|
weekly Rakudo status meetings with phase transitions: Tue 19:00 UTC | IR clogs at irclog.perlgeek.de/phasers/today Set by moderator on 25 June 2010. |
|||
|
02:35
eternaleye joined
12:56
[particle] joined
16:13
eternaleye joined
17:42
mberends_ joined
18:57
pmurias joined,
colomon joined,
lue joined
18:58
supernovus joined
|
|||
| sorear | hello | 19:00 | |
| colomon | o/ | ||
| mberends_ | \\o | ||
| jnthn | oh hai | 19:01 | |
| PerlJam | greetings | 19:02 | |
| pmichaud | aloha! | ||
| jnthn | Seems we're masak-less and moritz-less. | ||
| colomon | :( | ||
| lue | hello o/ | ||
| supernovus | hi (I'm just a humble observer) | 19:03 | |
| moritz_ is here now | 19:04 | ||
| jnthn | \\o/ | ||
| moritz_ | supernovus: btw I plan to apply your DateTime patch tonight | ||
| supernovus | moritz_: Yay! That will make Kodi happy, he has a huge patch coming up :-) | ||
| moritz_ | so, phasers | 19:05 | |
| jnthn | Aye | ||
| moritz_ | pmichaud: do you want to start? | ||
| pmichaud | skip me for a moment | ||
| moritz_ | ok | ||
| jnthn? | |||
| jnthn | This Week | 19:06 | |
| * ETOOHOT :-/ Had to concentrate on much. | |||
| * Wrote a wrong patch to fix an exceptions problem | |||
| * Ripped out the non-syntactic case of *.foo and it broke nothing \\o/ | |||
| (hard to concentrate...) | |||
| In the next week | 19:07 | ||
| * Half way through fixing .wrap, will commit soon I hope | |||
| * More S12/S14 triage | |||
| * Will file mid-term report on masak++'s GSOC project, which I'm tormentoring, today or tomorrow | |||
| * Will either get pls to work on Windows myself, or work with @other on that | |||
| Future | |||
| * Filed a grant application for what I intend to focus on post-R*. R* is a step along the journey, not a destination, and I'm very keen to hit the ground running. news.perlfoundation.org/2010/07/hag...eta-m.html | |||
| } | |||
| colomon | \\o/ | 19:08 | |
| moritz_ | colomon: want to report something? | ||
| [Coke] | ~~ | 19:09 | |
| colomon | moritz_: was just celebrating post-R* plans, but I do have a small report to make when people are ready. | ||
| pmichaud | (my report is ready) | ||
| moritz_ | then I'd say pmichaud first | 19:10 | |
| colomon | +1 | ||
| pmichaud | * picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8S7i4...directlink #phasers in paradise | ||
| * REPL now remembers lexical declarations | |||
| * Fixed autovivification of arrays and hashes | |||
| * Applied lue++'s binding patches | |||
| * Refactored code startup | |||
| * Eliminated IN_EVAL(), $*IN_EVAL | |||
| * Worked on conversions to use .Stringy | |||
| this week: more paradise, following up on other smallish bugs, writing emails | |||
| writing blog posts | 19:11 | ||
| EOR | |||
| (yes, the photo is where I'm sitting right now :-) | |||
| jnthn | EENVY | ||
| :_) | |||
| moritz_ too | |||
| jnthn | It looks almost too nice. :-D | ||
| moritz_: Anything to report? | 19:12 | ||
| moritz_ | * managed to come up with a weekly challenge today | ||
| * inspired by szabgab++ I'm pondering a Hage Grant application | |||
| (about systemizing and speccing error messages) | 19:13 | ||
| pmichaud | +1 | ||
| moritz_ | * now working on Mu.perl | ||
| * did all those 100 small items I'm always doing... :-) | |||
| * try to get the book up and running. pronik++ and lucs++ are working on hard on a proper layout | 19:14 | ||
| there's a branch (layout-basic) which doesn't build on my machine yet... | |||
| .EOR | |||
| colomon: anything new, except all-day fishing? :-) | 19:15 | ||
| colomon | harmonyware.com/pictures/DSCN4421.JPG | 19:16 | |
