pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, elf: etc.) (or perl6: for all) | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by Tene on 29 July 2008.
00:12 pedrob_ left 00:13 cognominal left 00:19 eternaleye joined
spx2 wayland76: wow,are you fro real ? 00:24
00:29 xiaoyafeng_ left 00:39 ab5tract left 00:43 explorer left 00:45 ab5tract joined 00:49 Limbic_Region left 00:58 wayland_ joined 01:01 wayland76 left 01:22 ab5tract left
meppl good night 01:23
01:24 meppl left 01:33 Ontolog joined
wayland_ spx2: possibly. If you could specify what you mean by "for real", I might be able to answer the question. I'm assuming you're an American, and I'm aware that the use of "for real" in American slang may vary somewhat from what I'm used to (I live in Australia) 01:39
spx2 wayland_: I'm european actually :) ... I mean...I'm trying to be realistic and I'm looking for realistic views when I pose a question 01:43
wayland_: and I periodically pose this question here in the channel because I am interested to know when it's out,and it's no kind of journalistic interest..it's a personal interest
Ontolog is someone already working on Hash.contains? 01:53
02:01 smtms_ joined
wayland_ spx2: Well, I keep hearing reports of a Christmas deadline (for the basic language, not the libraries); assuming that's true, a number of the basic libraries should be implemented towards the end of January 02:02
02:02 justatheory left
wayland_ spx2: oh, and apologies for assumption :) 02:02
I'm using svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/language...l6/ROADMAP (last updated in August) as the basis for my optimism :) 02:04
02:05 Alias_ joined 02:13 smtms left 02:29 spx2_ joined 02:30 spx2_ left, spx2_ joined 02:41 spx2 left 02:48 alester_ joined 02:49 alc joined 03:42 bacek joined 03:54 Psyche^ joined 03:55 xinming left 03:56 hercynium joined 04:02 xinming joined 04:09 Patterner left, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 04:29 |Jedai| joined 04:45 Jedai left 04:46 Jedai joined 04:47 _Jedai_ left 05:05 agentzh left, agentzh joined 05:09 ab5tract joined 05:17 ab5tract left, Entonian joined 05:19 ab5tract joined 05:32 bacek left 05:33 araujo left 05:37 Entonian left 05:39 Ehtyar left 06:04 alester_ left
wayland_ @tell moritz_ I've been playing with a CSS2 grammar 06:07
lambdabot Consider it noted.
06:08 ab5tract left 06:20 [1]Maghnus joined 06:25 Maghnus left, [1]Maghnus is now known as Maghnus 06:29 smg left 06:30 bacek joined 06:31 Bzek joined 06:33 Maghnus left 06:34 ab5tract joined, azawawi joined
azawawi ping 06:35
crksht pong 06:41
pugs_svn r22835 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] dropped --simple DumpMatch in favor of the agile --redspans 06:46
crksht ?
azawawi hi crksht 06:47
crksht hiya
06:47 Maghnus joined
pugs_svn r22836 | lwall++ | [Cursor] {_to} is gone, {_from} now set only on bound cursors, unbound cursors 06:55
r22836 | lwall++ | now only propagate {_pos} (will help optimization of simple traversals)
azawawi TimToady: ping 06:56
TimToady tennis 06:58
er, pong
azawawi ;-)
TimToady: im going to replace DumpMatch with redspans today 06:59
TimToady: im curious to know... why the name 'redspans'? 07:00
TimToady well, it was reds for "reductions", then I added span for the from/to span calculations
07:01 zamolxes joined
TimToady it was only later I realized it might be confusing with redsix... 07:01
azawawi ok
pugs_svn r22837 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] ETOOMUCHTIME --simple => --redspans 07:02
TimToady I'm not particularly attached to that name
azawawi yeah im going to change it once im finished; STD_p6_hilite --output=html|ansi|txt -mode=simple|full 07:03
TimToady I mean redspands, not E* 07:04
azawawi is seeing breakfast looming in the distance... 07:05
azawawi breakfast &
TimToady wow, it's already tomorrow here...
