[00:00] *** reportable6 left [00:00] *** reportable6 joined [00:08] *** jpn joined [00:16] *** jpn left [00:29] *** Manifest0 left [00:58] *** jpn joined [01:03] *** jpn left [01:12] wdym by that my tmp dir is in %LOCALAPPDATA%\Temp [01:17] *** jpn joined [01:25] *** jpn left [01:51] *** bigdata left [01:55] *** jpn joined [02:00] *** jpn left [02:05] Nemokosch: I feel like siberia-man may have confused Raku with Ruby [02:05] guifa_, I'll pass your message to Nemokosch [02:12] *** rf left [02:49] *** jpn joined [02:56] *** razetime joined [02:57] *** jpn left [03:43] *** jpn joined [03:48] *** jpn left [04:20] *** Xliff joined [04:38] *** jpn joined [04:46] *** jpn left [04:50] I think it's official now. YAPC/TPRC/NA/2023 is in Toronto, July 11-13. [05:23] *** razetime left [05:25] *** razetime joined [05:32] *** jpn joined [05:37] *** jpn left [05:48] *** cfa left [05:56] *** razetime left [06:00] *** reportable6 left [06:02] *** reportable6 joined [06:27] *** jpn joined [06:35] *** jpn left [06:47] *** Xliff left [07:01] *** jpn joined [07:08] *** jpn left [07:21] *** razetime joined [07:31] *** xelxebar left [07:32] *** xelxebar joined [07:48] *** ab5tract left [07:58] *** Sgeo left [08:01] *** razetime left [08:07] *** jpn joined [08:12] *** jpn left [08:14] *** razetime joined [08:14] *** xelxebar_ joined [08:17] *** xelxebar left [08:26] *** razetime left [08:30] *** jpn joined [08:38] *** jpn left [08:42] *** sena_kun joined [09:00] ¦ doc: 2colours++ created pull request #4219: Rewrite the "make your own operator" example [09:00] ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/pull/4219 [09:42] *** evalable6 left [09:42] *** linkable6 left [09:43] *** evalable6 joined [09:44] *** linkable6 joined [10:10] *** xelxebar_ is now known as xelxebar [10:20] *** jpn joined [10:35] *** nine_ left [10:35] *** nine joined [10:40] *** jpn left [10:50] *** epony left [10:51] *** epony joined [10:56] *** epony left [10:56] *** epony joined [11:05] *** jpn joined [11:10] *** jpn left [11:22] ¦ raku.org: 5dbecb2dc5 | (Alexandr Zahatski)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/whatever/index.html [11:22] ¦ raku.org: Update index.html [11:22] ¦ raku.org: [11:22] ¦ raku.org: add podlite link [11:22] ¦ raku.org: review: https://github.com/Raku/raku.org/commit/5dbecb2dc5 [11:22] ¦ raku.org: a65cf5ea07 | (Alexandr Zahatski)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/whatever/index.html [11:22] ¦ raku.org: add online pod6 editor [11:22] ¦ raku.org: review: https://github.com/Raku/raku.org/commit/a65cf5ea07 [11:22] ¦ raku.org: d63fb663a8 | (Patrick Böker)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/whatever/index.html [11:22] ¦ raku.org: Merge pull request #180 from zag/master [11:22] *** jpn joined [11:22] ¦ raku.org: [11:22] ¦ raku.org: Add Podlite and pod.in to Whatever page. [11:22] ¦ raku.org: review: https://github.com/Raku/raku.org/commit/d63fb663a8 [11:46] *** jpn left [11:47] *** jpn joined [12:00] *** reportable6 left [12:01] * lizmat clickbaits https://rakudoweekly.blog/2023/02/27/2023-09-docu-renewed/ [12:02] *** reportable6 joined [12:10] *** ab5tract joined [12:45] ¦ raku.org/whatever-update-2023: c6e9573471 | (Patrick Böker)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/whatever/index.html [12:45] ¦ raku.org/whatever-update-2023: Bring Whatever page up to date [12:45] ¦ raku.org/whatever-update-2023: [12:45] ¦ raku.org/whatever-update-2023: Remove long dead Padre and archived vim-perl6. Add Kate and RakuNavigator. [12:45] ¦ raku.org/whatever-update-2023: review: https://github.com/Raku/raku.org/commit/c6e9573471 [12:45] ¦ raku.org: patrickbkr++ created pull request #181: Bring Whatever page up to date [12:45] ¦ raku.org: review: https://github.com/Raku/raku.org/pull/181 [12:46] *** human-blip left [12:59] ¦ doc: tbrowder++ created pull request #4220: Ensure the 'Brackets' table generator always uses the data source file [12:59] ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/pull/4220 [13:46] *** evalable6 left [13:46] *** linkable6 left [13:47] *** linkable6 joined [13:49] *** evalable6 joined [14:20] *** xelxebar left [14:28] *** jgaz