»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by Juerd on 28 August 2009.
00:00 Whiteknight joined
diakopter rakudo: use @*INC 00:00
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Can't find .//home/p6eval/.perl6/lib /home/p6eval/p1/lib/parrot/1.6.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib lib . in @*INC␤in Main (/tmp/OvoKrXtEnH:2)␤»
diakopter <blink /> 00:01
rakudo: use use 00:02
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Can't find ./use in @*INC␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:445)␤»
diakopter std: use use 00:03
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Can't locate module use at /tmp/Hu92GrWr75 line 1 (EOF):␤------> use use⏏<EOL>␤ok 00:01 94m␤»
00:03 ihrd joined, ihrd left
diakopter colomon: successor/predecessor 00:16
colomon diakopter: yes, moritz_ explained. :) 00:18
dalek kudo: 729722a | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/setting/Complex.pm:
Add Complex trig functions not currently shadowed by Parrot complex functions.
 00:33
kudo: 3afb78d | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/setting/ (2 files):
Change from-radians to work on self rather than a passed parameter.
kudo: 7a33068 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/setting/Any-num.pm:
Add Any.atan2.
sjohnson is dalek a bot? 00:47
00:47 Matt-W joined 00:53 gbacon left 00:54 TiMBuS joined
colomon sjohnson: yes 00:59
sjohnson /mode +v dalek
i guess that explains why he never answered my letters
01:01 s1n joined 01:12 TimToady sets mode: +v dalek 01:14 wknight8111 joined, Whiteknight left 01:28 Matt-W_ joined 01:31 Matt-W left 01:55 rhr_ joined, molaf_x joined, molaf left
pugs_svn r28398 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Bring the complex trig tests into the new (still not active) system. 02:00
02:08 explorer left, rhr left, jhuni left 02:13 wknight8111 left 02:22 PZt joined 02:24 japhb joined 02:25 stephenlb left 02:33 xinming_ joined 02:35 [particle] left 02:37 [particle] joined 02:38 rindolf left 02:45 sparc joined 02:48 xinming left 02:53 alester joined 02:57 nbrown left 02:58 rhr_ left 03:00 rhr joined 03:09 Entonian joined 03:15 s1n_mini joined 03:32 jaldhar joined 03:50 Student left
pugs_svn r28399 | jimmy++ | [zh-cn/syn/S02-bits.pod]fixed grammar. 03:53
03:58 jhuni joined 04:08 nihiliad joined, tak11 left 04:11 alester left, alester joined 04:34 s1n_mini left 04:54 alester left
pugs_svn r28400 | jimmy++ | [Spec/S02-bits.pod]used standard dialect 'Pod' 05:18
05:31 zerhash left 05:32 Entonian left 05:50 nihiliad left 05:53 am0c left
mikehh rakudo (729722a) builds on parrot r41465 - make test / make spectest (up to 28400) PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 05:55
05:56 [particle]1 joined 06:02 justatheory left 06:03 [particle]1 left 06:04 PZt left 06:05 [particle] left
mikehh make spectest_smolder ok now - #28049 06:10
06:13 NorwayGeek|Away left 06:29 iblechbot joined 06:43 PZt joined 06:53 meppl joined 07:08 Laughing_God joined, Laughing_God left 07:11 iblechbot left 07:12 mariuz joined 07:16 rfordinal joined 07:20 donaldh left 07:23 donaldh joined 07:31 crythias left
pugs_svn r28401 | jimmy++ | [zh-cn/syn/S02-bits.pod]added random Chinese translation. 07:32
07:32 Matt-W_ is now known as Matt-W
pugs_svn r28402 | jimmy++ | [zh-cn/syn/S02-bits.pod]a bit more Localization. 07:38
07:44 charsbar left, charsbar joined 07:45 cosimo left 07:52 ejs joined 07:56 dakkar joined 07:59 ellipsis joined 08:02 ejs1 joined, JimmyZ joined 08:08 jferrero joined 08:10 ejs left 08:11 am0c joined 08:14 icwiener joined 08:15 ssm left 08:17 NorwayGeek joined, NorwayGeek left 08:18 NorwayGeek joined, ellipsis left 08:30 payload1 joined 08:31 payload left
jnthn phenny tell __ash__ yes, it's fine if you do that. :-) 08:32
phenny? 08:33
phenny: tell __ash__ yes, it's fine if you do that. :-)
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when __ash__ is around.
jnthn ah
insufficient colonage.
Matt-W morning 08:35
jnthn oh hai 08:40
moritz_ \o/ 08:48
yesterday night was very productive in finding new rakudobugs and stumbling over old ones
08:48 flip645 joined
flip645 rakudo: (1,2,3).».&infix:<+>(3).say 08:49
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected Complex, but got Int for $a in call to infix:+␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:881)␤called from Main (/tmp/exOs2Lja2n:2)␤»
flip645 rakudo: (1.2,2.1,3.1).».&infix:<+>(3.2).say
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected Complex, but got Num for $a in call to infix:+␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:881)␤called from Main (/tmp/xdUNntbBcO:2)␤»
flip645 Is there some way to specify which <+> operator I want?
moritz_ sadly that somewhat diminished my productivity in actually producing working code
flip645: &infix:<+> is a subroutine, but you try to call it as an operator 08:50
flip645 well, shouldn't it work that way?
moritz_ no 08:51
flip645 it just tells me about wrong types ...
moritz_ the error message is less than awesome, yes
flip645 I don't understand the difference ... 08:52
I thought that I could pass a curried function, which just needs one more argument, as an operator?
rakudo: (1.2,2.1,3.1).map(*+3.2).».say 08:53
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«4.4␤5.3␤6.3␤»
flip645 Maybe I'm just "confused at p6" ;-=
rakudo: (1,2,3).».&infix:<+>.say 08:54
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (1) - 2 params expected␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:872)␤called from Main (/tmp/zDbZEuoHDA:2)␤»
flip645 So it needs just one more parameter ... and that's what I'd like to provide:
rakudo: (1,2,3).».&infix:<+>(3).say
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected Complex, but got Int for $a in call to infix:+␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:881)␤called from Main (/tmp/ewAXrvYbHl:2)␤»
flip645 How can I take the "Int" infix:<+>? 08:55
moritz_ flip645: unlike in haskell you still have to curry explicitly
it's NYI, not sure what the spec says
something like &infix:<+>(Int,Int)(2, 3) or so 08:56
flip645 just looking at the pods
rakudo: (1,2,3).».&infix:<+>(Int,Int)(3).say
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (4) - 2 params expected␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:872)␤called from Main (/tmp/KUueI0MrPR:2)␤»
moritz_ but you still try to call it as a method. Won't work.
flip645 Hmm, doesn't select
moritz_ (unless by a bug)
flip645 rakudo: my $a=&infix:<+>(Int,Int); (1,2,3).».$a(3).say
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Use of type object as value␤Use of type object as value␤elements() not implemented in class 'Integer'␤in Main (/tmp/V2TEGY8bE2:2)␤»
flip645 well, it looks nice to me ... 08:57
I think that should DWIM (but maybe that's just me)
08:57 ssm joined
moritz_ subs and methods have totally different lookup rules 08:58
mixing them is a receipt for trouble
flip645 rakudo: (1,2,3).».&infix:<+>:(Int,Int)(2).say 09:09
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected Complex, but got Int for $a in call to infix:+␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:881)␤called from Main (/tmp/F2SMjUvSKI:2)␤»
flip645 doesn't seem to hel
*help
moritz_ still a method call. 09:10
flip645 Could you elaborate?
Now we're cooking with charcoal:
rakudo: my &a=&infix:<+>:(Int,Int).assuming(2); say &a(3);
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«5␤» 09:11
flip645 rakudo: my &a=&infix:<+>:(Int,Int).assuming(2); (2,3,1).».&a.say; 09:12
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«elements() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤in Main (/tmp/fDYVKxNP0c:2)␤»
moritz_ what kind of elaboration do you want? $something>>.$otherthing is a method call.
flip645 I'd thought that it would call $otherthing on each element of $something?
