[00:25] *** jpn left [00:26] *** jpn joined [00:29] *** guifa left [00:40] I'd like to make it a compile-time thing... to break if the value-class is mutating it's attributes and /or it have mutable attributes... I think the first part may be possible with RakuAST... but the 2nd part not even with that, I think... An attribute can be of type Any and be populated with a List or an Array, for example... we only know when an object is instanciated, right? [00:41] Another thing is that I'm using `Proxy`s to be sure the attribute is not changed... That might be slow, right? but I can't find an different was for doing that... any suggestion? [00:44] *** jpn left [00:45] even modifying `set_value()` would not help (as I learned on Red, and tried again now) [00:45] *** jpn joined [00:47] m: class Bla { has $.a; method b { $!a = 42 } }; (my $attr = Bla.^attributes.head) does role :: { method set_value(|) { say "here" } }; my $bla = Bla.new; say "1st try: "; $bla.b; say "2nd try: "; $attr.set_value: $bla, 1 [00:47] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «1st try: ␤2nd try: ␤here␤» [01:04] *** jpn left [01:37] *** hulk joined [01:38] *** kylese left [02:15] *** hulk left [02:15] *** kylese joined [02:26] is there a way to find out from the class type if its objects will be value objects? [02:28] m: for Array, List, Hash, Map { say .^name; say .WHICH.^name; say .new.WHICH.^name } [02:28] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «Array␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤List␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤Hash␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤Map␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤» [02:29] m: for Array, List, Hash, Map, Bag, BagHash, Set, SetHash { say .^name; say .WHICH.^name; say .new.WHICH.^name } [02:29] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «Array␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤List␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤Hash␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤Map␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤Bag␤ValueObjAt␤ValueObjAt␤BagHash␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤Set␤ValueObjAt␤ValueObjAt␤SetHash␤ValueObjAt␤ObjAt␤» [03:20] *** tirnanog left [03:23] *** tirnanog joined [03:23] *** tirnanog left [03:40] *** guifa joined [04:06] *** vrurg left [04:57] *** vrurg joined [05:30] *** Sgeo left [06:02] *** guifa left [06:32] SmokeMachine: every class that returns value objects has `WHICH(–> ValueObjAt:D)` as one of multi dispatch candidates [06:34] m: sub is-valueobj($t) { $t.^methods.grep({.name ~~ "WHICH"}).flatmap(*.candidates).map(*.signature).grep({ .params[0].type eqv $t && .returns eqv ValueObjAt:D }).so }; for Array, List, Hash, Map, Bag, BagHash, Set, SetHash { say [.^name, is-valueobj($_), .WHICH.^name, .new.WHICH.^name] } [06:34] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «[Array False ValueObjAt ObjAt]␤[List False ValueObjAt ObjAt]␤[Hash False ValueObjAt ObjAt]␤[Map False ValueObjAt ObjAt]␤[Bag True ValueObjAt ValueObjAt]␤[BagHash False ValueObjAt ObjAt]␤[Set True ValueObjAt ValueObjAt]␤[SetHash False Val…» [06:40] hm, `.params[0].type eqv $t` doesn't consider inheritance [06:48] I'm suspecting it's possible to create a Signature object to match against WHICH directly [06:49] `$t.^can("WHICH") ~~ :($t –> ValueObjAt:D)` or something similar [07:02] *** thaewrapt left [07:10] *** thaewrapt joined [07:15] *** thaewrapt left [07:25] *** fluca1978 joined [07:25] *** fluca1978 left [07:26] *** thaewrapt joined [07:31] *** thaewrapt left [07:42] *** thaewrapt joined [07:52] *** thaewrapt left [07:54] *** wayland76 joined [08:02] *** beastieboo__ joined [08:04] *** beastieboo_ left [08:05] *** thaewrapt joined [08:05] *** beastieboo_ joined [08:08] *** beastieboo__ left [08:18] releasable6: status [08:18] 2024-06-27T19:22:44Z #raku-dev El_Che 2024.06 release happened [08:18] El_Che, Next release in ≈27 days and ≈10 hours. There are no known blockers. Changelog for this release was not started yet [08:18] El_Che, Details: https://gist.github.com/b82e54a21c385aabb868a2b964ed7da4 [08:19] ok [08:25] *** thaewrapt left [08:33] *** avuserow_ left [08:33] *** avuserow_ joined [08:36] *** thaewrapt