»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
Set by diakopter on 6 September 2010.
00:19 M_o_C left
IllvilJa Merry Christmas folks! 00:23
TimToady likewise
edenc ho ho ho
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diakopter oh oh oh 00:39
flussence bleh. told myself I was going to make that xmms thing do something useful today, but I'm too sick to concentrate. 00:42
diakopter take a bath; take a nap :)
flussence I've tried that, I'm all stuffed up and it's hard to even lie down :( 00:43
(think I'm getting better today though)
diakopter mmm Phenylephrine
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colomon Merry Christmas to all! 01:19
diakopter on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests 01:28
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lue merry christmas to all in the appropriate time zones! \o/ [my timezone not one of them for ~4 hours] 03:12
.u santa
phenny lue: Sorry, no results for 'santa'.
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lue in a proto regex, I assume <...> refers to any/all of the multi regexes, right? [so for example, proto regex B { '!' <...> '!' } would match any of the multi regex B's inbetween a pair of ! ] 03:16
rakudo: grammar A { proto regex B { B {*} b }; multi regex B:sym<C> { Cc }; multi regex B:sym<D> { Dd }; }; A.parse("BCcb", :rule<B>) 03:25
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: ( no output ) 03:26
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flussence . 03:52
oops, slipped.
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sorear good * #perl6 05:45
coldhead happy jesus, sorear 05:56
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moritz_ good morning 08:10
szabgab good morning 08:20
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sorear good morning moritz_ 08:25
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moritz_ -> travel 08:46
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mberends Merry Christmas #perl6 09:14
TimToady++ # Advent #24 :-)
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tadzik hah, neutro used to be a 50-liner. Dood, old times 11:27
s/Do/Go/
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colomon tadzik++ 11:47
tadzik funny how it didn't really change that much 11:50
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mberends tadzik: you could say the same about Linux, or Windows ;-) 13:16
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masak oh hai, zebras. 14:47
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bes hi everyone 14:53
masak hi bes!
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masak bye, bes. 14:54
mberends hi masak: a fine Yuletide to you. 14:58
huf so wait, yule is christmas? 15:00
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huf oh i see 15:00
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masak perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/2...ristmas-2/ 15:13
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flussence yay 15:13
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masak mberends: hi there. season's greetings to you and yours. 15:14
mberends masak: :-) 15:15
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masak ank, our saddest little troll, is back: twitter.com/anktastic/status/18684856095473665 15:27
I wonder if the irony of the tweet is lost on him.
flussence stating the obvious much? :) 15:28
isBEKaml O.o ironically ironic!
btw, Merry X'mas,#perl6!
:)
masak merry Christmas, isBEKaml. 15:29
isBEKaml masak! you must've had good fun all day. :)
masak in Sweden, the main action takes place on the 24th.
but yes, I enjoyed myself. 15:30
isBEKaml I've seen pics of "Meanwhile, in Sweden..." on reddit. So, I guessed it must be good fun being there.
;)
masak do they depict traffic situations?
isBEKaml no, just the snow. :D 15:31
masak oh, ok :)
isBEKaml and women/ladies drinking wine enjoying themselves. Well, you can guess. ;)
masak yeah, there are lots of women in Sweden. more than four million.
isBEKaml outnumbering the men? :O 15:32
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masak dunno exactly. I women live a bit longer, so that's possible. but not by many percent, if so. 15:33
tadzik was feather down?
isBEKaml masak: the traffic situation, if any, in Sweden - you must know that it's an hundred times more horrible here in India. 15:34
tadzik (looks like no)
isBEKaml I waste close to 4 hrs in commute everyday. :(
hi tadzik !
tadzik hi isBEKaml :) 15:35
isBEKaml tadzik: merry x'mas! good time, I guess?
