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»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend! Set by sorear on 25 June 2013. |
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| TimToady | for the record, I'm fine with assign_pos and assign_key | 00:21 | |
| though we might want to go a step further and have WHENCE-less lvalues that represent those, so we can pass lvalues to natives | |||
| (in addition to those ops, not instead of) | 00:22 | ||
| basically, we need some sort of GC-safe pointers to both scalar natives and composites of natives | 00:24 | ||
| then $native++ becomes trivial to implement | 00:25 | ||
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| TimToady | and if these pointers are themselves considered a native type, they could also be incremented easily to point to the next array entry (with bounds checking, presumably) | 00:28 | |
| as in Go's array pointers | |||
| and there are a whole bunch of optimizations that come into play as soon as we know an array is of fixed size | 00:30 | ||
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| beginner | hello | 00:41 | |
| what would you guys recommend the best way to learn perl is | 00:42 | ||
| TimToady | Learning Perl is a pretty good book for that | ||
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| BenGoldberg | beginner, If you join #perl, you'll get lots more advice on how to learn perl than you will here. | 00:52 | |
| The #perl6 channel is for discussing perl6, a programming language which has many similarities to perl(5), but which is most definitely not the same language. | |||
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| jnthn | morning, #perl6 | 06:55 | |
| moritz | \o jnthn, #perl6, * | 06:56 | |
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| jnthn | TimToady: Thanks; I'll look into an assign_pos/assign_key. Yes, I plotted the container spec stuff to let me do native things, and be able to convey it down to the VM. Just didn't get to implement it yet. | 07:00 | |
| timotimo | o/ | 07:03 | |
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| nwc10 | good *, #perl6 | 07:21 | |
| lizmat | nwc10 o/ from Zurich | 07:22 | |
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| nwc10 wonders what is happening in Zurich today | 07:22 | ||
| jnthn | Mmmm...Zurich :) | ||
| nwc10 | or are you there because even the XP Zombie apocalypse would think twice about invading Switzerland? | 07:23 | |
| brrt | hi lizmat | ||
| and nwc10 | |||
| and all | |||
| lizmat | Damian teaching Perl 6 | ||
| nwc10 | aha. | ||
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| nwc10 | naughty Australians with their naughty cricket team | 07:23 | |
| jnthn | Does naughty in this case mean, "beating England"? :P | 07:24 | |
| nwc10 | obviously. | 07:25 | |
| more than once. | |||
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| sergot | morning o/ | 07:51 | |
| moritz notices with horror that openssh depends on openssl | 07:52 | ||
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| moritz | LHF: git-bisect rakudo to find the commit that leads to t/spec/integration/99problems-21-to-30.t failing tests | 11:31 | |
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| retupmoca | moritz: openssh doesn't use TLS from openssl, so it isn't affected | 12:13 | |
| (assuming you're talking about heartbleed) | 12:14 | ||
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| nwc10 | moritz: is there a last known good revision? | 12:17 | |
| (not, to be clear, I'm not proposing to take the task, but if that's know then it makes the L much Lower) | 12:18 | ||
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| moritz | nwc10, anybody: should be good 3699aaf672c47987168e33a02c2c31b3a4798232 (trust by verify!) | 13:27 | |
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| lizmat wonders why we haven't implemented "is cached" yet | 13:33 | ||
| is there a particular reason for that? Or is that LHF | |||
| ? | |||
| colomon | lizmat: the simple case is pretty easy to implement | 13:34 | |
| hard cases are hard. | |||
| though do I remember correctly that you can have hashes with non-string keys now? | 13:35 | ||
| that would help a lot | |||
| lizmat | yes, you can | 13:36 | |
| Sets/Bags/Mixes depend on them | |||
| well, in their original implementation :-) | |||
| but the same trick could be used for "is cached", I would think | |||
| lizmat decides to ponder on this some more :-) | 13:39 | ||