Ain't that a method call?
moritz_ yes. But &infix:<+> is not a method. 09:13
flip645 Isn't $x.$f() the same as $f($x)? 09:14
Or $x: $f()? 09:16
Just reading S13 ... 09:18
09:20 iblechbot joined
moritz_ $x.$f() is not the same as $f($x). 09:21
flip645 What's the difference? 09:23
Shouldn't both do dispatch based on the type?
Ok, $f($x) may be a bit lax, in that $x.$f() has to have a method in the class of $x defined 09:24
But in any case there's a function $f taking a single argument of $x, isn't it?
09:24 masak joined
flip645 I don't really understand why that doesn't DWIM 09:24
masak slides into the channel and does a backflip 09:25
flip645: it could DWIM, but it doesn't.
think of it as an arbitrary syntactic limitation. 09:26
flip645 that doesn't sound like Perl ;-)
moritz_ flip645: foo($x) looks into the current scope for a sub 'foo', then in an outer scope, then in the next outer scope, and at the very end in the namespace
masak flip645: well, it's worth it when it encourages Correct Thoughts. Perl 5 had less of that, but it was there. 09:27
moritz_ flip645: $x.foo() looks for a 'foo' method in the class of $x, then in the parent class of $x, then in the next parent class etc.
flip645: see also perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/subs-vs-methods.html
flip645 now reading ... 09:28
So that brings us something like this: 09:31
rakudo: (1,2,3).map( &infix:<+>:(Int,Int)(2,*) ).».say
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«3␤4␤5␤»
flip645 rakudo: (1,2,3).map( * + 2 ).».say
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«3␤4␤5␤»
flip645 Who's the rakudo operator? In case I'm doing something stupid. 09:32
moritz_
flip645 Is it a problem if I try (1 .. *).map().».say?
09:33 NorwayGeek left
moritz_ no, there are resource limits, so if you produce an infinite loop it will get killed after a few seconds 09:33
flip645 Fine!
rakudo: (1 .. *).map( * + sleep(1) ).».say
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«!whatever_closure␤»
flip645 rakudo: say sleep(1)
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«0.994981050491333␤»
flip645 rakudo: (1 .. 3).map( * + sleep(1) ).».say 09:34
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1.99465298652649␤2.99465298652649␤3.99465298652649␤»
09:35 NorwayGeek joined
flip645 rakudo: eager (1 .. *).map( * + sleep(1) ).».say 09:35
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«!whatever_closure␤Could not find non-existent sub eager␤»
flip645 not yet implemented, it seems 09:36
Thanks for your time
spinclad 'Ha! mere carbon-based lifeform, you cannot put me to sleep so easil.......'
masak JimmyZ: I see you did the s:i/POD/Pod/ substitution. good. 09:38
JimmyZ: another thing that I noticed is the '=begin podstuff'/'=end podstuff'. that's not right according to S26. 09:39
(because all-lowercase names are reserved)
flip645 Is "augment class" already implemented?
like in
rakudo: augment class Int { method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}};
masak flip645: yes, but as the old 'is also'.
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Re-declaration of type Int at line 2, near ";"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1648)␤»
jnthn flip645: Rakudo curently spells it ....what masak said 09:40
flip645 rakudo: class Int is also { method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}};
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: ( no output )
flip645 rakudo: class Int is also { method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}}; say 4.&infix:<+>(2);
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected Complex, but got Int for $a in call to infix:+␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:881)␤called from Main (/tmp/6yakWXoh7Y:2)␤»
flip645 rakudo: class Int is also { method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}}; say 4.&infix:<+>:(Int,Int)(2);
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected Complex, but got Int for $a in call to infix:+␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:881)␤called from Main (/tmp/LDwDeHJC2Q:2)␤»
jnthn oddness 09:41
flip645 rakudo: class Int is also { method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}}; say 4.Int.&infix:<+>:(Int,Int)(2);
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected Complex, but got Int for $a in call to infix:+␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:881)␤called from Main (/tmp/3p1ktBLjVF:2)␤»
flip645 rakudo: class Int is also { method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}}; say 4.int.&infix:<+>:(Int,Int)(2);
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«the int() sub and .int method have been replaced by the .Int method␤in Main (/tmp/FnbJjsvAq9:2)␤»
flip645 Help?
masak flip645: the error message is telling in itself, I'd say. 09:43
flip645: .int is deprecated.
flip645 ok, but with .Int? and without? 09:44
masak I don't think you need to convert 4 at all.
it's already an Int.
flip645 As soon as that works, we could use introspection to put all defined functions as methods in the classes of their first argument ;-)
Why does it try to call Complex:+ 09:45
masak no idea.
flip645 Doesn't selection via the signature (Int,Int) work?
rakudo: say &infix:<+>:(Int,Int).WHICH;
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«47256741210240␤»
flip645 rakudo: say &infix:<+>:(Int,Int).WHICH; say &infix:<+>:(Num,Num).WHICH;
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«47266217863296␤47266217863296␤» 09:46
flip645 no, returns the same
rakudo: say &infix:<+>:(Int,Int).WHICH; say &infix:<+>:(Complex,Complex).WHICH;
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«47291921664128␤47291921664128␤»
JimmyZ masak: will do.
jnthn Looks like some bug, but I cna't even beging to guess what, and I gotta head out now.
09:48 NorwayGeek left 09:53 NorwayGeek joined
Matt-W argh 10:06
must stop writing Perl 6 constructs in my Perl 5
perl doesn't like it when I leave out the () on my ifs 10:07
Matt-W wants to live in the future
JimmyZ masak: how to fix '=begin podstuff'/'=end podstuff'?
masak: Podstuff? 10:09
flip645 Matt-W: yeah, I'm longing for some perl6 syntax as well ... 10:11
Can someone explain this? 10:15
rakudo: class Int is also { multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}; multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Complex $arg) { return 0; } }; say 3.f(2)
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Method 'f' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤»
flip645 sorry, wrong paste 10:16
rakudo: class Int is also { multi method f(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}; multi method f(Int $self: Complex $arg) { return 0; } }; say 3.f(2)
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«6␤»
flip645 declaring multi methods in a class - works.
But if I substitute "f" with "infix:<+>" it doesn't:
class Int is also { multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}; multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Complex $arg) { return 0; } }; say 3.&infix:<+>(2)
Matt-W Operators don't always behave the same way as methods 10:17
This may or may not be a bug, I'm unsure
flip645 rakudo: class Int is also { multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}; multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Complex $arg) { return 0; } }; say 3.&infix:<+>(2)
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected Complex, but got Int for $a in call to infix:+␤in sub infix:+ (src/gen_setting.pm:881)␤called from Main (/tmp/6XsJJ2yxwW:2)␤»
flip645 Why does it always expand to the most universal type here? In the "f" example it doesn't!
rakudo: class Int is also { multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}; multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Complex $arg) { return 0; } }; say 3+2; 10:18
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«5␤»
Matt-W I'd say file a bug
flip645 rakudo: class Int is also { multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}; multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Complex $arg) { return 0; } }; say &+(3,2);
Matt-W Can't see that should be specced, so it's probably Rakudo doing it wrong
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near " &+(3,2);"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2565)␤»
flip645 rakudo: class Int is also { multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Int $arg) { return $self+$arg+1;}; multi method infix:<+>(Int $self: Complex $arg) { return 0; } }; say &infix:<+>(3,2); 10:19
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«5␤»
flip645 doesn't call me method, ok. because it looks for the function first.