| that's last Monday, but pretty typical of that week. :) | |||
| when I wasn't fishing, I was working on the trig test overhaul. | |||
| it now works, but the generate-tests.pl code is pretty ugly. | |||
| moritz_ | (which one is you?) | 19:17 | |
| colomon | moritz_: middle | ||
| moritz_ | thought so | ||
| colomon | (my father-in-law is on the left, my dad on the right.) | ||
| I needed workarounds for the gather / take bug and .eval bug. | |||
| though I guess I should rewrite the latter in terms of eval() | |||
| I may check it all in anyway, as the generated tests are fairly nice at the moment. | 19:18 | ||
| moritz_ | (wfm if it's only the generating script that's ugly, not the tests themselves) | ||
| colomon | I think the tests are reasonably okay, and if not, feedback is always good anyway. | ||
| at any rate, I think this eliminates something like 10,000 tests from the test suite, while testing a bunch of cases that were missed previously. | 19:19 | ||
| I found two new trig bugs in the process. | |||
| moritz_ | \\o/ | ||
| jnthn | colomon++ | 19:20 | |
| Nice | |||
| colomon | I also starting working on implementing the latest hyper spec changes, but I'm hitting ENOTCLEVERENOUGH at the moment. | ||
| jnthn is looking forward to the faster test runs already | |||
| colomon | or possibly ESPECISTOOMAGICAL | ||
| jnthn | The latter is entirely possible. | ||
| colomon | basic issue is how do you handle 1 ... * <<op>> 1 ... 10 ? | 19:21 | |
| when either side might be infinite? | 19:22 | ||
| I'm planning on writing a blog post about it. | |||
| pmichaud | colomon: note that TimToady and I speculate there's something beneath .elems | ||
| i.e., there's a lazy form of .elems | |||
| colomon | pmichaud: that might help, I suppose. | 19:23 | |
| My current experimental implementation doesn't use .elems at all, but then it doesn't know what side should be dwimmy there. | |||
| moritz_ | uhm... potentially both? | 19:24 | |
| pmichaud | but even without .elems, you should be able to work with the two lists and then figure out which is the dwimmy side when one list is exhausted. | ||
| moritz_ | when one side is exhausted, you go back to the start | ||
| pmichaud | exactly. | ||
| moritz_ | if both are exhausted, you stop | ||
| colomon | but that means 1 ... * <<op>> 1 ... 10 is infinite. | ||
| moritz_ | when none is exhausted, you keep going happily and possibly infinite | ||
| colomon: yes. | |||
| isn't that what the spec implies? | 19:25 | ||
| or does it expect some kind of magic for one-sided infinite lists? | |||
| pmichaud | moritz_: not if hyper is eager | ||
| moritz_ | uh. There's that. | ||
| colomon | it expects some kind of magic for one-sided infinite lists. | ||
| but maybe not that particular magic | |||
| pmichaud | for ranges, it's possible to check for infinite lists | ||
| moritz_ | I guess the non-infinite version would be 1 ... * «op« 1...10, no? | 19:26 | |
| pmichaud | for series it may also be possible -- just haven't done it yet. | ||
| moritz_ should actually read the spec some time | |||
| pmichaud | colomon: I suggest writing the case that makes sense for non-infinite lists and then we'll figure out how to block the infinities a bit later on | 19:27 | |
| I suspect that infinite-ness is a transitive property on lists | |||
| colomon | pmichaud: okay | ||
| anyway, EOR | |||
| pmichaud | rakudo has some support for it already (with range iterators), but we can come up with better | ||
| jnthn | Anything more? | 19:31 | |