azawawi 9:05am here
and it is a holiday btw
moritz_ we have the holiday tomorrow 07:06
lambdabot moritz_: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
azawawi it is basically fri+sat here in jordan
07:06 bacek left
azawawi breakfast... later & 07:06
TimToady chow 07:07
er, ciao
literal pugs: [~] <m oo se>
p6eval pugs: RESULT["moose"]
literal pugs: [~^] <m oo se> 07:08
p6eval pugs: RESULT["q\n"]
literal is that a q and a newline or a q, backslash, n? 07:09
TimToady I would think it would end up with 2 chars
pugs: chars [~^] <m oo se> 07:11
p6eval pugs: RESULT[2]
07:21 ashizawa joined 07:40 ab5tract left 07:46 charsbar left, charsbar joined 07:59 smg joined 08:01 Maghnus left, [1]Maghnus joined 08:02 [1]Maghnus is now known as Maghnus 08:04 pbuetow joined 08:06 Maghnus left, Maghnus joined 08:08 araujo joined 08:13 elmex joined 08:22 smg left 08:30 pbuetow left 08:31 cognominal joined 08:34 jferrero joined 08:36 Ontolog left 08:41 pmurias joined 08:46 iblechbot joined 08:48 xinming left, xinming joined 08:52 masak joined
pmurias wayland_: there's a huge gap between usefull for something and fully finished 08:53
09:01 pmurias left
pugs_svn r22838 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] no DumpMatch; #it is been 'nice' seeing ya 09:05
r22838 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] no more javascript tree traversal; tree info is hidden in html
r22838 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] You can consider this an SP1 ;-)
azawawi moritz_: DumpMatch.pm has been retired from service, DumpMatch.pm++ 09:07
masak DumpMatch.pm is dead, long live DumpMatch.pm! 09:10
azawawi ;-)
pugs_svn r22839 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] no more podchecker warnings; 09:11
09:19 smtms_ is now known as smtms 09:21 cosimo joined 09:24 zamolxes left
azawawi im seeing a constant load average of 5 on feather1 even though we have 3 users online 09:25
azawawi wishes for feather4 to be a supercomputer ;-) 09:26
load avg cause so far is "sslh & readproctitle" 09:27
@tell juerd load avg is 4-5 on feather; sslh + readproctitle are taking a lot of the cpu. thx [9:29 GMT] 09:29
lambdabot Consider it noted.
09:37 Lorn joined 09:52 smg joined
masak @tell TimToady In Java, the .contains method in Hashtable was considered a mistake in hindsight, becuase some people thought it was synonymous with .containsKey and some with .containsValue -- the newer class HashMap therefore has no .contains method, to avoid confusion. Do you foresee similar confusion in Perl 6? Also, why do we have both .contains and :exist, when they seem to do the same thing? 10:11
lambdabot Consider it noted.
10:14 pedrob joined 10:20 tomyan joined 10:30 Lorn left 10:32 azawawi left 10:33 crksht is now known as chkghst 10:34 chkghst is now known as crkghst
wayland_ @tell pmurias I presume the comment about the gap between useful and finished relates to my advice to spx2, but I'm still not sure what you're saying :) 10:41
lambdabot Consider it noted.
10:53 pmurias joined 10:55 ashizawa left
pmurias wayland_: what i meant is that rakudo will become usefull much sooner than it support the whole of perl6 10:58
lambdabot pmurias: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
10:59 riffraff joined 11:00 ruoso joined
masak rakudo: sub alwaystrue { return 1 }; say 0 ~~ alwaystrue 11:00
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[0ā¤]
masak that's wrong, isn't it?
the match table in S03 seems to indicate that when a Code is smartmatched against in any context other than $, then it should ignore the lhs and return its own return value 11:02
moritz_ masak: but you have to write that as ~~ &allwaystrue in rakudo 11:03
masak oh, that's right. sorry.
rakudo: sub alwaystrue { return 1 }; say 0 ~~ &alwaystrue 11:04
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[1ā¤]
masak that's better.
false alarm.
rakudo: class A { method alwaystrue { return 1 } }; given A.new { say "irrelevant" ~~ .alwaystrue } 11:07
p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[0ā¤]
masak that, however, seems wrong to me
S03, again, says that Any ~~ .foo translates to ?.foo 11:10
if that were the case above, we'd get a 1 back
wayland_ pmurias: yeah, I know; it's at least somewhat useful now (November :) ), but the code that I'm attempting to write, that nearly all other code that I want to write depends on, seems to require macros and operator overloading :) 11:14
11:14 alc left
wayland_ And the one other piece of code I was working on ran into the recursion/for loop bug :) 11:14
masak ah, that one. :) 11:15
at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel regarding that bug, with the lex branch that pmichaud++ is working on 11:16
wayland_ Yup :)
Basically, the bug hampered me when I was trying to turn Moritz' XML Grammar into a tree :) 11:17
(that is, a DOM-style tree)
masak I can imagine.
