»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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lookatme_q :) morning 00:37
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dominix Hi everyone 00:44
I Would like to know how perl6 handle perl5 when using <perl5> keyword to load a module 00:46
lookatme_q dominix, It's using Perl 5 C interface 00:47
dominix Is it launching a perl5 instance or is it using a nqp/perl5 interpreter
lookatme_q If you mean Inline::Perl5
dominix Yes
lookatme_q yes, It's using Perl 5 interpreter
Same as Inline::Python, they are all using the C interface 00:48
dominix Is this perl5 a linked lib or is it included in perl6 ?
lookatme_q a library
common named perl5-dev
dominix Ok, so it might be linked to the installed perl5 version , right ? 00:49
lookatme_q hmm, I am not very sure it will linked to the installed Perl 5 00:50
dominix I mean if my local perl5 had a bug with a specific module, I may have the same in perl6 using inline::perl5 00:51
lookatme_q hmm, probably
dominix I would like to be sure
lookatme_q you better check it :)
dominix I can not uninstall system perl5... 00:53
lookatme_q yes, you can't
dominix I can install another perl version with perlbrew but in that case I don't know which perl5 perl6 gonna use. 00:56
lookatme_q check the library version
using package manager
dominix How ? 00:58
lookatme_q Which distribution do you used ?
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dominix Ubuntu 18.04 01:05
Perl6 is the last release 01:06
2019.03
Perl6.d
The perl5 module I am trying to use is know to work on 5.14 01:07
lookatme_q so what's your Perl 5 version is ? 01:08
5.14 ?
dominix There is known problems with other version.
Yes it's an internal project things, based on POE 01:09
lookatme_q dominix, try this, apt-cache show PACKAGE, PACKAGE is the package name, I am not sure the name of Perl 5 dev package on Ubuntu
dominix My perl5 is 5.22
lookatme_q or using dpkg : dpkg -L package_name 01:10
dominix 5.26 01:14
Sorry 01:15
lookatme_q hmm, if you are using newer Ubuntu version, it'll using new version Perl 5 obviously 01:17
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MidCheck hello，This is a draft of my GSoC proposal. Can someone help me make it better? 02:28
docs.google.com/document/d/1-we2kt...sp=sharing
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ugexe What is “Information Confrontation Technology”? 02:54
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MidCheck ugexe, It belongs to a kind of cyberspace security 03:03
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ugexe sounds like something used offensively 03:28
MidCheck but we are learning defense 03:33
ugexe some might think great firewall is defense, so maybe that is true 03:37
depending on ones perception
MidCheck that's right 03:41
defense is a complicated thing 03:43
ugexe yeah, U.S. military is finding that out the hard way as companies are refusing / canceling government contracts because workers think it is not moral to help kill people or deny freedoms 03:45
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masak good morning, #perl6 04:00
m: say "food" ~~ / "fool" | "food" /
evalable6 ｢food｣
masak I have a question. the above regex is all declarative, yes? and the `|` operator is transparent to declarativeness, so it "seeps into" both alternations. 04:01
but what about something like this?: 04:02
m: say "food" ~~ / { say "procedural!" } ["fool" | "food"] /
evalable6 procedural!
｢food｣
masak the `{}` block throws the regex out of the declarative and into the procedural. is the rest of the regex now procedural, all the way until we call a subrule? 04:03
AlexDaniel MidCheck: have you talked to samcv yet?
masak or does the regex "regain declarativeness" in the group `[]` ?
MidCheck AlexDaniel: yes, we have been talking 04:04
ugexe: I believe in freedom 04:06
masak my reading of S05 is that the `[]` is now in the procedural part. 04:09
if so, does the `|` in it act exactly like a `||`?
