[00:40] *** librasteve_ left [01:14] *** kylese left [01:14] *** hulk joined [01:35] *** topnep left [01:37] *** topnep joined [02:15] *** hulk left [02:15] *** kylese joined [03:24] *** vasko4535586 left [03:28] *** vasko4535586 joined [03:38] *** megeve_ left [03:41] *** topnep left [03:41] *** topnep joined [06:04] *** Aedil joined [07:51] *** topnep left [07:53] *** topnep joined [08:01] *** Aedil left [08:04] SmokeMachine: works for me, but I've peeked at the code – add some UI framework to the prompt or else you're going to get unmaintainable spaghetti with tons of vanilla js [08:06] for some reason AI tools don't mind writing 2000 lines of js instead of 300 lines of vue [09:06] works for me - may I share at https://slangify.org/playground for now? [this is a work in progress site ... the idea is to do something similar to https://langium.org/playground/ and have a place to showcase all Raku DLS goodness ... so I think all I need to do is figure out how to wrap your code as an Air::Plugin and then we can host it there (perhaps need some safeguards as we try to spread the word) [09:06] ] [09:07] actually this morning I was just going to try and make a web version of what you have done already ;-) [09:20] Sure. There are a few changes I still plan on doing there… [09:22] I’m thinking to get the ast of the code and die if there are any node not related to grammar to make it a bit safer… [09:27] *** librasteve_ joined [09:28] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Kwb4x6Tp/Screenshot+2026-05-10+at+10.27.25.png [09:28] omg [09:29] just taught me to change to <.ws> - amazing [09:31] in fact I think the match output is MVP level (ideally I would add in the Action also and have a text output - so two new panes) ... and the raku hiliting in the Grammar pane is cool [09:33] fixed indent (my bad) https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/aWcevgn8/Screenshot+2026-05-10+at+10.33.13.png [09:39] it would be very cool if the STRING pane could also be hilited according to the token / rule names in the Grammar (and maybe strings and literals) - in other words same hiliter as the GRAMMAR pane, but throw in a new colour for the GRAMMAR token / ruke names??? [09:40] ok - its "live" [09:41] meh, if you're executing the code in raku anyway, you probably can't assume it's safe – nqp-js would be probably better fit [09:41] even if you validate the grammar, grammars itself can compute a lot [09:42] have to go to https://slangify.org and click the nav item for now ... bear in mind that the current home page is just a throw-away (to illustrate my recent blog post) going forward it will have (much better) content [09:45] *** Sgeo left [09:47] what about running in a sandbox process (or vm container) and checking for death every couple of mins? may want to bump that process down the pri level too [09:54] librasteve_: now that's starable: http://187.77.178.93:3001/?g=dG9rZW4lMjBUT1AlMjAlMjAlMjAlMjAlMjAlMjAlMjAlN0IlMjAlM0NsZXR0ZXIlM0UlMkIlMjAlN0QlMEF0b2tlbiUyMGxldHRlciUyMCUyMCUyMCUyMCU3QiUyMCUzQ3Zvd2VsJTNFJTIwJTdDJTdDJTIwJTNDY29uc29uYW50JTNFJTIwKiolMjAxLi4yJTIwJTdEJTBBdG9rZW4lMjB2b3dlbCUyMCUyMCUyMCUyMCUyMCU3QiUyMCUzQyU1QmFlaW91JTVEJTNFJTIwJTdEJTBBdG9rZW4lMjBjb25zb25hbnQlMjAlN0IlMjAlM0MlNUJiY2RmZ2hqa2xtbnBxcnN0dnd4eXolNUQlM0UlMjAlN0Q=&s=aGVsbG8= [09:57] I'm running it inside docker [10:00] yeah I put a cheeky while True {} in the GRAMMAR box in one window - I would say the front end is well behaved (both browsers tell you they are reconnecting) and the back end recovered when I deleted the bad code - so some kind of process box should work with a watcher imo (but I am not a security expert) - the whole site (if we host on my server) is in a VM already too - so I think that DoS is the main risk, more against user errors than [10:00] malicious folks) - thoughts / concerns? [10:07] generally you can't any run user code in backend safely and docker is not a security tool [10:08] I asked open code to run the grammar execution inside a different container with a timeout... let's see how well it goes... [10:08] I'm not saying it's easy to run copyfail inside raku grammar, but it's possible [10:15] as a matter of fact, VMs are not a security tool either, securely running any remote code is always risky [10:15] if we can keep the risk modest and recover (or at least notify) then I am happy to try this (on slangify.org - or host on another machine) ... specifically not raku.org ... tbh I think that all web sandboxes are a potential nightmare - look at the shared code on glot.io for example [10:16] shareable ++ , url length is a tad scary though! [10:17] url is just urlcomponent encoded base64 of the grammar [10:18] and string [10:18] yeah - I thought is maybe - well scary is as scary does [10:18] I like the idea that no server side storage needed [10:19] well, full link in compilerexplorer is even longer, it's not even base64-encoded [10:21] maybe if the code was compressed first, link length would be more tolerable [10:23] nah, it's not really helping - gzip/zstd both give you 170 base64 characters, it's still scary [10:34] https://slangify.org/ [10:34] (still a wip!!) [10:36] and another "small" request - please can the MATCH/TRACE pane get 1/2 the width when the other is closed [10:40] *** vasko4535586 left [10:45] it was doing that... I asked to change... I can revert it... [11:03] tx [11:03] librasteve_: re slangify.org: why copy all of the python boilerplate in Raku ? [11:06] okaay - didn't think I had - can you be specific about which block(s) - I guess I left the render block untouched and if that is the one you mean - a gist or a PR would be very welcome [11:07] fwiw I want the parser to load an object (thus the Actionable module) ... since going forward I envision class Invoice {method pdf {...} method html {...}} [11:18] -or- maybe my approach is muddle-headed and I should just render the Match ... hmmm lemme try that [11:25] https://gist.github.com/lizmat/e59c97d9ca14bf31fd5da7b5e96650f7 [11:25] basically, use a heredoc for the render, and add some utility methods [11:38] that's great - will fix - many thanks!! [11:39] ¶afk for a bit [12:28] hm, but isn't the approach with building large array and then joining it faster? [12:28] In a lot of languages such approach doesn't precompute length, but incrementally increases buffer size multiple times, so I'm surprised [12:30] (ofc, I don't actually know how it works underneath) [12:55] *** annamalai left [12:55] *** annamalai joined [12:58] Huh, so I have compared these and the result is exactly the same [12:58] 584/s vs 583/s, so there's insignificant difference which otherwise doesn't matter [12:59] in rakuast's case, simple .join() performs better [13:00] nevermind, in the long test it's exactly the same [13:01] (I know that nobody asked, but I like numbers) [13:37] librasteve_: is the hiding looking better now? [13:38] perfect! [13:40] it's also timing out the requests and caching the result of the 20 last code requests [13:41] <[Coke]> .ask el_che - hey, can you help resurrect the docker builds on raku/blin? [13:41] [Coke], I'll pass your message to El_Che [13:42] <[Coke]> .tell el_che they've been dead for about 6 years now. [13:42] [Coke], I'll pass your message to El_Che [14:06] Eh, I wanted to use Selkie – imagine my disappointment when after updating everything and finally installing things I realized that it doesn't work under tmux… ;| [14:07] it works under tmux under screen though, I'm not going to think about it too much :> [14:28] phew [14:33] heh, but 24-bit colors don't work under screen it seems sadly [14:33] understandable but disappointing [14:35] might try fiddling with