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[00:38] <Voldenet> `random-variate(dist => 'bernoulli', :p(0.3), size => 1000)` looks nice but it'd be needed to be built into the library, which would be tedious

[00:42] <Voldenet> I was going on about having a namespace, for which namespace would have precedence over other usable symbols

[00:42] <Voldenet> `class Thing::One is Thing { }; class Other::One is Other { }; sub foo(Thing x) { }; sub bar(Other x) { }; bar(One.new); foo(One.new)`

[00:43] <Voldenet> it's really weird to read in the context, because I used colliding symbols and meaningless names

[00:43] <Voldenet> hm, I could use Dist::Uniform and Noise::Uniform perhaps

[00:44] <Voldenet> but that'd be property of Noise using uniform dist, no ideas come to mind

[00:44] <Voldenet> either way, that does simplify the code

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[00:49] <alati> hi all... I hope things are well with you

[00:50] <Voldenet> same, good day to you

[00:50] <Voldenet> I mean, it's 3am where I sit, but it's still day

[00:50] <alati> :) good day

[00:50] <alati> same but... you know, reminiscing and such

[00:51] <alati> I remember Util was pretty active before. Perhaps it's not the time of day or week day to be on irc

[00:51] <alati> it's nice that the community still has a prescence here though...

[00:53] <alati> anyway, I shared on #-dev I'm working on using raku for daily tasks. definitely I feel like using it for a custom DSL and bdd work would be fun so

[00:53] <alati> honestly I came because I was thinking of Util

[00:56] <alati> but I do think raku would be extremely useful in qa work...

[01:05] <Voldenet> yeah, there are features that severely reduce complexity, people don't mention it often but ability of not using () for function call really makes code a lot nicer

[01:06] <alati> kinda funny you mention the lack of () because honestly that sort of boggles my mind still

[01:06] <[Coke]> Util still works with raku. I assume he'll be giving another talk at the next raku/perl con for NA in CAN in 2027

[01:06] <alati> I suppose it's only been this week I got back in to raku

[01:06] <[Coke]> he's not often on irc though

[01:06] <alati> :D

[01:06] <alati> well, good news overall then

[01:07] <alati> thank you both for being available

[01:08] <Voldenet> well, dropping () is non-mandatory, but it feels right in a lot of places

[01:08] <Voldenet> though you can write java in raku as well

[01:09] <Voldenet> or rather, code that structurally resembles java

[01:09] <alati> that's true, I admit I got fairly comfortable with leaving () out in a lot of python after some years but it still getting used to it

[01:09] <alati> originally I was on ##php in the old node

[01:09] <alati> and knowing raku can be like java in the regard.... could be interesting for my work. not personally but in the industry

[01:09] <Voldenet> welp, I used some python before and () wasn't too bad

[01:10] <alati> I can't say I work in java at all these days, I'm just helpdesk

[01:10] <alati> automation and ticketing

[01:10] <Voldenet> I'm glad that new compilers enable embedded raku scripting

[01:10] <alati> oO

[01:11] <Voldenet> (rakupp and mutsu, both)

[01:11] <alati> ah yeah mutsu

[01:12] <alati> err... I could search it but just to speak it to the ether here, raku + wasm for browser stuff?

[01:12] <alati> I've got a friend doing some webgl and I guess vulkan things in browser

[01:14] <alati> trying to argue that raku could be helpful in the project ;) but that's just me being obsessive likely

[01:14] <[Coke]> anton: Data::Generators

[01:14] <[Coke]> died in a blin run with:

[01:14] <Voldenet> Well, rakudo on moarvm was compiled to wasm and working, but it was a bit slow

[01:14] <[Coke]> [Data::Generators] # Failed test at t/05-random-variate.rakutest line 72^M

[01:14] <[Coke]> [Data::Generators] #     expected approximately: 0.4^M

[01:14] <[Coke]> [Data::Generators] #                        got: 0.3884^M

[01:14] <[Coke]> [Data::Generators] # maximum absolute tolerance: 0.01^M

[01:14] <[Coke]> [Data::Generators] # actual absolute difference: 0.0116^M

[01:15] <Voldenet> otoh rakupp and mutsu both give you some js wrappers, I'm betting the libs they provide are using wasm

[01:15] <[Coke]> assuming that's a flapper

[01:15] <Voldenet> the https://raku.online/ one and https://tokuhirom.github.io/mutsu/playground.html one

[01:15] <alati> I like it

[01:16] <alati> oO

[01:16] <Voldenet> yeah, they both are using wasm, just checked

[01:16] <alati> bit of an exciting feeling

[01:17] <alati> can't believe it's actually 417 now... sleep schedule gone awry

[01:17] <alati> i blame andor

[01:18] <Voldenet> and I've planned to do this on weekend :>

[01:18] <alati> :D

[01:19] <Voldenet> that's what weekends are for

[01:19] <alati> I suppose they are

[01:19] <alati> I feel soon every day will be a weekend for me however

[01:19] <alati> office closure

[01:19] <alati> nothing official on my position which is interesting

[01:20] <alati> not to detract, weekends are indeed where the mind wanders

[01:20] <alati> it's nice

[01:25] <alati> and I'm happy to hear Util is active in general

[01:28] <alati> I have yet another silly idea: selinux management tools but in raku

[01:28] <alati> I swear I'll stop it's just... obsession

[01:28] <alati> 20 years and I'm still behaving pretty much the same way

[01:29] <Voldenet> well I've used iptables for a long while

[01:29] <alati> and here I'm still learning iptables

[01:29] <Voldenet> and the syntax is far from user friendly

[01:29] <alati> yea but now? nftables 

[01:29] <alati> I think iptables is nice enough to translate but it's still 2 different things right?

