Please test pre0: pugs.blogs.com/pre0/Perl6-Pugs-6.2.12.tar.gz | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org
Set by audreyt on 12 June 2006.
Juerd rafl: Too bad 00:03
00:04 shachaf joined
rafl Juerd: I also won't be at YAPC::EU. 00:13
Juerd: If you won't visit some german rock festivals I think the next thing where we'll meet is 23C3.
Juerd rafl: How dare you :) 00:17
You weren't at the austrian perl workshop either :)
Or the dutch one
rafl I'm broke. 00:18
Juerd Explain the rock festivals then :)
rafl No, the rock festivals explain why I'm broke.
Juerd Heh
Do you have a job? 00:19
rafl I even had two talks accepted for froscon.. oh well.
Kind of, yes..
I do some hosting and webdevelopment for some people, I administrate a pool of Debian machines and I work at a professorship at university. 00:20
Juerd I see. Adminning debian machines doesn't pay well. They're way too stable :) 00:29
rafl The local admins always fuck things up, so there's enough work to do. Unfortunately it isn't payed very well. 00:31
"Hey, we need $that.. oh, it isn't in sarge. Oh, well.. let's install it from unstable!" 00:33
Juerd The solution is to run unstable, not stable. 00:38
I have sid in production on at least a dozen machines
rafl Which would cause much work. For example if md decides to break udev again. 00:39
Juerd Never had trouble with that
But then, I try to avoid udev.
rafl We're taling about desktop machines which I administrate..
Juerd I think such stuff is scary for servers. Hard coded device nodes have worked well for decades; why would we need change now, for machines that keep their configuration for years? 00:40
Ohhh
That's very different indeed.
rafl Also the recent xorg 7.0 transition broke a lot of things in unstable. Way too much trouble for me.
Juerd I associate debian with servers, because I use ubuntu on workstations :)
rafl Which ubuntu branch?
Juerd I've been using Ubuntu/Kubuntu for over a year now, and love it. 00:41
ubuntu/kubuntu, current and previous versions
But in general, I upgrade machines when I get the chance
rafl The stable branch, that is. You would have similar problems when using their unstable branch.
Juerd Of course 00:42
But their stable branch isn't as painful as debian's
...for desktops
Though I use the n+1 versions on my laptop and mac mini
rafl If you had the same local "admins" as I do, it probably would.
Juerd And must say that they manage to keep it relatively stable.
rafl Beside that, I'm a Debian developer.. I'm sure there's a policy document that forbids me to use Ubuntu ;-) 00:43
Juerd Hehehe
I'm a Debian fanboy, but Ubuntu's just too attractive for me to resist. 00:45
rafl At least half of Debian hates doko and therefor Ubuntu because the touble with the python transition nowadays :-)
Juerd What's doko?
rafl Who's doko? Matthias Klose [email@hidden.address] 00:46
Python Maintainer and ubuntu employee
Juerd Sigh
I don't choose my software based on the people who make it.
What's the python transition? 00:47
rafl doko was quite busy with ubuntu stuff recently, while the new debian py policy was made.
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rafl Also he isn't willing to maintain an important package, such as python, in a group. 00:47
Juerd Ubuntu depends heavily on python 00:48
Weird that they would be unwilling
rafl So other people worked on the transition. Most of it was nearly finished and then he poped up with his own "ubuntu solution" (python-central), which doesn't work together with the other solution people made while he was busy with ubuntu (python-support)
Not they (ubuntu), but he (doko) didn't want to maintain py in a group inside Debian. 00:49
Then some changes to the dh_python script in debhelper were needed so someone did a non-maintainer upload of debhelper and now Joey Hess, the debconf maintainer, is pissed as well..
Lots of fun.
If you haven't had a good flamewar recently read lists.debian.org/debian-python.. 00:50
Did I mention the mass-bug-filing against hundreds of py-packages about migrating to the new policy even if that policy isn't agreed on yet? 00:51
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Juerd Heh 00:54
I'm off to bed
The lag is too much to irc normally anyway
(lag between home and feather)
Furnabceoy n8 00:55
rafl Good night, Juerd
Juerd Good nigh
t
rafl The lag between my brain and my fingers is too high as well.. 00:56
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svnbot6 r10843 | fglock++ | v6.pm - pass 01-sanity/07-tailcall.t, 07-range.t, 07-isa.t 01:45
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meppl gute nacht 02:26
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dduncan I see that the changelogging has caught up to the present, and that smokes are more or less at 100% ... 02:54
is there an ETA for a preflight or release? 02:55
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dduncan eg, before or after the YAPC::NA hackathon? 02:55
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dduncan I'm thinking before is better, but whatever 02:56
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renormalist In case anyone is awake: How do I know whether I need a "make clean" to rebuild Pugs after svn updates? I would like to continuously recompile my Pugs (once a day or so) but don't want to wait that long everytime. 07:31
Is it e.g. only needed if I change config like PUGS_EMBED or so?
Aankhen`` Shouldn't be needed even then, since Makefile.PL will create a new Makefile... 07:36
Then again, I'm not the expert.
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renormalist m'kay 07:47
Skyddsman renormalist: make clean is an incantation of the devil and should never be invoked. 07:51
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svnbot6 r10844 | cmarcelo++ | * Judy.Map2 using JudyL. Instantiate MapM. 07:53
r10844 | cmarcelo++ | * Some code reorganization (ie. more files =P). ReversibleHashIO is too similar
r10844 | cmarcelo++ | to Refeable, but Refeable has (will have) freeRef. Need to think more about it.
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renormalist I remember problems without make clean after big svn updates. Maybe it's an ancient experience I no longer have to remember. 07:55
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Skyddsman renormalist: Needing a "make clean" after a sync is like needing an engine rebuild after filling your gas tank. 08:01
ZuluOne That's a bit of a far-fetched analogy. However, I'm willing to accept that needing a make clean after a sync is like the dependency information in the Makefile being broken. 08:02
Skyddsman ZuluOne: Not that far fetched, really. I means that the manufacturer didn't know what they were doing when they put it together, yah? 08:04
s/I/It
ZuluOne changing some of the code is hardly filling the gas tank 08:05
closer to replacing the carburettor (if I can spell)
I suspect there should be more e's.
apparently not 08:06
Skyddsman ZuluOne: Sub fuel injectors for the carb, and we're talking about the same thing. Swap out the fuel injectors and the car computer will notice delta in fuel consumption, o2 consumption, and adjust accordingly. 08:07
ZuluOne: But source updates should be more like the variations seen between Premium and the cheap stuff. 08:08
ZuluOne Well, my knowledge of car mechanics has just underrun, but nm.
