»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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Xliff \0 #perl6 00:34
Oh my word, the Luke Cage show is awesome. Only watched ep 1
But it was guuud
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seatek eeuw. perl6 --doc output is ... flat 02:06
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dalek c: 09662f5 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/grammars.pod6:
add missing results for examples
 02:14
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FROGGS o/ 07:53
psch o/ 07:54
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RabidGravy boom! 10:04
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grondilu wonders why `prove` doesn't accept `plan *` 10:59
or rather prove -e perl6
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psch grondilu: isn't it Test.pm should would have to support it? also, what is it supposed to mean? afaik TAP supports either a fixed number of tests or done_testing 11:07
s/should/that/
where "done_testing" means a message over the protocol that all tests have been executed
grondilu psch: yes, it's about Test.pm, my bad. 11:08
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grondilu and what I meant is that if I do : $ PERL6LIB=lib prove -e perl6 t/, it will fail with 'no plan' if one of the test files has 'plan *' 11:10
psch m: use Test; say plan *
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«1475320238.58462␤»
psch m: use Test; say (plan *).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
psch i actually don't know what &plan returns
grondilu forcing me to manually count the tests I do in the file and put the actual count in the plan. 11:11
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psch m: use Test; ok 1; ok 1; ok 1; done-testing 11:11
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤ok 2 - ␤ok 3 - ␤1..3␤»
psch grondilu: that's what done-testing is for
grondilu oh, ok. I did not know that done-testing was a thing. 11:12
psch++ thanks 11:13
grondilu will have to read S24 again one day 11:14
miniPerl, a Turing-complete subset of Perl compiling to javascript: 11:15
github.com/grondilu/miniPerl
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psch grondilu: fwiw, 'plan *' is equivalent to no &plan call and you can use it the same, i.e. with &done-testing 11:17
which might be a good idea for explicitness
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pmurias grondilu: you want to grow miniPerl into something bigger or will it stay in it's current lambda calculus form? 11:57
grondilu I want to try anyway 11:58
pmurias grondilu: have you looked at the nanopass compilers? 11:59
grondilu no
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pmurias it's in scheme but they seem to be using the have a bazillion intermediate languages/passes approach you where proposing 12:03
grondilu yeah, I've just read the description and indeed that looks like what I was talking about. 12:04
I know close to nothing about Scheme, though.
pmurias has only used it for writing gimp extensions 12:05
(a long time ago)
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grondilu I can extend grammars in Perl 6, can't I? So I guess I can stick to perl. 12:05
pmurias having the intermediate expressions in tree/s-expr for seems much more saner then having them textual 12:06
grondilu did not think about using s-expr 12:07
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pmurias grondilu: is your goal more to explore the multi pass idea or get a perlish language that compiles to javascript? 12:12
grondilu honestly I don't quite understand how they work. For instance what is the s-expr for sub {}() ?
pmurias: both
or rather, a perlish language that compiles to lambda-calculus.
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tbrowder good morning (US CDT), #perl6, anyone awake? 12:18
timotimo greetings tbrowder
pmurias tbrowder: hi 12:19
lizmat is awake fsvo
pmurias grondilu: s-exprs are a notation for writing lists
tbrowder hi! I am ready to release a new P6 module and would appreciate anyone who can take the time to check it: see github.com/tbrowder/Net-IP-Lite-Perl6
hi all! 12:20
i'll let it percolate a day or two... 12:21
grondilu I thought they could be used to writing programs as well. I guess they can with if you add a "call" function or something. 12:22
but that looks like a hassle.
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grondilu thought about generating actual lambda-calculus expression but couldn't quite cope with parenthesis rules. 12:24
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pmurias grondilu: when you are writing lisp you are basically writing programs as lists 12:29
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grondilu correct me if I'm wrong. The s-exp for sub {} is (() ()) and the one for sub {}() is (call (() ())) 12:39
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arnsholt Depends on the exact Lisp you're programming in 12:52
In CL declaration is (defun subroutine (args) ...) and call is (subroutine ...)
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arnsholt If you have a varaible containing a function, you need to do (funcall var ...) because CL is a Lisp-2 12:53
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noninc hello! I am pondering on the possibility to make a portable version of perl6+moarvm on windows. It seems the rakudo binaries have a hardcoded prefix. 13:03
Is there a sensible / simple way of making rakudo use relative paths? 13:04
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 2bb7126 | (Mathieu Gagnon)++ | categories/interpreters/lisp.pl:
Fix lisp interpreter test

Make `perl6 lisp.pl --test` pass again.
  « is for word quoting with interpolation so changing for q.		 13:09
[ptc] hey cool! (Mathieu Gagnon)++ 13:10
grondilu arnsholt: I only have anonymous subroutines so far. How do you call an anonymous function in lisp? 13:11
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arnsholt grondilu: Depends on the Lisp =) 13:11
But if it's a Lisp-1 (single namespace) It's just ((lambda (@sig) $function-body) @args)
Or you can have a call special form 13:12
grondilu meh, I think I'll stick to ES6
where sub {}() is (_ => null)()
seems simple enough 13:13
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grondilu checked and realizes (() => null) is better for sub {} 13:15
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dalek c: 5252066 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/ (2 files):
Changed references to deprecated Order::Increase and Order::Decrease to Order::Less and Order::More
 13:19
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pmurias grondilu: how are you going to transform the javascript you produce? 13:23
gfldex for a concurrent File::Find, is $follow-symlink = True a sane default? 13:26
grondilu pmurias: I won't. 13:27
why would I?
