6.2.10 released! xrl.us/hxnb | geoffb's column (/. ed): xrl.us/hxhk | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org | paste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 or sial.org/pbot/perl6 | www.geeksunite.net
Set by integral on 25 October 2005.
dduncan I for one welcome the new metamodel integration 00:01
autrijus ...and concurrency too 00:06
autrijus commits s17 early draft
sub bomb is atomic { ... }; sub path is critical { ... };
eric256 lol 00:07
rafl_ :-)
autrijus the hs runcore will get a head start
azuroth I just changed the pods and kwik... is the one on pugscode.org automatically converted to html or something?
autrijus as it's all from GHC.Conc ;) 00:08
but liz also got uncountable numbers of Thread::* modules on CPAN to emulate this
so p5 runtime shouldn't be _that_ bad either
azuroth: which url?
azuroth hmm. search.cpan.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs/lib...s/hack.pod - it's linked to from pugscode's index 00:09
autrijus ahh.
yeah it's pod2html of the latst release
so your fix will wait till 6.28.0
azuroth ahh, okay 00:10
Khisanth hmm how long does it usually take to compile ghc?
svnbot6 r7787 | autrijus++ | * S17 draft, sketch notes, with Liz
r7788 | azuroth++ | Fixed some grammaticos and wrongness in documentation
autrijus Khisanth: if you insist... you can do that. on my laptop is 5hr 00:11
Khisanth !
eric256 (grammaticos and wrongness)++ lol 00:12
azuroth ;-p
what are some easy TODOs? ^_^ 00:17
autrijus in hs space? 00:18
azuroth yeah - or anything, really
eric256 you can help link tests to documentation ;)
autrijus I'm actually going to sleep soonish -- ask the channel for ideas :) 00:19
I can use help implementing both the conc and objsp stuff, but more details tomorrow :)
azuroth okay, cool
link tests to documentation, eh?
eric256 yea. L<S12/"Heading" /regex to specific spot in paragraph/> tests.pugscode.org 00:20
stevan autrijus: I just finished reading the "Ruby in C" section of the PickAxe book,.. it was actually very helpful,... (and much cleaner than XS) 00:21
autrijus good.
and it would make sense to compare to YARV arch
stevan yes
very much so
autrijus which is like, distilled version of the tree reduction semantics
(ruby was tree reduct like pugs-vanilla and p5)
but they are going bytecode as well
stevan ah 00:22
bytecode is so old school though ;)
autrijus ASTs are fine for semantics stuff and static analysis
azuroth eric256: where can I find S12? ;-p
autrijus but for minimal runtime vocab, you want something more restrictive, and stack bytecode is one of the many comparably restrictive ways to achieve that 00:23
eric256 either feather.perl6.nl/~eric256/t_index/Synopsis/ or dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/synopsis.html
autrijus not doing that will result in runtime bloat, like our dear p5vm
;)
(aka, "too many primitives")
stevan autrijus: so should I rethink the P6::Objectspace::Core stuff? 00:24
autrijus stevan: I thought you were going to rethink it anyway :)
stevan yes, but I guess I am asking how radically I am going to rethink it :)
azuroth ahh, ok. thanks
azuroth away
stevan should I lean more towards bytecode??
autrijus stevan: no, I think minimal function call API works better than bytecode 00:25
since they are isomorphic
stevan ok
autrijus but easier to reason with
sorta like the ANF<->SSA duality
also, because we are not really writing VMs.
it would be very much not fun if we have to write either YARV or Parrot.
;)
stevan yes, at least not yet ;)
autrijus nah, not going to :)
we enslave^Wdominate^Wtarget VMs instead 00:26
stevan ponders writing in PIR again,.. then slaps himself
autrijus maybe you can invent a minimal notation for PIR
but then, why not just take the JS, Pike, IO, or whatever notation
(that nests functions and handles objs) 00:27
stevan :)
autrijus but really, the effort would amount to be the same as calling a set of p5 space core funcs
so I fail to see the gain :)
stevan so do you see a usefulness for anything in Core::, or should I svk rm it all ? 00:28
eric256 failes to see what either of you are even talking about. lol ;)
stevan eric256: ObjectSpace :)
autrijus eric256: it's in docs/notes/object_space.txt
eric256 ahhh...and rolles his eyes. ;)
stevan :D
autrijus stevan: the casting stuff are fine 00:29
base type enumeration and coercion rules
those we can't do without anyway
so I don't think they need to go
they are the intrinsics
stevan they need to go? or stay?
autrijus still makes sense Perl6::Val really
stevan sorry didnt see "dont"
autrijus :p
stevan so maybe I just assume these things are my VM primatives then?
or at least thin wrappers around them 00:30
autrijus sure, like the ruby "val" and "num" etc
stevan yeah
autrijus you don't need to reason about them at instruction/coreprim level
they are just there, aye
closing thoughts of the day: 00:33
class Hash { method circumfix:<( )> { say 'Whee!' } }; %ENV(42); 00:34
autrijus waves goodnight :)
stevan nite :)
mugwump shouldn't that be post_circumfix? ;)
autrijus riight ;)
postcircumfix 00:35
svnbot6 r7789 | eric256++ | Test-Catalog: Now highlights multi line tests correctly. 00:39
eric256 hey...i know i can use perl5 modules in perl6....supposidly...anyone know how? 00:50
nm. lol
rafl_ use perl5:Foo?
eric256 yea i kept trying perl5- ...didn't it used to be that? 00:51
rafl_ Not sure. I only know that pugs implements perl5:.
eric256 do you know the new 'use lib? 00:54
misc eric256: use.perl.org/~clkao/journal/24897 i think ? 00:56
eric256 misc .... rafl had it right.. much have changed since then 00:57
Juerd: ping 01:03
r0nny_ re 01:12
rafl_: ping? 01:13
rafl_ r0nny_: pong
r0nny_ got svk now
kinda lost in the manpage - cant see, how to get a p4 repo with this 01:14
rafl_ mirror p4:user@host:1666://path/... DEPOTPATH 01:17
r0nny_ hmm 01:18
eric256 has to ask 01:32
what is p4?
rafl_ Some non-free RCS. 01:33
tewk p4 is Perforce 01:44
eric256 hmmm. zip is documented to use ; instead of , .... anyone know if that has officialy changed. pugs supports , not ; :) 03:19
luqui no, zip really does use ; 03:21
but pugs doesn't support it
so pugs uses ,
eric256 gotcha. ;) why would zip want ; instead of , now that , doesn't flatten
luqui probably: zip(1,2,3;4,5,6) 03:23
and zip(f(); g()), so f and g can be called in list context instead of scalar context
eric256 ; forces list context? 03:24
luqui not necessarily (actually maybe, I'm not sure)
eric256 the first one would be zip( (1..3), (4..6) ); 03:25
luqui but , definitely doesn't allow list context
because zip(f(), g()), if f and g were called in list context, they would have to be part of the same list
eric256 true. hmmm ; for something other than the end of a statment seems...weird. ;) but i guess if thats the way it is, then i'll deal. ;)
luqui we use it as the "greater comma"
my $matrix = [1,0;0,1]
eric256 okay....second question. why doens't pugs support it yet?
luqui nobody's written it yet? 03:26
and because it's not quite specced
or it wasn't until a week ago
eric256 just wondered if there was some current barrier
lol. gotcha.
stevan_ autrijus: when you backlog,.. this is kind of neat to play with www.atdot.net/yc/compile 03:33
Khisanth heh so perl has three commas now? :) 04:29
dduncan what are the three commas? 04:39
and don't say '=>' because that isn't a comma
pantie1 bouncey bouncey? 05:48
www.livejournal.com/users/clavice_beato/
clavice and I are space amigos 05:49
will you be our space amigos? 05:50
Khisanth ?eval package Foo;
evalbot_7789 undef
Khisanth ?eval package Foo; sub foo { say "foo" } package Main; Foo::foo; 05:51
evalbot_7789 foo bool::true
pantie1 fool, bool true! 05:52
mr T says...
