pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4]
Set by gaal on 18 June 2007.
japhb Or three, to include kp6 ... 00:00
ibrown looking at example. 00:02
so you need folks to run the tests, to populate these docs? 00:03
japhb info pulled from smoke runs.
ibrown or is the process just confusing me?
japhb ibrown: many cronjobs that make magic. :-)
see m19s28.vlinux.de/cgi-bin/pugs-smokeserv.pl 00:04
lambdabot Title: Pugs Smoke Reports
japhb Ignore the release lines, it's been a while since a release. Go for repo snapshot lines.
ibrown ubuntu eq linux? 00:06
japhb ubuntu isa debian isa linux, more or less 00:07
ibrown yeah. figured as much.
just wanted to make sure. i'm new to deb, migrated from slack
japhb welcome to the light side of the force 00:08
ibrown lol 00:09
yeah we all grow up.
its been slack since the early 90's tho. so its like hard to part.
all these damn pretty pictures.
thoughtpolice i'm an archlinux guy myself. although i also like gentoo and bsd. never tried just vanilla slack. 00:11
ibrown start with disk,video,keyboard. 00:12
compile what you need
let it be a rock
albeit it does suck as a desktop 00:13
but my bnc wireless card is supported by ubuntu pretty easily, so i said wth
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ibrown so they release a svn #. you check it out, do the tests, and commit the results which are stored in .pod files? 00:15
then that information is given back to the assembler interpreter guys? who take it and elaborate their project? 00:16
japhb I believe that when you 'make smoke' it uploads your test results to the smoke server, and when the pods are converted to HTML, the test sources and smoke results are incorporated 00:19
ibrown ah 00:20
so how do i get commit access to help out? 00:22
japhb ask anyone for a commitbit. You need to give us your preferred user name, and an email address
private message works best.
Hold on, lets see if I can get into the invite manager .... 00:23
(the invite manager and the server its hosted on seem to be at odds, resulting in VERY slow response times, so hold on) 00:24
s/its/it's/
ibrown i still don't exactly follow i guess what the tests are doing per say. and the like but i'm sure i'll get it after watching a min. 00:25
[particle] what the tests are doing?
there's a utility called 'smartlinks.pl' that takes as input the test files and spec files and matches smartlinks in the test files to locations in the spec files. 00:26
ibrown well. 00:27
here's a good example:
[particle] html is generated which includes the test file source inside the htmlified pod
ibrown i run grep -RL 'L<' t/* | $PAGER
which i understand, kind of,
what do i do with $PAGER
to dtermine the results.
unelss that just meant | less lol 00:28
[particle] is $PAGER set to 'less'?
ibrown or more or whatever
japhb er, I think $PAGER is supposed to mean 'less'
ibrown that's what i figured. ok that makes sense.
[particle] yes, it's an env var, like $EDITOR
ibrown tru i don't normally call it by its var my fault on that one 00:29
japhb OK, ibrown, I'm ready to invite. /msg me your username and email? 00:33
ibrown: having trouble /msg'ing? 00:38
ibrown i msg'd you 00:39
did it not go through
japhb nope, didn't arrive.
Are you signed in with nickserv?
ibrown neg
japhb required on freenode to msg ... 00:40
ibrown oh
that explains.
japhb You can also send in-channel ... our logbot hides emails.
most people just prefer not to send in-channel, of course ....
ibrown [email@hidden.address] ibrown: is fine
japhb k, hold on.
ibrown i don't care.
whatever, spam me some more!
japhb heh 00:41
offby1 launches a can of spam ibrown-ward 00:42
japhb The server is chewing on your invite
So here's the deal. 00:44
(brought from priv msg land)
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japhb The tests are just Perl 6 scripts. 00:44
They have various bits of magic in them, including these 'smart links'.
ibrown yeah little routines testing functions it looks like. 00:45
japhb Once the smart links are added once, they don't need to be updated again, unless the spec changes overmuch.
TimToady heh, heh
japhb Once added, they are automatically managed by the cronjobs.
so the spec annotation that you see is all automated.
We just need more granularity and completeness to the 'smartlinks'. 00:46
Perhaps it will help to consider them HTML <a> tags. Someone needs to put a lot of anchors in the tests. After that, the hyperlinking Just Works.
Oh, and don't listen to TimToady, he's just here to pull your leg. ;-) 00:47
TimToady I never do anything useful around here except cause more trouble. 00:48
japhb 'xactly
ibrown i feel yeah
i'm doing a lot of analysis lately and swear by perl
but this cat i'm workign with is pressuring me hardcore to give it up 00:49
and swtich to something else, i'm like ugh. no. but the perl6 language i'm liking.
offby1 I swear at perl
ibrown aye me too
offby1 my cat doesn't care which language I use
ibrown collegue?
japhb My cat needs her nails clipped. I think she just put a hole in my pants leg
ibrown i can def do the smartlinks 00:51
japhb <burns>Excellent...</burns>
ibrown i just hope there's a bit more daunting tasks up the road. =P
TimToady you could write me a regex engine in Haskell tonight if you like. :) 00:52
ibrown shiit. why didn't you just ask.
i believe there's one under the sofa. brb 00:53
offby1 mine's outside calling for his buddies 00:54
japhb dinner & 00:57
offby1 renice -20 %1 00:58
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offby1 ha! now let's watch him eat really fast 00:58
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offby1 gaah. I wish #parrot were on this server 01:25
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japhb Mmmm, good dinner. And I did, in fact, eat really fast, so it must have worked. I was done well before everyone else was half done. 01:37
offby1 well, you burned up all my CPU. I tried to SIGHUP you but you blocked it
japhb heh 01:38
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japhb yells at perl5: "What do you mean, 'Flash Gordon approaching'?!?" 01:44
japhb fervently hopes that Perl 6 will make it stunningly easy to redirect open filehandles for child processes *without* involving the shell or requiring use of some module to do what should be easy. 01:48
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offby1 scsh is great at that sorta thing 02:00
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ibrown ok so not to beat a dead horse, but checkout source, configure,make,make test, make smoke, add smartlinks, checkout 02:16
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ibrown timtoady: so got a quick question if you got a spare second. 02:28
TimToady I do 02:29
ibrown so i run grep in 01-sanity and it opens up: 02-counter.t which to me appears to be an increment test. : then i open up the document for 02 on that URL you submitted, and find in the document where it references increment. then I create a link to the test result and that's essentially what's being committed 02:30
i guess i'm just confused at what document i reference for the link. i understand the link syntax now etc. 02:31
TimToady well, the link is from the .t back into the various synopses 02:32
ibrown so like feather.perl6.nl/syn/S02.html that page 02:33
lambdabot Title: S02
ibrown true but where are they at in the src tree? docs? 02:34
TimToady it's probably working with the pod versions. they're in the source tree but have different names there 02:35
japhb ibrown: see how its done in e.g. pugs/t/operators/eq.t
TimToady docs/Perl6/Spec has the pod files, but like Operators is really S03 02:36
japhb At the top of each spec doc is the correct number, they are numbered S<nn>
ibrown ok so docs/Perl6/Spec
TimToady you can also check out the most official ones under the S names from svn.perl.org
ibrown gotcha
been searching for that location
TimToady the official synopses live at svn.perl.org/perl6/doc/trunk/design 02:37
japhb As with that e.g. test file above, make sure you use S#/Section/string_to_match.
