»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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rjbs What a day! Cheer me up, #perl6! What's new? 00:44
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arnsholt phenny: tell masak Friday works for me 01:01
phenny arnsholt: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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arnsholt phenny: tell jnthn Friday work for you? Thursday's bad for masak 01:15
phenny arnsholt: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
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[Coke] r: new.WHAT 01:38
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&new' called (line 1)␤»
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diakopter r: say (&new).WHAT 01:45
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
diakopter r: say (&ne).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
diakopter r: say (&booger).WHAT
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
diakopter eh
sorear r: say &booger 01:46
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
[Coke] rjbs: there's a new Star Wars movie coming out in 2015. 01:52
rjbs: I am provisionally cheered.
rjbs I am curious as to what it will be. 01:53
sorear VII
[Coke] sorear: I think he was going slightly deeper. 01:54
rjbs Yeah. What's the plot?
I'm hoping it will be a romantic comedy taking place in a suburb moon of Coruscant. 01:55
sorear "last I heard (which was about 15 years ago) it's going to involve Luke's son" 01:56
[Coke] rjbs: seth green is working on a comedy set on coruscant, I believe. 01:58
rjbs starring action figures? 01:59
[Coke] rjbs: www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/24/fir...ted-series 02:00
rjbs oh yeah, heard about that
[Coke] ah, I lied about the setting. 02:01
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[Coke] jnthn: in nqp, how can i tell if something is a sixmodelobject? 02:21
(hace to split use of clone && repr_clone) :( 02:22
*have
sorear nqp: 5 + pir::new('FixedPMCArray')
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op add_n: ResizableStringArray: Can't shift from an empty array!␤current instr.: '' pc 43971 (src/stage2/QAST.pir:15393) (src/stage2/QAST.nqp:2331)␤»
sorear nqp: 5 + pir::getinterp__p()
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op add_n: Cannot infer type from ''␤current instr.: '' pc 43971 (src/stage2/QAST.pir:15393) (src/stage2/QAST.nqp:2331)␤»
sorear nqp: 5 + pir::getinterp__P() 02:23
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«get_number() not implemented in class 'ParrotInterpreter'␤current instr.: '' pc 45 ((file unknown):154158703) (/tmp/nKXoJLKlm0:1)␤»
sorear nqp: pir::getinterp__P().moo
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Method 'moo' not found for invocant of class 'ParrotInterpreter'␤current instr.: '' pc 48 ((file unknown):38) (/tmp/Em44dtINkc:1)␤»
sorear nqp: pir::getinterp__P().WHAT
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Can only use get_what on a SixModelObject␤current instr.: '' pc 42 ((file unknown):38) (/tmp/2k6E8q3T4u:1)␤»
sorear nqp: say(pir::isa(pir::getinterp__P(),'SixModelObject'))
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op call: ResizableStringArray: Can't shift from an empty array!␤current instr.: '' pc 43971 (src/stage2/QAST.pir:15393) (src/stage2/QAST.nqp:2331)␤»
sorear nqp: say(pir::isa__IPS(pir::getinterp__P(),'SixModelObject'))
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«0␤»
sorear nqp: say(pir::isa__IPS(5,'SixModelObject')) 02:24
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«0␤»
sorear nqp: say(pir::gettype__SP(5))
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected SREG, expecting '(' ('$S5001')␤ in file '(file unknown)' line 38␤␤»
sorear nqp: say(pir::typeof__SP(5)) 02:25
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Integer␤»
sorear nqp: my $x = 5; say(pir::typeof__SP($x))
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Assignment ("=") not supported in NQP, use ":=" instead at line 2, near " 5; say(pi"␤current instr.: 'panic' pc 13089 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:4619) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:324)␤»
sorear nqp: my $x := 5; say(pir::typeof__SP($x))
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Integer␤»
sorear nqp: 5.WHAT
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Can only use get_what on a SixModelObject␤current instr.: '' pc 43 ((file unknown):38) (/tmp/0j7pSKMD9K:1)␤»
sorear nqp: [].WHAT
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Can only use get_what on a SixModelObject␤current instr.: '' pc 43 ((file unknown):38) (/tmp/6LXEyWDw0C:1)␤»
sorear nqp: say(pir::isa__IPS(NQPMu,'SixModelObject')) 02:26
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«1␤»
sorear nqp: say(pir::isa__IPS(5,'SixModelObject'))
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«0␤»
sorear [Coke]: ^ might work until you get a Real Answer(tm) from jnthn
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japhb o/ 03:29
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diakopter how adorkable 05:44
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jnthn phenny: tell arnsholt yes, Friday works for me also 07:35
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when arnsholt is around.
jnthn: 01:15Z <arnsholt> tell jnthn Friday work for you? Thursday's bad for masak
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diakopter o/ 07:43
sorear o/ 07:44
shachaf sorear: Does Perl 6 have something like lenses and traversals? :-) 07:45
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arnsholt Heh. Preemptive phenny reply 08:30
phenny arnsholt: 07:35Z <jnthn> tell arnsholt yes, Friday works for me also
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tadzik good morning 08:42
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hoelzro is the following valid Perl6? Int sub foo { return 0; } 09:00
I'm wondering if Rakudo just doesn't parse it
tadzik std: Int sub foo { return 0; } 09:01
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p6eval std edd7715: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row (listop with args requires whitespace or parens) at /tmp/mV8FOqTv7E line 1:␤------> Int ⏏sub foo { return 0; }␤ expecting any of:␤ infix or meta-infix␤ infixed function␤ statement modifier loop␤P… 09:01
tadzik yeah, invalid Perl 6
hoelzro what's std? just a parser?
