»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
00:02 spider-mario left
orbus RabidGravy: you have a pi or a pi2? 00:05
on pi2 it's not super fast but if you do make -j5, that helps some
RabidGravy both 00:06
orbus I only have the pi2
finally seem to have gotten it stable incidentally - the first sd card I made worked for a while and then started getting massive filesystem corruption 00:07
RabidGravy oh on the rev b pi it's go away and have a bunch of beer while you make perl
orbus until it wouldn't boot anymore
haha, yeah, parallel make helps - put those cores to work
RabidGravy on the original pi there's only one core 00:08
orbus yeah, I know 00:09
that's why when I started looking at getting one, I waited till the pi2 released
perl builds a lot better on arm than it does on sparc at least 00:10
I can just about get moar to build on sparc, but it segfaults as soon as you try to build nqp
from what I've read, sparc is super picky about memory alignment and I think it doesn't like something moar is doing
stmuk__ I keep meaning to try qemu-arm and raspian 00:11
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orbus I'm a rebel so I didn't use raspbian - I just took the arm fedora image and hacked in the pi kernel 00:12
I'm kind of amazed it runs
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RabidGravy yeah I use the fedora on the Pi, at least on one of them 00:13
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orbus I implemented lock based compare and swap that seems to correspond to S17's intentions and seems to work 00:16
m: multi casx($ref is rw, $expected, $new) {state $l=Lock.new; my $z; $l.protect({if $ref == $expected { $ref = $new; $z=True } else { $z=False };}); return $z; }; multi casx(\val, &code){my $o=val; while casx(val,$o,code(val))==False {$o=val}}; my $x=0; await start {for ^1000 { casx($x,{$_+1}) }} xx 8; put $x
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«8000␤»
orbus only thing I changed is the 3 argument version of cas in the synopsis returns the original value of $ref 00:17
which seems kind of useless to me
so I changed it to true / false which seems more useful
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orbus hrm, except maybe it's intended that the 3 argument version always succeed 00:19
maybe I better try this again 00:20
ely-se What's with all the all-caps language names? C, C++, C#, D, etc 00:21
Juerd ely-se: And PERL of course ;) 00:22
orbus Hrmm. No, I think it's right how it is - the 3 argument version described in S17 returns the original value of $ref whether the comparison succeeds or not, when you really need to know whether or not it succeeded. 00:25
and if you try to compare after doing cas, then there's a potential for race conditions
so having true/false seems decidedly better
gfldex ely-se: back in the days folk used typewriters, easy to stand out if you don't git <i>c</i> 00:26
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RabidGravy also 7 bit, the style stuck 00:37
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AlexDaniel m: say ⹂test” 00:39
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at /tmp/jYZUvx1z1a:1␤------> 3say7⏏5 ⹂test”␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/jYZUvx1z1a:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5⹂test”␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper…»
AlexDaniel .u ⹂”
yoleaux U+201D RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK [Pf] (”)
AlexDaniel m: ‘⹂’.uniname.say; ‘”’.uniname.say
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«DOUBLE LOW-REVERSED-9 QUOTATION MARK␤RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK␤»
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lucasb AlexDaniel: can I suggest a puzzle? sort all uninames by length and find the longest name 00:42
AlexDaniel lucasb: easy
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AlexDaniel m: say (0..0x1FFFF).sort(*.uniname.chars)[*-1].chr.uniname 00:45
m: say (0..0x1FFFF).sort(*.uniname.chars)[*-1].chr
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM␤»
rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«ﯹ␤»
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AlexDaniel lucasb: told ya, easy 00:45
lucasb AlexDaniel++, very good :)
AlexDaniel m: say (0..0x1FFFF).sort(*.uniname.chars)[*-2].chr 00:46
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«ﯻ␤»
AlexDaniel m: say (0..0x1FFFF).sort(*.uniname.chars)[*-2].chr.uniname
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA INITIAL FORM␤»
RabidGravy m: say «foo»
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«foo␤»
AlexDaniel is there anything non arabic 00:47
lucasb are these names canonical? can't a codepoint have more than one official name?
AlexDaniel m: say (0..0x1FFFF).sort(*.uniname.chars)[*-10].chr.uniname
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«MUSICAL SYMBOL TEMPUS IMPERFECTUM CUM PROLATIONE IMPERFECTA DIMINUTION-2␤»
AlexDaniel lucasb: I don't think so. In fact, it cannot even have more than one group
I might be wrong but I haven't ever seen that
RabidGravy so yeah it those quotes work *all* quotes should work
AlexDaniel RabidGravy: all quotes do work actually
m: say “…” 00:48
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«…␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ”…”
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«…␤»
AlexDaniel m: „…“
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/yTMyjC8KWS:␤Useless use of constant string "…" in sink context (line 1)␤»
AlexDaniel m: say „…“
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«…␤»
RabidGravy you just showed the lower quotes don't
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AlexDaniel m: ,…’ 00:48
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tQXomzasC7␤Comma found before apparent series operator; please remove comma (or put parens␤ around the ... listop, or use 'fail' instead of ...)␤at /tmp/tQXomzasC7:1␤------> 3,7⏏5…’␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ,…’
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/OGMrrIVyNv␤Comma found before apparent series operator; please remove comma (or put parens␤ around the ... listop, or use 'fail' instead of ...)␤at /tmp/OGMrrIVyNv:1␤------> 3say ,7⏏5…’␤»
AlexDaniel .u ,
yoleaux U+002C COMMA [Po] (,)
AlexDaniel hey!! What? 00:49
geekosaur .u ¸
yoleaux U+00B8 CEDILLA [Sk] (¸)
geekosaur hm, wrong one
AlexDaniel m: say ‚…’
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«…␤»
RabidGravy yeah uncomposed ç
AlexDaniel here. Wikipedia got that wrong
unless somebody is actually using a comma instead of a lower quote…
Quom__ .u ‚ 00:50
yoleaux U+201A SINGLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK [Ps] (‚)
AlexDaniel lucasb: in fact, these names are guaranteed not change
not to*
at least that's what I've read on unicode.org somewhere… 00:51
RabidGravy: I showed that some new weird unicode char is not supported, yes 00:52
geekosaur .u ‚
yoleaux U+201A SINGLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK [Ps] (‚)
geekosaur ok, that's how i compose it. sigh 00:53
AlexDaniel geekosaur: how, by the way?
geekosaur too much crap in the compose file >.>
<compse> , '
RabidGravy to be honest I only care about things I can type without too much effort
AlexDaniel ‚oh’!
geekosaur (comma, apostrophe)
Skarsnik damn this Perl6 process is growing in memory :(
but it should not
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: time to buy more memory 00:54
Skarsnik: memory is cheap!!
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AlexDaniel RabidGravy: the thing is, there is a subset of combinations that are actually used by people. These are already supported by Perl 6. Should we support anything else? Well, do we actually want to support things like 🙶🙷 or ❮❯ or ❛❜ or ‹› … 00:56
dalek c: e79fa57 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
better example for Cool::uniname (AlexDaniel++)
c: 2f763ce | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
Merge pull request #336 from gfldex/master

better example for Cool::uniname (AlexDaniel++)
AlexDaniel RabidGravy: and why not leave those for user-defined things? :) 00:57
gfldex: wrong snippet though. should be *-1, not *-2
RabidGravy well I think everyone should be fairly consevative in what they do and perl should be liberal in what it accepts 00:58
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RabidGravy and the first thing there my computer no have a thing for that code point 00:59
dalek c: 251eb2f | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
late night copypasta error, fixed
c: 306013c | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
Merge pull request #337 from gfldex/master

late night copypasta error, fixed
AlexDaniel m: say ‚hello ‚nested’’
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«hello ‚nested’␤»
RabidGravy but would you accept it in a code review? 01:00
AlexDaniel RabidGravy: if it used consistently, then yes 01:01
is*
m: say ‘»ö«’.uniname
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK␤»
AlexDaniel gfldex: hmm, what's the point of this? ↑ 01:02
gfldex: shouldn't it be this? ↓
m: say ‘»ö«’.uninames
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK)␤»
gfldex AlexDaniel: indeed
m: say ‘»ö«’>>.uniname
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK)␤»
AlexDaniel or this, yes 01:03
gfldex that doesnt work either, because there is no split
AlexDaniel m: say ‘»ö«’.comb>>.uniname
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK)␤» 01:04
AlexDaniel m: say ‘»ö«’.comb».uniname
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK)␤»
AlexDaniel gfldex: that's why we have plural forms, I guess. To save the forest by not using .comb 01:05
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AlexDaniel gfldex: also, I don't really see it documented. So perhaps this example should show .uninames :) 01:06
use*
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gfldex on it. 01:08
AlexDaniel gfldex: also, the night is really late, because it is not just *-1. This MAKSURA thing should be in ISOLATED form, not INITIAL
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AlexDaniel m: say (0..0x1FFFF).sort(*.uniprop.chars)[*-1].chr.uniprop # just for fun 01:09
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«So␤»
AlexDaniel m: say (0..0x1FFFF).sort(*.uniprop.chars)[0].chr.uniprop # just for fun 01:10
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ‘a’.uniprop
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«Ll␤»
AlexDaniel ah right, there are some unused code points with no prop. Got it 01:11
mspo panda sucks 01:14
RabidGravy mspo, please feel free to improve upon it 01:15
AlexDaniel mspo: or at least submit bug reports, that works too
mspo where is --notests supposed to go? 01:16
AlexDaniel panda --notests install Something
gfldex .oO( complaining and fixing are mutual inclusive )
RabidGravy no saying it sucks requires actual material fixing
mspo Usage: panda <action> [options]
AlexDaniel mspo: hahaha!
mspo and then 01:17
Actions:
install Installs the modules listed on the command line, and their
dependencies.
--notests Don't run tests for the modules being installed.
AlexDaniel but it says panda [options] <action> here
so not hahaha…
RabidGravy mspo, in that case I think you mean Perl 6 sucks
mspo AlexDaniel: you mean your usage is different?
RabidGravy you can fix the MAIN implementation as a penance 01:18
AlexDaniel mspo: yeah, where did you find <action> [options] ?
mspo I typed panda -h
AlexDaniel mspo: yeah, I definitely see “panda [options] <action>” exactly in that order 01:20
RabidGravy it's a LTA result of the way the MAIN helpers work
mspo ? 01:21
AlexDaniel yeah. ?
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mspo how do I get the version of my panda/ 01:22
it must be out of date
AlexDaniel I've tried ｢panda info Panda｣ but it does not show the version 01:24
mspo between 2015.11 and 2015.12 that help message was switched
RabidGravy panda has been changed frequently in the last month 01:30
mspo just keep repeating and it will work, I guess: gist.github.com/msporleder/d0aa0318f78a5654560f 01:31
notests was required to get past the pod coverage module 01:32
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RabidGravy I'd forgotten about the pod coverage thing 01:35
mspo p6doc doesn't work on bsd because fmt takes different options from gnu 01:36
why is p6doc calling out to the shell so much? 01:37
RabidGravy dunno, that sucks
mspo fmt feels like a perl-friendly thing ;) 01:38
RabidGravy probably because no one implemented fmt in perl 6 yet
there you go, job for you 01:39
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mspo yeah 01:39
RabidGravy :)
mspo it might just be netbsd being weird in fmt, actually 01:40
dalek c: 4f27969 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
get the first part of the example right and link to uninames
c: 6b1b6c8 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
doc uninames
c: 9bf3a84 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
title Cool a class
c: 54e9b9c | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | /:
Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master'
c: 37b0eaf | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/ (2 files):
name Code and Ducation a class too
c: d19f3b7 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/ (3 files):
Merge pull request #338 from gfldex/master

name Cool, Code and Ducation a class | doc uninames | get the first part of the example right and link to uninames
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mspo how can I troubleshoot this? Variable '%?RESOURCES' is not declared 01:46
Skarsnik Oo
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travis-ci Doc build errored. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'Merge pull request #338 from gfldex/master 01:47
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/101346339 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/30601...9f3b7cbcd0
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RabidGravy mspo, pre-release rakudo I'd say 01:54
lichtkind am so happy 01:55
RabidGravy %?RESOURCES is fairly fundamental to the way most things find compiled helper libraries 01:56
lichtkind you can no write $matrix ** -2 and it does what oyu expect
perl 6 makes it so easy
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mspo I guess I should try deleting my local install before compiling next time 02:02
BenGoldberg lichtkind, Just because perl5's Math::Matrix does not have exponentiation, is not the fault of perl5, but rather the fault of the author of that particular module.
RabidGravy indeed 02:03
lichtkind i know you can define ops i p5 but its easier in perl 6 02:04
BenGoldberg Reading en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_exponential, it's really easy to see why he chose to omit it...
RabidGravy but there's the out of the box thing :)
anyway toodles 02:05
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lichtkind BenGoldberg, matrix exponentiation is something different 02:05
than power of an matrix
mspo does panda have a delete?
BenGoldberg Err, what's the difference between power and exponentiation? 02:06
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lichtkind matrix exponential is a matrix of limits of series 02:08
i speak about calculating with matrices like integer
much more simler
its analog to num math
much more practical 02:09
i only encountered matrix exponential in few ordinary differential tasks
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BenGoldberg Well, regardless, defining a math-like operator for a particular class is not very difficult, so long as you choose to use a "normal" operator, such as +, -, *, /, **, ^, etc. 02:13
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jeturcotte ahoy; where can I find documentation on nqp::bindattr ? 02:14
BenGoldberg package MyMatrices { use overload '**' => 'my_method'; ... define sub my_method here ... }, and you're done. But that's a discussion for #perl, not for #perl6.
lucs Is an identifier like $ɡfoo supposed to be allowed? 02:19
(U-0261 LATIN SMALL LETTER SCRIPT G) 02:20
Hmm... Seems to work with camelia (but not in my current version). 02:21
lichtkind BenGoldberg, thanks for syntax but i actually didnt wanted expand much into it :) 02:22
jeturcotte, sorry i nevr heard of any docs about it
jeturcotte hm... seems heavily relied on in some of the core packages w/perl6, but I can't find any reference to how it works
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lichtkind jeturcotte, maybe check chatlogs of this channel to see when jnthn is around 02:24
he is the author
lucs (oops, it appears I has accidentally entered some kind of invisible combining character -- all is well) 02:27
BenGoldberg github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/d...n#bindattr 02:28
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jeturcotte oooh! 02:32
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jeturcotte thank you; I think that tells me what I needed to know 02:35
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timotimo äh 02:45
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lucs m: say <a s d f>.grep({$_ !~~ /d/}); # Okay, gives (a s f), but can it be usefully shortened? 02:56
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(a s f)␤»
lucs (but not golfbufscated) 02:57
*golfbuscated 02:58
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lucs (golbfuscated? Yeah, musnt' do that) 03:12
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Herby_ Good evening, everyone! 03:33
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Herby_ m: my @x <== 1..5; say @x; 03:35
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4 5]␤»
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Skarsnik Good night #perl6 03:35
Herby_ night!