the TERM env var, but I think notcurses has some known open issues wrt tmux, including the color thing [14:39] yeah, and since it's debian, the versions aren't probably the newest possible - I bet git-built notcurses + tmux may work actually [14:40] I remember waiting very long time for truetype colors inside terminal [14:52] notcurses has open issues and unmerged pull requests because of brokenness under tmux, so I wouldn't count on even the latest builds to work correctly. also looks like activity on notcurses has been really light in the past year [14:55] now that the data finally loaded from github, it looks like it hasn't hardly seen any activity since early 2022 [15:13] eh, so it's fairly risky library at the moment [15:35] *** abraxxa joined [15:35] *** Aedil joined [15:36] *** abraxxa left [15:41] ok - I did a comparison and heredoc lost (very narrowly) - other points taken on board https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/znMpj81v [15:48] *** belluzj joined [15:52] it would be kind-of neat if we had a default .fmt for user-defined classes that let you put the names of attributes and methods in the format string, and that would also work as-expected for Positional and Associative of X ... :S [15:53] well I guess .fmt is probably not the right peg to hang this off of [15:54] maybe not very fitting to put this into core either? [15:55] *** belluzj left [16:04] `perldoc perlform` comes to mind [16:06] https://github.com/japhb/Text-MiscUtils also has tables / columnisation [16:06] https://raku.land/zef:raku-community-modules/Form needs some TLC [16:14] from the "this blogpost could've been a toot" department, my 2c on failures: https://avuserow.bearblog.dev/rakus-failures-are-a-great-success/ [16:14] *** belluzj joined [16:16] oh that's cool. i've been a bit hot-and-cold on Failure [16:17] I wonder if some kind of tooling to help figure out where failures can come from and where they would get triggered could help with the issues I think of [16:20] I'm in Golang world for my day job so this is a nice middle ground between errors-as-values and exceptions IMO [16:22] *** belluzj left [16:22] *** belluzj joined [16:23] But I can imagine that they aren't great if you let the values propagate all over the code base [16:24] *** belluzj left [16:25] avuserow: nice, design reminds me of the friendly orange glow: was that intentional? [16:26] It's one of their built-in templates, but for me the classic monochrome monitor is orange, not green, so that part is intentional [16:26] *** belluzj joined [16:27] *** belluzj left [16:28] *** MasterDuke joined [16:29] lizmat: just searched, is that a reference to PLATO? If so that's before my time but PLATO is from my alma mater so that's another connection for me [16:33] I have wanted to have something comparable to how you have to annotate methods in Java with the types of exceptions they can throw; in raku it can feel a little bit loose [16:35] @librasteve you can use this for Raku web site example - https://gist.github.com/melezhik/ac53ef21e30703567710c3715385736c [17:30] *** Sgeo joined [17:33] weekly: https://avuserow.bearblog.dev/rakus-failures-are-a-great-success/ [17:33] librasteve, Noted! (weekly) [17:36] wow, a blog where you can simply upvote without all the logging in ceremony [17:37] @librasteve and this one - https://gist.github.com/melezhik/a0341dcf7475e4a4c9974c49a9c123b7 [17:37] Both maybe out under security compliance checks [17:45] btw, does that check handle `Include /etc/ssh/sshd_config.d/*.conf` too? [17:46] it's kinda important because vps vendors simply add the file especially saying `PasswordAuthentication yes` [17:47] hahaha yeah I saw that once :D [17:47] sshd has a flag to parse all its config files and spit out the final assembled configuration, including following the actual rules it has