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AlexDaniel MidCheck: I made some minor tweaks 04:16
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jmerelo releasable6: status 04:17
releasable6 jmerelo, Next release in ≈12 days and ≈14 hours. 11 blockers. 0 out of 167 commits logged
jmerelo, Details: gist.github.com/d976872b867741ad9f...3b3177116e
AlexDaniel kawaii: how is it going, btw? :) 04:19
kawaii: maybe it's a good time to run Blin
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MidCheck AlexDaniel: ok, i will check it after lunch 04:21
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tyil jmerelo: are there plans to enter GSoD? 05:50
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jmerelo tyil: yes 05:55
tyil sweet! 05:56
jmerelo tyil: it's slightly different from GSoC. There are no "umbrella organizations", but single "projects". So of course I'm trying to propose Perl 6 docs
tyil: I've already created a repo. I'll send you an invite. Specific "ideas" have to be proposed in this case, too. 05:57
tyil alright, thanks :D
I'll take a peek later today at work and try to help out
moritz what does the "D" stand for? Death? :D
destruction? 05:58
jmerelo moritz: hope not. Documents. It's been spun off summer of code this year
moritz jmerelo: ah, nice!
jmerelo moritz: wanna help? You're the ur-documentor, after all.
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jmerelo Talking about documentation, contributions to it have decreased sharply lately. It would *really* help if you would take a look at the issues from time to time and helped a bit there... 06:07
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jmerelo Every little contribution helps... 06:08
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moritz jmerelo: I'll try to free some time for it 06:29
jmerelo moritz++ 06:30
moritz: should I add you to the repo, then?
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moritz jmerelo: yes, wouldn't hurt 06:34
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atroxaper Hello, #perl6 ! 10:37
kawaii AlexDaniel: morning! Yes I agree since it's getting close to cutting 2019.04. I'll provision some server space at work to get it running this week.
AlexDaniel yaay
kawaii: also if you can get me the json file from the output I'd love that
(to update ecosystem-unbitrot issues) 10:38
atroxaper Do we support variadic functions in NativeCall? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variadic_function#In_C
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timotimo just recently there was a proof-of-concept gist posted 10:46
but i think it might still be missing something related to varargs calling conventions
ctilmes_ atroxaper: If there are only a few different variations you need, you can define each of them (like 1 name for 2 args, 1 for 3 args) 10:47
timotimo but aren't you also forced to put the "number of arguments actually passed" into a certain register?
ctilmes_ If it requires that I don't know how to do it. 10:51
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lizmat weekly: blogs.perl.org/users/pawel_murias/2...hrome.html 11:05
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
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timotimo dyncall does say it has support for varargs 11:22
... i can't find anything about varargs in dyncall 11:26
atroxaper timotimo: journald native subs uses variadic. There are complex cubs without it - will use them.
timotimo cubs? like little bear babies? 11:27
atroxaper ctilmes_: I thought so too :), but in my case I do not know a types of arguments.
ctilmes_ You can do some fancy things with tcc (github.com/CurtTilmes/perl6-tcc) embeds a C compiler into your program 11:28
atroxaper timotimo: yes. ~complex~ cubs xD
timotimo - updated API, introduced DC_CALL_C_ELLIPSIS_VARARGS
pmurias blogs.perl.org/users/pawel_murias/2...hrome.html # Rakudo.js update draft (the test runner is still undergoing last minute fixes to work on machines that aren't mine)
timotimo so, anybody want to try figuring varargs support out? :) 11:29
atroxaper ctilmes_: TCC?! Brilliant! I will leave it as a last resort :) 11:30
ctilmes_ TCC is nice in that you have complete power, but it isn't really a great general solution to publish in a module 11:31
atroxaper ctilmes_: agreed
... will be back
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timotimo If the function being called is variadic (varargs) then ffi_prep_cif_var must be used instead of ffi_prep_cif. ffi_status ffi prep cif var (ffi cif *cif, ffi abi varabi, unsigned int [Function] nfixedargs, unsigned int varntotalargs, ffi type *rtype, ffi type **argtypes) 11:33
so that's how you do it in libffi
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pmurias github.com/pmurias/perl6-js-roast-test-runner should now work 12:02
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pmurias it would be super cool if someone tested that at least running a single test works on boxes other then mine 12:03
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lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2019/04/08/...aking-off/ 13:16
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[Coke] If you're interested in serving on the TPF GC or want to suggest someone, please ping me via email (I am not on IRC frequently anymore). 13:42
yoleaux 24 Mar 2019 00:04Z <timotimo> [Coke]: my emails aren't reaching alan, could you point my latest blog post out to him? (google mail is telling me it thinks my mails are spam)
[Coke] .msg timotimo don't @ me - use email. I'm not really on IRC anymore. 13:43
yoleaux [Coke]: Sorry, this command is admin-only.