tadzik std: sub foo returns Int { return 0; }
p6eval std edd7715: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
tadzik yes
hoelzro ah, returns Int, that's good to know
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tadzik std: sub foo(--> Int) { return 0; } 09:01
p6eval std edd7715: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 44m␤»
hoelzro is improving vim-perl for Perl 6
tadzik or this
diakopter parser + some semantic analysis/checking 09:02
moritz mostly related to symbol tables
hoelzro std: sub foo ($bar) returns Int { return 0; }
p6eval std edd7715: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ $bar is declared but not used at /tmp/YUKeTqkY9l line 1:␤------> sub foo (⏏$bar) returns Int { return 0; }␤ok 00:00 44m␤»
hoelzro std: sub foo (Int $bar) returns Int { return $bar + 0; } 09:03
p6eval std edd7715: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 46m␤»
hoelzro \o/
diakopter just lifted his Thinkpad by the corner of the front, and heard/felt some cracks 09:05
tadzik use duct tape. It fixed mine
diakopter probably something to do with dropping it on that corner the other day 09:06
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hoelzro my Thinkpad faceplanted into a coffeeshop floor a few months ago 09:06
still running =) 09:07
(although the HDD needed replacement)
tadzik did you replace it with the ssd?
hoelzro no, actually
tadzik do consider it next time, it's awesome :) 09:08
hoelzro I'm thinking of moving my desktop to an SSD when I move back to the US, though
I like the extra space of a conventional drive ;)
diakopter has the ssd, and is running very low on space
clearly $work's IT can't afford the big ssds 09:09
tadzik uh-oh 09:11
rakudo/Q just started swapping on my ssd
do not want
bonsaikitten hoelzro: use a SSD as cache for a harddisk
that way you get a good compromise of both
hoelzro bonsaikitten: in a laptop, though?
bonsaikitten hoelzro: hybrid drives ... but yeah, laptop is a bit cramped 09:12
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tadzik jnthn, jnthn 09:13
hoelzro is there a way I could run std on my local machine, so I don't need to come here and spam the channel with questionable Perl6? ;) 09:15
tadzik you can always /query p6eval
diakopter well, you can msg p6eval directly
hoelzro fair enough =)
tadzik but yes, I think you can install viv locally
diakopter git checkout it from perl6/std
make
(doesn't work on windows at all) 09:16
(cygwin included - I tried for hours)
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muixirt hi 09:17
diakopter hi
muixirt does anyone know why rakudo star for windows downloads spiked?
diakopter linked from twitter? dunno 09:18
jnthn tadzik, tadzik! 09:20
tadzik jnthn: are you aware of the memory problem of rakudo/Q?
I mean, 4G not being enough to build it anymore
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jnthn tadzik: Whoa...really? :/ 09:21
kresike hello all you happy perl6 people
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tadzik jnthn: yep, I'm afraid so :( 09:21
my laptop didn't make it
jnthn Odd...on my box it builds no slower than nom
tadzik no slower, maybe :)
jnthn then, it's 16 GB of RAM 09:22
tadzik I originally doubled ram on my laptop to be able to build rakudo in early nom days
not sure if my motherboard can handle more :)
jnthn Well, it aint' gonna merge with a memory usage regression like that... 09:23
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diakopter merge it with fire 09:23
tadzik I wanted to work on Pod formatting codes for moritz, now that there's nibbler and awesomeness generally
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moritz nibbler, quibbler, babble, ... 09:25
jnthn Blame STD for those :P 09:26
I can think of two things it could be
tadzik I'm bisecting Q now, maybe that'll help
jnthn either 1) we're somehow capturing a LOAD more match objects, or 2) the derived quote languages are insanely costly. 09:27
moritz or 3) we have some weird memory corruptions which the moon phases of Q trigger, but nom does not
diakopter or tadzik's machine is finicky
"I don't like star lately" 09:28
brrt anyone got a good git bisect guide?
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hoelzro brrt: like, how to use it, or...? 09:29
brrt i want to figure out why building nqp on darwin-x86-64 segfaults
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brrt so, yes, how to use it 09:29
tadzik well, you git bisect start 09:30
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tadzik then you have to find two revisions, good and bad. You do git bisect good and git bisect bad on another 09:30
then git will automagically jump to various revisions which you then test and classify (git bisect good|bad) 09:31
and at some point it will stop and say "now. This is the commit that broke stuff"
brrt ah
that seems simple enough
moritz it's a binary search
except that you do things like skip commits
which makes it a bit more complex under the hood 09:32
brrt well, with a bit of work i'll figure out the nqp regression then
bonsaikitten brrt: if you have a test case that can be run in a shell script you can automate it 09:33
which means you let the computer do the heavy lifting :)
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moritz somehow I never manged to get that script right 09:34
hoelzro is std *supposed* to spit out funky symbols, like the symbol for the eject button?
moritz though when I tried, it were rather complex cases
hoelzro: yes
hoelzro interesting...