joined [14:32] *** rakuuser joined [14:50] *** rf joined [14:50] Morning folks [14:51] <[Coke]> GOOD MORNING IRC [14:52] *** bigtestaccount[m left [14:52] *** tiziodcaio left [14:52] *** BarrOff left [14:53] *** CIAvash left [14:53] *** tadzik left [14:53] *** buffet left [14:55] *** buffet joined [15:13] good morning [Coke], did you wake up screaming? :-) [15:16] <[Coke]> docs have a very old note that RAKULIB is NYI - that's wrong, yes? [15:16] <[Coke]> moritz: not today but it's happened. :| [15:17] <[Coke]> ... that sounds horrible. Like, once or twice, usually after sleeping on my shoulder funny, sorry. [15:18] *** jpn left [15:22] <[Coke]> Yah, that doc note is old. [15:22] *** BarrOff joined [15:22] ¦ doc/main: d66241c3da | Coke++ | doc/Language/intro.pod6 [15:22] ¦ doc/main: Update perl6->raku section [15:22] ¦ doc/main: [15:22] ¦ doc/main: * move to end of file, reduce importance [15:22] ¦ doc/main: * Remove old NYI tag [15:22] ¦ doc/main: * Add .rakutest [15:22] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/d66241c3da [15:23] *** jpn joined [15:25] ¦ doc/main: 26dd5e260e | (Márton Polgár)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/js-nutshell.pod6 [15:25] ¦ doc/main: Rewrite the "make your own operator" example [15:25] ¦ doc/main: [15:25] ¦ doc/main: The previous one was a mis-implementation of an actually existent operator `||=`. [15:25] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/26dd5e260e [15:25] ¦ doc/main: f5c80f6c60 | cfa++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/js-nutshell.pod6 [15:25] ¦ doc/main: Merge pull request #4219 from 2colours/patch-3 [15:25] ¦ doc/main: [15:26] ¦ doc/main: Rewrite the "make your own operator" example [15:26] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/f5c80f6c60 [15:27] *** cfa joined [15:27] Can someone give me to TLDR on RakuAST [15:28] I think nine was working on that. Maybe he knows if there is an estimated date [15:36] ¦ doc/main: 68ee7c5e85 | cfa++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/js-nutshell.pod6 [15:36] ¦ doc/main: Fix: Add comment character to wrapped example line [15:36] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/68ee7c5e85 [15:37] *** tadzik joined [15:45] *** bigtestaccount[m joined [15:55] <[Coke]> https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/main/src/Raku/ast/README.md [15:56] <[Coke]> Several core developers including nine are working on RakuAST. no estimated completion date yet, though we often get updates on percentage complete in terms of tests here. [15:56] *** Sgeo joined [15:57] *** CIAvash joined [16:00] <[Coke]> Also of note: work on RakuAST is in the main branch. [16:06] *** xelxebar joined [16:06] *** ab5tract left [16:19] *** rakuuser left [16:27] *** lizmat_ joined [16:32] *** lizmat_ left [16:33] *** lizmat_ joined [16:33] ¦ doc/main: 0144e20110 | Coke++ | doc/Language/5to6-perlvar.pod6 [16:33] ¦ doc/main: Change emphasis to historical from not-updated [16:33] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/0144e20110 [16:33] ¦ doc/main: 7214aae18c | Coke++ | 2 files [16:33] ¦ doc/main: Remove intro table from intro entirely [16:33] ¦ doc/main: [16:33] ¦ doc/main: Most of it was already duplicated in filename extensions; [16:33] ¦ doc/main: also update that table to reflect preferred first, and [16:33] ¦ doc/main: remove cro extension - not part of core, didn't change [16:33] ¦ doc/main: anyway. [16:33] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/7214aae18c [16:33] ¦ doc/main: 199348e514 | Coke++ | 3 files [16:33] ¦ doc/main: Update from .t to .rakutest [16:33] ¦ doc/main: [16:33] ¦ doc/main: Avoid duplicating list of preferred AND historic extensions here, [16:33] ¦ doc/main: refer to existing list instead. [16:33] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/199348e514 [16:36] *** rf left [16:36] *** SenFache left [16:36] *** tib left [16:36] *** committable6 left [16:36] *** quotable6 left [16:36] *** coverable6 left [16:36] *** shareable6 left [16:36] *** bisectable6 left [16:36] *** kaskal left [16:36] *** peder left [16:36] *** lizmat left [16:36] *** sjn left [16:36] *** Ekho left [16:36] *** gabiruh_ left [16:36] *** rypervenche left [16:36] *** perryprog left [16:36] *** synthmeat left [16:37] *** Xliff joined [16:37] \o [16:37] What templating systems are you folks using right now? [16:37] *** rf joined [16:37] *** xelxebar left [16:40] *** SenFache left [16:40] *** SenFache joined [16:46] *** lizmat_ left [16:46] *** lizmat joined [16:53] idk but here is a thing you can skim Xliff https://gist.github.com/pheix/2632f286368e2aafd1c8629d07b3f4b6 [16:53] *** jpn left [16:57] pheix 👀 [17:00] *** euandreh joined [17:09] ¦ doc/main: fe0dd7736c | Coke++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6 [17:09] ¦ doc/main: reduce prominence of name change note, text. [17:09] *** vrurg_ left [17:09] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/fe0dd7736c [17:10] *** vrurg joined [17:17] ¦ doc/main: b117a7e79a | Coke++ | .gitignore [17:17] ¦ doc/main: Clean up [17:17] ¦ doc/main: [17:17] ¦ doc/main: remove a few old unused entries [17:17] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/b117a7e79a [17:18] Xliff: i rolled my own that just generated code from the template [17:24] *** nort left [17:32] <[Coke]> the change to .rakutest means anyone using prove needs to add a --ext=rakutest [17:45] prove6 is preferred, right? [17:47] to be honest, this extension change seems kinda voluntaristic here [17:47] it needs to be backwards compatible [17:47] otherwise half of the modules in the eco will either be untestable or install without tests [17:48] what initiated it? the deprecation of the .t extension was nowhere written and nobody talked about it up until like 2 or 3 months ago [17:48] it was a big discussion ~2 years ago [17:48] this isn't like .pm6 or .p6 [17:48] it's part of that discussion, too [17:48] we were trying to determine _what_ the extension should be and test extensions got pulled into that [17:49] ¦ doc/main: 098dae258f | Coke++ | 56 files [17:49] ¦ doc/main: Rename our own test files from .t to .rakutest [17:49] ¦ doc/main: [17:49] ¦ doc/main: Update testing module, corresponding tests that [17:49] ¦ doc/main: depend on file extension also. [17:49] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/098dae258f [17:49] but that discussion apparently didn't lead to the conclusion that is kinda taken at face value at the moment [17:49] *** euandreh left [17:49] what do you mean? [17:50] that .t was not decided to be deprecated and now all of a sudden, people started acting as if it was [17:50] I don't care much for the extensions, to be honest; much rather it would be good to know how these processes come to be and how to synchronize them [17:51] <[Coke]> From my standpoint - I've had on my list updating raku/doc to follow all the new extensions, as a canary, for some times. previous doc person was more cautious. Now that the site is live, I'm going forward with it. [17:53] [Coke]++ [17:53] nemokosch: ah, yes, it wasn't as explicit as the pm6 -> rakumod extension change [17:53] tonyo, I'll pass your message to Nemokosch [17:53] <[Coke]> Next on my rename list is pod6 to rakudoc - will do one, make sure the new site can deal with it, then do them all. [17:54] <[Coke]> (rakumod was already done because it doesn't impact anything downstream) [17:55] https://github.com/Raku/problem-solving/blob/18890dc9f416330897f536b177974cc6ec12b071/solutions/language/Path-to-Raku.md extensions second paragraph [17:56] *** euandreh joined [17:56] I'm not the spokesperson of the .t extension but it would be good to know how it fell obsolete 3 years later [17:59] mind you, it's completely possible that other people just don't put too much thought into things like that but my recurring worry is that an outsider would get contradictory feedback and impressions about a lot of Raku-related things which can easily imply chaos [18:00] *** reportable6 left [18:00] <[Coke]> Folks, I'll be over in #raku-docs if you need me for anything. [18:00] *** [Coke] left [18:02] *** reportable6 joined [18:03] ¦ doc: cfa++ created pull request #4221: Prefer OUTPUT: «…» in examples [18:03] ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/pull/4221 [18:07] it is a bit that way and the docs should