»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
masak 'night, #perl6 00:14
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lue good knight, masak o/ 00:18
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rurban_ I've got a npq thinko whats wrong here? gist.github.com/4221616 03:42
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moritz rurban_: is that parrot's nqp or the separate nqp? 03:48
nqp: my %config := pir::getinterp__P()[pir::const::IGLOBALS_CONFIG_HASH]; 03:49
p6eval nqp: ( no output )
moritz rurban_: parrot's NQP doesn't know about pir::const::
rurban_ thats parrot-nap but I want to add an icu check to both
moritz resleep&
rurban_ oh, the const, thanks
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dalek rl6-bench: 7b25e64 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
Extract microbenchmark list out of timeall into new microbenchmarks.pl file
 04:07
rl6-bench: 3353a9e | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | timeall:
Expand explanation of simple and complex tasks in timeall docs
rl6-bench: 1ca70d1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (3 files):
Add --list-variants option to timeall to list all known compiler variants; document that timeall can select only individual variants to benchmark; support a --variants option to the time command in bench to select which variants timeall should benchmark
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dalek rl6-bench: 53b90a4 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | TODO:
Miscellaneous TODO maintenance
 04:13
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: c16adc3 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/prob-grondilu.pl:
[rosalind] PROB
 05:04
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: d224698 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/pper-grondilu.pl:
[rosalind] PPER
 05:24
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dalek rl6-bench: 2a3c51b | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | TODO:
Expand out TODO list for perl6/bench-scripts import, so I can do them piecemeal
 05:36
rl6-bench: 317447f | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
Add options to allow listing all known test names, and to enable only a subset of the tests
rl6-bench: 079464a | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | TODO:
Completed TODO bit
 05:38
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: fc32a50 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/tran-grondilu.pl:
[rosalind] TRAN
 06:14
grondilu_ rn: say all(<A G>) eq any(<A G>); 06:16
p6eval niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«all(any(Bool::True, Bool::False), any(Bool::False, Bool::True))␤» 06:17
..rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«all(any(True, False), any(False, True))␤»
grondilu_ rn: say so all(<A G>) eq any(<A G>);
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤»
grondilu_ rn: say so any(<A G>) eq all(<A G>);
p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«False␤»
..niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤»
grondilu_ That could be an interesting use case of non commutativity for boolean operators with junctions 06:18
From rosalind.info/problems/tran: 06:19
« A transition substitutes one purine for another (A↔G) or one pyrimidine for another (C↔T) »
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grondilu_ rn: sub is-a-transition($a, $b) { say $a ne $b and ($a & $b eq any <A G> or $a & $b eq any <C T>) }; say "that's a transition" if is-a-transition <C T>; 06:22
p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤ in sub is-a-transition at /tmp/tSCsSTqaV6:1␤ in block at /tmp/tSCsSTqaV6:1␤␤»
..niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: No value for parameter '$b' in 'is-a-transition'␤ at /tmp/BaBQ_lqspR line 0 (is-a-transition @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/BaBQ_lqspR line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4208 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib…
grondilu_ rn: sub is-a-transition($a, $b) { say $a ne $b and ($a & $b eq any <A G> or $a & $b eq any <C T>) }; say "that's a transition" if is-a-transition |<C T>;
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤that's a transition␤»
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: d282fbb | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/tran-grondilu.pl:
[rosalind] TRAN (simpler version)
 06:27
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grondilu_ rn: sub infix:<m*> { reduce $^a % 10 * $^b }; say ([\m*] 1 .. *)[^10]; 07:45
p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '&with'; expected Callable but got Int instead␤ in sub reduce at src/gen/CORE.setting:6083␤ in sub infix:<m*> at /tmp/rTX2_PSseI:1␤ in block at src/gen/CORE.setting:12408␤ in sub coro at src/gen/CORE.setting:5630␤ in me…
..niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1287 (warn @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 294 (Any.Numeric @ 8) ␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /tmp/6y6_H8Tq4k line 1 (infix:<…
grondilu_ rn: sub infix:<m*> { $^a % 10 * $^b }; say ([\m*] 1 .. *)[^10];
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«1 2 6 24 20 0 0 0 0 0␤»
grondilu_ oh yeah, my bad 07:46
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moritz \o morning 07:51
sorear o/ moritz 07:52
grondilu_ isn't there a builtin for combination? 07:59
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grondilu r: say comb 2, 3; 08:00
p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'comb' will never work with argument types (Int, Int) (line 1)␤ Expected any of:␤ :(Regex $matcher, Cool $input, $limit = { ... })␤»
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moritz grondilu: what do you want to combine? 08:04
r: say ^2 X~ ^3 08:05
p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«00 01 02 10 11 12␤»
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FROGGS morning 08:20
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tadzik good morning 08:25
jnthn morning 08:26
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bbkr_ good morning 08:44
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kresike hello all you happy perl6 people 08:54
grondilu moritz: I meant binomial coefficient 08:57
dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 301dfa9 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/aspc-grondilu.pl:
[rosaling] ASPC
moritz grondilu: that's not built-in 08:58
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 85f27f2 | (L. Grondin)++ | rosalind/aspc-grondilu.pl:
[rosalind] ASPC, slightly shorter
 09:00
jnthn Pro Tip: if explaining a bug fix to somebody by walking through a diff, and you're in a dev shop where people aren't used to looking a textual diffs, make sure they actually know that's what it is! 09:03
*at
huf :))))
jnthn The things one takes for granted... :) 09:04
Krunch "a dev shop where people aren't used to looking a textual diffs"
wat?