m: my @x = 1..5; @x ==> @y ==> print; 03:36
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_wK5uHrZF_␤Variable '@y' is not declared␤at /tmp/_wK5uHrZF_:1␤------> 3my @x = 1..5; @x ==> 7⏏5@y ==> print;␤»
Herby_ m: my @x = 1..5; @x ==> my @y ==> print;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/XbmGbydASH␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix => instead␤at /tmp/XbmGbydASH:1␤------> 3my @x = 1..5; @x ==> my @y ==>7⏏5 print;␤»
Herby_ m: my @y; my @x = 1..5; @x ==> @y ==> print;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/sbcExETgwM␤Unsupported use of bare "print"; in Perl 6 please use .print if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &print to refer to the function as a noun␤at /tmp/sbcExETgwM:1␤----…»
Herby_ m: my @y; my @x = 1..5; @x ==> @y; say @y; 03:37
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4 5]␤»
Herby_ m: my @y; my @x = 1..5; @x ==> @y ==> .print;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/BgUf46AnfK␤Sorry, do not know how to handle this case of a feed operator yet.␤at /tmp/BgUf46AnfK:1␤------> 3y @y; my @x = 1..5; @x ==> @y ==> .print7⏏5;␤»
Herby_ not sure who maintains this: en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Perl_6_Progr..._and_Feeds
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Herby_ but the example with @x ==> @y ==> print doesn't seem to work currently 03:37
unless I'm fudging something up 03:38
m: my @y; my @x = 1..5; @x ==> @y ==> &print;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/GCvIZEisqU␤Sorry, do not know how to handle this case of a feed operator yet.␤at /tmp/GCvIZEisqU:1␤------> 3y @y; my @x = 1..5; @x ==> @y ==> &print7⏏5;␤»
Herby_ m: my @x = 1..5; my @y; @x ==> map {$_ * 2} ==> @y; say @y; 03:39
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«[2 4 6 8 10]␤»
Herby_ m: my @x = 1..5; my @y; @x ==> map {$_ * 2} ==> @y; @x ==>> @y ==> @z; say @z; 03:41
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/bNa57y4EA9␤Only identical operators may be list associative; since '==>>' and '==>' differ, they are non-associative and you need to clarify with parentheses␤at /tmp/bNa57y4EA9:1␤------> 3; @x ==> map {$…»
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Herby_ m: my @x = 1..5; my @y; my @z; @x ==> map {$_ * 2} ==> @y; @x ==>> @y ==> @z; say @z; 03:42
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/sEZewlXl7r␤Only identical operators may be list associative; since '==>>' and '==>' differ, they are non-associative and you need to clarify with parentheses␤at /tmp/sEZewlXl7r:1␤------> 3; @x ==> map {$…»
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Herby_ m: my @x = 1..5; my @y; my @z; @x ==> map {$_ * 2} ==> @y; @x ==>> @y; say @y; 03:43
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ZZGkyPxdAi␤==>> feed operator not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/ZZGkyPxdAi:1␤------> 3; @x ==> map {$_ * 2} ==> @y; @x ==>> @y7⏏5; say @y;␤»
Herby_ m: my $x = gather { take 5; } say $x; 03:44
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/HBxQHFKJ9o␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at /tmp/HBxQHFKJ9o:1␤------> 3my $x = gather { take 5; }7⏏5 say $x;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper…»
Herby_ m: my $x = gather { take 5; }; say $x;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(5)␤»
Herby_ m: my @x = gather for 1..5 { take $_ * 2; }; say @x; 03:45
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«[2 4 6 8 10]␤»
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Herby_ m: my @a = 1, 2; my @b = 2, 3; my @c = @a X+ @b; say @c; 03:49
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«[3 4 4 5]␤»
Herby_ m: my @a = 1, 2; my @b = 2, 3; my @c = @a X* @b; say @c;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«[2 3 4 6]␤»
Herby_ m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my @b = 2, 3; my @c = @a X* @b; say @c;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«[2 3 4 6 6 9]␤»
Herby_ m: my $options = 1 | 2 | 3 | 4; if $options == 2 { say "its equal to 2"; }; 03:51
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«its equal to 2␤»
Herby_ m: my $options = 1 | 2 | 3 | 4; if $options == 6 { say "its equal to 2"; }; 03:52
camelia ( no output )
Herby_ well thats pretty handy
dumb question here... but can perl 6 be used as a functional programming language? 03:58
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Herby_ I've just started reading into functional programming and am trying to get a better grasp on it 03:58
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Juerd Perl6 implements some ideas from functional programming but it's not purely a functional programming language. There are mutable variables and side-effects that you'd need to avoid if you want to keep everything functional... 04:01
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Herby_ thanks, that makes sense 04:02
Juerd m: @fib = 1, 1, *+* ... Inf; @fib[4] = 42; say @fib[^10]; 04:03
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/DKrWlfjeul␤Variable '@fib' is not declared␤at /tmp/DKrWlfjeul:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5@fib = 1, 1, *+* ... Inf; @fib[4] = 42; ␤»
Juerd m: my @fib = 1, 1, *+* ... Inf; @fib[4] = 42; say @fib[^10];
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(1 1 2 3 42 8 13 21 34 55)␤»
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Herby_ as a learning exercise, I'm trying to do "99 problems of Haskell" in Perl 6 04:05
wiki.haskell.org/H-99:_Ninety-Nine...l_Problems
how do I slice an array? For instance if I had an array of @array = <james peter robert sally> and I wanted to get the second to last value 04:06
Juerd Interesting. Are you documenting your answers somewhere?
Herby_ just started about 10 minutes ago :)
but I should try to document
Juerd say: my @a = <j p r s>; say @a[*-1];
m: my @a = <j p r s>; say @a[*-1];
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«s␤»
Juerd m: my @a = <j p r s>; say @a[*-2]; 04:07
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«r␤»
Juerd etc.
Herby_ is there a simple explanation of the * operator?
Juerd Which one? ;)
Herby_ lol
@a[*-2]
I see the * operator used a lot but I'm not really grasping when/why to use it 04:08
Juerd That's the whatever operator. I'm looking for a doc link for you
doc.perl6.org/type/Whatever
Basically, * + 2 is turned into { $_ + 2 }
Herby_ ok. how is that working with your @a[*-2] example? 04:09
Juerd m: my $square = * * *; say $square(4);
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ozsJ1SN3wN line 1␤␤»
Juerd m: my $times = * * *; say $times(4, 3); 04:10
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«12␤»
Juerd Forgot that each * is its own argument :)
Herby_: The [ ] operator, when given a WhateverCode, calls that code with the number of elements in the array as its argument.
Herby_ m: my $squares = * ** *; say $squares(2,3);
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«8␤»
Herby_ ah ok 04:11
m: my @array = <james robert sally jesse raphael>; say @array[*-1]; 04:12
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«raphael␤»
Herby_ m: my @array = <james robert sally jesse raphael>; say @array[-1];
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_BDSq1k_7j␤Unsupported use of a negative -1 subscript to index from the end; in Perl 6 please use a function such as *-1␤at /tmp/_BDSq1k_7j:1␤------> 3ert sally jesse raphael>; say @array[-1]7⏏5;␤»
Juerd m: my $year = 2016; .say for sort map *.value.tail, classify *.month, grep *.day-of-week == 5, Date.new("$year-01-01") .. Date.new("$year-12-31");
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(2016-01-29)␤(2016-02-26)␤(2016-03-25)␤(2016-04-29)␤(2016-05-27)␤(2016-06-24)␤(2016-07-29)␤(2016-08-26)␤(2016-09-30)␤(2016-10-28)␤(2016-11-25)␤(2016-12-30)␤»
Herby_ that makes sense
Juerd Those are the last fridays of each month of 2016
Herby_ that is pretty slick
Juerd Note how for example *.value.tail could also have been written as { *.value.tail }
NO. I should really go to bed. 04:13
Note how for example *.value.tail could also have been written as { $^month.value.tail }
Herby_ what is the $^month doing for you? specifically the '^' 04:14
Juerd $^foo is an implicitly declared argument
Herby_ hmm ok
Juerd They're sorted, so $^ape comes before $^beer, even if you have $^beer earlier in your code.
m: my $sub = -> $foo, $bar { say "$foo/$bar" }; say $sub(42, 23); 04:15
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«42/23␤True␤»
Juerd m: my $sub = { say "$^foo/$^bar" }; say $sub(42, 23);
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«23/42␤True␤»
Herby_ that hurts my brain 04:16
let me take a look
Juerd m: my $sub = (* ~ "/" ~ *).say; say $sub(42, 23);
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«42/23␤True␤»
Juerd I'm off to bed. Can't think straight and probably shouldn't try explaining things right now :)
Herby_ hah well thanks for the help, have a good night! 04:17
m: my @array = <1 2 3 4 5>; say @array.last; 04:19
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«Method 'last' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/opnFGRlojB line 1␤␤»
Juerd Try .tail
Herby_ m: my @array = <1 2 3 4 5>; say @array[*-1]
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«5␤»
Herby_ m: my @array = <1 2 3 4 5>; say @array.tail
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(5)␤»
Herby_ m: my @array = <1 2 3 4 5>; say @array.tail; say @array;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(5)␤[1 2 3 4 5]␤»
Herby_ :)
Juerd Also, try to use more creative values, so you know that what you're getting is actually your value, not the index or something 04:20
Herby_ lol good point
maybe I should go to bed too
and I'll try documenting my fledgling attempt at "99 problems of Haskell/Perl 6"
Juerd Good night :) 04:21
Herby_ night!
ugexe m: my &tap = -> $s { $s.say }; my $s = Supplier.new; $s.?blah.Supply.act(&tap); # bug? 04:22
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
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Herby_ m: my @list = <james sally jesse raphael>; say @list.tail; 04:27
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(raphael)␤»
Herby_ m: my @list = <james sally jesse raphael>; say @list[*-1]; 04:28
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«raphael␤»
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Herby_ m: my @a = <1 2 3>; my @b = <1 2 3>; if @a eq @b { say "they are equal" }; 04:36
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«they are equal␤»
Herby_ m: my @a = <1 2 3>; my @b = <3 2 1>; if @a eq @b { say "they are equal" }; 04:37
camelia ( no output )
Herby_ m: my @a = <1 2 3 2 1>; if @a eq @a.reverse { say "the list is a palindrome" };
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«the list is a palindrome␤»
Herby_ m: my @a = <1 2 3 2 1>; if @a == @a.reverse { say "the list is a palindrome" };
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«the list is a palindrome␤»
Juerd m: my @a = <1 2 3 2 1>; my @b = <x x x x x>; if @a == @b { say "the lists have the same number of elements" } 04:38
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«the lists have the same number of elements␤»
Juerd !
Herby_ doh
I'm sure that would have bit me at some point in time, thanks for pointing it out 04:39
Juerd Do positive *and* negative tests :)
Herby_ m: my @a = <x x x x x>; if @a eq @a.reverse { say "the list is a palindrome" }; 04:40
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«the list is a palindrome␤»
Herby_ lol
i seriously need to go to bed
m: my @a = <x x x y y>; if @a eq @a.reverse { say "the list is a palindrome" };
camelia ( no output )
Juerd eqv 04:41
Herby_ but I shall press on, for science
m: my @list = (1, 2, 3, (4,5), 6); say @list.flatten; 04:44
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«Method 'flatten' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/wemZZmAXUy line 1␤␤»
Herby_ m: my @list = (1, 2, 3, (4,5), 6); say @list.flat;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 (4 5) 6)␤»
sortiz Herby: Try @a.List.flat 04:45
Herby_ m: my @list = (1, 2, 3, (4,5), 6); say @list.List.flat;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 4 5 6)␤»
skids m: my @list := (1, 2, 3, (4,5), 6); say @list.flat
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 4 5 6)␤»
Herby_ works like a charm, thanks
why is that .List needed? 04:46
skids Arrays itemize their elements automatically. 04:47
As if they all had $ in front.
Herby_ ok 04:48
On Problem 8 of "99 problems of haskell" and this one is tripping me up
eliminate consecutive duplicates of a list of elements, with the order unchanged 04:49
so <a a b c c a d> should output <a b c a d>
sortiz And using := you are "binding" the List, avoiding the Array.
Juerd Herby_: .squish 04:50
skids m: (1,1,2,2,1,1,3).squish.say; 04:51
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(1 2 1 3)␤»
Herby_ m: my @list = <a a b c c a d>; say @list.squish;
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(a b c a d)␤»
Herby_ thats built in? nice
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ugexe is there a phaser that fires inside a loop on LAST but also if the loop is left via a return? 04:57
skids m: sub a ($leaveat) { for (0..4) { return if $leaveat; LEAVE { "left".say } } }; a(2); a(5); 05:00
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«left␤left␤»
skids oh nm.
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Quom__ m: my @list = <a a b c c a d>; my $last; @list = eager gather for @list { take $last = $_ unless $last === $_ }; say @list 05:19
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«[a b c a d]␤»
Quom__ m: my @list = <a a b c c a d>; my $last; @list.=map:{ $last = $_ unless $last === $_ }; say @list 05:20
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«[a b c a d]␤»
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gfldex m: dd so any((Nil, (Nil, Nil))) 08:40
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
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moritz m: say so (Nil, Nil) 09:09
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«True␤»
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wollmers hello rakudistas 09:29
moritz \o wollmers
nine Good morning!
09:30 schnuppi left
wollmers moritz: What's the current policy regarding changes of spec-tests and/or specs? 09:30
nine wollmers: from the backlog: we still have to establish good practices with regard to fixing spectests. On the one hand the 6.c tests are frozen, on the other hand straight forward bugs in there may be negotiable.
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moritz wollmers: it's not really ironed out 09:30
wollmers: is there a particular change you have in mind?
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moritz adding tests for stuff that already works and that isn't controversial or experimental should be fine, for example 09:31
nine wollmers: 6.d spec tests are there for the changing, but we haven't decided yet how to implement the distinction :) docs/language_versions.md is a proposal that's in discussion
wollmers moritz: there is a minor/cosmetic with sprintf and the binary format. IMHO the spec-test are wrong. 09:32
moritz wollmers: does rakudo implement the wrong tests?
wollmers P6: my uint64 $z = +^0;say sprintf("%064b",$z); 09:33
moritz m: my uint64 $z = +^0;say sprintf("%064b",$z);
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000-1␤»
moritz eeks
if that's what the test expects, feel free to fix it :-) 09:34
wollmers moritz: try it with uint8. Or try the same in Perl5 (which does it IMHO correct).
As a pull request? Or directly with an inactivated test? 09:36
moritz wollmers: the latter 09:37
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stmuk__ .tell zoffix the perl6.org home page link to stevemynott.blogspot.com/2016/01/fo...ineup.html wrongly points to stevemynott.blogspot.com/feeds/1832...ts/default .. AFAIK it's not my problem with the feed :) but if it is bounce to back to me 09:39
yoleaux stmuk__: I'll pass your message to zoffix.
moritz stmuk__: why not simply fix it yourself?
stmuk__: it's in a public repo to which you should have push access 09:40
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stmuk__ I'm not really a client side dev 09:45
moritz stmuk__: this is just changing an URL in a text file
stmuk__: get over your self-categorization
stmuk__ is it? I'd have assumed it was an ajax call 09:46
moritz find the location with 'git grep stevemynott'
edit the file, fix it, commit, push
bartolin_ by the way, there is also RT #123979 for problems with %064b in sprintf
stmuk__ I think it's more likely to be misparsing the pl6anet.org/atom.rss feed 09:47
moritz stmuk__: oh wait, is this in the feed box? sorry, I thought it was hard-coded
stmuk__: that might be non-trivial, sorry
stmuk__ yeah that's my guess too .. I'll look anyway
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stmuk__ it's probably out by one in some data structure parsing in javascript in some nasty way 09:48
moritz it's picking up the first <link>, it should pick up <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" 09:50
stmuk__ actually it looks like CSS :/
moritz waits for XLST 09:52
stmuk__ does Awful Hack (tm) with source feed 09:53
hmmm something seems to be cached 09:55
dalek c: 659c832 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
Typo (while → whole)
 09:57
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wollmers How can I call a method of a class fully qualified, i.e. like Perl5 A::B->foo() 09:59
nine wollmers: just the same AFAIK, but what are you actually trying to do? 10:02
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stmuk__ .tell zoffix I hacked the feed to fix it .. root issue is < moritz> it's picking up the first <link>, it should pick up <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" 10:03
yoleaux stmuk__: I'll pass your message to zoffix.
wollmers If I have two packages with the same method names, and I won't instantiate an object.
stmuk__ moritz++
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nine That's really just A::B.foo() 10:04
wollmers nine: thx, will try. Missing examples for call variants in docs. 10:05
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AlexDaniel m: say <a s d f>.grep({$_ !~~ /d/}); 10:08
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(a s f)␤»
stmuk__ oh the atom.rss parsing is in perl
:D
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AlexDaniel m: say <a s d f>.grep: {!/d/} 10:09
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(a s f)␤»
AlexDaniel lucs: ↑ ?
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moritz m: say <a s d f>.grep: none('d') 10:10
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(a s f)␤»
AlexDaniel nice
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AlexDaniel m: say <a s d f>.grep: ‘d’ # too bad you cannot invert this easily 10:13
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(d)␤»
lizmat AlexDaniel: invert? not sure what you mean? 10:15
AlexDaniel lizmat: so that it finds a s f instead of d
m: say <a s d f>.grep: * !~~ ‘d’ 10:16
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«(a s f)␤»
AlexDaniel well perhaps this is easy enough
lizmat AlexDaniel: I have been thinking about a .filter counterpart, like .split and .comb are counterparts 10:19
masak good antenoon, #perl6 10:22
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travis-ci Doc build passed. Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev 'Typo (while → whole)' 10:22
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/101384069 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/d19f3...9c83296a94
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nine Is there a way to replace a class' method in a lexical scope? With augment I seem to only be able to add methods. 10:33
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lizmat nine: subclass in a scope with that method ? 10:34
or mixin a role with but ?
nine When it's a static method? 10:35
(in Rakudo::Internals)
lizmat m: my $a = 42 but role { method gist { "The Answer" } }; say $a
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«The Answer␤»
lizmat m: my $a = 42 but role { method gist { "The Answer" } }; say +$a 10:36
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«The Answer␤»
lizmat hmmm...
m: my $a = 42 but role { method gist { "The Answer" } }; say $a.Str
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«42␤»
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 061cbe2 | (Steve Mynott)++ | fetch-recent-blog-posts.pl:
selector now pulls first 'text/html' link to fix wrong link with a blogger.com site
 10:37
lizmat stmuk__++ 10:38
nine stmuk__: is the ".broked" in line 14 really deliberate? 10:39
m: multi sub foo("foo") { say "outer" }; sub bar() { foo("foo"); }; { multi sub foo("foo") { say "inner"; }; sub bar() { foo("foo") }; { bar; } } 10:43
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«outer␤»
nine lizmat: ^^^ this is the actual problem I'd like to solve. Overwriting the multi sub in the inner lexical scope doesn't seem to work
That means that I cannot replace multi sub INITIALIZE_DYNAMIC('$*ARGFILES') in the CORE.d setting
lizmat I see 10:44
maybe directly modify using the MOP ?
moritz m: multi sub foo("foo") { say "outer" }; sub bar() { foo("foo"); }; { multi sub foo("foo") { say "inner"; }; sub bar() { say "inner bar"; foo("foo") }; { bar; } }
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«inner bar␤outer␤»
lizmat hmmm... but that wouldn't be lexical :-( 10:45
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moritz m: multi sub foo("foo") { say "outer" }; sub bar() { foo("foo"); }; { only sub foo("foo") { say "inner"; }; sub bar() { say "inner bar"; foo("foo") }; { bar; } } 10:45
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«inner bar␤inner␤»
[Tux] csv-ip5xs 50000 18.233 18.113 10:46
test 50000 23.223 23.104
test-t 50000 12.669 12.550
csv-parser 50000 50.363 50.244
lizmat moritz: afraid it will have to be a multi
nine Yep. Otherwise we kill all other dynamic variables
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lizmat well, perhaps we will have to abandon the INITIALIZE_DYNAMIC mechanism then 10:47
it was an easy and elegant hack at the time, but it was that
nine m: multi sub foo("foo", Version) { say "outer" }; sub bar() { foo("foo", Version); }; { multi sub foo("foo", v6.d) { say "inner"; }; sub bar() { foo("foo", v6.d) }; { bar; } } 10:48
camelia rakudo-moar a28270: OUTPUT«inner␤»
nine Maybe use the Perl version as a tie breaker?
stmuk__ nine: errrm
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lizmat nah, maybe we just need a Rakudo::Internals.REGISTER-DYNAMIC('$*ARGFILES', { .... } ) 10:49
and have DYNAMIC look in there
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 3929453 | (Steve Mynott)++ | fetch-recent-blog-posts.pl:
remove debugging url nine++
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nine lizmat: that was my second idea. But then we'd have to replace REGISTER-DYNAMIC in the 6.d setting, hence my question on how to do that lexically :) 10:49
lizmat mmm.. REGISTER-DYNAMIC could take the current $*PERL as an additional key 10:51
and the associated LOOKUP-DYNAMIC could use the current $*PERL also as a key ? 10:52
if not found with $*PERL key, then try without ?