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[Coke] .msg timotimo don't msg me - use email. I'm not really on IRC anymore. 13:43
yoleaux [Coke]: Sorry, this command is admin-only.
[Coke] .tell timotimo don't msg me - use email. I'm not really on IRC anymore.
yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
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holyghost hello, back again 14:29
I'm going to do some audio effects tomorrow (wikipedia - audio effects) 14:32
for in the perl6 DAW
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AlexDaniel oh yay, a debian sid user 15:24
using the distro packages :)
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holyghost hi JJ, I'm going to try to put the docs in my packages, I took a month of vacation 15:37
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holyghost I'm going to search for the Wario nintendo GBoy games and recreate them on perl6 SDL2 15:47
The graphics system I have on Xliff's server, now I need gfx
and my simple game system
jmerelo holyghost: lucky you :-)
holyghost :-0 15:48
s/O/)
I'll post it on github later on
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holyghost I'm glad the SDL2 system is in place 15:52
The gfx loop is in and I just need to put in a game system 15:53
which I have but needs tuning for my DAW and perl6 game software, I might need to write another game kit than the Game::Markov things 15:54
SmokeMachine is there a docker image of Rakudo star 2019.03.1?
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jmerelo SmokeMachine: I can create one in a while for you if you want... 16:01
SmokeMachine: as a matter of fact, the jjmerelo/alpine-perl6 is up to date with 2019.03.1 Core language should be the same, unless you want the packaging, of course... 16:02
SmokeMachine jmerelo: Thanks! Ill use it... I just want to test a reported bug on Red that I can't reproduce: github.com/FCO/Red/issues/135#issu...-480790839 16:03
jmerelo SmokeMachine: I do have it on my machine anyway. Will check it out. 16:06
SmokeMachine jmerelo: thanks... 16:07
jmerelo SmokeMachine: but you tried it already with 2019.03.1, right? It's in the comments... 16:08
SmokeMachine jmerelo: yes, but the master (using rakudobrew)... But I have averything installed and working... I was trying with docker to test it from 0... 16:10
jmerelo SmokeMachine: the jjmerelo/test-perl6 container should do that directly if you don't need any additional external libraries to install... 16:11
SmokeMachine: it's testing OK with 2019.03.1. I installed everything from scratch, including DBIIsh, which complained a bit but got installed anyway 16:13
SmokeMachine jmerelo: have you installed from the repo? 16:15
jmerelo SmokeMachine: yep 16:16
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SmokeMachine I had to install gcc, postgres-client, mysql-client, mysql-dev, sqlite-libs, but its not installing NativeLibs yet... 16:25
jmerelo: ^^
jmerelo SmokeMachine: ah, I didn't install any of that... that's why it complained. Maybe Red skipped that test? 16:29
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jmerelo SmokeMachine: if you are going to use all that, you'll need to install a bit of that inside the container. Best thing would be to create a custom container for testing it. 16:29
SmokeMachine jmerelo: I had to `--force-test` the NativeLibs... but now Red is installed... I couldn't reproduce the error... 16:31
jmerelo: yes.. I think Ill do that...
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ctilmes1 NativeLibs is installed in an unfortunate manner. There is an older version embedded within DBIish, and a later, better version installed by itself 16:50
"use NativeLibs" will force an install of DBIish, so it can get the older one
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cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! LogP6 (1.4.1) by 03ATROXAPER 16:58
tony-o . 17:04
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guifa What would be the best way to get IEEE-style rounding? (where, e.g. 1.5 rounds up to 2, but 2.5 rounds down to 2)? 17:26
Kaiepi how do i start a new topic on the perl 6 users mailing list? 17:27
jmerelo guifa: because of the IEEE 754 representation?
Kaiepi: just send an email, I guess. Don't think there's GUI for that.