Khisanth ?eval package Foo; sub foo { say caller().package } package Main; Foo::foo; 05:53
evalbot_7789 Main bool::true
Khisanth ?eval $?PUGS_VERSION
evalbot_7789 \"Perl6 User\'s Golfing System, version 6.2.10, October 10, 2005 (r7789)"
pantie1 ?eval $?OS 05:54
evalbot_7789 \"linux"
pantie1 ?eval $*OS
evalbot_7789 \undef
dduncan who is this joker? 06:03
geoffb good morning, nothingmuch 06:19
... and goodnight, all 06:23
nothingmuch hhi ho geoffb 06:45
sleep tight
xinming ?eval exit 08:22
evalbot_7789 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&exit"
xinming :-P
iblechbot: ping 08:31
wolverian ?eval ("a".."c").end 10:39
evalbot_7789 2
liz6 ?eval ('a'..'c').end 10:40
evalbot_7789 2
ods15 ?eval 'a'..'c' 10:41
wolverian (just checking if it really was .end and not .last or something)
evalbot_7789 ("a", "b", "c")
ods15 ?eval 'a'..'aa'
evalbot_7789 ("a",)
ods15 ?eval 'a'..'aaa'
evalbot_7789 ("a",)
ods15 heh
?eval 'aa'..'ba'
evalbot_7789 ("aa", "ab", "ac", "ad", "ae", "af", "ag", "ah", "ai", "aj", "ak", "al", "am", "an", "ao", "ap", "aq", "ar", "as", "at", "au", "av", "aw", "ax", "ay", "az", "ba")
ods15 ?eval 'a1'..'b1'
evalbot_7789 ("a1", "a2", "a3", "a4", "a5", "a6", "a7", "a8", "a9", "b0", "b1")
ods15 ?eval '01'..'10' 10:42
evalbot_7789 ("01", "02", "03", "04", "05", "06", "07", "08", "09", "10")
ods15 ?eval '1'..'10'
evalbot_7789 ("1",)
ods15 cool...
bye
wilx Omg, does Perl6 read minds? :) 10:43
wolverian yes.
liz6 ?eval 1..10 10:44
evalbot_7789 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
liz6 ?eval 1.."10"
evalbot_7789 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
liz6 ?eval "1"..10
evalbot_7789 ("1",)
wolverian that's a bug. :) 10:45
hmm. perhaps $obj.sleep( until => "readable" ); # random thought while reading S17 draft 10:46
liz6 keeping Damians PBP in mind, maybe: 10:47
$obj.sleep( while => "not_readable" ); 10:48
wolverian hmm. 10:49
$obj.sleep_until: { $obj.readable }; # flexible?
er, although that's just the same as '1 until $obj.readable' which is pretty horrid 10:51
liz6 it's the until
that seems to be hard on people's minds
and therefor not recommended in Perl Best Practices...
wolverian right. I haven't read PBP yet, actually :) 10:52
liz6 recommended... 10:53
dduncan I've read it cover to cover ... highly recommended
wolverian I'll try to get my hands on it. 10:54
azuroth evening
dduncan I find it the second most useful perl book of them all, with 'programming perl' being the first
at least at my current stage of experience 10:55
azuroth what book is this?
dduncan perl best practices
kgftr|konobi pbp++ # lots of useful stuff in there, such as indirect method calls being very very bad! 10:56
dduncan of course, people in other situations will likely find different books more useful ... such as Peter Scott's on dealing with other people's horrid code
or the 'learning' ones 10:57
or the domain specific ones
but the classic camel and pbp are my own personal most useful atm
broquaint PBP = Sensibility distilled. 10:59
dduncan indeed ... quite likely to become a defacto standard methinks
at least I'm contributing to that status
as all my new cpan work is or will be mostly conformant 11:00
azuroth I'll have to read it ...
metaperl has anyone convinced Larry to allow /* */ as a multi-line comment for p6? 11:01
wolverian I hate ->get/set accessors. (Class::Std.)
dduncan don't know
wolverian metaperl, not yet. :) 11:02
dduncan I like get/set accessors
wolverian I like lvalue accessors/mutators.
(albeit they suck in perl5.)
dduncan I never used them in my life
wolverian it's the way of the future! :) (C# and Perl6 both use them.) 11:03
liz6 lvalue accessors are not recommended in PBP
wolverian liz6, I know. I understand it's not because of any inherent fault in them, but in the implementation of them in perl5, though.
I might be wrong, since I haven't read PBP.
dduncan they're fine if the values in question can contain any value at all and no error checking is necessary
wolverian dduncan, why? you can easily add type checking. 11:04
dduncan, see, for an example, Attribute::Property on CPAN.
broquaint I think the idea behind not having multi-line comments, metaperl, is that if your comment is taking up multiple lines then it should be in the documentation, hence =pod/=cutthe best way to facilitate multi-line comments.
dduncan oh yes, you mean in perl 6
wolverian dduncan, I mean in both perl5 and perl6.
metaperl broquaint: i see
broquaint That's just my theory, mind you.
dduncan but in that case, you haven't actually got a bare lvalue accessor, as it is wrapped in an object
wolverian dduncan, a closure. :) 11:05
dduncan maybe its just the syntax you like?
wolverian of course it's just the syntax. they are exactly equivalent in other ways to get/set
liz6 wolverian: you're right 11:06
broquaint Not quite, wolverian, as in lvalue you're just boshing a value into a attribute but in the accessor method style you've got paramters and arguments and binding and so forth.
wolverian broquaint, true, but if it's that complex it shouldn't be an accessor/mutator anymore, but a generic method. 11:07
dduncan and there's the error checking thing thats different with vanilla perl 5
wolverian dduncan, yes.
dduncan and that's mainly what pbp was against
broquaint Fair enough, wolverian. 11:08
wolverian dduncan, that's certainly understandable.
dduncan, but CPAN is there for us to use. :)
broquaint But, to be fair, PBP is a sensible approach to programming in perl, and programming in perl isn't always sensible :)
dduncan of course, pbp's ground rule is to get people to do things by choice, rather than by habit 11:09
wolverian always following the rules is not -Ofun :)
broquaint Or should I say the programming with perl isn't always sensible.
dduncan if you have an explicit reason to do something against its recommendations, that's still going with its intent
and using a cpan module to add whatever is such a conscious choice
liz6 indeed 11:10
dduncan good night, past 3am here and all ... 11:13
metaperl good night D
liz6 nightynight... just after noon here... ;-) 11:14
xinming 19:33 here. 11:33
liz6 isn't this great: a truly global effort!
xinming but too few commits. :/ 11:34
Juerd IRC pings are so annoying, and such a waste of time. 12:09
Why do people insist on "$nick: ping", waitfor(pong), "$nick: $question" instead of just beginning with "$nick: $question"? 12:10
02:08 < eric256> Juerd: ping
But he is offline now.
