pugscode.org | temporary feather address: perl6.wall.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
Set by allbery_b on 24 March 2007.
Limbic_Region just ordered a pizza 00:00
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lichtkind good night 00:15
DarkWolf84 good night all 00:29
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Lorn hi 01:02
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Jedai666 Hello, am I the only one who can't commit ? 12:34
moritz Jedai666: haven't tried for a while... 12:35
Jedai666: what's the error message?
Jedai666: DNS problems?
last commit was roughly 25 Hours ago
Patterner I bet a woman put the "commit" part into Subversion. 12:40
moritz Patterner: why?
Patterner men cannot commit :P 12:41
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svnbot6 r15806 | fglock++ | mp6 - added '...' regex syntax, instead of <'...'> 12:55
moritz Jedai666: obviously committing works for somebody else ;) 12:56
xinming hmm, May I know what is the developement stage for perl 6 alpha please? :-P 12:57
Busy with work, not chat much for a while. >_<
pasteling "evalbot_r15805" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (13 lines, 559B) at sial.org/pbot/23888
svnbot6 r15807 | fglock++ | kp6 - <'...'> cleanup 13:04
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pasteling "evalbot_r15806" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (284 lines, 15.6K) at sial.org/pbot/23889 13:08
Lorn hi, people, we ( me, fglock, and another friend ) need a idea :) in the next month, we doing a hackthon, but, we dont know, what need to devel for perl6 ( sorry for the "broken engrish" :P ) 13:09
xinming Lorn: Perl 6 alpha. :-) 13:16
riffraff fix every failing test, ever? 13:17
xinming thinks, people like self-hosting perl more than tests results. :-P 13:18
13:18 Jedai666 is now known as Jedai
Jedai The error message I get when I try to commit : 13:19
svn: MKACTIVITY de '/pugs/!svn/act/dd636b52-58a8-b34f-a41a-7b774bac5fa7': 403 Fo 13:20
rbidden (svn.pugscode.org)
I found webpage that seems to suggest it's a case problem 13:21
Others (like the Apache Committer FAQ) suggest that's because I need to use the https rep and not http, so I used svn switch but it still doesn't work 13:22
kolibrie Jedai: it looks like your account is still 'pending'. The next step is to reply to the commitbit invitation - I can send you a new one if you need it
Jedai kolibrie: No I already did that (I'm logged in commitbit.pugscode right now), is there another step I missed ? 13:26
kolibrie Jedai: I don't think so, but you still show up as 'pending' on my display 13:27
Jedai: you are chaddai.fouche
?
Jedai Yes, I am 13:28
kolibrie Jedai: I'll send you another invitation
Jedai Thanks again
I'll try to get it right this time ! ;) 13:29
kolibrie Jedai: oh, that's why, you have 'Jedai' and 'jedai' 13:30
Jedai: the lowercase one is pending - and probably is what your subversion is set to 13:31
the uppercase one is all set up
Jedai Yes, I had a commitbit some long time ago, but I lost the computer I had recorded the info on it
kolibrie so you should be able change your subversion to use the 'Jedai' one, and I can delete the other account 13:32
or, the other way around
Jedai Could you try to delete the "jedai" account then
kolibrie Jedai: done 13:33
Jedai It doesn't seems to solve the problem... :( 13:34
kolibrie Jedai: did you change your subversion to use the uppercase username? 13:35
kolibrie sent Jedai an invitation for the 'Jedai' account, too 13:36
Jedai I already used the uppercase username but I hoped it was a case problem
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kolibrie Jedai: try setting up commitbit again, or verifying you can log in on the web, then verify you are using those same credentials from your subversion 13:38
Jedai Ok I tried to use your new invitation and it seems to have done the trick, thank you :D
kolibrie Jedai: okay, good!
commit away
svnbot6 r15808 | Jedai++ | t/examples/99problems/problem90.t optimized
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pnu ' 14:01
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DarkWolf84 ?eval our $a=1; sub change{ my let $a=2; return 1; } change(); say $a; 15:11
15:11 evalbot_r15797 is now known as evalbot_r15808
evalbot_r15808 OUTPUT[1ā¤] Bool::True 15:11
DarkWolf84 ?eval our $a=1; sub change{ let $a=2; return 1; } change(); say $a;
evalbot_r15808 Error: No such subroutine: &let
DarkWolf84 :> 15:12
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DrSlump hello 15:56
[particle] howdy 15:57
moritz foo() 15:58
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DarkWolf84 hi 16:11
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jrockway wow, one of my coworkers knows the perl6/christmas inside joke 16:31
i am impressed.
moritz ;)
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DarkWolf84 0_0 16:38
what joke? 16:48
moritz DarkWolf84: p6 will be released on christmas 16:49
DarkWolf84 haha
moritz DarkWolf84: though we don't know _which_ christmas...
