[00:01] *** jartycujck67 left [00:01] *** jartycujck38 joined [00:01] *** jartycujck38 left [00:01] *** jartycujck678 joined [00:02] *** jartycujck678 left [00:11] apogee_ntv: I've been thinking on trying to write something like this (nothing is implemented yet): https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/WM2OHNR2/ [00:19] *** Guest90 joined [00:24] *** Guest90 left [00:30] SmokeMachine: Looks workable [00:52] I’ll try to play with that idea this week when I have some time… [01:00] SmokeMachine: I'd maybe leave it til v1, I plan to lock the API at v1 and guarantee no BC breaks. [01:00] It should be fairly stable now [01:01] But could change subtly [01:02] v1 will launch with a website, tutorial, FAQs etc. [01:36] *** sjn left [01:48] *** hulk joined [01:50] *** kylese left [02:15] *** Sgeo joined [02:15] *** hulk left [02:18] *** kylese joined [02:22] *** sjn joined [02:58] *** kst joined [03:25] interesting api [03:33] *** vasko4535586 left [03:45] *** vasko4535586 joined [03:48] *** Sgeo left [03:56] *** Sgeo joined [03:59] *** sibl joined [03:59] *** lichtkind__ joined [04:02] *** lichtkind_ left [04:11] *** sibl left [04:13] *** sibl joined [04:20] *** sibl left [04:20] *** topnep left [04:24] *** topnep joined [05:13] *** havochunter joined [05:22] *** sibl joined [05:43] *** dustinm` left [05:58] *** abraxxa joined [06:01] *** dustinm` joined [06:07] *** Aedil left [06:10] *** [r4] joined [06:25] *** havochunter left [06:41] *** Sgeo left [07:06] *** havochunter joined [07:24] *** soverysour joined [07:24] *** soverysour left [07:24] *** soverysour joined [07:35] *** sibl left [07:36] *** annamalai left [07:46] *** soverysour left [07:50] *** annamalai joined [07:51] *** soverysour joined [07:52] *** dakkar joined [07:56] *** Ekho left [07:57] *** sibl joined [07:58] *** soverysour left [08:04] apogee_ntv: but is that something you think should be part of the Selkie distro, so I should create an PR with that, or should I create a new distro (Selkie::UI) for that? [08:08] *** Ekho joined [08:16] *** sibl left [08:19] *** sibl joined [08:29] *** soverysour joined [08:29] *** soverysour left [08:29] *** soverysour joined [08:32] *** topnep left [08:34] *** topnep joined [08:42] *** soverysour left [08:51] *** soverysour joined [09:00] *** librasteve_ left [09:19] *** sibl left [09:19] *** sibl joined [09:24] *** sibl left [09:43] Voldenet: many thanks … I think the Junction wins in terms of code clarity [09:44] *** librasteve_ joined [09:44] *** sibl joined [09:47] *** soverysour left [09:47] *** soverysour joined [09:50] *** dpk left [10:00] *** sibl left [10:05] *** Aedil joined [10:12] *** soverysour left [10:21] *** soverysour joined [10:21] *** soverysour left [10:21] *** soverysour joined [10:23] *** annamalai left [10:38] *** topnep left [10:39] *** topnep joined [10:46] *** soverysour left [11:00] *** soverysour joined [11:06] *** Aedil left [11:20] *** annamalai joined [11:24] *** sibl joined [11:34] *** sibl left [11:40] *** soverysour left [11:54] *** defaultxr left [11:55] *** ShimmerFairy left [11:55] *** rnddim joined [11:55] *** rjbs left [11:56] *** kst`` joined [11:57] *** kst left [11:57] *** ab5tract left [11:57] *** jcallen left [11:58] *** ab5tract joined [11:58] *** librasteve_ left [11:59] *** rjbs joined [12:01] *** defaultxr joined [12:02] *** jcallen joined [12:14] *** rnddim is now known as ShimmerFairy [12:26] SmokeMachine: It's a good question, I think it depends on whether Selkie ends up multi-contributor (my hope) or not. :D [12:31] *** Aedil joined [12:43] *** topnep left [12:44] *** topnep joined [13:08] [This issue is](https://github.com/raku-community-modules/OpenSSL/issues/111) is likely caused by https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dc5e9452e0ea40ccc7636ab74bbe3dfa1cba4108 with the problem being there is a OpenSSL::Stack module declaration that contains a OpenSSL::Stack class declaration, and presumably relying on the old behavior [13:09] ok, so blin should probably pock that up? [13:10] *pick [13:10] yeah it certianly will [13:10] i have an idea for a fix, but first i have $work [13:10] ++ugexe [13:44] *** kylese left [13:45] *** kylese joined [14:13] I was talking to someone who is familiar with Posit's R-Shiny, which can use Markdown templates to generate interactive interfaces. Any markup language is fine with me. [14:20] *** donaldh left [14:51] apogee_ntv: as an outsider, I suggest to add SmokeMachine PR to your Selkie distribution, then bingo multi author :-) [14:53] *** [r4] left [15:00] librasteve: He didn't send a PR yet, just proposition (I think), but yes getting more authors would be good. :D [15:13] i kind of wonder though if it can't be fixed [15:13] OpenSSL expects OpenSSL::Stack::OpenSSL::Stack to exist as OpenSSL::Stack [15:13] presumably other distributions do the same thing [15:15] https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/5854 [15:15] "Note that the old compiler frontend is broken in almost the same way! The only difference is that instead of throwing the Redeclaration exception, it silently replaces the module with the class:" [15:16] so i guess we have to decide if we should break things to fix this, or if we need to emulate the broken behavior in rakuast [15:17] by "break things to fix this" i mean we accept the current rakudo PR that fixes 5854 (and is currently merged) but breaks OpenSSL and other things that depend on that broken behavior [15:46] ye olde bug compatibility [15:51] maybe we could emit some type of deprecation/warning for the old behavior as a way of avoiding carrying it into rakuast [15:51] something like "class OpenSSL::Stack replaces enclosing module OpenSSL::Stack in the [15:51] outer stash. This is probably not what you want; prefer `unit class OpenSSL::Stack;` or choose different names." [15:54] actually im not sure if that is a good idea [15:54] since if the author makes the suggested changes then their code won't work anymore until rakuast is default [16:14] *** soverysour joined [16:23] huh maybe there is a way to rewrite existing code to work in all scenarios. in this case turning `unit module OpenSSL::Stack; class OpenSSL::Stack {...