Araq: it's almost as if we actually, genuinely care.
jnthn pmichaud: Hmm. If that's gonna work, what is EXPORTALL a method on?
masak :P
pmichaud jnthn: oh, that's using require with a compile-time-name
require Sense; Sense.EXPORTALL 20:52
jnthn Also that. :)
Well, in Rakudo just because you write a name after a use or require doesn't mena it's automatically a package name.
pmichaud right
Araq masak: indeed, but I can't be fooled ;-) 20:53
jnthn But my question still stands: if there is an EXPORTALL method, then it has to be a method on a type object of some kind.
I'd be less surprised by Sense::.EXPORTALL
And for runtime
pmichaud ...type object? Doesn't it just have to be a namespace or package object?
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jnthn ::('Sense')::.EXPORTALL 20:53
pmichaud (or are you folding those into the overall "type object" definition here?)
jnthn In which case it's on the Stash
pmichaud: They're all type objects.
pmichaud yes, I expect EXPORTALL and stuff to be methods on stashes 20:54
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pmichaud basically whatever S11 talks about is stash stuff for the most part :) 20:54
jnthn module Foo { } # Foo is a type object. The HOW behind it is pretty boring compared to classes, of course :)
Right, and you get at the stash with a :: :)
r: module Foo { }; say Foo.WHAT; say Foo::.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 74e183: OUTPUT«Foo()␤Stash()␤»
pmichaud well, a type object should delegate EXPORTALL, then
(to its stash) 20:55
and then Sense.EXPORTALL would do something sane. I think.
jnthn We could also implement that but I'm not enthused by polluting Mu (or Any perhaps) with it.
Granted it'd be constrained to only be callable on type objects.
pmichaud heh
masak Araq: ;) 20:56
pmichaud we already have a ton of all-CAPS stuff in Mu.
seems like it fits naturally there.
jnthn .OHNOES
:)
I guess I can live with it. :)
pmichaud maybe import/export in p6 should be my yapc-eu talk. Then I'd have to actually learn how it currently works.
jnthn And hack on the scary corners that don't quite work yet...and discover the insane bits of S11 ;) 20:57
I mean, uh...that's a good idea! :D
pmichaud oh, I already know where the insane bits of S11 are. Basically everything after "=head Overview" all the way down to the last "=cut"
jnthn *lol* 20:58
OK, well, seems like you're set then :)
pmichaud if I can't come up with better stuff before tomorrow I'll submit that 20:59
"Use'ing Perl 6 modules: Some assembly require'd" 21:00
jnthn *groan* :)
pmichaud (sorry, I just need'ed to write that :-)
(and I missed all of the phaser punning earlier.) 21:01
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lue I wholeheartedly approve of that title. 21:01
masak .oO( you can always pun NEXT time... )
jnthn Yes, it was a groan of delight :)
masak: omg, don't START again :P
lue is unPREpared for this punning
masak jnthn: this is the LAST time, I promise! 21:03
masak .oO( unless you CATCH me at it again ) 21:04
Tene We're really REDOing this? 21:05
pmichaud it will never END
lue It'll KEEP happening for as long as phasers are around.
masak Tene: well, I missed the FIRST time, so...
masak decides to LEAVE it at that 21:06
jnthn
.oO( It's enough to make me go POSTal... )
pmichaud and sadly, there's still no REDO phaser. :-)
(or is there...?)
jnthn Not in S04 :)
pmichaud but we really do need a BLAST phaser in the spec somewhere :-P 21:07
lue nope, I CHECKed.
supernovus Thanks for the info. Maybe this weekend I'll whip up the first version of an easy to use MVC web app framework in Perl 6.
jnthn supernovus++
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tadzik hahahahahahaha 21:11
www.pub-przejscie.pl/wp-content/gal...c_0145.jpg -- this is how Warsaw.pm spends its meetings :D
apparently, I agreed for the pub owners to publish pictures from the karaoke session...
pmichaud tadzik: you look a little green up there :-) 21:12
masak :P 21:13
tadzik hehe, for some reason, yeah
curious
masak phenny: en pl "I am a little green at this."?
phenny masak: "Jestemtrochę zielony w tym." (en to pl, translate.google.com)
masak oh, literal translation.
tadzik yeah, but it works
"być zielonym" also means "to be an amateur"
masak ah, so you were aware of the pun. I wasn't sure. :) 21:14
anyway, the picture is inspiring.
tadzik HEAR ME ROAR
pmichaud r: say 1**Inf
p6eval rakudo 74e183: OUTPUT«1␤»
jnthn Yeah, I totally think we should have a karaoke session at YAPC::EU!