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pmurias grondilu: you seem to want to have a bunch of passes that feed into each other 13:28
grondilu yes 13:29
pmurias so what will the first pass return?
grondilu but only the last stage will produce javascript. 13:30
the pass in language miniPerl::<n> returns code in language miniPerl::<n-1>
pmurias in string form? 13:31
grondilu yes
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dylanwh gfldex: re File::Find, symlinks can form cycles. Do you detect those cycles? 13:33
grondilu for instance miniPerl::II will accept sequences of operations. So 'f(); g();' will become 'sub { g() }(f());' 13:35
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gfldex dylanwh: i would like to but we don't got readlink nor stat (readlink is hard on win32 and stat is pointless) 13:37
dylanwh I would ignore symlinks by default then. 13:38
symlink cycles are not uncommon in my experience.
gfldex they are the default on windows is you start at C:\ 13:39
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noninc how would I go about building moarvm, nqp and rakudo all with relative prefixes on windows, so i can move it later? is this possible? 13:43
pmurias grondilu: seems doable but really inconvinient and slow as you will have to reparse everything as opposed to just manipulating s-exprs like the use in scheme (or just ASTs) 13:46
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grondilu pmurias: I confess I don't understand how they do it, then. 13:49
pmurias grondilu: have you learned lisp? 13:52
grondilu pmurias: not seriously, and long ago. 13:53
pmurias grondilu: in lisp the program is written as nested lists (with atoms in them) 13:55
grondilu not related: how do I refer to a grammar inside itself? Like with ::CLASS but for grammars?
pmurias with a very thin layer of syntax on top of it
isn't a grammar also a class?
grondilu m: grammar { say ::CLASS }
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤No such symbol 'CLASS'␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3grammar { say ::CLASS7⏏5 }␤»
grondilu it's supposed to.
m: class { say ::CLASS } 13:56
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤No such symbol 'CLASS'␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3class { say ::CLASS7⏏5 }␤»
grondilu oh
m: class { say ::?CLASS }
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«(<anon|60424016>)␤»
grondilu wrong syntax, sorry
dalek c: 4a99a1a | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6:
Attempt to fix #923 by exchanging a few =head3 directives with B<>
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grondilu pmurias: I get that in lisp the program is written in nested lists, but I don't know how that can help doing what I'm trying to do. 13:58
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grondilu I suppose I should look into how exactly they proceed with nanopass. 13:59
pmurias grondilu: you don't have to reparse it in every stage you just transform lists
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grondilu ok 14:01
but I can't cope with the kind of AST perl6 generates.
pmurias QAST is not very fun true 14:04
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dalek rl6-most-wanted: dae00bf | (Tom Browder)++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
add new module to the list (also WIP)
 14:14
pmurias rakudo.js compiles 56% of the setting before dying 14:15
dalek rl6-most-wanted: bbbbbdd | (Tom Browder)++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
correct typo
 14:16
rl6-most-wanted: 22dc004 | (Tom Browder)++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
correct entry
 14:17
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moritz nice commit hash, starting with bbbbbdd 14:59
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gfldex is Channel.list eager (given no Promise is involved)? 15:03
noninc okay, my problem seems to be in the nqp::backendconfig<prefix>. Can I change that at runtime between invoking moarvm and bootstrapping perl (when trying to run a perl script)? 15:04
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dalek rl6-most-wanted: 895e6fb | (Tom Browder)++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
add note about impending review and release
 15:04
moritz gfldex: yes, it blocks until you close the channel
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Woodi_ hi #perl6 :) 15:21
is AST eqivalent of s-expressions ?
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mst sorrrt of? 15:22
I mean, both 'yes' and 'absolutely not' depending on how you look at it 15:23
TimToady s-expressions are syntax, and syntax is not...abstract...
unless, of course, it's abstract syntax...
but usually, when people say "s-exprs" they mean Lost In Silly Parens 15:24
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TimToady so I think most people would say s-exprs are one way of representing ASTs 15:26
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Woodi_ os they are isomorphic or not ? :) 15:29
so*
mst ah, point. I think I tend to think of S-exprs as the list-of-lists structure, and the ((((((())))))) stuff as just a textual representation
TimToady to me, if things look different, they are different :) 15:30
that's probably why I dislike gratuitous abstractions...
Woodi_ I wonder do optimizations done on AST can be done on something more human friendly ;) 15:31
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Woodi_ btw. can we just *inline EVERYTHING!* into asm and optimize it as postcompilation ? :) 15:32
mst hrm, i think what I mean is that I think of lisp as an infospace (ala there being an XML infospace, of which the textual representation is merely the usual means for humans to poke it)
it's notable that e.g. symbolics (IIRC) didn't store a textual form at all, and when you went to edit something it formatted it according to whatever your editor/tidy config said 15:33
TimToady but yes, they can generally be considered isomorphic, except insofar as an AST often contains abstractions (cross links and such) that the s-exprs are usually thought of as lower-level than
or however you say that in English
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mst hmm, I've always regarded the cross links are more being ... pre-caching of lookups from the surrounding environment 15:34
then again, your "looks different" comment kinda suggests your brain does concrete visual processing in a way mine simply doesn't/can't 15:35
TimToady at some point you're not actually talking about s-exprs anymore, but lisp :)
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mst the extent to which s-exprs directly represent the conceptual structure makes that kinda blurred for me, much though I don't disagree 15:36
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TimToady on a linguistic side, it comes down to making an etic vs emic distinction 15:37
*the
emically, I meant "on the linguistic side", but etically, it came out the other way 15:38
dylanwh it's cons cells all the way down, man.
TimToady I'm not worried about all the way down, but all the way up. :P 15:39
at some point I punch you in the nose rather than handing you a cons cell :)
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Woodi_ yes, pairs can be used to construct rest data structures but it would be nice to have other data structures natively in Lisp. why torture yourself all the time ? :) 15:41
noninc I'm stuck here :( After building nqp retains nqp::backendconfig()<prefix> and afaik uses that to boot up perl. So if I move the C:\rakudo somewhere else, and change the .bat files accordingly, perl still refuses to run (While looking for 'C:\rakudo/share/nqp/lib/Perl6/BOOTSTRAP.moarvm': no such file or directory). Is there some way I can tell it to look other then by the built-in prefix? 15:42
I'd very much appreciate some help! 15:43
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TimToady rakudo is not yet relocatable like that, afaik 15:44
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TimToady symlinks are the usual remedy 15:45
MasterDuke noninc: i think mst did some work on making the build less dependent on specific paths, but i don't think that's been committed yet
noninc I am quite commited to make that possible somehow, but I have hardly any experience in the moar/nqp/rakudo sources :( Would you want to help me get started? 15:47
psch the biggest issue is that nqp::backendconfig() is compile time afair 15:49
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psch so either you replace everything that looks there with a check for e.g. an ENV var or $PWD 15:49
noninc yes. That seems to make sense, as it provides info on the specific installation.