I think I could make that work
unless you want to do it, nine
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dalek kudo/nom: f0cddab | lizmat++ | src/core/ (5 files):
Move MAKE-ABSOLUTE-PATH to Rakudo::Internals
 10:54
nine lizmat: I really don't want to let myself be dragged into another coding day. I haven't been to the airfield in two months, so I'll gladly let you take this one :) 10:55
AlexDaniel lizmat: perhaps it would make sense to have filter
nine I'll push my current changes
lizmat nine: will do, you deserve some flying time!
AlexDaniel lizmat: but I believe that there are other more important things to focus on… :)
lizmat AlexDaniel: wouldn't want to do this until we have a working 6.d dev model anyway :-)
nine no dalek? 10:56
anyway, pushed
dalek kudo/language_versions: d43a998 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (5 files):
First attempt at adding a CORE.d setting
 10:58
kudo/language_versions: cba6766 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (8 files):
Bring back IO::CatPath and IO::CatHandle in 6.d

nine@sphinx:~> perl6 -e 'IO::ArgFiles.new;' nine@sphinx:~> perl6 -e 'use v6.d; IO::ArgFiles.new;' Could not find symbol '&ArgFiles'
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lizmat nine: it's correct that you didn't touch the JVM makefile ? 11:01
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nine lizmat: yes, that's still TODO 11:12
lizmat okidok
Juerd Is .flat on an Array effectively a no-op? 11:13
moritz Juerd: I don't think so
m: my @a = [(1, 2), (3, 4)]; say @a.perl; say @a.flat.perl 11:14
camelia rakudo-moar f0cdda: OUTPUT«[(1, 2), (3, 4)]␤($(1, 2), $(3, 4)).Seq␤»
moritz huh, why does that itemize the sublists?
that looks vaguely buggy to me
dalek kudo/nom: 807bf71 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (4 files):
Move MAKE-BASENAME to Rakudo::Internals
Juerd 05:47 < skids> Arrays itemize their elements automatically.
05:47 < skids> As if they all had $ in front.
That's why I was asking...
moritz ah, right 11:15
m: my @a; @a[0] := (1, 2); @a[1] := (3, 4); say @a.perl; say @a.flat.perl
camelia rakudo-moar f0cdda: OUTPUT«[(1, 2), (3, 4)]␤((1, 2), (3, 4)).Seq␤»
Juerd But given this, I don't see much value in allowing .flat on them. It's just confusing if it returns practically the same, unflattened, thing...
AlexDaniel Juerd: rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=127121 11:16
AlexDaniel is a bot that does efficient lookups on rt :) 11:17
Juerd It could warn that you want @array.List.flat, or it could just delegate to that because it's the only sensible thing to do anyway... Or there might be some surprising use for @array.flat after all :)
nine m: my @a = 1, (2, 3), 4; dd @a.List.flat 11:19
camelia rakudo-moar f0cdda: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4).Seq␤»
AlexDaniel yeah, I'd appreciate if it dwimmed
nine Juerd: is $a.flat useless? 11:20
lizmat m: use nqp; say nqp::getcomp('perl6').language_version # nine, does that give the right answer when in 6.d setting ?
camelia rakudo-moar f0cdda: OUTPUT«6.c␤»
nine lizmat: not yet
lizmat ok
nine I really hacked it only far enough to demonstrate a nested 6.d setting
lizmat I'll make the version parameter obligatory then
Juerd nine: I see what you did there. You reworded my question, basically saying "what do you think?"... But sorry, I have no idea if it's useful :) 11:21
nine We can easily pass v6.d or even "6.d" or just "d" from the .d setting
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lizmat yeah, but more importantly, we need that to work for automatic selection of the right dynamic 11:21
11:22 _nadim left
nine Juerd: point is: $a could be anything. Could be an Array or a List or something else. 11:22
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lizmat nine: also, I guess we won't be able to have base values of dynamic variables live in PROCESS:: 11:22
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lizmat nine: they would need to live higher, as PROCESS:: will be the same between settings, I suppose 11:23
Juerd nine: That's not a point. What's your actual point?
nine Juerd: Array.flat has to be there, so the user doesn't have to care what kind of iterable she got. And Arrays are speced as itemizing their contents, so it may not just go ahead and pretend that they arent. 11:26
11:26 _nadim left
nine lizmat: we will stumble upon lots of questions like that in the coming weeks :) But yes, it seems like we're gonna need some kind of lexical scoping for those dynamic variables... Could also be that it's gonna be some case by case decisions. 11:28
Juerd nine: But that does mean that there's a case where .flat is unlikely to dwim, or do anything useful really.
nine: It could provide a helpful warning, or just do the intended thing.
lizmat nine: testing $*ARGFILES living in SETTING now
that's the only one for now that would need this for sure, I guess 11:29
Juerd Especially if this is unintended fallout from design decisions, special casing it would be fine imho
nine Juerd: just because you would like .flat to flatten your array's items, doesn't mean that's the only use case. In other cases, users may actually want to flatten Lists but keep itemized values intact. If we ignored the itemization, that'd be quite impossible to do.
Juerd nine: What's the use case for .flat on an array, then? 11:30
nine lizmat: $*PERL will need to be different, too :) You really want $*PERL.version to give you 6.d in 6.d code :)
lizmat nine: yeah, but that's dependent on the nqp code I just posted anyway
Juerd We've already had several people running into this violation of the least surprise thing, some immediately considering it a bug. 11:31
nine Or....actually it's gonna be more complicated than that. The 6.c setting will have to know that, too. Because there will be some cases where the nested setting trick will just not be enough.
timotimo does that mean we'll get a $*COMPILER.supported-versions list/set/something?
lizmat nine: so making that work, will automagically fix $*PERL.version as well
nine In any case I'm gonna leave this highly interesting discussion and be afk for a couple of hours :) Bye. 11:32
lizmat nine++ # merry flying
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lizmat m: dd (1,(2,3),4).flat, [1,(2,3),4].flat # seems inconsistent to me 11:32
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4).Seq␤(1, $(2, 3), 4).Seq␤»
lizmat but TimToady will have a reason for this behaviour, I assume... 11:33
timotimo hm. 11:34
is there actually a way to suppress a "potential difficulties" message?
i thought "# OK" might do it, but it doesn't 11:35
Juerd If there isn't, I'd like to propose "no worries;" ;-)
timotimo ah
Juerd That was not an answer :)
timotimo that doesn't suppress that particular warning though
m: 01234 11:36
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6.␤ Please use 0o1234 if you mean that.␤ at /tmp/NNuiJlLiKh:1␤ ------> 03012347⏏5<EOL>␤WARNINGS for /tmp/NNuiJlLiKh:␤Useless use of constant integer 1234 in si…»
Juerd Oh, worries.pm already exists? /me goes to look for what it does
timotimo worries.pm doesn't exist, but we do have that pragma
AlexDaniel .u ¯ 11:37
yoleaux U+00AF MACRON [Sk] (¯)
Juerd Ah, assuming a .pm exits is probably a p5ism
timotimo yeah :)
AlexDaniel m: say ‘¯’.uniname.say
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«MACRON␤True␤»
Juerd Where we keep loading strict.pm :(
AlexDaniel m: say ‘¯’.uniname
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«MACRON␤»
Juerd worries is not documented
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dalek c: 9e44aa1 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/unicode_texas.pod:
Make it clear that “⁻” is a minus and “¯” is macron
 11:44
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stmuk__ m: pl6anet.org/atom.xml 12:03
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/NTFLzVtNzZ␤Confused␤at /tmp/NTFLzVtNzZ:1␤------> 3http:7⏏5//pl6anet.org/atom.xml␤ expecting any of:␤ colon pair␤»
stmuk__ oops 12:04
m: {no worries; say 0123}
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6.␤ Please use 0o123 if you mean that.␤ at /tmp/TVxLHdQtcU:1␤ ------> 3{no worries; say 01237⏏5}␤123␤»
sortiz .tell lizmat TimToady should comment on Array::flat, the recent Day 15 advent affirms that "Simple arrays could be flattened with the .flat method" 12:08
yoleaux sortiz: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
lizmat .botsnack 12:09
yoleaux :D
12:08Z <sortiz> lizmat: TimToady should comment on Array::flat, the recent Day 15 advent affirms that "Simple arrays could be flattened with the .flat method"
lizmat alas, one cannot tell TimToady that he should do anything :-)
or anybody else for that matter :-)
DrForr Grumble. I found this once before... What's a module that modifies existing grammar? I thought masak's 007 did that, but I might have been wrong.
AlexDaniel DrForr: any Slang:: module does 12:10
DrForr Slang, thanks.
Knew there was a keyword...
funrep how do i check equality of strings?
DrForr Ah, Slang::Tuxic was what I was after. 12:11
AlexDaniel funrep: ｢eq｣
DrForr Just *one* page down.
AlexDaniel m: say ‘one’ eq ‘one’
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«True␤»
DrForr And incidentally Travis is now enabled for Readline.
funrep aah, tried eq(x,y) and x.eq(y) :P thanks!
CIAvash AlexDaniel: What do you think about an empty circle as whatever? 🞅 12:12
AlexDaniel m: say [eq] ‘one’, ‘one’
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«True␤»
AlexDaniel m: say &infix:<eq>(‘one’, ‘one’)
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«True␤»
AlexDaniel funrep: ↑ there are other ways as well :) 12:14
.u 🞅
yoleaux No characters found
funrep interesting! :)
AlexDaniel m: say ‘🞅’.uniname
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«MEDIUM BOLD WHITE CIRCLE␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ‘🞆’.uniname # so ok, perhaps bold circle is sometimes not enough 12:15
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«BOLD WHITE CIRCLE␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ‘🞇’.uniname # so we have heavy circles. But what if that's not enough as well? 12:16
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«HEAVY WHITE CIRCLE␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ‘🞈’.uniname # surely we need a very heavy circle!
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«VERY HEAVY WHITE CIRCLE␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ‘🞉’.uniname # and this, just in case…
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«EXTREMELY HEAVY WHITE CIRCLE␤»
AlexDaniel CIAvash: I don't think that it fits very well. What does the circle represent? 12:18
RabidGravy If one applies a role to an object and then add a method to the role subsequently is it possible to have the object compose the new method? 12:21
CIAvash AlexDaniel: I don't know :| I was just thinking of something empty that will be filled or replaced.
AlexDaniel CIAvash: and why exactly this circle? Why not ◌ for example
CIAvash: or ◯ 12:22
or ✪…
CIAvash It just looked better to me :)
AlexDaniel or ⭕ or 🔾 12:23
CIAvash: Don't get me wrong, it's a good suggestion. But it has to have some reasoning behind it, I think 12:24
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AlexDaniel CIAvash: e.g. ✪ is a star, as in whatever “star”. But besides that there's not much to it 12:24
CIAvash: ⍰ looks great, just like in “something empty that will be filled or replaced”. But besides that, again, not so much 12:25
funrep is there any method of arrays that allows you to check if it contains a particular value?
AlexDaniel CIAvash: and I'm not sure if it's a good idea to use APL chars
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AlexDaniel by the way, what about having ⁇ and ‼ as non-texas versions of ?? and !! ? 12:27
sortiz lizmat: The current definition of method flat in core/Array.pm seems suspicious, where are the flattening?? 12:28
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lizmat List.flat probably lives in role Iterable 12:30
RabidGravy funrep, "grep"
m: my @a = <a b c>; say so @a.grep('v') 12:31
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«False␤»
RabidGravy m: my @a = <a b c>; say so @a.grep('b')
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«True␤»
sortiz lizmat: Yes, but Array.flat creates its own Seq, so, @foo.List.flat works, but @foo.flat no. 12:37
lizmat sortiz: yeah, it feels wrong to me too, but I hope TimToady will shine his light on this issue soon :-) 12:38
sortiz lizmat: I hope so, this issue is one of the most asked/questioned in #perl6. Thanks. 12:40
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dalek c: de8fc13 | (Siavash Askari Nasr)++ | doc/Language/unicode_texas.pod:
Change L<> to C<>
 12:49
timotimo so, discourse (the thing jeff atwood started) seems kinda good 12:50
lizmat CIAvash++ # good catch!
timotimo: ??
timotimo see discourse.org 12:51
just a thing i randomly noticed
dalek kudo/nom: 4680dc8 | (Dan Kogai)++ | src/core/Complex.pm:
decent infix:<**> for Complex
 12:52
kudo/nom: 79f77f7 | lizmat++ | src/core/Complex.pm:
Merge pull request #679 from dankogai/nom

decent infix:<**> for Complex
sortiz Need more unicode fonts
[Tux] CSV timings for more languages: gist.github.com/Tux/e2d49c06efcb6a27a75b 12:55
lizmat [Tux]: do they all have the flexibility that Text::CSV provides ?? 12:56
timotimo we still have to get 100x faster at least, i see. 12:57
frankjh Hi, if I have I subroutine which is supposed to operate on various types(CArray, buf, ...) like in sub remove_leading_elems($buf!, Int $num_elems_to_remove) {loop ..} and which should return something of the same type as $buf with the leading elems removed, how to I do that? I thought of querying the type of $buf, make a new thing of that type and then loop over $buf with an offset?
[Tux] lizmat: None :) 12:59
lizmat ok, so the comparison is not entirely fair :-)
timotimo frankjh: you can usually just call .new on the instance to get a new instance of the same type
frankjh timotimo: Wow! Thanks. 13:00
timotimo m: my Buf[int8] $foo .= new(1, 2, 3, 4); say $foo; say $foo.new(9, 9, 9, 9); say $foo 13:01
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«Buf[int8]:0x<01 02 03 04>␤Buf[int8]:0x<09 09 09 09>␤Buf[int8]:0x<01 02 03 04>␤»
timotimo ^- you get the same type and unless the ".new" method is horribly b0rked, it won't change the original
El_Che [Tux]: 3th column is rows? what are the times? max - min ?
AlexDaniel [Tux]: more is better, right?
timotimo El_Che: i think it's run time and run time minus start-up time 13:02
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chienjo Anyone know a solution to 'resolve stage failed for Task::Star: Dependency DBIish is not present in the module ecosystem' when running panda install Tast::Star? 13:02
lizmat no, but it sounds the same problem as CurtisOvidPoe had yesterday, perhaps there's something to be found in the backlog 13:03
El_Che timotimo: java startup time of 0.012? nah 13:04
timotimo chienjo: huh. can you try "panda update", then try installing again?
chienjo timotimo: On it. 13:05
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frankjh If I have a module and an internal helper subroutine like sub remove_leading_elems, is there a way to write a test for that subroutine without exporting it? 13:07
timotimo you can export it under a different tag than ":DEFAULT" or something? 13:08
i don't know if that'll give users that sub if they explicitly ask for :ALL with use
otherwise, "is export(:TESTING)" could do the trick? 13:09
Skarsnik It will :)
I have this in a NC test
m: use NativeCall :TEST; guess_library_name(Str); nativesizeof(int32); 13:10
camelia rakudo-moar 807bf7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FcUkwBxB1O␤Undeclared routine:␤ nativesizeof used at line 1␤␤»
Skarsnik m: use NativeCall :ALL; guess_library_name(Str); nativesizeof(int32);
camelia ( no output )
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frankjh Uh: What is the relation between : TESTING and :TEST. Or is this a name(tag?) which I can choose freeely? 13:12
Skarsnik it's just a name 13:13
frankjh Ok thanks
timotimo other tags commonly suggested are :YOLO, :ORLY, :WAT, and - curiously - :DOOD
[Tux] El_Che, I'll make a HTML page to explain … 13:14
first column: language, second: test script, third: field count (should be 50000), 4th: time taken (lower is better), 5th: time taken without startup time 13:15
lizmat [Tux]: maybe we should also make a P6 version of Text::CSV version with as many features as the C version?