Skyddsman ZuluOne: Mine too. :P
ZuluOne: I was bluffing.
ZuluOne In that case, I accept your original statement. 08:09
Skyddsman ZuluOne: What I really meant to say was that a make clean should never really be required, unless you happen to be the guy tinkering with make. :) 08:10
ZuluOne of course 08:11
Skyddsman And, just to be an ass, it was a simile, not an analogy. Sorry for that. 08:15
ZuluOne If you are using it to argue that the situation with make is unreasonable, then it is an analogy. 08:16
Now if you'll excuse me, time to set off for work. 08:17
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christopher renormalist: Not an ancient experience for me. 08:21
I needed it recently, but it may have been due to upgrading Parrot to 0.4.5.
although iirc it was actually Haskell package errors I was getting before the make clean 08:23
Skyddsman heads off to bed
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gaal meows 11:31
greetings from Hoboken, NJ
wolverian purrs
audreyt purrs
hi gaal
gaal hola!
how's MS-land treating you? 11:32
audreyt so. any new movement on the YAML front?
oh, excellently
emeijer gave me an outof print functional programming book by Wadler and Bird
he says that's his brainwashing weapon to convert MS people to FP
gaal audreyt: I committed the cleanups I wanted to (xerox++ for helping a blind man) but didn't fine the emit_yaml problem cause 11:33
audreyt k
gaal er, didn't find it, either
ooh
audreyt url to the context (minimal test case etc) again?
gaal ?eval Pugs::Inetnernals::emit_yaml(42)
evalbot_10746 Error: No such method in class Int: "&Pugs::Inetnernals::emit_yaml"
gaal brb 11:34
?eval Pugs::Internals::emit_yaml(42)
audreyt also attempted to drag the LINQ people to #perl6... not sure when they'll show up
evalbot_10746 Error: Unsafe function 'Pugs::Internals::emit_yaml' called under safe mode
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audreyt but more importantly, that was the first time I explained the entire compilation flow, calling convention, object model, etc, in on coherent setting :) 11:35
and we compared that against the MSIL model, and so it's much less fuzzy now in my head
meppl guten morgen 11:37
gaal oops back # futon folding to ward cats 11:38
excellent! I wonder if they can pick something up from us too?
hey isn't it ridiculously early where you re? 11:39
audreyt yup, I just woke up
and yes, we talked a lot about how p6 exposes those multilevel dynamicness 11:40
parse-time evaluation, doubly-closed closures in inner functions, dynamic binding in the form of contexts, etc
so maybe some of them will creep into the next LINQ. maybe. :) 11:41
gaal waits for a Microsoft Moose
audreyt Microsoft Ergonomic Optical Moose 11:42
"Moose, it's the new Mouse"
gaal # forum2.org/moose/moose14.html
audreyt yeah. we also figured out a way to embed moose-ish things in MSIL settings, but probably not going to work on CLR targetting in the near future
P5 targetting is clearly more fun and involves far less hacks, compared to mono targetting 11:43
looking at emityaml now 11:44
gaal brb again 11:45
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svnbot6 r10845 | renormalist++ | cperl-mode.el 11:48
r10845 | renormalist++ | * fixed highlighting bug in subs
r10845 | renormalist++ | * "proto" routine modifier
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svnbot6 r10846 | audreyt++ | * Prelude.pm: Mark non-closure prelude functions as primitive 12:42
audreyt gaal: fixed 12:43
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DebolazX Should the latest trunk of parrot and pugs be able to work together? 12:44
svnbot6 r10847 | audreyt++ | * expose Pugs.hs's filterUserDefinedPad in Pugs.AST and have
r10847 | audreyt++ | Pugs.Prim use it to weed out $*OUT etc.
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DebolazX I'm getting the error message "error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected DOT" when trying to execute a program that prints Hello World. 12:46
audreyt what's the program? 12:47
can't just be 'say "Hello World"' :) 12:48
DebolazX pugs -e 'print "Hello World!\n"' -BPIR
This is not release, this is svn trunk. 12:49
audreyt checking 12:53
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Aankhen`` I'm getting a somewhat different error. 13:00
***
unexpected end of input
expecting "\\", "$/", "$!" or "'"
at -e line 1, column 7
Aankhen`` wonders if the DOS prompt messed it up. 13:01
Ah, yes, it was the DOS prompt.
dakkar cmd.exe?
Aankhen`` Now I'm getting the same error as DebolazX.
dakkar: Yup. 13:02
dakkar it does not understand sinle quotes
Aankhen`` At line 6 of the generated PIR file, if that helps.
Aankhen`` nods.
audreyt fixed. committing
DebolazX Line 6 here too btw.
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svnbot6 r10848 | audreyt++ | * Debolaz++ pointed out that newer parrots doesn't load PerlArray 13:08
r10848 | audreyt++ | etc by default, so we need to declare we are in the "perl" HLL
r10848 | audreyt++ | group for things to work.
r10849 | audreyt++ | * err, forgot to gen main program
stevan gaal: hello and welcome to my country,.. please don't hold New Jersey against us ;) 13:09
although Hoboken is a pretty cool place
kolibrie ah, yes, gaal, welcome to the US
svnbot6 r10850 | audreyt++ | * detypo
stevan heya kolibrie, you packed yet?
kolibrie last night 13:10
stevan wow,.. now that planning
kolibrie I'm flying to Chicago tomorrow
stevan :)
kolibrie never traveled with a laptop before, any pointers?
stevan yeah,.. keep it in your carry on,.. and make sure it is well protected in the bad 13:11
s/bad/bag/
kolibrie anything special for security?
stevan hmm,.. nope
I have never had an issue
kolibrie okay
stevan the usually want you to take it out and send it through seperate from your other carry on 13:12
kolibrie when are you travelling?
stevan Sunday evening
kolibrie cool
stevan I still need to pack :) 13:13
but I got *lots* of time
kolibrie lots
stevan :)
kolibrie unfortunately still has to think about $work today, and deadline 13:14
stevan yeah me too
actually my $deadline is post-YAPC,.. which is even more of a PITA 13:15
kolibrie mine was yesterday, I think, but nobody is watching
they'll notice if it's not in production till after I get back, though 13:16
svnbot6 r10851 | audreyt++ | * Chase parrot churn: maybe_flatten is now 0x40 not 0x10 13:18
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svnbot6 r10852 | audreyt++ | * even more parrot churn and mg number chase 13:22
audreyt DebolazX: r10852 should fix it wrt parrot 0.4.5+
I raised the dep to that 13:23
so it's fine to ignore older parrots for now
thanks for reporting the churn
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DebolazX ups. 13:26
clkao audreyt: do you remember where your old bbs-thread analyzer is? 13:28
audreyt clkao: amazing question, that 13:30
no ;) 13:31
clkao audreyt: i was really surprised yesterday our old old code actually works ;)
audreyt heh. you hacking on ebx again? 13:32
making telnet BBSs a svk backend?
clkao no, i was just playing with ournet::bbs to extract some local archive
audreyt ah.