ibrown but there's not pods for everything yet? 02:39
TimToady semi-official and unofficial still live in docs/Perl6/Spec
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ibrown can i check those docs out at that svn url? 02:39
TimToady yes 02:40
ibrown awesome.
TimToady and then grep is your friend 02:41
ibrown sorry for the annoying questions, i'm just starting to branch out into the community from my cave.
rgr
i'm checking out the docs. shouldn't be that big of a deal.
TimToady no problem; we're down with branching out 02:42
ibrown i just don't wanna switch to ruby.
TimToady boku mou... 02:43
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ibrown ? 02:43
TimToady "me too" in Japanese...
ibrown rgr
if you want help with things on the regex engine let me know and i'll find some docs on the language you were speaking of earlier. 02:44
i'm not terrible with the regexes.
TimToady it was sort of a joke
if you haven't programmed in Haskell yet, it would be a long learning curve...
Haskell is even differenter than Ruby 02:45
ibrown that's pseudo amusing. 02:46
uhm. 02:50
yeah that's a curve buddy
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japhb Hmmm, am I correct in reading the Parrot release announcement that Parrot is released *only* with Artistic License 2.0, and *not* a disjunction of AL 2 | GPL n? 03:02
Eidolos in my (admittedly crusty) parrot checkout it has both AL and GPL 03:09
PerlJam japhb: hmm. that's a good question. 03:10
Eidolos: there was a release today. 03:11
Eidolos yeah
it's a lot of work to change the license on an open source multimultideveloper project though 03:12
see angband :)
"Updated Parrot distribution to Artistic License 2.0, from dual Artistic 1/GPL license." 03:14
hmmm
PerlJam asks #parrot and the mailing lists 03:19
Eidolos wow
it looks like they did drop the GPL
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Eidolos LICENSES/ became LICENSE which now contains just the AL2 03:20
PerlJam Ah ... groups.google.com/group/perl.perl6....fc8ba6d29b 03:21
lambdabot Title: [TODO] replace dual Artistic/GPL license with Artistic 2.0 only - perl.perl6.int ..., tinyurl.com/2go2ge
PerlJam thank you lambdabot! 03:22
offby1 <3 automatic tiny-url-ification
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japhb Ah, that's cool 03:24
Someone have a link to LICENSE? My parrot checkout is WAY out of date, and I don't feel like waiting for pull ...
PerlJam foundation.perl.org/legal/licenses/...ic-2_0.txt 03:25
japhb Thanks, PerlJam
PerlJam See section 4 is the part that's relevant to why they aren't dual licensing anymore I believe.
4.c.ii specifically
japhb reading it now 03:26
Eidolos perl6 is dual-licensed under AL2 and GPL1+
or was at rfc-response time 03:27
only 7 years out of date, not such a good source, I think I'll just go to bed then :) 03:28
TimToady AL2 is officially "GPL compatible" so doesn't need to be dual licensed
Eidolos ahh 03:29
japhb TimToady: Is there a list of what licenses match 4.c.ii? 03:34
TimToady dunno, you'd have to ask Allison probably 03:37
I try to stay away from licenses these days. :)
beppu i can has public domain? 03:39
TimToady I don't stay that far away from licenses... 03:40
PerlJam TimToady: heh
dduncan indeed 03:47
AL2 is considered a free non-copyleft license, and so is GPL-any compatible
so I agree this change makes sense
compatible without special cases too, so a AL2 work can on its own be relicensed GPL 03:48
on that note, the general Pugs license could probably stand to see a similar change 03:49
the Pugs readme currently says dual AL2/GPL, could just be AL2
though on that note it should be AL2, not some pre-release AL 03:50
assuming that AL2 is finalized already and legal to use
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dduncan that is, the Pugs README still says "2.0beta5" and that seems out of date, should just say 2.0 if that is final 03:51
PerlJam "legal to use"?
beppu maybe "production ready" would make more sense to our programming-warped minds. 03:52
has AL2 gone through QA and been thoroughly debugged? ;-) 03:53
PerlJam beppu: indeed
dduncan I would think so, if Parrot and that Oreilly book are now officially released with it 03:57
so is there any reason for the Pugs repo and docs to now not just reference the final AL2?
for that matter, would anyone complain if I made that change, or should we wait for audreyt to do it? 03:58
PerlJam dduncan: I wouldn't complain. In fact, I was going to suggest someone just do it earlier (being to lazy myself :) 04:00
s:2nd/to/too/
dduncan right then ... so I'll get started on that now ...
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dduncan so I've replaced the license file itself, and updated references in README and ChangeLog 04:28
I'm also assuming that docs/01Overview.html isn't a frozen point-in-time doc, so that will be updated too 04:30
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dduncan committing ... 04:42
done 04:43
svnbot6 r16694 | Darren_Duncan++ | the Pugs main license is now simply Artistic 2.0 (final) rather than Artistic 2.0b5 disjoint GPL
dduncan in case there are any concerns about having the right version, the new license text is from www.perlfoundation.org/page/perlfou...ic-2_0.txt
lambdabot tinyurl.com/28rwar
dduncan which afaik is the official source
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ibrown so after you add a smartlink, and run the smartlink --check *.t it spits out a html file correct? 05:31
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_Azure_ hello 05:42
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ibrown i don't get why i created a link in S02, but when smartlinks ran the output was named S26.html 05:53
diff page.