I always thought that was an issue with irssi
hoelzro shrugs
moritz the eject symbol marks the spot where a syntax error was found 09:35
brrt bonsaikitten, the test if any is 'make' 09:37
bonsaikitten brrt: and that gives sane return values 09:38
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brrt fun 09:44
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tadzik jnthn: 467a479850ce70c11b7905e618c6879fc1ee1d22 is the first bad commit 09:46
Switch single quoted strings to new quote parser.
the first one that exceeds 20% of my memory on stage parse and then goes up to 11 09:47
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brrt compiling QAST is a bit slow, though 09:49
but it seems to work
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grondilu rn: proto f($ where * > 0) {*}; multi f($n) { $n*2 }; say f -1; 09:54
p6eval rakudo 34febe, niecza v22-15-gc600005: OUTPUT«-2␤»
brrt i have the evil commit 09:55
grondilu thought multis inherit constraints from their proto
brrt Eliminate use of lexpad_pull cheat. 09:56
moritz grondilu: they should 09:57
grondilu: I think that's a bug
r: proto f(Int $) {*}; multi f($) { 42 }; say f 'foo' 09:58
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«42␤»
jnthn r: proto f(Int $) { {*} }; multi f($) { 42 }; say f 'foo' 09:59
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter ''; expected Int but got Str instead␤ in sub f at /tmp/VLCNua6c9F:1␤ in block at /tmp/VLCNua6c9F:1␤␤»
jnthn ah...onlystar inlining is cheating and getting caught I suspect
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jnthn Above is workaround anyway 10:00
moritz that's probably why my proto-arity branch didn't slow down rakudo :-)
brrt jnthn: I have the commit which breaks nqp on mac systems
its probably a compiler difference now that i think of it 10:01
tadzik moritz: I think custom-lib actually broke panda, to some extend
it no longer finds .panda/state on rebootstrap
jnthn brrt: Oh?
brrt the [Coke] problem 10:02
tadzik or it now wants it to be in ~/.perl6/ somewhere?
jnthn brrt: Ah, same commit he found?
brrt i'll push it on github
i don't know
he also ran git bisect probably :-)
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rindolf Hi all. 10:05
hoelzro ahoy
rindolf hoelzro: what's up?
brrt i'll backlog to see what he found
hoelzro nothing really
I started adding some improvements to the Vim syntax file for Perl 6 last night, thought
*though
I supppose that's significant =) 10:06
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jnthn
.oO( vimprovements )
 10:06
rindolf jnthn: heh.
diakopter is there a cpu or os instruction that says "please don't preempt me during the next X instructions"?
jnthn not afaik 10:07
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diakopter because that would be nice 10:07
jnthn for DoS attacks!
diakopter anything's bad for untrusted code
hoelzro if I want to check Perl 6 code for standard correctness on my local machine, I'm guessing I should just run std/tools/tryfile on the file in question? 10:08
that, or just type some code into STDIN?
moritz sounds right 10:09
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brrt can i post the diff somewhere? 10:10
jnthn gist?
hoelzro that's interesting, because the example I posted earlier is ok according to std/tools/tryfile...
(Int sub foo { return 0; }) 10:11
moritz diakopter: I can imagine that real-time systems might have such a mechanism
brrt good idea
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moritz r: Int sub foo { return 0; } 10:11
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/ejIsTVfn_h:1␤»
moritz r: my Int sub foo { return 0; }
p6eval rakudo 34febe: ( no output )
hoelzro I know Rakudo doesn't parse it
std: Int sub foo { return 0; } 10:12
p6eval std edd7715: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row (listop with args requires whitespace or parens) at /tmp/fntRXARyIH line 1:␤------> Int ⏏sub foo { return 0; }␤ expecting any of:␤ infix or meta-infix␤ infixed function␤ statement modifier loop␤P…
hoelzro and it gets angry here, too...
and I have the same commit
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grondilu rn: multi f($n where * %% 2) { $n }; multi f($n) { &?ROUTINE($n+1) }; say f 3; 10:12
hoelzro I'm running this:
echo 'Int sub foo { return 0; }' | ./tools/tryfile
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p6eval niecza v22-15-gc600005: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 10:13
..rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 89115 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:42750) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9098)␤called from Sub 'infix:<+>' pc 54896 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:26231) (src/gen/CORE.setting:2941)␤called from Sub 'f' pc 272 ((f…
brrt gist.github.com/3986248
grondilu shouldn't &?ROUTINE redispatch a multi?
(if you see what I mean)
jnthn grondilu: No, it means the curernt routine you're in 10:14
grondilu so I need to be explicit and use the actual name of the function?
jnthn Yes
Well
You can get to the proto from &?ROUTINE I guess... 10:15
&?ROUTINE.dispatcher iirc
grondilu rn: multi f($n where * %% 2) { $n }; multi f($n) { &?ROUTINE.dispatcher.($n+1) }; say f 3;
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«4␤»
..niecza v22-15-gc600005: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method dispatcher in type Sub␤ at /tmp/YACv5Qeo7n line 1 (f @ 4) ␤ at /tmp/YACv5Qeo7n line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4215 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting …
grondilu works with rakudo indeed 10:16
hoelzro huh...so my example fails with tloop 10:18
oh, ok, I figured it out 10:20
tryfile doesn't read Perl6 from STDIN if you provide no files; it reads a *list* of files from STDIN which it tests
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moritz hoelzro: now that you mention it, I remember that TimToady++ piped in `git log --stat` from the tests to syntax-check the changed test files, or something 10:25
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hoelzro that makes sense, I guess 10:33
moritz nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctx()); 10:42
I'd expect that to be nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::interp()) 10:43
but then I don't know anything about how nqp::ctxcaller works
jnthn It takes a ctx and gets its caller
So you can walk a chain of contexts
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brrt … any chance there is a zero somewhere there? 10:43
diakopter nqp: say(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctx()).gist) 10:44
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'CallContext'␤current instr.: '' pc 56 ((file unknown):40) (/tmp/Q2E_cLXs94:1)␤»
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jnthn brrt: I'd hope any nulls become proper Parrot nulls... 10:46
diakopter nqp: say(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctxcaller(nqp::ctx())))))))))).gist)
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
diakopter whee.
brrt jnthn: evidence is they don't, in the general case
jnthn Then, Parrot bug...
diakopter jnthn: ^^ <snicker> 10:47
(not snicker at nqp; just snicker at the code that breaks it)
jnthn diakopter: You don't need the .gist 10:48
brrt jnthn: thats not really fair, the ops are implemented in nqp
in c
they can introduce the bug easily
moritz then look at the PIR it's compiled to 10:49
jnthn brrt: What ops?
azawawi hi
jnthn brrt: I'm calling getattribute on a context.
