Please test pre0: pugs.blogs.com/pre0/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12.tar.gz | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org
Set by audreyt on 12 June 2006.
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svnbot6 r10869 | fglock++ | v6.pm - fix parser: '->' is not an operator; updated TODO 01:02
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audreyt TimToady: should conditionals be able to take routine literals? 01:49
if $x sub ($y) { ... }
or is it only block literals (bare/pointy)?
I admit that "if $x sub" reads really weird 01:50
and "return" from within the sub is perhaps not as useful
so maybe limit it to block form? (that part is uncharted for now)
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meppl gute nacht 02:20
svnbot6 r10870 | audreyt++ | * unregister fps/HsSyck from userbase before ubilding to save trouble 02:32
r10871 | audreyt++ | * MenTaLguY noted that stm-retry-with.pl should join the threads 02:35
r10871 | audreyt++ | on machines where the main thread wouldn't autowait for closed threads.
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fglock audreyt: ping 03:03
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audreyt fglock: ping 03:10
pong
fglock audreyt: I wonder when it's the time to release v6.pm - release early and people have too many expectations, release later and you get few developers 03:11
it's easier to install from CPAN, too 03:12
obra fglock: release 0.01_01 to cpan? 03:13
audreyt have you solved the } ?
obra that marks it as a developer release
audreyt unbalanced brace problem
fglock I'm not sure - can't test it now 03:14
audreyt ok. once it's fixed it's of course good to release 03:15
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audreyt just be ruthlessly honest in expectation management 03:16
and make sure nobody think it's anywhere near complete -- or even "most complete at the moment" -- and it should be fine :)
audreyt spent the day porting CPAN to haskell 03:17
made some good progress
fglock yes - I'd like some help with the POD later - I'll work on it in the weekend 03:18
audreyt perlcabal.org/~audreyt/hackage/
there's a client now (cabal-install), and dependency resolver
need to figure out the equivalent to AtomPub API
obra did you and syntaxninja decide to use Atom as the native api? 03:19
audreyt but once it's there things should be much easier
no, we decide to use plain old filesystem.
obra cool :)
audreyt and .txt.gz files
fglock my windows installation is pretty broken - I can't even install my own modules
audreyt it's a port of olde CPAN
I happen to think that the ftp-based semantic is the right semantic 03:20
we can add discoverability and RDF on that as long as our URI space is clean
the previous prototype was using XML-RPC
I was like, horrified
so it's better now :)
audreyt spreads the REST
obra :) 03:25
fglock does Moose handle multimethods?
audreyt I think you can hook C::M::P on it 03:29
not sure though, should talk to #moose
stevan: does it make sense to get a C::M::P bridge? 03:30
# search.cpan.org/dist/Class-Multimethods-Pure/ 03:31
fglock yup - I'm looking at C::M::P too - it would be nice if Moose just supported most stuff, and v6.pm would be mostly a syntax layer
audreyt yeah 03:32
though multisubs (that's what C::M::P defines) is really orthogonal to methods
s/multisubs/multis/
i.e. you can have multi subs, multi methods, nonmulti subs, nonmulti methods 03:33
and the two dimensions are largely orthogonal
(methods always bias to the invocant; sub always consider no invocant; then if it's multi, the positionals are considered) 03:34
and that's all
so v6 can gen CMP coderefs and use them as moose methods
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fglock would multimethod dispatching work with Moose? 03:35
I should learn more about Moose internals 03:36
audreyt I don't see why not...
Moose inheritance is still recorded in @ISA
CMP looks at @ISA
so it should be fine
fglock I guess I'll make v6.pm intercept a 'use Test' and use perl5:Test/Test::More instead for now 03:41
same with Data::Dumper 03:44
audreyt why not just write 03:48
use perl5:Test::More
if you mean that?
fglock in order to run the pugs test suite 03:50
audreyt oh. then I suggest you getting ext/Test/lib/Test.pm to work :) 03:51
if you pass all sanity tests, Test.pm should Just Work 03:52
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fglock sleep & 04:01
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audreyt ingy: can we get a Module::Compile release out of your repo 04:33
for fglock's v6 to depend on?