:P
tadzik oh yes! 21:15
Lightning Song session
jnthn
.oO( oh my, what have I done... )
tadzik why, you're the first one to sing
masak it's not a bad idea.
tadzik I thought you know
jnthn can't sing :P
masak can :)
jnthn masak volunteered to go first :)
tadzik can sing, but not anyone can listen to this
masak though I hear 卡拉OK doesn't require the ability to sing well. 21:16
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jnthn tadzik: Just sing nayn cat song :) 21:17
tadzik :D
I could possibly play that one
no, I can sing quite a few things
see github.com/tadzik/tabs
it's just that not everyone is resistent to my singing :P 21:18
masak I think your voice has potential, tadzik. 21:19
tadzik I may need some voice-fu 21:20
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masak then it's not 卡拉OK :) 21:21
pmichaud I get quite a few interesting spectest fails when compiling with Strawberry 5.16
jnthn Is that first character meaning "dancing with tongue stuck out"?
pmichaud: Which ones, ooc? 21:22
pmichaud r: say 1**Inf 21:23
p6eval rakudo 74e183: OUTPUT«1␤»
pmichaud that gives me NaN
jnthn > say 1 ** Inf
1
pmichaud (because that's what the underlying math library does, undoubtedly, and Parrot just passes it through)
n: say 1**Inf
p6eval niecza v19-13-g442e075: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
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tadzik phenny: "卡拉"? 21:24
phenny tadzik: "Carla" (zh-CN to en, translate.google.com)
jnthn phenny: "卡"?
phenny jnthn: "Card" (zh-CN to en, translate.google.com)
jnthn phenny: "拉"?
phenny jnthn: "Pull" (zh-CN to en, translate.google.com)
sorear phenny: "Jacques"?
phenny sorear: "Jacques" (fr to en, translate.google.com)
pmichaud jnthn: there are also some filestate-related fails, and a couple of unicode fails
jnthn pmichaud: I don't think the file related ones are gcc specific 21:25
pmichaud: I get some of that at the moment with MSVC too
pmichaud jnthn: okay.
jnthn Unicode fails - I thought we'd triage'd all that.
pmichaud well, it may be from the version.t stuff I added yesterday 21:26
masak tadzik: ka-la-O-K 21:27
karaoke.
phenny: "卡拉OK"? 21:28
phenny masak: "Kara OK" (zh-CN to en, translate.google.com)
jnthn daaligt :)
pmichaud r: say Version.new('2012.06alpha1beta4'); # :-P
p6eval rakudo 74e183: OUTPUT«v2012.6.alpha.1.beta.4␤»
masak .oO( Kära Åke... )
jnthn: no, that's what it's called in .cn
jnthn masak: I guessed. :) 21:29
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tadzik haha 21:31
masak 哈哈
crab2313 phenny: "哈哈"? 21:33
phenny crab2313: "I" (zh-CN to en, translate.google.com)
crab2313 phenny: "呵呵"? 21:34
phenny crab2313: "I" (zh-CN to en, translate.google.com)
masak strange translations. those mean "ha ha" and "he he", respectively. 21:37
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diakopter masak: Coleoid was inquiring about roast commit bit 21:48
pmichaud whats the github id ? 21:50
Coleoid My github username is also Coleoid, is that what you're asking? 21:51
pmichaud yes.
you now have a commit bit to roast, as well as most of the other perl6/* repositories 21:52
welcome aboard!
21:52 Woodi left
Coleoid Thanks! 21:53
pmichaud did you see the latest notes on building with strawberry, ooc? 21:54
we may want to bump Rakudo's NQP_REVISION
on my systems, perl Configure.pl --gen-nqp=master --gen-parrot now works 21:55
(the --gen-nqp option won't be necessary when we bump NQP_REVISION)
afk, fetching dinner
Coleoid So then changes to the tests go in roast, not mu or any other location? 21:56
masak right.
Coleoid I missed the strawberry fixing. I was afraid it'd be a slow loop through the dyncall project dev process... 21:57
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pmichaud Coleoid: the README file in roast is fairly helpful. :) github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/README 22:13
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benabik Coleoid: People here seem rather unafraid of working out their own fixes and waiting to see if dyncall wants to pick up the fix. 22:14
masak lol I blougged! \o/ strangelyconsistent.org/blog/july-1...orm-things 22:23
gfldex masak++ # for applied magic 22:25
masak I feel I'm warming to this month's blogging. 22:26
oh, and #perl6. you'll really like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraprosdokian
jnthn jnthn suggested WAT? :P
masak .oO( so I put a surprised jnthn in your surprised jnthn ) 22:27
jnthn is, as usual, full of surprises :P 22:28
masak knowing this new term "paraprosdokian", it's really easy to re-classify moritz++' "and 9 other types" as a paraprosdokian autopun.
Coleoid I got a laugh out of it--and out of explaining it to my boy.
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diakopter can you have a car full of water? 22:28
jnthn I can sea how that'd happen.
masak diakopter: hm, I will try.
pmichaud masak++ # this method of posting and linking to commits is incredibly effective. 22:29
diakopter masak: typo piedestal
masak diakopter: will fix; thanks. 22:30
diakopter: yes, I could put water from the helmet into the car in last year's game.
The car contains: A rope. Some water.
(but with newlines and indentation)
Coleoid benabik: That's dandy for progress! I hope they take the fix. 22:31
afk, spend time with the boy before bedtime...
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masak 'night, #perl6 22:36
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colomon Coleoid++ 23:46

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