jnthn Yes. I know. :(
Krunch get out of here, it's still time 09:05
jnthn .Net shop using TFS, which is openly hostile to providing such things
Krunch s/h/th/
jnthn So I shove git in front of it so I can actually get useful stuff done.
Like, code review.
huf TFS? the only thing i can expand that to is not .. polite 09:06
jnthn How the heck Microsoft thought making it so hard to get an easy to review diff out rather than having to click around to look at it one file at a time, I don't know...
That F**king System^W^W^WTeam Foundation System
huf ah.
jnthn I hate it.
huf i'll add it to the "run if you see it" list 09:07
jnthn Yes, do
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bonsaikitten isn't any product from Microsoft automatically tagged like that? 09:19
(and their best acronym by far was WIX, which translates roughly as WANK from german) 09:20
tadzik well, C# is quite nice
jnthn Aye. The Visual Studio debugger is also very nice 09:21
tadzik yeah, it's not bad 09:22
I only touched it a little during my Windows Forms uni project
didn't have time to learn it properly, so I did the same thing that I did with Java
bonsaikitten tadzik: java++ ... what you'd expect with a decade of experience from java 09:23
tadzik well, when I had to write a Java project I just wrote C++ untill it stopped compiling, then I looked stuff up 09:24
bonsaikitten I don't like the family of java-ish languages, they have so much redundancy in their redundant redundancy
tadzik now I was writing Java, and when it was not working I was looking for the C# way ;)
but this one has first-class functions, so it's the most pleasant one 09:25
jnthn I once considered C# "just another Java", but then they added type inference and lambdas and lazily evaluated pipelines, then suddenly it was a lot more pleasant. 09:28
bonsaikitten for me it's still a no-go because it doesn't run on any of the platforms I support 09:31
jnthn That's fair enough. 09:32
grondilu bonsaikitten: same here 09:34
bonsaikitten amusingly I still need java and windows ... for taxes 09:35
someone didn't get the memo, I guess?
jnthn C# just happens to be really popular here in Sweden. Most of the dev teams I work with at various companies use it. 09:42
And not because I explicitly seek it out. Typically I'm there to deal with architecture level issues.
But knowing the implementation langauge they're using well can't hurt. :) 09:43
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bonsaikitten I've mostly been exposed to people trying to use php 09:47
and lately ruby, but that's self-correcting
sorear jnthn: $dayjob just assigned me to a C# project :D 09:50
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FROGGS is forced to do Visual Basic for Applications from time to time -.- 09:51
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jnthn sorear: nice :) 09:58
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moritz has a new PC at $work 10:09
old one was single core, 4GB mem
new: quad core, 8GB RAM
jnthn Better. :)
moritz indeed :-)
much better suited for rakudo spectests in its idle time :-)
jnthn ;-) 10:10
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grondilu Any one would like to help debugging this newick parser? gist.github.com/4223474 10:16
I get nothing and I expected the two lines ending in ';' to be outputed 10:17
dalek ecs: 568fe53 | (Konrad Borowski)++ | S04-control.pod:
Use .is-prime.

