[01:46] <[Coke]> I think you can add moarvm as another remote and push your ugexe branch to that upstream.

[01:47] <[Coke]> I managed to do it on rakudo once then failed when I tried it the next time.

[01:50] <ugexe> i dont have permissions 

[01:51] <ugexe> git push origin ugexe/upstream-luajit-dynasm

[01:51] <ugexe> ERROR: Permission to MoarVM/MoarVM.git denied to ugexe.

[01:51] <ugexe> fatal: Could not read from remote repository.

[02:00] <[Coke]> try again

[02:18] <ugexe> hmm, still seeing the same message 

[02:19] <Geth> ¦ Blin: japhb++ created pull request #57: Add an overview-watcher util script

[02:19] <Geth> ¦ Blin: review: https://github.com/Raku/Blin/pull/57

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[02:31] <[Coke]> hurm. gave you write privs...

[02:37] <ugexe> oh i had to accept an invite on github.com 

[02:42] <Geth> ¦ nqp/ugexe/upstream-luajit-dynasm: 33906453c9 | (Nick Logan)++ | tools/templates/MOAR_REVISION

[02:42] <Geth> ¦ nqp/ugexe/upstream-luajit-dynasm: Bump MoarVM to switch DynASM to upstream LuaJIT

[02:42] <Geth> ¦ nqp/ugexe/upstream-luajit-dynasm: review: https://github.com/Raku/nqp/commit/33906453c9

[02:43] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/upstream-luajit-dynasm: 168a2eb0e1 | (Nick Logan)++ | tools/templates/NQP_REVISION

[02:43] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/upstream-luajit-dynasm: Bump NQP to switch DynASM to upstream LuaJIT

[02:43] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/upstream-luajit-dynasm: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/168a2eb0e1

[02:47] *** rnddim is now known as ShimmerFairy

[02:53] <[Coke]> want a blin run on 168a2eb0e1 ?

[02:53] <[Coke]> c: 168a2eb0e1 e

[02:53] <committable6> [Coke], ¦168a2eb: «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “b121e53”?)»

[02:57] <ugexe> yeah

[03:03] <[Coke]> c: 168a2eb0e1 e

[03:03] <committable6> [Coke], ¦168a2eb: «»

[03:04] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: 0493413c69 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | util/overview-watcher.raku

[03:04] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: Add an overview-watcher util script

[03:04] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/Blin/commit/0493413c69

[03:04] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: 6fcc9ec5e2 | (Will Coleda)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | util/overview-watcher.raku

[03:04] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: Merge pull request #57 from japhb/japhb/overview-watcher

[03:04] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: 

[03:04] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: Add an overview-watcher util script

[03:04] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/Blin/commit/6fcc9ec5e2

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[03:44] <ShimmerFairy> [Coke]: I have pull requests open on all the projects (MoarVM/NQP/Rakudo/roast) for my changes. Alternatively, the branches all have the same name "unicode-18.0", and have all been pushed upstream except rakudo, where I don't have push perms (that branch is on my fork of rakudo instead).

[04:02] <japhb> ShimmerFairy: I approved the MoarVM one (lizmat had requested I review it)

[04:06] <ShimmerFairy> Oh that's good! For the record, I think merging all the PRs at the same time (or as close together as possible) would be preferable, to avoid any noise coming from expectation mismatches (e.g. running Unicode 17 spectests on Unicode 18 moarvm).

[04:06] <japhb> Agreed

[04:07] <japhb> In fact, I'd recommend saying "Everyone please hold off merges until I finish these" first.  :-)

[04:11] <ShimmerFairy> At least for my part all the upgrade work is up and in PRs already. Whatever other improvements to Unicode support I want to make aren't upgrade related, and can happen later whenever.

[04:13] <ShimmerFairy> I will say though that I wish github had some kind of notion of "cross-repo PRs" for neatly organizing these kinds of changes. (though maybe the fact that you'd want such a thing is a clue that Unicode support isn't abstracted all that well currently...)

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[08:45] <bazzrrr0> Does anyone know whether El_Che intends to add a sister service providing pre-built rakupp binaries, to go alongside the current very useful rakudo-pkg service?