be updated [18:07] as fez moves into the dist management space (i'm currently writing a gzip module so now system deps are necessary from fez or from zef) then a lot of that can start to be cleaned up [18:08] there's other atypical patterns that need to change in META6 too, like `depends` specs [18:09] `name` should be the dist name and not a module name [18:10] etc etc [18:22] *** jpn joined [18:25] *** AlexDaniel joined [18:25] *** epony left [18:31] ¦ doc/main: 80de6d52c9 | Coke++ | doc/Language/filename-extensions.pod6 [18:31] ¦ doc/main: Move note out of table! [18:31] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/80de6d52c9 [18:31] ¦ doc/main: 5265a6efde | cfa++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 21 files [18:31] ¦ doc/main: Prefer OUTPUT: «…» in examples (#4221) [18:31] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/5265a6efde [18:32] *** jpn left [18:34] ¦ raku.org: c6e9573471 | (Patrick Böker)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/whatever/index.html [18:34] ¦ raku.org: Bring Whatever page up to date [18:34] ¦ raku.org: [18:34] ¦ raku.org: Remove long dead Padre and archived vim-perl6. Add Kate and RakuNavigator. [18:34] ¦ raku.org: review: https://github.com/Raku/raku.org/commit/c6e9573471 [18:34] ¦ raku.org: 1b0b5c177c | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/whatever/index.html [18:34] ¦ raku.org: Merge pull request #181 from Raku/whatever-update-2023 [18:34] ¦ raku.org: [18:34] ¦ raku.org: Bring Whatever page up to date [18:34] ¦ raku.org: review: https://github.com/Raku/raku.org/commit/1b0b5c177c [18:42] *** AlexDaniel left [18:43] ¦ doc/main: 5e6c63d5ca | cfa++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Mu.pod6 [18:43] ¦ doc/main: Mu: Tidy link to "Mu (negative)" on Wikipedia [18:43] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/5e6c63d5ca [18:52] *** xelxebar joined [18:56] *** AlexDaniel joined [18:58] *** jpn joined [18:59] *** epony joined [19:03] *** euandreh left [19:03] *** jpn left [19:11] I'm wondering about nqp::handle(). It seems the things written it its argument list aren't executed until they are used. Is there some special casing going on or is that some standard functionality I'm blissfully unaware of? [19:16] are they being thunked? [19:16] *** jpn joined [19:18] Hm. Docs don't have much to say about thunks. Anywhere to read up about them? [19:20] Code usually looks like this: nqp::handle(code(value), 'EMIT', $state.run-emit(), 'DONE', $state.run-done(), 'CATCH', $state.run-catch()); [19:21] *** jpn left [19:21] *** MasterDuke joined [19:26] *** euandreh joined [19:33] *** jpn joined [19:34] ¦ doc/main: ddedcaa51b | (Will Coleda)++ | util/test-modified.sh [19:34] ¦ doc/main: util for running make test before commit [19:34] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/ddedcaa51b [19:34] ¦ doc/main: ebe807a65e | (Will Coleda)++ | doc/Language/filename-extensions.pod6 [19:34] ¦ doc/main: Update entire page, not just the table. [19:34] ¦ doc/main: [19:34] ¦ doc/main: (the text referenced the table, had to adjust) [19:34] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/ebe807a65e [19:36] thunking in haskell means something isn't evaluated until it's used, eg x = len(inf) would return a thunk and not hang until x was used elsewhere [19:37] in terms of nqp i'd guess that the $state.run-emit isn't evaluated until that nqp::handle is evaluated [19:37] but i haven't dug around in there for a while [19:40] *** rakuuser joined [19:40] *** jpn left [19:46] *** squashable6 left [19:48] *** squashable6 joined [19:53] *** jpn joined [19:58] *** jpn left [20:11] *** jpn joined [20:15] *** jpn left [20:18] shmup: Thanks for the link! [20:27] *** Guest9849 joined [20:31] *** Guest9849 left [20:31] *** Guest5811 joined [20:37] *** jpn joined [20:39] ¦ doc/main: 75388e30aa | cfa++ | 21 files [20:39] ¦ doc/main: Add missing ␤ characters to OUTPUTs [20:39] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/75388e30aa [20:43] *** jpn left [20:51] *** gcd left [20:56] *** jpn joined [20:57] *** gcd joined [21:00] *** jpn left [21:05] *** Xliff_ joined [21:07] *** Xliff left [21:11] *** Guest5811 