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_Azure_ How to contribute 06:02
I'm the first time use irc
diakopter hi _Azure_ 06:03
how would you like to contribute
_Azure_ I'm come from perlchina
diakopter do you have a commit bit for pugs?
_Azure_ no 06:04
diakopter have you registered your freenode nickname with NickServ?
_Azure_ how to do that
diakopter (so you can send a /msg to myself with your email address and preferred username)
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diakopter _Azure_: freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 06:05
lambdabot Title: freenode: frequently-asked questions
diakopter _Azure_: /msg nickserv register <your-password> 06:07
_Azure_ I see 06:08
have a try
diakopter or, you can just say your email address and username here..
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diakopter Azure: did you find a nickname that hadn't previously been registered? 06:16
Azure no
diakopter well then, good luck. try _|Azure|_ ? 06:17
Tene Heh.
06:18 diakopter is now known as _|Azure|_, _|Azure|_ is now known as diakopter
Azure when I input /msg nickserv register second times it show azure already registered 06:19
success?
diakopter try sending a msg to me 06:20
/msg diakopter test
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diakopter probably it is registered by someone else. you'll need to change your nickname to something else and then try registering again 06:21
I just tried _|Azure|_ - it's not taken. ;)
/nick _|Azure|_ 06:22
06:22 Azure joined 06:23 Azure is now known as azure, azure is now known as Azure
Azure why I login with no password 06:23
diakopter you're not yet logged in. those nicknames are not registered to you, it appears. 06:24
Azure how to login 06:25
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|Azure| ping 06:30
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|Azure| azure1st is me how to kill it 07:11
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|Azure| I want register it 07:12
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azure1st "you have already identified" I've register success? 07:18
ping
Tene Hi!
By the way, everyone, if you have trouble with unregistered people not being able to message you, /msg nickserv set unfiltered on 07:20
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|Azure| ? 07:21
Tene Hi!
diakopter Tene: thanks
Tene is experiencing failure loading commitbit 07:22
diakopter has commitbit loaded
|Azure| why azure1st not me 07:23
Tene I've never had any problems with freenode spammers, so I've had my nicks et unfiltered almost since the filtering was first put in place.
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acprp hi 07:37
Tene Hi! 07:38
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azure1st Hi I already registered. How to contribute 07:50
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Tene diakopter: still around? 07:53
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svnbot6 r16695 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/Muldis-DB/ : updated Operators.pm, fixed bugs in AST.pm and PhysType.pm 08:20
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svnbot6 r16696 | tene++ | Minor change in tutorial. 08:44
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Tene yay, git-svn works! 08:47
Aankhen`` Wassat?
Tene use svn repositories through git. 08:53
Aankhen`` Ah. 08:56
I wonder how many different SCM systems are actually used to interface with the Pugs repo.
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fglock TimToady: re "write me a regex engine in Haskell tonight" - svn.pugscode.org/pugs/perl5/Pugs-Co.../Parsec.pm might be a good starting point for a quick implementation 14:59
lambdabot tinyurl.com/24mutj
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agentzh Aankhen``: no, i'm no longer seeing the strange onload behaviour in the smartlinked pages. you've fixed it? hehe 16:04
lambdabot agentzh: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
agentzh @messages 16:05
lambdabot moritz said 2d 3h 1m 31s ago: I converted your chinese translation of S01 to HTML using Pod::Tree::HTML, and the output is horribly garbeled <moritz.faui2k3.org/pugs/docs/zh-cn/syn/S01.pod.
html> - do you know any pod2html converter that can handle your pod?
agentzh moritz: i've been using Pod::Simple::HTML here: perlcabal.org/syn/zh-cn/S01
lambdabot Title: S01
agentzh moritz: it looks fine to me :)
the Chinese version of S01 is in UTF-8. 16:06
sunnavy agentzh: will you translate all of syns?
agentzh sunnavy: well, not really 16:07
but i do love to help ;) 16:08
.oO( translating is a daunting task )
afaik, fayland has translated most of the synopses to Chinese in his personal repos: www.fayland.org/Perl6/Synopsis/zh_cn/ 16:09
lambdabot Title: Index of /Perl6/Synopsis/zh_cn
agentzh it's a bit old though
he did the translation in early days of pugs.
sunnavy I think it's a bit hard to translate 16:10
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agentzh pretty hard 16:11
i've finished a Chinese transcript for S26
in my notebook
haven't entered them into my machine...
but...translating is a good way to study the synopses... 16:12
moritz agentzh: thanks, I'll have a look at it
sunnavy especially some technical terms, it's hard to find corresponding chinese words.
agentzh audreyt used to learn by translation...
moritz: okay :)
sunnavy: indeed!
i've been creating terms along the way 16:13
The slides for my talk "Contribute to Pugs" at YAPC::Beijing 2007 is now on feather: 16:14
sunnavy I read syns last year but not finished, and I am going read through them soon.
agentzh perlcabal.org/agent/slides/contr_pu...r_pugs.xul
sunnavy: great
sunnavy: maybe you can submit a lot of patches to p6l while reading 16:15
that's what i did.
sunnavy what's p6l?
moritz perl6-language
the mailing list
agentzh mailing list
sunnavy well, wish I will :-) 16:16
moritz [email@hidden.address]
agentzh see dev.perl.org/perl6/lists/ for other info
lambdabot Title: Mailing Lists - perl6
sunnavy your presentation on YAPC::Beijing 2007 is great, I love that.
agentzh sunnavy: thanks!
sunnavy: do you have a commit bit to pugs?
sunnavy no 16:17
moritz want one?
sunnavy sure :-)
agentzh wow, moritz is faster than me ;)
moritz sunnavy: /msg agentzh your email address, and he'll invite you 16:18
sunnavy agentzh: do you like BBS?
moritz: thanks
moritz I would if my proxy timeout wasn't that tight :(
agentzh sunnavy: not very 16:19
sending out commit bits is no longer a trivial task these days... 16:21
moritz yay, commitbit works for me, so you can send me your email as well (if you want two accesses ;-)
agentzh moritz: commit bit sent? 16:22
it's very slow here...
sunnavy ok, I'll send my email to moritz. 16:23
moritz sunnavy: ok, tell me if the mail arrived. If it did not arrive in 15min or something I'll retry 16:24
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sunnavy moritz: I got it :-) 16:27
thanks 16:28
agentzh sunnavy: add your name to AUTHORS to test the commitbit
sunnavy ok
agentzh and...welcome aboard!