El_Che [Tux]: I apologise. I have the the impression I have asked you a few times and I forget after a while 13:16
[Tux] lizmat, I seriously doubt if that would cause considerable speedup
20% max
timotimo [Tux]: do you currently use native ints in some way?
lizmat timotimo: yes 13:17
[Tux] yes, I think I do
timotimo because native ints - when used with operators and subs and such - are currently a bit pessimized
because they always allocate IntLexRef and will never inline the operators
it may seem counter-intuitive, but could you try replacing int* with Int and re-time?
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frankjh timotimo: I feed old now. None of these acronyms had any meaning for me. ... YOLO was here in Germany "Jugendwort des Jahres 2012" 13:18
timotimo YOLO is the only acronym in that list, actually
chienjo timotimo: Many thanks. running 'Panda update' solves the issue.
timotimo the others are just allcaps because export tags usually look like that
[Tux] timotimo: the repo is on github (eco system), feel free to experiment
timotimo [Tux]: ah, sure. it'll have to wait a few hours, though
frankjh: orly is from that meme/macro with the owl, wat is from that amusing talk about oddities in the javascript language, dood is used pretty much everywhere, but i usually associate it with a Prinny 13:19
frankjh timotimo: I am aging faster--- 13:20
timotimo and, fwiw, "läuft bei dir" was jugendwort des jahres 2015 or 2014 and nobody i know has ever heard that phrase before it got elected
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dalek kudo/nom: 620d893 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (13 files):
Re-imagine lazy init of system dynamic vars

The old system was using MMD to select the right candidate for lazy initialization of system dynamic vars such as $*CWD. This however appeared to be incompatible with the multiple settings idea of being able to support 6.c and 6.d by switching settings.
The new system uses an internal method for registering the initialization of a system dynamic var. And the internal method for looking up system dynamic vars, now uses another initial method to do the lookup and initialization.
So, this should now be ready for settings.d		 13:22
DrForr Aah, finally have an actual bug to report :) #127230 - Pretty trivial, found it while playing.
lizmat .tell nine github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/620d8931c6 13:23
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to nine.
frankjh timotimo: Thanks. I will use "is export(:TESTING)" and stop googling for youth... 13:25
lizmat cycling&
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[Tux] El_Che, does tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed5.html help? 13:49
Skarsnik Wow that freaking slow x) 13:53
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[Tux] but fast compared to when I started testing: tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html 13:55
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awwaiid so "provides" in meta.json -- that needs to have ALL the modules I want installed, not just the ones users reference? 14:00
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Skarsnik yes, all file your modules need to work 14:02
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awwaiid k 14:04
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lucasb o/ suggestion of links to include in the perl6.org/community page: stackoverflow, reddit, facebook group and maybe twitter #perl6 hashtag search 14:14
El_Che [Tux]++
[Tux]: fantastisch canary in the mine 14:15
lucasb And you should probably decide what to do with the perl6-announce mailing list. the last thing that was announced there was parrot, in the last year
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frankjh Hi, if I want to refactor my module, howdo I get rid of old copies installed somewhere? I have changed the name of my module, but my tests still pass.... I did panda install . and panda install git://github uptonow. 14:19
Skarsnik I am not sure panda have a uninstall?
frankjh I saw only --force 14:20
lucasb frankjh: does removing your ~/.perl6 folder helps?
frankjh Will try.
lucasb oh, maybe theres some .precomp hidden dir somewhere. remove those too. 14:21
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lucasb maybe this won't help. those folders only have the precompiled modules. the source modules will still be in the share directory 14:22
RabidGravy is there some way I can over-ride the way that multi dispatch works in a way that is localised to a particular method or sub? 14:23
frankjh lucasb: Yes .perl6 is gone, .precomp gone, but tests still work. Where is /share/ located? 14:24
lucasb mine is at $MOARPREFIX/share/perl6/site. but if you are using rakudobrew, it's somewhere inside ~/.rakudobrew 14:25
sjn \o 14:27
funrep so perl6intro.com recommends .pl6 extension for perl6 files, but ive seen .pm and .pm6 used as well, what is the conventional naming convention?
sjn would love to listen in on toolchain stuff, is there a separate channel for that?
funrep oh perhaps that stands for perl module
lucasb sjn: #perl6-toolchain
El_Che sjn: coming to fosdem?
sjn El_Che: yes 14:28
El_Che \o/
sjn lucasb: thanks! ^^
El_Che: I'll arrive a few days early, even
RabidGravy funrep, it's really a matter of personal taste 14:29
frankjh lucasb: Yes there are references to my code inside ~/.radukobrew, but the filenames are binary.../moar-2015.12/install/share/perl6/site/sources/E458F666F75270A91C1D018AE9D94510E1ED5487 not quite sure howto clean this up.
lucasb frankjh: I think removing install/share/perl6/site will remove all user modules you installed, like panda, etc. 14:30
RabidGravy yeah, I m not quite sure if you simple remove those files 14:31
^ what will happen if ... rather
frankjh RabidGravy: Sounds like reinstalling is the safe path? 14:32
awwaiid [Tux]: would be interesting to see how that game plays with use csv:from<Ruby> :) 14:33
[Tux] sure. Code example please :)
awwaiid you're going off of this csv-game thing, ya? bitbucket.org/ewanhiggs/csv-game 14:34
[Tux] as you can see in speed5.html (at the bottom)
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Skarsnik how the c++ version is slower than the c version x) 14:37
El_Che [Tux]: startup time on java is without jvm startup? 14:38
[Tux] the clean startup is </dev/null, that time is then subtracted from the </tmp/hello.csv in column5 14:39
El_Che i see
frankjh I removed ~/.radukobrew/moar-2015.12/install/share/perl6/site, reinstalled panda and Linenoise and my tests are now failing as expected... 14:40
[Tux] hmm, actually it is a bit different. let me see if I can cange that to what I want
lucasb frankjh++ :) 14:41
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RabidGravy frankjh, hopefully uninstall will come along at some point as that is quite a common use-case for developers 14:48
El_Che for everyone actually 14:49
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El_Che a good admin (even admin of your own workstation) don't want ununused old libs all over the place 14:49
lucs class Foo { method postcircumfix:<< >>(Str $s) { $s.uc } }; say Foo.new<"bar">; # How can I fix this, wanting ｢BAR␤｣? 14:50
(And ideally, I'd like to make it invocable as ｢⋯<bar>｣) 14:52
vendethiel lucs: you can't really define operator methods 14:53
lucs Oh :/
vendethiel also, << >> is not what you think it is :)
lucs I guess not :) 14:54
I just concocted what kind of appeared reasonable, hoping you folks could help me fix it.
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vendethiel m: say <<hey you>> 14:54
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«(hey you)␤»
lucs Ah, right. 14:55
vendethiel kinda like <>, but with quoting etc
moritz lucs: << >> as a post-circumfix is not a separate operator, but desugars to { } as a postcircumfix
lucs Basically, what I'm after is a way to have an instance of Class Foo, $foo for example, able to invoke one of its methods taking a string argument, "bar" for example, as ｢$foo<bar>｣ 14:56
Does that make sense? 14:58
moritz m: class Foo { method AT-KEY($bar) { say "|$bar|" } }; Foo.new<blubb>
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«|blubb|␤»
lucs Hmm... Where does that AT-KEY come from (which docs to read?) 14:59
(I'll grep the specs.)
moritz lucs: doc.perl6.org/language/subscripts
Skarsnik wow building the doc is slow x) 15:00
lucs moritz: Thanks. Strange, but 'ack AT-KEY' finds nothing in the specs (S*.pod files) 15:01
moritz lucs: there has to be *something* where doc.perl6.org is better :-)
lucs :)
awwaiid m: class Foo { method say-hi($n) { say "hi $n!" } }; multi sub postcircumfix:<{ }>(Foo $f, $arg) { $f.say-hi($arg) }; Foo.new<bob>; # also works 15:02
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«hi bob!␤»
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lucs awwaiid: Nice, but I'm missing how the ｢<{ }>｣ somehow works when invoked as ｢<⋯>｣ :/ 15:05
lucs saw moritz mention something about desugaring, but doesn't quite understand what it all means. 15:06
moritz lucs: as I said, foo<..> is syntactic sugar for foo{"..."}
lucs Ah, I see, gotcha.
moritz lucs: it's a special rule built into the language
lucs Excellent :-) 15:07
Wow, super neato.
DrForr Do we have doco for Slangs yet? 15:09
awwaiid yep, neato and also very useful to realize it is sugar and not otherwise-special
DrForr (he says, *just* before pulling up d.p6.org...) 15:10
moritz DrForr: I'd be surprised if we did; slangs are very much experimental, afaict
DrForr Not surprising. 15:11
The %*LANG object is rather opaque, I was just going to figure out how to use nqp::atkey() to get at the grammar actions. As I think I need that. 15:12
moritz DrForr: might be easist to look at existing slangs in the ecosystem 15:14
DrForr None of them do.
Skarsnik We can't have link in a table? (pod) 15:15
DrForr At least not that I can tell... Looking again. 15:16
moritz Skarsnik: there are various forms to write tables; I'm sure some of them support links
DrForr Oh, never mind, missed one.
Yay, hacking.
Skarsnik in the pod doc that does not exist? x) 15:17
moritz S26 does exist
Skarsnik The table section is small ~~ 15:22
15:26 pierre-vigier joined
Skarsnik I try to have 15:26
Module name Description
==================================================== ============================================
L<App::Mi6|modules.perl6.org/dist/App::Mi6> Minimal authoring tool for Perl6
but the L<> is not interpreted
interesting, putting a blank line after ==== make the parsin fail x) 15:30
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[Tux] lizmat, tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed5.html <= column 5 now shows the actual processing time 15:32
15:32 espadrine joined 15:33 lucasb left 15:36 sjoshi left 15:38 pjscott joined
funrep gist.github.com/funrep/bf18880254e4355ccae2 could someone explain why $class.puthide prints (Any) and not "foo"? 15:41
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Skarsnik I am not sure you can affect a private in new? 15:43
funrep so i need to define my own new initializing it?
pochi funrep: try to put in a submethod BUILD(:$!hidden, :$!public) {} in your class 15:45
funrep what is the difference between submethod BUILD and method new ? 15:47
mst overriding new is generally to be avoided because you get a lot of machinery for free if you do things via BUILD 15:48
over in perl5 land, the existence of BUILD and BUILDARGS basically means "overriding new is an error" at this point (barring exigent circumstances, as usual for any rule of thumb) 15:49
grondilu is not sure he knows what :$!parameter means 15:50
funrep what does ":" mean?
15:50 zwu left
Skarsnik : named parameter 15:51
pochi m: my $a; say :$a
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'a' passed␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/uWa5k4r8RE line 1␤␤»
pochi m: my $a; :$a
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/vALvXWibSZ:␤Useless use of ":$a" in sink context (line 1)␤»
pochi :-(
15:52 caoutchouc joined
grondilu say it 15:52
pochi m: my $b = "hello"; say (:$b).gist
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«b => hello␤»
grondilu m: my $a; say :$a
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'a' passed␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/UT0vTSoqTS line 1␤␤»
grondilu m: my $a; .say for :$a 15:53
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«a => (Any)␤»
funrep what is a named parameter?
grondilu it's a parameter with a name
funrep or well, a named parameter is a named parameter, but i dont quite understand it is this context
mst funrep: perl6 signatures have both positional and named, so you can supply options by name and etc.
funrep it automagically creates named params for the has'es in the bless method?
s/has'es/attributes 15:54
mst I think that something somewhat equivalent to that happens but I'm fuzzy on the details, sorry
15:54 sammers left, caoutchouc left
mst (I know Moo(se) rather better than perl6 at this point, I'm afraid) 15:54
grondilu m: class A { has $.attr; }; say A.new: :attr("foo"); 15:55
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«A.new(attr => "foo")␤»
grondilu m: class A { has $.attr; }; say A.new(:attr("foo")).attr;
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«foo␤»
Skarsnik m: sub foo (:$a) {say 'foo'}; foo('hello');
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤ in sub foo at /tmp/cQlu1qXyy4 line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/cQlu1qXyy4 line 1␤␤»
Skarsnik m: sub foo (:$a) {say 'foo'}; foo(:a('hello')); 15:56
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«foo␤»
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funrep still same problem gist.github.com/funrep/b6b67edd788a2da663fe 16:00
Skarsnik you have affect $hidden to $!hidden 16:01
pochi you're missing the !'s
Skarsnik or that
funrep now it works awesome! :) 16:02
what is it that BUILD handle that new doesnt?
nine m: dd (1, (2, 3), 4).flat; dd (1, $(2, 3), 4).flat; 16:03
pochi binding of the variables I think
yoleaux 13:23Z <lizmat> nine: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/620d8931c6
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4).Seq␤(1, $(2, 3), 4).Seq␤»
El_Che funrep: everything what new doesn't handle?
mst funrep: the default new() initializes the object, then calls all BUILD submethods from superclass to tip
funrep but why cant you assign private variables in new? or did i miss something
Skarsnik because they are privte x) 16:04
nine lizmat: cooool :) So to override a dynamic, I have to let nqp::getcomp('perl6').language_version give me v6.d?
mst private variables are private to the object - to things called on the object
new() is a class method that -creates- an object
funrep yes but the new method is the objects own method right? so it should have access to private variables?
mst but BUILD() is called -on- the object
no, the new method isn't
it's a class method that acts as a constructor -for- objects
it's called on the class, not the object
llfourn funrep: new is not special in any way other than there's a default for it
mst Class->new results in $obj->BUILD being called 16:05
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mst bah, s/->/./ ;) 16:05
funrep i still dont get why it cant access private variables though, because that's what the whole point of the constructor usually is in other languages ive programmed in
pochi old habits :-)
mst funrep: yes, because their constructor is more equivalent to BUILD 16:06
llfourn funrep: yep. Unfortunetly private perl6 attributes are not like other languages
well maybe fortunetly :P
nine .tell sortiz I doubt that Array.flat's behavior is one of the most asked questions in #perl6. I usually read _all_ of #perl6 and cannot remember it coming up all that often.
yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to sortiz.
mst funrep: if you're trying to do the equivalent of e.g. the constructor() block in ES6 classes, or a ruby initialize method - that's BUILD
funrep i understand that, that's why im asking so i can understand how it works in perl6
so what i new then?
mst funrep: other languages have their 'new' as a language feature, ours is a plain method so you *can* override it
funrep: but generally there's no good reason to 16:07
llfourn funrep: private = can't be set in constructor and can't be seen by .perl and don't have accessors set up by default
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mst llfourn: isn't set by default in the constructor 16:07
llfourn mst: can't be set by bless rather :) 16:08
mst right
but that's not the question at hand really
or at least, I don't think it is :)
funrep: javascript's 'new' is a language feature. ES6's constructor() block in a class declaration is our BUILD
llfourn well the point is that you can't pass the value of a private attribute into new/bless and have it set and attribute :)
mst llfourn: yes, but that's not what we've been discussing for some time now 16:09
llfourn ok I thought it was but I'll lurk more then
mst llfourn: started off with what, the question now is "what's the difference between new and BUILD"
funrep: perl6's new will do bless(), basic attribute population for public attributes, and call BUILD submethods. it's just it didn't -have- to be a hardcoded language feature, so it isn't 16:10
nine: I'm not on crack with the above, right?
zwu after exploration of perl 6, I think it was very attractive as a programming language. But I doubt if it is production ready. The features list for rakodu in perl6.org/compilers/features shows almost completed, but actually not. Such as the module loading support, there are quite a lot NYI (not yet implemented). 16:11
nine RabidGravy: why is uninstall important for developers?
funrep i dont understand how this is "Zero-boilerplate initiazation" as the documents states
mst funrep: it would be expect you've decided to make a private attribute that isn't entirely private
*except
llfourn funrep: tbh I agree with you on that point. If you want to have private attributes that are set by .new args it's not zero boilerplate 16:12
funrep how is it not private? i am printing it but the one who runs the method can have no idea that it prints a private variables (unless they read the source code ofc)
mst personally, if I'm passing it into the constructor, I tend to go for a public-but-readonly attribute
zwu: er, rakudo is only missing the last one in module loading and I'm not even sure what that means anyway 16:13
llfourn tbh that's outdated module loading is pretty solid now
thanks to nine++
funrep so public-but-readonly is possible to specifiy and possible to initialize in the consructor?
mst I'm wondering if that table needs updating
funrep what is the syntax for them? 16:14
llfourn funrep: yep it's the default
has $.a; #public read-only
nine mst: you're right
mst nine: just wanted my working checking, ta
RabidGravy nine, well if you have a module X::Y::Z that is used by X::Y and you change it's name then it's hard to check if you have fixed X::Y properly if you still have an old version of X::Y::Z installed :) 16:15
mst nine: and given the way CUR works, being able to install a version-in-progress and then uninstall it after so nothing else uses it
nine llfourn: if new could automatically initialize private attributes, those private attributes would be part of your class' external interface and you couldn't rename or remove them anymore without your users noticing
funrep is there any syntax for a setter or do you have to define one yourself?