If he had asked a question, I'd be able to email him an answer. 12:11
webmind because someone wants a more direct conversation ?
Juerd assumes he wanted to ask something, not socialize.
webmind could be impatience
Juerd afk 12:12
integral but then there's the people who ask a question, and then ping all the people who answered them last time ... 12:33
broquaint ?eval my $_ = "say q/things/;" eval 13:06
evalbot_7789 Error: unexpected "e" expecting operator, ";" or end of input
broquaint ?eval my $_ = "say q/things/;"; eval
evalbot_7789 undef
broquaint ?eval my $_ = "q/things/;"; eval
evalbot_7789 undef
broquaint ?eval $?PUGS_VERSION 13:07
evalbot_7789 \"Perl6 User\'s Golfing System, version 6.2.10, October 10, 2005 (r7789)"
broquaint Hrm.
svnbot6 r7790 | autrijus++ | * S17: Incoporate suggestion from Austin Frank; s/wait/join/; timer; continuation 13:41
r7791 | autrijus++ | * "is throttled" trait 14:05
Limbic_Region salutations liz6 14:15
liz6 hi L~R! 14:16
Juerd wonders if liz6, like perl6, was designed from scratch 14:18
And if she's implemented with Haskell :)
liz6 I'm implemented with Freckles, actually... 14:19
Juerd Is that turing complete? :)
liz6 Probably not... 14:20
Limbic_Region liz6 how is working with autrijus?
liz6 I always feel like I'm slowing down Autrijus...
but sometimes that's a good thing...
Juerd can imagine
He's incredibly fast :)
liz6 even faster than you, Juerd... ;-) 14:21
Juerd Certainly
autrijus yo :) 14:23
Juerd Is that like io? :) 14:24
autrijus driving fast doesn't matter much if you don't know where to go
and liz6 always know where to go, on S17 :)
Limbic_Region isn't S17 supposed to cover things like coroutines as well?
autrijus Limbic_Region: yes.
and we'll get there
Limbic_Region good
Juerd Nice metaphor
autrijus which is also why we're using Concurrency instead of Threading 14:25
as the synopsis name
because coros are just not very threaded
Limbic_Region right - coros are fancy continuations
autrijus if by "fancy" you mean "supressed and maimed", yes 14:26
liz6 ;-)
Limbic_Region hmmm - no, that's not what I meant
continuations only work from 1 point right?
while a coroutine can continue and then stop again
?
autrijus er no, continuations are the most general of all 14:27
in coro you can only yield into your caller's continuation
while if you have first class continuation, you can invoke from anywhere to anywhere with anything
Limbic_Region ok, but you can yield mutliple times in multiple places
autrijus sure, so if you have cont, you can implement coro as simply passing the cont into the coro 14:28
and yield would be invoking the cont, passing it as argument the cont of the coro
Limbic_Region well, implementation is above my head
autrijus but yeah, coro is more accessible.
cont is basically goto() that takes a value and preserves call stack. 14:29
very hard to use sensibly.
s/preserve/restore/
Limbic_Region right
which is why I saw coros as being more fancy
perhaps wrong word
autrijus more "dressed up"
nod
liz6 need to prepare for some $work, later! 14:30
autrijus no, I guess "fancy" is the correct word. it's just my mind is in the direction of "the more abstract, bare and generic the thing is, the sexier it is"
obra There is such a thing as too abstract and generic
autrijus resists a joke on naked singularities
there is.
Limbic_Region of course, these aren't true coros in the sense that Knuth postulated about
autrijus obra: looked at the S17 we committed 5mins ago? 14:31
Limbic_Region we still have a single processor simulating work in tandem
autrijus it's not at all there. just things that we agree should be there
Limbic_Region autrijus - out of curiosity, will you be able to use conts and coros in places where goto's aren't allowed in p5 (body of loops that require initialization for instance)? 14:33
obra autrijus: I haven't looked in the last 5 minutes ;)
autrijus Limbic_Region: yes, of course! 14:34
that's their entire point.
I'm actually thinking about removing the Stmt form in the PIL tree, as everything is really just an expression; you should be able to take continuations in middle of statement 14:35
and, so to speak, goto() into middle of expression.
Limbic_Region well sure, but when I first brought up the question on the list it didn't sound like there was much interest in using them to their full potential
obra starts to imagine using a VM hook to use continuations to do backups of long-running processes 14:36
or to do realtime loadbalancing at the process level.
autrijus right.
obra That way you can move one runaway process to each CPU and take down EVERYTHING ;) 14:37
autrijus praises squeak for demonstrating the viability
yeah, mobile code, etc
obra you beat my fingers by 10 sec
autrijus Limbic_Region: it takes education :)
Limbic_Region autrijus - good, I haven't lost faith yet ;-) The other question I asked in that thread were the same questions Dan highlighted in www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog/archives/000178.html 14:38
there seemed to be a lot of disagreement amongst @larry at the time
autrijus yeah, but in 2.5 yrs, things changed 14:39
Limbic_Region IIRC, between Luke and Damian
that wasn't 2.5 years ago - it was this past May
autrijus oh. that was between lazy gather vs explicit coro
I think we need both ;)
Limbic_Region well that too 14:40
but still not what I was talking about
autrijus *puzzled*
Limbic_Region parameters
Limbic_Region tried to stuff too much into a single post I think
perlbot nopaste 14:42
perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: sial.org/pbot/<channel>
pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "Parameters and Coroutines" (10 lines, 165B) at sial.org/pbot/14024
Limbic_Region autrijus - I was talking about the behavior we would choose for that link 14:43
there is more than 1 way to do it
autrijus yeah.
PerlJam Limbic_Region: and how would you do it?
autrijus coro foo ($a) { yield $a; yield $a+1; yield $a+2 }; (foo(1), foo(2), foo(1), foo(2)) 14:44
?eval coro foo ($a) { yield $a; yield $a+1; yield $a+2 }; (foo(1), foo(2), foo(1), foo(2))
evalbot_7791 (1, 2, 3, 1)
Limbic_Region PerlJam - I indicated we should try to emulate whatever is closest to other languages that natively support coroutines
PerlJam autrijus: the $a doesn't get rebound? 14:45
autrijus PerlJam: it does only at full reentrance
Limbic_Region the concept was pretty foreign to me before I started reading about continuations and coroutines - I saw the potential, asked about it as well as semantics for parameters - and saw the thread go blammo
autrijus I think that's what iblech is having at js too, not very sure 14:46
PerlJam autrijus: then what's the point of passing a parameter the 2nd and 3rd time?
autrijus PerlJam: there's no point... I guess you can raise a warning? 14:47
leo autrijus: it does only at full reentrance -> (1, 2, 3, 2) ?