Today, we have .is-prime method.		 10:18
grondilu nr: gist.github.com/4223474 10:19
jnthn grondilu: There's always stepping through it with le debuffer
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: ( no output )
jnthn *bugger 10:20
FROGGS grondilu: the node can contain itself?
grondilu yeah it's supposed to be recursive
because sthg like '(dog,(mouse,rabbit));' should parse 10:21
jnthn Is it a precedence issue 10:23
?
Should
| '(' ~ ')' <node>+ % ',' <name>
be
| ['(' ~ ')' <node>+ % ','] <name>
perhaps?
grondilu no change
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jnthn r: my $sample = "a\nb\nc\n"; for $sample.split: "\n" { .say } 10:26
p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤␤»
grondilu I've tried putting '[' ']' almost everywhere to make precedence clearer, but it did not help. 10:27
jnthn guess you already tried token instead of rule too? 10:29
But don't see why that'd be an issue here 10:30
grondilu damn, it did indeed worked with token 10:31
I don't understand why
nr: gist.github.com/4223474 10:32
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«(cat)dog;␤(dog,cat);␤»
grondilu I guess I should read again the difference between 'rule' and 'token' 10:33
moritz the difference is <.ws> 10:34
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felher moritz++ # nice advent post 'bout lexical import 11:12
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moritz thanks 11:16
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colomon jnthn: gist.github.com/4223784 11:20
FROGGS japhb: gist.github.com/4223775
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FROGGS @all: my proposal about installing distributions --^ # you can stone me now to death 11:21
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felher btw: who wrote the project euler post? 11:36
moritz felher: gerdr, I think 11:49
felher moritz: yeah, that is at least what the post says. I wasn't sure if he has another nick in this channel, though :) 11:50
moritz felher: gerdr or not_gerd 11:52
felher moritz: ah, not_gerd. Thanks :) 11:54
jnthn colomon: :(
colomon jnthn: yes, :(
jnthn colomon: Odd though, it's pbc_to_exe that fails
But if you got a Rakudo build you musta successfully invoked that at some point. 11:55
Is it finding the correct pbc_to_exe?
colomon no
jnthn Then that's why
colomon how the heck did I get a /usr/local/bin/pbc_to_exe?
jnthn The Makefile isn't very smart.
colomon geez, they're from 2008 11:56
jnthn wow!
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colomon wonder if I can safely just erase them? 11:56
(2008 date means they weren't even compiled on this particular computer!) 11:57
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jnthn would guess so 11:57
colomon okay, I have perl6-debug now. and my computer hasn't blown up yet. 11:58
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moritz \o/ 12:01
colomon jnthn: Could not find Debugger::UI::CommandLine in any of: ? 12:02
jnthn colomon: You need to also put that module (it's in lib) somewhere, and preferably pre-compile it. 12:03
colomon: Sorry, the installation story for this standalone isn't too great. Most people get it through installing R*. 12:04
I really should work with tadzik++ to get this pandaable
Depends on having Term::ANSIColor installed also
colomon >>> LOADING bin/step-scan.pl 12:06
>>> LOADING lib/ISO_10303_21/Grammar.pm
pain in the neck, but I seem to have it functional 12:07
\o/
now I have to learn how to use it!
tadzik jnthn: yeah, the case of plugging-in to panda builder somehow 12:11
I should have a branch or such which tries to implement it, but stumbles upon a rakudobug of sort
I don't think I reported that one :/. 12:12
jnthn If it lets us get le debugger installable through Panda I'd probably be quite motivated to fix it :P 12:28
colomon: Type "help" for a list of the commands :) 12:29
It tells you all it can do :)
colomon jnthn: I was just going to go back and look at your Advent post again. :)
jnthn That also gives a fairly practical overview. 12:31
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brrt can any polish person help me out here? 13:19
my colleagues suggest that racism is prevalent in poland, and for this reason they want to censor images containing coloured people
hoelzro blog.angryasianman.com/2009/08/phot...-site.html 13:20
brrt is this true?
oh my god
it is true
hoelzro haha
hoelzro is not Polish
tadzik phenny: en pl "prevalent"?