joined [08:41] *** thaewrapt left [08:42] *** jpn joined [08:52] *** thaewrapt joined [08:58] *** thaewrapt left [09:09] *** thaewrapt joined [09:14] *** soverysour joined [09:15] *** thaewrapt left [09:18] *** soverysour left [09:26] *** thaewrapt joined [09:31] *** thaewrapt left [09:42] *** thaewrapt joined [09:49] *** thaewrapt left [09:55] *** thaewrapt joined [10:02] *** thaewrapt left [10:14] *** thaewrapt joined [10:19] *** thaewrapt left [10:30] *** thaewrapt joined [10:34] *** thaewrapt left [10:45] SmokeMachine: I like the concept of ValueClass … took a look at the strawman … is the idea that I go class MyClass Is ValueClass {…}? [10:46] *** thaewrapt joined [10:47] I guess you saw the grant proposal from codesections a while back … that was more a low level how to apply TRIEs or similar to making objects immutable at the low level iirc [10:49] also, I would say that for serious OO we should be relaxed about always wanting $! attributes and just making consumers go obj.attr: 42 rather than obj.attr=42 for setter methods [10:50] imo that’s the best use of the : [10:57] *** dpk left [10:58] *** dpk joined [11:02] *** thaewrapt left [11:13] *** thaewrapt joined [11:20] *** thaewrapt left [11:30] *** thaewrapt joined [11:36] *** thaewrapt left [11:44] still rerunning for failing t/09-moar/00-misc.t [11:44] that's the new biggest flipper test [11:46] *** thaewrapt joined [11:53] *** thaewrapt left [11:57] *** thaewrapt joined [12:03] cloudsmith push deb nxadm-pkgs/rakudo-pkg/ubuntu/oracular rakudo-pkg-Ubuntudevel_2024.06-01_amd64.deb [12:03] Checking deb package upload parameters ... ERROR [12:03] Failed to validate upload parameters! (status: 422 - Unprocessable Entity) [12:03] *** thaewrapt left [12:03] like with every release, I need to tell cloudsmith to add a repo [12:03] I am their canary [12:12] *** thaewrapt joined [12:18] *** hudo_ left [12:19] *** hudo_ joined [12:20] *** hudo_ left [12:21] *** hudo_ joined [12:44] *** sftp left [12:45] *** wayland joined [12:47] *** wayland76 left [12:58] El_Che: re t/09-moar/00-misc.t I've run that in a loop for 40 minutes on an Intel box, and didn't crash once :-( [13:20] *** jpn left [13:31] the github containers have less resources, that may be a factor [13:36] packages uploaded to repos [13:48] *** jpn joined [14:03] *** Sgeo joined [14:09] *** jpn left [14:13] *** jpn joined [14:54] *** soverysour joined [15:09] *** soverysour left [15:11] Voldenet: thanks! I’ll see if I can improve the module with that… but now I’m thinking that I’ll need to wait to test it on instantiation any way… [15:13] librasteve: no, at least currently you would replace the keyboard class with the keyboard value-class [15:16] I was searching a way to not need to use Proxy on that for performance reasons… but couldn’t find a way… it just uses nqp::getattr(), right? If I override it… it will impact everything, right (and I’m not even sure if that’s possible…) [15:17] Does anyone have any idea on how I could replace Proxy on ValueClass with something to get a better performance? [15:18] (I haven’t test the performance… I just believe Proxy is slow… I could be wrong) [15:19] * lizmat looks [15:23] m: my $a := 42; $a = 666 [15:23] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «Cannot assign to an immutable value␤ in block at line 1␤␤» [15:23] isn't that error message good enough for you? [15:24] because that appears to be the only reason for using a Proxy, right? [15:24] Yes, but I need that on attributes… [15:25] lizmat: I just saw your ValueType (https://raku.land/zef:lizmat/ValueType)… [15:25] m: class A { has $.b; method TWEAK() { $!b := 42 } }; A.new.b = 666 [15:25] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «Cannot modify an immutable Int (42)␤ in block at line 1␤␤» [15:26] Oh!!! That’s a great one!! [15:27] I’ll try that! Do you do that on ValueType? [15:27] If you do… I’ll probably delete mine… [15:28] It seem you only add a WHICH… [15:29] yeah, if you as an author decide to make make the attributes settable, then it cannot be a ValueType by definitionn [15:30] so I feel it's a case of DIHWIDT [15:30] I mean, even in your code it would be possible to circumvent the test [15:31] Yes… it will be always possible, right? But you would need to try harder… [15:31] I guess it could also check the accessor methods [15:31] *** jpn left [15:32] If it is rw?! I do it on attributes and on the whole class [15:33] m: class A { has $.a }; dd A.