ie read-and-write attributes
16:15 zwu left
llfourn nine: yes I agree with that point :) 16:16
pochi funrep: has $.a is rw, declares a method a that you can read/write from
llfourn nine: I thikn what I was saying that if you want to break that idea you do have to write some boilerplate 16:17
mst yes. but I'm not really sure why you would
funrep pochi: but llfourn said read only was the default?
mst funrep: yes
funrep: hence 'is rw'
pochi funrep: yes, has $.x is the same as has $.x is read-only
nine RabidGravy, mst: thanks
mst funrep: 'is rw' is actual perl6 syntax :)
funrep "rw" == read write? 16:18
or something else?
mst funrep: exactly
funrep but what
mst funrep: 'has $.a is rw' is actual code.
funrep read only != read write
mst funrep: that'll generate an accessor
funrep i hope :P
mst funrep: 'has $.a' <- ro
funrep: 'has $.a is rw' <- rw
funrep aah
okey
pochi funrep: I meant readonly (not read-only)
mst llfourn: I can see a use case of "I want to construct and return an object that mediates for another object and therefore keeps the other object entirely private" 16:19
funrep i read "has $.a is rw" as an actual sentence and not code ;)
Skarsnik you can put class A is rw if you want everything on rw
RabidGravy yeah, bear in mind that it's the generated accessor that is affected to "is rw", the underlying attribute is always read/write
Skarsnik $.a is a method call: $!a is the real symbol 16:20
El_Che Skarsnik: if you're start playing with BUILD, one is oncused by that at the beginning :)
mst it does seem like it'd be helpful to have a trait that lets you can an attribute an init arg but not an accessor, but eh 16:21
awwaiid I bet we could write one in userspace :)
mst almost certainly
llfourn I already have haven't released it yet :)
mst tickles llfourn
awwaiid 'has $!foo is constructable'
llfourn I has 'is param' 16:22
had*
awwaiid is constructable-param-despite-being-private
pochi would like to see something like that in core
llfourn but I'm thinking of changing it to something like has $!attr is public;
mst I quite like constructable actually 16:23
public would imply settable, I think
awwaiid I think 'is public' implies a lifetime after construction
pochi public is confusing imo
llfourn I think that we are conflating "public" with having an accessor set up by default
awwaiid exactly
feedback is that as a casual reader of your code I'd make that conflation
llfourn so you can have a attribute without accessors set up by defaul but it is public 16:24
mst llfourn: if I saw public I'd expect an external was to set it
*way
moritz attributes without accessors can't be public
llfourn hmmm yeah me too I'm not sold either way
mst what we really want is a shorter synonym for constructable 16:25
llfourn moritz: well it depends on your definition of public. I think public means can be seen in .perl and can be set in constructor
mst because just 'param' while neat doesn't imply constructor param
Skarsnik is init
llfourn or I think it could mean that
mst is init feels like bad english to me, but is at least short
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geekosaur newable? 16:25
mst hang on. could we do 'is init-arg' ? 16:26
RabidGravy yes
llfourn yeah that would be consistent with moose
and we could have 'is init-arg("some-alias")'
mst <3
pochi sexy 16:27
llfourn which could be used on $.attrs as well
mst we should probably check it seems equally good to people who didn't come from Moose though
there will be a fair number of us, but it needs to make sense to everybody else too :)
awwaiid seems ok to me, having never seen/used that in moose
mst hrm, would 'is buildarg' or 'is build-arg' be more in keeping with perl6? unsure 16:29
llfourn is 'init-named', 'init-arg', 'new-named','build-named','bless-named','named-in-init'..
mst I'm still drawn to init-arg, but that could be pre-existing bias 16:30
llfourn I think arg makes sense because arg vs param, means from the callers perspective where as param means from the sub's persepective 16:31
funrep can one use given on lists?
llfourn funrep: yes
moritz funrep: yes
m: given <a b c> { say .join }
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«abc␤»
awwaiid nine: I might start needing some common Inline:: things, like ObjectKeeper or trying to factor out some roles. I was thinking Inline::Lang for the namespace -- suggestions?
funrep is it possible to match just first element of a list?
moritz awwaiid: Inline::Base ? 16:32
funrep: sure
awwaiid that would be great too
some are base roles, but some might be utilities
nine If Inline weren't already taken...
mst squints at using 'base' for something other than a superclass
awwaiid maybe those those are Inline::Util if I need
llfourn funrep: there area couple of ways. Most simple is given @list { when .[0] ~~ something } 16:33
mst awwaiid: Inlining::Kit
moritz or given @list[0] {... }
awwaiid Inline:: doesn't even seem like the right thing for these lang integrations in the first place really
but that is getting distracted
moritz Bridge::Perl5?
mst mm. Lang::Foo with an Inline:: wrapper or something would be nice
replace Lang:: with something better
pochi m: my @a = <a b c>; say @a.head
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«(a)␤»
pochi oh, it still returns a list :-( 16:34
funrep llfourn: perfect, thanks!
awwaiid distracted I say!
nine awwaiid: yes, Inline:: is not that good a name. It has seen a lot of marketing though.
awwaiid nine: yeah. Well anyway I'll pick a common spot at random, maybe PR against I::P5. What are you working on lately? 16:35
mst Embedded::Perl5 for the bridge and Embedding:: for the tools would be ok in my head
RabidGravy I had an Inline t-shirt that Ingy auctioed at some yapc years ago 16:36
nine awwaiid: I'd actually like to get support for creating wrappers for submodules out the door. So you use Foo; and will get a Perl 6 Foo class and also Foo::Bar;
awwaiid: but rakudo's core seem to be an infinite time sink
awwaiid nine: my current experiment kinda along those lines is in Ruby I hooked class-creation; you 'use csv:from<Ruby>' and it notices that CSV and CSV::Row, CSV::Table, etc. I had to because stupid ruby doesn't have filenames and class names predictably correspond (csv -> CSV for example) 16:38
nine: but that required hte host language have that class-created hook feature 16:39
er, target lang
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El_Che blogs.perl.org/users/jt_smith/2016/...async.html 17:18
llfourn mst, awwaiid, pochi -- would you expect to see $! attributes with init-arg in .perl? 17:20
(I writing AttrX::InitArg)
mst I wouldn't 17:21
largely because the primary use to me seems to be
method public_handler { return My::PublicHandler.new(:guts(self!guts)) } 17:22
where the guts object isn't meant to be visible outside
llfourn mst: I agree. But it will break .perl's EVALability 17:23
mst oooh
HRM
maybe .gist should exclude it but .perl include? unsure 17:24
llfourn I like that idea. I'll give it a shot. 17:25
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AlexDaniel .u 🄅 17:26
yoleaux U+1F105 DIGIT FOUR COMMA [No] (🄅)
AlexDaniel m: say 🄅 +5;
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«9␤»
AlexDaniel m: say 4, +5;
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«45␤»
17:34 _nadim left, _nadim joined
RabidGravy I know this is is a bit like poking a snake and being surprised at its reaction, but what's this all about? 17:38
m: multi sub trait_mod:<is>(Method:D $m, :$Zub!) { say $m.HOW.can('xFur'); }; class Foo { multi method bar() is Zub { } }
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/0GgKcU1tCz␤Too few positionals passed; expected 3 arguments but got 2␤at /tmp/0GgKcU1tCz:1␤»
AlexDaniel oh finally I can see the colors 17:39
llfourn RabidGravy: I have found that capital letters in trait names is kinda broken
RabidGravy: but not sure if that's what it is
moritz iirc the compiler the case as a heuristic for distinguishing traits and type names 17:40
m: role R { }; class A is R { };
camelia ( no output )
moritz should that warn/error?
RabidGravy ah, no 17:41
moritz "did you mean 'does R'?"
llfourn moritz: but isn't it the case that the 'is' which does .^add_parent is just another trait_mod<is>?
RabidGravy it's the can() on the methods HOW
requires an object orgument, as well as a method name 17:42
but the location of the error is weird
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RabidGravy yeah, is and does are just traits 17:43
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nine awwaiid: the same is quite true for Perl 5 (and Perl 6 for that matter). That's why I compare the list of available symbols before and after loading a module: github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/blob...5.pm6#L785 17:43
llfourn RabidGravy: ah then my problem must have been because I had a type name the same name as my trait name 17:44
RabidGravy yeah that will confuse it I guess
llfourn which now that I say it sounds like a terrible idea
but to be fair it was a trait_mod is on a routine like yours so I didn't think it would try and make the method do it 17:45
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AlexDaniel So I decided to get all proposed unicode things into a list. See this gist and let me know what you think: gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/c89bd2786f9b63f31e4c . If I forgot something then please yell at me :) 17:51
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pmurias AlexDaniel: does the unicode version of ?? !! offer benefits? 17:57
AlexDaniel pmurias: besides being shorter by one character? I'm not sure
pmurias I think one of the goal of ?? !! is to be visible 17:58
AlexDaniel pmurias: but the fact is that there is an operator that exists in the unicode, so I listed it
pmurias * goals
AlexDaniel pmurias: well, weird unicode characters also catch my attention, so I don't think that it is a downgrade :) 17:59
pmurias: but you are right that some of those things are probably a bit too much… :) 18:00
18:01 skids left
AlexDaniel the first part of the list is more like “here we have a character that obviously fits”, not “oh, there's a unicode character for that, LET'S ADD IT NOW!!!” 18:01
18:02 skids joined
grondilu m: say "\u2047" 18:03
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/IwDLeK4uMp␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\u'␤at /tmp/IwDLeK4uMp:1␤------> 3say "\7⏏5u2047"␤ expecting any of:␤ argument list␤ double quotes␤ term␤»
AlexDaniel m: say "\c2047"
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«߿␤»
AlexDaniel m: say "\x2047"
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«⁇␤»
grondilu print "\x2047 \x203C" 18:04
m: print "\x2047 \x203C"
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«⁇ ‼»
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ab6tract those are lot less questionable to me than the bind character 18:06
which i think will be hard to distinguish in many fonts 18:07
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BenGoldberg .u ⁇ ‼ 18:10
yoleaux U+0020 SPACE [Zs] ( )
U+203C DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK [Po] (‼)
U+2047 DOUBLE QUESTION MARK [Po] (⁇)
BenGoldberg .u ₙ 18:12
yoleaux U+2099 LATIN SUBSCRIPT SMALL LETTER N [Lm] (ₙ)
gtodd naïve p6 for sysadmins benchmark: bit.ly/1kY3XTX 18:14
pmurias ab6tract: most unicode symbols look Perl 6 supports look a bit better then the texas variant (at the code of being harder to type), the unicode double question mark/eclamation mark just IMHO looks uglier and makes code harder to read for me
18:16 keix left
ab6tract pmurias: i'm not sold either, but relative to that bind they are clear as day 18:17
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ab6tract .u ≔ 18:17
yoleaux U+2254 COLON EQUALS [Sm] (≔)
ab6tract nearly impossible to make out for me 18:18
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RabidGravy does Signature.ACCEPTS have any role in determining which multi candidate is selrcted? 18:28
still struggling with this
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AlexDaniel ab6tract: well, one good thing about that bind character is that it is as long as regular assignment, so it's going to looking great with vertical alignment. It is pretty sad though that fonts don't render it good, I think that it could have been better 18:32
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AlexDaniel ab6tract: but sure, one could say that it should stand out. And I wont argue! :) 18:32
say $a < $b ¿ 42 ¡ 69 # hehe 18:33
BenGoldberg m: my $y̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆ = 3; dd $y̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆; 18:35
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«Int $y̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆̆ = 3␤»
mspo that did weird things to my client
BenGoldberg And how does it appear on irc.perl6.org? 18:36
AlexDaniel it looks wrong in my browser
BenGoldberg grins
AlexDaniel I have seen that a couple of time – combining characters apply on the next char instead of the previous one… what the? 18:37
times*
BenGoldberg m: say ' 18:39
B􏿽xCC􏿽x9A􏿽xCD􏿽xA3􏿽xCD􏿽xAD􏿽xCD􏿽x97􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCC􏿽x92􏿽xCC􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽x97􏿽xCC􏿽xADE􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCC􏿽x8C􏿽xCD􏿽x92􏿽xCC􏿽x81􏿽xCD􏿽x8C􏿽xCD􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽xA8􏿽xCC􏿽x97􏿽xCD􏿽x8D􏿽xCC􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽x9DF􏿽xCC􏿽x92􏿽xCD􏿽xAF􏿽xCD􏿽x92􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽xA0􏿽xCD􏿽x81􏿽xCD􏿽x93􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽x98􏿽xCC􏿽xA0O􏿽xCC􏿽x9A􏿽xCD􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽xA8􏿽xCD􏿽x97􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCC􏿽x8B􏿽xCD􏿽x84􏿽xCC􏿽x82􏿽xCC􏿽xA8􏿽xCC􏿽xB5􏿽xCC􏿽xAB􏿽xCD􏿽x94􏿽xCD􏿽x93􏿽xCC􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽xA4􏿽xCC􏿽xBAR􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽x91􏿽xCD􏿽x84􏿽xCC􏿽x9B􏿽xCD􏿽xA1􏿽xCC􏿽xA4􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCC􏿽x97E􏿽xCD􏿽x92􏿽xCC􏿽x9A􏿽xCD􏿽xA3􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCD􏿽x86􏿽xCD􏿽x81􏿽xCC􏿽x9E􏿽xCC􏿽xBAH􏿽xCD􏿽x90􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽xA2􏿽xCC􏿽xAE􏿽xCD􏿽x87􏿽xCC􏿽xBAA􏿽xCD􏿽x92􏿽xCD􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽x8B􏿽xCC􏿽xB8􏿽xCC􏿽xAF􏿽xCC􏿽xAF􏿽xCD􏿽x85􏿽xCD􏿽x9A􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCD􏿽x89􏿽xCC􏿽xAD􏿽xCC􏿽x9C􏿽xCC􏿽xAAN􏿽xCD􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽x8C􏿽xCD􏿽x91􏿽xCC􏿽xA7􏿽xCD􏿽xA1􏿽xCC􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽xA0􏿽xCD􏿽x93􏿽xCD􏿽x95􏿽xCC􏿽xB3D􏿽xCC􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽xBA􏿽xCD􏿽x96􏿽xCD􏿽x87:􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽x93􏿽xCD􏿽x84􏿽xCD􏿽xAA􏿽xCD􏿽x9E􏿽xCC􏿽xAC􏿽xCD􏿽x96 􏿽xCD􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽xAE􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCC􏿽x91􏿽xCD􏿽xAC􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCD􏿽x95􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCC􏿽xAE􏿽xCC􏿽xB0􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xAB􏿽xCD􏿽x96c􏿽xCC􏿽x86􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCD􏿽x92􏿽xD2􏿽x89􏿽xCD􏿽x81􏿽xCC􏿽xA1􏿽xCC􏿽xAE􏿽xCC􏿽x97􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCC􏿽xA5􏿽xCC􏿽xB1􏿽xCC􏿽xA5􏿽xCC􏿽xB0􏿽xCC􏿽xACl􏿽xCD􏿽x83􏿽xCD􏿽xAA􏿽xCD􏿽x80􏿽xCD􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xA3􏿽xCC􏿽xBCo􏿽xCD􏿽x97􏿽xCC􏿽x87􏿽xCC􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x8E􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCD􏿽x8B􏿽xCD􏿽xAE􏿽xCC􏿽x93􏿽xCD􏿽x81􏿽xCD􏿽x9C􏿽xCC􏿽xBB􏿽xCC􏿽x9C􏿽xCC􏿽xBB􏿽xCC􏿽xBBs􏿽xCD􏿽xAA􏿽xCD􏿽xA8􏿽xCC􏿽x8D􏿽xCC􏿽x92􏿽xCD􏿽x8B􏿽xCC􏿽xB5􏿽xCC􏿽x96􏿽xCC􏿽xB0􏿽xCD􏿽x95􏿽xCC􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽x9C􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽x99e􏿽xCC􏿽x81􏿽xCC􏿽x83􏿽xCD􏿽x92􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCC􏿽x8F􏿽xCC􏿽x81􏿽xCD􏿽x9E􏿽xCD􏿽x99 􏿽xCC􏿽x84􏿽xCD􏿽xA8􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCD􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽x8D􏿽xCD􏿽x91􏿽xCC􏿽x87􏿽xCD􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽x95􏿽xCC􏿽xAD􏿽xCC􏿽x9D􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xBC􏿽xCD􏿽x93􏿽xCD􏿽x96􏿽xCC􏿽xBCd􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCD􏿽xA4􏿽xCD􏿽xA4􏿽xCD􏿽xA1􏿽xCC􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽x9C􏿽xCC􏿽x9D􏿽xCC􏿽xA6􏿽xCD􏿽x96􏿽xCC􏿽xADo̓