sunnavy I'm glad to help. I love Perl. 16:29
agentzh yay
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agentzh wow, 162 people in the room... 16:33
more than before...it used to be 148 or so.
moritz agentzh: more people reading our bullshit? *g* 16:34
agentzh lol
moritz and I have about a hundret hits per day on the web irc logs 16:36
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agentzh that's cool 16:36
moritz: when will full-text search land to your irclog? 16:37
moritz agentzh: good question... next question... ;)
agentzh will the search results be properly paged?
moritz which of those two features would you like to have implemented first? *g* 16:38
agentzh dodges.
moritz I think the paging is easier to implement for a start 16:39
agentzh that might be 16:40
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agentzh end of day for me & 16:41
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svnbot6 r16698 | sunnavy++ | add sunnavy to AUTHORS 16:47
sunnavy seems commit bit worked :-) 16:48
moritz yay
sunnavy++
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sunnavy thanks, moritz 16:48
or should I say moritz++ ? 16:49
moritz whatever you want ;)
sunnavy moritz++
I'll dive into pugs and do something soon, wish the `something' is not bad ;-) 16:51
moritz sunnavy: are you more a perl or more a haskell coder? 16:53
sunnavy moritz: perl 16:54
I know a bit about haskell but I don't think that's enough to hack pugs :-) 16:55
TimToady even perl programmers are welcome here. :)
moritz sunnavy: same for me.. maybe you/we could help fglock with kp6... 16:56
or helping the parrot folks to reorganize/verify/update the test suite
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[particle] last night at seattle.pm somebody mentioned that he started coding perl so he didn't have to write large c programs anymore. 16:57
sunnavy TimToady: so much honour to you! I love your language very much. 16:58
[particle] i recalled that i started for the same reason.
then i realised that i'm now writing a large c program (parrot)
pmichaud me also
[particle] ...so i can program in perl!
pmichaud (perl to avoid writing large C programs :-)
sunnavy moritz: I'll make a dicision soon, but not now :-) 16:59
moritz sunnavy: ok
... what was perl written in again? *g* 17:00
Jmax MS VB?
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TimToady It's all about being Lazy rather than lazy. 17:07
People who are Lazy work very hard at it. 17:08
shachaf TimToady: Haskell is very Lazy. :-) 17:10
[particle] you mean i have to use the shift key? i'll stick with lazy :P
btw i won't be doing much string concatenation in perl 6. ~ is hard to reach. 17:11
Tene [particle]: just remap it to your 'a' key 17:14
TimToady ++ is twice as hard as ~ 17:15
spinclad for me it's RAlt+Shift+~, which is a bit of a stretch for one hand
TimToady (well, not really...)
in any case, I don't mind discourage people a bit from using ~
*discouraging
usually it's much more readable to use interpolation 17:16
[particle] yeah, even though interpolation requires shift to get a quoting op, my muscle memory takes care of that, and i only need two quotes when i may need multiple tildes 17:17
spinclad ?eval ~ reverse 4!
17:17 evalbot_r16681 is now known as evalbot_r16698
evalbot_r16698 Error: ā¤Unexpected "!"ā¤expecting "_", fraction, exponent, term postfix, operator, ":" or "," 17:17
TimToady O(2) often beats O(n) for large values of n 17:18
it's tempting to make postfix:<!> a builtin
fglock I need help with a piece of perl 5 code - svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPe...rl5/Pad.pm
lambdabot tinyurl.com/ysae7e
TimToady I don't know anything about Perl 5
fglock I guess the equivalent Perl 6 code will have the same problem 17:19
which is how to create closures incrementally
spinclad ?eval sub postfix:<!> { [*] ^ $^n }; ~ reverse 4!
evalbot_r16698 Error: ā¤Unexpected "!"ā¤expecting "_", fraction, exponent, term postfix, operator, ":" or ","
fglock as in the compiler environment with BEGIN blocks and declarations
I've got working code, but it could look better 17:20
spinclad oop 17:21
?eval sub postfix:<!> { [*] ^ $^n }; reverse ~ 4!
evalbot_r16698 Error: ā¤Unexpected "!"ā¤expecting "_", fraction, exponent, term postfix, operator, ":" or ","
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TimToady sorry, a bit distracted today; one of our kitties is in the final stage of kidney failure and will probably not last till tomorrow... :( 17:29
17:29 justatheory joined
fglock TimToady: sorry about that 17:35
TimToady: I think I found a way to fix the technical problems I had with my p6regex-to-p5regex compiler (backtracking with large match objects was expensive)
TimToady cool! 17:36
spinclad says metta for kitty 17:37
TimToady spinclad: you want:
?eval sub postfix:<!> ($n) { [*] 1..$n }; reverse ~ 4!
evalbot_r16698 "42"
TimToady placeholders don't work there yet 17:38
and [*] ^$n is always 0
Tene Heh.
spinclad ah. (right: 1 +>> ^ $^n or so.) here i was enjoying the confusing flow of punctuation... 17:40
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TimToady according to current spec ^$n + 1 should do that too 17:42
but we don't really have Range objects yet
[particle] $deer..$antelope 17:43
17:44 justatheory joined
spinclad $home ~~ ^$^n 17:45
17:45 justatheory joined
TimToady shouldn't that be $home x 2 17:46
spinclad and in o/~ brackets o/~ 17:47
o/~ ($Home x 2, $deer, $antelope) ~~ ^$^n o/~ 17:49
loses a bit in this recension, maybe 17:50
TimToady that's a discouraging word
spinclad :( 17:51
TimToady fortunately it's seldom heard
[particle] $skies !~~ 'cloudy all day'
17:52 ruoso joined, vel joined
spinclad for @day -> $_ { !cloudy(@skies) } 17:53
lidden ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($n) { [*] 1..$n }; 0! 17:55
evalbot_r16698 1
lidden ?eval sub postfix:<!> ($n) { [*] 1..$n }; -1! 17:56
evalbot_r16698 1
spinclad lost a pole 17:57
?eval sub postfix:<!> ($n) { [*] 1..$n }; 0.5!
evalbot_r16698 1/1
spinclad damnit. i wanted 1/sqrt(pi) or whatever it is
diakopter Tene: returning your msg 17:58
TimToady -1! should have come out -1 because ! should have defaulted to ++ precedence
which is tighter than -
Tene diakopter: you were mentioning having commitbit open right before. The person asking for commit access seemed to finally have his client situation sorted out.