I just fixed the } block problem caused by the original validator block in conjunction with do blocks in user code 04:35
svnbot6 r10872 | audreyt++ | * Module::Compile - sync against ingy's repo. This version now works with v6.pm.
audreyt so would be nice to have a release
that's r2849 at your svn.kwiki.org/ingy/Module-Compile repo 04:39
svnbot6 r10873 | audreyt++ | * Module::Compile - ascii art ;)
r10874 | audreyt++ | * restore parsing for nested => after the state-FIRST hack 04:55
audreyt ok, now that the state() regression is gone, we can roll pre1. 05:08
Please test pre1: pugs.blogs.com/pre1/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12.tar.gz | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org 05:12
audreyt please give pugs.blogs.com/pre1/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12.tar.gz a try if you have some spare cycles :) 05:13
audreyt waves and goes sleeping &
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dduncan fyi, I have noticed the pre1 and downloading it ... will start to make tonight, though smoke may wait for tomorrow 07:37
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Aankhen`` Is it really necessary to recompile a bunch of Haskell modules for `make install`? :-( 07:50
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azuroth hey-yo 08:10
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dduncan Aankhen, I notice that many 'make' commands trigger what looks like a recompilation, but I think they just skip over things already compiled, so it doesn't last long; this would actually be a compilation if you said make smoke or make install without saying 'make' first 09:23
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Aankhen`` ddun: Okay. 09:58
Bleh.
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stevan audreyt: C::M::P + Moose would be a nice thing 13:46
it does not require any work even
as you said
however,.. C::M::P might need a little work, I am not sure what state luqui left it in
and it should probably be hacked to support ->does() as well 13:47
audreyt aye 13:53
though CMP doesn't do the specced distance dispatch
stevan hmm
audreyt but otoh, the interaction between distance dispatch and casting and etc is still unresolved 13:54
stevan C::M?
Damian's module
Moose should play well with anything 13:55
well,.. anything that plays well with Pure Perl 5
bbiab, gotta go buy socks for YAPC 13:58
azuroth ... 14:05
ZuluOne Does YAPC have any feet to put them on? 14:16
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audreyt wow, it's amazing 16:08
those Diebold ATM machines
it took my card, displayed a Win32 segfault message, then rebooted into Tivoli 16:09
then rebooted again, then shut itself down
audreyt is now pennyless ;)
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nothingmuch audreyt: will YAML::Syck ever support !perl/code ? 16:34
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audreyt nothingmuch: hack it in? 16:37
nothingmuch audreyt: how? 16:38
audreyt you are now committer to svn.openfoundry.org/perlsyck/
by line 568 16:39
perl_syck.h
handle the CV case
see Storable for example and FreezeThaw
I need to run now
nothingmuch okay
i think i'll manage from there
thanks
audreyt np :)
nothingmuch++
nothingmuch nothingmuch.woobling.org/Class-Work...ample.yaml 16:40
=)
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putter audreyt: ping? 16:41
audreyt putter: pong
what's up?
nothingmuch audreyt: can you also make me comaint?
i want to release Class::Workflow today
putter Boston perlmongers would normally meet the 11th, but could shift, or schedule a social. Any interest in doing a talk, or lightning? 16:42
nothingmuch and if i finish i will release YAML::Syck dev first
audreyt putter: both is fine
putter hate to cut in on hackathon time...
audreyt nod
I'm willing to give a talk, maybe on deploying perl6 16:43
I need to run off though
so mail me with potential dates?
nothingmuch: you are now comaint
putter sometime midweek, say 5th? any constraints?
re run off, k, touch base later 16:44
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nothingmuch audreyt++ 16:55
thanks
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nothingmuch hmm 17:24
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nothingmuch YAML and YAML::Sick aren't 100% consistent about !perl/Foo 'bar' 17:28
YAML makes 'bar' into a scalar ref and blesses that into Foo
YAML::Syck ignores the tag
and makes it just 'bar'
which should it be? 17:29
xerox nothingmuch - What are those .xs files?
