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weekly Perl 6 status meetings with phase transitions: Tue 19:00 UTC | IR clogs at irclog.perlgeek.de/phasers/today Set by moderator on 26 August 2011. |
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| pmichaud | my #phasers report: Haven't had properly shaped tuits for p6 hacking; participated in some #perl6 and #parrot discussions, though. I'm expecting things to clear up a bit tonight and/or tomorrow. | 18:22 | |
| masak | my report: blogged some. expect to blog some more in the next few days. I have a macros-in-Rakudo Hague grant application in the works. EOR | 18:24 | |
| Util | Pre-report: | 18:28 | |
| Nothing done, due to $WORK. | |||
| Plan to play with Niecza-9, and give talk on RosettaCode to Atlanta.pm on Thursday. | |||
| EOR | |||
| moritz | what I did: | 18:29 | |
| * aligned names of backtraces classes with latest spec | 18:30 | ||
| * removed 'mu' from backtraces | |||
| * applied memory leak patches by mls++ | |||
| * fixed a bug that prevented List::Utils from compiling (still fails at run time) | |||
| * various small fixes | |||
| * blogged about my progress | 18:31 | ||
| * blogged about why we need NQP (metacircularity) | |||
| Will do: revive nom-exceptions branch | |||
| EOR | |||
| jnthn | report: mostly took a week offline-ish, to visit friends in the UK and try to relax a bit. Next few days will be a bit of a blur with $dayjob, then things settle down and I can get back to more actively working on Perl 6 stuff. EOR | 18:32 | |
| moritz++ | |||
| masak | moritz++ | 18:33 | |
| mberends | moritz++ jnthn++ | 18:34 | |
| masak | (getting karma for slacking off? well, I never!) :P | 18:35 | |
| jnthn | huh, what, wow...I should slack off more :P | ||
| mberends | no! | ||
| jnthn | :) | ||
| masak | mberends: look what you did! :P | ||
| mberends | *facepalm* | ||
| done: | 18:41 | ||
| * added categorize() to nom and nice tests for it to roast | |||
| * added the roast-tested part of sprintf() to niecza | |||
| * rewrote niecza doc/compiler.pod | |||
| plan: | |||
| * more work on niecza sprintf() and its roast tests with diakopter | |||
| * get back to 6model/c (currently on memory management/GC) | |||
| EOR | |||
| masak categorizes mberends as mberends++ | 18:42 | ||
| moritz | mberends++ indeed | 18:46 | |
| colomon | report: did nothing much except use rakudo master & the ABC module to generate sheet music. did verify that ABC module cannot yet run on nom. | 18:50 | |
| plan: complex number issues blog post. possibly try ABC on niecza again. | 18:51 | ||
| EOR | |||
| Util is keen to see that blog post from colomon | 18:58 | ||
| colomon | Util: I'm keen to write it, too, it just seems like there is always something more important for me to be doing each day until I'm too tired to think straight... | 18:59 | |
| Util | I'm right there with you | 19:00 | |
| moritz | \\o | ||
| jnthn | o/ | ||
| moritz | it's time to start | 19:01 | |
| anybody got another report to submit? | |||
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| moritz | seems like a "no" | 19:03 | |
| pmichaud: what's the plan for the August release? | |||
| pmichaud | moritz: it kind of depends on my tuit availability. I could do one tomorrow, if I get tuits tonight (60% chance) | 19:07 | |
| colomon | is that an R* release or nom as new master or ... ? | 19:11 | |
| Util | Do we expect the September release (or rather, the release after the one under discussion) to be Nom or Master-based? | ||
| mberends | certainly nom, there have been almost no commits to master in three months now | 19:12 | |
| pmichaud | we don't plan any more releases based on the current master branch. | 19:17 | |
| Util | ok | ||
| moritz | pmichaud: is there anything I could do to help you prepare the nom release? | ||
| pmichaud | the biggest thing is to decide what blockers we have for a nom release and make sure they're removed to whatever extent we can | 19:20 | |
| I know that regexes are an issue | |||
| I feel like the slow compilation speed is also a big issue... but not sure what to do about that. | |||
| jnthn | I think we mostly block on understanding why it's slow. | 19:22 | |
| pmichaud | right, but is slowness a release blocker? | ||
| or do we release a nom-based compiler even knowing that it's really slow and has memory issues? | 19:23 | ||
| jnthn | For compiler or distro? | ||
| For distro, I'd really like a shot at tracking this down. | |||
| But realistically I won't have tuits until the weekend for that. And the weekend is in September. | |||
| Of course, @other are free to beat me to it. :) | 19:24 | ||
| moritz | well, I think we can forget basing a distro on an August nom release | ||
| pmichaud | well, I think for distro we have to have that fixed. | ||
| I'm asking and only looking at compiler atm. | |||
| moritz | there are just too many things that stop modules from workin on nom | ||
| jnthn | OK. For compiler I'm less bothered. Distro needs higher standards. | ||
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| mberends | the situation is exceptional enough that I think we should drop the "time based release" principle until nom almost catches up to master in our judgement. | 19:29 | |
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| pmichaud | I'll agree to that if there's a consensus agreement on that point... but I'm a little uncomfortable with it myself. | 19:34 | |
| jnthn | If we drop it, it removes a target date to aim towards | 19:35 | |
| moritz | agreed | ||