(moritz_ has an XML grammar?)
wayland_ So the only code I have that doesn't seem to be running in to some sort of bug is the CSS parser :)
well, kinda
masak I might be interested in that. 11:18
if it's for public eyes, that is.
wayland_ Well, what I've written so far isn't
moritz_ masak: it's on my blog
wayland_ But Moritz' stuff is
masak moritz_: ah, that's why I haven't seen it. I'm behind on my firehose. 11:19
11:20 Ontolog joined
moritz_ masak: it's nothing new... lessen 22 or 23 or something... 11:20
masak oki, then I may have seen it but forgotten about it.
my dream is to some day be able to do XSLT in Perl 6. 11:21
wayland_ All I did was attach a tree-building function to it
masak then we could ditch HTML::Template entirely! :)
wayland_ and it doesn't work because of the bug :)
When you say XSLT, do you mean actual XSLT, or just perform similar functions to XSLT? 11:22
masak the real thing.
wayland_ The thing that I need operators and macros for is a Tree thing that will hopefully allow you to do tree transforms, and then spit out the tree as XML, or LDAP, or whatever you want to put in 11:23
masak: ok. I hated XSLT, but I love XPath :)
masak I like both.
the only thing I slightly dislike about XSLT is that it's a bit verbose.
wayland_ yeah, that's what I hated :)
masak but the better I got at XPath, the smaller that problem seemed to become. 11:24
wayland_ and I also (don't laugh) thought that the syntax was naturally less readable than it could've been :)
masak the syntax of XSLT or of XPath? 11:25
to this day, I still sometimes write '/' instead of 'div' when trying to divide numbers in XPath 11:26
wayland_ XSLT; XPath is wonderful just the way it is, except I would like it if you could make it select an attribute by default rather than nodeName() :)
search.cpan.org/dist/XML-XPathScrip...hScript.pm
Hae you seen XPathScript?
Yeah, the multiple / meaning is a pain 11:27
I wasted some time once designing the perfect keyboard. Unfortunately it had over 180 keys, but you could to the division symbol on it
masak moritz_: ah. found it: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-5-to-6/20-....writeback 11:28
lambdabot Title: blog | Perlgeek.de Blog :: A grammar for (pseudo) XML, tinyurl.com/6kczpc
wayland_ the -:- sort of one
masak wayland_: XPathScript: hadn't seen.
wayland_ You can do some pretty cool things with it :) 11:29
masak wayland_: anyway, I think XSLT is a perfect fit for HTML templates.
the challenge will be making it fast enough to be usable.
wayland_ :)
masak preferably without resorting to C bindings, although that's certainly an alternative if All Else Fails. 11:30
or will be, I don't know about the state of FFI in Parrot.
wayland_ Well, I put in an ugly piece of code to integrate it with Mason, and then I could write a template for each XML tag, and it all happened :) 11:31
FFI?
if you mean Native Call Interface, I tried to use their converter to turn .h files into the appropriate PIR, and it didn't work 11:32
masak Foreign Function Interfact -- at least that's what I think it's called
wayland_ (tried to link the Enlightenment Widget Library to parrot :) )
masak yeah, might be NCI I mean :)
wayland_ well, I only know because I played with it the day before yesterday for the first time 11:33
:)
masak maybe we should settle for calling xsltproc as an external process... I actually don't know how the cost of calling an external process compares against the cost of insisting on doing the whole recursive matching in Perl 6 ;) 11:39
...also, some people may rightly complain that xsltproc isn't written in Perl 6, and that November is meant to showcase Perl 6 features. 11:40
11:40 pedrob left 11:45 ejs joined
wayland_ Well, as the song says "You can't please everyone, so ya ... gotta please yourself". 11:57
:)
Goodnight all (I learned my lesson well) :) 11:58
betime &
masak 'night 11:59
12:02 smtms left 12:16 sri_kraih joined 12:23 zch051383471952 joined 12:27 kane_ left 12:31 sri_kraih_ left 12:33 sri_kraih left, kane_ joined 12:34 sri_kraih joined
pmurias ruoso: re "in optimizers i trust" how are they supposed to remove the overhead with the proposed smop/p5 integration? 13:01
13:01 smtms joined
PerlJam pmurias: I tend to view anything integrating with perl 5 guts as "hard" :-) But other than that, it just seems like a lot of work in that there are several steps and you have to be careful to get them just right or you get lots of breakage. 13:03
13:09 Lorn joined
[particle] that's why you talk to p5p and make them do the hard work :) 13:11
13:35 masak left
ruoso pmurias, optimization is not an area that I know... but there are dark magics that I've heard of about detecting repeated patterns and avoiding repetitive tests... 13:38
pmurias ROADMAP wise, it's not a thing we should be doing right now? 13:40
PerlJam get it working first, then get it working fast :) 13:41
ruoso "all evil is premature optimization squared"
pmurias what i meant more is the perl5 integration as a whole 13:42
ruoso that's what I'm already experimenting...