Limbic_Region autrijus - there may be a point
autrijus leo: first one is +0
Limbic_Region depends on perspective
autrijus oh wait
should be 2 then.
autrijus ponders what's what's going on
Limbic_Region when Knuth first proposed the concept of coroutines - it was intended to be two processes working in parallel (but in implementation we only emulate them)
PerlJam autrijus: I bet the first yield is "skipped" 14:48
(not on the first invocation obviously)
autrijus ?eval coro foo ($a) { yield $a; yield $a+1; yield $a+2 }; (foo(1), foo(2), foo(1), foo(2), foo(2), foo(2))
evalbot_7791 (1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3)
Limbic_Region adding a second or third parameter each time it is invoked could be thought of as giving new information to the parallel running process
autrijus ?eval coro foo ($a) { yield $a; yield $a+1; yield $a+2 }; (foo(1), foo(2), foo(1243), foo(9), foo(2), foo(2))
evalbot_7791 (1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3)
autrijus PerlJam: it's never rebound.
PerlJam oh, hmm.
autrijus very bad implementation, it seems.
PerlJam indeed :)
autrijus blame... autrijus I guess. iblech does it differently
you'd get 1,2,3,9,10,11 I think
Limbic_Region autrijus - did the commentary I just added make sense? 14:49
autrijus but that's why we have them at t/unspecced/
Limbic_Region: sure, it will amount to rebinding them
Limbic_Region but is that the right thing
that's the point, it can be argued both ways
since we don't really have parallel processes - we are only emulating them
PerlJam personally, I think the args should be rebound. 14:50
Limbic_Region PerlJam - but what if it is invoked the second time with no args 14:51
should the previous state stay put - should an exception be thrown
principal of least surprise is going to be hard to avoid here
s/avoid/meet/
PerlJam Limbic_Region: the sub takes an arg, so if one isn't given it's an error 14:54
the sub takes a non-optional arg I mean
Limbic_Region PerlJam - that's one way to look at it 14:56
the other way to look at it is that it was only called once and was paused 14:57
when it was resumed it should remember how it was called
IOW - a coro and a sub are different beasts
hmm
lag 14:58
Khisanth ah ha! 14:59
gaal: make works, make unoptimized doesn't, in fact just make uses a lot less memory too!
Limbic_Region minus the !, nice palindrome ;-)
svnbot6 r7792 | iblech++ | Per r6376 of S06: Changed ?$var to $var? and +$var to $var!. Also you can write 15:23
r7792 | iblech++ | "$var = 42" instead of "?$var = 42"/"$var? = 42" now.
r7792 | iblech++ | * examples, t, ext, docs, perl5, src/perl6:
r7792 | iblech++ | Changed (hopefully) all occurances of ?$var and +$var to conform the new S06.
r7792 | iblech++ | Note that I did *not* update perl5/Perl6-Value, as Perl6-Value includes an
r7792 | iblech++ | own small parser.
r7792 | iblech++ | * Pugs.AST.Internals: Updated the code to determine whether a param is slurpy,
r7792 | iblech++ | to accommodate to the Pugs.Parser change.
r7792 | iblech++ | * Pugs.Parser: Updated the parsing of the pre- and post-sigils.
r7792 | iblech++ | $var # really: $var! (which is same as $var is required)
r7792 | iblech++ | $var? # really: $var? (which is same as $var is optional)
r7792 | iblech++ | :$var # really: :$var? (which is same as :$var is optional)
r7792 | iblech++ | :$var! # really: :$var! (which is same as :$var is required)
r7792 | iblech++ | You cannot mix slurpy with named any longer, i.e.
r7792 | iblech++ | :*@args # is illegal now
r7792 | iblech++ | (Note that the named-ness of *@slurpy_args was ignored (see
r7792 | iblech++ | www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6....ge/22883); now it's
r7792 | iblech++ | additionally a parse error).
r7793 | iblech++ | util/catalog_tmpl/code.tmpl: Removed the unintended indent of the first line of a test.
Khisanth hopes someone cleans up the sigil mess at some point 15:24
?eval my @foo=1..4; 15:32
evalbot_7791 *** No compatible subroutine found: "&eval" at -e line 11, column 7-39
Khisanth O_O
17:17 Lopo_ is now known as Lopo
Khisanth ?eval my @foo=1..4; @foo.splice( 1, 1 ); 17:28
evalbot_7793 2
liz6 ?eval my @foo=1..4; @foo.splice( 1, -1 ); 17:30
evalbot_7793 3
liz6 ?eval my @foo=1..4; @foo.splice( -1, 1 ); 17:31
evalbot_7793 4
liz6 ?eval my @foo=1..4; @foo.splice( 1, -2 );
evalbot_7793 2
r0nny re
autrijus yo 17:33
svnbot6 r7794 | stevan++ | Perl6-ObjectSpace -> just following a train of thought with the older code, I need to finish this idea a little more to explore where to go next 17:53
geoffb *yawn* *smack smack* 18:04
obra seen leo 18:07
jabbot obra: leo was seen 3 hours 20 minutes 30 seconds ago
Limbic_Region am I the only one noticing the case conflict with perl5\Perl6-ObjectSpace\lib\Perl6\MetaModel\Opaque.pm and perl5\Perl6-ObjectSpace\lib\Perl6\MetaModel\opaque.pm 18:19
Limbic_Region can't do a svn up
autrijus Limbic_Region: you are on a case-insensitive, case-uncaring, case-cruel filesystem 18:20
geoffb "case-cruel" :-)
autrijus Limbic_Region: so, I'm afraid you have to rm -rf that MetaModel tree and then svn up
(or switch to SVK, which a certain autrijus made sure it won't croak) 18:21
Limbic_Region autrijus - I deleted the file in question
it restored it and then b1tched
gaal i like "incasative" 18:23
geoffb autrijus, stevan__, re: the Object Space stuff: are these additional bits of PIL, or layered on top of it?
autrijus geoffb: they are distinct layers
PIL is the AST; they are the "flow" part in PyPy literature
Limbic_Region: hmmm
geoffb OK, so does that mean that implementing the semantics PIL will be enough to have a working backend?
Limbic_Region is wiping out the entire MetaModel directory just in case 18:24
geoffb s/semantics/semantics of/
autrijus geoffb: the ObjSpace is the "semantics" behind method calls in PIL
so unless you want to have different intrinsic objects and different dispatch rules, ObjSpace is probably also part of runtime req
Limbic_Region even worse now autrijus
gaal _The Art of_ arrived today 18:25
geoffb Hmmm. So basically Ob Space is a "zoom in" on one part of PIL, the method call
?
Limbic_Region svn: Can't open file 'perl5\Perl6-ObjectSpace\lib\Perl6\MetaModel\.svn\tmp\text-base\Opaque.pm.svn-base': The system can not find the specified file
geoffb gaal, what is that?