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DebolazX I'm using an installation local to my home directory which may explain this particular problem but trying to execute it with the PIR backend directly from pugs doesn't work. However, compiling to PIR and executing with parrot seems to work perfectly now. :) 13:45
Also, is this supposed to error?: pugs -e 'my $i; for (1 .. 100) { $i++ }' -CPIR > hello.pir ; parrot hello.pir 13:47
"Name '$OUTER::i' not found" and a few other bugs.
DebolazX admits lack of perl 6 knowledge. 13:48
No, wait, I read that wrong, that was the only error. 13:49
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svnbot6 r10853 | audreyt++ | * CodeGen.PIR: DebolazX++ reported that our new OUTER:: resolution 14:16
r10853 | audreyt++ | doesn't play well with PIR codegen yet. before we figure out a
r10853 | audreyt++ | good outer_sub call in PIR, just pretend there's no shadowing.
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fglock is it ok to use Perl::Tidy for formatting p6.pm output? 14:26
audreyt sure, why not 14:28
obra . o O { Better than B::Deparse } 14:29
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svnbot6 r10854 | fglock++ | v6.pm - perl5 output is perltidy'ed 14:43
sahadev ?eval my @a = 1..3; for @a -> $n {say $n} for @a, sub($n) {say $n}
evalbot_10746 Error: unexpected end of input expecting comment, term postfix, operator, ",", block construct or term
fglock 'Unmatched right curly bracket at 01-sanity/04-if.tc' - for no apparent reason 14:44
sahadev s06 says the two forms (for @a -> $n {..} and for @a, sub($n) {..}) are equivalent 14:45
the second one expects more input in pugs (r10852)
xerox "more input" ? 14:47
sahadev pugs> for @a, sub($n) {say $n}
....>
fglock audreyt, ingy: the bug is Module::Compile related (I installed M::C from CPAN) 14:48
Aankhen`` ?eval <foo bar> 14:49
evalbot_10746 ("foo", "bar")
audreyt sahadev: yup, it's currently not handled
the parser will take the comma as still in the "for" array
for 1,2,3 -> { ... } 14:50
vs
for @a, sub { ... }
I don't know how to disambig
sahadev audreyt: ok
xerox has the synchronize pugs repo and build it spree!
audreyt so maybe S06 is bad ;)
maybe it should say it's the same as
dakkar why the comma?
audreyt xerox: woot 14:51
xerox Oh, I have got fps but it compiles its own. Is it right?
audreyt &statement:<for>(@a ; sub {...})
xerox: maybe. it uses the bundled fps if your fps doesn't have .Lazy
fglock 04-if.tc works if I remove the M::C header
theorbtwo Why shouldn't we just declare the sub being part of the for arglist the right interpretation?
xerox I'm sure its pretty recent, but okay.
sahadev it works without comma: for @a sub($n) {say $n} 14:52
?eval my @a = 1..3; for @a -> $n {say $n} for @a sub($n) {say $n} 14:53
evalbot_10746 OUTPUT[1 2 3 1 2 3 ] undef
xerox Is it "working"?
audreyt theorbtwo: that's what I think, yeah
sahadev: yeah, that's correct
sahadev "works" == prints the expected output
audreyt theorbtwo: I think it's simply a typo in S06's comments
xerox Ah, they are not nested. 14:54
audreyt so let's just fix that
audreyt commiteth
theorbtwo Ah, whoops, missed that bit.
audreyt fixed in S06 r9717 14:55
sahadev audreyt++
are the synopses and other docs part of pugs distribution? I am reading from Perl6::Bible (0.30) 14:58
and, i don't find them in my copy of pugs source 14:59
audreyt docs/Perl6/Spec/ 15:00
sahadev hmm, i only see: Concurrency.pod CPAN.pod Documentation.pod Functions.pod
in docs/Perl6/Spec/
fglock later & 15:01
svnbot6 r10855 | fglock++ | v6.pm - Emitter/Perl6/Perl5.pm doesn't try to prettify the code
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audreyt sahadev: svn up to r10856 15:02
and rerun makefile.pl
svnbot6 r10856 | audreyt++ | * update the docs/Perl6 syncer
audreyt (or cd into docs/Perl6 and run it)
should give you Subroutine.pod etc 15:03
sahadev ah! much better. thanks!
xerox Seq present undeer both Data and Pugs ? 15:04
Ops.
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xerox Why is the DeepSeq module present under both Data and Pugs? 15:06
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xerox multi sub evalfile (Str $filename: Str :$lang = 'Perl6') 15:41
What is the syntax of the arguments?
audreyt evalfile("foo.p6", lang => 'Perl6') 15:42
evalfile("foo.p6", :lang<Perl6>)
xerox I am not understanding the meaning of the `:' in the argument list.
Specifically why they compare at both the end of `$filename:' and at the beginning of `:$lang'. 15:43
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particle_ the one at the end of filename seperates required (left) and optional (right) 15:52
the one before $lang means if the 'lang' arg is set, store it's result in $lang inside the sub 15:53
see S06 (dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S06.html) for more 15:54
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ingy fglock: what's the bug exactly? 16:21
fglock ingy: when I run the .tc file, I get 16:22
Unmatched right curly bracket at 01-sanity/03-equal.tc line 7
ingy in which test suite? 16:23
fglock Pugs-Compiler-Perl6$ perl -Ilib 01-sanity/03-equal.t
ingy ok, thanks 16:24
fglock run it twice, so that it run the .tc
geoffb From audreyt's blog of a day or two ago, it sounds like P6 -> P5 compile is working. Is it 100% at this point (meaning any of Perl 6 that Pugs supports will run on P5)? I've got a big mess of P5 code of various sizes that I'm itching to try porting ....
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fglock geoffb: the parser is almost ok, but there is much work to do in the runtime 16:24
geoffb (I just don't have the tuits to spare to port something knowing it won't work.)
fglock, much work == months away? 16:25
fglock see the 01-sanity dir - most tests are working
geoffb: it is just 3 days old - meybe 1 month more
xerox A baby!
geoffb Ah. Did you guys do a rewrite of the existing P5 backend from way back? 16:26
(complete rewrite, I meant)
fglock yes
geoffb Ah, OK.