Kaiepi ok i'll try that 17:28
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guifa jmerelo: yup, for number formatting in CLDR supposed to use half-even rounding. , but .round uses half-up 17:29
jmerelo guifa: unless you hack it somehow, I'm afraid you'll have to program a new round method 17:33
guifa I mean *technically* it says implementations are free to have the rounding method they want, but it strongly implies the half-even should always be an option. And I really should hew close to other implementations 17:34
jmerelo guifa: you can try and propose it in the problem-solving repo; but other than that, you're on your own, I guess. 17:36
tony-o that'd be an easy thing to put in rakudo, i could add it if you want to open a ticket guifa (github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues) 17:38
Kaiepi jmerelo, sending an email to [email@hidden.address] works. thanks 17:39
guifa tony-o++ I’ll put in a ticket. I have a feeling I won’t be the only person that will eventually need it
jmerelo Kaiepi: sure :-)
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guifa Is having multiple alias considered good / bad / neutral? For example, I’ve got a parameter “maximum-significant-digits”. That mirrors the usage in ICU and other support docs, but it seems natural to want some variants. max-sd is about as terse as it could get, but then I wonder if Is hould allow “max-significant-digits”, “maximum-sig-digits”, “max-sig-digits” as well. 20:12
Altai-man_ I'd go with `maximum-significant-digits` or `max-significant-digits` if you want to make it a bit shorter. `max-sd` doesn't tell the reader what it is immediately, like, "Max system disk" or "Max super driver" or... 20:15
it sure is pretty long, of course, but there is no much can be done. 20:16
timotimo hopefully your code editor or ide can autocomplete :) 20:17
yoleaux 13:43Z <[Coke]> timotimo: don't msg me - use email. I'm not really on IRC anymore.
Altai-man_ yes, in best case it should be on IDE. 20:18
guifa Heh, ideally most of this stuff is auto filled in. Number formatting is hideous with all the options.
do you show the decimal separator or no? And if so, what is it? Do you group thousands? What’s the distance between the decimal and the first one, and then from the first one onward? Max minimum integer, significant, fractional, and exponential digits, padding and rounding, prefixes and suffixes *sigh* 20:20
Kaiepi what scope would GLOBAL::<foo> be in? 20:21
gabc hi, is there a reason why there is a need for parenthesis around a block? why can't I do `.map { say $_ }` or something like that?
guifa gabc: you’re passing it to the method .map. You use a colon if you’re not chaining it 20:22
`.map: {say $_ }` for instance
gabc Ooooh indeed
moritz gabc: without any separators, `.map { say $_ }` would be two terms in a row, which Perl 6 generally forbids
without this rule, it would be nearly impossible to generate good syntax error messages 20:23
gabc That is fair, thanks! :)
guifa And .map{$_} would be looking for the a key with value $_ in the attribute map :-)
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guifa (theoretically, at least, It would probably error) 20:24
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> I don't have my computer with me but a thought popped into my mind: can you use unions as a way to emulate sum types? Something like my (Int | Bool) $v = 10; #or $v = True
gabc I see, thanks for the insights :) 20:25
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guifa Aernus: nope. 20:27
AlexDaniel but… but!
guifa p6: my (Int|Bool) $foo;
evalable6 (exit code 1) 04===SORRY!04=== Error while compiling /tmp/kk6iP1dPzu
Term definition requires an initializer
at /tmp/kk6iP1dPzu:1
------> 03my (Int|Bool)08⏏04 $foo;
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> hmm... can you define a union operator that wraps the generated union in some type of way to do that? 20:28
guifa eh if I think I understand what you’re wanting you can use a where clause 20:29
p6: my $foo where Int | Str; $foo = “bar”; $foo = 10;
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evalable6 20:29
guifa but
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> I specifically wanted to manipulate the sum type as an object -- a where clause would normally work for every other situation
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guifa p6: my $foo where Int | Str; $foo = 2.5 20:29
evalable6 (exit code 1) Type check failed in assignment to $foo; expected <anon> but got Rat (2.5)
in block <unit> at /tmp/fQHeYW9N43 line 1
Xliff m: my @a = ('Gtk'); (my $type = 'GtkGrid') ~~ 20:30
s/ ( @p ) ( <[A..Za..z]>+ )/{ $0.uc }::{ $1 }/; say $type
evalable6 (exit code 1) 04===SORRY!04=== Error while compiling /tmp/CGGHzNX4hX
Missing…
Xliff, Full output: gist.github.com/8e2aa2a27f9d830d2a...5d871a0c2f
Xliff m: my @a = ('Gtk'); (my $type = 'GtkGrid') ~~ s/ ( @p ) ( <[A..Za..z]>+ )/{ $0.uc }::{ $1 }/; say $type
evalable6 (exit code 1) 04===SORRY!04=== Error while compiling /tmp/9aYQmBqjtx
Variabl…
Xliff, Full output: gist.github.com/5b30a967814f3e347d...c138a5bc61
Xliff m: my @a = ('Gtk'); (my $type = 'GtkGrid') ~~ s/ ( @a ) ( <[A..Za..z]>+ )/{ $0.uc }::{ $1 }/; say $type
evalable6 GTK::Grid
AlexDaniel m: class Foo { has $.a }; class Bar { has $.b }; my $x = Foo.new(:42a) but Bar.new(:56b); say $x.a; say $x.b 20:31
evalable6 (exit code 1) 42
No such method 'b' for invocant of type 'Foo+{<anon|1>}'. Did you mean 'a'?