[09:09] <bazzrrr0> Will repost on #raku channel as it might be the better place for this topic

[09:09] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: 961f3cc315 | Faye++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | t/nqp/106-unicodenames.t

[09:09] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: Add tests for Jurchen and Small Seal scripts. (#879)

[09:09] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: 

[09:09] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: These tests ensure their Unicode names are properly generated by the

[09:09] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: backend.

[09:10] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/nqp/commit/961f3cc315

[09:12] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: 68075a0ccd | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | tools/templates/MOAR_REVISION

[09:12] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: Bump MoarVM for Unicode 18.0, Shimmerfairy++

[09:12] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/nqp/commit/68075a0ccd

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 21607b372f | Faye++ | 7 files

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Update for Unicode 18.0

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: All the usual steps for updating to a new version of Unicode, though

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: with the added step of handling some new algorithmic Unicode character

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: names. Also needed to bump up the number of expected failures in the

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: General Category tests, the current failures only affect unassigned

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: codepoints.

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/21607b372f

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: e1058f0baa | Faye++ | t/09-moar/UnipropCheck.rakumod

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Update general category test for zero expected failures.

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Changes in MoarVM have made it so that every codepoint's general

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: category is now correctly returned when queried, so the number of

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: expected failures in now zero.

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e1058f0baa

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 11ce8045c0 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 7 files

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Merge pull request #6792 from ShimmerFairy/unicode-18.0

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Update for Unicode 18.0

[09:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/11ce8045c0

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[10:20] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-58: 2c4a28c02b | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | tools/templates/NQP_REVISION

[10:20] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-58: Bump NQP for Unicode 18.0, Shimmerfairy++

[10:20] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-58: 

[10:20] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-58: Alas, two Rakudo test-files are now failing, and three roast

[10:20] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-58: test-files, all related to grapheme breaks, so assume the tests

[10:20] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-58: will need to be fixed

[10:20] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-58: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2c4a28c02b

[10:22] <lizmat> argh

[10:22] <lizmat> in the wrong branch  :-(

[10:28] <ShimmerFairy> lizmat: I've got a roast PR as well, if you missed it. https://github.com/Raku/roast/pull/923

[10:37] <lizmat> make test clean now, *phew*

[10:38] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 9f2f8a37d1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | tools/templates/NQP_REVISION

[10:38] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Bump NQP for Unicode 18.0, Shimmerfairy++

[10:38] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9f2f8a37d1

[10:38] <Geth> ¦ roast/master: 4 commits pushed by Faye++, (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++

[10:38] <Geth> ¦ roast/master: 3b29e673c4 | Update generated tests for Unicode 18.0.0

[10:38] <Geth> ¦ roast/master: 23450635d3 | Add tests for UTF-C8 synthetics in grapheme construction.

[10:38] <Geth> ¦ roast/master: d67e6fdee7 | Update collation tests for bugfixes.

[10:38] <Geth> ¦ roast/master: d5cb60531f | Merge pull request #923 from Raku/unicode-18.0

[10:38] <Geth> ¦ roast/master: review: https://github.com/Raku/roast/compare/1f749e338c8a...d5cb60531f8a

[10:41] <lizmat> spectest clean also, ShimmerFairy++

[10:42] <ShimmerFairy> Glad to hear it wasn't a fluke of my machine :)  And lizmat++ for doing the merging-in of everything.

[10:46] <lizmat> c: HEAD dd Unicode.version

[10:46] <committable6> lizmat, ¦HEAD(11ce804): «v17.0␤»

[10:46] <lizmat> meh..not up to date yet  :-)

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: d898bc6d3c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | src/Raku/ast/resolver.rakumod

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: RakuAST: streamline ::Resolver.(EVAL|Compile).resolve-lexical (#6805)

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: - rewrite so no return statements are needed anymore

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: - tighten up scope walkers

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d898bc6d3c

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 5ffa907559 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 17 files

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: RakuAST: make .resolution.compile-time-value DRYer (#6804)

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: This particular chained method call occurred a *lot*, so it feels

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: like a good idea to make this DRYer.