psch or you figure out a way to move parts (i.e. probably only prefix) of the backendconfig to runtime
noninc Can I overwrite it befor loading perl's bootstrap into moar 15:50
psch m: use nqp; say nqp::backendconfig().HOW.^name
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«KnowHOW␤»
psch m: use nqp; say nqp::backendconfig().WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«{}␤»
psch ...no idea, honestly 15:51
noninc so best guess would be to rewirte the bootstrap to look somewhere else then just at backendconfig? 15:52
-rewirte +change
I will try that. 15:53
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TimToady at one point (don't know if it's still this way), in Perl 5 we put each absolute location into a fixed-size chunk of memory, with spare bytes at the end, so that a program could relocate the perl interpreter by rewriting those chunks in the binary 15:57
noninc I looked at the .moarvm files with a hex editor and the string was not long enough sadly 15:59
MasterDuke noninc: you could see what mst did for Alien::[Rakudo,NQP,MoarVM] 16:00
noninc let me google that 16:01
please excuse my ignorance, but I can only find irc logs when searching for alien::<perl6-stuff> 16:03
mst noninc: trout.me.uk/6dists/
noninc ty
mst noninc: I haven't quite got them cleaned up to where I wanted to inflict them on cpantesters etc.
TimToady: pretty sure activestate's installer still relies on that 16:04
noninc give me a moment please to read up on that
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noninc :/ alien::<perl6-stuff> just rebuilds with appropriate prefixes 16:18
-just 16:19
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noninc solution symbolic link from C:\perl6prefix\share\nqp\lib to <working directory>\blib 16:36
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noninc because rakudo/src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.nqp line 56 - 59 (github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/8cbb...r.nqp#L56) 16:37
?? "blib/$file"
is that blib thing documented somewhere?
tailgate is there an operator for type comparisons? 16:38
gfldex ~~
or .WHAT === .WHAT
sometimes .HOW ~~ Metamodel::* 16:39
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gfldex tailgate: see introspection sections in docs.perl6.org/language/typesystem 16:39
noninc I think I can rely on perl (moar) looking for itself (BOOTSTRAP.moarvm) in <working directory>/blib/..., can't I? 16:41
BenGoldberg m: class Foo { method posfix:<!>() { say "bang!" } }; Foo.new!; 16:43
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Negation metaoperator not followed by valid infix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3posfix:<!>() { say "bang!" } }; Foo.new!7⏏5;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤»
BenGoldberg Is there any chance that perl6 will something C++-ish, and allow an operator to be defined either as a method or as a sub? 16:44
(In the future, that is) 16:45
noninc Thank you for your help! cya later
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TimToady no, we do not allow other people to change the language in your lexical scope; you must use a sub to delegate to a method in that case 16:46
lucasb_ m: class C {}; multi sub postfix:<!>(C) { say "bang!" }; C.new!
camelia rakudo-moar 46e0ed: OUTPUT«bang!␤»
BenGoldberg How is it different from them exporting operators into your lexical scope when you 'use' a module? 16:47
TimToady those are subs, not methods
BenGoldberg What I mean is, there's more than one way to do it, no?
TimToady always :) 16:48
BenGoldberg Would it be too hard to add to the language? Or is it for a different reason?
TimToady all language change is lexically scoped in Perl 6, and method calls are not lexically scoped 16:49
you cannot add a method in some module and magically change the syntax in a different module 16:50
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TimToady we don't allow magical action at a distance without importing a special name at compile time, in which case it's no longer magical, but desirable 16:51
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BenGoldberg What if it were limited to places where the user has explicitly declared the type of a variable, and the declared type has the specified operator methods? 16:52
TimToady and the whole point of methods is that they're late bound, so you can't predict where the name is to be found
BenGoldberg: as I said, you can easily do that with subs that delegate to methods
they'll even get inlined in most cases 16:53
but language changes are always bound to function names, not method names
because function names are lexically scoped, and method names are not
to do otherwise means you can't actually understand which language you're parsing until you've analyzed the entire program 16:54
which is a form of accidental genericity we don't want to support ever
now, if you say 'use MyTerriblyGenericLanguage;' at the top, of course, you can do whatever you like 16:55
but stock Perl 6 isn't gonna mix up those namespaces
BenGoldberg So if I've got: class Foo { method posfix:<!>() { say "bang!" } }, and then I later write: my Foo $x .= new; then when the compiler later sees '$x!', it says, (at compile time!), $x is of type Foo, and Foo has an postfix<!>, therefore I shall translate this into $x."postfix<!>"(). The actual method lookup and binding would be done at runtime (late binding) just like any other method, but the decision whether $x! is a sub, method, 16:56
or error is done at compile time.
TimToady that would be C++, not Perl :) 16:57
BenGoldberg Yes! :)
TimToady however, does even C++ allow you to add new operators that way? or just rebind existing ones? 16:59
BenGoldberg But it's also a bit like perl5, where if I wrote: package Foo; use overload '+' => 'add'; and later wrote: $x + 2, it would call $x->add(2), a perfectly ordinary method call.
TimToady yes, because Perl 5 suffers the same illness as C++ in terms of not allowing new operators 17:00
BenGoldberg Neither perl nor C++ doesn't let you write wholly new operators, because that would require changing the lexer.
Well, perl you *could*, but it's messy! :)
TimToady yes, because lexers are a form of multi-pass parsing, which we don't do in Perl 6 17:01
having learned bitter lessons about that in Perl 5
so lexically scoped syntax change is fundamentally tied to one-pass parsing in Perl 6 17:02
multi-pass parsing is a form of accidental genericity, because the second pass you're actually parsing a different language 17:03
BenGoldberg The existance or non-existance of a specific operator is something that can be tested for with one pass parsing.
TimToady we made the mistake very large with source filters, but the same principle works at smaller scales as well as larger 17:04
sure, but only if something has been declared ahead of time
BenGoldberg Yes! I only want it if it's been declared ahead of time.
TimToady and methods are not in that category, unless you violate late binding as C++ does, to its shame
so you must declare not only the name but the delegation to a method in Perl 6 17:05
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BenGoldberg If someone uses augment class Foo, and adds an operator method, then they should be unsurprised if code which was previously compiled does not call that operator. 17:05
TimToady well, you could redirect the delegation after the fact, but the name of the new operator must certainly be declared up front
BenGoldberg Yes. 17:06
17:06 rgrinberg joined
TimToady you can repeat your statement without "augment" there 17:06
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BenGoldberg Good point. 17:07
TimToady just because other languages confuse things doesn't mean we have to :)
we actually believe in virtual methods by default in a way that C++ does not
17:08 djbkd_ left
BenGoldberg If someone write: class Foo; my Foo $x .= new; $x!; class Foo { method postfix<!>{ say "bang" } }; it's ok by me if it doesn't compile, because the compiler doesn't yet know of the existance of Foo's"!" 17:08
TimToady won't work in the other order either, and that also should not surprise you 17:09
BenGoldberg Well, won't work now, but I think it could be made to work, keeping with one pass parsing.