in block <unit> at /tmp/gAVzx_5H5D line 1
AlexDaniel why is this not working?
I thought it should
m: class Foo { has $.a }; class Bar { has $.b }; my $x = Foo.new(:42a) but Bar.new(:56b); say $x.a; say $x.Bar.b
evalable6 42
56
guifa So you’re wanting it to be a Int, but be able to assign a boolean value for wherever it gets used as a boolean separate from the integer value? Sorry for the questions just want to make sure I’m getting it to do what you’re wanting 20:32
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> Less struct, more union. I want it to be able to store one or the other, not both
AlexDaniel m: class Foo { method a { 42 } }; class Bar { method b { 50 } }; subset Baz where Foo | Bar; my Baz $x = Foo.new; $x = Bar.new 20:34
evalable6
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> I guess the where clause works
guifa I think the where clause should work then. When you assign, it will check that it’s one or the other
AlexDaniel m: class Foo { method a { 42 } }; class Bar { method b { 50 } }; subset Baz where Foo | Bar; my Baz $x = Foo.new; $x = Bar.new; $x = Int
evalable6 (exit code 1) Type check failed in assignment to $x; expected Baz but got Int (Int)
in block <unit> at /tmp/4vy9LxwYMN line 1
guifa ^^ The subset will let you name it, if you’ll use it a lot. 20:35
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> Ooh yes subsets That looks much better to me 20:36
<Tyler (Aearnus)> That feels like a very theorem-prover-y way to use subset. It's fantastic 20:37
guifa The nice thing about subset is you’ll be able to do type checks for that Int-Bool-Combo, BUT unfortunately you type check against Int or Bool strictly because the .WHAT and the .isa won’t return Int or Bool. 20:38
There may be a way to figure out the classes it’s made of, but I’m not sure off the top of my head
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AlexDaniel Bool is already an Int, no? 20:40
yes
guifa Yeah in this particular case both are Cool
AlexDaniel not just that, but both are Int 20:41
guifa So I think you’d be safe to ask for Int() or Bool() in a sub
errrrr 20:42
I stand corrected
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> Perhaps it's smart to define a custom | operator that does the same thing, but also redefines .WHAT
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guifa p6: class A { ; }; class B { ; }; subset Foo where A|B; my Foo $a = A.new; say $a.isa(A); say $a.isa(B); 20:43
evalable6 True
False
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> nice :^) 20:44
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guifa But … 20:44
p6: class A { ; }; class B { ; }; subset Foo where A|B; my Foo $a = A.new; say $a.isa(A); say $a.isa(B); say $a.isa(Foo)
evalable6 True
False
False
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> Ohh, it's because the subset doesn't define a type it is the subset of 20:45
<Tyler (Aearnus)> So you're not constraining the type in that way, I guess
guifa yeah, but the docs say “A subset declares a new type that will re-dispatch to its base type”
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> If you said something like subset Foo is Cool where Int|Bool it'd probably do what you expect 20:46
guifa That doesn’t work. Can’t is Type/Class a subset it seems (lacks the add_parent method) 20:47
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discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> Err, I meant of not is 20:49
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guifa Oh duh 20:54
I’m an idiot
You can check via .does(Foo) and not .isa(Foo) 20:55
Because it’s a role and not a class
Geth doc: Kaiepi++ created pull request #2711:
JS nutshell: clarify variables section, clean up code examples		 20:57