(I'm guessing a book, but what about?)
gaal TaPL up next
geoffb: ..._The Metaobject Protocol_ 18:26
geoffb gaal, ah
gaal if i read it i'll finally have a chance to understand what Stevan's all up about :)
geoffb As a title by itself, I was thing "The Art of" was pretty damn wide for a subject
heh
So autrijus, sorry if I'm being obtuse. I'm thinking about it from the point of view of (maybe, someday) creating an additional backend -- what is the absolute minimum set of things I must supply to have it work completely, even if it's dog slow? 18:27
Right now, it sounds like PIL + Ob Space + a certain set of primitive types and containers 18:28
gaal I want to write a "What the heck is" list of *questions* for stevan & co about OO in Perl 6 (first from a user perspective) but need tuits
autrijus geoffb: ok. to create a backend you need to write a codegen
that takes pil and generates some sort of code in your runtime env
geoffb Tuits being sadly in shorter supply than oil . . . .
Limbic_Region autrijus - even after doing an svn cleanup - it still won't do a proper svn up 18:29
autrijus and then that "sort of code" needs to manipulate the p6 objects
so you need to port the metamodel on top of your language's runtime
prior to objspace, porting metamodel is very hard
now you just have to implement the intrinsic types
Limbic_Region suspects anyone on Windows using svn is going to have the same problems 18:30
autrijus and the 30ish prim ops needed to support metamodel
Limbic_Region: hm. seek help in #svn or so? worst case we move stuff into diff. dirs
Limbic_Region can't join #svn as he only has access to #perl6 through Feather's CGI:IRC 18:31
autrijus ahh.
Limbic_Region no worries
I will work on it tonight if I get a chance
from home
err scratch that
geoffb autrijus, OK, so to summarize, I need: PIL->backend codegen, PIL primitives, intrisic type implementations, MM primitives. And then it will Just Work. Yes? 18:32
Limbic_Region tonight's Halloween
autrijus Limbic_Region: fixing it for you
Limbic_Region hugs autrijus
autrijus geoffb: yes.
visio would help
<- but in irc.perl.org #parrotsketch meeting
Limbic_Region oh, well then /me shuts up 18:33
geoffb autrijus, good then. And yes, diagram would be good in the future, but I understand what I need to right now. Good luck in mtg.
svnbot6 r7795 | autrijus++ | * Move MetaMode/* to MM/* in P6-OS because Win32 SVN
r7795 | autrijus++ | doesn't like case changes.
autrijus Limbic_Region: svn up and try again?
geoffb & # brunch
18:38 stevan__ is now known as stevan
stevan gaal: excellent book, I am sure you will enjoy it :) 18:38
Limbic_Region autrijus - likely will have to delete directory, svn cleanup, svn up - but yeah ok
autrijus cool
stevan The Art of MOP that is
hey autrijus :) 18:39
Limbic_Region for those of you keeping track at home - the p6 related questions at the Monastery have waned substantially in the last couple of months 18:40
autrijus hey stevan :) 18:41
Limbic_Region autrijus - no luck
autrijus Limbic_Region: just wait till 6.28.0 and p5objspace :)
Limbic_Region: mm, what errors you got?
Limbic_Region perlbot nopaste
perlbot Paste your code here and #<channel> will be able to view it: sial.org/pbot/<channel>
pasteling "Limbic_Region" at 129.33.119.12 pasted "svn on Windows b0rk" (31 lines, 1.6K) at sial.org/pbot/14032 18:42
autrijus Limbic_Region: try this
svn up *
svn up
oh hm, I bet I know why 18:43
a sec
Limbic_Region ?eval sleep 1; say 'now'
evalbot_7795 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&sleep"
Limbic_Region *shrug* - so much for the joke
autrijus Limbic_Region: try again 18:44
Limbic_Region autrijus - same error 18:47
same place
autrijus again? 18:49
Limbic_Region yep 18:50
svnbot6 r7796 | autrijus++ | * add MM back
r7797 | autrijus++ | try again
Limbic_Region tries again just to be sure
autrijus worked 18:52
Limbic_Region hugs autrijus 18:53
autrijus :)
geoffb fg 18:57
autrijus mm, var regs hits parrot trunk; shift/reduce parser works on PGE itself 18:59
Khisanth variable registers?
autrijus chip has finally got some coherent picture of lex pad design -- once it's coded, parrot could really rock
Khisanth: instead of I0..I31 and use a slow register alligator that eats continuations
parrot register frame size can now vary from call frame to call frame 19:00
geoffb Is it The Plan that P6 arrays will be efficient about sparseness? In particular, small runs of adjacent filled entries, with large gaps of nothing?
Khisanth register alligator ...
autrijus geoffb: yes, I think so, esp. if you take ranges into account
Khisanth makes funny faces at autrijus
autrijus er allocator. but since I was in leo's place I've always called it alligator
geoffb: also I wonder if we should look into Judy for Hash
geoffb autrijus, nodnod. Prolly a good idea, if it's the same one I recall from a couple years ago (very cache-friendly multi-level keyed trees) 19:01
autrijus yes yes. 19:02
self adapting and all that
geoffb autrijus, of course, doesn't that depend on being pretty bare metal with unboxed bytes and ints?
PerlJam etches his ints into silicon 19:03
geoffb (In other words, losing a lot of efficiency if your unboxed byte operators are not as fast as C's?)
autrijus geoffb: er what? this is a hash table
Limbic_Region autrijus - the variable size registers still won't help the problem of seeing every { } as a potential closure right?
autrijus Limbic_Region: it will actually help, because {} as closure is now dirt cheap in parrot 19:04
geoffb autrijus, I meant, implementing the Judy trees. Or were you assuming a library that we would just use?
Limbic_Region IOW - has there been a decision to force blocks explicitly as closure if desired in the p6 language when it isn't obvious
autrijus once lexpad is in, capturing all pads won't be a lot of cost
Limbic_Region autrijus - but it still has to do every single one right?
autrijus Limbic_Region: it's compile time allocation
if you don't introduce new sym in that block
then there's no pain
Limbic_Region *shrug* - if you say so
autrijus geoffb: judy.sf.net
geoffb well, all right then. :-) 19:05
autrijus Limbic_Region: if it proves to be slow we can always optimize
but I'm all for deferring optimization
esp. seeing functional languages all do this block-as-closure
and they seem to run just fine 19:06
Limbic_Region I wasn't suggest that optimizations on current stuff take precedence over becoming feature complete
Parrot has had enough of that headache
autrijus ah. just "think about it"
sure, will do
Limbic_Region I was only wondering what was being done to address chip's concerns (or perhaps it was pdcawley) about having to save everything as a potential closure/continuation 19:07
autrijus it was chip's concern; but CPS interp fixed that -- saving cc is now O(1) and involves no memcpy I think. 19:08
Limbic_Region cool 19:09
what is the CPS interp fix? I thought Parrot had always used CPS?
geoffb Limbic_Region, not always. But for a long time now, yes
autrijus yes but there was problems with the lower "control" registers IIRC 19:10
not at all sure now, because I learned them from leo
who then, after three days, took them out
Limbic_Region geoffb, right - from my perspective it had been always and certainly before chip raised this specific concern
autrijus so I never remember the bad old days.
chip raised the concern before that, I think
but you want leo and chip for this, not me -- it's all hearsay from me
Limbic_Region well - I trust that good stuff is happening 19:11
Limbic_Region doesn't have the current knowledge to know otherwise
and I certainly don't have the desire to get the knowledge to know for sure
autrijus you will, once we are targetting parrot for real
you can then complain certain code of yours runs slower than p5 :)
Limbic_Region right - the proof is in the pudding
autrijus yes.