I've git clonned p5 just yesterday
PerlJam pmurias: oh! Why do you think not?
pmurias PerlJam: is was thinking that we should bootstrap the metamodel first 13:43
s/is/i/
PerlJam Hmm
seems like that could happen in parallel
ruoso I'm still tempted to 'use SMOP' to do that first
PerlJam though, I guess, if you've got limited resources, you might want to optimize utilization of those resources ... 13:44
(that's the one case where premature optimization is NOT evil)
pmurias perl5 integration would allow us to cheat during the bootstrap
PerlJam: we have very limited resources but doing things in parrarel is more -Ofun ;) 13:46
ruoso pmurias, I'm not sure yet if we need to cheat 13:49
pmurias, I do think we can bootstrap the metamodel with the things we have 13:52
I think the thing to do now is to work on mildew to have it making the correct declarations 13:53
I have a feeling that if we implement all built-in types in Perl 6 13:54
mildew will have how to bootstrap the type system
PerlJam ruoso: where's the p5 git repo? (where did you clone from?) 13:56
ruoso git clone git://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git 13:57
PerlJam hmm. that's what I just used but it's saying connection refused.
pmurias ruoso: are there any other uses of the C stack than having a inner runloop? 13:58
ruoso pmurias, in p5?
pmurias yes
ruoso unfortunally, yes
the evaluation of BEGIN recurses in the C stack 13:59
while the code is still parsing
as well as require 14:00
er... the 'require' keyword, I mean... 14:01
but I'm trying to keep hope that this can be fixed 14:03
spx2_ does perl6 have better non-adhoc/non-improvisational organized object-oriented features ? 14:21
or will it have when it's out ?
PerlJam spx2_: um ... yes?
[particle] S11?
er, S12
spx2_ PerlJam: can I please see a bit of code samples maybe ?
[particle] perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html 14:22
lambdabot Title: S12
spx2_ is Moose somehow part of Perl6 ?
pmurias spx2_: class Foo { has $.bar; method foo {say "foo"} }
spx2_ will there be Moose in Perl6 or will it be part of the core ?
PerlJam spx2_: no.
spx2_ oh that's nice
PerlJam spx2_: Moose is built from ideas stolen from Perl 6. 14:23
[particle] also see files in directories starting with S12- in svn.pugscode.org/pugs/t/spec/
lambdabot Title: pugs - Revision 22839: /t/spec
ruoso spx2_, feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html_smop...ct.pm.html <-- this is already parseable by STD 14:24
lambdabot Title: ../../v6/smop/src-s1p/Object.pm
spx2_ āˆš 14:28
Ɨ
[particle] stevan has said many times moose is a bridge to perl 6 oo, and will go away
spx2_ what are those symbols ? fail/ok tests ?
wow,I've never been present at none of the times stevan said that
but anyway 14:29
14:29 jferrero left
PerlJam spx2_: go to #moose and prod stevan into saying it again :) 14:30
spx2_ :)
PerlJam [particle]: I think Moose will go away just as soon as there's a Perl 6ish replacement. Otherwise, it's sticking around for a whle.