[particle] how would you assert than $n is a positive integer? 18:00
Tene 'where'
[particle] i mean, what's the perl 6 idiom for that, in a subroutine definition
Tene I believe
subset
[particle] foo (Int $n where $n >= 1)? 18:01
Tene I believe so. Might want to check synopses. Don't know if pugs implements it yet. 18:03
[particle] yeah, that's what i'd do if i weren't lazy :) 18:04
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fglock wonders how to split big questions into smaller answerable things 18:17
moritz fglock: use split() ;-) 18:18
fglock may I try to explain the problem to you? this would help me to write a readable question 18:21
moritz fglock: of course 18:22
though I'll probably not able to answer it ;)
fglock when the compiler finds this: { my $x; 18:23
it needs to construct a runnable representation 18:24
one way to do it is: $env = eval ' sub { $x } '
I mean: $env = eval ' sub { my $x } ' 18:25
ok?
moritz I don't quite understand why that works 18:26
$env is closure after that, right?
does this do scoping right?
fglock yes - $env is a representation of the current state of the program under compilation 18:27
moritz but doesn't that overwrite existing variables in that (dynamic) scope?
or are they stored in another $env? 18:28
fglock no, because the variables only exist inside the closure
moritz but other could, that were previously stored in $env 18:29
fglock things outside $env are not affected, so the compiler and the program don't mix (much)
moritz ok
fglock yes, I'll get there
moritz go ahead, then
fglock the compiler proceeds, and it sees the next statement: { my $x; BEGIN { $x = 1 } 18:30
now you have to tell $env to change the value in $x 18:31
you can't to this easily, so I wrote a module that works around it
moritz is it really a good idea to store local variables in closures? 18:32
as opposed to, say hashes?
fglock that's the point - I don't really know; I'd like to discuss that 18:33
one advantage of closures is that you can execute real code inside them
hashes would require some emulation
moritz and they are fast, I presume
fglock otoh, closures require an eval(), which can be expensive 18:34
moritz but you could store ASTs in the hashes, and execute / emit them when you need the value
was that the question you wanted to ask initially? 18:35
fglock yes - I have a working implementation, but I'd like to sanity check the architecture 18:36
moritz so how much magic (or braindamage) do you need to modify the closures? 18:38
fglock re AST - I keep both the AST and $env, because I need them for different things
it's easier to explain if you look at the code 18:39
moritz in v6-KindaPerl6 ?
fglock svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPe...rl5/Pad.pm 18:40
lambdabot tinyurl.com/ysae7e
moritz looking... 18:41
so this is specific to the Perl5 backend, right?
fglock it's a prototype, I'll rewrite it in MiniPerl6 18:42
moritz so you are limiting possible backends to languages that have closures? 18:43
fglock yes, but languages that don't have closures would have to emulate anyway; this is solved at the MiniPerl6 level 18:44
moritz ok
fglock you create a Pad with something like: my $env1 = Pad->new( outer => undef, lexicals => [ ::Var(...) ] );
where ::Var is the AST for a variable
moritz ok 18:45
the could is very readable
s/could/code/
fglock outer is a possible outer pad
moritz or undef if none
fglock you add more lexicals with: $env1.add_lexicals( [ ::Pad(...) ] ) 18:46
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fglock the hack is that when the closure is defined, it returns a sub that does an eval() 18:48
moritz which sounds scary
fglock this way you can execute things in the closure environment
moritz but that again is very perl5 specific, isn't it?
fglock it works under Perl 6 too 18:49
which is what I need, for 6-in-6
moritz ok ;)
fglock correction - you add more lexicals with: $env1.add_lexicals( [ ::Var(...) ] ) 18:50
moritz that makes more sense, yes 18:51
spinclad (having read Pad.pm -- yes, it's good clear code) 18:53
fglock this way, you have access to the whole pad stack, with introspection; and you can incrementally execute code inside that environment
moritz sounds clever, but somwhat... still scary ;) 18:54
spinclad it makes sense to me you have to build an 'evaluator' closure
moritz *shudder* somebody on #debconf just posted and `uptime` output - with a load > 3000 ;) 18:55
on one of the debian webservers 18:56
spinclad i could imagine that on a Thinking Machine, with its N thousand processors...
fglock moritz: what does it mean? 18:57
rindolf Hi moritz
moritz fglock: maybe you could/should ask the same question on p6c, perhaps partly using copy&paste from the irclogs...
fglock: if you break down that "compiler review" question into smaller questions that can be answered in half an hour each, you'll get more feedback
load = number of processess waiting for CPU and/or IO resources 18:58
fglock ok - I'll try this question first
then I'll come back here with the other ones :)
moritz of course ;) 18:59
spinclad ... and i see you're taking advantage of Perl 5's eval($expr) in a package context ... 19:00
moritz fglock: and be sure to add the direct link to Pad.pm ;) 19:01
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fglock spinclad: yes, it needs to execute in the appropriate run-time package - the current package is the compiler's one 19:02
s/package/namespace/
what's the appropriate mailing list? perl6-language is generic, and perl6-compiler is for Parrot things, right? 19:05
spinclad ... i look for a way to build a Perl 5 structure for the pad, have a fixed algorithm to lookup($var) in it, and build up translated expressions with $var ==> lookup($var) 19:06
moritz no, parrot folks have their own mailing list
pmichaud definitely not perl6-language
perl6-compiler would seem most appropriate. It's not necessarily Parrot specific
fglock pmichaud: ok 19:07
moritz fglock: I think p6c is fine
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fglock spinclad: thanks :) 19:08
pmichaud: I wonder if you had a similar problem in parrot 19:09
pmichaud I haven't been following the discussion that closely
chances are that I haven't encountered the problem in parrot, though
fglock in short, how do you handle the compiling environment - where do you store lexical things that were just compiled 19:10
such that BEGIN block can see it 19:11
blocks
pmichaud oh. I haven't dealt with that yet
fglock cool - we could try to find that out together :) 19:12
pmichaud indeed!