| lue | [ ENOREPORT, caused by ENOTHINGINTERESTING :) ] | ||
| moritz_ | lue++ implemented binding. YAY! | 19:32 | |
| mberends_ | aye | ||
| moritz_ | did anybody twitter it? | ||
| mberends_: anything new from the database front? | |||
| lue | Hopefully, as I continue my project, I keep on breaking rakudo and implementing stuff I (want|need)! :) | ||
| mberends_ | MiniDBD::Pg is passing 75% of current tests, thanks to cxreg++ | 19:33 | |
| it's already usable for R* | |||
| pmichaud | tweated. | 19:34 | |
| tweeted. | |||
| (lue's := patch) | |||
| mberends_ | on another topic, is binary file I/O going according to plan? | ||
| sorear is doing interesting but not for R* | |||
| jnthn | mberends_: I know masak++ has some basic stuff working | ||
| mberends_: Sadly he's not here right now with da details. | |||
| mberends_ | I tried an open($name, :bin); that worked but the read($n) didn't :( | 19:35 | |
| (working on favicon.ico files in HTTP::Daemon) | 19:36 | ||
| jnthn | ah :-( | 19:37 | |
| ask masak ;-) | |||
| mberends_ | ok | ||
| oh yes, a local HTTP::Server::Simple is working, the biggest step towards HTTP::Server::Simple::PSGI, which is the foundation of Dancer. | |||
| jnthn | Also nice :-) | 19:38 | |
| lue | I also plan on documenting all the stuff in the src/ folder of Rakudo. Let's see if I actually get to it :) | 19:39 | |
| mberends_ | lue: every little helps :) | 19:40 | |
| PerlJam | lue: I always make plans, but life has a way of making you choose different plans from the ones you wanted. | 19:41 | |
| lue takes Life hostage and demands he stop messing up my plans | 19:42 | ||
| PerlJam | lue: life isn't a man silly; life is *female* and thus the cause random plan changes :) | 19:47 | |
| Tene | Yay sexism! | 19:50 | |
| moritz_ | general question: the ROADMAP says TODO: basic Buf and binary IO (or so) | ||
| can we move that to DONE? | |||
| mberends_ | only if appropriate tests are being passed | 19:52 | |
| moritz_ | fair point | ||
| jnthn | moritz_: Let's get masak's opinion on that. | ||
| moritz_: I think we must be close. | |||
| moritz_: At least on Buf | |||
| PerlJam | given the proximity to release, are there any items denoted with a 1 or a 2 that we know we *won't* have? | 19:54 | |
| (on the ROADMAP) | |||
| moritz_ | 1 ** improved error messages and failure modes (B, all) | 19:55 | |
| we've done a lot to improve those | |||
| though some parsing error messages are still very bad | |||
| it's a very unspecific item - when have we reached it? | |||
| jnthn | Yeah, I've already commented on that one's difficult to know if we're there. | ||
| We're a *lot* better than we used to be. | |||
| moritz_ | 1 *** get the Advent examples running again (all) | ||
| we have tests for those | |||
| jnthn | Yes | 19:56 | |
| Need to check which we don't pass yet. | |||
| PerlJam | What are our attention grabbing examples? (these should be highlighted in the release announcement I think) | ||
| jnthn | The only day we don't run in spectest.data is day21 | ||
| pmichaud | drafting release announcement is high on my to-do list. | ||
| I'll do it in the next ~24h | 19:57 | ||
| moritz_ | btw I've added a very crude skeleton announcement to the star/ repo | ||
| pmichaud | moritz_++ | ||
| Tene | Sure, the only one we don't run is mine. :P | ||
| jnthn | heredocs, temp variables and BigNum are likely misses. | ||
| moritz_ | attention-grabbing examples: maybe we could link to (or include) my phyiscal modelling blog post | 19:58 | |
| it's nice because it has visual output | |||
| PerlJam | moritz_++ I liked that one :) | ||