It's not even a dynop that NQP has added.
brrt hmm
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azawawi moritz: is there a way to catch a bad-file-name open and not die from it? :) 10:53
diakopter nqp: my $_ := nqp::ctx(); $_ := nqp::ctxcaller($_) while 1;
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
azawawi moritz: try { open 'bad-file-name'; CATCH { say "Caught!" } } # "caught" and not "Caught\nUnable to open filehandle from path 'bad-file-name'"
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diakopter phenny: tell masak masakbot :) nqp: my $_ := nqp::ctx(); $_ := nqp::ctxcaller($_) while 1; 10:54
phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
moritz azawawi: sure. add a handler for the exception inside the CATCH block
azawawi: if you write a CATCH block yourself, you have to write a 'when' (or a 'default') block that matches the exception 10:57
azawawi: on then is it marked as handled. If not, it's rethrown when you exit the CATCH block
azawawi moritz: got it... thanks 10:58
tadzik do we have a way to capture both stdout of a process and its error code?
brrt i can't see where it is defined
moritz tadzik: maybe with open :p ? 10:59
tadzik I didn't know we have such thing :) 11:00
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tadzik p6prove so far: gist.github.com/3986456 11:01
moritz \o/ 11:02
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dalek nda: fb6ced2 | tadzik++ | bootstrap.pl:
Add a friendly message to bootstrap.pl, now that bin is in a new place
 11:04
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flussence hoelzro++ # fixing vim-perl 11:07
hoelzro flussence: I'm just adding syntax folding; I'm not really fixing anything =P 11:08
but I'm going to work with petdance to get rid of some small issues, maybe
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Woodi diakopter: about cracking Thinkpad: T40's had known bug that base of laptop was too elastic and when you lift it when it is hot then graphic procesor soldering was damaged and you get blue screens from now on... probably seence [TX]60's base is more solid but your cracking sound looks similiar 12:08
afternoon v6 ppls :) 12:09
diakopter yeah it sounded like plastic that was already cracked was splintering 12:11
azawawi moritz: does 'require' in Perl 6 work in the same way that it works in Perl?
moritz azawawi: no 12:12
jnthn Well, it loads things at runtime. The difference is mostly in the import semantics. 12:13
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azawawi jnthn: interesting 12:13
jnthn Which I guess is a pretty huge difference ;)
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diakopter rn: require YourMom 12:13
p6eval niecza v22-15-gc600005: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NotImplementedException: The requested feature is not implemented.␤ at Anon.1.Run.MAIN.C0mainline (Niecza.Frame ) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤ at Niecza.Kernel.RunCore (Niecza.Frame& cur) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>… 12:14
..rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«Could not find YourMom in any of: /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/.perl6/2…
jnthn Your mom is not implemented in Niecza...
moritz azawawi: the difference is that stuff in Perl 6 is imported into the lexpad, which is immutable at run time
azawawi: so you must supply a list of symbols you want to import in the require statement 12:15
azawawi im refactoring things in farabi6... and wanted to delay loading File::Spec until being used in the HTTP actions/routes...
so i deleted those use File::Spec and move require into the HTTP GET action sub...
and now it is not finding '&Spec'...
paste.debian.net/205225/ 12:16
moritz r: require A::B:; say A::B; BEGIN exit; 12:19
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/6RzdGeiT50:1␤»
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azawawi r: sub foo { require File::Spec; say File::Spec.catdir('a','b'); }; foo; 12:22
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«Could not find File::Spec in any of: /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/.perl…
jnthn Try with star
azawawi star: sub foo { require File::Spec; say File::Spec.catdir('a','b'); }; foo;
p6eval star 2012.10: OUTPUT«Could not find File::Spec in any of: /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/4.6.0/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/4.6.0/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/4.6.0/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/.perl6/2012.10/lib, /home/p6eval/.pe…
azawawi rakudo star 2010 is here?