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: This adds a ::Lookup.resolved-value method, and uses that method

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: instead of any .resolution.compile-time-value call.  Should improve

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: readability and overall bytecode size.

[11:00] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5ffa907559

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[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: bd58f3a54c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 27 files

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: Untodo test passing in 2026.09

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: 

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: Because RakuAST has been made the default, which fixes a lot of

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: issues.  Also closed any associated issues that were still open.

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: 

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: This makes the result of a spectest a *lot* cleaner!

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/Raku/roast/commit/bd58f3a54c

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: fbedc39103 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | spectest.data

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: Mark S29-os/system.t as slow

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: 

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: So it gets started earlier and doesn't affect wallclock time as

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: much at the end

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/Raku/roast/commit/fbedc39103

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: 9143ef83ad | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-io/out-buffering.t

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: Untodo test that now appears to be ok on MacOS

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: 

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: Not sure if this was RakuAST related, or MacOS update related.

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: So put it in a separate commit.

[12:14] <Geth> ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/Raku/roast/commit/9143ef83ad

[12:16] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 11 commits pushed by (Nick Logan)++, (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++

[12:16] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/5ffa90755998...e2613ee61882

[12:18] <[Coke]> ARGH

[12:18] <lizmat> ARGH?

[12:18] <[Coke]> Yes, all the unicode 18 stuff got merged when I was asleep?

[12:18] <[Coke]> through all 4 repos?

[12:18] <lizmat> eh, yeah.... and all clean

[12:19] <lizmat> did I miss something yesterday ?

[12:20] <[Coke]> For future reference, we can have branches all the way through and then test the rakudo branch that includes the changes, which I had asked about before went offline in here (which is why I was surprised to see it all merged this morning)

[12:21] <lizmat> ah, I took japhb's approval as an ok to merge away

[12:22] <[Coke]> crap, I just accidentally overrwrote my blin runner that was distinct from the checked in version. shit.

[12:24] <[Coke]> (I think it was only a cosmetic change, thankfully)

[12:24] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 04a96091f8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 2 files

[12:24] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Untodo now passing tests

[12:24] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/04a96091f8

[12:25] <[Coke]> I think japhb's approval was based directly on your ask for a review, not my comment at all.

[12:26] <lizmat> ah, yes   :-(

[12:26] <[Coke]> ugexe: finishing the redo-run on your branch - only 3 potential failures.

[12:26] <[Coke]> (not counting Injector. :)

[12:30] <[Coke]> ugexe: clean on redo. You're all good

[12:31] <[Coke]> c: 04a96091f8 e

[12:31] <committable6> [Coke], ¦04a9609: «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “e1a86f1”?)»

[12:31] <[Coke]> c: e2613ee618 e

[12:31] <committable6> [Coke], ¦e2613ee: «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “78ffee6”?)»

[12:32] <[Coke]> (will kick off the next blin run when HEAD is built)

[12:34] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: 0fa43704ca | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | tools/templates/MOAR_REVISION

[12:34] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: Bump MoarVM for line number annotation fix

[12:34] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: 

[12:34] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: Marco Ladermann++

[12:34] <Geth> ¦ nqp/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/nqp/commit/0fa43704ca

[12:35] <lizmat> [Coke]: want me to hold off the NQP bump ?

[12:45] <[Coke]> for what?

[12:45] <[Coke]> oh, of that in rakudo. No, doesn't matter.

[12:46] <lizmat> ok

[12:47] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 7893514afd | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | t/12-rakuast/xx-fixed-in-rakuast.rakutest

[12:47] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Todo a test again, apparently it flaps?

[12:47] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7893514afd

[12:47] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 11ac8beafc | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | tools/templates/NQP_REVISION

[12:47] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Bump NQP for line number annotation fix

[12:47] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 

[12:47] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Marco Ladermann++

[12:47] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/11ac8beafc

[12:49] <Geth> ¦ roast: f8eeb40157 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | spectest.data

[12:49] <Geth> ¦ roast: Mark sprintf tests as slow

[12:49] <Geth> ¦ roast: 

[12:49] <Geth> ¦ roast: So that they're started early so that spectest takes less wallclock

[12:49] <Geth> ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/Raku/roast/commit/f8eeb40157

[13:12] <[Coke]> want the buildable bot to let me know, when a build finishes, if that means HEAD in rakudo is now built

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[13:18] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: 1fab2c33a1 | (Will Coleda)++ | util/overview-watcher.raku

[13:18] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: Replace LTA failure if file doesn't exist

[13:18] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/Blin/commit/1fab2c33a1

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[14:01] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: ugexe++ created pull request #6807: Implement shaped array views and jagged array shapes

[14:01] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/6807

[14:06] <ugexe> maybe we should just disable pushing to main?