Sigh ... I was getting all excited to see my graphics code running happily in P6. (I'd done a port before, but it was based on P5 embedding and was REALLY SLOW) 16:27
fglock is it a module? 16:28
geoffb The code I'd ported before was a demo program; but I also have an engine with a pile of modules that I want to port. 16:29
Of course, it had extensive source filtering to try to get P6-like ....
fglock you should try the examples in 01-sanity - they compile to almost plain p5 16:30
geoffb (And another set of source filters to build a mini-language in another place, but that's probably fodder for a real grammar)
Ooh, that's very cool to hear!
particle_ fglock: how much of PCR is based on perl6/parrot, and how much was developed in isolation? 16:31
and how can these implementations be brought together? 16:32
geoffb Hmmmm. I've got a new dev system since the last time I compiled pugs -- is someone still maintaining the debian packages? I could use that to get the build-depends, rather than tracking down everything manually like the first time.
fglock particle_: it is an independent implementation
particle_ fglock: they seem to be in similar states
fglock particle_: they have 'perl6' in common :) 16:33
pugs is much more advanced
particle_ sure 16:34
fglock and parrot has more cools things, like continuations
and typed variables
particle_ but perl6 -> pir and perl6 -> perl5 are in similar states
via PCR
it'd be nice to exchange information 16:35
eg. assignment is not yet working for p6->pir, but is for p6->p5
so, explaining the approach, how it was done, could help
fglock the old perl5 backend had more features, but it is _slow_
particle_ that sort of information exchange
fglock we are all in #perl6, and we share a lot of advice, sure 16:36
but most implementation problems are backend-specific 16:37
particle_ yes, but the architecture should be the same (excluding backend impl details)
s/architecture/algorithms/ 16:38
i guess what i'm saying is
if the approach to solving the problem is written down
in plain <localized_language>
the implementations can all be based on that canonical representation 16:39
xerox Since the parser is almost done, does it mean that the `make your syntax'-party can start?
particle_ xerox: you can look at that sideways, and say that party has started already 16:40
it's just that 'your syntax' := perl6 syntax
xerox `:=' meaning?
theorbtwo Is an alias of/for. 16:41
xerox If it is assignment I regret!
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xerox Crazy question; is it possible to do "use strict_type_system;" or something along the lines? 16:42
fglock xerox: yes, you can create your own language using this infrastructure
particle_: we are trying to use the same algorithms when possible
particle_ great
i must have missed some of the chatter 16:43
fglock the transition lrep -> PCR was mostly a rewrite of the parser 16:44
(added a precedence parser) 16:45
particle_ just like parrot/perl6 16:46
particle_ updates pugs and downloads Moose 16:47
xerox Moose Moose Moose? 16:48
particle_ hrmm, can i use 'cpan' to install a devel version of Moose?
i guess i need to dl it seperately :( 16:49
xerox Moose Moose Moose? (:
fglock particle_: there is the #moose channel 16:52
particle_ good to know. on freenet? 16:54
16:54 Ymmv joined
fglock the pod says: "The #moose channel on irc.perl.org" 16:55
17:04 FB|hl2 is now known as FurnaceBoy
particle_ could perl::tidy be optional for PCP6? 17:18
Aankhen`` Is either "P5" or "Perl5" allowed as a regex modifier, or is it only "Perl5"? 17:19
17:19 shachaf joined
particle_ i think :P5 works 17:19
fglock particle_: sure - would you add a patch? :)
particle_ fglock i can work on that, yes 17:20
Aankhen`` It does work, and so does "perl5", but I'm not sure whether that's the intended behaviour or just a leftover.
particle_ first i need to get PCP6 working
aanhken: audrey used it in slides last night, if that makes you feel better ;)
particle_ checks the docs
Aankhen`` It does, thanks. ;-) 17:21
stevan wonders if PCP-6 is stronger than plain old PCP
particle_ from S05: The extended syntax (/x) is no longer required...it's the default. (In fact, it's pretty much mandatory--the only way to get back to the old syntax is with the :Perl5/:P5 modifier.)
Aankhen`` Ah, cool.
particle_ what's the nopaste variant for this channel? 17:22
paste?
stevan paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6
particle_: if you install the devel version of Moose,.. you will also need to install the latest devel version of Class::MOP 17:23
pasteling "particle_" at 144.81.84.131 pasted "PCP6 failure" (15 lines, 835B) at sial.org/pbot/17926
stevan the fact that CPAN.pm does not handle devel versions makes this a real PITA
particle_ yes, it does 17:24
audrey installed it on my laptop last night
stevan cool
particle_ i want to get my desktop up to speed
there's also a Scalar::Util patch
since i have perl 5.8.7
stevan there is actually a new Moose just released this morning,.. but its nothing important,. just some small tweaks 17:25
fglock particle_: did you run 'make' on Pugs::Compiler::Rule? it needs make to run properly
particle_ fglock: where's the makefile?
fglock Pugs-Compiler-Rule/Makefile.PL (not Pugs-Compiler-Perl6) 17:26
particle_ ah
fglock some Pugs::Compiler::Rule parts are written in lrep, which depends on 'make' to work 17:27
particle_ the dependency chain grows...
fglock it will be rewritten in v6.pm, so that we'll get a dependency problem anyway 17:28
the Rule grammar is a Perl 6 grammar
particle_ same as parrot/perl6
fglock it's 'metacircular'
particle_ well, a little different 17:29
but similar
fglock yes - that's something parrot got from lrep :)
particle_ >perl -Ilib hello_world.pl 17:30
hello, world
yay!
fglock++
fglock particle_: see hello_world.plc
particle_ yep, open in vim now
how is the checksum generated? 17:31
fglock it is handled by Module::Compile 17:32
particle_ ah.
fglock see lib/v6.pm
audreyt ingy magic :)
s/ /&/ 17:33
17:33 buetow joined
particle_ i have trouble with this <<perl v6.pm -e "some perl 6 code">> 17:35
from v6.pm
fglock perl -Ilib lib/v6.pm -e 'some code' ?
particle_ Pugs-Compiler-Perl6\lib>perl v6.pm -e"<hello>.say"
parsing error in Expression: ...... at ../lib/Pugs/Grammar/Perl6.pm line 14
You may not specify any filenames when a source array is given
fglock it needs a semicolon - it's a grammar bug :( 17:36
particle_ i see. so, still fails "you may not..."
fglock I'm not sure if <> works properly - untested
particle_ s/so/no/
fglock testing
it works if you put it in a file - maybe a Module::Compile problem? 17:39
the command line extension is just one-day-old - not much tested
oh, and it works without the semicolon :) 17:40
perl -Ilib -e ' use v6-pugs; <hello>.say ' - doesn't work either 17:41
particle_ i was hoping perl -Mv6-pugs -e'...' would work, but that hack's not available with -M i guess 17:42
fglock but it works if you put it on a file
particle_ no p6 one-liners for now... i can live with that!