DarkWolf84: but one p6 is released _every_ day is christmas ;)
DarkWolf84 oh right, got it :) 16:50
[particle] does that mean p6 will be released every day? 16:51
DarkWolf84 I heared it the day before
moritz [particle]: no, we will just change our notion of "day" ;)
[particle] we need a BP (before perl) and AL (in the year of larry) year designations 16:52
[particle] hopes this year is 1BP 16:53
moritz [particle]: will we have a year 0, or will we repeat old mistakes?
DarkWolf84 :)
[particle] @years[*] 16:54
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
diotalevi There was some reason I recall hearing from #perl6 wanting to md5 the callstack. Can anyone recall what the purpose of that is?
DarkWolf84 may be it will be any @christmas
:P
i hope p6 will be released this year 17:02
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[particle] well, parrot won't be ready this year, i can almost guarantee. 17:05
jrockway DarkWolf84: unlikely
[particle] not unless we get a lot more help
jrockway basically perl6 needs to be written 2 more times
moritz jrockway: why so often?
jrockway because it has to bootstrap itself
diotalevi "Perl 6", "Perl 6", ok, we're done now?
moritz jrockway: it can be bootstraped with pugs, can't, it?
17:05 sachu is now known as manju
jrockway pugs isn't done 17:06
DarkWolf84 pugs can't host itself
jrockway although the parts of pugs written in perl6 can be reused i assume
assume
17:06 manju is now known as manjuj
jrockway i do not know enough to say for sure :) 17:06
moritz jrockway: I know, but it's further than p6-in-p6
jrockway yeah
perl6 is a really big project
it's condensing though
moritz jrockway: so we only need to write 1 and a half p6 implementations ;) 17:07
jrockway people have a feel for it now
so that's a good sign
[particle] the test suite needs to be refactored heavily
jrockway yeah, i noticed that
[particle] before it can be reused by non-pugs projects
jrockway wonders how many tests are duplicates
[particle] think coverity could help?
17:07 diotalevi joined
[particle] that'd be nice, looking for test code duplication :) 17:08
DarkWolf84 :)
some parts like let and temp vars r broken for now 17:09
pugscc don't work
manjuj hi. i would like to contribute to Pugs. i know C programming, and am willing to learn Perl and Haskell. Where do I start? 17:10
DarkWolf84 there is a mach work to be done
[particle] all the todo info in tests must be made platform specific, and moved to adverbial style
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[particle] manjuj: welcome! 17:10
xinming manjuj: #perl. :-P
manjuj: hold on please
dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/synopsis.html
lambdabot Title: Synopses - perl6
[particle] first things first, what's your email address, i'll give you a commit bit
xinming manjuj: dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/synopsis.html
lambdabot Title: Synopses - perl6 17:11
xinming Ok,
xinming think [particle] is right
manjuj [particle]: [email@hidden.address]
[particle] sent an invite 17:12
manjuj [particle]: thanks
[particle] it's customary to add your name to AUTHORS to test your commit bit
manjuj i haven't got the mail yet, does the mail contain pointers as to how to do the followup? 17:14
moritz manjuj: yes
manjuj: I managed to understand it, so everybody should ;) 17:15
[particle] and the mail does take a few minutes, it's not immediate. dunno why.
manjuj moritz: thanks
[particle]:ok
[particle] manjuj: if you'd like to program in C straight away, there's plenty of work to do on parrot.
if you'd like to work in perl/haskell, pugs is the project for you
moritz duh, /me just added a whole serendipity installation to an svn repository - 25 MB at once :( 17:16
manjuj [particle]: ok
[particle] me and the other parrot folks hang out an #parrot on irc.perl.org
moritz perhaps that was not the best idea ;)
PerlJam manjuj++ the more the merrier! :-) 17:17
perlmonkey2 [particle] I've looked at the timeline, but I still am not sure why there are two seperate projects for Perl6. Is it that Pugs might be v1.0 by the end of the year and Parrot won't be finished for much longer? 17:18
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moritz perlmonkey2: no, it's a bit different... 17:19
perlmonkey2: p6 will be written in p6...
self hosting
so it has to be written in p6
and it will use parrot as a backend
perlmonkey2 But first it needs to be written in something else.