for priorities / overrides [17:48] sshd -T [17:49] in fact, many programs have something similar, and it's a fantastic QoL feature that more programs should get [17:51] yeah, nginx has exactly the same flag [17:53] wonders if exegesis & apocalypses should be in Raku CCM? [17:54] melezhik: thanks … I have no way of choosing one or the other … please tell me your preferred one [17:54] *** justache left [17:55] I’ll make a PR and request some reviews… [17:58] *** justache joined [18:01] Yeah , guess we can just feed sshd -T into the check [18:02] @librasteve you can pick the first one ( sudoers ) [18:02] ok - thanks [18:03] It depends on how many space sparrow has on the examples page , but even one example is fine either way me ) [18:03] either way me -> fine with me [18:04] Typo [18:04] is it similar to all the other examples in raku.org? [18:05] (the main page is the “examples page” and I want you to propose something that you think is going to fit in [18:05] ) [18:08] *** itaipu left [18:11] I don’t know , it depends on what do you mean by similar . I guess in a sense it’s small snippet - yes, but it’s not pure Raku- it’s Sparrow task check DSL with invocation of Raku handler [18:12] avuserow [18:12] indeed it was :-) [18:13] Go Illini! [18:13] Maybe you can add security tab here ? [18:19] *** Guest32 joined [18:21] *** Guest32 left [18:45] librasteve_: what do you think about this? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ErsKrHqL/image.png [19:00] that’s great - does shareable bring in both the GRAMMAR and ACTIONS? [19:18] librasteve_: [19:18] http://187.77.178.93:3001/?g=dW5pdCUyMGdyYW1tYXIlMjBNeUdyYW1tYXIlM0IlMEElMEF0b2tlbiUyMFRPUCUyMCUyMCUyMCUyMCUyMCUyMCUyMCU3QiUyMCUzQ2xldHRlciUzRSUyQiUyMCU3RCUwQXRva2VuJTIwbGV0dGVyJTIwJTIwJTIwJTIwJTdCJTIwJTNDdm93ZWwlM0UlMjAlN0MlN0MlMjAlM0Njb25zb25hbnQlM0UlMjAlN0QlMEF0b2tlbiUyMHZvd2VsJTIwJTIwJTIwJTIwJTIwJTdCJTIwJTNDJTVCYWVpb3UlNUQlM0UlMjAlN0QlMEF0b2tlbiUyMGNvbnNvbmFudCUyMCU3QiUyMCUzQyU1QmJjZGZnaGprbG1ucHFyc3R2d3h5eiU1RCUzRSUyMCU3RA%3D%3D&s=aGVsbG8 [19:18] %3D&a=Y2xhc3MlMjBCbGElMjAlN0IlMEElMDloYXMlMjAlMjQubGV0dGVyJTNCJTBBJTA5aGFzJTIwJTI0LnR5cGUlM0IlMEElN0QlMEFjbGFzcyUyMEFjdCUyMCU3QiUwQSUwOW1ldGhvZCUyMFRPUCglMjQlMkYpJTIwJTdCJTBBJTA5JTA5bWFrZSUyMCU0MCUzQ2xldHRlciUzRS5tYXAlM0ElMjAqLm1hZGUlMEElMDklN0QlMEElMDltZXRob2QlMjBsZXR0ZXIoJTI0JTJGKSUyMCU3QiUwQSUwOSUwOW1ha2UlMjBCbGEubmV3JTNBJTBBJTA5JTA5JTA5JTNBdHlwZSglMjQlM0N2b3dlbCUzRSUyMCUzRiUzRiUyMCUyMnZvd2VsJTIyJTIwISElMjAlMjJjb25zb25hbnQlMjIpJTJDJTBBJTA5J [19:18] TA5JTA5JTNBbGV0dGVyKH4oJTI0JTNDdm93ZWwlM0UlMkYlMkYlMjQlM0Njb25zb25hbnQlM0UpKSUwQSUwOSU3RCUwQSU3RA%3D%3D [19:18] it broke it in several messages... :( [19:19] lol [19:19] https://shorturl.at/Xq9fE [19:21] yeah - think we gonna need a shorturl service - but only really need to prime the various examples so can do that by hand [19:25] maybe I'll need to add an sqlite to that... [19:49] https://shorturl.at/dIhJx [19:50] this is very close (I had to rewrite the Action) - but the MADE box seems not to like \n [19:56] librasteve_: should it be loading this?https://shorturl.at/dIhJx [19:57] librasteve_: should it be loading this? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/eeIUFoZo/CleanShot%202026-05-10%20at%2020.57.06%402x.png [19:57] sorry must &afk [19:58] :+1 [19:58] 👍 [20:53] *** Aedil left [21:33] *** MasterDuke left [22:31] *** topnep left [22:31] *** topnep joined [22:48] m: sub f { my $x = Failure.new(X::AdHoc.new(:payload("boom"))); $x.so; $x }; f().handled; module M:ver(f()) { }; say M.^ver.gist; [22:48] ugexe, rakudo-moar 13fcc50e7: OUTPUT: «vHANDLED.boom.in.code.at.tmp.upOu_wWMyS.line.1.…» [22:48] ugexe, Full output: https://gist.github.com/4b90d469684fdb744748278bc398ab98 [23:14] i think im going to make that throw in rakuast [23:19] librasteve_: http://187.77.178.93:3001/d85043c9d35d88b7b5854072b6ca08682a64e1a7