Aankhen`` stevan: I am happy to report that Moose gives me that nice tingly feeling all over. :-D 17:43
xerox A01 talks about one-liners.
fglock particle_: "any filenames..." - it is a Perl::Tidy message 17:45
so maybe not difficult to fix - will look
Perl::Tidy needs to see an empty @ARGV 17:46
particle_ ah
another reason to make it optional :)
stevan Aankhen``: thanks :) 17:51
Aankhen``: that could be a rash though,.. M??se are wild animals,. and who knows where they might have been
Aankhen`` stevan: Uh oh.
stevan Aankhen``: check out Moose::Autobox as well 17:52
svnbot6 r10857 | fglock++ | v6.pm - fixed Perl::Tidy view of command line args 17:53
Aankhen`` checks.
fglock perl -Ilib lib/v6.pm -e '<hello>.say;' - works again
17:54 coumbes joined
fglock perl -Ilib lib/v6.pm --compile-only -e '<hello>.say;' 17:55
audreyt
(no plus-plus?) 17:56
Aankhen`` stevan: Ah, sweet stuff.
stevan aautobox.pm is not that scary once you get to know it :)
although I am not yet crazy enough to use it in production 17:57
Aankhen`` nods.
I misplaced my time machine, else I'd have lent it to you. :-(
stevan :)
particle_ use your space machine to find it :)
Aankhen`` particle_: I think that folded in on itself. 17:58
If I recall correctly, this folding happened a few seconds after I asked it to locate a girl who'd go out with me. 17:59
fglock particle_: --compile-only shows the perl5 code :)
Limbic_Region Aankhen`` - finding a girl to go out with you should not have caused space to fold in on itself. Asking to a find a girl that you WANT to go out with that would indeed go out with you should have resulted in a singularity though 18:01
particle_ fglock: almost...
Aankhen`` Good point. Maybe I misunderstood my question.
particle_ >perl -Ilib lib/v6.pm --compile-only -e"<hello>.say" 18:02
parsing error in Expression: ...... at lib/../lib/Pugs/Grammar/Perl6.pm line 14
use Pugs::Runtime::Perl6;
use strict;
stevan signs up for Limbic_Region's "Girlfriends & Physics 101" class
bjoern_ sounds good. well, except for the physics. 18:03
fglock particle_: please add a ';' until I fix the grammar... 18:04
particle_ oh, heh.
i knew that
where's the grammar?
fglock the statement grammar is misplaced at Pugs::Grammar::Operator - but it would be easier to just add a ';' to the source, in v6.pm (with a XXX comment) 18:05
Limbic_Region stevan - good choice, the Wives and Physics curriculum is the standard variety sucking blackhole of death
Limbic_Region ducks from SWMBO 18:06
stevan :)
fglock or to fiddle with the lexer, in Pugs::Grammar::Expression
18:06 dasein joined
particle_ yeah. but first, a test 18:07
fglock statements are currently mixed up with expressions, but they should be at separate levels
particle_ have you done any writing about this? or is the code/tests the documentation? 18:08
fglock the writing is scattered around in lrep, Pugs::Compiler::Rule, irc logs, TODO files - it need some organization 18:09
a gobby session would be nice 18:10
snowstalker fglock, gobby? 18:12
fglock snowstalker: darcs.0x539.de/trac/obby/cgi-bin/trac.cgi 18:13
particle_ www.softpedia.com/reviews/linux/Gob...6804.shtml
snowstalker aah ok, i've heard about subethaedit but didn't know about gobby :) 18:14
fglock bbiab &
/bbiab 18:19
fglock reads chromatic reply to perl6-compiler re backends 18:22
'the most complete implementation' - that's not the point (and not true) 18:23
'Some people believe' is a bit harsh 18:24
particle_ i don't see that as harsh 18:25
fglock I could add a parrot emitter to PC-P6 - that would take a couple of days with a little help 18:26
particle_ i could help 18:27
in fact, i'd love to
fglock particle_: open lib/Pugs/Emitter/Perl6/Perl5.pm - and s/perl5 code/parrot code/ 18:29
prefiks ?eval $_='abc'; .\ say
evalbot_10746 Error: unexpected "\\" expecting ".", subroutine name, array subscript, hash subscript or code subscript
fglock you'll need some runtime routines - you can reuse the ones emitted by pugs (for example) 18:30
then add the new backend as an option to Pugs::Compiler::Perl6.pm; and maybe a teak of v6.pm to call parrot 18:32
particle_ i'll copy it to PIR.pm
fglock s/teak/tweak/ 18:33
prefiks fglock: what is needed to switch PCP to ratchet rules implementation?
fglock particle_ plus-plus (I can't see the plus symbol today) testing [ ]
prefiks: copy the files locally, and see what breaks - there are a few differences in the implementations, but most things should work 18:35
however, most of the slowness today is load-time, due to not precompiling the p6 grammar 18:36
(we are only running short programs)
particle_ fglock: currently perl6/parrot does perl6->parse->PAST->POST->PIR 18:37
it's possible, that PCP6 could look like perl6->parse->PAST 18:38
then use the parrot tool chain for the rest
ZuluOne ooh
have just remembered I was going to ask
What is the result of a disallowed cast? Does it throw an exn?
Couldn't find it in synopses. 18:39
fglock particle_: sure, high level is best
particle_: you can reuse the Pugs::Compiler::Perl6.pm code to write a test-pir.pl
18:39 coumbes joined
fglock what is the format parrot uses for PAST - yaml? 18:40
Aankhen`` Yaml, yaml. 18:41
xerox expand_acronym("YAML")
fglock yet another markup language
xerox Why is a markup language spread all out inside Pugs? 18:42
18:42 cognominal joined
fglock it's a way to represent internal binary structures as plain text 18:42
Aankhen`` Because it rolls off the tongue! 18:43
ZuluOne so do peas, but that's no reason to base a compiler on them
:->
Aankhen`` ZuluOne: Have you tried?
xerox fglock - I see, is it foreseen as good for something specific, or is it done JustForFun ?