PerlJam perlmonkey2: What makes you think there are two separate projects for perl6? ;)
moritz and pugs will bootstrap p6
perlmonkey2: that's what pugs is for (apart from beeing fun ;-) 17:20
[particle] perlmonkey2: the only thing "official" about perl 6 is the spec, and the test suite 17:21
there will not be One Official Implementation
perlmonkey2 Doesn't Parrot make Pugs unnecessary though?
PerlJam perlmonkey2: no.
[particle] so, implementors are free to write it in parrot, or perl 5, or haskell, etc 17:22
perlmonkey2 I thought the Perl5 and C implementations died, and only Pugs is still going?
moritz perlmonkey2: no, not dead ;) 17:23
PerlJam perlmonkey2: not quite.
moritz and afaict p6 was never supposed to be written entirely in C
or was it?
PerlJam perl6 doesn't care what it's written in. :)
moritz: in as much as parrot is written in C, perl6 will be "written in C" :-) 17:24
[particle] the pugs repository contains multiple perl 6 implementations
perlmonkey2 finished implementations?
PerlJam perlmonkey2: how can an implementation be finished when the spec isn't finished? 17:25
perlmonkey2 That is a good question. Do you know the answer?
PerlJam perlmonkey2: all of the implementations right now are about trying out the ideas that perl6 wants to incorporate.
perlmonkey2: They're exploratory. Can we do this? etc. 17:26
perlmonkey2 Which is why I'm very excited about Pugs.
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[particle] there are no finished implementations 17:32
moritz which is very sad ;)
[particle] if there were, we'd all be hanging out on #christmas 17:33
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moritz [particle]: no, I'd still be writing docs ;) 17:33
perlmonkey2 Heh, every time I try to find out the reasoning for both Pugs and Parrot, I seem to cause some friction. My best guess so far is that Pugs is to get Perl6 running Perl6 ASAP, and Parrot is the magical virtual machine closely aligned with the Perl6 project.
moritz I'm currently writing a German website on p6, and inted to translate a few docs to German once they are a bit more settled 17:34
[particle] perlmonkey2: parrot is a bottom-up implementation
pugs is top-down
pugs is: let's implement the parser, so we can write perl6 now. we'll compile it to whatever backend we can get to work reasonably well. 17:35
parrot is: let's design a virtual machine for dynamic languages, with perl 6 spec in mind
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moritz originally pugs was "let's learn haskell" ;-) 17:36
[particle] there's already some idea, design, code, and test sharing between the two projects
there's not friction between the pugs and parrot implementors 17:37
but sometimes i wish there was some more communication
moritz [particle]: just invite them all, provide much beer, and they _will_ communicate ;)
perlmonkey2 I just want to be able to use my favorite language AND use threading :p 17:38
moritz perlmonkey2: and what is your favorite lang? p5 already implements threading ;) 17:39
DarkWolf84 p6 is more nice
:)
perlmonkey2 I wasted 2 months on a threaded project in P5. They are fragile fragile, FRAGILE things. At least when mixed with shared memory.
DarkWolf84 more nise than p5
diotalevi . o O ( Maybe he wants *sane* threading too )
perlmonkey2 I switched to POE and cried about the wasted processors. 17:40
[particle] perlmonkey2: the final threads spec has not yet been written for parrot
moritz diotalevi: nobody wants sanity when you can have magic instead ;)
diotalevi perlmonkey2: I thought we warned you off about threading in p5.
perlmonkey2 you did
17:40 rindolf joined
perlmonkey2 after I had spent two months on the project. 17:40
rindolf Hi perlmonkey2
perlmonkey2: why the 2? 17:41
Hi all.
avar just use forks:)
rindolf I wish #parrot was hosted here.