[14:08] <ugexe> like the nqp bumps and stuff should have been done, and then the PR for the unicode stuff rebase and ran through CI to pass it

[14:08] <ugexe> and similarly the todo test commit which was apparently wrong

[14:09] <ugexe> its ok for those things to take an extra hour or two really

[14:25] <ugexe> and now i have conflicts on 3 of my local branches because we added a helper method. and what im seeing im not a fan of either... there is code that does e.g. return Nil unless nqp::can($prefix.resolution, 'compile-time-value'); to guard the call to that method, but now we just call a different method instead witht he same guard. that is not easier to understand

[14:26] <ugexe> we really really really need to think about these types of changes. if some change is easy assume you overlooked something

[14:32] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: ugexe++ created pull request #6808: RakuAST: declare a package's body where it is evaluated and its header with its body

[14:32] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/6808

[14:33] <[Coke]> starting another blin through 11ac8beafc 

[14:33] <linkable6> (2026-10-07) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/11ac8beafc Bump NQP for line number annotation fix

[14:35] <[Coke]> From a release management standpoint, I'd be very happy with a protected main

[14:36] <[Coke]> We had floated it probably years back but didn't get traction.

[14:37] <[Coke]> for CI/CD makes a lot of sense, for coordination it makes sense. We won't do a blin run on every PR, but being able to do a blin run on *some* PRs is also very handy.

[14:38] <[Coke]> (more so when we get blin testing all of the ecosystem, not just most - then we can do an "essential module" run for a branch, which is relatively quick.

[14:39] <lizmat> fwiw, I waited almost 24 hours for the merge of my PRs

[14:40] <ugexe> you can review your own PRs too 

[14:40] <ugexe> seeing the PR on github vs locally often helps you to see things you might have missed

[14:40] <lizmat> with regards to the helper method: the "nqp::can($prefix.resolution" was untouched

[14:41] <lizmat> it only changed .resolution.compile-time-value

[14:41] <lizmat> so, all the cases where there was *no* guard

[14:41] <ugexe> my point wasnt that that method was touched. its that there was a guard that was connected to the original method. now the original method has been renamed and now the guard has no visual connection to that call

[14:42] <lizmat> the original method was *not* renamed

[14:42] <ugexe> well its not called under that guard, whatever

[14:42] <ugexe> previously it was obvious why that guard was there

[14:42] <ugexe> now its not

[14:42] <ugexe> and that was just from me quickly glancing at the pr

[14:43] <ugexe> a search and replace is rarely sufficient for sufficiently complicated code

[14:44] <ugexe> because it has no way to make use of the surrounding lines context

[14:44] <lizmat> fwiw, I vetted each and every change in that PR

[14:45] <lizmat> and this is the method that was added:

[14:45] <lizmat> +    method resolved-value() { self.resolution.compile-time-value }

[14:45] <ugexe>         return Nil unless nqp::can($prefix.resolution, 'compile-time-value');

[14:45] <ugexe>         my $routine := $prefix.resolved-value;

[14:45] <ugexe> this is what i mean

[14:45] <ugexe> you cant read those two lines and know they are connected at all unless you've also memorized the implementation of resolved-value()

[14:46] <ugexe> before it was obvious

[14:48] <ugexe>         my $module := self.resolved-value;

[14:48] <ugexe>         my $CompUnitHandle := self.IMPL-UNWRAP-LIST(self.get-implicit-lookups())[0].compile-time-value;

[14:49] <ugexe> similar for that. originally they were both .compile-time-value calls which made their connection clearer

[14:51] <lizmat> OOC, is it common that it doesn't have a 'compile-time-value' method?   or is that rare ?