^find_method("a").signature [15:33] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «:(A:D $:: *%_)␤» [15:33] m: class A { has $.a is rw }; dd A.^find_method("a").signature [15:33] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «:(A:D $:: *%_)␤» [15:33] sadly, no difference in signature [15:34] https://github.com/FCO/ValueClass/blob/main/lib/MetamodelX/ValueClass.rakumod#L5 [15:35] I changed the attribute’s compose() to die if it is rw [15:35] And the classes set_rw() to always die [15:35] (Metaclass’ I mean) [15:37] yeah, I saw [15:38] Make sense? [15:38] I think I’ll do something your ValueType do, I’ll also cache the WHICH return… [15:38] yeah... but lemme see if it's easily added to ValueType [15:38] *** jpn joined [15:40] If you add that (and the binds for each attribute) to your ValueType, I’ll probably make my ValueClass become just a keyword that applies your ValueType… [15:49] I was thinking of adding: [15:49] if @attributes.grep(*.rw) -> @mutables { [15:49] die "These attributes are mutable: " [15:49] ~ @mutables.map(*.name).join(', '); [15:49] } [15:52] but I'm not sure it should go beyond that, really [15:56] I think that’s ok… I can continue with CalueClass than… :) [15:57] And about the binding… I think I’ll need to continue with the proxies with Positionals and Associatives, right? https://glot.io/snippets/gxjkszeuxv [15:58] why not: "method a { $!a := 42 }" ? [15:59] also: you can specify on attributes is built(:bind) [15:59] Sorry, I didn’t get it… [15:59] m: class A { has $.a is built(:bind) } [15:59] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: ( no output ) [16:00] m: class A { has $.a is built(:bind) = 30 } [16:00] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: ( no output ) [16:00] then you don't need the TWEAK [16:00] I tested that and it was still not breaking and changeable (I may have done something wrong, of course) [16:00] m: class A { has $.a is built(:bind) = 30 }; A.new.a = 42 [16:00] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «Cannot modify an immutable Int (30)␤ in block at line 1␤␤» [16:00] Oh! :bind?! I haven’t used that! [16:02] I guess you could add that to your metaclass., executing that trait_mod on it [16:03] Yes… that’s my plan now… [16:03] There is a problem… [16:05] m: class C { has $.a is built(:bind) }; C.new.a = 13 [16:05] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «Cannot modify an immutable 'Any' type object␤ in block at line 1␤␤» [16:05] isn't that what you want? [16:05] m: class C { has $.a is built(:bind); method a { $!a = 13 } }; C.new.a [16:05] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: ( no output ) [16:06] I mean value types are supposed to be immutable [16:06] If there is no value it allows editin it from inside the class… [16:06] well, *that* I would consider a case of DIHWIDT [16:07] m: class C { has $.a is built(:bind) = Any; method a { $!a = 13 } }; C.new.a [16:07] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «assign requires a concrete object (got a Any type object instead)␤ in method a at line 1␤ in block at line 1␤␤» [16:07] Maybe I’ll need to always set something… [16:08] still I'm not clear of what you want *exactly* :-) [16:08] I don’t want to give to the developer the chance to forget that shouldn’t be mutated… [16:09] but what if you would allow * to be specified for a value, but want to use Inf inside? [16:09] then being able to do: $!a := Inf if $!a ~~ Whatever inside TWEAK would be very helpful [16:09] If the developer choose to use value-class instead of class… they shouldn’t be “allowed” to mutate… [16:11] Using Proxy I could just make my TWEAK run after the custom one and that would work… [16:12] It would be exame “mutable until TWEAK and immutable after TWEAK” [16:12] feels like a heck of a lot of complexity to guard against stupid developers :-) [16:13] I don’t know the other developers… but I am stupid enough to need that… [16:14] I can also do the binding on TWEAK… [16:14] then by all means! :-) [16:14] going to have to go afk [16:14] laters& [16:14] Thanks for your help! [16:15] *** soverysour