| pmichaud | well, we've already missed our dates. | ||
| masak | not having time-based releases would feel a bit demoralizing in itself, methinks. | 19:36 | |
| pmichaud | we can still make an August release, but it'll have to be made clear that it's development-only release | ||
| I don't have a problem with that | |||
| moritz | +1 | ||
| masak | +1 | ||
| mberends | +1 :) | 19:37 | |
| pmichaud | okay, that's what will happen. I'll make an August release by tomorrow midnight, with whatever we have by then, and put lots of announcement text in place for it. | 19:39 | |
| I should have a draft announcement in the repo tonight. | |||
| (so that people can review/wordsmith/improve prior to the release) | 19:40 | ||
| moritz | +2 | ||
| pmichaud | within the next 24 hours, I will also do the branch renames. | ||
| thus "nom" will become known as "master", and "master" will be renamed to 'ng" | 19:41 | ||
| ..."ng" | |||
| jnthn | +1 | ||
| pmichaud | I'll likely do that late tonight, when most of you aren't typically hacking on things :) | ||
| moritz doesn't like 'ng' | |||
| mberends really dislikes the name "ng" | |||
| moritz | I'd prefer "beta" | ||
| jnthn | Is "beta" better? :) | ||
| masak | +1 | ||
| mberends | aye | ||
| jnthn | I guess it comes after alpha :) | 19:42 | |
| pmichaud | I don't really want to establish an alpha-beta-gamma-naming sequence | ||
| jnthn | I don't really want to have another such major refactor ;) | ||
| moritz | "aleph" then :-) | ||
| pmichaud | in particular, I don't want the current master to be known as a "beta" release. | ||
| masak | "A" | ||
| jnthn | pmichaud: ah, that's a good point. | ||
| masak | indeed. | ||
| mberends | "nqprx" | ||
| moritz | if we run out of sccripts to chose the first letter from, we know we have to stop rewriting :-) | ||
| jnthn | "centauri" :) | ||
| pmichaud | We can always just refer to it as 2011.07, fwiw. | 19:43 | |
| masak | "alfalfa" | ||
| pmichaud | it doesn't necessarily need a name beyond that. | ||
| moritz | pmichaud: if we never plan to commit anything to it, that's fine | ||
| masak | it's nice to be able to refer to it, though. | ||
| moritz | (that's the difference between tag and branch) | ||
| masak | 2011.07 is... somewhat clinical. | 19:44 | |
| pmichaud | I think that refering to it as 2011.07 is more accurate than anything else. | ||
| mberends | the name should work nicely as directory name as well | ||
| colomon kind of likes alfalfa | |||
| masak | fair enough. | ||
| pmichaud | Instead of saying "are you using the 'beta' release" or "are you using the 'alfalfa' release" we can say "are you using the 2011.07 release?" | ||
| mberends | I currently have alpha, master and nom directories | ||
| masak | colomon: the naming sequence is scary to imagine, though :) | ||
| pmichaud | which is really what we want to be asking and pointing to anyway | ||
| masak | nod | ||
| moritz | masak: you can also refer to it as Beijing if you prefer | 19:45 | |
| pmichaud | Q: "I'm looking for a stable version of rakudo." A: "For now, you want the 2011.07 tag" | ||
| masak | moritz: good point. | ||
| mberends | moritz: +1 | ||
| pmichaud | or yes, Beijing also. | ||
| masak | "alpha", "beijing". wfm. | ||
| pmichaud | I'm fine with a "beijing" branch if we want that. | ||
| although there's already a "Bejing" tag. | |||
| masak | \\o/ | ||
| pmichaud | er, "Beijing" tag. so there might be some confusion there. | ||
| masak | nah :) | 19:46 | |
| pmichaud | anyway, the features matrix purposely refers to that branch as "2011.07" | ||
| and not "master" | |||
| moritz | renaming it in the feature matrix is not a big deal, if need arises | ||
| pmichaud | anyway, given the discussion above, I'm inclined to go ahead and use "ng" as the branch name, and hopefully we'll all refer to it by things like "Beijing" and/or "2011.07" when we need to talk about it. | 19:47 | |
| moritz | or maybe don't use a branch for now, since the head of the branch is identical to the tag right now | 19:48 | |
| masak | +1 | 19:49 | |
| moritz | we can still create a branch when we want a change on top of it | ||
| pmichaud | if we can do that, I'm fine with not creating a branch at all at this point. | ||
| moritz | sure we can | ||
| pmichaud | I was thinking it might be good to have a branch already created for future-proofing | ||
| moritz | oh wait, not identiacl after all | ||
| $ git rev-parse Beijing | |||
| 6d4edbb2ed2da189fbbdfe08e431ba4f60775f00 | |||
| $ git rev-parse master | |||
| 9225003fe4d3b0231f76a46f66e92628d06f4948 | |||
| but 'git log Beijing' and 'git log master' show the same things | 19:50 | ||
| moritz confused | |||
| pmichaud | "Beijing" like refers to a tag commit | ||
| *likely | |||
| there is no 6d4edbb commit in "git log" that I can find. | 19:51 | ||
| moritz | aye | 19:52 | |
| pmichaud | anyway, can I just migrate existing "master" to "ng", as a safety? We don't ever have to refer to it as such; we can use the tags for now. And if we find we do need to refer to it and that "ng" is too bletcherous, we can always rename that branch again to something we like. | ||
| personally, I plan to continue to refer to it as 2011.07, since that's really what it is and where it theoretically ends. | 19:53 | ||
| moritz | ok | ||
| moritz -> sleep | 19:54 | ||
| mberends | ok | 19:59 | |
| tadzik | ooops, late /o\\ | 20:09 | |
| mberends | 166 hours early for the next one ;) | 20:14 | |
| tadzik | oh, okay then :) | 20:15 | |
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