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guifa also, aearnus and AlexDaniel: thanks for getting me to remember about the subsets and where unions. Will make some of my Intl module codes much cleaner with a Str|LanguageTag union 21:01
AlexDaniel I wouldn't call it a union though :) 21:02
guifa I mean yeah. But I dunno a better word for it ha
AlexDaniel junction
guifa err junction
guifa needs more sleep 21:03
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discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> Err yeah I kept calling them unions too Figures why I couldn't find them in the docs 21:09
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SmokeMachine Excuse me... but could, please, some one help me? Can anyone reproduce this error? github.com/FCO/Red/issues/135#issu...-480790839 21:32
tony-o wonder what the output of his git status is 21:34
or git diff
SmokeMachine tony-o: he tried with a fresh clone... 21:35
tony-o: some tries after that... 21:36
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Xliff How can I create a private class variable? 21:43
tony-o he has a file from building/testing/attempting install of red `site#source/D10D41AB1ED8F1B8E05FB2205140E2E2710D3419`
Xliff Just "class A { my $a }" ??
tony-o Xliff: class A { has $!a; }
discord6 <Tyler (Aearnus)> Xliff: using has $!a
<Tyler (Aearnus)> ah shoot, ninja'ed
Xliff tony-o: private class variable. 21:44
tony-o that is private.
Xliff not an attribute.
guifa my $a works
Xliff That is a private attribute. Its lifetime is over an instance.
tony-o ah, then my $a works
Xliff OK. Thanks.
ugexe That will be included in all classes 21:45
class instances
(which is probably why you want it...)
tony-o SmokeMachine: he has other files in his repo from building that would be clues to how that error is happening
in his last response, it's the file `/home/bazzaar/git_projects/p6code/Red/site#sources/D10D41AB1ED8F1B8E05FB2205140E2E2710D3419` 21:46
ugexe Seems like their perl6 install is screwy 21:47
tony-o looks like it needs nuke 21:48
SmokeMachine hum! I haven’t seen that!!! Thank you guys!
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Xliff m: my $a = --> Int { 1 }; $a().say 21:49
evalable6 (exit code 1) 04===SORRY!04=== Error while compiling /tmp/cE8NCqloPp
Prefix …
Xliff, Full output: gist.github.com/2b0be65a19d7dd02c7...0397cbb23e
Xliff m: my $a = -> --> Int { 1 }; $a().say
evalable6 1
Xliff OK. Well at least I had that right.
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Xliff Hmm... this is odd. 22:19
I can use the following module "use SourceViewGTK::View", however when I try to "require .value" where $_.value is "SourceViewGTK::View", I get an error: "Could not find SourceViewGTK::StyleChooserWidget in:..." 22:20
Before you ask, yes, the lib directory is included in the list of libs. Otherwise the initial "use SourceViewGTK::View" would not work. 22:21
Is there something about require that ... ahem... requires special handling?
timotimo i think that's a compile-time/run-time thing 22:23
the require happens at run time, but perhaps the error happens at compile time
you may have to indirectify this
Xliff Ah. I do require "::( .value )" and it hangs. Progress!
OK. No hang, but long time processing. Finally got another recurring error. Definitely progress. So you were right about the indirectify. timotimo++ 22:24
timotimo phew :)
perhaps have to go via GLOBAL::
Kaiepi how would you say what named parameters are mainly used for? 22:25
i'm writing up the functions section of the js nutshell page but there is no equivalent to them in javascript
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Xliff Maybe. I keep getting "Type check failed for return value; expected Str but got Whatever (*)" when I do "::(.value).new()" 22:32
And NONE of those routines require a string return value.