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nothingmuch xerox: .xs is C with preprocessing to make something that can interface with perl space 17:30
"X subs" i think
xerox Ah, perl space.
hcarty Is perl5 embedding working properly in the pre1 release? I can call routines in perl5 modules, but when I try to create an object (ex CGI.new) I get an error 17:34
pasteling "hcarty" at 70.108.201.66 pasted "perl5 OO error" (7 lines, 132B) at sial.org/pbot/17945 17:36
hcarty I'm not sure if it's a problem with my build, or something on my system. I've had the same problem with all of my recent attempts at building pugs 17:40
s/building/using/
audreyt hcarty: hi 18:03
ah. the metaobject havn't been updated
can you write a test for it in t/perl5/?
I'll fix it now
(and do you have a commit bit yet, if not, what's your email addr?) 18:04
hcarty I'll do my best - I do not have a commit bit. [email@hidden.address]
audreyt you do now. welcome aboard! 18:05
add yourself to AUTHORS first to test commit
hcarty Thank you!
audreyt :)
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nothingmuch waits for big explosions 18:10
audreyt nothingmuch: both Y.pm and Y::S are wrong 18:13
this is right
pyyaml.org/wiki/PerlTagScheme
nothingmuch audreyt: okay, i will maybe fix it later
that said
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nothingmuch how does aliasing work with syck? 18:14
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nothingmuch i'm seeing *tag = '\0' which i really don't understand 18:15
hmm
i'm guessing this is not what I want, right?
audreyt right 18:16
aliasing works by anchors
nothingmuch well, let's TODO that for now
does the emitter automatically add anchors for us?
i don't see meaningful mentions of anchor format, etc 18:17
wow
compiles
# Test 11 got: "{ \"foo\" . shift }" (t/2-scalars.t at line 31) 18:18
# Expected: "{ \"foo\" . shift }"
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
now for eval
uh, wait
sorry, wrong test
# Test 9 got: "--- !perl/code: \"{\\n 'bar';\\n\\\n}\\0\"\n" (t/2-scalars.t at line 21)
# Expected: "--- !perl/code: '{ \"bar\" }'\n" 18:19
but that's still good ;-)
audreyt emitter autoadds anchors
don't worry about that
nothingmuch goody
PerlJam Any of you guys know of an opensource javascript pretty printer?
audreyt anchor resolution for cyclics is also auto
PerlJam I've got some horrendous javascript to wade through and it would be better if it weren't so horrendous :)
audreyt www.jcay.com/javascript-code-improver.html 18:20
not free software
PerlJam yeah, that seems to the where everyone points.
unfortunately, I'm not running windows.
nothingmuch audreyt: how should i pretty print string storage, wrt \n, | and so forth? 18:21
audreyt use one of the styles 18:23
nothingmuch i mean "what is the name of a function that could help me" ;-)
audreyt in emitting
select one of the scalar_2quote
scalar_none
etc
nothingmuch SCALAR_QUOTED etc?
okay
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nothingmuch oi oi oi 18:28
the deparsing works
but i can't emit it right
ah 18:31
it was the length
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nothingmuch well 18:39
appearantly it roundtrips
i haven't found a good style though
maybe you can help me later
audreyt commit!
nothingmuch tests fail 18:40
(my new tests)
is that OK?
audreyt sure
hcarty If I want to use svk to work on pugs, is the svn.openfoundry.org/pugs url the correct one to mirror? I've only ever used svk for local/personal projects. That's what it looks like in pugs::hack, but I want to be sure before I let the lengthy sync process begin
audreyt yes.
obra yes.
audreyt and if you want to you can sync-to-head
ah, the svk vendor is here
:D
nothingmuch audreyt: comitted 18:41
oh crap
i forgot to up the plan number
there 18:42
i should poke around line 183, right? 18:46
hmm 18:48
i can'
t finish this tonight
i am invited to dinner
then i have to pack and tomorrow i fly
but it's a long flight =)
if you want to help me save time (anyone) /msg me or nopaste me links to some docs that I might discover are useful later 18:49
besides Storable.xs
so that i can prefetch
ciao!