joined [16:16] *** soverysour left [16:18] *** soverysour joined [16:18] *** soverysour left [16:18] *** soverysour joined [16:18] *** soverysour left [16:18] *** soverysour joined [16:40] *** soverysour left [16:55] *** soverysour joined [17:09] *** beastieboo__ joined [17:12] *** beastieboo_ left [17:52] *** sftp joined [18:11] *** JRaspass left [18:11] *** jjatria left [18:11] *** JRaspass joined [18:11] *** jjatria joined [19:04] do we have something like Tuple (https://raku.land/zef:lizmat/Tuple) for Associative? My ValueClass is going to use Tuple by default when a Positional attribute is defined... I'd like to have something like that for Associative... [19:05] I think I found it... ValueMap (https://raku.land/zef:lizmat/ValueMap) [19:06] heh :) [19:07] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/DNKq5V8m/image.png [19:15] :-) [19:16] *** jpn left [19:25] that makes sense, right? If I'm creating a class that can't have non value attributes, it makes sense to change the default class for @ and % attributes from non-values to values ones, right? [19:27] yes, it does :-) [19:30] :) [19:41] lizmat: is this expected? I mean is that () around the values correct? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/N4DwqEfa/image.png [19:41] *** soverysour left [19:42] yes, otherwise Map.new will interprete the pairs as named args [19:42] :+1 [19:42] 👍 [19:59] *** beastieboo_ joined [20:02] *** beastieboo__ left [20:20] lizmat: should an empty Tuple be false? [20:20] m: say ?[] [20:20] rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «False␤» [20:26] *** beastieboo__ joined [20:29] *** beastieboo_ left [20:38] *** xinming left [20:39] *** xinming joined [21:09] m: ().so.say [21:09] librasteve, rakudo-moar 7190eae29: OUTPUT: «Cannot test 7190eae29b8e7a1be56789a221ba14ded934c52a (Broken archive)» [21:09] (2024-06-27) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7190eae29b Merge pull request #5600 from rakudo/release-2024.06 [21:09] False [21:10] just reflecting that empty List is False [21:11] *** beastieboo_ joined [21:14] *** beastieboo__ left [21:21] https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/nwYc14ej/ [21:21] https://github.com/lizmat/ValueMap/issues/1 [21:21] https://github.com/lizmat/Tuple/issues/4 [21:32] *** beastieboo__ joined [21:34] *** beastieboo_ left [22:09] <[Coke]> What's the expectation YOU have on those tickets? Are they false and you don't know why? True and you expect false? [22:16] *** sena_kun joined [22:38] they should be False: Tuple fixed now, ValueMap I'll do tomorrow [22:38] sleep& [22:53] *** sena_kun left [23:31] [Coke]: I would expect them to be false if empty… [23:32] *** guifa joined [23:34] Hi guifa ! Did you see that? https://github.com/FCO/ValueClass [23:35] SmokeMachine++ [23:35] guifa: it has many improvements from that first version [23:35] Perfect example by the way of why goign to conferences is so awesome [23:35] an idea was sparked during hallway track [23:35] and it got implemented within a day and a half [23:35] Totally agree [23:36] @SmokeMachine and @guifa -- I assumed you still in Vegas gambling away the good karma you got from presenting TPRC. [23:36] I left last night unfortunately $day-job wrecked my plans to be there the whole week [23:36] Not making new Raku values... [23:36] Agh -- I see. [23:38] I’m just lm just going to my last walk (my wife wants me to buy some stuff for here) and I’m going back to UK tomorrow [23:39] I'm hoping to make the london one [23:39] If you do, I’ll see you there [23:39] <_grenzo> The London one is only 1 day...correct? [23:39] Las Vegas, London -- to far me. [23:40] Yeah just a single day for London [23:40] Yes, 1 day [23:40] Ah, yeah -- and just for one day! [23:42] Is ValueClass the first Raku module changing the default types for @ and % attributes inside a class? [23:43] Well, I am currently making graphs (with Raku) -- so, a certain Raku conference would have been good place to discuss the corresponding packages. [23:43] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633753286209699870/1256394538596044800/Raku-Graph-gallery-demo.png?ex=66809c18&is=667f4a98&hm=2a6d81d48d056049310816f08b661bbe9365f6b6e1803ed0765cd03c3a63e6ab& [23:44] Damn, the Petersen graph got "disfigured" again!