fglock I have a working fix, but it looks too complicated 19:13
spinclad whatever structure (AST) you translate code into, you need to be able to .eval it and capture its effects in the compiler, as well as defer that to runtime
pmichaud spinclad: exactly. That makes it a bit tricky :-) 19:14
fglock spinclad: yes
pmichaud: this covers 2/3 of my question in the list :)
the other 1/3 is easier 19:15
pmichaud: if you have some time, I'd love to guide you through kp6 19:16
pmichaud fglock: I'll be happy for a tour, but it may be Friday before I can easily get to that 19:17
fglock sure
pmichaud fglock: if not Friday or Sat, it may need to wait until Tuesday 19:18
I'm trying to get all of my stuff ready for YAPC::NA
fglock np - I need kp6 for YAPC::EU :P
moritz I'll to to be there (EU) 19:19
fglock moritz: cool
moritz s:1st/to/try/
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fglock pmichaud: I'm looking for a more solid architecture, which would allow kp6 to evolve to full-p6 19:20
pmichaud fglock: sure thing -- walking through kp6 would probably help both of us in that respect 19:23
fglock pmichaud: I found a way to plug PGE into the architecture, such that kp6-parrot can use it (and I need to update the plan) 19:25
pmichaud oh, excellent!
I just added (but haven't committed) some features to PGE to let it handle things like {*} at runtime :-)
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fglock can you plug a language parser for the thing inside {...} ? 19:26
PCR does this with subclassing
pmichaud yes
fglock nice 19:27
pmichaud you can pass another object that has methods to be called when the {*} is encountered
fglock interesting - how about multiple {*} occurrences? 19:30
pmichaud it understands the "#= key" comments as well
and passes the key to the method
fglock :)
pmichaud so then the method can switch off of the key
fglock looks useful - it will end up being specced :) 19:32
svnbot6 r16699 | moritz++ | [irclog] fixed adding of linebreaks to long URLs to prevent horizontal 19:36
r16699 | moritz++ | scrolling
fglock pmichaud: {*} should actually be removed by a preprocessor; implementing it is a workaround, right? 19:54
pmichaud fglock: I'm thinking {*} might end up in the spec
there could be some advantages to being able to call a grammar with its actions disabled 19:55
spinclad a preprocessor could replace it with its method call, perhaps?
and an underived grammar would have those methods as stubs 19:56
pmichaud at any rate, calling {*} when no special object is passed equates to a no-op, as if it had been removed by a preprocessor
(or an empty method stub) 19:57
TimToady in theory, the only effect {*} has to have is to terminate a longest-token match
pmichaud as PGE currently has it, it would be able to do this 19:58
TimToady so a preprocessor might need to treat it as a ::
pmichaud essentially PGE is saying that it'll understand {*} even if it's not preprocessed out, and do something intelligent with it
TimToady sounds good
pmichaud and thus we can compile the grammar even if it has {*} in it, and use different "backends" for the stubs at runtime 19:59
this turned out to be easier (for now) than writing the preprocessor :-P
TimToady phone call?
pmichaud earlier I was playing with using something like {*#<key>} instead of {*} # =key 20:00
but as it stands now, PGE uses the #= key format
(phone...on my way)
20:01 justatheory joined
fglock hmm - &{ action() } 20:01
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PerlJam fglock: {*} is much simpler than &{ action() } 20:09
:-)
fglock yes, but it adds yet another type of comment 20:11
how about {*(key)}
or simply <action(key)> 20:12
this is very regexy
pmichaud isn't #<foo> a comment already?
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fglock I mean, why not introduce a new word for "action"; comments are "out of the language" 20:15
<action {...}>
<action {*}> # placeholder 20:16
PerlJam What was ... meant to be exactly?
actual code?
fglock yes
PerlJam in what language? 20:17
fglock the language is pluggable, just like normal {...}
placing the {...} inside <action> makes it possible to turn the {...} execution on/off 20:19
it's just a conditional
pmichaud this would mean that <action ...> needs special parsing, to be able to add the rule name into the call
fglock yes, or you can use <action: {...}> 20:20
PerlJam not putting actual code in the grammar also allows the exact same grammar to be used with multiple languages easily.
pmichaud regexes already allow other languages to be in the {...} via the :lang adverb 20:22
fglock you could use a method for that; language-specific inheritance will define the actual code
[particle] ho! look what i walked in on. time for a trip to scrollbackland! 20:23
fglock I was missing the old long technical discussions :) 20:24
moritz fglock: time for YAPC ;)
pmichaud not putting actual code in the grammar allows allows the grammar to be re-purposed for different purposes easily (yes, subclassing can do this also) 20:25
(however, subclassing also requires re-writing the rule)
fglock <my_action> # subclassable
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pmichaud fglock: how would you distinguish 20:25
fglock <My::action> # defined at link-time
PerlJam suddenly expects Damian to appear and start PODing the grammar (speaking of re-purposing things :)
pmichaud regex foo { foo <my_action> }
regex bar { bar <my_action> } 20:26
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fglock it's actually: regex bar { bar <bar_action> } # if it is a different action 20:27
thoughtpolice anybody have a particular news reader they like? i've been trying to find one; if it runs from the terminal then the better I suppose. :)
fglock just like a different comment
pmichaud fglock: and how do we indicate that it's okay for <bar_action> to be missing?
part of the point of {*} is that it's okay to have a null action 20:28
PerlJam pm: <> seems logical in fglock's fantasy
pmichaud fglock: and do we really want....
rule prefix_meta_infix:sym<*> { <sym> <prefix_meta_infix_action> } ?
fglock pmichaud: maybe with: method bar_action {*}
PerlJam in any case, regex foo { foo <foo_action> } regex foo_action { ... } # could cause some accidental conflict if we aren't careful.
Aankhen`` @tell agentzh I didn't fix itā€¦ I couldn't even reproduce it. :-S 20:29
lambdabot Consider it noted.
PerlJam {*} has the benefit of being ordinarily illegal (except for the specific purpose of being ignored or substituted)
[particle] fglock: pmichaud briefly considered: action bar {...} 20:30
pmichaud anyway, I'm sticking with {*} until Larry changes it :-)
20:30 offby1 left
fglock pmichaud: sure 20:30
[particle] but i like {*}, and it's what's specced anyway?
s/\?/:\)/
pmichaud actually, I don't think {*} is "specced" outside of STD.pm yet
PerlJam yeah, specced by convention
[particle] de facto
the head cheese put it in writing. 20:31
pmichaud PGE goes a step further by actually parsing it in non-preprocessed-regexes and doing something with it
20:31 riffraff joined
moritz specced the perl 5 way 20:31
pmichaud as opposed to having a pre-processor do it
riffraff hi
moritz hi riffraff
[particle] pmichaud: is it desirable to make that configurable?
pmichaud [particle]: configurable how?