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svnbot6 r10875 | hcarty++ | r5@laptop44: hcarty | 2006-06-24 15:11:38 -0400 19:14
r10875 | hcarty++ | Added myself to AUTHORS
hcarty Rock - I finally got it work correctly 19:16
audreyt woot 19:27
wolverian I thought svnbot filtered the commit metadata there nowadays 19:29
spinclad depends on how you send it, i think -- 'svk push' tends to do this, iirc 19:31
audreyt svk push --verbatim doesn't do it 19:32
spinclad right, that's the magic word
btw, pre1 built and smoked here 19:34
wolverian ah. I have a direct mirror and my svk ci doesn't do it either here
but it used to, which makes me think it wasn't a direct thingy.
or something. :)
spinclad but pirsmoke gave lots of complaints (no surprise i think) 19:35
audreyt yeah. sadly parrot doesn't have a sensible support for our new OUTER:: semantic 19:36
working on it, though
spinclad back later & # food shopping and lunch 19:38
hcarty I will try to remember to use --verbatim for future commits 19:40
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audreyt ...and where is the test? ;) 19:43
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renormalist Hi all! I just saw in old experimental perl6 code stuff like "sub my_substr ($str, ?$from = 0, ?$len = Inf)". Are these prepended '?' an old syntax for optional params written with appended '?' like "($from?, $len?)" (seen in S06)? 19:52
wolverian yes 19:54
renormalist is the old syntax still legal? 19:56
szbalint no
renormalist m'kay
xerox Now let's add ! to mandatory params :-)
renormalist This appending is better than prepending, so it doesn't optically conflict with twigils. nice 19:58
wolverian on the other hand, it increases visual lookahead. it's not too bad though.
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renormalist 's network lags a bit 20:41
hcarty For "use perl5:CGI" (or any other perl5 module) should both "my $q = new CGI" and "my $q = CGI.new" work in pugs? 20:53
And is the proper way to test this with a try {} ?
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svnbot6 r10876 | hcarty++ | Added a test for using perl5 class modules 21:30
21:32 hcarty left
svnbot6 r10877 | hcarty++ | r9@laptop44: hcarty | 2006-06-24 17:31:25 -0400 21:33
r10877 | hcarty++ | Forgot to add svn-properties to last commit
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nothingmuch uhg 22:02
colomon Hi all. Just tried pre1. make works fine, make test has one error, but make install fails with ghc-6.4.2: unknown package: fps-0.7 22:03
platform is Suse linux on X86-64. 22:04
svnbot6 r10878 | renormalist++ | cperl-mode.el: imenu index recognizes various multi|proto sub(method) variants 22:12
ingy hola 22:28
audreyt colomon: roger, will fix 22:32
which error was in the maketest?
nothingmuch audreyt: BLAM 22:34
releasing YAML-Syck-0.46_01 ? 22:35
audreyt sure
go ahead
nothingmuch i don't need to bump the JSON version, right? 22:36
audreyt right
nothingmuch how do i make meta.yml with MI? 22:40
ah, metafile
huh?! it's not creating
audreyt rm -rf inc first 22:42
nothingmuch ah
for author vs. user behavior?
ugh, failing tests 22:44
should i check inc in? 22:47
t/leak................Use of inherited AUTOLOAD for non-method YAML::Syck::Load() is deprecated at t/leak.t line 26. 22:48
i think ti's due to DL_NOLAZY 22:49
aye
*sigh*
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nothingmuch oh, sorry, that was stupid 22:54
anyway, i'm not checking in inc/
because I doubt it should even be in svn
and since i see no tags/ either, i'm not tagging
YAML-Syck-0.46_01 uploaded to the CPAN
wish me luck 22:55
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dduncan I have now begun to smoke pre1 ... est 2:30 to completion 23:14
er, 2h,30m
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audreyt hm, coding up cabal-install in Haskell is quite nice 23:36
it helps that I can port all the CPANPLUS algorithms ;)
audreyt verifies again that perl is wonderful for exploratory I-know-nothing-about-the-domain programming
...and Hs is wonderful for I-already-know-what-I-am-doing-just-do-it 23:37
stevan audreyt: are you in chicago yet?