phenny tadzik: "rozpowszechniony" (en to pl, translate.google.com) 13:21
tadzik oh
hoelzro well, I'm not from Poland. I'm Polish by ancestry, though
tadzik well, I don't think I agree
(being Polish)
brrt i cannot imagine
hoelzro I just remember that example from a while ago =)
and found it pretty funny
huf i wouldnt censor anything to appease racists
brrt well, its funny until you are asked to do it
huf but if poland is anything like hungary, then racism is endemic
and i'd expect less fortunate societies to be more racist 13:22
so post-soviet republics are in peril
tadzik there are hardcore nationalists propagating racism, but it's a minority, and the same kind of people are everywhere
huf but that's all i know :)
brrt so
tadzik I have plenty of black people on my university, nobody cares
huf tadzik: oh sure, maybe it's not against blacks :)
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tadzik I didn't hear of anything like "censoring images" besides this one stupid microsoft case 13:23
huf in hungary, lots of people are racist againt blacks, but the level of racism is nothing compared to what chinese or the roma get
.. or jews
tadzik and, tbh, I'm not quite surprised with microsoft move
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huf yeah, that was really weird 13:23
tadzik it's stupid and funny, but it's all about targeting specific group of people
even Cialdini says, that we're more likely to like people which are like us 13:24
(like like like)
if you target an advertisment at housewives, you put a housewife in the advert
huf well yes
tadzik if you target white businessmen...
I don't think targeting black businessmen in Poland would be economically... 13:25
phenny: "uzasadione"?
phenny tadzik: "uzasadione" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
tadzik very helpful
phenny: "uzasadnione"?
phenny tadzik: "justified" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
tadzik yes, this
...simply because we have little to none of them
brrt tadzik, even white businessmen live in a world where people come with all varieties of skin pigmentation 13:26
tadzik of course
brrt it is bizarre to pretend otherwise, especially in 2012
tadzik but would you force 4 kinds of skin colours on one ad just for the sake of not being accused of racism?>
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brrt no, i would take natural photos 13:27
as they are
these people are clearly not polish, either, are they?
tadzik iow: I'm not surprised that they used 3 white people on the Polish ad, but since they actually photoshoped american ad, well, they're asking for being accused
a_b_c Hi there, is the ''N' in "s:nth(N)" can be counted from the end? Such as nth(-1)
brrt if you are an international company and want to present yourself as such
you better be honest about it
tadzik I don't disagree that it was a stupid move :) 13:28
huf tadzik: if you're making an ad in polan for poland, sure, leave out the blacks
tadzik right
huf but if you're just importing a foreign ad, ... oh come on
moritz a_b_c: I don't think so
a_b_c: but you can do (m:g/foo/)[*-1] 13:29
a_b_c thanks
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moritz (:nth is used in lazy evaluation, so you can't count from the back there) 13:31
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grondilu I could ask this to #vim, but do you know how I could have vim recognize a *.pl file as a perl6 file when it starts with 'use v6;'? 13:52
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brrt grondilu, i'd argue you should ask #vim :-) i have no idea 13:53
hoelzro grondilu: I'm trying to improve the Perl 6 support in Vim, so once you figure it out, please let me know!
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[Coke] needs moar koohii 14:17
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grondilu panda has been broken for me for a few days now 14:37
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moritz broken in what way? 14:38
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grondilu well, I ran 'boostrap.pl' and I got: Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/CORE.setting' 14:43
moritz sounds like you have an old version of panda installed already
in that case, try rebootstrap.pl
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moritz or wipe out the old installation before running bootstrap.pl again 14:44
grondilu ran rebootstrap.pl
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grondilu seems to work better indeed 14:44
yet I'm asked to compile /usr/local/src/rakudo/install/lib/parrot/4.10.0-devel/languages/perl6/site/lib/JSON/Tiny/Actions.pm
grondilu does it 14:45
grondilu now reruns rebootstrap.pl
moritz easier to to wipe out the old files than trying to fix it by hand
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tadzik FROGGS: your gist looks pretty neat 15:11
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grondilu "No object at index 333": gist.github.com/4225358 15:32
I wonder if I did not screw up my panda installation at some point. 15:33
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jnthn wonders if we shoudln't prepend all of these messages with "Out of date pre-compiled file loaded." or some such. 15:35
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jnthn decommute & 15:59
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kresike bye folks 16:25
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diakopter [Coke]: koohii? 17:01
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jnthn diakopter: coffee 17:03
but in jp, I think
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diakopter moar indeed 17:04
but the line at starbucks is too long atm
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diakopter to leave my computer attended 17:04
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lichtkind Int has a is_prime method? 17:07
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FROGGS_ is-prime 17:08
r: say 7.is-prime
p6eval rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«True␤»
moritz nr: say (1..20).grep: *.is-prime 17:09
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19␤»
lichtkind cool
moritz nr: say (2**128 + 1).is-prime
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«False␤» 17:10
moritz anybody knows a Mersenne prime by rote? :-)
TimToady RC has some
17:11 bowtie joined
TimToady though looks like they're mostly going composites, so the largest one listed is M31 17:13
ooh, M89
M11213 17:15
in rosettacode.org/wiki/Lucas-Lehmer_test 17:16
M44497
cosimo_ nr: say (2**89 - 1).is-prime
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤»
FROGGS_ what are these M-values?