ZuluOne only garden, not mushy 18:44
Aankhen`` ZuluOne: Tsk, tsk.
stevan proudly displays his mashed potatoe based interpreter
fglock particle_: later on, we can try PAST->Perl5 :)
bpphillips fglock: actually YAML == "YAML Ain't Markup Language" (source en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML)
stevan my next step is to add peas
particle_ fglock: no PAST and POST are in TGE syntax
18:44 pmurias joined
particle_ TGE is parrot tree grammar engine 18:44
pmurias hi
particle_ see /compilers/tge/ and t/compilers/tge/ in the parrot repo 18:45
pmurias pmurias is installing gentoo on his laptop, and he has to finish today...
xerox Anyone got an example of a YAML outcome of some source file? 18:46
prefiks top dir of pugs - config.yml
fglock once we get PAST, and rewrite PC-P6 to v6.pm, it won't matter anymore in which backend it runs
prefiks ups osrry
fglock bpphillips: thanks 18:47
this is still a month or two away 18:48
xerox: META.yml in pugs base directory 18:50
particle_: I think TGE can be used to process the PC-P6 match tree - all you need is to dump it to a file 18:53
xerox fglock - It looks like Cabal files!
18:54 Odin- joined
fglock xerox: yaml is just a specification for things people were already using anyway :) 18:55
xerox I am noticing :-)
But it is really used for spit out parsed/compiled bits?
fglock xerox: try - pugs -h 18:56
particle_: ping 18:57
particle_ here
ETOOMANYTHREADS 18:58
particle_ joins some work & real life threads
fglock I think TGE is powerful enough to process the match tree that PC-P6 uses internally, and to generate PAST from it
xerox fglock - Is it there any source I can try to compile?
particle_ fglock: great, i expected as much
parse tree -> TGE
xerox examples/ ! 18:59
fglock xerox: pugs -CPIL1-YAML -e ' "hi!".say '
xerox Bang! 19:00
gaal is back from a morning in manhattan. fun! 19:01
particle_ fglock: how does that change things for me? i assume i'll no longer be modifying the emitter code
svnbot6 r10859 | audreyt++ | * Pugs.Parser.Operator: Re-implement the "state" FIRST block translation
r10859 | audreyt++ | hack via a partial rewriting of all assignment forms:
r10859 | audreyt++ | state $x = 1;
r10859 | audreyt++ | becomes
r10859 | audreyt++ | state $x;
r10859 | audreyt++ | FIRST { $x = 1; }
r10859 | audreyt++ | Currently it's only extended to "=" and ".=", because I'm not sure
r10859 | audreyt++ | what "initializer" really means in S02 (in particular for :=). TimToady?
particle_ manhattan++
fglock particle_: all you need is
$self->{ast} = Pugs::Grammar::Perl6->parse( $self->{source} )
xerox gaal - Howdy!
gaal yo!
fglock $ast = Pugs::Grammar::Perl6->parse( $self->{source} )
actually
$ast = Pugs::Grammar::Perl6->parse( $source ) 19:02
whatever
gaal audreyt++ # emit_yaml
particle_ then feed the $ast out to TGE
lumi Hi Gaal
gaal hey lumi 19:03
fglock $self->{ast}() - is the part that you need
$ast->() - sorry
xerox What does '::' divide up there?
particle_ np, i'd figure out that part
xerox ...or connect, if you want (:
particle_ xerox: namespaces
gaal xerox: akin to A.Haskell.Module 19:04
xerox And what about the final '->' ?
gaal perl 5 method invocation 19:05
xerox Is it sage to read Apocalypse, & co. nowadays to get a grasp of p6? 19:06
gaal xerox: read the Synopses.
fglock particle_: the tree emitted by Pugs::Grammar::Perl6 is not an 'ast' as the one emitted by pugs - you'll may need to do some further work on it 19:07
particle_ xerox: dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/synopsis.html 19:08
fglock: i'll spit it out and have a look. Data::Dumper best?
fglock xerox: please note that Pugs::Grammar::Perl6 is written in perl 5 (perl 6 uses a dot for method calls)
xerox Gotcha. 19:09
fglock particle_: just uncomment the 'die' in Emitter/Perl5 line 37
particle_ btw parrot/perl6 has --target and --dump options, so you can say --target=[parse|PAST|POST|PIR]
ZuluOne in examples/vmethods/math.p6, are the is_even and is_odd functions the wrong way around or is it just me?
multi sub is_even (Int $value:) { $value % 2 == 1; } 19:10
particle_ ...and --dump dumps each phase one by one
ZuluOne and ditto with s/1/0/; s/even/odd/;
fglock someone could add those options to v6.pm :)
particle_ looks for someone 19:11
particle_ covers the mirrors ;)
fglock: see the tree, thx 19:12
fglock ZuluOne: yes, it looks wrong 19:13
particle_: the tree format is a bit unstable, as the grammar gets fixed 19:14
particle_ sure, understood
ZuluOne Further evidence, I quote from examples/output/vmethods/math:
fglock for example - ';' is always parsed as a list operator, even if it is between statements
ZuluOne 5 is even
8 is odd
particle_ perhaps you can build perl6/parrot
fglock ZuluOne: odd 19:15
ZuluOne even
fglock :)
particle_ and run ..\..\parrot perl6.pbc --target=parse
to get an idea of the parrot ast
fglock particle_: trying... 19:16
particle_ note method calls don't work yet
so <<say "hello world">> will probably be a better example
audreyt fglock: I took the AST draft we did via gobby the other day 19:20
and worked out a much more complete graph with MS/CLR people yesterday
I'll try to translate it to english in Chicago 19:21
hopefully with pmichaud and TimToady
fglock audreyt: so we can have a unified AST format soon?