TimToady no, because the lexical scope of postfix:<!> is limited to the block in which it's declared, even if we did pay attention to it on method declarations, which I don't believe we do 17:10
BenGoldberg Hmm...
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TimToady m: class Foo { method postfix:<!>() { say self ~ "!" }; method foo { self! } }; Foo.new.foo 17:11
camelia rakudo-moar b77d2b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Negation metaoperator not followed by valid infix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3) { say self ~ "!" }; method foo { self!7⏏5 } }; Foo.new.foo␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤»
TimToady yes, we don't
m: class Foo { sub postfix:<!>($x) { say $x ~ "!" }; method foo { self! } }; Foo.new.foo 17:12
camelia rakudo-moar b77d2b: OUTPUT«Foo<95784800>!␤»
TimToady but in any case, the postfix can't leak out of the lexical scope unless explicitly exported and imported 17:13
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TimToady it's simply not allowed in Perl 6 for you to mess with someone else's lexical scope like that 17:13
BenGoldberg What prevents someone from writing a multi sub trait_mod:<is>( Class $c, :$overloaded! ), which looks at the names of methods of $c, and for any whose name starts with postfix, infix, prefix, circumfix, etc, generates an appropriate multi sub, and further declares those generated subs as exported? 17:14
TimToady to paraphrase one of our slogans, "All is fair if and only if you predeclare."
17:15 bstamour left
timotimo BenGoldberg: that still needs those multis to be imported into the right scopes 17:15
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TimToady that's fine, as long as the user says "use ThatCrazyModule;" 17:15
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TimToady it's no different than importing new sytactic functions that happen to delegate to methods, which we allow 17:16
*syn
BenGoldberg grins. 17:17
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BenGoldberg So the important thing is that the user be able to easily choose whether or not that behavior's imported. 17:17
TimToady Perl 6 doesn't mind if you declare 'use ShootMeNow;', just as long as it's explicit 17:18
BenGoldberg Ok, got it :)
17:18 cyphase joined, cyphase left
grondilu .tell pmurias you're right, passing text between stages is not the way to go. 17:18
yoleaux grondilu: I'll pass your message to pmurias.
17:19 cyphase joined, cdg joined
lucasb_ m: my &c = { * + 10 and * + 20 }; say c()(1) 17:24
camelia rakudo-moar b77d2b: OUTPUT«21␤»
lucasb_ I saw this ticket about multiple whatevercode in closures 17:25
I'm wondering if this snippet will fail next time camelia is recompiled
I'll wait :) 17:26
BenGoldberg m: my &c = { * + 10 and * + 20 }; say c()(0, 2)
camelia rakudo-moar b77d2b: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: my &c = { * + 10 and * + 20 }; say c()(-10) 17:27
camelia rakudo-moar b77d2b: OUTPUT«10␤»
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BenGoldberg m: my &c = { * + 10 and * + 20 }; dd &c; 17:27
camelia rakudo-moar b77d2b: OUTPUT«Block &c = -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|60885600) ... }␤»
lucasb_ I know, the snippet doesn't make sense. I was just testing the presence of the error or not
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lucasb_ just to clarify: in 'sub foo($a where {* < 5 and * > 9})', the where clause will always evalute to true, right? 17:29
it's not the case that the where clause is getting ignored
BenGoldberg I suppose that the real question is: If there are N *s in one expression, should the resulting block take one parameter or N parameters? 17:30
lucasb_ i think the answer always was "N parameters"
each star is a different paramenter... maybe that is the confusion in the ticket
BenGoldberg m: my &c = { * + 10 and * + 20 }; dd c(); 17:31
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed double closure; WhateverCode is already a closure without curlies, so either remove the curlies or use valid parameter syntax instead of *␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my &c = { * + 10 and * + 20 }7…»
lucasb_ that's why "* + *" sums two numbers, not just one
BenGoldberg m: my $c = { * + 10 and * + 20 }; dd $c; 17:32
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed double closure; WhateverCode is already a closure without curlies, so either remove the curlies or use valid parameter syntax instead of *␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $c = { * + 10 and * + 20 }7…»
BenGoldberg m: my $c = { * + 10 and * + 20 };
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed double closure; WhateverCode is already a closure without curlies, so either remove the curlies or use valid parameter syntax instead of *␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $c = { * + 10 and * + 20 }7…»
BenGoldberg m: my $c = * + 10 and * + 20;
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "+" in expression "* + 20" in sink context (line 1)␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $c = (* + 10 and * + 20); dd $c;
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«WhateverCode $c = { ... }␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $c = (* + 10 and * + 20); say $c(32);
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«52␤»
lucasb_ so, ok. it's confirmed. with this new revision, my previous snippet fails 17:33
BenGoldberg m: my $c = (* + 10 and * + 20); say $c(-10);
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«10␤»
BenGoldberg bisectable6: my $c = (* + 10 and * + 20); say $c(-10, 13);
BenGoldberg wonders where's the bot. 17:34
grondilu ls 17:35
17:35 mempko joined
grondilu ^sorry wrong window 17:35
BenGoldberg huggable, bots 17:36
huggable BenGoldberg, nothing found
BenGoldberg huggable, bots is The #perl6 irc channel normally hosts several helpful bots. I am a bot, and camelia, SourceBaby, yoleaux, Bisectable, Commitable, Benchable, Evalable are other bots who are usually here. 17:40
huggable BenGoldberg, nothing found
BenGoldberg huggable, bots :is: The #perl6 irc channel normally hosts several helpful bots. I am a bot, and camelia, SourceBaby, yoleaux, Bisectable, Commitable, Benchable, Evalable are other bots who are usually here. 17:42
huggable BenGoldberg, Added bots as The #perl6 irc channel normally hosts several helpful bots. I am a bot, and camelia, SourceBaby, yoleaux, Bisectable, Commitable, Benchable, Evalable are other bots who are usually here.