cosimo_ nr: say (2**11213 - 1).is-prime 17:17
FROGGS_ oic
cosimo_ ehm... :)
cosimo_ hides
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
FROGGS_ hehe
TimToady M524287
dalek blets: 1344aa1 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
add is-prime to A
TimToady that's the largest one I've found on RC 17:19
(by Mathematica)
pmurias RC? 17:25
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lichtkind moritz do you have any plans for a p6 talk in kreuzberg? 17:26
arnsholt pmurias: RosettaCode, I think 17:27
FROGGS_ lichtkind: whats up in kreutzberg? do you mean gpw2013? 17:33
lichtkind yes
FROGGS_ k
lichtkind there its taking place
do i know your swamp? 17:34
Woodi hallo 17:37
lichtkind hai woody 17:38
FROGGS: i ment you, did we talk somewhere? 17:39
Woodi I think that we in Poland don't have rasists problems with black ppls. just becouse our history do not give us a way to create it
lichtkind your so right nigga
Woodi so anyone sugesting anti-black thingies in Poland makes fail :) 17:40
but... must say we have some starting base for it :) eg. mentioning someone black-pigmented make sentence shifts into funy matters... 17:43
but, me thing, no that kind of 'problems' here... 17:44
moritz lichtkind: not yet 17:45
afk
lichtkind moritz: allright i grapped the oo topic 17:46
grabbed
Woodi on the other hand that ad mentioned above was so, so clearly american political-correct and out of context in europe :)
FROGGS_ lichtkind: we might talked once between the sessions at the las yapc
last* 17:47
and we are both in $foo #17 iirc
lichtkind FROGGS: its #16 17:49
FROGGS_ ahh, k 17:51
Woodi to be honest we definitly *have* other problems, bigger probably is 'bad fame' for Jews... anyway, it isn't everyday problem, rather history one... 17:52
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rurban_ day7 advent preview: perl6advent.wordpress.com/?p=1217 18:02
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lichtkind Woodi yes polans tend to be proud but dont worry its all good :) 18:20
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masak evening, #perl6 18:25
rurban ERROR: Permission to perl6/mu.git denied to rurban. 18:27
- 7 MIME::Base64 - Why encoded strings are better -- rurban
+ 7 MIME::Base64 - On encoded strings -- rurban
masak rn: sub is-transition($from, $to) { state %t = 'AGGACTTC'.comb; %t{$from} eq $to }; say is-transition 'C', 'T' 18:32
p6eval rakudo 53daef, niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«True␤»
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FROGGS tadzik: thanks # comment about the gist 19:03
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timotimo moritz: the preformatted code blocks from day 6 reach through the right side of the margin (or into the menu on the right) 19:05
FROGGS phenny: please ask japhb if he has a chance to look at gist.github.com/4223775 (comments would be nice :o)
phenny: ask japhb if he has a chance to look at gist.github.com/4223775 (comments would be nice :o) 19:06
phenny FROGGS: I'll pass that on when japhb is around.
FROGGS okay, without please ;o)
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FROGGS phenny++ # anyway 19:06
grondilu rn: say "foo_bar" ~~ / <ident>+ /; 19:10
p6eval niecza v24-5-g599cbcb: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(7) text(foo_bar) pos([].list) named({"ident" => (#<match from(0) to(7) text(foo_bar) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, ).list.item}.hash)>␤»
..rakudo 53daef: OUTPUT«｢foo_bar｣␤ ident => ｢foo_bar｣␤␤»
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masak phenny: en pl "prevalent"? 19:18
phenny masak: "rozpowszechniony" (en to pl, translate.google.com)
masak could someone dissect this word for me? why is it so long?