| lizmat would like to have *all* of Damian's examples *actually work*(TM) | |||
| colomon | lizmat: perl6advent.wordpress.com/author/fo...23/page/2/ | ||
| Damian's examples wheree? | |||
| lizmat | at the Perl 6 course he is giving right now in Zurich, Switzerland | 13:40 | |
| colomon | oh! | ||
| sweet! | |||
| colomon remembers the p6 team adding a feature for Damian during one of his lectures at YAPC::NA 2010 (I think that was the year) | 13:41 | ||
| is there more information on the course somewhere online? | |||
| Ven thinks scalar parameters would be the easiest case of `is cached` | 13:42 | ||
| lizmat | damian.conway.org/Courses/ProgPerl6.html | ||
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| Ven would like to see that course, too | 13:42 | ||
| actually, easiest to cache is 0-ary | 13:43 | ||
| colomon | damian++ | ||
| Ven | multi sub trait_mod:<is>(pattern match on empty sig $r, $:cached!) { my $cache; $r.wrap(-> { $cache // callsame }); } | 13:44 | |
| tadzik | I read Rationalized as Randomized, getting Randomized syntax and semantics | ||
| Ven | r: say reverse "foo" # is that still true | 13:47 | |
| camelia | rakudo-jvm da1ef6: OUTPUT«(timeout)» | ||
| ..rakudo-parrot da1ef6, rakudo-moar da1ef6: OUTPUT«foo» | |||
| colomon | m: say flip "foo" | 13:49 | |
| camelia | rakudo-moar da1ef6: OUTPUT«oof» | ||
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| Ven is trying to get rakudo-js to compile ... | 13:57 | ||
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| Ven ... but fails doing so ! | 14:02 | ||
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| Ven | what's that "js-blib" yer talking 'bout ! | 14:13 | |
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| raiph | Ven: aiui the initial cut at *NQP* on js must be wrapped first | 14:26 | |
| Ven | raiph: (auiu ?) initial cut ? | 14:27 | |
| raiph | sorry, aiui = as i understand it, first cut = a sufficiently working version | 14:28 | |
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| Ven | raiph: then last part (:p) : "wrapped" ? I get that if it's self-hosting, you have to compile something first -- I followed README's instructions tho | 14:30 | |
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| raiph | Ven: heh, sorry about all those idioms; by "wrapped" I just meant done -- NQP on js isn't yet (sufficiently) done | 14:33 | |
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| Ven | raiph: oh, okay. I guess it should be something to move to moar by now, too ? | 14:43 | |
| from what i see, moar didn't exist then ? | |||
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| Ven can't even build rakudo because of a "syntax error in tools/lib/nqp/configure.pm" | 14:48 | ||
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| raiph | Ven: have you previously successfully built rakudo on the same system? | 14:54 | |
| Ven | raiph: nope, never. Thought I'd try and help somehow somewhere :) | 14:55 | |
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| raiph | Ven: what instructions are you following? (link?) | 14:56 | |
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| Ven | commuting & (thanks for the help raiph !) | 14:58 | |
| raiph | \o later | 14:59 | |
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| retupmoca | I wrote some documentation for my LibraryMake module - could I get someone to read over it and make sure it's understandable/includes everything needed? github.com/retupmoca/P6-LibraryMake | 15:05 | |
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| retupmoca | If you were to come in asking "How do I bundle and use a .so file with my panda distribution?", I want that README to give you what you need | 15:06 | |
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| moritz | retupmoca: looks good | 15:14 | |
| timotimo | retupmoca: do you have any clue how to make this cooperate with pre-existing makefiles? | 15:17 | |
| awwaiid | "retupmoc7" was my handle when I was a TI-85 hacker. Greetings retupmoca! | ||
| I pronounced mine with a klingon accent, personally. | |||
| (the 7 is slient) | |||
| retupmoca | timotimo: you want to just run 'make' on panda install? | 15:20 | |
| jnthn | yays I teached all the thigns | ||
| and will have more Perl 6 time/energy the rest of the week :) | |||
| decommute & | |||
| timotimo | retupmoca: well ... i guess? | 15:21 | |
| what if my game has assets that would be compiled "from source" (xcf to png for example) when you get it from my repo | |||