17:43 mempko left
BenGoldberg huggable, author 17:43
huggable BenGoldberg, nothing found
BenGoldberg huggable, author :is: was written by Zoffix++. 17:44
huggable BenGoldberg, Added author as was written by Zoffix++.
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TimToady BenGoldberg: note that 'and' is a short-circuit op and thus is really control flow 17:48
m: my $c = (* + 20 if * + 10); say $c(32); 17:49
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«52␤»
TimToady you've essentially said that
BenGoldberg Sure, I know that.
The important thing I'm taking away is that I can't write: 17:50
m: my $c = (* + *); say $c( 10, 20 );
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«30␤»
BenGoldberg Err
Hmm...
Ok, now I'm confused.
m: my $c = (* and *); say $c( 10, 20 ); 17:51
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«No such method 'CALL-ME' for invocant of type 'Whatever'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
TimToady we do not try to apply autopriming to control flow, it's only for simple expressions
BenGoldberg m: my $c = (* ?? * !! *); say $c( True, 10, 20 ); 17:52
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«No such method 'CALL-ME' for invocant of type 'Whatever'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
TimToady same deal
lucasb_ I found this interesting:
my &c = { $_ + * }; say c(2)(3) # this works
my &c = { $^a + * }; say c(2)(3) # this doesn't work
BenGoldberg m: my $c = (* ?? * !! *); dd $c;
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«Whatever $c = *␤»
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lucasb_ should the two snippets both fail or both work? :) 17:53
or maybe it's ok for $_ to be "more special" than $^a 17:54
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grondilu m: dd foo => "bar" 17:55
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«block <unit>␤»
grondilu ^wat
m: say foo => "bar"
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«Unexpected named argument 'foo' passed␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
BenGoldberg In the absence of an EVAL, it should be almost impossible to distinguish betwen a block which uses $_ and one which uses a single positional parameter
TimToady I think they should both fail, because they almost certainly show confusion on the part of the programmer 17:56
BenGoldberg m: my &c = -> $a { $a + * }; say c(2)(3);
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«5␤»
BenGoldberg m: my &c = { $^a + * }; say c(2)(3);
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed double closure; WhateverCode is already a closure without curlies, so either remove the curlies or use valid parameter syntax instead of *␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my &c = { $^a + * }7⏏5; say c…»
BenGoldberg m: my &c = { $_ + * }; say c(2)(3);
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«5␤»
TimToady though one could argue that use of $_ is "valid parameter syntax"
and hence so is $^a 17:57
BenGoldberg I definitely think all three of those ought to behave the same, either all correct or all wrong. 17:58
TimToady I'd be fine with all correct
lucasb_ cool
TimToady it's things like { * + * } that we really want to catch
17:59 djbkd left
lucasb_ I understand this malformed double closure error has been around for very long, but maybe someone can come with an usecase where it is needed to return a whatevercode from a block 17:59
BenGoldberg m: my &c = -> $a { $a + * + * }; say c(2)(3, 10);
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«15␤»
17:59 nadim_ left
BenGoldberg m: my &c = -> $a { * ?? $a !! * }; say c("true")(Bool.pick, "false"); 18:00
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«No such method 'CALL-ME' for invocant of type 'Str'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:01 nadim_ joined, djbkd joined
TimToady * specifically doesn't work on control flow, just as it specifically doesn't work on .. 18:01
m: say (1..*).WHAT 18:02
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«(Range)␤»
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BenGoldberg m: say (* ~~ Cool) 18:03
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤»
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AlexDaniel huggable, bots :is: The #perl6 irc channel normally hosts several helpful bots. I am a bot, and camelia, benchable, bisectable, buggable, committable, dalek, ilbot, NeuralAnomaly, SourceBaby, synopsebot6, Undercover, yoleaux are other bots who are usually here. 18:43
huggable AlexDaniel, Added bots as The #perl6 irc channel normally hosts several helpful bots. I am a bot, and camelia, benchable, bisectable, buggable, committable, dalek, ilbot, NeuralAnomaly, SourceBaby, synopsebot6, Undercover, yoleaux are other bots who are usually here.
brrt what does Undercover do? 18:45
AlexDaniel brrt: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/711#is...-235414744 18:46
TimToady figures out which code is under covered
brrt aha
that, ehm, makes sense
:-)
seatek unicode operators are slowly driving me insane 18:47
AlexDaniel seatek: which ones exactly?
seatek AlexDaniel: Right now the function combinator -- FINALLY figured out it wanted a "ring operator" symbol 18:48
timotimo ah
AlexDaniel seatek: you can use “o”
seatek o! 18:49
ok i'm sane again ;) thanks :)
AlexDaniel seatek: see this table: docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_texas
seatek i need to start mapping. couldn't even get the standard "compose" to make that ring operator symbol 18:50
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grondilu what best represent "no value"? Mu or Nil? 18:50
gfldex Nil 18:51
timotimo nil is the absence of a value you expected
whereas mu is an undefined value
grondilu ok
gfldex however, handling Nil is tricky. Sometimes () or Empty is better.
lucasb_ or maybe the undefined type object of the object you were expecting (Int, Str, etc.)
timotimo yeah, Empty will disappear when iterating 18:52
AlexDaniel m: sub foo { return Nil }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
AlexDaniel m: sub foo { return Mu }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
AlexDaniel m: sub foo { return Empty }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«()␤»
AlexDaniel m: sub foo { return }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
lucasb_ I think I don't like Nil for this purpose because it propagates, other types would raise an error 18:53
AlexDaniel these flavors of nothingness drive me insane, but unicode ops are nice :)
seatek i was just thinking the same thing
brrt not sure if i mssed it, but can we disable precompilation (and loading-of-precompiled modules) with an environment var
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brrt that would help the jit-bisect script i've written 18:54
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seatek Yeah, I can't cope with a letter "o" being an operator now. gotta map the little doohicky instead 18:56
AlexDaniel ｢∘_∘｣
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seatek showoff ;) 18:58
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grondilu first time I get this error: 19:10
===SORRY!===
Representation must be composed before it can be serialized
le shell a retourné 1
lucasb_ m: say <2 10>.sort({~$^a}) 19:17
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«(2 10)␤»
lucasb_ m: say <2 10>.sort({$^a.Str})
camelia rakudo-moar c4c071: OUTPUT«(10 2)␤»
lucasb_ so, "~" calls .Stringy, not .Str... this suprised me 19:18
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lucasb_ ...and IntStr.new(...).Stringy returns an IntStr 19:18
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lucasb_ so they are sorted numerically, not alpha 19:19
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dalek osystem: fb20051 | gfldex++ | META.list:
add Concurrent::File::Find
 19:27
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grondilu I got a cute idea for my pet project. Instead of naming my incremental subsets of Perl miniPerl::<some-roman-number>, I'm going to use SI prefixes. 20:11
so the first itteration is going to be called "yPerl" (pronounce yocto Perl) 20:12
also, I made a proper AST format
it would be fun if I ever arrive to MPerl, the "mega perl" :) 20:14
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japhb What in the heck does the &( ) do in github.com/ab5tract/Terminal-Print...ds.pm6#L97 ? 20:15
AlexDaniel
.oO( and yet another stupid version numbering theme was born )
japhb It seems to be some odd sort of passthrough
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japhb m: my \bar := &( "foo" ); dd bar 20:16
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«"foo"␤»
japhb m: my \bar := &( %( :foo, :bar ) ); dd bar
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«${:bar, :foo}␤»
japhb WTH is that operation?