FROGGS hehe, and how to say that.... 19:19
tadzik hehe
powszechy means common
FROGGS phenny: de ru "Sehenswürdigkeit"?
phenny FROGGS: "зрение" (de to ru, translate.google.com)
tadzik rozpowszechniać is to commonize, let's say
FROGGS ?
masak tadzik: what's "roz" in the beginning do? is it a kind of action prefix?
tadzik: like "be-" in English. "befuddle", "beguile". 19:20
"bemuse", "besmirch".
tadzik masak: I don't think that's a rule
it's not independent, surly
masak phenny: pl en "roz"?
phenny masak: "solution" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
tadzik er, no :)
rozwiązanie, yes
masak :)
Woodi wat ? :)
tadzik wiązać is to make a knot 19:21
rozwiązać, is to un-knot something
rozwiązanie is the result, let's say
masak tadzik: why do you put "roz" in front of certain words?
Woodi thing there is no 'roZ' word in polish...
tadzik wasn't me!
masak "you" as in "you Polish people". 19:22
tadzik masak: it may be that it's similar to "de" in english
demistify
Woodi masak: they learned us to do this...
tadzik decompose
taught
masak tadzik: oh, so it conveys an opposite?
tadzik er, somewhat
perigrin derive ... but only if you rived in the beginning.
tadzik not really the opossite
pył is, sort of a dust
rozpylać is to make this dust 19:23
a spray-way
masak phenny: en pl "powder"?
phenny masak: "proszek" (en to pl, translate.google.com)
masak phenny: pl en "pył"? 19:24
phenny masak: "dust" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
masak phenny: pl en "rozpylać"?
phenny masak: "spray" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
Woodi maybe roz is like wave or tornado :) 19:25
masak phenny: en pl "like wave or tornado"?
phenny masak: "jak fala lub tornado" (en to pl, translate.google.com)
Woodi it's adding entropy :) 19:26
masak Woodi: solving a knot sounds like decreasing entropy, though.
Woodi but not necesary make thing chaotic
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Woodi pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/roz- :) 19:28
tadzik :D
arnsholt goes to read
masak likewise 19:29
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arnsholt Ah, shoot. The English page is only for Czech 19:30
masak I GT'd the Polish to English.
GlitchMr back... Wiktionary even has prefixes?
masak "prefix forming nouns derived from other nouns" -- so, it's a monad? ;)
tadzik: "(1.3.c) to increase the size , intensity , etc. something" -- this seems to be what's going on with "rozpowszechniać" 19:31
Woodi masak: now it look strange ppls need to memorize such things :) 19:32
GlitchMr As for "wiązać" and "rozwiązać", right, those are opposites.
But in most cases, "roz" doesn't mean opposites.
sjohnson hmm, i would have guessed 13! 19:33
GlitchMr masak: "powszechniać" isn't a verb. 19:34
But it seems to be right 19:35
If I would compare it with "upowszechniać"
Woodi but upowszechniac is :)
u- is prefix too :)
but that prefixes do not seems to be operators... 19:36
GlitchMr Well, in Polish language prefixes are complex. Actually, I'm not sure if there's any rule to those. 19:37
arnsholt Prefixes tend to be complicated in general
In English for example, there are some prefixes that are relatively productive, but only with certain stems 19:38
(Because of hysterical raisins, of course)
Woodi but they are usefull, eg. save time, allow talk less :) 19:39
FROGGS it would be good if there are rules for that, so that you can create new words 19:40
GlitchMr Even "nie-" is complex. Usually it means negation of something.
But there are words like "nienawidzić". Polish doesn't have "nawidzić".
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arnsholt In Latin there's a class of movement verbs, all with different prefixes derived from a root word that is no longer used =) 19:41
GlitchMr Perhaps it had in the history, not sure, really.
arnsholt Most likely the root word fell out of use but the derived form stayed in use
The Latin ones I mentioned are still in use in English too: progressive, ingressive, egressive, and so on 19:43
All derived from a root verb gredior which isn't actually used in Latin
Although, now that I talk about it, it would be neat if the unprefixed variant was attested in something like Oscan or Umbrian 19:44
GlitchMr Also, those special cases. Natural languages are full of those. Like сорок that means 40 in Russian.