[14:53] <ugexe> not sure, i'd have to spend some time looking. i don't think it matters if its rare though

[14:57] <ugexe> the name resolved-value also suggests it works for anything that resolved. but it doesn't. it dies on an unresolved lookup, and on one that resolved to something without a compile-time value (such as an operator bound to a my &infix:<…> variable)

[15:02] <lizmat> re "seeing the PR on github vs locally often helps you to see things you might have missed"

[15:02] <lizmat> I always look at the git diff before committing

[15:05] <ugexe> so you don't see anything confusing about the examples i posted, or you just overlooked those?

[15:10] <lizmat> I didn't look at the context with that in the back of my mind

[15:11] <ugexe> the context of the surrounding code is always important

[15:11] <lizmat> as an alternative I have a branch for simplification of ::ApplyPrefix.IMPL-RECORD-NATIVE-RETURN-TYPE

[15:12] <lizmat> but sadly it looks like Github is 500ing on me

[15:13] <lizmat> looks like creating a gist is also 500

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: 81ae3f8048 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/Raku/ast/expressions.rakumod

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: RakuAST: simplify ::ApplyPrefix.IMPL-RECORD-NATIVE-RETURN-TYPE

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: 

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: Since it didn't matter why the $routine value could not produce

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: a concrete value, wrap all of the checks in a single try.

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: 

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: Also use a proper if structure for:

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: 1. readability

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: 2. no need for return statements

[15:18] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/81ae3f8048

[15:19] <lizmat> ugexe: is that better readable ?

[15:20] <ugexe> are you sure about "Since it didn't matter why the $routine value could not produce"?

[15:20] <ugexe> without actually looking i would assume slapping a try in front of such a statement is going to cover up errors we'd want to expose themselves

[15:20] <lizmat> there was no diagnostic given, just return Nil, which it also returns when all is ok

[15:21] <lizmat> yes, It does hide any other possible reasons why it would fail

[15:21] <ugexe> so it does matter then

[15:21] <lizmat> it matters as much as with any other try in the code

[15:22] <ugexe> i would have to check to confirm that. i wouldn't use that as a basis for using more try

[15:22] <lizmat> understood, but all of the reasons for possible failure where just silently ignored, just as a try would

[15:23] <lizmat> understood, but all of the reasons for possible failure where just silently ignored, just as a try would

[15:23] <lizmat> and there are about 30 of them in the RakuAST bootstrap

[15:24] <lizmat> also in the case of: my $module := self.resolved-value;

[15:24] <lizmat>  my $CompUnitHandle := self.IMPL-UNWRAP-LIST(self.get-implicit-lookups())[0].compile-time-value;

[15:25] <lizmat> the two statements only interact with each other later: my $handle := $CompUnitHandle.from-unit($module.WHO);

[15:25] <lizmat> so why would it matter how they got their values ?

[15:28] <ugexe> because humans text?

[15:28] <ugexe> read text

[15:29] <lizmat> the way I look at these statements is that they obtain a value from somewhere, and use that to create another value

[15:29] <lizmat> at that stage, It shouldn't matter to the reader how these values were created

[15:31] <lizmat> that's why we have subs and methods

[15:32] <ugexe> it matters that the reader can intuit things via context

[15:32] <ugexe> im telling you that for me personally those changes make it *harder* for me to understand

[15:34] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 5136581fd1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 17 files

[15:34] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: Revert "RakuAST: make .resolution.compile-time-value DRYer (#6804)"

[15:34] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: 

[15:34] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: This reverts commit 5ffa907559987787efd2de97883296270189a9bc.

[15:34] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/main: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5136581fd1

[15:35] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: lizmat++ created pull request #6809: RakuAST: simplify ::ApplyPrefix.IMPL-RECORD-NATIVE-RETURN-TYPE

[15:35] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/6809

[15:36] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: 5136581fd1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 17 files

[15:36] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: Revert "RakuAST: make .resolution.compile-time-value DRYer (#6804)"

[15:36] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: 

[15:36] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: This reverts commit 5ffa907559987787efd2de97883296270189a9bc.