DarkWolf84 :)
perlmonkey2 rindolf, this isn't the perlmonkey you probably know.
rindolf perlmonkey2: oh.
perlmonkey2 I'm from PM where perlmonkey one hasn't been active for a long time.
moritz rindolf: what refrains you from connecting to irc.perl.orgƟ
rindolf moritz: nothing.
moritz s/Ɵ/?/ (damn german keyboard)
diotalevi recently found out that BerkeleyDB has a really nice feature for sharing memory. A db's environment gets shared with other processes pretty much automagically. 17:42
rindolf moritz: it's just that Freenode is friendlier.
audreyt++ # Liking Freenode.
perlmonkey2 diotalive: tell us more....
s/diotalive/diotalevi/
diotalevi: do they share the on disk object, and use their own seperate caches? And there are no transactional issues? 17:43
diotalevi perlmonkey2: like anything, dbs are commonly used for shared state between processes or threads or whatever. All the caching and other stuff can exist as files on disk that are all mmap'd into your N processes/threads. 17:44
And bdb does transactions n' logging n stuff.
avar why not host it on irc.perl.org?
(#perl6/#parrot)
not that it matters in the least to anyone with a decent client 17:45
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diotalevi thought it unfortunate that #perl6 wasn't on irc.perl.org when he didn'th ave a decent client. 17:45
moritz avar: just personal preference I guess
perlmonkey2 diotalevi: I tried using MySQL, but it was too slow, I needed read,process,write in < 00:00.01 17:46
diotalevi *shrug* 17:47
perlmonkey2 I now have the app written in Java, using Java threads.....really fast, and no problems with threads/shared memory. But we hateseseseses Java and the silly Object type. 17:48
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fglock [particle]: re communication: ideas? moritz has a good point (beer) 17:53
[particle] yes, the beer-to-beer transport model is quite efficient 17:54
fglock there is a hmm - 10% - chance of /me going to YAPC::Europe 17:56
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[particle] no chance of that for me this year :( 17:56
i'm saving my vacation for a trek in nepal
perlmonkey2 nepal++
qmole does look like a good yapc this one
[particle] fglock: however, allison, chromatic, leo and others may be there 17:57
fglock but before that, YAPC::SA starts in 10 days :)
[particle] sao paulo?
fglock Porto Alegre
[particle] ah. 17:58
let me know when it's in cuzco, peru. i'll go back there in a heartbeat :)
fglock fisl.softwarelivre.org/8.0/papers/pub/
lambdabot Title: fisl8-2007 - Fōæ½xF3rum Internacional Software Livre
fglock yeah, I've been in Cuzco - very nice :) 17:59
the plan for YAPC::SA is to work in p6-in-p6; probably in the regex engine
Lorn fglock: hey :) 18:00
fglock: is YAPC::Brasil no? YAPC::SA is on Salvador :)
[particle] that's a good plan
fglock Lorn: I'm lost, too many conferences 18:01
Lorn fglock: hehe, did you see my msg? we need ideas :P
fglock Lorn: re plan - we could refactor kp6 regex compiler, to be able to parse the "STD" grammar 18:02
Lorn fglock: ok, i can study STD?
fglock Lorn: svn.pugscode.org/pugs/src/perl6/Per...0.0-STD.pm 18:03
Lorn fglock: or better, why i need to study in perl6 code?
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eden_c fglock: ping 18:03
Lorn \o/ 18:04
:P
fglock Lorn: this is supposed to help - it needs more work - svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPe...cs/FAQ.pod
eden_c: pong 18:05
Lorn fglock: ok, tks
fglock Lorn: just checked: YAPC::SA is in Porto Alegre, YAPC::Brasil is in Salvador, YAPC::Sao_Paulo is in... Sao Paulo 18:06
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Lorn fglock: really? i confuse too :) 18:07
fglock: well, we need to "ping" argentina, rigth?
vitor
fglock sure 18:08
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moritz fglock: does kp6 use perl5 as a backend by default? 18:12
fglock moritz: there is no default, actually - it depends on what "plugins" you use 18:13
moritz fglock: and which are available, and working?