moritz yes 12:23
azawawi i didnt see any announcement about it
cool
moritz rakudo.org/2012/10/29/rakudo-star-2...-released/
r: require A::B; INIT { exit } 12:24
p6eval rakudo 34febe: ( no output )
moritz r: require A::B; say A::B; INIT { exit }
p6eval rakudo 34febe: ( no output )
moritz r: require A::B; say A::B;
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«Could not find A::B in any of: /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/.perl6/2012…
moritz r: require A::B; say A; INIT { exit }
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&A' called (line 1)␤»
moritz azawawi: it seems that require doesn't (yet?) declare the symbol you declare 12:25
azawawi: you can try to look it up at runtime with ::('File::Spec')
azawawi moritz: see this strange behavior paste.debian.net/205228/
moritz: rakudo star 2012.09
diakopter r: exit &YourMom 12:26
p6eval rakudo 34febe: ( no output )
jnthn azawawi: That's not entirely strange
Whther Foo::Bar is a type name or a call is decided at compile time. 12:27
require doesn't import things until runtime
moritz and it doesn't import the type name currently
which might or might not be a bug
jnthn The later lines in the REPL are compiled in the context of the previous scope
moritz anyway, use ::('File::Spec') for now
jnthn: but why doesn't it find sub foo on lines 4/5 ? 12:28
azawawi star: ::('File::Spec') 12:29
p6eval star 2012.10: ( no output )
azawawi star: ::('File::Spec')
p6eval star 2012.10: ( no output )
diakopter r: say say::~say
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«␤␤TrueTrue␤»
azawawi what about this one paste.debian.net/205229/ ? 12:30
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moritz azawawi: well, you didn't require File::Spec, did you? 12:30
anyway, it shouldn't give the second error message 12:31
azawawi moritz: true but why the different error message on the second one
moritz bug
azawawi maybe it is the hidden AI inside perl6 :)
moritz related to serialization, probably 12:32
azawawi paste.debian.net/205230/ # same bug apparently
azawawi installs rakudo star 2012.10 12:33
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[Coke] sorear++ # works. 12:38
Seems ugly, but I figure I'll go for functional and have pmichaud and jnthn troll it for ugly after. 12:39
blogs.perl.org/users/leo_susanto/20...ction.html Nice article about perl GC. 12:40
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azawawi is there a plan to bundle an editor with rakudo star? hint: farabi6? 12:55
Some languages come with a built-in editor.. why not perl6? 12:57
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[Coke] I would probably not use it myself, but seems potentially useful 13:14
moritz azawawi: what exactly is farabi6?
azawawi moritz: github.com/azawawi/farabi6/blob/ma.../README.md 13:15
moritz: basically im using a web-based interface with a perl 6 backend 13:16
PerlJam azawawi: I don't think "explode in your face" jibes with Rakudo Star :)
azawawi PerlJam: :)
moritz: basically i want to integrate perl6 tools here and there with farabi6 13:20
moritz: and make it easier to write Perl 6
moritz: basically an IDE in a browser... but you control the server... 13:21
hoelzro starts to install Farabi
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spider-mario (...)/pkg/usr/bin/perl6 --target=pir --output=(...)/pkg/usr/lib/parrot/4.8.0/languages/perl6/lib/SVG/Plot/Pie.pir (...)/pkg/usr/lib/parrot/4.8.0/languages/perl6/lib/SVG/Plot/Pie.pm 13:27
use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context in at src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.pm:256
it happens repeatedly when precompiling modules 13:28
is that normal?
tadzik doesn't occur to me
spider-mario I’m building Rakudo Star 2012.10
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spider-mario that line is “if $setting_name ne 'NULL' {” 13:29
maybe it could be changed to: if defined $setting_name and $setting_name ne 'NULL' { 13:30
could it not?
tadzik I'm interested in why does it happen to be called with an uninitialized value
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flussence `panda install DBIish` doesn't work on my laptop - 37/40 sqlite tests fail. It worked fine on my desktop... 13:59
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moritz flussence: a detailed test output would be very helpful 14:03
flussence I'll get to that just as soon as I figure out where panda puts everything now...
tadzik %*CUSTOM_LIB<site> probably 14:04
I discovered that today too :)
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moritz %*CUSTOM_LIB<site>/panda/source or so 14:07
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[Coke] r: say %*CUSTOM_LIB 14:11
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«("perl" => "/home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6", "vendor" => "/home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/vendor", "site" => "/home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/site", "home" => "/home/p6eval/.per…
[Coke] r: say keys %*CUSTOM_LIB 14:12
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«perl vendor site home␤»
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flussence ok, it segfaults on test #4. 14:27
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flussence dmesg says "perl6[1316] general protection ip:b360251d sp:bfcebfd0 error:0 in libsqlite3.so.0.8.6[b359d000+aa000]", which doesn't tell me much... 14:28
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pmurias jnthn: hi 14:31
moritz flussence: doesn't tell me much either :(
flussence oh wait, I have gdb on here.
flussence uses 14:32
jnthn o/ pmurias
pmurias if I have XYZ::foo();module XYZ {our sub foo() {...}} how can sub foo access lexicals from a block which hasn't been initalised yet? 14:33
can it only access static lexicals till we execute the module block? 14:34
[Coke] jnthn: hio. Is there a better way than pir::isa to see if something is a sixmodelobject?
flussence moritz: still doesn't tell me much, maybe someone can make sense of it: gist.github.com/3987365
jnthn pmurias: Only the static ones make any sense 14:37
moritz flussence: I can't :(
jnthn pmurias: The others will have some type object or similar I guess 14:38
Rakudo probably gets things righter than NQP on this front presently.
PerlJam flussence: Did you try to re-install NativeCall first? 14:40
jnthn flussence: What platform? 14:41
Looks like a 32-bit from the trace...
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jnthn [Coke]: No, there's no 14:45
PerlJam got an email from a Texas land surveyor named "Lawrence Wall" :)
jnthn *not
PerlJam sorry, "Laurence" 14:46
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rjt_ Hello. Is this the best place to come to ask about Rakudo feature implementation progress, and how I can help? 14:49
moritz hello rjt_. Yes, it is.
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rjt_ Ok, good. I'm very interested in shaped arrays, and compact arrays to a lesser extent. I'm also quite capable of helping out design/implementation/whatever wise. 14:50
moritz \o/
jnthn nice :)
rjt_ :-)
moritz I think so far that's been on jnthn's TODO list, which is rather full :-) 14:51
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jnthn Yes, task-stealing from my TODO list is always welcome ;) 14:51
rjt_ I can imagine. :-) So I guess my next question is, how can I help, and where do I start?