FROGGS {advent calender}++ # this might help me with my import problem for my module SDL 19:45
arnsholt GlitchMr: Why is that weird? 19:47
GlitchMr en.wiktionary.org/wiki/сорок
See "See also"
Other X0 numbers actually follow a rule. 19:48
Except for девяносто... is 4 special or what?
masak GlitchMr: oh! I had forgotten about сорок! thanks for reminding me :)
GlitchMr: I was so flummoxed the first time I learned that word. :D
tadzik сорок sounds like kopa 19:49
arnsholt Right, now I see. That is weird 19:50
Possibly a Turkish loan. Cool 19:51
GlitchMr Actually, kopa is like 5 dozens.
FROGGS well, in german language the 11 and 12 are weird, the others follow a plan
GlitchMr "Tuzin" in Polish
FROGGS ... and I thought a dozen is 12 19:52
GlitchMr Because it is
I have said, 5 dozens - 5 tuzinów.
FROGGS ahh, kopa, not copok 19:53
masak .oO( a dozen is 12 unless you're a baker )
FROGGS masak?
Woodi hmm ? baker ?
GlitchMr So, do you mean elf and zwölf. Yeah, that's odd to me too.
tadzik elf-cwelf
FROGGS GlitchMr: right, because dreizehn is 3=drei + 10=zehn
GlitchMr I know ;-) 19:54
masak FROGGS: nono, сорок, not copok. :D
FROGGS thats the only oddity I can think of
tadzik m?
ww, sorry
FROGGS masak: whatever ;o)
masak FROGGS: they're not even close!
.u кk
phenny U+043A CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER KA (к)
U+006B LATIN SMALL LETTER K (k)
GlitchMr masak: if you want to go with Latin, use sorok.
FROGGS just three pixels on my screen difference 19:55
GlitchMr But Cyrillic is preferred - сорок.
masak GlitchMr: thank you for informing me of how Cyrillic is pronounced. this would have been very useful for me in certain situations, such as severe memory loss.
:P
GlitchMr Well, it isn't that easy
masak oh, it's pretty easy, once you know how. 19:56
I'll give you a quick run-through some day.
GlitchMr о is spelled differently depending on accent
masak o rly?
tadzik :D
GlitchMr IPA: [ˈsorək]
FROGGS thats spocks father, is it? 19:57
tadzik SPOILER ALERT
GlitchMr With accent, о is spelled like o, otherwise it's spelled like ə.
tadzik oh, no, I've seen that one I think :)
GlitchMr Or if we map to Cyrillic, о without accent is spelled like а. 19:58
.u а
phenny U+0430 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER A (а)
GlitchMr "sorok" was transliteration
FROGGS masak: klingon is a nice language btw, if these pre- and suffix are fun for you
masak GlitchMr: was gonna say. isn't the unstressed о pronounced more like [a]? 19:59
GlitchMr Yes
masak GlitchMr: also, after learning Cyrillic, all transliterations look a bit sad and insufficient.
because Cyrillic is really good at capturing the Russian sounds. 20:00
and transliterated Latin isn't.
tadzik go figure :)
GlitchMr Oh, and accent is moving in Russian. For сорок, the accent is on first о.
masak GlitchMr: "stress is nondeterministic" :)
GlitchMr: "accent" doesn't mean what you think it means. 20:01
GlitchMr False friends ;-)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend
But right, I think I should've used stress.
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/akcent
masak it's the same false friend in Swedish. 20:02
hm, no. never mind. 20:03
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japhb FROGGS, I glanced through 4223775 because I noticed the IRC highlight, but have been too busy with $day_job to do more than that. I do like the Tron references, BTW. And the way you present your interface ideas. 20:14
phenny japhb: 19:06Z <FROGGS> ask japhb if he has a chance to look at gist.github.com/4223775 (comments would be nice :o)
20:15 sirrobert joined
tadzik . o O ( [F]irst time /r/perl6, be nice ) 20:15
I didn't write that :)
20:18 xenoterracide joined
FROGGS japhb: the reason that I would just append numeric uids (1..n) is because the auth can be a url or samething, you cant put that in a path... So you cant trust the path/filename anyway and you must use the manifest 20:24
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japhb FROGGS, we had discussed mapping URL -> path in a lossy way, but taking advantage of the fact that in actual use collisions of the lossy-mapped auth are likely to be rare. 20:32
(where we = #perl6) 20:33
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dalek rl6-roast-data: bbfac19 | coke++ | / (3 files):
today (automated commit)
 20:38
tadzik jnthn: oh, oh! 20:41
the bug fixed itself when I wasn't looking :)
I just panda-installed rakudo-debugger
jnthn Oh
\o/
sirrobert nice =) 20:42
phenny sirrobert: 29 Nov 14:29Z <jnthn> tell sirrobert be sure you're not trying to step into a pre-compiled module (ideally it would never use pre-compiled things and always compile debug versions...I'll make it do that eventually...)