10:20 payload1 left 10:21 jauaor left
colomon errr... rakudo doesn't have any notion that Complex is "the most universal type", does it? 10:22
10:22 am0c left
Matt-W possibly not 10:25
10:27 flip645 left
pugs_svn r28403 | jimmy++ | [Spec]use standard dialect 'Pod' 10:33
10:37 iblechbot left 10:41 JimmyZ left 10:51 jhuni left
masak phenny: tell JimmyZ that yes, '=begin Podstuff' would work. 10:59
phenny masak: I'll pass that on when JimmyZ is around.
masak rakudo: sub foo(@a) { say !@a }; foo(undef); say undef 11:04
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«0␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
masak can someone explain what happens in the sub call? 11:05
first off, why does undef match against a Positional?
second, how is it that negating it gives 0?
rakudo: sub foo(@a) { say @a.WHAT }; foo(undef) 11:06
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Array()␤»
Juerd I wonder what would happen in 2000 years if only a programmer's chat log was preserved, and no other part of our culture. What would the future people think when reading it... Would they realise that bots are actually bots? 11:07
arnsholt They might
masak hard to say.
2000 years is a long time. 11:08
Juerd It's an arbitrary number :)
arnsholt We know a fair bit about the Romans, and the record from back then is kinda sketchy
masak Juerd: it's a very long number, if you adhere to the idea of a technological singularity.
arnsholt Heck, we actually know a little bit about the Proto-Indo-Europeans
masak s/long/large/
arnsholt Based purely on comparative linguistic data 11:09
masak I realized the other week that the next generation will likely grow up surrounded by bots and bot-like entities. 11:10
Juerd Hm
arnsholt Probably
Juerd Could be
11:11 ihrd joined
masak I just extrapolate from what we ahve here in #perl6 to what the rest of the (western) world will have in 30 years. 11:11
11:11 ihrd left 11:15 pmurias joined 11:17 cosimo joined 11:27 NorwayGeek left 11:30 mariuz left
moritz_ Juerd: if the read the HTML version of the logs, they'd surely notice, because they are all marked in the same color 11:37
pmurias diakopter: hi 11:41
masak moritz_: how come an undef argument binds to an @a parameter?
11:42 ruoso left
masak rakudo: class A { has $.bar = "OH HAI"; method Str() { $.bar } }; say A.new.Str 11:42
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak rakudo: class A is Str { has $.bar = "OH HAI"; method Str() { $.bar } }; say A.new.Str
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
masak reports rakudobug 11:43
colomon moritz_: I promised bugs last night and was too tired to report them. So here's the first: 11:46
enum TrigBase <Radians Degrees Gradians Circles>; # Should be "is export" according to spec, but that
constant $?TRIGBASE = Radians; # doesn't compile yet.
moritz_ masak: why is that a bug?
masak moritz_: because it calls the Str method, but the attribute is undef.
colomon Adding that (from the spec) to Any-Num.pm produced a Rakudo that compiled but was completely broken. 11:47
moritz_ masak: A.new ~~ Str, so I don't see why it should call method Str at all
masak moritz_: well, it does.
moritz_ colomon: yes, $? variables aren't supported yet
masak so either way, it's a bug.
moritz_ colomon: a workaround would be to use $TRIGBASE for now
colomon I thought $? was added a few weeks ago? 11:48
masak moritz_: actually, I'd argue that if you define your own .Str method, and then call it, it should be called.
but it is, so that's no problem.
the problem is that $.bar yields undef for some reason.
moritz_ oh wait, you call it explicitly... yeah, sorry 11:49
masak np. it's a confusing bug. 11:50
colomon moritz_: Switching $?TRIGBASE to $TRIGBASE still gets the bug. (ie every single test in make test fails...) 11:51
trying it now without the variable declaration....
11:53 payload joined 11:55 mariuz joined
colomon Same thing. 11:55
masak moritz_: perhaps you'd like to add your updated projects.list graph to the Perl Myths p6l thread? 11:56
lisppaste3 colomon pasted "Error message when TrigBase enum in Any-Num.pm" at paste.lisp.org/display/87706
moritz_ masak: ETOOLATE, afaict Tim already held his talk 11:57
masak moritz_: IIUC, he holds it regularly. besides, it might still be interesting to others.
moritz_ colomon: and that's only with add one 'enum...;' line, no other changes?
colomon yes
moritz_ colomon: please submit a bug report then
masak: ok, I might reply later on
colomon moritz_: will get on that asap 11:58
moritz_: RT #69382 12:02
moritz_ colomon++ 12:03
12:04 KyleHa joined
colomon moritz_: Next issue I had is that Complex.sin dispatches to a Parrot complex.sin function rather than a Perl 6 Complex.sin. 12:10
rakudo: class Complex is also { multi method sin() { say "Hello!"; return self + 1i; }; }; say (1+1i).sin; 12:11
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1.29846+0.634964i␤»
12:13 payload left
moritz_ colomon: pmichaud suggested we write our own Complex class 12:13
12:13 payload joined
moritz_ colomon: which just keeps the real and imaginary part, and then we don't have dispatch issues with that 12:13
and we can delegate to the parrot Complex class in a controlled and meaningful way 12:14
colomon I don't have the mojo to untangle the current Complex from Parrot's, but if one of you could do it I believe I can take a fair stab at implementing Complex purely in Perl 6.
moritz_ class Complex { has $.re; has $.im; ... }; # lots of operator definitions here 12:15
maybe I can get to it in a branch over the weekend
colomon But Complex is defined someplace deep inside Rakudo, isn't it? The setting is "class Complex is also"... 12:16
(Having said that, implementing complex ln and exp scares me a little.... but it would be an interesting project, for sure.) 12:17
masak I just upped the priority on rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=66552 and added it as a dependency of the 'High priority tickets' RT ticket. 12:18
moritz_ masak: I think we "just" need to move the operators to the setting to fix that 12:19
masak er. 12:20
is that the easiest way to solve it?
moritz_ rakudo: multi sub infix:<+> ($l,$r) { $l ~ $r }; say( 1 + 2 ) 12:21
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«3␤»
12:23 KyleHa left 12:26 JimmyZ joined 12:27 NorwayGeek joined
JimmyZ bad plenny 12:30
phenny JimmyZ: 10:59Z <masak> tell JimmyZ that yes, '=begin Podstuff' would work.
masak JimmyZ: she only reports when you say something.
JimmyZ ...
pugs_svn r28404 | jimmy++ | [Spec/S02-bits.pod]use standard dialect 'Pod' 12:33
colomon moritz_: Third bug(?): If I define multi sub sin(Complex $x) in setting/Complex.pm, trig.t doesn't see it. But if I define it in trig.t, it works just fine.
Is there something "special" that needs to be done to export subs from the setting?
moritz_ no, nothing 12:34
I guess it's just general Complex weirdness
12:34 payload1 joined
colomon I guess if the thought is seriously to split Complex away from the Parrot version, it's probably worth tabling this last one until after that is done. 12:35
BTW, one thing I don't understand with the trig functions is how any of the sub versions work. All I see is definitions for the method versions. (Not counting the above Complex definitions I've made.) 12:37
I know there is "is export" on the method definitions, but as I understand it, that means a sub Num::sin should be defined, rather than just plain sin.
12:41 payload left
moritz_ it means that a sub is created automatically from the method 12:42
12:43 SmokeMachine joined
colomon moritz_: But as I understand it, that sub is not in the general namespace. Num.sin is export would generate Num::sin rather than just sin. 12:43
moritz_ colomon: right. But the session is magically exporting everything 12:44
colomon moritz_: "session"?
moritz_ setting 12:45
sorry
colomon ah.
that would certainly explain everything, I think. I suspect I was trying "is export" with Complex, which seems to have other issues causing trouble.