| retupmoca | timotimo: you can write your own Makefile.in in the src (or whatever) directory | 15:22 | |
| timotimo | oh nice :) | 15:23 | |
| retupmoca | timotimo: that's what that is - an example of a Makefile.in that you would write | ||
| timotimo | aaaaah | ||
| i see that now | |||
| good hint | |||
| retupmoca | I should probably add a line about how those are examples of what you would write in your project | 15:24 | |
| timotimo | my confusion only serves to make your documentation better :) | 15:25 | |
| retupmoca | indeed :) | ||
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| timotimo | retupmoca: the change to NativeCall hasn't entered the master branch yet? | 15:43 | |
| lizmat | dinner& | 15:57 | |
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| vendethiel | "you just subscribed to 26 perl6 repositories" thanks moritz ! | 15:58 | |
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| timotimo | yay \o/ | 16:05 | |
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| vendethiel | raiph: so, basically, I was following the install.txt | 16:41 | |
| which didn't work on my school comp, but seems to work here ?! | |||
| raiph | vendethiel: rakudo build requires a "recent" perl5; I'm guessing your school comp has a very old perl5 | 16:43 | |
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| timotimo | hehe. "recent" :) | 16:43 | |
| from only shortly after i was born | |||
| geekosaur | in particular, rhel / centos / scientific linux has perl 5.10 and there's a whole lot of stuff that doesn't work with it | 16:44 | |
| (rhel is fairly common in .edu) | |||
| moritz | vendethiel: you're welcome. As a policy, I tend to give everybody a commit bit to the p6 repos who had a pull request accepted | 16:45 | |
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| colomon | moritz++ | 16:45 | |
| moritz | (or even asks nicely) | ||
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| timotimo | isn't 5.10 enough for rakudo's build scripts? | 16:49 | |
| vendethiel | raiph: it has perl 5.8.8, which is what the install.txt recommends | 16:53 | |
| gmake-installdev completly blows up tho | |||
| and I can't seem to redirect stderr to stdout... | 16:55 | ||
| I guess 2>&1 doesn't work on windows uh ... | |||
| moritz: yeah, I guessed so :) | 16:56 | ||
| geekosaur | you'd need a unixy shell, not cmd.exe, certainly | 16:57 | |
| hm, actually it looks like cmd.exe *should* support that syntax | 16:58 | ||
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| vendethiel | yeah, I remember it working. | 16:58 | |
| geekosaur | (I know they added a subset of unix fd redirection over just >file type stuff, but didn't know that part was there) | 16:59 | |
| vendethiel | I get tons and tons of errors, but at the beginning I've got "Warning: Building a shared parrot library may conflict with your previously-installed C:\rakudo\bin\libparrot.dll" which very well might be the error | ||
| geekosaur | I think that's known, yes, if you have an installed version then building a new one is problematic | 17:00 | |
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| vendethiel | removed it, still getting 18k lines of errors. Whew. | 17:03 | |
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| raiph | "Remove unneeded repos from github/perl6" | 17:21 | |
| questhub.io/realm/perl/quest/53457...d24e00006d | |||
| comments (or acting on them) appreciated | 17:22 | ||
| vendethiel | raiph: seems like those github/ should be github.com/ ? | ||
| timotimo | yeah | 17:23 | |
| raiph | fixed | ||
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| timotimo | i don't think simple-tests has any useful bits, it's almost completely devoid of content | 17:26 | |
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| retupmoca | timotimo: jnthn wanted to do the NativeCall change in a different way | 17:31 | |
| timotimo | OK | 17:32 | |
| retupmoca | and that other way is not yet written | ||
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| retupmoca | raiph: I know moritz is the one who forked Perl6-MIME-Base64 into perl6 org | 17:37 | |
| back when I first started working on it | |||
| jnthn | Hmm, no dalek | 17:38 | |
| timotimo | Optimize Hash.at_key and Hash.bind_key. | 17:42 | |
| Gives a 14% saving on while_hash_set benchmark. | |||
| jnthn authored 5 minutes ago | |||
| raiph | rurban: I'm spring cleaning github.com/perl6; thoughts about moving /nqp-rx? | ||
| Ven, timotimo, retupmoca: thx | 17:43 | ||