PerlJam [particle]: if a preprocessor has gotten to it before PGE, there's nothing to configure :) 20:32
pmichaud you mean, such that PGE strictly honors the spec and treats {*} as a closure? Sure
[particle] well, i suppose preprocessor selection, but maybe pge won't control that
and yes, also what you said
fglock pmichaud: in any case, if you are doing it the OO way there is no need for {*} or <action>; it just works
[particle] that's what i was initially thinking of.
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dduncan Do any of you know of a web-connected perltidy utility, so one can just paste perl code into a form and have it processed by the site ... as an alternative to installing perltidy on one's own machine? 21:31
[particle] maybe a nopaste somewhere? 21:32
moritz dduncan: I could set one up, it would just take me some time
dduncan don't worry about it 21:33
and I didn't think of nopaste, since this was just for my own reading, not for sharing ... though I could pick a bogus channel
[particle] some nopastes allow you not to specify a channel at all 21:34
dduncan or it has a 'none' option ... nice
hm, the 2 pastebots I tried didn't have any filtering options ... will look for others ... 21:37
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meppl good night 21:44
21:47 Limbic_Region joined
pasteling "test" at 24.69.53.198 pasted "test" (76 lines, 1.7K) at sial.org/pbot/25693 21:48
dduncan oops
forgot 'none'
anyway, I got it to work, thanks anyone 21:49
Yaakov This is a great spot. I really like it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANfFwFqTS9o 22:16
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ibrown what's good guys? 22:18
22:18 Psyche^ joined, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
ibrown i got a question, i tried to add a smartlink, how do i check it's correct before commit? i did a svn committ but the url: dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S02.html doesn't reflect the changes. 22:18
lambdabot Title: Synopsis 2: Bits and Pieces - perl6:
Tene ibrown: that's updated daily, I believe. 22:19
moritz ibrown: see t/README
[particle] ibrown: i think there's an option on smartlinks.pl to check your links
ibrown yeah i did the commit this am, or last night i thought. just didn't know if there was a better way to verify the smartlink was in place right.
yeah there's a --check option... it outputs a file called S26.html in whatever dir i run it in tho 22:20
after it states, "3 smartlinks found 0 errors"
moritz which means it worked ;)
ibrown cool.
i was more worried about placement ;)
moritz ibrown: ah, that. Look at perlcabal.org/syn/ 22:21
that's where you can see the smartlinks
ibrown oh awesome. 22:22
i can see where it added the counter test to S02.
that test passed on my box tho, that's where the make smoke comes in?
Tene Maybe we should set it to be rebuilt on every svn commit. feather can handle the extra load, right? ;)
moritz Tene: no, it can't :(
[particle] at the current rate of commits? sure! :P
moritz ibrown: there's a daily smoke on feather.perl6.nl
ibrown: that provides the success/failure markings 22:23
perljunkie I have one application. It is split into 2 parts. A data collection suite, and data explorer. Currently split into 2 databases. generally. Would a 1 or 2 database design be standard?
moritz ibrown: and your own reports are at smoke.pugscode.org
perljunkie damn. wrong channel. sorry
ibrown well. it appears as if i get it now. 22:25
hoorah.
22:25 lambdabot joined
ibrown nifty process from what i can tell too. 22:25
moritz indeed ;) 22:26
Aankhen``++ , agentzh++
[particle] (spec-based testing)++ 22:27
ibrown what's the integers on the m19s28.vlinux.de/cgi-bin/pugs-smokeserv.pl page. after the % ok? is that test-suite information? like # passed vs. # failed etc? 22:28
lambdabot Title: Pugs Smoke Reports
moritz looking... 22:32
Limbic_Region ibrown - number of tests total, passed, etc
ibrown rgr
Limbic_Region if you click the >> link to expand the view
it will make much more sense
moritz pugs revison : spec revison fail pass todo
or something 22:33
Limbic_Region nope
after the %
not before
moritz Pugs 6.2.13 18 Oct 2006 02:09 Wed 90.03 min 100.00 % ok 17954: 17954, 0, 4638, 747, 0
[particle] oh, yeah.
moritz there the 17954 look like revison numbers to me
[particle] revision first
Limbic_Region total test case, passed cases, failed cases, todo cases, skipped cases, unexpectedly succeeded cases 22:34
[particle] then failed, total, todo, skipped, iirc
right, unexpected success, thanks lr
ibrown so from what i can tell PIR is perl6 on parrot, which is the way i've got pugs running i thought... so the last make-smoke done on a linux kernel was 10 feb 2k7. maybe you need a new smoke?
Limbic_Region oh, my eye just skipped over the rev:
heh
moritz ibrown: not quite
ibrown: PIR is just parrot assembler
ibrown: and the PIR backend of pugs is currently b0rked 22:35
[particle] right-o
ibrown oh.
Limbic_Region actually, ibrown is talking about "PIR (Perl 6 on Parrot)"
moritz ok
Limbic_Region which if I had waited for moritz to finish
and the PIR backend of pugs is currently b0rked 22:36
It wouldn't have mattered
Limbic_Region is slow on the uptake today
moritz and Perl 6 on Parrot lives in the parrot repository
in languages/perl6/
Limbic_Region ibrown - the good news is that pmichaud has a perl 6 implementation on parrot written in PGE that is now passing all the sanity tests
and very soon going to be taking on the rest of the perl 6 test suite in pugs
again, moritz is beating me to the punch 22:37
moritz ;) 22:38
Limbic_Region and even better news is that pmichaud has been gaining ground with contributors
[particle] i'm modifying Test.pm in perl6/parrot now, and pm is writing a script to download selective tests from the pugs repo
soon you'll be able to write perl 6 in perl 6, on parrot
moritz you can do that with kp6/mp6 as well 22:39
on perl6, that is
though mp6 is bootstrapped to parrot as well, iirc
[particle] no, not fully.
moritz how sad 22:40
I thought it was done at a YAPC hackaton
[particle] patrick and flavio are working together now, though.
moritz which is a great thing as well
[particle] we should soon see the same kind of convergence that gets folks hot about the iphone :) 22:41
moritz p6-on-parrot is now evolving so fast that I have trouble svn up'ping in a timely manner ;)
pmichaud moritz: thanks for your comments on p6c. Any further thoughts about how we might organize pugs-specific (and parrot-specific) tests?