isBEKaml goes back to picking up perl6book where he last left off... 15:36
Seriously, I miss the fun here mostly due to the darn commute and work commitments. :|
tadzik isBEKaml: not bad, thank you :) 15:37
I'm just having some "fun" with my router
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isBEKaml </rant> <positive>Weekends and perl6! </positive> 15:37
tadzik: "fun"? that must be some dodgy router. :P 15:38
tadzik isBEKaml: it's just weird and does not work, that's all ;) 15:39
afk for now
isBEKaml I must delete the parrot_install folder before gen-parrot'ing? 15:41
gfldex you might have to 15:42
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mberends it's a good habit in general, because old parrot droppings might poison your new parrot 15:43
isBEKaml mberends: "parrot droppings"??!!! lol
I've deleted them and now onto compilation for a fresh Rakudo build. :) 15:44
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b1t_bug hii everybody4 15:53
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isBEKaml do we have anything like __DATA__ in perl6? 16:00
just so we can use some default filehandle? 16:01
never mind. found it in S26. 16:03
rakudo: say $*LINE 16:05
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: ( no output )
isBEKaml rakudo: $*LINE.WHAT.say
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Failure()␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: $?LINE.WHAT.say
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$?LINE' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/Cyg51yLbP8:22)␤»
isBEKaml rakudo: $*FILE.say 16:06
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: ( no output )
pmurias sorear: what do i need to do build run/niecza? 16:09
mberends pmurias: on Linux, mainly mono-devel and related packages to run xbuild 16:13
pmurias i get an error with viv 16:15
gist.github.com/754931 16:16
mberends: i have STD installed from CPAN 16:19
mberends pmurias: I had to git reset my STD back to a commit of 20-Nov to get niecza to build. 16:21
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mberends pmurias: this wfm: github.com/perl6/std/commit/4b3cf0...0f098cfafd 16:24
pmurias wfm? 16:26
mberends work[s|ed] for me :)
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pmurias will wait for that to be sorted out 16:27
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TimToady I suspect you might be picking the wrong viv somewhere in your PATH 16:32
what does 'which viv' say? 16:33
pmurias /home/pawel/perl5/perlbrew/perls/current/bin/viv 16:34
TimToady mine says /usr/local/bin/viv 16:35
kthakore Merry Christmas! 16:38
TimToady And to you and yours!
kthakore :)
#perl6 definately more friendly then #perl 16:39
haha
I got shouted out of #perl
TimToady: thank you
mberends kthakore: just don't anger Camelia, she has a 3 metre wingspan and can suck out your brane! 16:41
kthakore haha
nah I couldn't do that to Camelia :D 16:42
pmurias TimToady: i use perlbrew so that is were i expect the viv from CPAN to be 16:55
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TimToady re anktastic, I thought it was a compliment, and was tempted to retweet it. :) 17:13
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minotaur Whoo Hoo! Perl 6! 17:25
Trashlord woo hoo
TimToady the spirit of christmas future greets you :)
minotaur Why thank you.
I'm just glad to be here.
Juerd So... next Christmas then? 17:26
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TimToady and the next one :) 17:26
minotaur Indeed! 17:27
Juerd Sure, once something's ready it'll probably still be ready after a year
minotaur I'll admit, I'm new to these parts of the interwebs .... what I can do to help the Perl commune?
TimToady what are you interested in? 17:28
minotaur For the moment, I can help test stuff out .... I still need to sharpen my hacking skills to be able to contribute in any significant way.
I just finished building my new toy - a Phenom II box with Gentoo on it. 17:29
TimToady well, to start with, you can build rakudo and see how the test suite works on it
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Juerd l. 17:30
s/l.//
TimToady a lot of people have been doing testing by writing little applications of varioius sorts, and when they run into a bug that's not in the test suite, they report it
any reported bug will eventually have a test of some sort 17:31
or just nopaste the bug here, and masak++ will report it for you :)
minotaur Cool.
TimToady to get an idea of what is possible so far, I'd look at rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Perl_6 17:32
there are 248 examples of working code for small tasks there 17:33
minotaur rakudo-2010.10/2010.08.01/2010.07 ? I see three ebuilds (a gentoo equivalent of rpm) listed
Great! Thanks for pointers.