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| timotimo | nqp-rx ... isn't that replicated under parrot/? | 17:44 | |
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| timotimo | at least i seem to recall it's now a closely-tied-to-parrot project | 17:44 | |
| jnthn | timotimo: you forgot the jnthn++ :P | 17:45 | |
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| timotimo | jnthn++ | 17:47 | |
| 14%? i was hoping for something more like 14x! :P | |||
| jnthn | timotimo: oh, that isn't the assign_key change :) | ||
| timotimo | oh, it is not? | 17:48 | |
| great! :) | |||
| timotimo is no longer disappointed | |||
| jnthn | No, that's just some opts I spotted on the existing code path, which will make every hash access faster | ||
| timotimo | anything spesh can do to make hash access even faster still? | 17:49 | |
| jnthn | Well, once multispec is done, probably yes :) | 17:50 | |
| And later there'll be inlining too of course. | |||
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| timotimo | inlining will do all kinds of magical things | 17:54 | |
| at least in my hopes & dreams | 17:55 | ||
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| vendethiel -- Perl6 is getting fast :) | 17:56 | ||
| timotimo | almost | 17:57 | |
| not yet for this month's release anyway | |||
| vendethiel | in the grand scheme of things | 18:00 | |
| vendethiel -- according to keikaku | |||
| timotimo | keikaku? | 18:01 | |
| vendethiel | plan | 18:02 | |
| "according to keikaku" is an internet phrase though | |||
| timotimo | ah, ok | ||
| jnthn | hehe :) | 18:03 | |
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| jnthn | I pushed adding assign_key and switching to it | 20:04 | |
| No regressions that I can see :) | |||
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| jnthn | Really need to get multispec done; things were a good bit faster before I made assign_key a multi. | 20:05 | |
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| timotimo | whoa. | 20:07 | |
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| vendethiel kinda wants to see how much % improvement that is | 20:09 | ||
| jnthn | Hopefully quite a bit :) | ||
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| jnthn | Pushed a few more opts :) | 20:31 | |
| Detrain & | |||
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| colomon | hmmm, stage parse was slower this time than earlier today. only by 1 second, but still…. ;) | 20:39 | |
| timotimo | with the very latest commits, there's a bit more code in there now | 20:42 | |
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| jnthn | colomon: I've had variance of around a second in parse times on my laptop over the last day or so | 20:49 | |
| colomon: Without much correlation to what I was changing. | |||
| colomon | probably depends as much on what else my machine was running as anything. I was mostly just razzing you. | 20:50 | |
| you keep on coming up with optimizations faster than I get a chance to try them. | |||
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| timotimo | m: say :16(ord("!")) | 21:18 | |
| camelia | rakudo-moar 541f9f: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding $str; expected 'Str' but got 'Int' in sub unbase at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6774 in block at /tmp/PpN_lFOrAo:1» | ||
| timotimo | oops, wrong way around | ||
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| timotimo | m: say ord("!").base(16) # like this? | 21:18 | |
| camelia | rakudo-moar 541f9f: OUTPUT«21» | ||
| timotimo | m: say ord("!").base(2) # like this? | ||
| camelia | rakudo-moar 541f9f: OUTPUT«100001» | ||
| timotimo | m: say ord("+").base(2) | 21:19 | |
| camelia | rakudo-moar 541f9f: OUTPUT«101011» | ||
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| jnthn | Nice; spectest is a good bit faster on my machine at home than when I left on Sunday :) | 21:21 | |
| timotimo | \o/ | 21:22 | |
| jnthn | 290s instead of 314s. | ||
| timotimo | oh wow | 21:27 | |
| jnthn | Yes, happy to have it back under 300s :) | 21:30 | |
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| segomos | r: class a { method b { say self.b:defined; } }; my $d = a.new; say $d.b; | 21:56 | |
| camelia | rakudo-jvm 986916, rakudo-moar 986916: OUTPUT«(timeout)» | ||
| ..rakudo-parrot 986916: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceededcurrent instr.: 'print_exception' pc 143557 (src/gen/p-CORE.setting.pir:60951) (gen/parrot/CORE.setting:11212)called from Sub 'b' pc 167 ((file unknown):109) (/tmp/tmpfile:1)called from Sub 'b' pc 189 ((file unkno…» | |||