}` into a single `unit class OpenSSL::Stack` declaration [16:25] *** librasteve_ joined [16:27] *** donaldh joined [16:34] *** dakkar left [17:05] *** abraxxa left [17:29] *** merp left [17:31] *** merp joined [18:10] yeah i think that would work. we revert my fix to the old backend only, and then we detect (in the old backend) when we silently overwrite the namespace and emit a worry similar to what i suggested above with OpenSSL that tells them to use the full namespace (which will work on the old backend and the new frontend). we would continue to not support the silent rewrite in rakuast [18:11] *** abraxxa joined [18:14] *** annamalai left [18:15] *** annamalai joined [18:18] blin showed 81 failures due to this commit [18:18] (on #raku-dev) [18:18] https://gist.githubusercontent.com/coke/0a5f70703ba4fa2370923afd8de8332d/raw/247b90080370ff523cfcc172e846de7d658a287b/shortlist.txt [18:19] right, im not too surprised. but they are relying on buggy behavior and could be rewritten correctly [18:20] for sure... but with 81 modules failing, it feels like this change will need a language level barrrier [18:20] so only 6.e would do the correctv behaviour [18:20] whether on the old or the new backend [18:22] <[Coke]> if it was a smaller number we could do PRs to each of the modules. [18:22] <[Coke]> 81 is a lot. [18:22] yeah, and who knows what it would break that is *not* in the ecosystem [18:22] right, what im suggesting is 1) reverting my old frontend change only 2) having the old frontend detect the problematic scenario and emit a worry/deprecation message telling them to use e.g. unit OpenSSL::Stack instead of module OpenSSL::Stack; class OpenSSL::Stack { };`, and finally that we won't support the silent shadowing in the new frontend (i.e. 6.e) [18:23] fwiw, I would be in favour of reverting both backend for now [18:23] to give us more time to think of a proper solution [18:24] the proper solution is what is implemented now [18:24] https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/5854 see nines comments [18:25] supporting the broken behavior in the new front end is not a proper solution for example [18:26] I agree there's an issue... but it also feels like we can only fix this in 6.e, and 6.d and earlier will need to continue to support the old (broken) behaviour [18:29] in my mind any behavior expectations in rakuast is already gated on 6.e but thats arguable. however the longer we wait to nag the ecosystem to fix their code the longer it will be until the rakuast can reasonable be used. [18:31] It would be nice to get those modules broken down by author, I can see one of mine on there that'll need updating. [18:31] Oh, 3 [18:31] Ah, possibly broken because Cro::HTTP is. [18:32] yeah, anything depending on OpenSSL [18:32] <[Coke]> the author is listed in that shortlist.txt file. [18:33] <[Coke]> it's just not sorted that way [18:33] <[Coke]> if you search for zef:apogee you'll find them [18:33] <[Coke]> (3) [18:34] what is the shortlist.txt file [18:34] or where rather [18:36] <[Coke]> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/coke/0a5f70703ba4fa2370923afd8de8332d/raw/247b90080370ff523cfcc172e846de7d658a287b/shortlist.txt [18:36] ugexe: note that RakuAST defaults to 6.e, but would still need to support 6.d behaviour is so requested [18:36] *if [18:36] <[Coke]> just the headlines from the blin run (none of the test output, etc.) [18:38] <[Coke]> weird. I see Temp::Path's URL in there should be https://raku.land/cpan:UFOBAT/Temp::Path [18:39] *** annamalai left [18:40] *** annamalai joined [18:41] yeah most of those look like they make network requests, i.e. likely depend on OpenSSL [18:42] ugexe: if you have an OpenSSL fix, then maybe that should be pushed and another blin run done [18:42] before deciding to revert your fixes [18:50] no branch yet, but https://gist.github.com/ugexe/3ecaa9afdcd9ce103ed947793bb89060 is what it should be [19:00] https://github.com/raku-community-modules/OpenSSL/pull/112 [19:01] *** [r4] joined [19:08] *** havochunter left [19:37] meh i can probably just add the buggy behavior to rakuast and gate the correct behavior on both frontends in an hour or two after work [19:42] which makes sense to me now after the "note that RakuAST defaults to 6.e, but would still need to support 6.d behaviour is so requested" comment [20:04] *** librasteve_ left [20:25] *** [r4] left [20:59] *** soverysour left [21:09] *** Aedil left [21:15] *** abraxxa left [21:54] *** tobs left [22:47] *** tobs joined [22:53] *** soverysour joined [22:57] *** Sgeo joined [22:57] *** soverysour left