fglock moritz: looking 18:14
moritz: you can compile p6-to-miniperl6, and then miniperl6-to-perl5 (or parrot, but that's incomplete) 18:15
moritz fglock: ok, thanks 18:16
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fglock or p6-to-perl5, in several different implementations; there are some experiments of perl6-to-C too 18:16
eden_c fglock: what's the address of the proxy you use again? I forgot to write it down the first time you told me :/ 18:17
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fglock eden_c: proxy? 18:18
Lorn fglock: url to access #perl6 via web
fglock feather.perl6.nl - but you need to register with Juerd first (send him an email with your full name, address) 18:19
eden_c fglock: what's his email? 18:20
fglock: I'm using a horrible proxy that forces me to reconect every hour :/
DarkWolf84 i'm not using proxy
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eden_c I'm behind a firewall thats blocking IRC 18:21
fglock: what's Juerd's address 18:22
fglock [email@hidden.address]
eden_c: please read the instructions there: feather.perl6.nl 18:23
lambdabot Title: Perl6 Community Development Server
fglock moritz: kp6 is "perl6-in-perl6", to some extent. It just didn't get much attention 18:25
moritz fglock: I noticed it ;)
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Juerd fglock: Heh, address isn't needed 18:32
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fglock Juerd: ah, ok :) 18:34
Lorn fglock: only confirm, we devel in the hackthon "only" STD rigth? 18:36
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eden_c Juerd: just answered your reply 18:37
fglock Lorn: the idea is to improve a p6regex engine, in order to have STD parsed, and possibly compile 18:38
Lorn fglock: ok
fglock Lorn: don't take it too seriously - if I know myself, we will end up working on something completely different :) 18:43
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eden_c fglock: that's why it's going to be fun 18:44
Lorn fglock: ok, i understood :)
18:51 prly joined
fglock I wonder if pugs macros could possibly call a rule compiler from ext/ 18:52
Tene www.trnicely.net/misc/vista.html
lambdabot Title: Windows Vista restricts GNU GCC apps to 32 MB
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moritz Tene: nice one ;) 18:56
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DarkWolf84 it's too early for fool's day jokes 19:11
:)
19:14 prism joined 19:19 autin joined
fglock I can't get 'macro circumfix:<...>' to work 19:22
obra seen audreyt 19:26
moritz obra: try it with an '@' at the front 19:27
obra @seen autin
lambdabot autin is in #perl6. I don't know when autin last spoke.
obra Ayay nick completion 19:28
@seen audreyt
lambdabot audreyt is in #haskell-soc, #haskell and #perl6. I last heard audreyt speak 2d 1h 42m 28s ago.
Tene obra: audreyt had to take some time off to recover from some stressful life events.
obra Tene: Yep.
gaal [particle]: when are you planning to go? 19:29
[particle] gaal: to nepal? november 19:35
2-25 or something
gaal sounds hella fun :) 19:36
[particle] indeed it does :) 19:37
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manjuj [particle]: I haven't yet received the invite that was sent to me quite some time back, is this delay normal? 19:46
[particle] :(
19:46 prly_ joined
manjuj or possibly the mail id was wrong? 19:46
[particle] sent to manju@gmail... 19:47
manjuj wrong :-(
[particle] is that correct? ah.
manjuj it is [email@hidden.address]
[particle] oh, i see
manjuj good that i asked :-)
[particle] i stripped the first bit, thinking it was a transport thing
manjuj :-)
could you please send it again? 19:48
[particle] in process as we type 19:49
manjuj ok. thanks
[particle] sent
manjuj thanks
got it. thanks once again! 19:50
[particle] welcome!
and you're welcome!
fglock @tell audreyt I can implement regexes in plain pugs using macros, it seems - it needs some cool syntax, like 'macro circumfix:</ />' and some way to deal with infix:<~~> 19:51
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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pasteling "fglock" at 201.54.129.80 pasted ""userland regexes"" (19 lines, 249B) at sial.org/pbot/23901 20:15
fglock this can be abused into an actual regex implementation 20:16
moritz that's sick... and cool ;) 20:17
fglock it only needs a few pugs-todo fixes, in order to allow native regex syntax 20:22
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pasteling "fglock" at 201.54.129.80 pasted "Error with pugs and m:P5/.../ ???" (38 lines, 1.3K) at sial.org/pbot/23903 20:54
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