| jnthn | pmichaud: | ||
| 3 *** array/hash element vivification via WHENCE (pmichaud, jnthn) | |||
| pmichaud: Isn't that done now? | 19:59 | ||
| pmichaud | I thought I already moved it. | ||
| looking. | |||
| jnthn does a git pull just in case | |||
| moritz_ | only thing that's left is things like sub form, and :U methods | ||
| my %h; %h<a>.push: 5 | |||
| pmichaud | oh, that one. | ||
| we still don't have a true WHENCE | |||
| jnthn | Oh | ||
| OK | |||
| I thought you'd done them with WHENCE | |||
| pmichaud | we have a cheating .butWHENCE :-) | ||
| getting WHENCE to work is going to require some syntactic changes that weren't horribly important for R* | 20:00 | ||
| and there are some other places that we do have "WHENCE" that need to be considered. | |||
| so I went with "works for now and cleanups later" since I'm on a bit of a time budget. | |||
| moritz_ | commit 2b2f69c0997a5536a83bd1b33cd649773ae6dcdc | ||
| Author: pmichaud <pmichaud@pobox.com> | |||
| Date: Tue Jul 6 14:08:56 2010 -0500 | |||
| Update ROADMAP with completed closures/autoviv items. | |||
| pmichaud | right, I updated | ||
| - array/hash vivification (done) | 20:01 | ||
| jnthn | OK, got it. | ||
| pmichaud | it does work using something very WHENCE-like, just not the real WHENCE. :-) | ||
| if someone thinks that %h<a>.push autoviv is really important, add it to the ROADMAP :-) | 20:02 | ||
| or give it a ticket | |||
| or both | |||
| :-) | |||
| jnthn | 1 ** operator overloading -- infix:, prefix:, postfix: (almost there, problems with pre-comp) | ||
| pmichaud | I can add it w/o too much trouble. | ||
| jnthn | ^ I intend to re-visit that one this week. | ||
| moritz_ | pmichaud: I'll open a ticket | ||
| jnthn | And sort it out | ||
| I need to fix BEGIN to use the phasers impl first. | |||
| lue | you can't define circumfix operators, though | ||
| moritz_ | that's OK-ish, IMHO | ||
| jnthn | lue: Patches welcome. ;-) | ||
| pmichaud | jnthn: +1 to having add_phaser automatically !fire_phasers if the bank is 'BEGIN' | 20:03 | |
| (I'd been holding off on this to think about it more... I've since thought about it more and I'm happy with that outcome for now) | |||
| then BEGIN phasers are just another instance of adding a phaser. | |||
| jnthn | pmichaud: OK | ||
| pmichaud: Need to check if the current phasers implementation keeps return values from the phasers around to | 20:04 | ||
| *too | |||
| pmichaud | it doesn't, but that's very doable. | ||
| (and also +1) | |||
| just have it store the value in the hash that keeps track of which phasers have been fired. | |||
| jnthn | *nod* | ||
| Yeah, it's mostly a SMOP that I need to get around to. | |||
| pmichaud | and provide an api to get to those values, if needed. | ||
| jnthn | lue: I always may accidentally implement circumfix and postcircumfix though. ;) | 20:05 | |
| (custom ones) | |||
| :-) | |||
| pmichaud: Yes, probably needs that too. | |||
| On | 20:06 | ||
| moritz_ | (filed ticket for autoviv of invocant) | ||
| jnthn | 1 ** improved error messages and failure modes (B, all) | ||
| lue | It'd be fun to program implicit multiplication :) | ||
| moritz_ | lue: no. It will ruin good error message if we ever get them :-) | ||
| jnthn | I suggest that in the next week, if anyone finds a failure they feel is bad enough that we really really should fix it, then annotate the roadmap entry with a ticket number. | 20:07 | |
| (That is, pre-R*) | |||
| Otherwise, next week, we mark that as done. | |||
| moritz_ | +1 | ||