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timotimo what does --ll-exception point at? 22:37
Kaiepi: often what you'd use "true" or "false" in random places in js you'd have as a named parameter in perl6 22:38
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timotimo also in javascript you have some apis that rely on "configuration objects" to be passed 22:39
guifa Kaiepi: As a general rule, I tend to think of them as options. Consider a program like cp. We all know the basic and 99% use case is cp foo bar; but sometimes we need options, so we get cp -R foo bar. That’s a prime use case for the named parameters
timotimo like jquery's ajax thingie; you pass an object with the url, data, type, success/failure callbacks, ...
ugexe require "::( .value )" this isn't going to do anything 22:40
its a literal string value
no quotes are needed here
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timotimo oh, d'oh, of course 22:42
ugexe fwiw you might try `(require ::($ = "some string")).new`
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guifa Kaiepi: they can also be good in where in other langauges you’d have a some sort of a fluent interface 22:44
ugexe i'm not sure what that might fix, but zef had a similar problem at one point that requires the `$ =`: github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/a1d6d543...f.pm6#L133
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Xliff ugexe: So I can't require something at the lexical level for use, later? 22:46
I'm using `require ::(.value)'
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tony-o try require ::("{.value}") 22:47
ugexe you can, i was just shortening the two steps down
tony-o there's a couple of spots in DB::Xoos where that was required too
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Xliff OK. So after I do that, why does any indirect all say "expecting return value of Str but got Whatever (*)" 22:47
ugexe m: require ::("Test"); 22:48
evalable6
Xliff And why would ::({ $value }) be any different than ::( $value )
ugexe so it must be weird
Xliff m: my $a = 'Test'; require ::( $a )
evalable6
Xliff m: my $a = 'Test'; require ::( $a ); my $t = ::( $a ).new; $t.^name.say 22:49
evalable6 (exit code 1) You cannot create an instance of this type (Test)
in block <unit> at /tmp/i3VA2Chn9w line 1
Xliff *shrug*
ugexe Test isnt a class, its a module/package
tony-o Xliff: it loads the file in a different way if you do "{.value}"
Xliff tony-o: Really? 22:50
tony-o than just a bare .value
yes
ugexe im not sure thats true
tony-o err sorry, i'm thinking of .IO
timotimo probably want .Str
Xliff OK. So no difference, then?
tony-o loads differently than Str
so you want .Str
but you definitely want to make sure it's a Str 22:51
Xliff Isn't "{.value}" already a Str?
And yes, I am sure .value is a Str
ugexe it has an additional lexical scope, that could possible cause an issue to disappear
timotimo m: $_ = "hello"; say "{$_}"
evalable6 hello
timotimo m: $_ = "hello"; say "foo {$_} bar"
evalable6 foo hello bar
ugexe did you try ::($ = ...) ?
Xliff OK. Will try. Doing a full rebuild after a rakudobrew 22:52
timotimo it doesn't get its own $_ at least :)
Xliff ugexe: No. Doing a full rebuild. That's on the lisdt
ugexe ah, the good ol days when `"{foo}"` wasn't thread safe
m: my $w = *; require $w 22:55
evalable6 (exit code 1) No such method 'IO' for invocant of type 'Whatever'
in block <unit> at /tmp/grJq6RXTDq line 1
ugexe i demand this loads a random module 22:56
tony-o lol 22:57
timotimo it should load all modules
all versions of every module, too
tony-o jvms die everywhere 22:58
Kaiepi what's a practical example of using optional parameters that wouldn't be better written using named parameters? 23:18
tony-o if you have a case where the subsequent optionals rely on earlier optionals having them positional rather than named helps 23:20
rely on earlier options being defined, i mean 23:24
guifa take split
ugexe anything that would take *@. e.g. chmod(@files), not chmod(files => @files)
guifa there’s only really one really common option besides the mandatory delimiter — the limit. 23:25
Or another way. If you feel like 2 paremeters will be the *norm*, but things work just fine with the first one, I’d make it an optional positional 23:29
ugexe of course if you are using methods/classes then you might avoid positionals altogether to make inheritance easier 23:30
guifa substr probably falls under that one. substr($start, $length) is how most calls will be made. But substr($start) works fine — just means it gulps up the rest of the string
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ugexe timotimo: use Test:ver(*) only loads one version of test though, not all of hem 23:37
someone should file a bug that :ver(*) isnt loading all versions 23:38
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