TimToady it's usually better to work against the git head
since it's regression tested, it's probably more capable than something from 07
and pretty stable 17:34
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minotaur I usually prefer using ebuilds - makes for cleaner patching when new stuff gets rolled out, imo. But I guess I can download the source and manually compile it. 17:35
TimToady at least for now, there aren't all that many dependencies into your OS that you'd have to worry about, and the head is quite a bit more capable than something 5 months old 17:41
minotaur Ah. 2010.10 is also available - which is from 2 months ago. In any case, I just started building 2010.11. 17:43
TimToady 12 will be out very shortly :)
but for some reason most of the developers are a bit distracted today... 17:44
minotaur I guess I'll have to post on the gentoo forums to ensure we (the gentoo gnu/linux users) skip straight to 12! :)
parrot is busy trudging away ...... weee! 17:46
TimToady there's also niecza, which is less far along but likely to be faster sooner
that requires mono though
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minotaur mono as in mod_mono? 17:47
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mberends mono as in www.mono-project.com/Main_Page 17:51
minotaur Ah. done building rakudo; Passed make test!
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TimToady but I'd start playing with rakudo first 17:53
I've had an awful lot of fun with it, even if it is pretty slow yet
minotaur Cool. 17:54
mberends woohoo! Doctor Who Christmas Special begins in 1 minute on BBC1! 17:59
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moritz_ back from traveling 18:09
"you will never come to heaven with the bundesbahn \n cuase the bundesbahn is much too lahm"
(lahm = slow, bundsbahn = old word for the german bahn ag) 18:10
s/cuase/'cause/
TimToady wonders if the Dec 25 entries should have a table of contents (with links) in chronological order
moritz_ TimToady: well volunteered :-)
TimToady I'm just a spectator here... 18:11
moritz_ maybe I'll find some time tomorrow
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mberends I'm editing in TimToady's suggestion, it will take a few more minutes 18:29
TimToady mberends++ 18:30
isBEKaml I'll be going over all of perl6advent Dec 2010. :)
I got a question about MAIN. Is it possible to have named options? I could say ./foo.p6 -x 42 -y 24. x and y being named arguments. Not too different from GetOpt? 18:34
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inkjetunit hi. so. p6 currently requires p5 for bootstrap. is this phase going to last for long? 18:34
TimToady isBEKaml: certainly
inkjetunit: depends on the implementation 18:35
inkjetunit so there are many implementations aswell. hmm
sorear i don't think pugs has any p5 components 18:36
TimToady the niecza implementation (on mono) hopes to be free of p5 in a month or so
sure it does
lichtkind cheers 18:37
TimToady that's one of the ways it does regex
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TimToady (at least historically) 18:37
isBEKaml TimToady: let me just try that and get back. I think I just forgot the syntax, but vaguely recall something like being available with subs. :s
TimToady it could also use rakudo regex or pcre, iirc
I could be confabulating the p5 regex connection, but certainly pcre is p5ish 18:38
which is why pugs could do m:p5// much better than m// 18:39
isBEKaml: S06:3178 18:41
isBEKaml ah, now I get it. I just have to prefix the vars in the sub definition signature with a ":". :)
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isBEKaml gist.github.com/754991 ## nice 18:43
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isBEKaml I find it nice that MAIN subs automatically expand to GetOpt-Long format for argument parsing. 18:43
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mberends ok, links added to perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/2...ristmas-2/ 19:00
isBEKaml I"m currently at Day 4 and got a bit confused by the wording here: "Those of you with backgrounds doing floating point math are probably sputtering about the dangers of assuming that adding .1 repeatedly will add up to exactly 2. In Perl 6, that􏿽x92s not quite such an issue because it will use Rat (ie fractional) math where possible." 19:02
The code snippet in question is: 1, 1.1 ... 2.01
Shouldn't 0.1 in the text be 0.01 ?
pmurias sorear: hi 19:03
sorear: is the github niecza supposed to work with the CPAN STD?
isBEKaml And, the context doesn't seem to convey what snippet the author's referring to, the first or the second. 19:05
colomon: ah. ^^
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sorear pmurias: I'm using github niecza with CPAN 20101111 19:10
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pmurias sorear: i get an error with a missing syml/CORE.lex.store 19:16
thegattaca howdy. im running mac os 10.5 on PPC G4 architecture... can i still get the compiler going on this hardware/platform? (getting started)
TimToady dunno if our mac experts are on today 19:17
thegattaca could try, but decided to join the chan and ask as part of opening conversation first ... i'll give it a shot now 19:18
TimToady welcome, in any case 19:19
thegattaca thanks
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pmurias sorear: i'm typing "xbuild" in a cloned repo of github.com/sorear/niecza 19:23
sorear: gist.github.com/755012
sorear what version of CPAN STD do you have? 19:24
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pmurias STD-20101111 19:35
thegattaca so far the config script is working with manually building parrot 19:37
using rakudo star
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pmurias sorear: i could try with a fresh perl 19:38
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sorear that would be good 19:39
this is one of the reasons I want to ditch p5 - sucky deployment...