Limbic_Region It isn't that compiler/VM stuff isn't interesting - it certainly is 19:12
but it is something you spend years getting good at
and I just don't want to make that kind of an investment
autrijus nodnod. 19:13
PerlJam autrijus: so how long do you think before we have a parrot-based perl6 compiler (or whatever "the real" compiler looks like)? 19:16
autrijus PerlJam: blocking on lexpad
so chip is the better one to answer this 19:17
PerlJam autrijus: I know, I just want you gut estimation.
s/you/your/
Limbic_Region autrijus - so the missing exceptions and other features aren't an issue?
autrijus Limbic_Region: er, exceptions actually work
but no, those aren't crucial
PerlJam: pugs can target parrot once lexpad is there. about ~1wk for passing an agreeable amount of t/ 19:18
PerlJam: the "real" compiler would require bootstrapping
including porting Pugs.Rules into PGE and S/R parser
and Pugs.Parser
and also the rest of Compiler/CogeGen into P6
I don't know about those. not priority to me.
Limbic_Region hmmm - that's a scary thought to me actually
autrijus priority to me is get OO, then rules, then types, working.
Limbic_Region for 5 years now - Parrot has been able to be developed without a great deal of influence from the language (or rather a specific language wasn't driving the development) 19:19
autrijus Tcl has been driving :D
PerlJam only lately
Limbic_Region and BASIC
autrijus yeah.
Limbic_Region and Python
autrijus python for a while
Limbic_Region off and on anyway
autrijus but negatively, in some areas
PerlJam BASIC early, then python for a while and now tcl.
One day perl6 will be driving ;) 19:20
autrijus pugs has been driving ever since Vienna :)
I made a list of parrotIsBrokenXXX in Pugs.Compile.Parrot and chip/leo has really placed them as top priority
PerlJam cool 19:21
autrijus which is why as of today it's only lexpad was blocking -- it was six or seven things
Limbic_Region that's good
what will also be good is targetted optimizations
no offense to leo or anyone else providing optimizations to Parrot
PerlJam I really wish I knew more about parsers/compilers/etc. Right now I'm in the camp of "I know recursivce descent is slow, but I can write one of those" :-)
Limbic_Region but there really haven't been any real world applications to base them off
Pugs brings lots and lots of examples and tests to the table 19:22
autrijus but nothing "production" before we hit 6.28.0 (which is why it's top priority for me) 19:23
Limbic_Region PerlJam - if it were a noop to suddenly be instilled with lots and lots of parser/compiler/etc knowledge - me too ;-)
autrijus I still think p5vm targetting will bring a lot of _more_ code into table
Limbic_Region autrijus - matter of perspective
autrijus in this case CPAN code
Limbic_Region right
sili i say we code for maintainability and flexibility and just wait for hardware to catch up. it should do well with the expected release date of p6
Limbic_Region heh
autrijus sili: except that CPUs are not getting faster. 19:24
which is why S17 (concurrency) is also a priority ;)
sili they are too getting faster
geoffb sadly, autrijus is right. (And a good wording for today's blog, thanks autrijus )
sili someone at intel is working on it right... now.
autrijus geoffb: :)
sili: er, intel is working on dual/quad/whatever cores instead
sili could be amd then. 19:25
geoffb It's actually last week's, but between $work, @family, and &sickness, it's happening today instead.
sili or sun/ibm/etc
autrijus actually... amd is doing the same
Limbic_Region backplane speed is more of a concern to me then CPU
autrijus clocking CPU upwards is probably not going to happen at the same rate as before.
geoffb sili, most processor companies right now are focused on making parallelism suck less.
autrijus geoffb: woot 19:26
sili heh.
Limbic_Region CPU speed increases have certainly not kept paced with the # of transistors
and backplane speed really hasn't seen any significant improvements in a decade
there are real barriers preventing individual CPU speed from going much further (which could certainly be overcame) 19:27
it is just faster/cheaper/better to go multi-processor
azuroth morninggg
Limbic_Region salutaitons
salutations even
sili let the community pay for time on a super computer 19:28
did i mention i'd really like to help p6, but i have no idea about how anything works?
PerlJam sili: "on a super computer"? you're clearly insane. How about time on "the network computer"? All of those people with broadband access and mostly-idle PCs could make for one hell of a parallel computer.
sili PerlJam: that's fine, too. 19:29
Limbic_Region sili - you mean Perl6 or Parrot or Pugs or all of them?
integral sili: go into .../pugs/examples, find a program that's broken, fix it :-)
PerlJam sili: writing tests are always good.
geoffb PerlJam, well, for certain tasks, yes.
sili Limbic_Region: mostly parrot and p6
integral PerlJam: PVM or MPI, or which has a Haskell lib? 19:30
PerlJam geoffb: sure. As we reach our limits in one axis, we'll need to be thinking about where and how we can squirrel away computations.
sili integral: write a doc profling p6 from top to bottom
Limbic_Region well - there is plenty of p5 stuff that can help Parrot - I wrote benchmark code and there are the benchmark tests and verified builds on Cygwin (which has a very small user base) to report bugs
sili profiling.
Limbic_Region small, but helpful role 19:31
integral rolls his eyes at sili
PerlJam integral: you rolled a 3
Limbic_Region Perl6 design happens mostly on the list - so jump in after reading the Synopses
Pugs - well, that's where you go for fun
sili what about understanding parrot internals?
Limbic_Region sili - I hear the docs are getting better 19:32
but I never went down that road
my C fu is too weak
PerlJam sili: prod chip and leo (and especially encourage them to get those PDDs updated)
azuroth someone's even doing a thesis on it, I think
integral the variable register frame thing still doesn't seem to be finished :-/
autrijus integral: oh? how?
sili azuroth: i saw that on the list. could be a while until it's finished
autrijus integral: also, prodding allison to commit comptools and tte (tree transform engine) 19:33
integral: but! I discovers her s3kr1t stash! svn.lohutok.net/nam/trunk/parrot/
comptools.pod, Language::AG, it's all there
integral autrijus: that's the impression I got from leo's last email (p6i) on the topic
oooh!