􏿽xCD􏿽xAB􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽x89􏿽xCC􏿽x8E􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽xA5􏿽xCC􏿽x9Eo􏿽xCC􏿽x89􏿽xCC􏿽x9F􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽x9E􏿽xCC􏿽xBB􏿽xCC􏿽xBB􏿽xCC􏿽xB9􏿽xCC􏿽xB9r􏿽xCD􏿽xAD􏿽xCC􏿽xB5􏿽xCC􏿽xA8􏿽xCD􏿽x87􏿽xCC􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽xBA􏿽xCC􏿽xAE􏿽xCC􏿽xBC,􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽x89􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCD􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽xA7􏿽xCD􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽xB7􏿽xCC􏿽xAC􏿽xCC􏿽xB2􏿽xCD􏿽x88􏿽xCC􏿽xA4􏿽xCC􏿽xA4 􏿽xCD􏿽x97􏿽xCC􏿽x8B􏿽xCD􏿽x98􏿽xCC􏿽xA3􏿽xCD􏿽x95􏿽xCC􏿽x9D􏿽xCC􏿽xB3􏿽xCC􏿽x97􏿽xCC􏿽xB2􏿽xCC􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽xA3e􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCC􏿽xBF􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCC􏿽x8B􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCD􏿽x98􏿽xCC􏿽xBCa􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCD􏿽xAF􏿽xCD􏿽xAA􏿽xCD􏿽xA4􏿽xCD􏿽xAC􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCD􏿽x86􏿽xCD􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽xB8􏿽xCC􏿽x99􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCD􏿽x94􏿽xCC􏿽x9C􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xB3􏿽xCC􏿽xBBc􏿽xCC􏿽x83􏿽xCC􏿽x93􏿽xCC􏿽x88􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCD􏿽x97􏿽xCD􏿽x9D􏿽xCD􏿽x81􏿽xCD􏿽x9D􏿽xCC􏿽xA6h􏿽xCC􏿽x86􏿽xCC􏿽xA7􏿽xCD􏿽x89􏿽xCD􏿽x93􏿽xCC􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽xAF􏿽xCC􏿽x9E 􏿽xCD􏿽xAA􏿽xCC􏿽x80􏿽xCC􏿽xB5􏿽xCD􏿽x81􏿽xCD􏿽x87􏿽xCD􏿽x8Dw􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽x97􏿽xCC􏿽x83􏿽xCD􏿽x92􏿽xCC􏿽xB7􏿽xCD􏿽x8F􏿽xCC􏿽x95􏿽xCC􏿽xB2􏿽xCC􏿽xBC􏿽xCC􏿽xAFi􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽x8B􏿽xCD􏿽x80􏿽xCC􏿽x9E􏿽xCC􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽x9C􏿽xCC􏿽xAE􏿽xCC􏿽xA3􏿽xCC􏿽xB0􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCD􏿽x85n􏿽xCC􏿽x81􏿽xCC􏿽x90􏿽xCC􏿽x81􏿽xCD􏿽x86􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽xA2􏿽xCC􏿽xA8􏿽xCC􏿽xAA􏿽xCD􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽xAD􏿽xCC􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽xBC􏿽xCD􏿽x95􏿽xCD􏿽x8Ed􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽x83􏿽xCC􏿽x8F􏿽xCC􏿽x83􏿽xCC􏿽x8D􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCC􏿽xB0􏿽xCC􏿽xA4􏿽xCC􏿽x9D􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCC􏿽xB9􏿽xCD􏿽x95o􏿽xCC􏿽x91􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCD􏿽xA8􏿽xCC􏿽x88􏿽xCC􏿽x84􏿽xCD􏿽xA4􏿽xCC􏿽x9A􏿽xCC􏿽x84􏿽xCC􏿽xB6􏿽xCC􏿽x95􏿽xCC􏿽xBC􏿽xCC􏿽xBA􏿽xCC􏿽xAAw􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCD􏿽xAA􏿽xCC􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x92􏿽xCD􏿽x9D􏿽xCC􏿽x95􏿽xCC􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xBB􏿽xCC􏿽xB1􏿽xCC􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xBA􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCD􏿽x9A􏿽xCC􏿽x99 􏿽xCD􏿽xA4􏿽xCC􏿽x8B􏿽xCC􏿽x8F􏿽xCC􏿽x87􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽xB4􏿽xCC􏿽xBC􏿽xCC􏿽xB0􏿽xCC􏿽xB1􏿽xCD􏿽x88􏿽xCC􏿽xA0&􏿽xCC􏿽xBD􏿽xCD􏿽x83􏿽xCC􏿽x81􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCC􏿽x87􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽x9A􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCC􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽xBA􏿽xCC􏿽x9F􏿽xCC􏿽x9E􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCC􏿽xB3􏿽xCC􏿽xBB􏿽xCC􏿽x99 􏿽xCD􏿽x90􏿽xCC􏿽x8C􏿽xCC􏿽x90􏿽xCC􏿽x8C􏿽xCD􏿽xAC􏿽xCD􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽x82􏿽xCC􏿽xA1􏿽xCD􏿽x9E􏿽xCC􏿽xA1􏿽xCC􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽xBB
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/vtPMfW5A9Q␤Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'" ␤at /tmp/vtPMfW5A9Q:1␤------> 3say '7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ argument list␤ single quotes…»
BenGoldberg e􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCD􏿽xAF􏿽xCC􏿽xBF􏿽xCC􏿽xBD􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽x8F􏿽xCC􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽xB4􏿽xCD􏿽x95􏿽xCD􏿽x96x􏿽xCC􏿽x93􏿽xCD􏿽x83􏿽xCC􏿽xB6􏿽xCC􏿽xAF􏿽xCD􏿽x8Ei􏿽xCD􏿽xAC􏿽xCC􏿽xAC􏿽xCD􏿽x85􏿽xCD􏿽x8D􏿽xCD􏿽x87􏿽xCC􏿽xACt􏿽xCC􏿽x8F􏿽xCD􏿽x91􏿽xCC􏿽x92􏿽xCC􏿽xB6􏿽xCC􏿽xB4􏿽xCD􏿽x88;􏿽xCC􏿽x8D􏿽xCD􏿽xA5􏿽xCC􏿽xBD􏿽xCC􏿽x88􏿽xCD􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽xAA 􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCD􏿽x97􏿽xCC􏿽x8D􏿽xCD􏿽x91􏿽xCC􏿽x89􏿽xCD􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽xB8􏿽xCD􏿽x9F􏿽xCC􏿽xA3􏿽xCC􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽xBB􏿽xCD􏿽x9A􏿽xCC􏿽xBC􏿽xCC􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽x95􏿽xCC􏿽xA9w􏿽xCC􏿽x8B􏿽xCC􏿽x80􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽xBF􏿽xCC􏿽xA7􏿽xCD􏿽x81􏿽xCC􏿽xBB􏿽xCC􏿽x9E􏿽xCC􏿽xAD􏿽xCD􏿽x88a􏿽xCD􏿽x86􏿽xCD􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽x8C􏿽xCC􏿽xBF􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽x8C􏿽xCC􏿽xA7􏿽xCC􏿽xAD􏿽xCC􏿽xA5􏿽xCD􏿽x95􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCC􏿽x9C􏿽xCC􏿽xA5i􏿽xCD􏿽x83􏿽xCC􏿽x91􏿽xCC􏿽x81􏿽xCC􏿽x81􏿽xCC􏿽x90􏿽xCC􏿽xB9􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xAE􏿽xCD􏿽x9A􏿽xCC􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽xAEt􏿽xCD􏿽xAA􏿽xCD􏿽x92􏿽xCD􏿽xAF􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽xBD􏿽xCC􏿽xAE􏿽xCC􏿽xA9 􏿽xCC􏿽x86􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽x92􏿽xCC􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x8B􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCC􏿽xA5􏿽xCD􏿽x89􏿽xCD􏿽x85􏿽xCD􏿽x93􏿽xCD􏿽x99u􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCC􏿽xBF􏿽xCD􏿽x9E􏿽xCD􏿽x9D􏿽xCC􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽x96n􏿽xCD􏿽xAB􏿽xCD􏿽x90􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x86􏿽xCC􏿽x89􏿽xCC􏿽x92􏿽xCC􏿽xA1􏿽xCD􏿽x8F􏿽xCD􏿽x93􏿽xCC􏿽xA5􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽xBA􏿽xCD􏿽x85􏿽xCD􏿽x8Et􏿽xCD􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽x84􏿽xCD􏿽xA5􏿽xCD􏿽x97􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x93􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCD􏿽x81􏿽xCD􏿽x8F􏿽xCC􏿽xB5􏿽xCD􏿽x85􏿽xCD􏿽x96􏿽xCD􏿽x96􏿽xCC􏿽x98􏿽xCC􏿽xA5􏿽xCC􏿽xBA􏿽xCC􏿽x9D􏿽xCD􏿽x93􏿽xCC􏿽xBCi􏿽xCC􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x84􏿽xCD􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽x8D􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCD􏿽x98􏿽xCC􏿽x9D􏿽xCC􏿽xA4l􏿽xCD􏿽xAD􏿽xCC􏿽x8C􏿽xCD􏿽xA1􏿽xCD􏿽x98􏿽xCD􏿽xA2􏿽xCC􏿽xB1􏿽xCC􏿽x9F􏿽xCC􏿽x9E􏿽xCC􏿽xAD􏿽xCD􏿽x93􏿽xCC􏿽xA9􏿽xCC􏿽xA0 􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCC􏿽x8F􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽x8C􏿽xCC􏿽x9B􏿽xCD􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽xAB􏿽xCD􏿽x8D􏿽xCC􏿽xA4􏿽xCC􏿽xB3􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xAA􏿽xCC􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xBAt􏿽xCD􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽x8F􏿽xCC􏿽x80􏿽xCD􏿽x92􏿽xCD􏿽x97􏿽xCC􏿽xBD􏿽xCD􏿽x9E􏿽xCD􏿽x88􏿽xCC􏿽x96􏿽xCC􏿽xBB􏿽xCC􏿽xBC􏿽xCC􏿽xA3􏿽xCC􏿽xB9i􏿽xCD􏿽xA5􏿽xCC􏿽x9A􏿽xCC􏿽x92􏿽xCD􏿽xA8􏿽xCC􏿽xBD􏿽xCC􏿽x8E􏿽xCD􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽x84􏿽xCC􏿽xB4
18:39 lolisa left
BenGoldberg m􏿽xCD􏿽xAC􏿽xCD􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽x82􏿽xCD􏿽xA6􏿽xCC􏿽x83􏿽xCC􏿽x89􏿽xCD􏿽x86􏿽xCD􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽x82􏿽xCC􏿽xB6􏿽xCD􏿽xA0􏿽xCC􏿽xB8􏿽xCD􏿽x94􏿽xCC􏿽x98􏿽xCD􏿽x88􏿽xCC􏿽xB3􏿽xCD􏿽x89e􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCD􏿽xAD􏿽xCC􏿽x8B􏿽xCC􏿽x8F􏿽xCD􏿽xAB􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCD􏿽xAE􏿽xCD􏿽x8C􏿽xCC􏿽x87􏿽xCC􏿽xAA􏿽xCC􏿽x96􏿽xCC􏿽xBC􏿽xCD􏿽x95􏿽xCC􏿽xBA'; 18:39
nebuchadnezzar erf
BenGoldberg Sorry about that
it was supposed to be on one line.
llfourn cool the matrix 18:40
BenGoldberg Or at least, the output from eeemo.net/ :)
18:41 zwu joined
nine On thing is sure: Perl 6 added a whole new area for bikeshedding :) 18:43
vendethiel :D 18:44
that's why lisp-case is so great :D.
AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: we've already tried some one-liner that printed 300 combiners on one char 18:46
BenGoldberg: one of the bots on this channel ran away immediately 18:47
ah no, it was 400 18:48
here it is irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-11-12#i_11522710
but irclog broke it
BenGoldberg m: my $ก้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็กิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิ = 'the future of black perl'; dd $ก้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็กิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิ; 18:51
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«Str $ก้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็กิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิ = "the future of black perl"␤»
BenGoldberg .u ก้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็กิิิิิิิิิิิิิิิ
yoleaux U+0E01 THAI CHARACTER KO KAI [Lo] (ก)
U+0E34 THAI CHARACTER SARA I [Mn] (◌ิ)
U+0E47 THAI CHARACTER MAITAIKHU [Mn] (◌็)
AlexDaniel this is it, I guess: say ‘a’ ~ join ‘’, ((0..0x1FFFF) ==> grep { .uniname ~~ m/COMBINING/ } ==> map { .chr })
here's the output: gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/0521bc38fe827bd7d37b 18:52
18:54 Khisanth left 18:57 adhoc left
leont got the error «Type check failed in assignment to @!dependencies; expected Build::Simple::Node:D but got Build::Simple::Node:D», I suspect that last :D is a bug 18:57
dalek kudo/language_versions: 9396718 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (6 files):
First attempt at adding a CORE.d setting
 18:58
kudo/language_versions: 7fba273 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (8 files):
Bring back IO::CatPath and IO::CatHandle in 6.d

nine@sphinx:~> perl6 -e 'IO::ArgFiles.new;' nine@sphinx:~> perl6 -e 'use v6.d; IO::ArgFiles.new;' Could not find symbol '&ArgFiles'
18:59 adhoc joined, AlexDaniel left
nine .tell lizmat just pushed: > perl6 -e 'use v6.d; say $*ARGFILES.^name' # IO::Handle, > perl6 -e 'say $*ARGFILES.^name' # IO::ArgFiles 18:59
yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
19:00 pjscott joined, pjscott left
RabidGravy nine++ that is quite cool 19:00
BenGoldberg m: my $base = 3585.chr; my $left = 3655.chr; my $right = 3656.chr; say $base ~ $left x 20; say $base ~ $right x 20; 19:02
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็␤ก่่่่่่่่่่่่่่่่่่่่␤»
lizmat nine: cool!
yoleaux 18:59Z <nine> lizmat: just pushed: > perl6 -e 'use v6.d; say $*ARGFILES.^name' # IO::Handle, > perl6 -e 'say $*ARGFILES.^name' # IO::ArgFiles
llfourn nine: nicely done! 19:03
lizmat still, we're not of the hook yet, I'm afraid
nine Was easy building on lizmat++'s work :)
lizmat: sooo...what's next?
19:03 pjscott joined
El_Che nine: fix the performance numbers of [Tux] :) 19:03
lizmat well, what if: my $a = $*ARGFILES; use 6.d; my $b = $*ARGFILES 19:04
El_Che: that will need jnthn++
19:04 ab6tract left
lizmat nine: as in, if the dynamic variable is already initialized, changing the setting won't automagically run the new initializtion code 19:04
El_Che I hope jnthn++ has been able to get some rest 19:05
19:05 pmurias left
nine lizmat: even if we could pull that off, I'm not sure if it would help all that much, since those objects do carry a bit of state. So changing the one should change the other. And that sounds like hell. 19:06
19:06 pmurias joined
nine lizmat: so I guess it will never be a 100 % perfect. But it doesn't have to be. It just has to be good enough for real life code. 19:07
lizmat nine: agree... but it poses some interesting issues on using multiple settings leaking objects to each other
nine And yes, I fully expect people to show up throwing totally contrieved examples at us that show that Perl 6 is not perfect :)
lizmat but I really think we have a deeper problem wrt to fixing bugs in 6.c
19:07 Khisanth joined 19:08 Actualeyes left
lizmat take the Date.later bug that I fixed (moving from a leap-day by years to non-leap years) 19:08
nine lizmat: yes, hoelzro++ had an interesting idea about coercing versions of core objects. I have just no idea how we could do this automatically, since we'd have to detect moving the object across to code written in another version.
lizmat if you say "use 6.c" you cannot know which behaviour you're going to get
19:09 Sqirrel joined
lizmat of course, the Date.later issue is minor 19:09
it's just an example
we know there are several bugs with meta-operators
nine Meta operators sound like easy to manage, since they don't carry state. It's just changed behavior. Of course the interesting questions will be whether to fix them retroactively. But we'll have to decide that case by case. 19:11
19:12 Calibellus left
lichtkind are there API guidlines for perl 6 19:12
and i currently pondering about Math::Type 19:13
a type collection to be eused my math modules
19:16 ghost_ joined
lizmat m: "foo" ~~ True # there are versions of 6.c that don't warn 19:17
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Smartmatch against True always matches; if you mean to test the topic for truthiness, use :so or *.so or ?* instead␤ at /tmp/mGar7Dbmqu:1␤ ------> 3"foo" ~~ 7⏏5True # there are versions of 6.c that ␤»
lizmat so, fwiw, I'm sold now on the multiple settings idea 19:21
well, I want to see if we can make this work
I'm definitely *not* sold on the idea of keeping the language now at 6.c while fixing bugs / making improvements 19:22
what I would really not like to see, is conditional code on $*PERL.compiler.version 19:24
m: $*PERL.compiler.version.say
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«v2015.12.165.g.620.d.893␤»
nine lizmat: btw. use v6.d; say $*PERL.version # now prints v6.d 19:26
lizmat nine: cool!
but I was talking about $*PERl.compiler.version
star-m: $*PERL.compiler.version.say
camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«v2015.9␤»
nine Sooo...I think before we merge language_versions, we'll have to change that so you have to say use v6.d.PREVIEW; as we don't support a 6.d yet. And update the JVM build
Zeah, compiler.version would be awful 19:27
leont Is there an easy way to automatically generate « method foo(Str $key) { %!foo{$key} } » ?