12:53 pmurias left, crythias joined 12:54 payload1 left 12:59 dakkar left 13:09 crythias left 13:11 JimmyZ_ joined 13:12 nihiliad joined 13:16 jferrero left 13:17 JimmyZ left, JimmyZ_ is now known as JimmyZ 13:20 NorwayGeek is now known as NorwayGeek|Away 13:23 payload joined
TiMBuS how do you turn a list into a hash in perl 6? i ended up making an array of pairs :| 13:24
i guess you dont use map $_ => 1
moritz_ you can, yes
13:25 awwaiid left
TiMBuS i should just implement KeyHash and co. 13:25
moritz_ but you also have to assign it to a hash
or coerce it, like %( ... )
TiMBuS its a HoH
oh
moritz_ rakudo: say %( <a b c> Z 1..3 ).perl
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«{"c" => 3, "a" => 1, "b" => 2}␤»
TiMBuS so, do i still need to convert it to pairs
moritz_ you don't have to 13:26
if you have an even-sized list of non-pair values, you can just coerce it to hash
in the example above, the zip operator doesn't emit pairs
rakudo: my @a = 'a' .. 'd'; say %( @a Z (1 xx @a)).perl 13:27
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«{"a" => 1, "b" => 1, "c" => 1, "d" => 1}␤»
TiMBuS it doesnt? i thought it.. oh it emits something like (a, 1), (b, 2).. which flattens out or something 13:28
moritz_ right.
masak ideally, yes.
right now, it only emits flat things, methinks.
frettled It's better to emit than omit. ;)
moritz_ rakudo: my $x = (1, 2) Z (3, 4); say $x.perl 13:29
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«[1, 3, 2, 4]␤»
moritz_ rakudo: .perl.say for (1, 2) Z (3, 4)
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1␤3␤2␤4␤»
TiMBuS i really should just implement KeyHash instead
moritz_ looks as flat as can be :-)
TiMBuS speaking of which, in what sense are Bag and Set immutable? 13:32
im guessing its just, once they're set, they cant change their contents? 13:33
moritz_ right.
TiMBuS but can you set the container itself to something else? 13:34
moritz_ yes
just like with numbers
13:34 zerhash joined
moritz_ Integers are also immutable 13:34
you can't modify 42
TiMBuS heh
moritz_ but you can modify a variable holding 42
TiMBuS is there a reason for that? immutable strings and stuff make sense, but ints.. hmm 13:36
make a copy every time you inc
moritz_ how would you modify 42 then? 13:38
TiMBuS in place, id guess. hm maybe im confusing myself with low level implementation vs conceptual 13:40
moritz_ immutability in this case just means that if you do 'my $x = 42; my $y = $x' and then do *anything* with $x, $y is still 42
wheras if you have a mutable object, let's say an array 13:41
13:41 Matt-W left
moritz_ rakudo: my $x = [4, 2]; my $y = $x; $x.push: ' 23'; say $y 13:41
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«4 2 23␤»
TiMBuS woah. didnt know arrays worked like that in p6. surprised that hasnt bit me yet 13:42
oddly i knew that they were passed by reference so 13:43
that should have been obvious..
moritz_ note that if you use @-sigiled variables the assignment does shallow copying 13:44
so @a = @b does no aliasing
TiMBuS oh..
13:45 iblechbot joined
TiMBuS i guess that makes sense. so applying that to the way it looks how the sigils act, $a = @b would not copy @b? 13:49
moritz_ rakudo: my @b = 1, 2,3; my $a = @b; @b.push: 5; say $a 13:50
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1 2 3 5␤»
moritz_ TiMBuS: rakudo thinks the same :-)
masak perl6: my @b = 1, 2,3; my $a = @b; @b.push: 5; say $a 13:51
p6eval elf 28404: OUTPUT«123␤»
..pugs, rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1 2 3 5␤»
masak wonders whither to submit an elfbug 13:52
13:56 Matt-W joined
Matt-W mutters about unreliable hosting companies 14:01
jnthn hates those
moritz_ masak: where would you submit it to?
Matt-W They took down the network for 'emergency maintenance' with 0 notice
jnthn fail 14:02
Matt-W I'm hard-pressed to think of a situation so bad that such a thing can be necessary unless everybody's already offline
pmichaud good morning, #perl6
masak moritz_: don't know, really. a TODO list in the pugs repo somewhere, p'haps.
pmichaud: o/ 14:03
pmichaud: PGE day today?
pmichaud definitely.
jnthn pmichaud++
masak \o/
Matt-W \o/
moritz_ "write a grammar engine in a day" 14:05
Matt-W he already wrote a grammar engine
I thought the point was to make it even better
moritz_ time for one more, it seems :-)
Matt-W like, protoregexes and LTM
moritz_ Matt-W: from what pmichaud said yesterday it looked like a complete rewrite (or complete new write) rather than a big refactor 14:06
masak moritz_: no, it's a big refactor. 14:07
moritz_ ok
masak the point is to keep things working during the whole process, IIUC.
TimToady sometimes those can look kinda like complete rewrites :)
that was how the P4 -> P5 transition went 14:08
pmichaud it's more of a complete rewrite than a refactor, now.
Matt-W Sometimes you start off with a refactor 14:09
and end up with a rewrite
Matt-W wasn't around for the P4->P5 transition
14:09 ispy_ joined
pmichaud I think it's going to be too difficult to try to preserve PGE's existing interfaces, so easier to just write a new subsystem with new interfaces 14:09
then other systems can migrate from PGE to the new system on their own schedule 14:10
(similar to how things moved from TGE to PCT when it was created)
masak sounds like a rather big change. 14:11
will it go on in a Parrot branch?
pmichaud it is. but we'll end up with something much more modular, maintainable, etc.
and possibly even more portable. :-)
Matt-W Portable how?
to other VMs? 14:12
pmichaud portable to other backends
yeah
Matt-W ooooh
PCT for .NET :D
masak PCT for the JVM.
pmichaud that is on my radar, yes.
(it's not yet an explicit target, but it's something I tend to keep in mind)
one very interesting question, though, is whether we want the grammar engine stuff to be "owned" by the Parrot Foundation or by TPF or .... 14:13
Matt-W Hmm
I shall stay out of that one I think
pmichaud masak: (branch) I'm thinking I may just develop it in Parrot trunk
masak pmichaud: oki 14:14
well, it's SVN, not git. otherwise I'd have protested. :)
pmichaud heh
you would've protested it going into an svn branch?
TimToady pmichaud: you can always just copyright it under your name until you decide 14:15
pmichaud TimToady: if I copyright it under my name, it really shouldn't go into the parrot repo
masak pmichaud: no, I'd have protested it not going into a git branch. :)
14:15 alester joined
pmichaud I'll have to go re-read the CLA terms about copyright ownership 14:16
TimToady I'm sure it doesn't say they own everything you write :)
14:17 rfordinal left
jnthn As I understood it, it's more of a "collective copyright" that is held. 14:17
That is, you don't lose your rights to the code as a result of signing the CLA.
pmichaud looks like that's correct 14:18
why then does all of the code in the repo hold a PaFo copyright notice?
14:18 rfordinal joined
pmichaud PaFo can't claim copyright in code it doesn't own. 14:19
TimToady well, they can if it was given to them 14:20
pmichaud sure
TimToady but then they "own" it, I suppose 14:21
pmichaud anyway, I'll go ahead and stick a few copyright notices into these new pieces just in case 14:24
masak what's the interaction between the PaFo license and ported code? 14:26
14:27 NorwayGeek|Away left
pmichaud code coming from parrot repo is AL2 14:27
14:27 elmex_ joined, elmex left 14:28 elmex_ is now known as elmex, NorwayGeek joined
masak ah. nice. 14:28
NorwayGeek O.o 14:30
14:31 mberends joined
masak mberends: \o/ 14:31
Matt-W masak: the other thing that gets me writing Perl 5 is what .= means
mberends (ahoy: masak).reverse 14:32
masak Matt-W: I don't think I'm bothered by that either.
rakudo: say <ahoy : masak>.reverse.perl
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«["masak", ":", "ahoy"]␤»
mberends heh
14:33 Psyche^ joined, justatheory joined
jnthn ahoj, mberends :-) 14:33
jnthn is liking Korea lots. 14:34
Matt-W \o/
good food?
masak mmm, Korean food.
jnthn yes, awesome food 14:35
Spicy!
14:36 Patterner left, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
mberends o/ jnthn, glad you're having a great roamabout 14:36
it's high time proto gets the benefit of TDD, the beginnings of that are forming in some new TODOs 14:37
developing without tests sux
masak :/
I'm getting ready to take tote by the reins. right now I'm having a lot of fun with Squerl, though. 14:38
but I could easily make a blog post already containing just positive responses from people re tote.