(with clever use of comma operator to combine two questions, that is) 14:52
moritz well, you can help by reading the spec, writing tests, designing and implementing the features
that's the easier part :-)
jnthn Devil's in the details, as always. 14:53
moritz aye
so, where to start? Probably by coming up with a design for how to store the stuff
pmurias jnthn: what do all the LexInfo pir things in post_serialize do? setup lexicals for post_serialisation? 14:54
jnthn At the moment, we use Parrot's resizable PMC array for the low-level storage. I've been expecting that we move over to using a 6model representation thingy for that instead. A bit like arnsholt++ did for CArray representation tht we use for native call.
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jnthn pmurias: I'd have to go look at the code to be sure, but I think they just install the static values. 14:55
"this WVal is the static lexical for Foo"
rjt_ Ok, I can focus on that. I'll still need to spend some time coming up to the speed on some of the higher level points, but that shouldn't take too long.
flussence bit distracted for a minute there, sorry 14:56
PerlJam: yes, NativeCall installed fine
pmurias jnthn: static lexical for Foo while executing post_serialisation?
moritz rjt_: may I ask what timezone you're in?
pmurias post_serialisation is just an array of stmts instead of an block, so it setups it's lexical variables that way? 14:57
moritz and if so, what timezone are you in? :-)
jnthn pmurias: No, it's setting up the static lexicals for all the other blocks
That's what the .const thing does - gets the object representing the static lexicals for the block that's named 14:58
pmurias and how does it setup static lexicals for itself?
jnthn doesn't get teh question
pmurias rechecks the ast dump 14:59
jnthn post_deserialization stuff is run once, right after we deserialize objects
pmurias yes
jnthn It doesn't map to any user code
It's just doing some setup work
Before we ever run any real code. 15:00
pmurias but it refers to lexicals
but it doesn't have a QAST::Block to declare those
jnthn It refers to the static lex info
Well, we're on the runtime side of the fence here
QAST::Block is the compile time thing
pmurias post_deserialize contains code that puts a BVal into a package 15:01
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pmurias but the BVal refers to lexicals like $?PACKAGE 15:02
how should I resolve them, find a different place the BVal is used and find it's parrent?
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cfi hi perl6 15:03
pmurias or do the LexInfo pir things set it up?
jnthn You're not actually invoking the block during post_deserialize, just installing a reference to it somewhere. 15:04
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PerlJam cfi: greetings! 15:05
jnthn When compiling a QAST::Blcok you end up with the code itself, and also a hash mapping lexicals to default values.
cfi seq 1 5|perl6 -ne '.say'; error!!Option 'e' in grouped options '-ne' needs a value, but does not have one
what's the value?
jnthn The LexInfo is that hash 15:06
to a first approximation
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PerlJam cfi: that looks like a bug to me, but you want: seq 1 5 | perl6 -n -e '.say' 15:07
cfi PerlJam: thanks! we can't use -ne just like perl 5anymore? 15:08
geekosaur see "that looks like a bug" 15:09
jnthn It probably should work with -ne eventually also.
moritz I thought I had fixed that
cfi PerlJam: thanks! that's a big bug.
moritz I'd call it a small bug :-) 15:10
cfi moritz: I can't do that. -ne
moritz it's in nqp/src/HLL/CommandLine.pm 15:12
cfi moritz: hope you can fix that. 15:13
moritz oh
it works if you don't add a space between the -e and the '
jnthn moritz: the -ne ? 15:14
pmurias jnthn: to make the question clearer: in line 1110 of paste.ubuntu.com/1321001/ how do I resolve $?PACKAGE?
moritz jnthn: yes
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cfi moritz: you are right.but looks like a bug. 15:17
thanks! all perl6
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PerlJam moritz: too much $i in that code :) 15:18
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moritz PerlJam: yes, my local patch renames one of them :-) 15:18
jnthn pmurias: Oh, I think this dump may be misleading... 15:19
pmurias: A BVal contains a reference to a QAST::Block somewhere else in the tree
pmurias: It's not that the block is lexically inside of deserialize. It's elsewhere, we're just referring to it.
I can understand why you're confused now :) 15:20
pmurias so i should just take the static lexicals from the other place 15:21
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jnthn Yes. I guess you have a table somewhere of cuuid to whatever you turn a QAST::Block in to. 15:23
So you'd compile it to a lookup into there
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jnthn (though maybe you have another table for the static lexicals too...) 15:24
pmurias: Are you working on deserializing the binary blob over in JavaScript too, ooc? 15:25
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cfi rn:my Int @a = 'a', 'b';say @a; 15:26
rn: my Int @a = 'a', 'b';say @a;
p6eval rakudo 34febe, niecza v22-15-gc600005: OUTPUT«a b␤»
jnthn cfi: That's a known not implemented thing just yet. 15:27
cfi jnthn: thanks.
jnthn On the todo list. Like many things :)
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pmurias jnthn: binary blob? I'm serialising object myself rather the using the serializer 15:39
jnthn: by binary blob you mean what the serializer turns objects into? 15:42
jnthn pmurias: Yes.
pmurias: I don't think re-inventing that is desirable.
I specified the format in hope of that ;-)
pmurias I'll look into that 15:43
jnthn (in docs in nqp repo)
Anyway, up to you really. But my gut feeling is that re-inventing this bit will make problems later.