19:28 zakharyas joined
nine leont: github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/blob...5.pm6#L812 19:28
zwu mst: here is what sortiz said: Found that in rakudo much of import is NYI, see: github.com/perl6/roast/blob/​maste....t#L22-L34 19:32
mst zwu: that's almost certainly a terrible idea, anyway - all of the features that are 'everyday use' -are- there, I think 19:35
llfourn hmmm github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master...uire.t#L31 actually works 19:36
time to unfudge
zwu dynamic loading is a good feature I think, such as plugin system support.
llfourn although maybe require $name is meant to work right now it works as require ::($name); 19:37
zwu it looks like only the sub is support for the require;
llfourn m: my $name = "Test"; { require ::($name) <&ok>; ok 1};
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/7SiG1lfDX5:␤Useless use of $name in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤ok 1 - ␤»
llfourn oh...yeah that bug.. 19:38
but that's just a warning doesn't count :P
require $name is not even meant to work according to S11 19:40
design.perl6.org/S11.html#Runtime_Importation
moritz require ::($name); or require $path; 19:41
zwu please note only the exported sub works, but not class.
llfourn moritz: ah right not looking closely enough thanks 19:42
19:42 hankache joined
llfourn zwu: classes are globalish you don't need to specify them I think. 19:43
m: require ::('Test'); say ::('Test').HOW.^name;
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«Perl6::Metamodel::ModuleHOW␤»
llfourn ^^ same should work for classes
if you do class Something is export though it should work... if it doesn't it's a bug 19:44
(IMO)
moritz llfourn: no 19:45
llfourn moritz: no?
moritz llfourn: require is run time, and lexical scopes are immutable at run time
llfourn: so require can't ever install a new symbol, except if its name is known at compile time
m: require Pod::To::Text; say Pod::To::Text 19:46
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&Text'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/9cCSNcSwxj line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/9cCSNcSwxj line 1␤␤»
hankache hello everyone
moritz that could work
llfourn moritz: yeah that's what the args after require are for. What I meant was require ::('SomeModule') <SomeClass>;
if SomeClass has been is export then it should work
moritz llfourn: right; and it needs to be a constant expression
\o hankache
llfourn moritz: good we are on the same page :)
wait no it doesn't need to be a constant SomeClass = imo :\ 19:47
zwu llfourn, can you please create a test for the module loading with class support?
moritz <SomeClass> is a literal
llfourn zwu: I will put it on todo list as soon as moritz agrees with me :P
moritz m: my $name = 'Pod::To::Text'; require ::($name) <Pod::To::Text>; say Pod::To::Text; 19:48
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/albzJ5ORaN:␤Useless use of $name in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤Trying to import symbols Pod::To::Text from 'Pod::To::Text', but it does not export anything␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/albzJ5ORaN line 1␤␤»
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 81c0cb6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | fetch-recent-blog-posts.pl:
Fix incorrect blog URL for stmuk__'s blog
llfourn moritz: yes because Pod::To::Text doens't have is export
moritz TimToady: ^^ looks like a sink warning bug 19:49
llfourn: aye
llfourn what I am saying is already how it's implemented AFAIK
19:49 pjscott left
llfourn is export will add it to UNIT::EXPORT::DEFAULT 19:49
which is where require is getting it from
19:49 ZoffixWin joined, ZoffixWin left, ZoffixWin joined 19:50 ZoffixWin is now known as Zoffix
Zoffix pets the bot 19:50
yoleaux 09:39Z <stmuk__> Zoffix: the perl6.org home page link to stevemynott.blogspot.com/2016/01/fo...ineup.html wrongly points to stevemynott.blogspot.com/feeds/1832...ts/default .. AFAIK it's not my problem with the feed :) but if it is bounce to back to me
10:03Z <stmuk__> Zoffix: I hacked the feed to fix it .. root issue is < moritz> it's picking up the first <link>, it should pick up <link rel="alternate" type="text/html"
Zoffix stmuk__, I don't see your fix.. Where is it?
19:50 zakharyas left
llfourn and it will be exported with it's shortname like class Super { class Innner is export { } }. Then require Super <Inner>; say Inner.WHAT # Super::Inner 19:51
I'm at least 80% sure that's what happens right now :P
zwu a module file_path.pm6: module A { class TC is default {}; sub foo is default { say "foo" }}; in a script, I use 'require 'file_path.pm6' <&foo>; foo(); my $tc = TC.new; "; but failed as I remembered when I tested yesterday.
sorry, is default is a typo, it is export.
moritz m: require 'Test.pm6' <&plan>; plan 42; 19:52
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«Could not find Test.pm6 in:␤ /home/camelia/.perl6/2015.12-165-g620d893␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤ CompUnit::Reposito…»
llfourn zwu: you would have to require <&foo TC>
moritz m: require ::('Test') <&plan>; plan 42;
camelia rakudo-moar 620d89: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/3wkBlNUVCg:␤Useless use of constant string "Test" in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤1..42␤# Looks like you planned 42 tests, but ran 0␤» 19:53
llfourn zwu: but yeah maybe require path aint working so good
19:53 pjscott joined, orbus left
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: a4ace53 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | fetch-recent-blog-posts.pl:
Close XLST attack vector
 19:55
19:56 ely-se joined, pjscott left 19:57 yqt joined
zwu llfourn: the output is try to import symbol..., but it does not export anything..., I tested use require "full_path.pm6" <&foo, TC>, and require "full_path.pm6" <&A::foo, A::TC> both; 19:57
19:58 Zoffix left, pjscott joined 19:59 pjscott left
llfourn zwu: Thanks. This means the test is still failing. See what happens if you do require ::('ModuleName') <&foo TC>; 19:59
(after putting whatever is in full_path.pm6 into lib/ModuleName.pm6) 20:00
20:03 orbus joined 20:04 darutoko left 20:08 pjscott joined 20:10 frankjh joined, pjscott left
mst .tell FROGGS github.com/andk/pause/issues/198 may be relevant to your interests 20:10
yoleaux mst: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
stmuk__ .tell Zoffix I added at('link[type="text/html"]') (which I now see you improved) 20:14
yoleaux stmuk__: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
zwu llfourn: thanks.
llfourn zwu: worked? 20:15
20:15 domidumont left
zwu no, just report the same failing 20:15
20:15 stmuk__ is now known as stmuk_
llfourn zwu: hmm there is this bug: rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=125951 which I repored a while back 20:17
but it should work unless you are doing something clever
also rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=126658
so yeah there are some problems with require even when not doing a filename 20:18
but it works for me usually
llfourn goes and tries
moritz the German Perl Workshop 2016 is stil looking for talks on Perl 6 (and Perl 5, for that matter); anybody interested? 20:19
lizmat moritz: did jnthn submit already ? 20:21
llfourn zwu: you are correct. This is a bug in itself! 20:22
20:22 _nadim joined
llfourn wow it doens't even work with &foo by itself for me 20:24
zwu: ya it's super broken
dalek kudo/nom: 9f64cec | lizmat++ | src/core/Complex.pm:
Revert "decent infix:<**> for Complex"

This reverts commit 4680dc81f2720cc50e2d144ebb12116f90a3b231.
It severely borked t/spec/S32-num/power.t :-(		 20:25
llfourn zwu: It looks like require ::('Test') <&ok> works but nothing from your non core dist modules 20:26
yikes!
roast only tests require Test ;_;
orbus I guess I really should get an rt account 20:28
orbus doesn't like registering for more things - too many accounts already 20:30
20:33 CIAvash left
llfourn orbus: I've been filing bugs for months and never bothered to get an account :) 20:33
orbus I saw something on the site about filing by e-mail
but I couldn't figure out where to send to
maybe I'm blind
llfourn orbus: [email@hidden.address]
RabidGravy yeah
orbus ah, okay
well I'll give that a shot 20:34
I think I found a concurrency bug
probably lots of those :p
llfourn please do :D
orbus I can reproduce it semi-regularly - seems there's a race condition around state variables and concurrent processing - namely if the timing's just right and two threads try to enter the sub at the same time, the state variable gets messed up 20:35
seems to be on state variable initialization
llfourn zwu: rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=127233 Sorry about sending you on wild goose chase there :P 20:36
20:36 spider-mario left
llfourn orbus: I am not surprised :) 20:37
orbus actually, come to think of it, maybe not on initialization
hmm
well I'm not really either
concurrency is hard to get right and it's amazing it works as well as it does so far
lots of wrinkles left to iron out
BenGoldberg m: sub foo { state $bar = 0; ++$bar }; say [+] await (start { foo } xx 2) for 1..10;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«3␤7␤11␤15␤19␤23␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 14816 bytes␤»
BenGoldberg m: sub foo { state $bar = 0; ++$bar }; say [+] await (start { foo } xx 2) for 1..10; 20:38
orbus :)
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«3␤7␤11␤15␤19␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 14816 bytes␤»
orbus I ran into it on a state Lock
sometimes it works
sometimes on of the threads gripes that the state variable isn't a Lock 20:39
like it hasn't been initialized
BenGoldberg m: for (1..10) { my sub foo { state $bar = 0; ++$bar }; say [+] await (start { foo } xx 2) };
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 14816 bytes␤»
orbus is camelia running 2015.12? 20:40
BenGoldberg m: use v10000;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/cWj1_bNtfs␤No compiler available for Perl v10000␤at /tmp/cWj1_bNtfs:1␤------> 3use v100007⏏5;␤»
BenGoldberg m: use $*VERSION; 20:41
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/wuu2OHNEua␤Undeclared routine:␤ use used at line 1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: use $?VERSION;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/nQYkAFlST8␤Variable '$?VERSION' is not declared. Did you mean 'Version'?␤at /tmp/nQYkAFlST8:1␤------> 3use 7⏏5$?VERSION;␤»
BenGoldberg m: use $?Version;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/MtSpRzxRcf␤Variable '$?Version' is not declared. Did you mean 'Version'?␤at /tmp/MtSpRzxRcf:1␤------> 3use 7⏏5$?Version;␤»
BenGoldberg I kmnow there's a variable with the version....
BenGoldberg looks around for his cheat sheet
orbus m: put $*PERLVERSION 20:42
RabidGravy m: say $*PERL.version
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable $*PERLVERSION not found␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/n_YBrkQHdV line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/n_YBrkQHdV line 1␤␤»
rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«v6.c␤»
orbus oh
BenGoldberg m: $*PERL
camelia ( no output )
orbus that's the perl version, not the rakudo version
BenGoldberg m: $*PERL.perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«Perl.new(compiler => Compiler.new(id => "61EFC50B7FEF96D41C933C212DA935F964BBF936.1452457829.90565", release => "", codename => "", name => "rakudo", auth => "The Perl Foundation", version => Version.new('2015.12.166.g.9.f.64.cec'), signature => Blob, desc…»
orbus there we go
m: for ^10 { my &x=sub ($x is rw) { state $l=Lock.new; $l.protect({ $x++ }); }; my $z=5; await start {&x($z)} xx 2; put $z } 20:43
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«7␤7␤7␤7␤7␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 15032 bytes␤»
orbus oh that's interesting
that runs on my box
at least sometimes
sometimes it throws No such method 'protect' for invocant of type 'Any'
RabidGravy I think there's a ulimit or something on it
orbus could be 20:44
to keep people from doing nutty things to camelia
BenGoldberg But wouldn't await cause the thread to be cleaned up?
20:45 yurivish_ joined
orbus there's probably a really small memory allocation limit on the account camelia runs under 20:45
20:45 hankache left
orbus to keep somebody malicious from gobbling up all the memory on the host box 20:45
camelia's for one-liners
zwu llfourn: I appreciated your filing a bug. 20:46
lizmat orbus: somehow it feels *VERY* wrong that you store a Lock in a state variable 20:49
20:50 ceronman joined, wamba left 20:51 zwu left
lizmat orbus: but it's more a gut feeling 20:51
ah, I see it now
yes, bad idea
BenGoldberg m: for ^10 { my &x=sub ($x is rw) { constant $l = Lock.new; $l.protect({ $x++ }); }; my $z=5; await start {&x($z)} xx 2; put $z } 20:52
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«7␤7␤7␤7␤7␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 15208 bytes7␤␤»
lizmat well, the lock appears to be shared between multiple threads
I'm not sure the lock itself is created to handle that evantuality 20:54
*eventuality
BenGoldberg m: sub foo { state $bar = do { say 'when is this done' }; 42 }; say 'before'; foo; say 'after';
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«before␤when is this done␤after␤»
BenGoldberg m: for (1..2) { sub foo { state $bar = do { say 'when is this done' }; 42 }; say 'before'; foo; say 'after' }
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«before␤when is this done␤after␤before␤when is this done␤after␤»
BenGoldberg m: for (1..2) { sub foo { state $bar = do { say 'when is this done' }; 42 }; say 'before'; foo; foo; say 'after' }
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«before␤when is this done␤after␤before␤when is this done␤after␤»
20:55 psy__ left
ceronman Hi everyone, I just installed Perl 6 on OS X (via brew install rakudo-star). I'm just trying the language. 20:55
BenGoldberg m: for (1..2) { sub foo { state $bar = do { say 'when is this done' }; 42 }; say 'before'; foo; foo; say 'after' }; foo
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/UDU9xtrymd␤Undeclared routine:␤ foo used at line 1␤␤»
ceronman while playing with it, I ran into an error when running this: perl6 -e 'sub one { 1 }; one;'
BenGoldberg m: for (1..2) { our sub foo { state $bar = do { say 'when is this done' }; 42 }; say 'before'; foo; foo; say 'after' }; foo 20:56
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/oBqEvQPfIG␤Undeclared routine:␤ foo used at line 1␤␤»
ceronman why is the error happening? it seems the name 'one' is colliding with something as it doesn't happen with other function names
20:56 spider-mario joined
BenGoldberg m: say one; 20:56
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/U9LOJjZO5d␤Function "one" may not be called without arguments (please use () or whitespace to denote arguments, or &one to refer to the function as a noun)␤at /tmp/U9LOJjZO5d:1␤------> 3say one7⏏5;␤»
BenGoldberg m: sub one { 42 }; one;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/pTc51hLMH3␤Function "one" may not be called without arguments (please use () or whitespace to denote arguments, or &one to refer to the function as a noun)␤at /tmp/pTc51hLMH3:1␤------> 3sub one { 42 }; o…»
BenGoldberg m: sub one { 42 }; one();
camelia ( no output )
BenGoldberg m: sub one { 42 }; say one.WHAT; 20:57
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/MHO9dMTX6S␤Function "one" may not be called without arguments (please use () or whitespace to denote arguments, or &one to refer to the function as a noun)␤at /tmp/MHO9dMTX6S:1␤------> 3sub one { 42 }; s…»
BenGoldberg m: sub one { 42 }; say &one.WHAT;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«(Sub)␤»
BenGoldberg m: sub one { 42 }; say &one.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«sub one () { #`(Sub|81598528) ... }␤»
BenGoldberg m: say &one.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«sub one (+ is raw) { #`(Sub+{<anon|49450304>}|67143056) ... }␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $foo; one($foo);
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/7WEXfjzD9B:␤Useless use of "one($foo)" in expression "one($foo)" in sink context (line 1)␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $foo; say one($foo);
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«one((Any))␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $foo; say one($foo); say $foo
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«one((Any))␤(Any)␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $foo = ; say one($foo); say $foo
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/A0DGNFryKu␤Malformed initializer␤at /tmp/A0DGNFryKu:1␤------> 3my $foo =7⏏5 ; say one($foo); say $foo␤ expecting any of:␤ prefix␤ term␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $foo = 1; say one($foo); say $foo; # stupid fingers
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«one(1)␤1␤»
20:58 wollmers joined
BenGoldberg m: my $foo = 2; say one($foo); say $foo; 20:58
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«one(2)␤2␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $foo = 2; say one($foo++); say $foo;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«one(2)␤3␤»
wollmers hello rekudistas
BenGoldberg m: my $foo = 2; say one(1); say $foo;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«one(1)␤2␤»
BenGoldberg m: say one('what does this button do');
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«one(what does this button do)␤»
20:59 ely-se left
lizmat m: dd one(True,False,False), one(True,True,False) # ceronman 20:59
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Bool'␤ in any at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 3124␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/hIMatcxyJm line 1␤␤»
lizmat hmmm...
m: say one(True,False,False), one(True,True,False)
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«one(True, False, False)one(True, True, False)␤»
wollmers p6: my $h = {a => [[1,2]]}; for (@($h{'a'})) -> $x { say '$x: ',$x.perl; }; 21:00
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«$x: 1␤$x: 2␤»
lizmat m: say so one(True,False,False), so one(True,True,False)
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«TrueFalse␤»
BenGoldberg m: say one(1).WHAT;
camelia rakudo-moar 9f64ce: OUTPUT«(Junction)␤»
lizmat one() creates a junction that yields True if only one of the values is True
leont How can I 'inherit' a method from a role, and also override it? 21:01
ceronman I understand that, but then why if I define my own 'one' function, I get that error?
leont Call it explicitly?