pmurias sorear: what's your perl version? 19:40
sorear TimToady: does / <.userdefined (.)> / mean / <.userdefined: rx { (.) }> /, or something more magical?
5.12.0
pmurias sorear: what to you want to ditch p5 for? p6?
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pmurias sorear: what's NAM? saw a mention of that in the TODO, but can't find anything about it in the #parrot logs 19:46
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pmurias sorear: do you want to make niecza run on lorito through NAM or implement NAM on .NET? 19:47
sorear NAM one of the IRs; it currently lies on the border between the .NET-specific and the nonspecific code 19:50
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sorear it also has a serialized form, and lies between the (Perl 5) front and middle ends, and the (C#) back end 19:50
the main module for NAM is called CgOp; it predates the name 19:51
I'd like to turn the front and middle parts into Perl 6 or another CLR language
then deployment can just be "here, have 10MB of .dlls and .exes" 19:52
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masak <TimToady> re anktastic, I thought it was a compliment, and was tempted to retweet it. :) 19:53
:D
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masak I'm afraid I had let him poison me a little, but the above helped :) 19:54
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Guest39886 hi Everyone 19:56
masak hi, Guest.
sorear Hello.
Guest39886 can someone tell me how to write a sub signature that "matches" the empty list? 19:57
Tene you mean no params at all? or a param that can only match an empty array? 19:58
masak rakudo: sub foo([]) { say "empty list matched" }; foo([]) 19:59
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«empty list matched␤»
Guest39886 like this: multi sub f ([$a, *@rest], $b, $c){… code with list} M multi sub (???, $b, $c){… code without list} (lispish/prologish list recursion way) 20:00
Tene Guest39886: [], like masak said 20:01
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Tene rakudo: multi sub f ([$head, *@tail]) { say 'more'; f(@tail) }; multi sub f([]) { say 'done' }; my @a = qw/foo bar baz lol/; f(@a); 20:03
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«more␤more␤more␤more␤done␤»
Guest39886 rakudo: multi sub sum([$a, @rest]){sum(@rest) + $a}; multi sub sum ([]){0}; sum([2,3]) 20:04
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'sum'. Available candidates are:␤:(Positional (Any $a, @rest))␤:(Positional ())␤␤ in 'sum' at line 22:/tmp/xcft9O9tUe␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/xcft9O9tUe␤»
Guest39886 whats wrong with my multi definition?
sorear you said @rest
needs to be *@rest
Tene rakudo: multi sub sum([$a, *@rest]){sum(@rest) + $a}; multi sub sum ([]){0}; sum([2,3]) 20:05
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: ( no output )
Tene rakudo: multi sub sum([$a, *@rest]){sum(@rest) + $a}; multi sub sum ([]){0}; say sum([2,3])
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«5␤»
Guest39886 sory
Tene Guest39886: np :)
masak we're mostly happy when people learn things in public. :) 20:09
it's useful for those of us who are thinking about how best to teach Perl 6. 20:10
Tene Also helps those who are less-public about their learning by watching others learn. 20:13
masak .oO( learning voyeurs... ) 20:14
Tene I like to watch.