"Actually now almost all register frame are variable-sized." - among other things the allocator apparantly still only allocates to 32 registers 19:34
autrijus leo: should the alligator simply die?
sili looks for the automagic pod->html converter
autrijus sili: pod2html, part of perl
(and raise a better alligator in its place)
integral podserver might be handy for you, sili 19:35
sili that requires downloading files though
integral a much simpler one that just reuses when lifetime expires, since there's no need for moving things to the stack
leo integral: this isn't true anymore: new P60, .Integer #... 19:36
Limbic_Region autrijus - nicholas doesn't participate in #parrotsketch ? How much, if any, is Ponie influencing Parrot?
oh hey there leo ;-)
integral leo: ah, neat. I'm afraid I don't follow the commits list so I seem to miss lots of bits 19:37
autrijus Limbic_Region: Nicholas does participate. he is apparently having massive hyperdistraction problems.
like me, a few weeks ago
Limbic_Region k
autrijus at least he did not low level format his HDs.
sili leo: it was suggested to encourage you to update those PDDs
:)
autrijus ponie does move parrot -- leo committed a few patches to make things work -- but not as close as (say) Tcl
leo integral: 13:59 <+svnbot6> r9677 (today) 19:38
sili: no time yet - but yes
integral cool :-)
autrijus integral: svnbot6 is da bot :)
leo: we really need to get allison into this karma-collecting game 19:39
leo yup
integral autrijus: allison mentions PIL in her compiler_tools.pod; does pugs have it's PIL2 spec'ed out yet, or enough to feed some of that into the PAST thoughts?
Limbic_Region is reading the #parrotsketch notes and sees Nicholas down at the bottom ;-) 19:40
autrijus integral: I don't think it's going to be a PAST soonish
the Pirate people did not materialize one 19:41
and noone else is doing that
integral ok
autrijus integral: and PIL2 is basically simplified PIL -- i.e. incremental changes
mostly lexical hoisting and saner closure handling -- also thinking to drop Stmt form 19:42
integral ah, yeah, the compile time Pad issue
autrijus will do it alongside Obj stuff.
kolibrie discovers an Ogg Vorbis capable car CD player! 19:43
autrijus kolibrie: ooh. url? 19:44
(not that I have a car.)
kolibrie www.yakumo.com/produkte/index.php?p...=Autoradio 19:45
have to look in the user manual
Limbic_Region ooh autrijus - Wendy sounds like a wonderful sounding board 19:48
Limbic_Region is reading the filled in journal stub
autrijus :D 19:49
yeah. already made her committer.
Limbic_Region fresh perspectives can be invaluable sometimes
autrijus "xenolupa" I think
Limbic_Region err, untainted fresh perspectives anyway
autrijus yeah, esp. she did not have the p5 brainwash nor the java/c# brainwash
so, perfect person to try type system on
comet_ sometimes cliches are invaluable too 19:50
autrijus as p6 type system had been really hard to swallow for people who had worked around and/or implemented either the dynamic or static end of strong typing
Limbic_Region well - I would still prefer a type system where there could be compile time failures for improper type usage 19:54
but one with the flexibility not to impose that when undesired
raw speed, fast but flexible, flexible but not so fast 19:55
xinming autrijus: ping 20:01
autrijus xinming: pong 20:02
comet_ rama lama ding dong
xinming ?eval class a { has $.a; method update { $.a; } };class b { has $.a; submethod BUILD { a.new( a => $.a ).update; }; }; b.new( a => 20 );
evalbot_7797 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&update"
xinming autrijus: hmm, Is this bug fixed? 20:03
autrijus: hmm, If it is fixed, I want to see if the test is working. 20:06
azuroth is feather for parrot only, or pugs as well? 20:07
autrijus azuroth: pugs as well.
Limbic_Region actually in that sense, pugs came first
azuroth Juerd: any chance I could get access? 20:08
Limbic_Region well, perl6 came first
Limbic_Region things feather should have had a p name now - Pugs, Ponie, Perl6, Parrot
geoffb Primary? (As in primary feather) 20:09
liz6 pheater?
geoffb liz6, :-) 20:10
Limbic_Region well, we have 3 animals and Perl6 is the amalgamation of many animals so.... 20:12
Pangolin 20:13
The pangolin is an insect-eating mammal that has protective scales on its body.
geoffb has several pangolin sculptures 20:15
Something about them just appeals to me, I guess
gaal Panda? Purry (well)? Pig? Polar bear? Party Animal? 20:17
azuroth party animal. :D
Limbic_Region very unlikely Juerd will want to change the name - but I like alliteration 20:18
and palindromes
which also starts with a p
sili eh
gaal Piranha!
sili what is poc?
gaal context? 20:19
proof of concept?
sili [POC]
gaal that's not enough context for me :)
sili maybe that's it.
on p6i, messages labeled [POC]
gaal [POC] in my current context is a list of POCs.
sili ? 20:20
gaal In haskell, [a] means list of a :)
sili trickster. 20:21
so is it proof of concept?
gaal dunno
sili !
gaal You mean www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6....nals/31494 ? Looks like proof of concept to me. 20:23
Limbic_Region the 2 acronyms I know for POC that are common - proof of concept and point of contact 20:25
point of contact doesn't fit in that link though
liz6 Perl Or Cobol? 20:28
Limbic_Region kicks liz6
learning Cobol for a CS degree was mandatory at the University of Maine 10 years ago (maybe even more recent) 20:29
liz6 hurts ;-) 20:30
chip hell, I learned Cobol in high school in the early 80s 20:31
I thought it was dying *then*
Limbic_Region wonders where chip went to school 20:32
for the record, I neither have a CS degree nor attended the University of Maine 20:33
I was helping my Dad
chip Limbic_Region: vocational-technical high school. Half of each day senior year was in CS class 20:36
chip had fun hacking (*ahem*) an HP-3000. Junior year it still had honest-to-Eris core memory. Little teeny tiny metal donuts. 20:37
geoffb Yipes. I've only seen real core in Boston's CS museum. 20:43
stevan drops his punch cards, and curses loudly 20:44
stevan hands chip his white lab coat
liz6 wonders whether stevan had sequence numbers on his cards 20:46
chip checks ping times to aarp.com
azuroth I'd better head to TAFE soon 20:47
Limbic_Region chip - cool stuff 20:48
Limbic_Region heads for home and trick-or-treaters
TTFN
chip cya
autrijus liz6: btw, rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/.../?Queue=82 for svk download; after install, "svk co svn.openfoundry.org/pugs" and press enter all the way. 21:44
liz6 autrijus: tx 21:46
autrijus liz6: for wendy too (there's win32 binary there)
geoffb autrijus, you've mentioned the mindset that Wendy *doesn't* have. What is her actual specialty? 21:47
autrijus geoffb: extremely high intelligence :) 21:48
geoffb LOL
autrijus and high clock speed.
like, at times faster than me :)
geoffb Well, sure, but is she a programmer, a mathematician, a physicist . . . ?
hoo-ah
Juerd azuroth: Email me your real name and preferred username
azuroth: And the request itself, of course 21:49
autrijus a programmer... with training in C, p5, and another language I don't know how to spell.
geoffb ah
autrijus oh, www.tencore.com/ "tencore".
svnbot6 r7798 | rafl++ | r18858@ata: rafl | 2005-10-30 02:36:30 +0200 21:54
r7798 | rafl++ | Debian:
r7798 | rafl++ | * Updated changelog up to 6.2.10-4.
r7798 | rafl++ | * Use Pugs instead of pugs in package descriptions everywhere.
r7798 | rafl++ | * Fixed a format error in copyright.
r7798 | rafl++ | * Adjusted prerm and postinst scripts fir libghc6-pugs-dev to use ghc 6.4.1.
r7798 | rafl++ | * Added some smoke uploading code again.