14:39 rfordinal left
cognominal squerl? 14:39
masak cognominal: oh, I'm porting this for Web.pm: sequel.rubyforge.org/
cognominal nice 14:40
masak yes, it's very possibly the nicest Ruby project I've ever seen.
it already works, and I'm using all the free time I have to implement more tests. 14:41
s/implement/pass/
14:42 JimmyZ_ joined 14:46 JimmyZ left, JimmyZ_ is now known as JimmyZ 14:48 mberends left
TimToady rakudo: say sleep(.1) 14:49
14:49 payload left
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«0.10144305229187␤» 14:49
TimToady heh
rakudo: say sleep(.1)
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«0.101404905319214␤»
14:53 TiMBuS left
masak rakudo: say schlep(.1) 14:53
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub schlep␤»
masak .oO( use Yiddish; ) 14:54
huf that would own sooo much tho 14:55
arnsholt I'd prefer use Latin, to be honest. Or perhaps use Cuneiform =D
mdxi $sth->schlepall_arrayref
huf arrOY! :)
masak mdxi: that's $sth.schlepall_arroyref with a dot, even in Yiddish. :) 14:56
mdxi my bad. i hang out here to soak up the perl6, but i still think in perl5 :) 14:59
masak no shame in that. :) just means you're well versed in Perl 5. 15:00
Matt-W As I was talking about earlier, I'm a little too versed in Perl 6 in some ways...
masak Matt-W: in my experience, it gets easier the more you switch. 15:01
Matt-W masak: Yes I think it probably does, rather like C and F fingering recorders. Learn one, learn the other, then play them both regularly and you can easily swap. 15:02
Matt-W -> home -> aikido & 15:03
jnthn Aye, I rite 5 and 6 regularly. 15:08
erm, write
I find it's more 6-isms in my 5 code than 5-isms in my 6. 15:09
15:10 tak11 joined 15:11 payload joined
mdxi i should probably be a good citizen and get involved with test writing and such 15:12
colomon Matt-W: do they have transposing music for F recorders (ala alto and tenor sax), or do you actually think of different note names for the same fingering?
TimToady sure, just play sax music on your recorder :P 15:13
lucs_ colomon: The latter, you think of different fingerings for the same note. 15:19
(er, when reading a score that is.) 15:21
colomon ouch, that must hurt the brain. 15:22
lucs_ I play the flute only (and a bit of C recorders), and I've never had the courage to learn the others :-( 15:23
(drove me nuts) 15:24
15:24 tak11 left, tak11 joined 15:25 jan_ left
colomon I've done a fair bit of transposing in my day, and of course have whistles in about nine keys, but I always think of it in terms of my "base" fingering and figure out a way to con whatever I'm reading into that. (Like reading clarinet music by pretending it is in tenor clef.) 15:28
jnthn -> sleep 15:29
lucs_ colomon: That'll do it :)
15:31 ejs1 left
masak mdxi: I find 'should' is not the best of motivators. I tend to just play around with Perl 6, until something motivates me to improve it somehow. -Ofun. 15:33
15:35 sparc left 15:40 ejs joined 15:43 masak left 15:44 Student joined 15:48 FCO joined
pugs_svn r28405 | jimmy++ | [zh-cn/syn/S02-bits.pod]add a bit more Chinese transcript for Lexical Conventions 15:54
moritz_ I found one more case where an exception (?) makes a say() fail silently 15:58
does anybody remeber the ticket number, or a keyword I could search for?
16:00 M_o_C joined 16:01 M_o_C left
pugs_svn r28406 | jimmy++ | [zh-cn/syn/S02-bits.pod]fixed Chinese term. 16:01
16:02 JimmyZ left 16:05 ruoso joined 16:06 SmokeMachine left 16:08 abra joined 16:09 mariuz left
moritz_ just wanted to prepare a blog post about introspection, and immediately found a bug 16:10
sigh
this feels like 2008 all over again ;-)
16:11 mariuz joined
colomon moritz_: Was it RT #68960? 16:11
moritz_ colomon: yes, probably. I just created a new one ;-) 16:12
16:20 NorwayGeek left
moritz_ rakudo: class A { method b() { say "in A.b" } }; A.new.^methods(:local).[0].() 16:21
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 2 params expected␤in method A::b (/tmp/hn2RrqXw9M:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/hn2RrqXw9M:2)␤»
moritz_ rakudo: class A { method b() { say "in A.b" } }; A.new.^methods(:local).[0].(A.new)
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«in A.b␤»
moritz_ should the first one work?
16:27 zerhash left 16:31 abra left 16:32 jan_ joined
TimToady no, how is it supposed to know what self is? 16:32
moritz_ it's passed to .methods
ruoso just replied to moritz_'s mail
moritz_ why shouldn't it know it?
TimToady it's a different method call 16:33
moritz_ how so?
TimToady method calls don't magically know the self from the 2nd call back
$foo.bar.baz doesn't tell baz what $foo is
moritz_ I mean $obj.^methods() is short for $obj.HOW.methods($obj), no?
TimToady yes, but that doesn't distribute to either .[] or .() 16:34
16:34 mariuz left
moritz_ well, .^methods could return list of methods that know their invocant 16:34
the question is not if it's possible, but if we want it
TimToady also, I'm not sure either of them should work if methods returns method descriptors
ruoso moritz_, you are assuming the meta method always work in the context of a given object 16:35
but a meta method can be inespecific to any given object
TimToady note also that you're calling the method using a function invocation, not a method invocation
16:35 donaldh left
moritz_ ok, that pretty much answers my question 16:35
mostly ;-) 16:36
ruoso if the meta is XMLRPCHow, it might have methods such as $foo.^remote_port
TimToady in fact, dispatchers dispatch by calling candidates as functions
16:36 abra joined
moritz_ my mental model was that there's a class Method (or so) that has methods like .signature, .name, .multi etc 16:37
and that a class holds such Method objects
and introspection simply returns those
ruoso that is true, if the meta is specific to each class 16:38
moritz_ does that roughly match your mental models?
ruoso but a meta might be more prototype-oriented
16:38 stephenlb joined
moritz_ I don't understand why it has to be specific to each class to do that 16:38
ruoso it would if the second argument to the metamethods weren't the object in question 16:39
moritz_ this is me again, asking wierd questions instead of going back to blogging ;-) 16:40
ruoso Foo.^methods map to Foo.HOW.methods(Foo) because Foo.HOW might be used by several other classes
TimToady we want you to blog with the correct weird answers :)
moritz_ TimToady: :-)
TimToady basically, all methods are called as &method.($self...) by the dispatcher 16:41
16:42 KyleHa joined
TimToady except, of course, that &method is probably not in a symbol table or lexical scope 16:42
(unless you explicitly say "my method" or "our method") 16:43
moritz_ right
so the only real difference is how they are looked up
TimToady yes, everything is really a sub underneath
and ruoso curses the day I decided that :)
well, he was unhappy at the time, anyway :) 16:44
ruoso already got over it ;)
ruoso is now trying to swallow the Parcel 16:45
moritz_ ah, one of the major offenses you talked about ;-)
16:45 saran joined
TimToady indeed 16:45
pmichaud TimToady: S05/spec question... 16:47
if I invoke a regex directly, what do I get back?
TimToady define "invoke"
pmichaud example: my $foo = regex { foo }; $foo(...)
does that give me back a Match object? 16:48
...or a cursor?
...or a list of cursors?
TimToady probably gives you a Cursor that can pretend to be a Match
pmichaud ...or is it impl-dependent?