20:17 Actualeyes left
psch m: say WHAT &( "foo" ) 20:17
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
psch probably the same as { ... }()
at least from the looks of it
japhb psch: maybe ...? Kindof an odd construction. 20:18
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psch m: say { &( 1 ) }().WHAT 20:21
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
geekosaur that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, tbh. it looks like a coercion to a Callable, in the same sense that $(...) coerces to item context (mot commonly as $[...] to indicate the list itself is the item instead of there being three items)
psch geekosaur: well, it doesn't coerce to something invokable. in fact, it doesn't seem to do anything 20:22
m: my \a := &( * ); a.WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«(Whatever)␤»
psch m: my $a = &( * ); a.WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ a used at line 1␤␤»
psch m: my $a = &( * ); $a.WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«(Whatever)␤»
psch m: my $a = *; $a.WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«(Whatever)␤»
psch m: say ({ 1 => 2 }).WHAT; say &({ 1 => 2 }).WHAT 20:24
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«(Hash)␤(Hash)␤»
psch so, yeah
also, Perl6::Actions.contextualizer: 20:25
it basically ignores &() completely 20:26
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/....nqp#L2401 20:27
line 2435ff specifically sets the context to 'item' if it's not % or @
so, yeah, &() is currently equivalent to ().item, is equivalent to $()
minus some special casing in the if before 20:28
oh, wait, that's only for $()
japhb m: my \bar := &( 1, 2, 3 ); dd bar
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«$(1, 2, 3)␤»
japhb Yup, it itemizes all right.
psch it is actually completely equivalent
psch wonders if that should instead be equivalent to { } 20:29
not sure that's useful, but having it as-is seems like an oversight
japhb Yeah, I think the current situation is just a bug
lucasb_ psch: do you mean &( 42 ) to be the same as -> { 42 } ?
japhb lucasb_: It's not clear what the most useful variation of Callable would be there. 20:30
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lucasb_ maybe it should just enforce that the expression inside parentheses is actually a callable, and do nothing else. 20:32
geekosaur yeh, possibly it just falls through to itemization by default because nobody was certain what the syntax should do?
lucasb_ for example, intuitively, I was expected that @(...) would create an array, but it creates a list. I have to type 'something.Array' to coerce to array, right? 20:33
I know, it coerces to... Positional, not Array
geekosaur right, and the simplest Positional is the basic read-only one, aka List 20:34
psch m: say @( 1 ).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
psch right, but what's the simplest Callable?
i'm not sure it's the Callable that has already been invoked
japhb psch: I would think that'd be plain old Block: { } -- which is *fewer* characters. 20:35
psch m: say Sub.^mro
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«((Sub) (Routine) (Block) (Code) (Any) (Mu))␤»
psch m: say Array.^mro 20:36
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«((Array) (List) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
psch japhb: so it should still be something invokable you say?
japhb: and including my evals there (and ignoring Cool) we should get a Code at the least, if not a Block
japhb: i'm not sure "there's a less-characters way to do it" means we can't have semantic consistency 20:37
AlexDaniel m: say ‘abc‘test'test’’ ~~ /^<-[']>+/
psch japhb: because &-sigil means "something invokable/Callable", just as @-sigil means "something Positional"
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢abc‘test｣␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ‘abc‘test'test’’ ~~ /^<-["'"]>+/
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Quotes are not metacharacters in character classes␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> 3say ‘abc‘test'test’’ ~~ /^<-7⏏5["'"]>+/␤ Repeated character (") unexpectedly found in character class␤ at <tmp>:1␤ …»
AlexDaniel m: say ‘abc‘test'test’’ ~~ /^<-[“'”]>+/
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢abc‘test｣␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ‘abc‘test'test’’ ~~ /^<-[”'”]>+/ 20:38
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Repeated character (”) unexpectedly found in character class␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> 3say ‘abc‘test'test’’ ~~ /^<-7⏏5[”'”]>+/␤｢abc‘test｣␤»
lucasb_ m: my &c = 42 20:39
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to &c; expected Callable but got Int (42)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
psch m: say "“foo”" ~~ /“foo”/
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢foo｣␤»
psch m: say "“foo”" ~~ /"“foo”"/
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢“foo”｣␤»
psch m: my &c = &( c )
lucasb_ ^^ just to be clear, I want that message when the inside of the &(...) is not a callable. can we have that? do you all agree?