BenGoldberg Add parens.
21:01 colomon left
wollmers How can I get the arrayref [1,2] out of [[1,2]] into a for loop? 21:02
ceronman ok, if I type the parens, I don't get the error, but why do I get it without the parens?
21:04 yurivish_ left
dalek kudo/nom: 9927409 | lizmat++ | src/core/Rakudo/Internals.pm:
Add IS-WIN as cheap way to know if we're on Win

Having to create a Distro for this, is really stupid.		 21:04
kudo/nom: 5cb4372 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (3 files):
Use Rakudo::Internals.IS-WIN where appropriate
lizmat ceronman: *that* could actually be a bug
OTOH, one is just a sub in the setting... hmmm... 21:05
ceronman lizmat: it looks like a bug. It doesn't happen with other names, even if they collide with thigs: perl6 -e 'sub elems { 1 }; say elems;' 21:06
wollmers What's wrong with this: Malformed loop spec: ------> for ( @($ranks{$rank}) ) -> ⏏$hunk { 21:10
moritz wollmers: do you want to iterate over 1 and 2? or get [1, 2] in a single iteration?
m: my $ranks; my $rank; for ( @($ranks{$rank}) ) -> $hunk { } 21:11
camelia ( no output )
moritz wollmers: maybe a syntax error before that?
dalek osystem/add-perl6-slang-roman: d74c047 | (Jeffrey Goff)++ | META.list:
Add perl6-slang-roman
 21:12
wollmers moritz: the second case. I want array-refs as $x.
21:12 colomon joined
lizmat ceronman: indeed, could you please report this [email@hidden.address] and quote the conversation here ? 21:12
ceronman lizmat: I will thanks for the help 21:13
moritz m: for [[1, 2],] -> $x { say $x.perl }
camelia rakudo-moar 5cb437: OUTPUT«$[1, 2]␤»
dalek osystem: d74c047 | (Jeffrey Goff)++ | META.list:
Add perl6-slang-roman
osystem: 5278038 | drforr++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #118 from perl6/add-perl6-slang-roman

Add perl6-slang-roman
moritz wollmers: ^^
wollmers moritz: The AoA is constructed via push. Does push set the "magic comma"? 21:14
moritz wollmers: yes; it never flattens 21:15
m: my @a; @a.push: [1, 2]; for @a -> $x { say $x.perl }
camelia rakudo-moar 5cb437: OUTPUT«$[1, 2]␤»
moritz wollmers: seems to do what you want: a single iteration with an array in $x
21:16 Skarsnik left, [particle] joined
wollmers moritz: thx. So I should isolate my syntax bug. Maybe a porting relict from P5. 21:17
moritz wollmers: also, the parens around the list expression isn't necessary (for ... -> $x instead of for ( ... ) -> $x ) 21:18
21:19 [particle]1 left
wollmers moritz: I know, that's just P5-ish. 21:19
21:20 pi4 left, pi4 joined
nine orbus: using a state variable like that looks like a classic test and set race condition. Does Perl 6 actually guarantee that state variable initialization is thread safe? 21:24
lizmat I'm pretty sure it doesn't
same for once blocks
nine orbus: oh an while I'm at it: your cas implementation seems to be using the same lock for all cas operations while it should be one lock per compared variable. 21:25
orbus that is a good point
nine One of these days I'm gonna have to start looking at parallelism in Perl 6 :) 21:26
orbus I changed it around some more already
but that is a good point
21:26 geraud joined
orbus I've been looking for a writeup on what perl6 actually guarantees is thread safe 21:26
I haven't found one
scalar assignment seems to be atomic (seems to be) 21:27
anything past that, maybe only jnthn knows
lizmat orbus: that's about the only thing that is guaranteed
nine Well the emphasis was really on higher level abstractions, so you shouldn't have to care about those as much.
orbus well, maybe that's true but I think it still ought to be in writing somewhere - it's really easy to trip over otherwise 21:28
lizmat: that's about what I've been figuring
21:29 colomon left 21:30 atweiden joined
orbus as far as whether perl6 guarantees state variable initialization to be safe - it may well not, but it seems like it probably should or it breaks a lot of assumptions I know I would probably make about when it's safe to use start 21:30
lizmat orbus: yes, that's a good point
nine Guaranteeing safety usually makes the common case of non-threaded access slower, too.
That's the opposite of what we'd like to do :) 21:31
orbus always a balance to strike
you could just put a big red NOT THREAD SAFE warning on it
but I feel like if it's not safe you're going to wind up with a lot of non thread-safe modules 21:32
dalek kudo/nom: 5240dec | lizmat++ | src/core/ (5 files):
Move MAKE-EXT to Rakudo::Internals

Do some streamlining, and make sure all calls to MAKE-EXT are adapted
21:32 colomon joined
lizmat nine: using a state variable in a module in the ecosystem, making that unsafe for use in async, that would be bad :-( 21:32
cxreg whoever convinced JT to reconsider perl 6 and write about it, nice job 21:33
orbus anyway, I wrote a little test program that demonstrates the issue (usually) 21:36
DrForr Indeed.
orbus so when I get a chance I'll throw it in an email and send to rakudobug
as far as the cas, I'm still just messing around with it - it's been a good opportunity to try to wrap my head around binding and containers 21:37
but that's a good point about the locking - what I've done so far is probably suboptimal
21:37 wamba joined, zwu joined
orbus although I'm not sure how I'd do a separate lock per compared variable - keep a big hash? could get large quickly 21:40
have to think about it I guess
nine lizmat: I'd bet that pretty much all ecosystem code is thread unsafe. A user has to care for that by herself by stuffing the code into supplies and promises
orbus yeah, but with the state thing 21:41
nine orbus: or...you could just dive in an implement it properly in the vm ;)
orbus if there's a function in a module that uses a state variable 21:42
ha - I think that's probably over my head
the last C I did was a very long time ago
but as I was saying, if you have a module function that uses a state variable
nine And if there's a module that uses objects with state and methods or lexical variables in the module's main line, you have the same issues. State variables are just one way to have kinda global state.
orbus those would get initialized when you call use right? 21:43
I don't think it's the same
21:44 Psyche^_ joined
nine my $foo; sub do_something($bar) { $foo //= $bar; ... } 21:44
same race condition right there without state
Or if it's no lexical but an object's property and you pass that objects to multiple thread, same thing can happen. 21:45
orbus what's //= ?
nine defined or assign
orbus that's what I thought 21:46
not in the operators document :p
lizmat hmmm... perhaps state variables are thread safe after all: 21:47
m: my int $a = 0; sub a() { once $a = $a + 1 }; await do for ^100 { Promise.start(&a) }; say $a
camelia rakudo-moar 5cb437: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 15504 bytes␤»
lizmat ooh, wow
orbus yeah
we ran into that earlier
our guess is camelia has a small memory cap
lizmat $ 6 'my int $a = 0; sub a() { once $a = $a + 1 }; await do for ^10000 { Promise.start(&a) }; say $a'
1
21:48 Psyche^ left
orbus yeah I have an example like that 21:48
sometimes it works
sometimes it doesn't
lizmat I haven't been able to get this one to fail yet
orbus although
come to think of it
I was assigning an object
so maybe it's falling down in the object construction
that could well be 21:49
lizmat $ 6 'my Int $a; sub a() { once $a = $a + 1 }; await do for ^10000 { Promise.start(&a) }; say $a'
Invocant requires an instance of type Int, but a type object was passed. Did you forget a .new?
21:49 kaare_ left
orbus there you go 21:50
lizmat now, in this case, we don't have an Int to start with
orbus that's the kind of thing I was getting
in my case it was a Lock
I was trying to assign a Lock to a state variable
lizmat if you initialize the Int $a = 0, then there is no problem, because there is container to begin with
nine Good night all!
lizmat good night, nine! 21:51
orbus and sometimes it would act like the Lock variable hadn't been initialized when it got to the point of trying to call protect
21:51 uvtc joined
orbus later nine 21:51
I dunno - it just feels like there's a lot of landmines in concurrency
which makes sense - it's a hard problem 21:52
but it would be nice to start making a map of where the landmines are
lizmat yes, but we try to shield user from those landmines...
orbus that's kind of my hope
protect people from what it's possible to protect from 21:53
and put big warning signs around the stuff you can't
cxreg i believe in jnthn
orbus well he probably has some ideas around all this
cxreg he absolutely does
just needs more work
orbus yup
that's my assumption
I'm just trying to point things out as I trip over them to raise awareness :) 21:54
cxreg orbus++
uvtc m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my @b = 2, 1, 3; say @a == @b; # How do I compare two arrays?
camelia rakudo-moar 5240de: OUTPUT«True␤»
uvtc ^^ I'd expect that to return False.
RabidGravy m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my @b = 2, 1, 3; say @a ~~ @b; 21:55
camelia rakudo-moar 5240de: OUTPUT«False␤»
uvtc What is `@a == @b` doing?
RabidGravy m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my @b = 1, 2, 3; say @a ~~ @b;
camelia rakudo-moar 5240de: OUTPUT«True␤»
cxreg is there a non-smartmatch way of doing that?
RabidGravy comparing the lengths I think
uvtc Ah. Numerical.
Right.
El_Che uvtc: iirc, object identitiy
uvtc Oh.
wollmers Seems I need to write my own Test::is-deeply() 21:56
21:56 silug left
orbus m: my @a=1,2,3; my @b=2,1,3,4; put @a==@b 21:56
camelia rakudo-moar 5240de: OUTPUT«False␤»
uvtc I'd forgotten: `==` for numerical, `eq` for strings, `~~` for ... smart matching.
El_Che uvtc: have a look at the Array class, the doc about any, all, unique etc. That's also very nice
uvtc Ok. Thanks, El_Che. 21:57
wollmers in the test file: is-deeply([allLCS([<A B C>], [<D E F>])], [[[],],],);
The result: # expected: $[] # got: $[[[],],] 21:58
El_Che m: my @a=1,2,3; my @b=1,3,2; say @a.sort ~~ @b.sort
camelia rakudo-moar 5240de: OUTPUT«True␤»
El_Che uvtc: in the case you only care about the contents
uvtc Is there a general rule Perl 6 follows regarding whether or not a method mutates its object (the "invocant"?) vs if it instead returns a new object? 22:00
lizmat the general rule is: return new object, but there are exceptions
like push/unshift/append/prepend :-) 22:01
uvtc Nice. Thanks, lizmat and El_Che . Right, I see: with push/pop/shift/unshift/append/prepend you expect modification.
22:01 wamba left
orbus I'm assuming that doesn't apply to ecosystem classes? 22:01
just that the core tries to behave that way? 22:02
El_Che uvtc: kind of related, similar ro-behavious for method signature parameters. You need to add "is rw" or "is copy" if you want a different behaviouer
22:02 average joined
average blogs.perl.org/users/jt_smith/2016/...async.html 22:03
uvtc El_Che, Ok. I see. Default is `ro` --- you need to ask for `rw`.
average I very much liked that blogpost ^^
this was something I asked a week ago in this channel
El_Che uvtc: so is the default for Str.subst a new Str. For rw there is substr-mutate. 22:04
orbus the concurrency stuff is very much what got me interested 22:05
El_Che uvtc: so like Liz says: new obj except when not for obvious or explicit reasons
uvtc Ah, didn't know there was a `substr-mutate`. Ok. Thanks, El_Che .
orbus most other scripting type languages leave much to be desired in terms of concurrency support
lizmat orbus: fwiw, I'm not convinced anymore that state variables are inherently thread-unsafe
orbus lizmat: I think I need to do some more experiments 22:06
El_Che orbus: most? all
orbus: :)
orbus because I had object construction in the mix
well
lizmat orbus: you see, a once block uses a hidden state variable
22:06 silug joined
lizmat and I have not been able to make that break 22:06
orbus of the available ones, groovy seems to come the closest from what I've seen - but that's because it's java in disguise
lizmat: hmm - okay, I'll play with it some more 22:07
thanks
it might just be that it's not safe to try to assign it to like SomeObject.new
uvtc El_Che, Oops, typo. I see that besides `substr` there's also a `subst` and `subst-mutate` (but no "`substr-mutate`").
El_Che uvtc: typo indeed :) 22:08
uvtc: I am a s/// guy :)
uvtc Oh. Does `subst` mean "substitute"? (Where's `substr` means "substring".) 22:10
skids yep 22:11
uvtc Ah. Thanks skids .
skids substr-rw would be the mutable 22:12
22:13 frankjh left
uvtc Ah, nice. 22:13
22:14 uvtc left
dalek osystem: c081228 | skids++ | META.list:
switch X::Protocol from META.info to META6.json
 22:16
22:16 _Vi left 22:18 ceronman left
masak 'night, #perl6 22:18
22:18 amoe left
wollmers In which repository lives the source of the module Test? 22:20
22:20 TEttinger joined
llfourn wollmers: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/nom/lib 22:21
wollmers llfourn: thx. Found no link on rakudo.org. 22:22
llfourn when it doubt go to github :) 22:23
22:34 zwu left 22:36 pmurias left 22:37 rindolf left
dalek osystem: cb23569 | LLFourn++ | META.list:
Add AttrX::InitArg to ecosystem

  github.com/LLFourn/p6-AttrX-InitArg		 22:37
llfourn mst: I did it!
awwaiid: ^ 22:38
break &
22:40 vendethiel left
skids How does one force panda to refresh a module's META? 22:41
leont Is it me, or does IO::Path not support anything like catfile/catdir? 22:48
dalek kudo/nom: 34d2b6f | lizmat++ | src/core/ (3 files):
Move MAKE-CLEAN-PARTS to Rakudo::Internals

and streamline it		 22:49
lizmat leont: $*SPEC supports that
it's a mess
yes
I know
lizmat goes to bed
leont Yeah it is
lizmat good night, #perl6! 22:50
leont has an open PR about $*SPEC
Night!
lizmat I still think $*SPEC needs to die
sleep&
skids m: my $a = IO::Path.new("/tmp"); $a.child("foo").say;
camelia rakudo-moar 5240de: OUTPUT«IO::Path is disallowed in restricted setting␤ in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1␤ in method new at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 32␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/XkIxx7gbwK line 1␤␤»
leont I wouldn't mind $*SPEC dying, but we'd need something in its place instead 22:51
utime is documented as «Gone, see Path.times.», but there is no such method in IO::Path 22:53
22:54 niceperl joined
RabidGravy skids, "panda update" 22:56
skids That does not seem to, it only updates modules.list.
leont Seems my options are shelling out and using NativeCall… 22:57
22:58 Herby_ joined
Herby_ Good afternoon, everyone! 22:58
RabidGravy I just discovered that one can use an $!attribute in a where on a method parameter, against my expectations
skids Well, to be precise, "panda update" will pull new copies of individual module META files if it sees a change in the META.list, but not if just the module's META file changes. 22:59
23:00 niceperl left
RabidGravy ah right, 23:01
23:03 vendethiel joined 23:11 _nadim left
Herby_ what is the: -> operator used for? I'm looking at an advent tutorial from last year 23:18
$measurements.tap(-> $value { say "Measured: $value"; });
that is in the tutorial 23:19
not sure what the ' -> ' does
awwaiid llfourn: nice! Also nice because I was telling people about traits the other day and this gives a wonderful example of user-defined attribute traits
Herby_ perl6advent.wordpress.com/2013/12/...ogramming/
23:20 wollmers left 23:21 kid51 joined 23:22 RabidGravy left
geekosaur Herby_, design.perl6.org/S06.html#%22Pointy_blocks%22 23:23
Herby_ Thanks, geekosaur. I'll give that a read
23:24 vendethiel left, firstdayonthejob left
Herby_ m: my $sq = -> $val { $val ** 2 }; say $sq(10); 23:25
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«100␤»
leont zostay: IO::Glob is in the index as IO-Glob, that may be a bit confusing 23:33
Herby_ m: say 1..10;
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«1..10␤»
Herby_ m: say (1..3) 23:34
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«1..3␤»
Herby_ m: say (^5)
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«^5␤»
leont zostay: it's also failing its tests, apparently because it's assuming a particular order returned from IO::Path.dir 23:35
awwaiid m: say (^5).WHAT; say (1..3).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«(Range)␤(Range)␤»
awwaiid m: say (^5).WHAT; say (1..3).WHAT; say (0..3).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«(Range)␤(Range)␤(Range)␤»
awwaiid m: say (0..3)
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«0..3␤»
awwaiid *shrug*
Herby_ m: my $a = 1..5; say $a; 23:36
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«1..5␤»
Herby_ m: my @a = 1..5; say @a;
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4 5]␤»
Herby_ m: my @a = ^5; say @a;
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«[0 1 2 3 4]␤»
awwaiid it must have some metadata to know that ^5 is ^5 rather than 0..4
Herby_ hmm 23:37
23:47 Gruber is now known as Grrrr
Quom__ It's always ^5, but when flattened or accessed with [] brackets, it'll expand into a list 23:59
m: say ^5
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«^5␤»
Quom__ m: say flat ^5
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«(0 1 2 3 4)␤»
Quom__ m: say List(^5)
camelia rakudo-moar 34d2b6: OUTPUT«(^5)␤»

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