[01:29] <Voldenet> yeah, nftables are so much better

[01:30] <Voldenet> for a lot of features it's mostly just new syntax

[01:30] <alati> I do keep hearing that... at work we still have deb9 soon to be decommissioned but

[01:30] <alati> you know

[01:30] <Voldenet> turns out that "just new syntax" is a lot

[01:30] <alati> oh yeah, speak better work things out

[01:30] <Voldenet> people have been hating on genAI, but I like it

[01:31] <alati> same same

[01:31] <Voldenet> I can now, instead of printing things to console and having my head hurt, just make a nice UI for it, with d3 graphs and so on

[01:31] <alati> I tried local models but you still have to build a rapport on with them

[01:31] <alati> I admit using chatgpt

[01:31] <alati> and mistral

[01:32] <Voldenet> local models work, but hardware I have is very limited compared to what claude, chatgpt, copilot or deepseek have

[01:32] <Voldenet> eh, I also use built-in google one sometimes, but it's very limited

[01:32] <Voldenet> I think it's gemini flash

[01:33] <Voldenet> actually worse than local models

[01:33] <alati> :D that's a new one for me, cool though

[01:33] <alati> worse xD

[01:33] <alati> sorry to hear

[01:33] <Voldenet> But it's good if you only need answer to a simple question

[01:33] <alati> hm sort of a simpler rag I suppose

[01:33] <Voldenet> like "i don't remember name of the tool that did X"

[01:33] <alati> I did try with chatgpt making a simpler nn/nlp/rag modeling

[01:34] <alati> yes!

[01:34] <alati> even worse, the name of a song

[01:34] <Voldenet> I remember being shocked how well grok did with media

[01:34] <alati> I have recovered certain classics that I vaguely remember and it just happens to help me find them

[01:34] <alati> indeed a fun tool

[01:38] <alati> hm

[01:38] <alati> the world we live in I suppose :>

[01:41] <alati> ...just one more maybe?

[01:41] <alati> proxmox has some sources online and it relies on some perl modules

[01:41] <alati> could upgrade it to use raku instead :)))

[01:42] <alati> pmx9 hah...

[01:42] <alati> but seriously I have rediscovered  raku language and I think it is inspirational

[01:42] <alati> for me at least

[01:43] <alati> especially with DSL, I'd rather sandbox some code I don't trust and have a system to audit

[01:47] <Voldenet> yes it feels nice to write in, feels a bit like ruby but more familiar syntax

[01:50] <alati> please forgive me for an irrational disgust of ruby

[01:50] <alati> I tried it for a few weeks not out of work obligation

[01:50] <alati> it's different

[01:51] <alati> would rather a different management system

[01:52] <alati> it's a little funny because I helped train an old colleague in coldfusion but he then went on to ruby for medical and... you know more power to him

[01:53] <alati> I just couldn't

[01:53] <alati> inflexibility is a problem 

[01:53] <alati> maybe

[01:53] <alati> I need to be nice to myself

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[02:02] <alati> is it ok to ask about the perlmonks site?

[02:02] <alati> whats with the ssl issue

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[02:28] <[Coke]> coldfusion? there aren't many of us around. :|

[02:29] <alati> :')

[02:30] <alati> I can't actually admit to even doing modules, just basic cf stuff

[02:31] <alati> I swear I'm only awake currently because coffe and pizza

[02:31] <alati> 5am is the magic hour

[02:37] <alati> sant'e

[02:42] <alati> also because of a poor schedule

[02:42] <alati> need to cron my life

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[02:48] <alati> small reboot

[02:58] <alati> hm... I thought it was small

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[06:43] <disbot> <jubilatious1_98524> @Voldenet , from the R-help pages: "dunif gives the density,   punif is the cumulative distribution function, and   qunif is the quantile function of the uniform distribution.   runif generates random deviates."

[06:50] <disbot> <jubilatious1_98524> Maybe something like this? https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/790660/removing-braces-statements-containing-nested-braces-inside/790681#790681

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[12:46] <disbot> <antononcube> @Coke Since Rakudo does not have reproducible random number generation the random data generation tests of "Data::Generators" occasionally fail. Usually, a second run makes those tests past.

[12:46] <disbot> <antononcube> I can change the test files to exactly, that.

[12:47] <disbot> <antononcube> On the other hand, Rakupp does have reproducible random number generation -- with the same random seed the the same random number sequence is obtained.

[12:52] <disbot> <antononcube> @Volenet "[...] Dist::Uniform and Noise::Uniform [...]" -- these interesting designs, but they are not telling much. Think about a "standard" data scientist that has to read Raku code in order to understand certain analysis document (article or blog post). Names like "Dist::Uniform" and "Noise::Uniform" are too ambiguous.

[12:54] <disbot> <antononcube> This statement is pretty clear:  random-variate(UniformDistribution.new(min => 10, max => 200), size => 1000) 

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[14:05] <Geth> ¦ docker: 72aa026f1f | (Anton Oks)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | .github/workflows/update_release.yml

[14:05] <Geth> ¦ docker: update_release.yml: Re-addint (organizational) token

[14:05] <Geth> ¦ docker: review: https://github.com/rakudo/docker/commit/72aa026f1f

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[20:58] <Voldenet> of course, but I'm not sure if I'd design the api for "cumbersome to write, wordy and descriptive, but obvious"

[20:58] <Voldenet> both use cases make sense

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