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Uninstantiable; Callable)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
psch lucasb_: but that *also* means that mine should work, no?
lucasb_: oh, nevermind, judged only the eval, not the comment afterwards :) 20:40
lucasb_: i don't agree with the comment, because &() looks to me like it should do what { $blocky-stuff } does
japhb psch: Sure, I'm not saying having fewer characters means a WTDI is bad, just that there's no push to have &( ) mean { } on huffmanizing merit. And certainly I agree &( ) as a "something Callable" contextualizer is fine semantic consistency, yes.
lucasb_ psch: ok, I understand your point
20:42 Ven_ left
lucasb_ IIRC, the design of P6 says that scope is always created by braces... &( my $x = 42 ) would look strange 20:44
psch m: @( 1, 2) 20:45
camelia ( no output )
lucasb_ I mean... is 'my $x' inside the scope or outside?
psch i think we want a sink context warning there too
anyway, i'm also not precluding the possibility of being wrong because of some oversight
m: 1,2
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant integer 1 in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤Useless use of constant integer 2 in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤»
20:45 cyphase left
psch m: (1,2) 20:45
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant integer 1 in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤Useless use of constant integer 2 in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤»
psch m: @(1,2)
camelia ( no output )
psch m: $(1,2)
camelia ( no output )
psch lucasb_: i'd argue it inside the scope 20:46
lucasb_: you're coercing a statement_list to a Callable
lucasb_: there's probably a fine distinction that can be made between that and a Block, but i'm not fit enough anymore today to make it... :)
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japhb psch: Perhaps the fine distinction is exactly that it *isn't* a new scope ... 21:26
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grondilu m: "foo" ~~ / <alpha> || <digit> /; say $<alpha> 21:46
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢f｣␤»
grondilu m: "foo" ~~ / <+alpha+digit> /; say $<alpha>
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
grondilu can't I make a capture in the second form as well?
21:47 cyphase joined 21:55 MonkWannab joined, cyphase left
MonkWannab p6: say 3; 21:56
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«3␤»
lucasb_ grondilu: maybe the leading "+" prevents capturing, so you have to say / <foo=+alpha+digit> / or / $<foo> = <+alpha+digit> /
MonkWannab rakudo: 21:57
p6: say rakudo 21:58
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ rakudo used at line 1␤␤»
MonkWannab p6: rakudo:
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Confused␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3rakudo:7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ colon pair␤»
MonkWannab help 21:59
p6: say 'how do I start Perl 6?'; 22:00
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«how do I start Perl 6?␤»
grondilu here you go.
m: say "just 'm' is fine too"
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«just 'm' is fine too␤»
22:00 cyphase joined
grondilu MonkWannab++ nick of the month 22:01
MonkWannab m: say 'Hello';
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
22:01 itaipu left
MonkWannab m: say 'Thanks grondilu'; 22:01
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Thanks grondilu␤»
grondilu m: say $*VM; # in case you're curious what you're running 22:03
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«moar (2016.09.13.g.34.c.375.a)␤»
grondilu p6: say $*VM
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«moar (2016.09.13.g.34.c.375.a)␤»
MonkWannab m: say 'Is there a prize for nick of the month?';
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Is there a prize for nick of the month?␤»
grondilu nope, but you got your karma incremented
MonkWannab m: say 'LOL'; 22:04
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«LOL␤»
MonkWannab m: say $VM;
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$VM' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5$VM;␤»
MonkWannab p6: say $*VM; 22:06
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«moar (2016.09.13.g.34.c.375.a)␤»
MonkWannab m: say 'Thanks...off to tutorial land...'; 22:07
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Thanks...off to tutorial land...␤»
22:07 MonkWannab left 22:08 cyphase left
seatek I'm sad that .push throws up its hands on infinite arrays 22:09
psch m: "foo" ~~ / $<alpha>=<+alpha+digit> /; say $<alpha>
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢f｣␤»
psch ah, yeah, that's been mentioned 22:10
grondilu: in general, <> in regex only capture if the < isn't followed by something non-alpha
grondilu: at least that's how i remember it 22:11
lucasb_ seatek: can you show an example to clarify for me? :) 22:12
psch m: my @a = ^Inf; say "hi"; say @a.push: 0;
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«hi␤Cannot push to a lazy list␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
psch honestly, it seems perfectly reasonable to me vOv 22:13
'cause lazy means "potentially infinite"
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psch if you can eager it without a timeout, you can push *after* you eager it 22:13
m: my @a = lazy 1..10; say @a.is-lazy; @a .= eager; @a.push: 11; say @a 22:14
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«True␤[1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11]␤»
psch m: my @a = lazy 1..10; say @a.is-lazy; try @a.push: 11; @a .= eager; @a.push: 11; say @a 22:15
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«True␤[1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11]␤»
psch m: my @a = lazy 1..10; say @a.is-lazy; try @a.push: 11; say $!; @a .= eager; @a.push: 11; say @a
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«True␤Cannot push to a lazy list␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤[1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11]␤»
psch there
timotimo we also have (in theory/speculation) a "plan" method that pushes between the reified part and the iterator part of a list ... i think?
psch timotimo: i thought plan appends to the iterator?
m: say Array.^can('plan') 22:16
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«()␤»
timotimo could be
psch m: my @a; @a.can('plan')
camelia ( no output )
psch m: my @a; @a.can('plan').say
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«()␤»
psch well, we don't have it yet apparently
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seatek hehe - it's crazy really. abstract mathematically it might make sense to be able to work with inifinities like that. but as for partially reified lists... probably doing it in a more clear way without working with inifinites might make more sense 22:18
22:19 cdg left
psch seatek: well, compilers have to be at least somewhat realistic 22:19
seatek: although the mentioned .plan should work with at least one of the mentioned semantics
timotimo yes
psch (because math isn't realistic ha ha)
seatek yeah i was curious as to what was come up with to deal with it. i was expecting maybe a grand cosmic insight :) 22:20
timotimo the trick is you never reach the infinite part
then it all comes down to finite sequences and you're fine 22:21
seatek lazy .push
psch timotimo++
that makes .plan prepending to the iterator make more sense
cause, like, the iterator might not ever reach the appended bit because it's infinite 22:22
22:22 cyphase left
timotimo right 22:23
seatek i'm trying to think of a pracitcal use and can't
psch well, a queue seems straight forward as a use case 22:24
timotimo imagine you've got a channel that you're receiving items from via a lazy list, and you want to push some stuff to be worked on after the channel is done
seatek then it's not inifite -- just *potentially* infinite 22:25
a conditional basically
timotimo if you append a whole sequence you can "plan" new Channels in a row
seatek hidden behind the semantics
timotimo if it's infinite, you won't reach the planned stuff. if it isn't, you will
so what?
seatek well, it's always up to the programmer to create the clarity or not... seems like some interesting potential in that 22:26
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lucasb_ practical use for infinite lists? well, I think you use it for the clarity. for example, the list of all squared numbers, or fibonacci numbers. then you just grab from the front the items you'll need 22:27
seatek i meant, to push something onto an inifite list... what's the practical with that?