[15:36] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5136581fd1

[15:36] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: ecdde5fc3d | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 17 files

[15:36] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: Merge branch 'main' into lizmat-59

[15:36] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/lizmat-59: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ecdde5fc3d

[16:11] *** hurufu left
[16:21] <ugexe> so main CI looks like its broke

[16:22] <ugexe> https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commits/main/

[16:28] <ugexe> yeah we can't just untodo tests that legacy fails until we remove the legacy frontend

[16:29] <ugexe> so roast needs to revert whatever commit did that

[16:29] <ugexe> then all the current PRs need to rerun so they can pass their roast test again

[16:30] <ugexe> if the roast commit was instead made as a PR we could revert it from the web ui

[16:32] <ab5tract> m: say (1000 + 1) =:= (1002 - 1)

[16:32] <camelia> rakudo-moar e17a1d43b: OUTPUT: «False␤»

[16:33] <ab5tract> is this spec'd behavior or a quirk of whats-currently-implemented

[16:35] <ugexe> they each box to a different Int object

[16:37] <ugexe> oh lord

[16:37] <ugexe> m: say (1+1) =:= (3-1)

[16:37] <camelia> rakudo-moar e17a1d43b: OUTPUT: «True␤»

[16:38] <ab5tract> oof

[16:38] <ugexe> because moarvm caches 1 - 14

[16:39] <ugexe> -1 - 14 rather

[16:41] <ugexe> i'm gonna benchmark to see what kind of regression removing that cache would actually result in. if we're lucky maybe it isn't as relevant anymore

[16:42] <ab5tract> nice idea. consistency is great if the cost is not too high

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: 0771cb5705 | (Will Coleda)++ | util/overview-watcher.raku

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: Also show percentage complete in watcher

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/Blin/commit/0771cb5705

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: b305cd5a37 | (Will Coleda)++ | util/overview-watcher.raku

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: Avoid warnings about math on Anys.

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: 

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: Note that these warnings only showed up in a singular terminal config.

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: 

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: japhb++ for the fix.

[16:51] <Geth> ¦ Blin/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/Blin/commit/b305cd5a37

[17:01] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: 8288e9dd7c | (Nick Logan)++ | 19 files

[17:01] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: Restore todos for tests that still fail on the legacy frontend

[17:01] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: 

[17:01] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: Previously bd58f3a54 removed the todo markers of tests that pass now

[17:01] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: that RakuAST is the default. However many of those tests still fail

[17:01] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: with RAKUDO_RAKUAST=0, which broke the legacy spectest job in rakudo's

[17:01] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: CI. This restores the todo markers in the files where the legacy

[17:01] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: frontend still fails. The files where the tests pass on both frontends

[17:01] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: stay untodo'd.

[17:02] <Geth> ¦ roast/ugexe/retodo-legacy-failures: review: https://github.com/Raku/roast/commit/8288e9dd7c

[17:02] <Geth> ¦ roast: ugexe++ created pull request #924: Restore todos for tests that still fail on the legacy frontend

[17:02] <Geth> ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/Raku/roast/pull/924

[17:03] <Geth> ¦ roast: 07e501eb25 | (Nick Logan)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 19 files

[17:03] <Geth> ¦ roast: Restore todos for tests that still fail on the legacy frontend (#924)

[17:03] <Geth> ¦ roast: 

[17:03] <Geth> ¦ roast: Previously bd58f3a54 removed the todo markers of tests that pass now

[17:03] <Geth> ¦ roast: that RakuAST is the default. However many of those tests still fail

[17:03] <Geth> ¦ roast: with RAKUDO_RAKUAST=0, which broke the legacy spectest job in rakudo's

[17:03] <Geth> ¦ roast: CI. This restores the todo markers in the files where the legacy

[17:03] <Geth> ¦ roast: frontend still fails. The files where the tests pass on both frontends

[17:04] <linkable6> ROAST#924 [closed]: https://github.com/Raku/roast/pull/924 Restore todos for tests that still fail on the legacy frontend

[17:04] <Geth> ¦ roast: stay untodo'd.