TimToady note that this is like: 16:49
16:49 payload left
TimToady my $foo = method { ...}; $foo(...) 16:49
meaning that $foo($cursor: ...) is really what is wanted
pmichaud okay.
ruoso (Cursor that pretends to be a Match)++ 16:50
TimToady if $cursor is the result of a previous match, and we haven't denatured the Cursor to pure Match, it should work
or Match can respawn a Cursor at need 16:51
pmichaud I like that latter one
here's what I'd find a bit odd (more)
grammar A { regex TOP { foo } }; my $match = A.parse('foo'); say $match ~~ A; # true 16:52
TimToady yes, a match knows what language it is 16:53
pmichaud okay
TimToady well, a cursor does
pmichaud right, I know that a cursor does; just wanted to make sure that we're comfortable with Match objects acting like "does grammar"
(PGE currently has this feature as well... checking to see if it's legit)
16:54 am0c joined
pmichaud and with 16:54
grammar A { regex TOP { foo }; regex bar { bar }; } my $match = A.parse('foo'); my $b = $match.bar(); # $b is a valid match object?
sorry, parse 'foobar' instead of just 'foo' 16:55
grammar A { regex TOP { foo }; regex bar { bar }; }; my $match = A.parse('foobar'); my $b = $match.bar(); # $b is a valid match object?
TimToady I think so; it's up to TOP to enforce $ constraint, and this one doesn't 16:57
pmichaud okay
16:57 [particle] joined
pmichaud this last one is kind of edge-case-y, I don't need a definitive ruling on it yet 16:57
TimToady likewise grammar A might call down into a callback that deals in A's cursors
pmichaud s/is/was/ 16:58
your answers give me enough to be "close enough" for now
TimToady "this" is always a bit dodgy in English :)
pmichaud anyway, regexes are methods that want cursors as invocants and return a "cursor pretends Match" as a result 16:59
here's one that PGE currently has difficult with, though
[particle] $_ is less dodgy? 17:00
pmichaud grammar A { regex TOP { foo }; regex orig { bar }; }; my $match = A.parse('foobar'); my $b = $match.orig(); # $b is a valid match object?
or
grammar A { regex TOP { foo }; regex from { bar }; }; my $match = A.parse('foobar'); my $b = $match.from(); # $b is a valid match object?
saran can anyone give me a link for the implementation of hash in perl6 ?
moritz_ erm, isn't .orig a Str and .from a StrPos? 17:01
pmichaud moritz_: yes, that's why this example is difficult. :)
we end up with a conflict between cursor methods and match methods
that's why PGE doesn't currently work well for grammars that attempt to define 'from', 'to', 'orig', etc. regexes
the question becomes... when a Cursor pretends to be a Match, do the Match methods override the Cursor ones? 17:03
(I'm okay if the answer is "yes"... just would like it to be explicitly "yes" :-)
but we also run into an issue with 17:05
grammar A { regex TOP { <b> }; regex b { foo }; regex from { bar }; }; my $match = A.parse('foobar'); 17:06
or, more hurtful:
grammar A { regex TOP { <b> }; regex b { foo <from> }; regex from { bar }; }; my $match = A.parse('foobar'); 17:07
grammar A { regex TOP { <b> <from> }; regex b { foo }; regex from { bar }; }; my $match = A.parse('foobar');
if the subrule call to <b> gives us back "a Cursor pretending to be a match", we might run into difficulties when we try to call the <from> subrule using that cursor. 17:08
TimToady make the bad man go away... 17:09
pmichaud I had been somewhat leaning towards "regex always returns a Cursor, and one can get a Match object out of the cursor"
i.e., we could do $cursor.match
17:10 NorwayGeek joined
pmichaud since most invocations of regexes are indirect (via smartmatch, .parse, etc.), that might not be too onerous 17:10
TimToady that makes more sense than always requiring a .cursor 17:11
well, now you can't have a rule <match> :) 17:12
pmichaud okay, .MATCH
TimToady .MATCH
currently Cursor stores from and to as .<_from> and .<_to> actually
pmichaud I figured that was implementation more than spec
17:13 rfordinal joined
TimToady yeah, though it leaks here and there 17:13
pmichaud right
PGE and PCT do similar "we treat hash elements like attributes" tricks as well, which also leak
I've also been working with the idea that instead of each Cursor having its own copy of the "match object", that it simply carries a pointer to the current Match object 17:15
Match objects are immutable during the match
well, as far as the engine is concerned, they're immutable
whenever we add something to the match object, we simply create a new Match object that holds the addition and set the cursor to use that new Match object
if we backtrack out of the cursor, we end up with the previous match 17:16
also, I've been looking at doing cursors as linked lists instead of arrays of cursors 17:19
i.e., each cursor has a reference to the cursor that spawned it
TimToady whoops, kid to school & 17:20
pmichaud okay, lunch here
I'll keep going with some of these ideas and see where things end up. I'm hoping to blog about design notes each day.
or every couple of days.
since there's a lot of interest in the topic, it'll be easier for me to develop a design/implementation guide that way 17:21
afk, lunch
17:23 dukeleto joined 17:25 dukeleto left, Zloyrusskiy joined 17:32 tak11 left 17:33 jaldhar left 17:36 molaf_x left 17:41 ejs left, zerhash joined 17:43 saran left 17:47 gbacon joined 17:48 tak11 joined, NorwayGeek left, NorwayGeek joined 18:03 ejs joined 18:06 MrRandom joined, mberends joined 18:07 tak11 left
MrRandom how to update my rakudo to the newest from git (and also Parrot from svn)? 18:07
18:10 MrRandom left 18:13 Zloyrusskiy left 18:14 ejs left 18:18 ejs joined 18:23 ispy__ joined 18:26 ejs left 18:33 ejs joined 18:35 ispy_ left 18:39 Student left
mberends rakudo: "$_-{$_.uc}".say for <foo bar baz> 18:42
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«foo-FOO␤bar-BAR␤baz-BAZ␤»
mberends rakudo: "$p-{$p.uc}".say for <foo bar baz> -> $p
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "-> $p"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
pmichaud the -> $p always goes with the block 18:43
mberends rakudo: { "$p-{$p.uc}".say } for <foo bar baz> -> $p
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "-> $p"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
pmichaud -> $p { "$p-{$p.uc}".say } for <foo bar baz>;
mberends sorry
pmichaud rakudo: -> $p { "$p-{$p.uc}".say } for <foo bar baz>;
mberends thanks
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: ( no output )
pmichaud eh, it's busted. :)
anyway, with for @list -> $x { ... }
the "-> $x" is part of the block, not the for 18:44
mberends it was different in a script: said Confused, but worked anyway
pmichaud heh
rakudo: (-> $p { "$p-{$p.uc}".say }).($_) for <foo bar baz>;
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«foo-FOO␤bar-BAR␤baz-BAZ␤»
pmichaud there.
mberends :-) not the elegant golf I was aiming for 18:45
pmichaud okay
rakudo: "$^p->{$^p.uc}".say for <foo bar baz>; 18:46
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 1 param expected␤in Main (/tmp/FtPDB8Gde9:0)␤»
pmichaud hmmmmmm
mberends tried $^p a few ways
pmichaud rakudo: "$^p-{$^p.uc}".say for <foo bar baz>;
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 1 param expected␤in Main (/tmp/e33Vgp82au:0)␤»
pmichaud rakudo: ($^p~"-{$^p.uc}")say for <foo bar baz>;
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say for <f"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤» 18:47
pmichaud oh, yes
that's right, $^p wouldn't work there either
TimToady I hope you're not thinking that the inside $^p is the same as the outside one
pmichaud right
I was, I'm not.
mberends rakudo: {$^p~"-{$^p.uc}".say } for <foo bar baz>;
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 1 param expected␤in Main (/tmp/uxZTWfyTkS:2)␤»
mberends nah
pmichaud inside of the curlies, the $^p isn't the same as the one in the string
and the one in the string isn't the argument from for, it's $^p in the outer block 18:48
TimToady why do you want a double closure?
pmichaud (i.e., the block containing the for)
mberends no, no want double closure
pmichaud goes back to doing grammar engine work, which is much less confusing. :)
mberends rakudo: for <foo bar baz> -> $p { "$p-{$p.uc}".say } # was trying to turn this around 18:50
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«foo-FOO␤bar-BAR␤baz-BAZ␤»
pmichaud map.
mberends yes.
18:51 szabgab left
pmichaud rakudo: .say for <foo bar baz>.map({"$^p-{$^p.uc}"}); 18:51
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 1 param expected␤in method Any::map (/tmp/EiB41e5L7Y:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/EiB41e5L7Y:2)␤»
pmichaud bah. 18:52
diakopter humbug.