audreyt I certainly hope so, it's long overdue 19:22
PerlJam one AST to rule them all and in the darkness bind them? 19:23
audreyt one possibility is to use PCR or PGE to run rules
instead of Parsec
and get the AST building part embedded inside the rules with miniperl6
particle_ audreyt++ 19:24
audreyt <- that "Some people" chromatic mentioned
(I just replied to him)
particle_ @audreyt
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
PerlJam yes, audreyt++
audreyt fglock: I need to type down the meeting notes etc 19:27
19:27 Ymmv joined
audreyt the outline we based on is perlcabal.org/~audreyt/tmp/P6AST.jpg 19:27
fglock @audreyt as in @larry :)
audreyt right, everyone knows that I'm just an Asian consortium
;)
FurnaceBoy better than consort ? 19:28
audreyt maybe a consortium is the chemical element all consorts are made from
FurnaceBoy hahaha
fglock btw: is there an easy way to convert from 'pos' to 'line' when reporting syntax errors? 19:29
audreyt well if you have the original string around 19:30
fglock maybe Match sould provide this as a method
audreyt that's just a tr///\n etc
fglock should
ok
audreyt Parsec keeps pos+line as part of its state
so makes parsing a bit slower
but access much faster
you can also cache it
timtowtdi
gaal just noticed that YAML::Syck's LoadFile uses a Perly file slurp. Would it make sense to load the file in c, bypassing IO layers and stuff, for speed? 19:31
ZuluOne which reminds me, is tr/// supposed to work in {P6,Pugs}? 19:32
audreyt gaal: yes. commits welcome
ZuluOne: it's renamed to .trans
ZuluOne aha
audreyt see S05
the implementation is given out in src/perl6/Prelude.pm
line 389 as a Str method 19:33
gaal I'm on it
fglock re: P6AST.jpg - also add some 'meta' info, like 'pos' and 'comment'?
or you just assume the source file is around 19:34
audreyt fglock: I this this is not parse tree anymore 19:35
so while each node can also carry annotation to the original parse tree
they are result objects
the pos lives in the match object
comments too
so you need to retrieve those from the match tree
not the semantics tree
ZuluOne thanks 19:36
gaal hey is for @list, CODE no longer valid?
audreyt gaal: indeed because I can't make it work
gaal (following recent S commit)
audreyt statement_control:<for>(@list ; CODE) maybe
consider
gaal okay, i'll update the peek talk slides then :-)
audreyt for 1, { 2 } { 3 }
gaal (have an "option comma" :) 19:37
audreyt is that a loop then a statement level bare
or is that two terms to be looped with {3}?
gaal *nod*
couldn't it be stipulated to mean option #1, and if you want 2 you need parens? 19:38
for (1, {2}) {3}
looks reasonable to me, how often do you want to iterate over immediately specified closures? 19:39
audreyt the thing is that whenever you see opening { 19:41
in the cond part
it's immediately taken to mean the boyd
so it has to parse as #1 19:42
gaal cond part!? this isn't an if, it's a for
fglock audreyt: match tree == syntax; ast tree == semantic ? 19:44
audreyt fglock: yeah I think
gaal: I can't see a reason why for needs to be parsed diffferently than if. 19:45
Limbic_Region don't you love how she always sounds like she knows what she is talking about except when she isn't sure 19:46
audreyt they are the same thing, control-wise, now
fglock or maybe not - match tree == raw data; ast tree == objects
audreyt fglock: the thing is the match tree carries the ast tree around
Limbic_Region: mmm? :)
Limbic_Region audreyt - just when you were telling fglock to retrieve things from the match tree not the syntax tree 19:48
then when he asked to confirm what those 2 things were - you caveated your response with "I think"
gaal huh? if takes 1 or 2 control blocks. for takes one. always.
audreyt Limbic_Region: oh. but I really think that :) 19:49
gaal: if takes optional else
Limbic_Region would be scared to think of audreyt as a military leader
audreyt - I just meant that I bet a lot of people don't question even your musings - just accept that it is right
SamB thinks fglock sounds like a syscall 19:51
19:52 regex joined
fglock is called back 19:52
gaal audreyt: what is else syntactically?
audreyt gaal: I'm checking in a unification. 19:53
a sec
19:53 perlbot joined
audreyt Limbic_Region: that would be a very bad thing... I think TimToady actively try to discourage people do that 19:54
gaal k. in the meanwhile: where has the implementation of Load moved to? is it LoadYAML/LoadJSON in perl_syck.h? 19:55
19:55 coumbes joined
audreyt gaal: "else" is syntactically a subrule of "if" 19:55
gaal just doesn't question audreyt's moosings.
audreyt gaal: it's in perlsyck.h
gaal so they are parsed differently :)
audreyt line 349
gaal yeah okay
audreyt yes, but for/while/until/given/when shoudl parsesame 19:56
gaal uh, educate me about XS please: how come this function accepts a char *?
audreyt tyepmap
gaal does XS translate a scalar to a c buffer automatically? that's insane
hmm
wait, how could that even work in the general case? (embeded NULs e.g.) 19:57
audreyt can't
CString carries no guarantee 19:58
but with Load we don't care
fglock it's reasonably easy to change v6.pm to P6AST.jpg - except for a few parts
gaal I know c strings don't, that's why I'm asking how XS permits itself to exposes that
sure
svnbot6 r10860 | audreyt++ | * Unify parsing of for/while/until/given/when. They are all
r10860 | audreyt++ | subject to the brace-terminating rule that governs "if" now
r10860 | audreyt++ | as specified in S03, and all of them takes a (maybe pointy)
r10860 | audreyt++ | sub literal as body.
audreyt gaal: see r10860 19:59
because TimToady wants 20:00
while f(...) -> $x { ... }
as well as
if g(...) -> $x { ... }
and same for given/when/for
fglock else -> $x {...} ?
audreyt why not? :) 20:01
if f(...) { ... } else -> $x { ... } 20:02
"if it's false, I want to know how it's false"
pmurias is there any documentation for typemaps besides perlxs?
gaal er, what is $x?
audreyt gaal: the actual value
gaal i mean what value is bound to it?
from the cond?
audreyt yeah
gaal that's useful
audreyt yup 20:03
fglock is it bound to $_ otherwise?
like in a for
pmurias if f(...) &sub would also work then?
particle_ and $x is lexically scoped inside the if
gaal that would be surprising
audreyt pmurias: it's not a literal, so no, I don't think
gaal particle_: that $x would be lexically scoped is certain 20:04
audreyt fglock: no, I don't think if/unless should bind to $_
gaal like any pointy block
audreyt that's another thing that set them apart
particle_ gaal: agreed. # no question mark
gaal fglock: I agree, otherwise C< if .valid { say } would be surprising
particle_: oh ACK 20:05
gah, I forgot about the acute pleasures of portable c code
fglock just checking how far the unification can go
audreyt: re 'it's not a literal' - is this just for historical reasons? 20:07
20:07 Aankhen`` joined
fglock it could work if you added a semicolon 20:07
audreyt or you can call statement_control:<if>() as a function 20:08
if f(...) {sub($_)}
pmurias i don't understand the semicolon statement , example please 20:09
20:09 miyagawa joined
fglock if f(...) &sub; - but I was just asking 20:09
ZuluOne how is "\x{abcd}" spelt these days? Can't find it anywhere. 20:10
particle_ "\x[beef]" 20:11
is one spelling
i think S03
no, sorry S02 "Literals" section near bottom 20:12
svnbot6 r10861 | audreyt++ | * implement: 20:13
r10861 | audreyt++ | if 3 -> $x { say $x }
ZuluOne aha 20:14
I just read right past it twice.