s/whle/while/
spx2_ is this perl6 syntax @objectĀ».meth(@args) ? 14:35
that character Ā» ... that's not on my kb
ruoso Ā» means "do it in all elements of @object" 14:36
[particle] for the unicode-impaired, you can use >> 14:39
@object>>.meth()
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
[particle] @kicks lambabot
14:39 Limbic_Region joined
pmurias PerlJam: what are the features that Moose provides that Perl 6 doesn't have built in? 14:43
PerlJam none that I know fo. 14:44
s/fo/of/
[particle] perl 5 integration? ;) 14:49
PerlJam [particle]++ 14:50
araujo wonders what Moose is 14:51
14:53 spx2_ left, spx2 joined
PerlJam araujo: perl 6 object model in perl 5. 14:53
araujo aah, thanks PerlJam 14:54
[particle] perl 6-like object mode 14:58
*model
PerlJam perl 6 object model minus the things I don't really understand or see a need for :) 14:59
mst actually asked me the other day what perl 6 had that moose needed and after reviewing S12, I couldn't find anything that fit the bill. 15:02
(other than actual language support for types, type signatures, etc. :)
Tene Juerd isn't around, and I'm getting segfaults on feather3 15:03
15:03 rdice joined
diakopter Tene: /msg Juerd.. 15:05
Tene Oh, huh. Thanks.
diakopter he said he was cutting back on channels. irc rehab, I guess. 15:06
15:19 zch051383471952 left, Alias_ left 15:21 meppl joined
meppl gugu 15:21
15:27 eternaleye left 15:28 Exodist joined 15:33 adc_Penner joined 15:35 hercynium left 15:48 tak` joined, tak` is now known as tak11
tak11 is there an estimated date on perl 6? =x 15:53
15:55 tak11 left 15:59 justatheory joined 16:03 ejs left 16:16 pmurias left 16:32 anonymous_ left 16:33 pedrob joined 16:40 zamolxes joined 16:57 mj41_ left 17:02 mj41 joined, rdice left 17:16 azawawi joined 17:19 tomyan left 17:26 pedrob left
azawawi ping -b 17:29
[particle] sorry, i can't find -b in the dns. 17:34
:P
azawawi ;-)
check this out: feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html/S05-...imple.html 17:37
lambdabot Title: Error
azawawi ulimit++
[particle] :) 17:38
17:39 ab5tract joined
TimToady we could probably cut down memory usage by not storing the tree if it's just going to be thrown away anyway. 17:46
lambdabot TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
17:49 Southen joined
pugs_svn r22840 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] changed the redspans* to simple* 17:50
azawawi i cant benchmark correctly on feather1 since load avg seems to be between 3-5 all the time. 17:52
TimToady: im actually embedding the tree in the full javascript html... 2 spans for each colored span 17:53
feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html/S05-...bst.t.html
lambdabot Title: ../../t/spec/S05-substitution/subst.t, tinyurl.com/6qpvne
17:54 bcornett joined
azawawi since we call 17:55
17:56 pbuetow joined
azawawi TimToady: since STD.pm calls AUTOLOAD to fill the @loc array, i think we can print it out on each call (to reduce memory usage)... 17:56
TimToady I'm thinking of detecting a call to parsefile in void context, and throwing away all repeating elements, on the assumption that anything that checks a repeating element for its value is only interested in the final one. 18:00
so it would throw away each statement when it has parsed another, for instance
you'd still get all the action calls though
azawawi is working --ansi-color mode ;-) 18:01
TimToady it'd be enough for redspans, or for checking that a file compiles correctly
maybe just hardwire it to throw away old statements in void context 18:03
might cut memory usage way down for files like rx.t
18:09 mj41 left
ab5tract what is a redspan? 18:23
[particle] svn.pugscode.org/pugs/src/perl6/redspans 18:25
ab5tract thanks [particle]
pugs_svn r22841 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] implemented --ansi-text to print out ANSI color escape sequences 18:42
18:44 ZuLuuuuuu joined 18:47 spx2 left 19:01 pmurias joined
pmurias ruoso: the SMOP perl5 bindings are powerfull enough for what mildew needs now? 19:02
ruoso pmurias, I think so... I don't think we need to callback p5 to have the type system bootstrapped
19:06 ZuLuuuuuu left
pugs_svn r22842 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] --simple-html=- is enabled by default if no other option is found 19:07
pmurias ruoso: how should control flow be represented in the tree form of mold as seperate nodes for if,while...? 19:08
ruoso pmurias, what do you mean? 19:09
pmurias what should mildew turn while or an if into, mold has an unconditional and conditional jumps but it's inconvenient to have those in a tree 19:14
tree being the mildew AST
19:15 lisppaste3 left, pbuetow left, lisppaste3 joined
ruoso pmurias, oh... right... I think you can use the conditional branch, but still have the block as a new code object 19:16
the alternative would be to have them as s1p types
(I'm not sure if you can avoid a type with while...) 19:17
pmurias is confused
ruoso the m0ld for an Perl 6 if would look like:
if $cond { goto then; } else { goto else; };
then:
my $thencode = Ā¢SMOP__S1P__Code."new"(); 19:18
$thencode."postcircumfix:()"
goto end:
else:
my $elsecode = Ā¢SMOP__S1P__Code."new"(...)