left [21:11] *** Xliff_ left [21:16] *** shmup left [21:36] *** jpn joined [21:40] *** jpn left [21:41] m: class Foo { has $.bar; }; say Foo.new(bar => '123') eq Foo.new(bar => '123'); [21:41] rakudo-moar e9f438f5a: OUTPUT: «False␤» [21:41] How do you compare objects? I've never actually had to do this before lol [21:53] *** jpn joined [22:01] *** jpn left [22:02] *** rakuuser left [22:09] there's eqv for structural comparison, and === for object identity [22:09] *** rf left [22:11] *** shmup joined [22:12] === normally works using the .WHICH representation, while eqv works as a .raku comparison by default but since it's meant to be generic, it's to be expected that it's overloaded in all funky ways [22:13] what also uses the .WHICH representation is the hash [22:13] and all data structures backed by a hash some way (Sets, for example) [22:15] *** jpn joined [22:18] tbh I wish it was disallowed (or at least strongly and explicitly discouraged) to overload most built-in operators; the ones that aren't explicitly meant to be generic, at the very least [22:20] if you start overloading e.g numeric operators for values that cannot be meaningfully coerced into numeric values, you basically drill a hole into the predictability of the code [22:20] *** jpn left [22:29] *** Guest5811 joined [22:31] *** jpn joined [22:36] *** jpn left [22:37] *** SenFache is now known as Sauvin [22:44] *** Guest5811 left [23:00] *** rf joined [23:00] *** Guest5811 joined [23:02] Thus the trick though -- how do you know someone isn't overloading for an object that isn't sufficiently numeric? This is def a case wehre the philosophy is to give folks enough rope to hang themselves BUT also provide sufficient enough guidance (== and eq, along with the existance of ===, eqv, cmp, =:=, etc should clue people in that maybe they should at least give thought to how to compare a custom class) [23:02] but if someone wanted to figure out a way to hack in, say, hyperreal numbers… haha [23:03] *** sena_kun left [23:06] ¦ doc/main: a13058f24c | (Will Coleda)++ | .gitignore [23:06] ¦ doc/main: Remove obsolete files [23:06] ¦ doc/main: [23:06] ¦ doc/main: These used to belong to the link checker, which is now run as part of [23:06] ¦ doc/main: doc-website - script is long gone. [23:06] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/a13058f24c [23:10] *** Guest5811 left [23:11] *** Guest8070 joined [23:11] *** jpn joined [23:11] *** Guest8070 is now known as tg57 [23:12] ¦ doc/main: adca8424cc | (Will Coleda)++ | 5 files [23:12] ¦ doc/main: Remove old site templates [23:12] ¦ doc/main: [23:12] ¦ doc/main: These are now handled by doc-website [23:12] ¦ doc/main: [23:12] ¦ doc/main: Closes #4214 [23:12] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/adca8424cc [23:16] ¦ doc: coke assigned to dontlaugh Issue Possible usage of SparrowCI for some CI tasks https://github.com/Raku/doc/issues/4195 [23:19] *** jpn left [23:21] guifa: well, that's exactly the point... it's not possible to know because it's not forbidden [23:21] but it could still be discouraged [23:26] ¦ doc/main: 6a53615de8 | cfa++ | 8 files [23:26] ¦ doc/main: Add in a few more missing ␤ chars [23:27] ¦ doc/main: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/6a53615de8 [23:28] 👋␤ [23:30] 😄 [23:30] *** NemokoschKiwi joined [23:43] *** rakuuser joined [23:46] *** tg57 left [23:46] ¦ doc/rakudoc: cfbb963a0c | (Will Coleda)++ | t/04-pod6.rakutest [23:46] ¦ doc/rakudoc: Remove obsolete xt test preventing .pod files [23:46] ¦ doc/rakudoc: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/cfbb963a0c [23:46] ¦ doc/rakudoc: 3f548619c7 | (Will Coleda)++ | 824 files [23:46] ¦ doc/rakudoc: rename files from pod6 to rakudoc [23:46] ¦ doc/rakudoc: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/3f548619c7 [23:46] ¦ doc/rakudoc: 7eda3948e0 | (Will Coleda)++ | 18 files [23:46] ¦ doc/rakudoc: track file rename from pod6 to rakudoc [23:46] ¦ doc/rakudoc: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/commit/7eda3948e0 [23:47] ¦ doc: coke++ created pull request #4222: Rakudoc [23:47] ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/Raku/doc/pull/4222