[17:04] <Geth> ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/Raku/roast/commit/07e501eb25

[17:39] <Geth> ¦ roast: da425eb928 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 8 files

[17:39] <Geth> ¦ roast: Revert "Untodo test passing in 2026.09"

[17:39] <Geth> ¦ roast: 

[17:39] <Geth> ¦ roast: This reverts commit bd58f3a54c71c843254cc2817b0bc4f4744a35a4.

[17:39] <Geth> ¦ roast: review: https://github.com/Raku/roast/commit/da425eb928

[18:33] <ugexe> ab5tract: https://irclogs.raku.org/perl6/2015-02-13.html#18:23-0004 timtoady says "TimToady 	for non-containers =:= is equivalent to ==="

[18:34] <ugexe> maybe we should do that?

[18:34] <ab5tract> That sounds pretty clean to me

[18:37] <[Coke]> just got two "hey can I work on that" pings on 2 different repos from 2 different people.

[18:38] <[Coke]> (both raku related)

[18:39] <[Coke]> new people, I should stress.

[18:42] <[Coke]> this feels like a scam or something. :|

[18:52] <ugexe> https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/6808 is worthy of a pre-merge Blin run if your cores are currently going to waste :)

[19:03] *** bazzrrr0 joined
[19:30] *** bazzrrr0 left
[19:33] <[Coke]> 178 modules left to go on the current run

[19:33] <[Coke]> ugexe: if you can make it a rakudo branch also, that will make it much easier to blin run

[20:14] *** jdv_ is now known as jdv

[20:19] <[Coke]> who maintains the m: builds?

[20:19] <[Coke]> looks like it is stuck before 2026.09

[21:24] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: ugexe++ created pull request #6811: RakuAST: report a value a native return cannot take as a return type check failure

[21:24] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/6811

[21:25] <[Coke]> yah, this person is probably a bot. :|

[21:25] <[Coke]> https://github.com/Raku/Blin/issues/58#issuecomment-6044383103

[21:25] <[Coke]> If they don't have more to say than "if you are not working can i work on this? @coke", I may end up blocking them from the raku repo. :(

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: 2cad885b1b | (Nick Logan)++ | 8 files

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: RakuAST: declare a package's body with the block it sits in

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: 

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: Previously a package other than a role emitted its body as an immediate

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: block in the code evaluating the package. Code that only takes the type

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: of a package never compiles that expression, so the body never reached

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: the program and serializing the methods of the type died with

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: "QAST::Block with cuid N 'POPULATE' ... has not appeared". This happened

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: <…commit message has 18 more lines…>

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2cad885b1b

[21:25] <[Coke]> ~~ s/repo/org

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: 73a88727aa | (Nick Logan)++ | 14 files

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: RakuAST: declare what a package's header declares with its body

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: 

[21:25] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: Previously the declarations in the traits of a package, e.g. `my class C

[21:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: is foo(my constant K = 5) { method m { K } }`, belonged to the package's

[21:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: scope, which produced no code. Nothing declared them at runtime, so the

[21:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: body saw `(Mu)` for a variable or constant, and a sub or an enum value

[21:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: was `VMNull`.

[21:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: <…commit message has 23 more lines…>

[21:26] <Geth> ¦ rakudo/ugexe/rakuast-package-trait-args: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/73a88727aa

[21:26] <ugexe> [Coke]: ^ i pushed it into the repo org repo (all the noise is why i normally use my own remote instead of the official rakudo one)

[21:51] *** lizmat left
[21:51] <[Coke]> makes sense.

[21:53] <[Coke]> doing the redo through 11ac8beafc, only 3 to check.

[21:53] <[Coke]> c: 73a88727aa e

[21:53] <committable6> [Coke], ¦73a8872: «»

[21:53] <[Coke]> cool, already built, will kick it off before I leave, probably.

[21:59] <[Coke]> 11ac8beafc clear on retest, even for Injector? (wonder if it got pushed)

[21:59] <linkable6> (2026-10-07) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/11ac8beafc Bump NQP for line number annotation fix

[22:00] <[Coke]> kicking off a run for 73a8872 now

[22:33] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: ugexe++ created pull request #6812: Handle a Slip from a loop body the same in every loop iterator

[22:33] <Geth> ¦ rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/6812