particle_ finally gets gobby installed 20:15
svnbot6 r10862 | audreyt++ | * revert the unification for the duration of my Galois talk --
r10862 | audreyt++ | will finish the ->$x change after that
20:18 Stoffie joined
particle_ audrey: see chip's response to 'lexical lookup and OUTER' on p6i? 20:18
Stoffie greets
particle_ am i right that OUTER:: starts the lexical lookup one scope up?
audreyt ZuluOne: the specs are fractal :)
particle_: sure 20:19
particle_ checks his specs
okay, so OUTER::OUTER:: is senseless
audreyt why?
particle_ i'm sorry
not senseless
audreyt my $x = 3; { my $x = 5; { say $OUTER::OUTER::x } }
particle_ right
but not necessary for my $x = 3; { { say $OUTER::x } } 20:20
above should print '3'
ZuluOne audreyt: In that the closer you look at them the more complexity you see?
audreyt ZuluOne: yes
particle_: sure
particle_ zuluone: back away from the monitor
audreyt actually just ask evalbot
?eval my $x = 3; { { say $OUTER::x } } 20:21
evalbot_10746 OUTPUT[3 ] Bool::True
particle_ i'm gonna copy those two lines back to chip, thx
audreyt woot
ZuluOne Why doesn't C<for =$*IN { s:P5:g/stuff/otherstuff/; ... } do what I want? 20:22
20:23 Stoffie is now known as Stoffie_
ZuluOne s/\}/}>/ 20:23
audreyt let's see... 20:24
ZuluOne It tells me Can't modify constant item: VStr "stuff"
audreyt yeah.
for =$*IN -> $_ is rw { ... }
gets you that
trying to find if it's pugsbug or specerr
pugsbug. S04. 20:26
write a test?
gaal gets irritated enough at implementing slurp in c that he quits his procrastination and goes back to writing slides
particle_ writing slides... you must be desperate! :) 20:27
ZuluOne hold on
audreyt I am actually writing the slides on the big screen now 20:28
Limbic_Region gaal - isn't writing slurp in C insanely easy? . o O ( unless of course you want it to behave sanely)
ZuluOne am now eating ice cream so ENOHANDS
audreyt anyway, the talk is about start :)
bbiab... 20:29
gaal Limbic_Region: it is when I have my choice of tools. #include <glib.h> g_file_get_contents(...)
but implementing that portably is just a lot of manual labor
Limbic_Region gaal - right, behaving sanely and all
gaal nothing very tricky, mind you, just very dull
20:29 cognominal joined
audreyt ZuluOne: ok. do write a test -- it's part of this oil-for-food^Wtest-for-fix program 20:30
:)
gaal: pass fd to syck 20:31
void syck_parser_file( SyckParser *, FILE *, SyckIoFileRead );
gaal I like programming in c from time to time, it reminds me of the tons of yak hair Perl has shaved off for me
audreyt: hmm but that means not reusing LoadYAML
basically duplicating it -- either that or fiddling around with macros some more 20:32
eh, no, cpp isn't reentrant
20:32 Stoffie_ is now known as Stoffie
ZuluOne audreyt: on it now 20:33
but it might take a while
20:33 Stoffie left
gaal proof that Perl 6 is still a while off: Perl 6 is so useful, and should save so much time, if it were to be released in the future all programs would have already been finished before they were started. 20:34
20:36 Stoffie joined 20:46 snowstalker left 20:47 bpphillips left
particle_ & # fish fry 20:48
ZuluOne audreyt: It is already tested. t/statements/for.t line 186 20:54
svnbot6 r10863 | fglock++ | v6.pm - no problem if you don't have Perl::Tidy installed 20:57
ZuluOne Oh, another reason the synopses are fractal: it takes many iterations to produce good-looking approximations to the theoretical true language spec. 20:59
21:06 ruz joined
svnbot6 r10864 | fglock++ | v6.pm - added Makefile.PL 21:12
r10865 | fglock++ | v6.pm - Makefile.PL 'recommends Perl::Tidy'
21:14 jdv79 joined
jdv79 sial.org/pbot/17931 21:14
any ideas?
gaal jdv79: when's the last time you built your pugs? try make clean 21:21
jdv79 i checked out maybe 4 hours ago and built it for the first time 21:22
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fglock ponders whether to send v6.pm to cpan 21:31
21:38 fglock left 21:45 weinig|working joined 21:46 weinig|working is now known as weinig
audreyt jdv79: run "perl Makefile.PL" 21:55
and see if there's fps error
gaal beh. in spork::kwiki, how do I italicize a string with a "/" in it? 22:01
/like, for example, I with this came with an on/off switch/
whee, I typo with a lisp 22:02
audreyt \/ ?
not sure
&#12345;
?
gaal &#47 does't work
audreyt use another unicode / ?
on-off switch?
obra seen nothingmuch
jabbot obra: nothingmuch was seen 23 hours 38 minutes 25 seconds ago
jdv79 it seems to be ok 22:03
gaal well the real string is "flaky/per-platform" :)
audreyt flaky & per-platform?
flaky 'n' per-platform?
kolibrie prepares for departure to yapc & 22:04
jdv79 sial.org/pbot/17932
there's the perl Makefile.PL output...
gaal "insidious" :)
bon voyage kolibrie
audreyt jdv79: and what "make" says now?
22:05 coumbes joined
jdv79 my box is slow, just a moment:) 22:06
22:08 Stoffie joined
svnbot6 r10866 | Sage++ | Converging audrey's changes with the new tree model. 22:10
r10867 | Sage++ | Converging audrey's changes with the new tree model. translate and translate-sage currently the same. 22:13
jdv79 finally, sial.org/pbot/17933 22:19
does one have to build twice before it works - self referential anywhere? :) 22:21
audreyt er, you do have to run Makefile.PL before make 22:25
trying to fix that problem now with Cabal designer SyntaxNinja
svnbot6 r10868 | audreyt++ | * revert completely -- moral of the story: don't commit before a talk 22:28
jdv79 what i did is co from the repo and ran perl Makefile.PL , make, make install 22:30
the standard, or so i thought
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audreyt mm strange 22:35
22:49 dduncan joined
jdv79 don't worry about it - pugs builds, last time i tried, on my personal box which is fedora 22:52
this is a work box running RH
its just a little odd
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