[particle] pmichaud: i say impl-specific tests should not be in the official repo
moritz pmichaud: perhaps specially regression-test files
pmichaud: things that are known bugs in one implementation 22:42
[particle] since the official repo is in pugs now, perhaps we can put it in a separate dir
moritz of course all others have to pass them as well ;)
pmichaud well, we can use things like :pugs<todo> and :parrot<todo> to mark specific tests as per-implementation todo
[particle] i'm sorry, i was thinking about implementation-specific non-spec behavior
moritz pmichaud: I know, but that's beside the point...
[particle] duh.
pmichaud [particle]: yes, that's what I'm thinking about also 22:43
moritz pmichaud: the ternary test you came up with is just _weird_
pmichaud here, the test is really testing for a pugs-specific parsing bug
moritz right
[particle] *unspecced behavior
yeah.
that test should not be in the official repo
pmichaud so, I'm thinking (hoping) it can go somewhere else
moritz so it is specced, and the test is needed, but its' not primarily a ternary test
22:44 weinigLap joined
moritz maybe we should move that discussion back to p6c... 22:44
pmichaud moritz: probably we should. I'm not sure what to add at the moment (but have also been focused on other things today) 22:45
moritz before I move such tests I'd like to have a green light from TimToady or audreyt, because it's a rather large policy change
pmichaud: I'll write another mail before going to be
pmichaud oh, I've already been given a bit of a green light to refactor tests
moritz s/be/bed
pmichaud moritz: yes, I'd appreciate that very much
moritz pmichaud: ok
[X] Mail sent 22:53
pmichaud moritz++ 22:55
moritz cool, blead passes all smoke tests on my maschine ;)
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moritz pmichaud: I help wherever I can without any compiler building knowledge... so if I can help more with the test suite, be sure to let me know 22:56
ibrown so where does perl6 really need dev help? 22:58
i guess is a good question from what i read while away
moritz ibrown: what do you want to code?
ibrown: haskell, c, perl5, perl6? 22:59
ibrown well.
moritz doc?
ibrown i do perl5, php, ruby, some C, i could probably adapt to C++ my english and explanatory skills are lacking, normally i delegate doc projects lol
haskell i looked at yesterday for the first time, and first thing i thought was, how fucking cool, second thing was i agreed with toady, big learning curve from a more atypical structured language 23:00
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moritz ibrown: there are quite a lot things you can do... 23:00
ibrown i mean here's the deal. i don't want to switch from perl.
moritz ibrown: you could help fglock with his v6.pm, mp6 and kp6 compilers 23:01
ibrown so whatever i can do to ensure that A: it gets released. B: it doesn't fail on the web i'm kosher for
moritz ibrown: or you could learn perl 6, and port helpfull modules from p5 to p6...
ibrown i was hoping to get involved in some module writing, for 2 reasons, A: to do it, and B: to ensure that i understand perl6 at a much greater level than 5
well, the .pm's i know the most are dbi, and ldap/ad pms. heh. 23:02
moritz then translating modules from 5 to 6 might be a very good idea to start with
ibrown i heard a podcast that the guy that wrote the DBI module is actually writing the perl6 dbi module, is that confirmed or was he speaking out his arse?
moritz ibrown: maybe you should start with a simpler one ;)
[particle] tim bunce is working on dbi 2.0 for perl 6
moritz cool ;) 23:03
[particle] he wants a jdbc-like api
but it hasn't been designed yet, and help is welcome there
ibrown haha oh i dont' want to write DBI/LDAP off the bat, i'll start with more simple things, data::dumper, and b.s. like that, along with whatever other standardized modules need work.
any spot to see a good TODO?
moritz ibrown: Data::Dumper is not needed, you have the .perl method ;) 23:04
?eval <a b c>.perl
Limbic_Region well, actually Tim said one of the things blocking him was a Java -> Perl 6 translator
23:04 evalbot_r16698 is now known as evalbot_r16699
evalbot_r16699 "(\"a\", \"b\", \"c\")" 23:04
ibrown hrm.
Limbic_Region and phil crow took up that torch
and has put his work to date on CPAN
ibrown so do print Dumper($a) now you just ?eval <a>.perl ?
Limbic_Region it mostly just does interfaces ATM - not classes
moritz ibrown: the '?eval' part is only to start the bot... 23:05
daxim what's the recent talk on the free perl6 book?
ibrown oh my bad lol
moritz ibrown: so Dumper($foo) is $foo.perl or perl $foo
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ibrown haha that's awesome 23:05
moritz daxim: that's "Perl 6 and Parrot Essentials"...
Limbic_Region daxim - the Perl 6 and Parrot Essentials from O'Reilly has been re-licensed if that's what you mean
mortiz - stop that
:P
ibrown so finish reading perl6, and then pick a pm and get to cruxing eh?
moritz daxim: you can find the perl6 parts in the pugs repository in pugs/docs/tutorial/
daxim so much I know, what are the details?
moritz ibrown: right 23:06
daxim: www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6....27767.html
ibrown along with documenting the test scripts ;)
lambdabot Title: Perl 6 & Parrot Essentials as project documentation - nntp.perl.org, tinyurl.com/ynvlty
Limbic_Region ibrown - I wrote Config::Tiny in Perl 6 before pugs supported an object system - not hard at all
moritz daxim: and moritz.faui2k3.org/pugs/docs/tutori...w.pod.html
lambdabot Title: , tinyurl.com/2s96ys
ibrown limbig_region: suggestions for .pm's that need immediate attention?
moritz that's the first chapter as .html
perhaps HTTP.pm? 23:07
ibrown http.pm right.
moritz but you should ask Juerd about that
Limbic_Region ibrown - I don't have any suggestions but you should browse the ext/ directory in pugs as well as the examples/ directories 23:08
ibrown kk running to bodega, i'll check into some stuff til dinner time with the grrl when i get back. i'll shoot my .pm decision through the IRC channel and then throw it up on the perl-internals list? 23:12
or is that a perl-language related issue? 23:13
moritz you could use perl6-users oder perl6-compiler 23:15
or perl6-language if you have questions about perl 6
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moritz anyway, I'm gonna get some sleep 23:26
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