| timotimo | huh? | ||
| segomos | just wanted to see how it reacted.. | 21:57 | |
| timotimo | how is that :defined supposed to apply? | ||
| segomos | r: class a { method b { say self.b.perl.say; } }; my $d = a.new; say $d.b; | ||
| camelia | rakudo-moar 986916: OUTPUT«(timeout)» | 21:58 | |
| ..rakudo-jvm 986916: OUTPUT«java.lang.StackOverflowError» | |||
| ..rakudo-parrot 986916: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceededcurrent instr.: 'print_exception' pc 143557 (src/gen/p-CORE.setting.pir:60951) (gen/parrot/CORE.setting:11212)called from Sub 'b' pc 167 ((file unknown):109) (/tmp/tmpfile:1)called from Sub 'b' pc 189 ((file unkno…» | |||
| jnthn | I suspect it ignores it and then just recurses forever :) | ||
| segomos | timotimo: it's not, it should be the self.can or any one of the introspective functions, just curious how the engines other than moar are handling it | ||
| timotimo | oh? | ||
| jnthn | moar doesn't presently enforce a recursion limit | 21:59 | |
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| timotimo | is that specced? that :defined would cause that behavior? | 21:59 | |
| jnthn doesn't remember seeing it ever :) | |||
| segomos | i don't think so | ||
| jnthn | It'll be parsed due to longname, as a colonpair as part of the name, iirc. | 22:00 | |
| timotimo | mhm | ||
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| jnthn | Hm. I wonder why / ... { ... } ... / uses contextual scope to set up $/ | 22:01 | |
| (for the block invocation) | |||
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| segomos | timotimo: just me screwing around - | 22:02 | |
| timotimo is reading "php: a fractal of bad design" again | |||
| ~_~ | |||
| i had forgotten how many things there were in that | |||
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| timotimo | tortoisewrath.com/wat.htm#2000 - this is impressive | 22:16 | |
| synopsebot | Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...ml?id=2000 | ||
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| lizmat | seems that dd1f4fad6b1929dba005042cc3fd330d30f53526 is the one breaking t/spec/integration/99problems-21-to-30.t | 22:20 | |
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| jnthn | lizmat: Hmmm...very weird. | 22:22 | |
| lizmat: If you've time/motivation, a golf would be very appreciated. | |||
| lizmat | working on that | 22:25 | |
| taking out this candidate: | |||
| #multi map(&code, @values) { @values.map(&code) } | |||
| fixes the tests | |||
| first failing test uses map, the second grep | 22:26 | ||
| jnthn | HHmmm | ||
| lizmat | since grep is implemented in terms of map, I though I'd first try that | ||
| jnthn | What's the type of @values here? | ||
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| lizmat | } else { | 22:27 | |
| (map { [@xs[0],$_.list] },combination($n-1,@xs[1..*])), combination($n,@xs[1..*]) | |||
| } | |||
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| lizmat | the failing tests all use the non slurpy variant | 22:32 | |
| not ok 12 - combinations work. | |||
| # got: '1 2 5 1 3 5 1 4 5 2 3 5 2 4 5 3 4 5' | |||
| # expected: '1 2 3 1 2 4 1 2 5 1 3 4 1 3 5 1 4 5 2 3 4 2 3 5 2 4 5 3 4 5' | |||
| not ok 13 - group works | 22:33 | ||
| # got: '' | |||
| # expected: '1 2 3 1 2 4 1 3 2 1 3 4 1 4 2 1 4 3 2 3 1 2 3 4 2 4 1 2 4 3 3 4 1 3 4 2 | |||
| jnthn | Yeah, I mean what would @values.WHAT be? | 22:35 | |
| (e.g. what does combination return) | |||
| oh, hang on...how can that one there call the @values candidate? There are two args to map after the closure... | 22:36 | ||
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| lizmat | not sure | 22:38 | |
| jnthn | o.O | 22:39 | |
| Weird | |||
| lizmat | the elements are arrays | 22:53 | |
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| lizmat | hmmm... seems we lost dalek: just committed a patch removing the non-slurpy candidate for map for now | 23:01 | |
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| lizmat | starting to lose coherency, so gnight #perl6! | 23:03 | |
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| timotimo | who can fix dalek? | 23:04 | |
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| timotimo | m: say :16<34> | 23:23 | |
| camelia | rakudo-moar 986916: OUTPUT«52» | ||
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| lue | .oO(say :16<➂➃>) |
23:54 | |