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pmurias currently I serialising a few types of things in an slightly adhock manner 15:50
jnthn: I think if I'll serialize a similiar set of info but don't use (the exact) binary format it won't cause much trouble 15:51
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flussence I'm out of ideas with this sqlite thing... tried downgrading sqlite to the previous version, other nativecall stuff seems to work fine... I'm just gonna ignore it and hope the other DBDs work 15:55
kresike bye folks 15:58
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hoelzro flussence: what's the nature of the test failures? 15:59
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moritz hoelzro: flussence posted a gist URL in the backlog 16:07
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hoelzro ah, serves me right for half-assing things ;) 16:09
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jnthn decommute, bbl 16:11
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jnthn back 16:46
japhb o/ 16:47
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jnthn hi jvalphb 16:48
pmurias: It's more that I'm not sure to what degree you can get at all the things it puts into the serialization (like, REPR data) though I guess it can be recreated... 16:50
japhb chuckles at 'jvalphb' 16:51
(homemade pumpkin oat bread)++
jnthn ooh :) 16:52
arnsholt o/ 16:53
japhb Good *, arnsholt 16:56
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colomon \o 17:06
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jnthn tadzik: Wow...rakudo/Q is indeed rather into RAM... 17:12
5.5GB :D
TimToady can you figure out whether it's the nibbler or the derivation that is leaking? 17:13
I assume you did the deletes in nibbler that STD does... 17:14
(though my gut tells me this has to be something major going wrong on the order of rederiving languages)
jnthn TimToady: I pondered it on the train home and I think it may be never.
TimToady it? 17:15
jnthn TimToady: The memory use
er
*may be neither
:)
TimToady that...makes a bit more sense :)
jnthn Long day... :)
Cursor initialization transcodes things to fixed width.
I fixed a bug where LANG was confusing orig (the original thing) and target (what it actually scans) 17:16
And it was re-transcoding every time we switched langauge
TimToady that might well do it
esp since STD punts and keep orig in a global 17:17
jnthn The size of the setting multiplied out for every single quote construct would add up quite a bit, I imagine. 17:18
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TimToady should try keeping orig in a high-level cursor, and providing access via a method, to see what the performance would be... 17:22
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jnthn Yes, fixing that makes a huge difference :) 17:25
TimToady whew! 17:27
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azawawi hi #perl6 17:28
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dalek kudo/Q: fb38835 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
Fix nibble to also pass on target.
 17:34
p: acae25d | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
LANG passes on target and orig.

This avoids re-transcoding every single time we switch language, and fixes the memory use regression in rakudo/Q.
p: 579f3d0 | jnthn++ | src/6model/knowhow_bootstrapper.c:
Give KnowHOW a type check cache.
jnthn phenny: tell tadzik that memory issue in Q is gone (need latest NQP too).
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when tadzik is around.
jnthn tadzik++ # noticing :)
TimToady: Actually we're not doing the :delete's yet, so I expect there's a win to be had from that too. 17:36
TimToady tadzik++ # not committing suicide :)
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TimToady maybe the [*-1] could be .pop 17:36
jnthn The thing that this is replacing wasn't either, mind...
I think NQP and STD must have the match/cursor relationship a little different. 17:37
Well, factored a little different.
The cursor just keeps a stack of cursors to hand 17:38
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jnthn And they're arranged into the right "shape" when we make the match object 17:38
Thus elimiating stuff from the match object doesn't throw away the various cursors.
Maybe that's true in STD also though...
hmmm 17:39
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jnthn spots a potential improvement... 17:40
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jnthn Hm, not so easy. :) 17:57
azawawi jnthn: any update on the web-based perl6-debug api? 18:00
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jnthn azawawi: My tuit supply is a bit tight at the moment, and I'd like to use the handful I have to try and get the quote stuff I'm working on done. So, won't get to it for a little bit yet. 18:03
azawawi jnthn++
dalek kudo/Q: 1065be2 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
Keep less matches around from nibbler.

Different (simpler ;-)) factoring than STD, but same win.		 18:07
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masak lol hi! #perl6! I again come to here. 18:53
phenny masak: 01:01Z <arnsholt> tell masak Friday works for me
masak: 10:54Z <diakopter> tell masak masakbot :) nqp: my $_ := nqp::ctx(); $_ := nqp::ctxcaller($_) while 1;
masak nqp: my $_ := nqp::ctx(); $_ := nqp::ctxcaller($_) while 1;
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
masak woo
but I don't know enough about nqp failure modes to know if this is fine or not. 18:54
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masak maybe we are OK with SEGVs in NQP-land? 18:54
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azawawi farabi6 new UI... incoming... :) 19:00
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sorear masak! 19:03
masak sorear! \o/ 19:04
masak has done three days of teaching and is now rewarding himself with... Angband
azawawi feather.perl6.nl:3030/ # New farabi6 UI... Hopefully the server will stay up :)
masak azawawi++ 19:05
azawawi masak: try "Syntax Check (F6)" 19:06
masak: it uses std's
masak cool. 19:07
it looks really sleek.
azawawi twitter bootstrap... 19:08
masak oho.
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masak hm, seems I've forgotten most keybindings from the roguelike keyset... :) 19:11
azawawi thinks, 'perl6-debug menu, integrate rakudo/niecza, add a REPL' and we have a winner here :) 19:12
masak azawawi: wow. yes.
azawawi and we then drop it to feather3... and keep restarting it :) 19:13
masak: please let know if you have any cool ideas 19:16
azawawi sleepy
masak :)
azawawi sleep &
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jnthn o/ masak 19:21
masak jnthn! \o/
jnthn masak: The segfault isn't good
masak jnthn: I'm a level-2 warrior with a broad sword.
jnthn masak: I think it's reproducable with pure PIR, though...