TimToady rakudo: .say for <foo bar baz>.map({"$^p-$($^p.uc)");
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Can't use $ as non-variable in interpolated string at line 2, near "$($^p.uc)\""␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
18:53 ejs left
TimToady std: .say for <foo bar baz>.map({"$^p-$($^p.uc)"); 18:53
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at /tmp/X9BLPA2nBe line 1:␤------> y for <foo bar baz>.map({"$^p-$($^p.uc)"⏏);␤ expecting any of:␤ standard stopper␤ statement modifier loop␤ terminator␤ whitespace␤FAILED
..00:02 97m␤»
TimToady std: .say for <foo bar baz>.map({"$^p-$($^p.uc)"});
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 97m␤»
mberends rakudo: <foo bar baz>.map({"$_-{$_.uc}"})>>.say
TimToady rakudo: .say for <foo bar baz>.map({"$^p-$($^p.uc)"});
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«foo-FOO␤bar-BAR␤baz-BAZ␤»
rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Can't use $ as non-variable in interpolated string at line 2, near "$($^p.uc)\""␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
diakopter rakudo: .say for <foo bar baz>.map({"$^p-" ~ $($^p.uc)});
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«foo-FOO␤bar-BAR␤baz-BAZ␤»
TimToady I lose 18:54
mberends .map++
the actual line was: for @projects -> $p { say "$p: {$.ecosystem.get-state($p)}"; } 18:56
TimToady rakudo: .say for <foo bar baz>.map({"$^p-&Str($^p.uc)"});
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«foo-&Str(foo.uc)␤bar-&Str(bar.uc)␤baz-&Str(baz.uc)␤»
pmichaud heh 18:57
TimToady heh
so much for the & approach
pmichaud so far rakudo only knows $ interpolation
diakopter rakudo: say 1+<&map
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«2␤»
diakopter rakudo: urban 18:58
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub urban␤»
mberends the old jokes never die 18:59
TimToady they just smell that way 19:00
mberends :-)
diakopter rakudo: trahend 19:01
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub trahend␤»
19:01 diakopter was kicked by TimToady (TimToady))
pmichaud rakudo: stantial 19:01
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub stantial␤»
19:01 pmichaud was kicked by TimToady (TimToady)) 19:02 pmichaud joined
mberends now who's laughing? 19:02
TimToady sorry, my finger slipped
pmichaud :)
19:03 ChanServ sets mode: -o TimToady
pmichaud rakudo: trans stantiate 19:03
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub stantiate␤»
19:03 diakopter joined 19:04 ChanServ sets mode: -o jnthn, ChanServ sets mode: -o Juerd, ChanServ sets mode: -o moritz_, ChanServ sets mode: -o PerlJam 19:05 pmurias joined
mberends rakudo: verted-channel-perl6 19:06
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub verted-channel-perl6␤»
19:06 ChanServ sets mode: +o PerlJam, ChanServ sets mode: +o moritz_
mberends WHOZ OP 19:06
19:06 ChanServ sets mode: +o Juerd, ChanServ sets mode: +o jnthn, ChanServ sets mode: +o pmichaud, ChanServ sets mode: +o TimToady
diakopter rakudo: sub sub {1}; say sub; 19:08
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Malformed routine definition at line 2, near ";"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
TimToady std: sub sub {1}; say sub; 19:09
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block at /tmp/wTKGVZect5 line 1:␤------> sub sub {1}; say sub⏏;␤ expecting any of:␤ block␤ name␤ nofun␤ routine_def␤ terminator␤ trait␤ whitespace␤FAILED 00:01 98m␤»
TimToady std: sub sub {1}; say sub();
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 95m␤»
TimToady rakudo: sub sub {1}; say sub(); 19:10
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady sub is one of the rare keywords that doesn't require \s
diakopter rakudo: package package { say ::package } 19:14
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'iterator'␤in sub say (src/gen_setting.pm:1362)␤called from Main (/tmp/SCXWSNdfcI:2)␤»
mberends TimToady: for @a { ... } else { ... } # is fiction, right? 19:17
TimToady yes
mberends ok, thanx
TimToady for @a or void ... { ... } 19:19
or
for @a { ... } or void ... 19:20
nyi, likly
*likely
rakudo: void say "yes"
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«yes␤Could not find non-existent sub void␤»
pmichaud /kick TimToady # oh wait, he wasn't trying another sub pun 19:21
diakopter rakudo: say loop (;;){ break }
TimToady my next trick will be to report that error message as a bug
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«␤Null PMC access in can()␤in Main (/tmp/DaBR69hwOG:2)␤»
diakopter but can he do the can can 19:22
rakudo: loop (;;break){} 19:23
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: 19:24
..OUTPUT«␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤􏿽xE2
diakopter my eyes, my eyes!
mberends diakopter: give us a break!
diakopter heh
that's what I was trying to do
Tene rakudo: break;
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«␤» 19:25
Tene rakudo: loop (;;last){}
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: ( no output )
diakopter :)
TimToady std: loop (;;){}
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 98m␤»
TimToady hmm
that shouldn't be allowed
diakopter rakudo: loop (;;){} 19:26
oh, weird.
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: ( no output )
diakopter :) p6eval replied with something (not timeout)
o wait
rakudo: say loop (;;){}
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 3 params expected␤in Main (/tmp/vlOITeceK0:2)␤»
TimToady std: say loop (;;){} 19:27
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤ loop used at line 1␤ok 00:01 95m␤»
diakopter o
TimToady std: say loop{} 19:28
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤ loop used at line 1␤ok 00:01 95m␤»
TimToady std: say loop {} 19:29
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤ loop used at line 1␤ok 00:01 95m␤»
TimToady std: say do loop {}
p6eval std 28379: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 95m␤»
diakopter rakudo: loop (;last if last;){ say 3 }
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«␤Null PMC access in get_bool()␤in Main (/tmp/F07UQSwhAc:2)␤»
pmichaud afk # kid pickup 19:30
diakopter whenever I read "Null PMC access" all I can hear in my mind is "null pointer exception"
TimToady to be consistent with other loops it should really not allow you to leave out the space before the {}
diakopter rakudo: loop (;;say 3,last){ say 3 } 19:33
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«3␤»
diakopter just looking for clarification - does last immediately leave or post-statement leave
probably a S has the answer 19:34
pmichaud I'd somewhat expect "last" there to leave whatever construct the loop is in
i.e.,: for @foo { loop (;;say 3,last) { say 4 } } # I think the "last" affects the outer "for" 19:35
diakopter rakudo: my $a = 2; loop (;;){ say ++$a,last,++$a }; say $a; 19:37
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«3␤»
diakopter rakudo: my $a = 0; loop (;;){ say $a, (last if $a++) }; say $a; 19:39
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
diakopter the first say is missing?
rakudo: my $a = 0; loop (;;){ say $a; say $a, (last if $a++) }; say $a; 19:41
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«0␤1␤1␤2␤»
diakopter \./ 19:42
er, um |.|
I mean, what's the symbol for arms-raised-palms-up-in-ignorance 19:46
as in, "someone please tell me where I'm wrong here, or explain what's going on" 19:47
TimToady rakudo: my $a = 0; say $a, $a++ 19:48
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«10␤»
diakopter RTL? 19:49
TimToady no, think what's happening with references
19:49 crythias joined
diakopter oh, a capture? 19:49
I mean, parcel.