audreyt perlcabal.org/~audreyt/hackage/ now runs, whee
stevan :)
audreyt (the equivalent to PAUSE is being worked out... eta 1-2 hrs) 23:38
stevan Haskell,.. it's the new Perl
audreyt :D
stevan: no, going to fly in tomorrow morning
stevan ah
cool
I arrive tomorrow night, with nothingmuch and robkinyon
audreyt cool
stevan should be a very fun hackathon this year 23:39
audreyt indeed
-O9fun
stevan :)
-O11fun
mine goes up to 11
nothingmuch -O1.43e+471fun 23:42
23:42 Ymmv joined
nothingmuch that's like, more than google fun 23:42
HUZZAAAAH!
stevan -OInffun
nothingmuch now you've ruined the joke
stevan the fun *NEVER* stops!
nothingmuch =)
WOW 23:43
i found a spoon!
almost done packing 23:48
i wonder what's left
dduncan unpacking 23:49
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dduncan something I've been wondering, which is practical for the problem domain I'm addressing ... databases 23:51
I would like to effectively use a database engine as a compilation target for a certain subset of Perl ...
so that certain things which would run well in a database are done there 23:52
ideally, this may take the form of a macro-like feature where one can declare a macro that says that all sub-expressions of the call to said macro become part of the macro 23:53
afaik, macros in perl 6 can take Perl ASTs as input, but I'm wondering if ...
nothingmuch this is probably better done as a theoretical optimizer plugin 23:54
that looks for staticly typed code
dduncan that is very possible
nothingmuch which is definitely database backed
that way the scale can be larger
dduncan I was very much thinking that what I wanted to do is best in the domain of an optimizer
nothingmuch and the user interfacing is zero
dduncan effectively what I wanted to do is take what looks like multiple invocations of the database in user land and turn it into fewer or different actual invocations behind the scenes 23:55
nothingmuch as it stands right now, it looks like the optimziation framework will be flexible enough to give you that
once it exists =)
aye
also, runtime checks can get out of the picture
and reachability analysis can do smart prefetching
so it really extends farther than just drop in replacement of certain opcodes =) 23:56
that said, you can probably still pull it off with overloading (the punt to database feature)
dduncan eg, if users say $foo = select_table( 'foo'); $bar = select_table( 'bar' ); $baz = Relation::table_join( $foo, $bar ); ...
that would behind the scenes turn the table join into a db-side op rather than a perl-side op
unoptimized, the select_table(), each one, would be a separate db invocation 23:57
nothingmuch have you seen DBIx::Class?
it's nearly like that
except it's in perl 5
dduncan sure
nothingmuch so are $bar and $foo thunks?
dduncan but what I'm looking to do, unlike all the other layers out there, is that people can just write normal Perl and have it appropriately rearranged without them having to do anything special 23:58
nothingmuch in dbic they represent resultsets, which conveniently doesn't say if they're materialized or not, but does know how to generate a select for them =)
dduncan $bar and $foo would be Relation variables
a Relation variable is essentially a a set of hashes
nothingmuch Perl 6 will let you overload more cleanly
since %, @ etc become more like operators
that layer will be a lot nicer to work with
i thought you were trying to specify e.g. a loop block 23:59
dduncan eg, its like what you get when, in DBI you say $sth->fetch_arrayref({});
nothingmuch and then shove the loop block into a select where clause
anyway, as nice as it is to talk
i really have to stfu
and finish =)
dduncan sure
nothingmuch will you be at yapc?

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