lucasb_ ah, ok. I misunderstood 22:28
timotimo that's why i was thinking the plan goes in *front* of the current iterator :)
seatek it would have to involve conditionals of some kind
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seatek Wasn't expecting I must explicity specify "$_" when printing to a filehandle: for @data { $fh.print($_) } 23:15
thought i'd be able to $fh.print and have it at that
it's better than a poke in the eye though 23:21
23:21 cyphase left
timotimo no, perl6 has almost nothing that uses $_ implicitly 23:21
you can set $*OUT and just .print for @data 23:22
23:23 BenGoldberg left
seatek weirdest things to readjust to 23:24
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psch $_ is not special, it's just a default 23:33
iterating over an array means you need a variable that contains the value for each iteration
if you don't supply that you get it in $_
i mean, yeah, i know perl5 was lots different there 23:34
but in the end the convenience was less than the effort required to learn it -- or so i think is part of the reason behind the decision for the change :)
seatek yeah if i wasn't used to it so much in p5, i woudln't have batted an eye 23:35
holy moley! you can use arrays inside regex's and they're implicitly or'd ??? how wonderful!
thought i'd try it for for kicks not even expecting
psch seatek: there's actually a subtle bug there, the semantics don't quite work out
seatek oh really... 23:36
BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; say "abcd" ~~ /(@a)/;
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤ 0 => ｢a｣␤»
psch yeah, it's #126713
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=126713
psch well, whether it actually *is* a bug depends on whether arrays do interpolate with | or || 23:37
so, yeah, it's in large parts about what was intended with the synopses, which are by now almost completely out of date :)
seatek interesting 23:38
23:38 cyphase left
psch where | interpolates as LTM aware or and | interpolates as first-come-first-match or 23:38
err, the second is ||, not |
i haven't actually tested whether the || semantics would be identical to what array interpolation currently does though
in any case, it's *probably* a really interesting and fun bug in the regex engine, assuming it is currently behaving wrongly :) 23:39
BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; say "abcd" ~~ /(@a)*/; 23:40
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢abc｣␤ 0 => ｢a｣␤ 0 => ｢b｣␤ 0 => ｢c｣␤»
BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; say "abcd" ~~ /([||@a])*/;
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢abc｣␤ 0 => ｢a｣␤ 0 => ｢b｣␤ 0 => ｢c｣␤»
BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; say "abcd" ~~ /([|@a])*/;
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢abc｣␤ 0 => ｢a｣␤ 0 => ｢b｣␤ 0 => ｢c｣␤»
23:41 tushar joined
psch BenGoldberg: well, in the RT backtracking is involved... :) 23:41
AlexDaniel seatek: well, if I recall correctly, you can also have regexes in this array
psch m: my @a = 'a', rx/b/, 'c'; say "abc" ~~ /@a/ 23:42
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤»
psch m: my @a = 'a', rx/b/, 'c'; say "abc" ~~ /@a+?/
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤»
psch m: my @a = 'a', rx/b/, 'c'; say "abc" ~~ /@a+/
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢abc｣␤»
psch m: my @a = 'a', rx/b/, 'bc', 'cd'; say "abc" ~~ /@a*?/
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢｣␤»
psch m: my @a = 'a', rx/b/, 'bc', 'cd'; say "abc" ~~ /^(@a*?)$/
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«｢abc｣␤ 0 => ｢abc｣␤»
psch vOv
23:42 cyphase joined
psch m: my @a = 'a', rx/b/, 'bc', 'cd'; say "abcd" ~~ /^(@a*?)$/ 23:43
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
psch but yeah, that's the bug from the ticket still
as i said, it's probably hard
or it's just niche
i mean, *i* don't want to dig for it so yeah
tushar How can i differentiate between "my @a=[1..5];" and "my @a=[[1..5],[6..10]];"? In words, I can say that first one is array and second one is array of arrays. If I use WHAT on both of them, I get "(Array)". 23:44
psch tushar: either with nominal typing or by examining elements
AlexDaniel tushar: don't you need a comma there? 23:45
ah no
nvm
psch m: my Array[Int] @a = [1,2,3],[4,5,6];
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to @a; expected Array[Int] but got Array ($[1, 2, 3])␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
psch m: my Array[Int] @a = (Int @ = [1,2,3]), (Int @ = [4,5,6]);
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my Array[Int] @a = (Int7⏏5 @ = [1,2,3]), (Int @ = [4,5,6]);␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ …»
AlexDaniel I was thinking about this: 23:46
m: my @a=[[1..5]]; say @a.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]␤»
AlexDaniel m: my @a=[[1..5],]; say @a.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«[[1, 2, 3, 4, 5],]␤»
psch AlexDaniel: oh, yeah, that's single arg rule
m: my Array[Int] @a = (my Int @ = [1,2,3]), (my Int @ = [4,5,6]); say @a[0].of
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
psch anyway, yeah, typing of arrays (of arrays) gets cumbersome eventually
tushar: your best bet is probably something like '... where all(*) ~~ Int' 23:47
AlexDaniel I am so accustomed to seeing trailing commas that code without them seems wrong to me by default :)
psch tushar: it depends on your exact use case though i suppose
tushar: like, do you know how many Arrays containing Ints are supposed to be in your Array 23:48
tushar psch: it is possible that array doesn't contain Int only. It can hold anything.
psch tushar: well what do you want to check for then
tushar: whether any of the elements in the array is itself an array?
tushar psch: yes that what I am trying to detect. whether user provides an array with elements or an array with array of elements. I hope it make sense. 23:50
23:51 c74d left
tushar e.g. my @a = [1..3] --> this is an array with elements. my @b = [[1..3],[4..6]] --> this is an array with array as elements where each array has elements. 23:52
psch m: multi f(@a where any(@a) ~~ Positional) { say "at least one array-ish thingy" }; multi f(@) { say "no array-ish thingy" }; f [[1,2,3], 4]; f [1,2,3] 23:53
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«at least one array-ish thingy␤no array-ish thingy␤»
psch tushar: that's what i think is the obvious way to differentiate
tushar: of course you can also do that in smart match instead of signatures, but the idea remains the same
23:53 cyphase left
tushar psch: thanks. That's what I exactly trying to achieve. Thanks a lot. 23:54
gfldex m: my @a = [1..5]; my @b = [[1..5],[6..10]]; say [@a.shape, @b.shape]; 23:59
camelia rakudo-moar 4abc28: OUTPUT«[(*) (*)]␤»

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