TimToady $a can't know whether it's going to be bound rw
so it doesn't actually look up its value till the slurpy does it 19:50
by then $a++ has already run
diakopter rakudo: my $a = 0; say ++$a, $a++, $a 19:53
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«212␤»
19:54 nihiliad1 joined 19:56 Matt-W left
diakopter my question with 0112 was that the second "0" is missing from the output. as in: 19:59
rakudo: my $a = 0; loop (;;){ say $a; say $a, (last if $a++) };
p6eval rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«0␤1␤1␤»
diakopter shouldn't $a get to the 2nd say() when $a is 0?
crythias say, say say what you want but don't play games with my affection. 20:03
TimToady it does, but it's 1
that was my point
you increment $a++ before the second say can read 0 from $a 20:04
diakopter ooohh. ok. I was misremembering... *now* my question *was* (:)) then the final "2" is missing from that output
if last doesn't leave immediately
TimToady the last also runs before the say 20:05
20:05 Student joined
diakopter does 'last' mean 'jump to the end of this loop after the innermost statement surrounding the expression last is in is finished' or 'jump now' 20:05
Tene It currently means the latter in rakudo, and I've seen no indication tha tit should mean otherwise. 20:06
diakopter oky doky 20:07
Tene My initial inclination is that the former would be confusing and awkward.
crythias perl6: It's a hammer in search of a screw. 20:09
p6eval elf 28406: OUTPUT«Parse error in: /tmp/UhuRBUZWlj␤panic at line 1 column 0 (pos 0): Can't understand next input--giving up␤WHERE: It's a hammer in search of a s␤WHERE:/\<-- HERE␤ STD_red/prelude.rb:99:in `panic'␤ STD_red/std.rb:76:in `scan_unitstopper'␤ STD_red/std.rb:224:in `comp_unit'␤
..STD_red…
..rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "'"␤ expecting "::", dot, ":", "(", term postfix or operator␤ at /tmp/ro6CWkxL5O line 1, column 3␤»
diakopter cackles
20:09 hudnix left 20:11 tak11 joined, nihiliad left
TimToady 'z' xx *; & 20:11
20:27 dukeleto joined, __ash__ joined 20:28 crythias left 20:37 Matt-W joined
Matt-W colomon: re C and F recorders, you learn different notes, the music is written at concert pitch. Recorders in G and D are rarer, and sometimes they're written transposing for the sake of the players 20:44
20:44 xomas_ joined
Matt-W colomon: some people do play an F recorder by transposing in their heads at sight to C though... 20:45
lucs_ Matt-W: Do you mean that they manage to "see" the printed note a fourth below (or maybe a fifth above)? 21:02
Matt-W lucs_: pretty much, yes. They see a written G and they manage to convert that to a D and finger what would be a D on a C recorder and they get a G 21:03
lucs_ Hmm... 21:04
Matt-W I don't know how they do it
but the ones who are really good can use the same technique to play instruments in D and G without much effort, which is handy
I'd have to have transposed music or relearn the fingerings again
I play C and F as different instruments, essentially 21:05
and I can play F instruments from treble or bass clef, need to learn to read that for C instruments so I can play great bass more easily
21:06 am0c left
lucs_ ftw :) 21:06
Matt-W more concerned right now in learning to read lute from score 21:07
lucs_ How are those tuned compared to a guitar? 21:08
(And they have more strings maybe?)
Matt-W my lute has eight courses, seven of which are double strung 21:09
the first six are tuned the same as a tenor viol - GDAFCG (descending), then two more at F and D
lucs_ (I should wikipedia, but thanks!)
Matt-W the basic renaissance lute is six courses, but a lot of Dowland's music requires seven and sometimes eight or nine 21:10
my teacher keeps saying it should be easy for me to read score because it's the same as a tenor viol 21:11
but he forgets that I play bass viol, and that's got a different set of strings
lucs_ Do you have to tweak the tuning when playing in different keys or is it tuned equal tempered?
Matt-W I've been using vilotti temprement - it's what I use on my viol and it seems to work 21:12
I don't know what my teacher would use though, I've not spoken to him about it much
lucs_ Oookay :)
Matt-W I know equal temprement sounds hideous though
(and I can't spell, I know)
lucs_ Well, equal temperament turned out to be a useful compromise, but it's hard to beat clean intervals. 21:13
Good luck with all those instrument variations! 21:14
lucs_ & # Dishes... 21:15
Matt-W we don't use equal much in early music 21:16
we don't play in a huge variety of keys, so we can keep it under control using other options, and it means that our different keys do actually sound subtly different, which is nice 21:17
21:22 zamolxes joined, arthur-_ left
colomon Matt-W: One of my high school friends has gotten professionally into early music, and I treasure my memory of him stopping to retune their keyboard instrument between numbers so it could handle a key change. :) 21:25
21:28 ruoso left
Matt-W colomon: I've never seen that done 21:30
colomon: probably using a different temperament again to what I use 21:31
my teacher's always going on about how we should be using quarter comma meantone, but I gather that's an enormous hassle
colomon Matt-W: He only had to retune a couple of notes to make it work... and being by far my superior at these things, he could do it by ear.
Matt-W well when you get to the level when you really really care, you should be! 21:32
bet it sounded good though
21:34 scottp joined
colomon Matt-W: It did, though I must confess my tastes in music are more for stuff from 1800 on. :) 21:35
21:36 KyleHa left
lucs_ Yet, for example, Dowland++ 21:37
21:38 scottp left, scottp joined, scottp left, scottp joined, scottp left 21:39 scottp joined 21:41 ispy__ left, Matt-W_ joined
colomon lucs_: Don't think I am at all familiar with Dowland. 21:42
lucs_ Oh, great stuff. 21:49
21:50 rindolf joined
rindolf Hi all. 21:50
lucs_ Well, maybe not great, but pretty good, and quite enjoyable :) 21:53
21:53 jauaor joined, Matt-W left
Tene pmichaud: github is migrating from Engine Yard to Rackspace at 17:00 Sunday 21:54
rindolf Hi Tene 21:56
Tene hi rindolf
21:57 arthur-_ joined 22:02 __ash__ left
pmichaud Tene: interesting. I hope it goes well. 22:06
22:06 NorwayGeek|Away joined
pmichaud 17:00 edt? pdt? gmt? 22:06
Tene PDT
pmichaud github.com/blog/497-rackspace-move-...cific-time 22:07
22:07 NorwayGeek left
pmichaud looks like they plan for an hour of push unavailability. I can live with that. 22:08
from a rakudo perspective, this sunday is probably a good time 22:09
I'd much prefer that to 3 weeks from now when we're about to do a release :)
and there's plenty of time to deal with migration issues
Tene hehe 22:10
22:22 NorwayGeek|Away is now known as NorwayGeek, NorwayGeek is now known as NorwayGeke 22:32 FCO left 22:42 ab5tract joined 22:47 FCO joined 22:49 icwiener left 22:56 Whiteknight joined 23:05 s1n_mini joined 23:26 ab5tract left
pugs_svn r28407 | lwall++ | [viv] handle ast-less nodes like the bits of rad_number 23:31
r28407 | [STD] move pi, e, and i out of term:-space; they are now just CORE constants
23:34 ewilhelm left, ewilhelm joined
scottp Hey guys. I was just searching the net, but with no luck, has anyone found a solution to getting Rakudu working on Snow Leopard - I am getting the bug as per www.mail-archive.com/perl6-all@perl...86462.html 23:35
23:39 s1n_mini left
TimToady maybe the CORE::i should really be 𝚒 (MATHEMATICAL MONOSPACE SMALL I) 23:42
23:43 iblechbot left
colomon scottp: Wow, that sounds really close to a (regular) Leopard bug from a few months back. Not that I remember anything useful about it.... 23:44
scottp colomon: I have tried a "make clean" and "make distclean" in both parrot and rakudo. My next step is to try a different build of Parrot. 23:46
colomon What version of GCC do you have on Snow Leopard? 23:47
Oooo, first clue? That file is in config/gen/platform/generic/hires_timer.c but should probably be in config/gen/platform/darwin/hires_timer.c instead. 23:48
I mean, it's compiling the generic version when it should probably be compiling the darwin version. 23:54
diakopter ++TimToady 23:56
TimToady since it's in the generic AUTOLOAD, it should probably help elsewhere as well 23:58
diakopter yay; intpart has TEXT
colomon scottp: I would look at parrot/config/auto/arch.pm for clues.
scottp: Though glancing at it I don't see any obvious reason it wouldn't work.
(Though you're using the 64-bit Snow Leopard, I take it? That may have something to do with it.) 23:59
diakopter \\\
\ is not backspace

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!