r7799 | rafl++ | r18859@ata: rafl | 2005-10-30 02:37:59 +0200
r7799 | rafl++ | Debian:
r7799 | rafl++ | * Build-Depend on ghc6 (>= 6.4.1) instead of
r7799 | rafl++ | ghc6 (>= 6.4) | ghc-cvs (>= 20050331-1).
r7800 | rafl++ | r18958@ata: rafl | 2005-10-31 22:44:42 +0100
r7800 | rafl++ | * Debian: build-depend on libparrot0.3.0-dev instead of parrot-dev.
r7801 | rafl++ | r18959@ata: rafl | 2005-10-31 22:45:01 +0100
r7801 | rafl++ | * Remove useless library-dirs.
eric256 wow. lol
autrijus svk push -l ;) 21:55
eric256 how do you commit to just local?
rafl A new option learned. :-)
eric256: copy a mirrored path to a local one and simply commit to it. Then you can push back into the mirrored path with svk push 21:56
How to check if parrot embedding worked? 21:57
eric256 ...../me stares dazed at rafl
rafl eric256: Err?
eric256 so if i was working on tests.... cp t t_local; work in T, svk ci -M as needed....then when i'm done svk push -I ?
geoffb According to clkao's latest slides, you can just change your original 'svk co ...' to 'svk cp ...', and it will just do the magic for you. 21:58
Though I haven't tried that yet to see.
eric256 i could realy use an svk website with examples. is that back yet?
autrijus eric256: yes, exactly, though don't need -I
rafl eric256: svk mirror PUGS_SVK_URL //mirror/pugs; svk cp //mirror/pugs //local/pugs; svk co //local/pugs 21:59
autrijus geoffb: that's correct. at least, that's how I coded it
eric256: svk.elixus.org is back
rafl eric256: It's nicer to copy the whole path to a local path, imho.
geoffb autrijus++ # constantly working to DWIM
eric256 why is that better than svk co PUGS_SVK_URL; svk ci? seems like lots of work and svk already confuses me enough. ;) 22:00
autrijus rafl: to test parrotembed, compile with embed and then ./pugs -e 'eval("print 123", :lang<pir>)'
geoffb eric256, local branches and local commit
eric256 finished a phone system install this weekend and now waits to get voicemail anxiously. lol
amos morning all 22:01
autrijus greetings amos 22:02
rafl autrijus: Thanks.
autrijus np :)
22:04 amos is now known as azuroth_tafe
rafl autrijus: You don't plan to do releases shortly after the monthly parrot release anymore, do you? :-) 22:04
azuroth_tafe eric256: so could you explain more about tests relating to documentation? 22:05
eric256 sure. any specifics you are interested in?
azuroth_tafe you said to read S12? 22:06
eric256 ?? no. 22:07
feather.perl6.nl/~eric256/t_index/t...arity.html
there is a test file, see how the links let you jump right to documentation relavent to that test? thats what we want to do with as many tests as possible.
so if you browse tests.pugscode.org you can find tests with no links to documentation. I've been then looking for documentation that relates to the tests and inserting the needed L<> link into the .t file 22:08
integral eric256++ # neat 22:09
autrijus rafl: actually, we can still do that :)
Juerd azuroth_tafe: Your password is amoro. Change it right away.
azuroth_tafe thanks!
er... what's feather's URL?
eric256 can i ask....why are so many failing tests outside of pugsbugs? i'm always confused as to when tests should be in pugsbugs, and when not. 22:10
Juerd azuroth_tafe: You can't change the password using a url.
azuroth_tafe: use ssh.
azuroth_tafe I mean... the domain name, rather 22:11
Juerd hostname?
feather.perl6.nl
integral w
oops. impressive number of users on feather :)
Juerd You think? 22:12
azuroth_tafe hooray
Juerd I love seeing my donation work so well.
liz6 ;)
autrijus eric256: pugsbugs is actually "not sure how to categorize, someone please take a look". 22:13
azuroth_tafe should I use this svk thing? or just normal svn?
integral Juerd: compared to the size of the userbase here, definately. juerd++ :-)
Juerd azuroth_tafe: svk, see feather.perl6.nl/~autrijus/
azuroth_tafe excellent, thanks
eric256 looks more at local mirroring.... 22:14
so that would allow me to commit more often, which my instincts tell me to, but only push when i am at the end, so i can break stuff but still commit without worrying about breaking anyone else. and only push when everything is working agian. ...i think i like that. it its not too complicated in the end. ;) 22:15
does it only work with mirror and not co? 22:16
azuroth_tafe so `svk pull` is like up? and I just ci as norm? 22:17
Juerd azuroth_tafe: You can use up too.
autrijus eric256: if you already have a co of //mirror/pugs, do this
svk cp -m "local branch" //mirror/pugs //pugs
azuroth_tafe ahh, okay
autrijus svk sw //pugs
then "svk ci" will become locak
and then use push to pushback 22:18
eric256 so i end up with two local copies of pugs? 22:20
svnbot6 r7802 | stevan++ | Perl6::ObjectSpace -
r7802 | stevan++ | * the Perl6::MM::* types are fleshed out
r7802 | stevan++ | - tests added for them too
r7802 | stevan++ | * started a Perl6::MetaModel::Bootstrap module to
r7802 | stevan++ | explore what the metamodel will look like using
r7802 | stevan++ | these types. Currently we just have the contents
r7802 | stevan++ | of Gnosis.pm from MM 2.0, and I tested that
r7802 | stevan++ | $::Class->add_method works properly (although it
r7802 | stevan++ | is spelled much differently, see t/metamodel/01*.t
r7802 | stevan++ | for more details)
azuroth_tafe karma time :D 22:21
jabbot azuroth_tafe: time :D has neutral karma
stevan is off to dinner & 22:22
autrijus ingy: new bible snap when you got some cycles, thanks 22:33
autrijus waves and sleeps & 22:41
geoffb g'night, autrijus
Juerd autrijus about wendy: it is rare that I meet someone with a higher internal clock speed and raw mental capacity compared to mine. 22:59
rotflol.
eric256 svn check 23:33
svnbot6 r7803 | eric256++ | r14391@feather: eric256 | 2005-10-31 23:40:00 +0100
r7803 | eric256++ | local branck
r7803 | eric256++ | r14401@feather: eric256 | 2005-11-01 00:16:03 +0100
r7803 | eric256++ | - Add CSS styling to directory.tmpl
r7803 | eric256++ | r14402@feather: eric256 | 2005-11-01 00:23:58 +0100
r7803 | eric256++ | - t/var/var.t fixed link heading
r7803 | eric256++ | r14403@feather: eric256 | 2005-11-01 00:27:05 +0100
r7803 | eric256++ | - t/syntax/stmt_or_expr.t Changed to A04
eric256 mhmm...that didn't quite work as expected.
can any svk guru point to my error?
geoffb eric256, as aut* said: svk push -l or svk push --verbatim 23:45
eric256 i did push -l
i'll have to try --verbatim next time. ;)
svnbot6 r7804 | eric256++ | t/builtins/perl.t added link to .perl and ref quote 23:57
eric256 --verbatim worked. thanks ;)
karma eric256
jabbot eric256: eric256 has karma of 27
eric256 i think that went down. lol
later all 23:58

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