tadzik well, almost ;)
I have something like gist.github.com/4228162
jnthn tadzik: You got a commit bit to rakudo-debugger already if you need to diddle its META.info or whatever.
Nice 20:43
Then the module in lib is just a normal thing.
tadzik yeah
jnthn Depends on Term::ANSIColor
tadzik that's the part that doesn't work :)
jnthn ah
tadzik but it may be that I just need to remove the 'return' which Panda::Builder does when finishing with Build.pm :)
[Coke] starts again to see if he can build pugs... first hit googling for the error I'm getting... is my gist. Uhoh. 20:45
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tadzik and now panda stopped building with Malformed UTF-8 String. Wtf 20:55
tadzik ponders Dist::Zilla-ish thing for Perl 6 20:56
20:56 arlinius left
tadzik although I more need a revived Module::Starter probably 20:57
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colomon tadzik++ 21:12
sergot hi everyone! o/ 21:14
tadzik hello sergot :)
masak sergocie! \o/ 21:17
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sorear sergocie, tadzik, colomon, maska! 21:30
colomon o/
tadzik (: 21:31
masak sorear! \o/ 21:33
sergot \o/ 21:36
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masak 'night, #perl6 21:51
sergot masak: good night! 21:53
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dalek nda: ce829d7 | tadzik++ | lib/Panda/Builder.pm:
Support custom builders. Experimental, may break
 22:27
tadzik *drum roll* 22:28
dalek kudo-debugger: 0f4dcf1 | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
Make it Panda-installable
tadzik jnthn: high five :)
22:30 fgomez left
jnthn o/⁵\o 22:31
22:31 fgomez joined
jnthn tadzik++ 22:31
[Coke] jnthn++ #emoticon.
tadzik the whole mechanism will probably change, but it works for now :) 22:32
dalek kudo-debugger: d8f47ac | jnthn++ | README.markdown:
Update README.

Suggest panda installation now it's possible (tadzik++). Also link to blog post and video demonstrating it.		 22:41
jnthn tadzik: Guess it also wants the META.info adding to ecosystem?
tadzik jnthn: oh, sure 22:43
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dalek osystem: ed626b0 | jonathan++ | META.list:
Add Rakudo::Debugger.
 22:54
flussence is there a trick to installing rakudo git so that I don't have to update my $PATH every time the parrot version changes? :/ 22:55
japhb diakopter, re: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-12-05#i_6216009 , a few years back I saw an add for a screen saver that supposedly detected the keyboard patterns of a cat on the keyboard, and flashed the display and made loud noises to try to shoo the cat away.
tadzik, re: github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/ce829d76f5#L0R41 , should that be unshift instead of push (and later shift instead of pop)? 22:56
sorear use a webcam to detect cats approaching the keyboard 22:57
jnthn Thing is, cats already know they're cute enough to get away with anything :) 23:00
japhb FROGGS, re: gist.github.com/4223775 , I like the power you implying, though I'd definitely want a quieter default (all that info is more than a little verbose!). As for the 'activate' command (which I read as similar in concept to Debian alternatives), I've been letting that basic idea simmer in the back of my head for a few days and I'm beginning to think A) it's not *quite* that simple, and B) nevertheless we need something like 23:01
it.
23:03 benabik joined
japhb TimToady, regarding packaging and zipballs and such, I'm beginning to think that (for the specific case of a git repo holding the source), a release really just needs to be a revish. A tag is of course easy for humans, but any revish will do. 23:04
So then the question is what kind of build procedure happens on install, and if it destroys all that fun revish info. 23:05
japhb wonders if really we want to see through the commit/tag to the git tree object 23:06
japhb goes back to his regularly scheduled work ... 23:07
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dalek rl6-bench: 23baaf3 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
Add --runs option to set number of times each test will be run for each compiler variant
 23:40
jnthn 'night, #perl6 23:44

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