Need to be sure of that. 19:22
masak submits it to the perl6/nqp issue queue 19:27
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arnsholt jnthn, masak: Since Friday seems to work for both of you, I'll see you then =) 20:03
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masak arnsholt: looking forward to it! 20:14
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jnthn arnsholt: Nice. In Malmo? 20:31
jnthn guesses evening... 20:32
Friday is quite flexible for me so whatever can work :)
masak Friday is a half day, too :)
jnthn Oh. :) 20:33
Oh, I know that
That's why tomorrow is le stress.
arnsholt Yeah, I'll try to figure out train times and such tomorrow 20:34
Meeting up at the station (or somewhere nearby) work for you? =) 20:35
Why's Friday half day, BTW?
masak arnsholt: allhelgona
jnthn
.oO( all hel gona break lose... )
 20:36
*oose
arnsholt Oh, right
jnthn er, *loose
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masak .oO( when it comes to spelling, you loose ) 20:36
arnsholt *giggle* 20:37
sorear what is allhelgona? 20:39
masak phenny: sv en "allhelgona"?
phenny masak: "All Saints" (sv to en, translate.google.com)
arnsholt All hallow's eve
masak I associate it with lighting a candle lantern at some loved one's grave. 20:40
flussence
.oO( I usually associate it with "it's cold and dark outside now when I leave the office"... )
 20:42
PerlJam wishes it were cooler outside.
jnthn Same 20:43
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jnthn (Then the weekend's boring rain would be pretty snow) 20:44
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moritz rain is boring, yes 21:01
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masak .oO( that's why some rocks have holes ) 21:05
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jnthn stones masak 21:08
moritz masak is now stoned.
flussence jnthn's lost his marbles 21:09
masak jnthn: ow!
sjn you guys rock!
masak is not giving back those pebbles to jnthn
Tene man, I wish it would rain here
jnthn hopes we won't be charged with basalt
sjn jnthn: I gravel before your pun-ability 21:11
jnthn is, once again, karst as a punster 21:12
sjn those are true tailings, they are! 21:13
[Coke] Takes real grit to put up with all these puns. 21:14
sjn boulder get over the fact you're a punster, jnthn
jnthn I'm sure I shale
masak your joking about this serious matter is not coal. 21:15
tadzik jnthn++ #savior!
phenny tadzik: 17:34Z <jnthn> tell tadzik that memory issue in Q is gone (need latest NQP too).
tadzik updates ALL THE THINGS 21:16
I can work on Q tomorrow then :)
masak maybe we should just wipe the slate and move on.
sjn jnthn: ore you doubting yourself? I think you should crust in your insticts about this. :)
masak .oO( thought your mileage may variolite )
jnthn Anyone want to chalk up some more puns? :D 21:17
tadzik my head asplodes by now
jnthn Just don't fall over; it's suck if your asphalt sore... 21:18
*it'd
sjn sand that would hurt a lot, believe me! :) 21:21
masak .oO( no need to rub it in ) 21:22
sjn masak: earth you not happy with our puns? :)
masak they are dirt to me. 21:24
except the slightly moist ones, which are mud to me.
tadzik stahp
masak :P
tadzik I'm not capable of catching up now :)
sjn masak: I'm sure hummus be happy with *some* of the puns! 21:25
masak sjn: ...no sense of hummur...
skids I think we have finished mining this vein of conversation.
masak we've hit rock bottom.
jnthn Not my fault.
masak *groan* 21:26
sjn hehehe
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skids There had to be a nugget eventually. 21:26
masak "nugget". could be a nice name for a programming language. 21:28
jnthn "Tastes like chicken"
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mdhafen Hello 21:41
tadzik hello 21:42
mdhafen I'm looking for help with perl6 syntax. Anyway game?
jnthn Most likely :) 21:43
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mdhafen ok then. What I'm trying to do is a hash of hashes. In perl5 I could do '%h = ( 1 => { name => 'horse', size => 12 }, 2 => {name => 'dog', size => 5 } )' How do I do that in Perl6? 21:44
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flussence r: my %h = ( 1 => { name => 'horse', size => 12 }, 2 => {name => 'dog', size => 5 } ); say %h.perl 21:45
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«("1" => {"name" => "horse", "size" => 12}, "2" => {"name" => "dog", "size" => 5}).hash␤»
jnthn Just like that :) 21:46
TimToady don't need the parens though
jnthn r: my %h = 1 => { name => 'horse', size => 12 }, 2 => {name => 'dog', size => 5 }; say %h.perl # hah, TimToady++ beat me to it :)
p6eval rakudo 34febe: OUTPUT«("1" => {"name" => "horse", "size" => 12}, "2" => {"name" => "dog", "size" => 5}).hash␤»
mdhafen I'll try it. 21:47
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mdhafen hmm, maybe my problem was actually something else. figures. I had life-span => 6x365, looking at it that is obviously wrong. 21:49
yeah, I fixed those statements and the error is gone. Thanks for the help. 21:54
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masak cool, someone we don't know is using Perl 6 :P 22:16
diakopter it escaped irc?
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jnthn We already have a darkpan... :P 22:17
diakopter hopefully it won't be a flash in the pan
masak flashes are seldom dark. 22:18
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masak 'night, #perl6 22:45
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japhb pmichaud, It was finally the Lego robotics class in which they started teaching the visual programming language. It's ... a little odd to work in, but not (quite) as horrid as I was afraid. I can understand why your son really wanted to just program in text, though. :-) 23:18
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jnthn sleep & 23:24
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