masak Tene: there are these instruction videos, too. 20:15
the comments of perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/2...ide-carol/ are like a little fishbowl view of the Perl 6 community and its surroundings. :) 20:18
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sorear masak: have you seen the slashdot comments feed? 20:21
lichtkind sorear: there were unusual positive :) 20:22
uh im not masak :)
thegattaca config script completed on ppc ... now running make 20:23
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Guest39886 wow now I can Prolog reverse in perl! 20:33
but I still have problems, I wanted to solve the knapsack 1/0 in Rosetta code, but somehow I'm still stuck with the Signatures 20:35
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diakopter pmurias: hi 20:44
pmurias diakopter: hi
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tadzik o/ 20:59
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dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....dex_tablet 21:09
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dalek p-rx: e920607 | bacek++ | src/ (3 files):
Remove usage of deprecated concat_s_s op
 21:19
p-rx: 01081a8 | bacek++ | src/stage0/ (4 files):
Update bootstrap files with concat_s_s remmoval
lue hello o/ 21:20
dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....lta_tablet 21:21
pmurias sorear: a fresh perl 5.12.0 with STD installed raises the same error 21:23
no sorry 21:24
lue rakudo: grammar A { proto regex B { B {*} b }; multi regex B:sym<C> { Cc }; multi regex B:sym<D> { Dd }; }; A.parse("BCcb", :rule<B>)
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: ( no output )
lue any idea why it's not DWIM ? 21:25
moritz_ what does it do?
you didn't even produce any output
how do you know what it does?
lue rakudo: grammar A { proto regex B { B {*} b }; multi regex B:sym<C> { Cc }; multi regex B:sym<D> { Dd }; }; say A.parse("BCcb", :rule<B>) # oops :) 21:26
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«␤»
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moritz_ rakudo: grammar A { proto regex B { B {*} b }; multi regex B:sym<C> { Cc }; multi regex B:sym<D> { Dd }; }; say ? A.parse("BCcb", :rule<B>) 21:26
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
lue
.oO(I'm used to not having to type say in the REPL)
moritz_ probably just NYI 21:27
note that rakudo's proto regex implementation is from times when {*} still meant "execute an action method here"
lue aww :( . It would be easier than typing B b in every regex. I'm having problems with my grammar since I introduced proto regexes, but I'll figure it out. 21:28
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lue would s/{*}/<...>/ fare much better? 21:28
moritz_ probably not
but you can still have a token wrapper { <common_prefix> <rule_you_actually_meant_to_write> } 21:29
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lue so would regex E { <prefixy> <B> <suffixy> } work? 21:32
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moritz_ I certainly hope (and expect) so 21:34
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moritz_ -> sleep 21:34
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pmurias sorear: niecza works here! ;) 22:02
sorear: does niecza run spectests? 22:05
tadzik no, it has no eval, and spectests like eval 22:06
lue when you match to a proto regex, can you see which one it matched? (e.g. if I match <B>, can I see if it's B:sym<C> or B:sym<D>?) 22:07
flussence the <C> is in <.sym>, iirc 22:09
lue $/<.sym> does nothing. 22:11
flussence this might be informative, dunno: github.com/moritz/json/blob/master...Grammar.pm 22:13
TimToady nothing is ever in <.sym>, because the purpose of the . is to suppress capture 22:22
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TimToady SoCal --> NorCal & 22:36
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masak sorear: yes, I found that earlier today. 22:53
lue hai masak o/
masak helue!
tadzik hey 22:54
lue Is there a way to see which regex of a multi/proto regex matched? (e.g. B:sym<C> or B:sym<D>)
masak sorear: generally, I found the slashdot comments to be unusually upbeat, and then the usual trolling about linenoise. 22:56
lue: that's something that an action method could do. I won't guarantee there isn't an even better method, but that's one solution, at least. 23:03
lue makes sense. I just happened to be focusing on the grammar right now, so I forgot about that part :) 23:05
sjn masak: ping 23:07
masak sjn: pong
sjn masak: would you mind going over your Go Open talk title/description for me? 23:08
well, title is very fine
description needs to be shorter :-/
max three sentences/lines
masak oh, no problem :)
I can do that.
sjn excellent :)
masak let me think about it for a bit, and I'll send you an email. probably tomorrow. 23:09
sjn no hurry until after new-year's though :)
just giving you an early heads-up
a bio would be nice too 23:10
masak no problemo. 23:15
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masak 'night, zebras. 23:25
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lue rakudo: say ":a<b>" ~~ /<?{Perl6::Grammar.parse($0, :rule<colonpair>)}>/ 23:28
p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«␤»
lue still doesn't work, it seems. afk!
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