| pmichaud | main error message / failure mode I think needs fixing is "Unable to parse blockoid" | ||
| lue | .oO(So, it might will destroy error messages...) |
||
| pmichaud | (and yes, I plan to fix that, time permitting) | 20:08 | |
| sorear has started playing the improving parse error messages game, it's fun | 20:09 | ||
| pmichaud | agreed. | ||
| lue | .oO(where are all my DON'T PANIC stickers?) |
20:10 | |
| jnthn | There's one runtime error ticket that implies beer to the fixer. | ||
| Sadly I didn't work out an easy way to improve it yet. :-) | |||
| lue | someone's offering you /dev/drink.h ? | ||
| jnthn | Gah, I can't find the ticket now! | 20:11 | |
| Maybe I dreamed it. | |||
| lue | rakudo: jnthn.dreams.say | 20:13 | |
| jnthn | BEER BEER UKRAINE BEER | ||
| ...is it normal to dream in uppercase? | 20:14 | ||
| pmichaud | jnthn: NO | ||
| jnthn | :P | ||
| lue | .oO(EnOtCaMeLcAsE) |
||
| pmichaud | afk for a while # beach time | 20:15 | |
| PerlJam | If you're dreaming about COBOL or VMS it is | ||
| jnthn | pmichaud: enjoy | ||
| moritz_ | it seems our #phaser meeting slowly phases out | ||
| jnthn | <rimshot> | ||
| Let's get shot of it. | |||
| lue | you know the topic for #phasers says 'IR clogs at ...', right? | ||
| lue wants a pair! | 20:16 | ||
| moritz_ | guess who set the topic :-) | ||
| jnthn | lue: It seemed like a bright idea at the time... ;-) | ||
| moritz_ | lue: it gives you an URL | ||
| jnthn: s/bright/cute/ please :-) | |||
| PerlJam | oh, so *that* pun was too much? | ||
| jnthn | moritz_: I'm sure infrared is bright to those who can see it. ;-) | ||
| lue | ...but you couldn't find the shoes after painting them, right? | ||
| jnthn reaches for the gavel | 20:17 | ||
| lue | I need to go to an eye doctor and demand that my DNA be changed so I start producing cones to see IR/UV | 20:18 | |
| (I'll have to avoid the kitchen at the 'I can see microwaves' stage though...) | 20:19 | ||
| Tene | lue: the human retina can see farther into UV than the human lens allows through. So if you get your lenses replaced, you'll be able to see a bit more UV than unmodified humans. | 20:21 | |
| lue | "Why yes sir, I want you to remove my lenses. And replace them with Plexiglas or something." | 20:22 | |
| Tene | lue: There are various medical conditions that can require lens replacement. | 20:23 | |
| moritz_ | and most artifical replacements aren't very transparent to UV | ||
| Tene | en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intraocular_lens | ||
| moritz_ | normal glass isn't - which is why you don't get a sun burn behind a window | ||
| lue | moritz_: well, that's only because their typical goal is to give you what you would normally have, not what is genetically inevitable! | 20:24 | |
| [there's got to be one person in the world who sees UV...] | 20:25 | ||
|
20:34
eternaleye joined
21:20
supernovus joined
21:30
ascent_ joined
21:31
masak joined
|
|||
| masak | missed #phasers, here's a post-report: | 21:33 | |
| jnthn | post it! | 21:34 | |
| masak | implemented binary IO read/write methods. | ||
| (see use.perl.org/~masak/journal/40440 ) | |||
| they "work", but they emit the wrong stoff somewhere along the line. | |||
| I'd like to pair up with someone (likely jnthn) too try to brain out what's wrong right now. | 21:35 | ||
| it's something with encodings. | |||
| .eor | |||
| oh, and I haven't submitted my midterm report yet, but I will within 24h. | 21:36 | ||
| re the ROADMAP item; yeah, we're there with Buf and almost there with file I/O. | 21:52 | ||
|
22:33
masak left
|
|||