$elsecode.()
end:
pmurias, do you see what I mean? 19:19
pmurias yes
ruoso but I'm not sure you can do that for while
because I think while also return each value of the loop iirc
pmurias what i'm unsure about how should should the if be represented in the treeified form of m0ld 19:20
ruoso OP::If(then => mold { }, else => mold { })? 19:21
actually
OP::If(cond => { },then => mold { }, else => mold { })?
or something like that
19:21 riffraff left
pmurias it 19:22
's the AST package now 19:23
ruoso pmurias, right... but I think the idea would still be the same, right? 19:24
19:28 LimbicRegion joined
azawawi @seen TimToady 19:29
lambdabot TimToady is in #perl6. I last heard TimToady speak 1h 25m 37s ago.
pugs_svn r22843 | pmurias++ | [smop] bytecode length is calculated when creating a new Mold, smop_mold is also included 19:30
pmurias ruoso: yes exactly the same, was unsure if labels wouldn't be saner but propably not 19:31
ruoso pmurias, the problem with that is that each block is a new lexical scope
so better use S1P__Code 19:32
19:46 Limbic_Region left, LimbicRegion is now known as Limbic_Region
ruoso later & 19:48
19:48 ruoso left
azawawi @tell TimToady i got it: Reduce @loc to contain string->tree instead of char->tree (i.e move code in redspans MAIN to AUTOLOAD...) 20:10
lambdabot Consider it noted.
azawawi @tell lambdabot try {my $to_be_nice;} 20:12
lambdabot Nice try ;)
pugs_svn r22844 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] fixed a typo [redspans->simple] 20:25
azawawi good night & 20:31
20:31 azawawi left 20:38 bacek joined 20:43 Lorn left 20:46 Lorn joined, ab5tract left 21:05 zamolxes left 21:09 renormalist joined 21:18 dolmen joined 21:33 crkghst is now known as crksht 21:53 bacek left 22:00 pedrob joined 22:06 smg left 22:37 adc_Penner left 22:38 alester left 22:40 Maghnus left 22:44 REPLeffect left 22:47 Lorn left 22:52 iblechbot left 22:59 masak joined 23:07 Maghnus joined 23:26 pmurias left
masak happy November, everyone! 23:28
wayland_ Happy November to you too :) 23:33
masak :-)
十äø€ęœˆåæ«ä¹! 23:34
I hope I got that right.
perl6: say "十äø€ęœˆåæ«ä¹".chars 23:35
p6eval elf 22844, pugs, rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[5ā¤] 23:36
masak eh, not bad.
23:37 smg joined
wayland_ :) 23:39
About all I can tell is it's asian :)
Anyone know if there's a Data::Dumper equivalent for rakudo?
masak wayland_: yes, I guess it's too short to rule out Japanese. 23:40
wayland_: but you should recognize that it's not Hangul. :)
23:40 Limbic_Region left
wayland_ I've never spent enough time looking at the asian languages to be able to tell the difference 23:40
although I could probably pick the sanskrit-descended ones from the ones further east 23:41
masak takes a few minutes to learn to tell them apart.
wayland_ and the other alphabetic ones; I think there's some in south-east asia
masak: sounds easy. Any tips where on the web I learn this?
masak though learning to distinguish Simplified Chinese from Traditional is not always easy.
wayland_: just hit the various articles on Wikipedia, they're usually good for stuff like this. 23:42
wayland_ Probably not that much harder than distinguishing bokmaal from nynorsk (which I doubt I can do either) :)
masak me neither. :)
wayland_ ok, will try to remember to hit those wp articles 23:45
Japanese, Chinese, Korean; any other major ones?
masak I would call those the major ones. But my bias is in that area since I'm studying Chinese. :) 23:46
wayland_ Of course. But there probably can't bee to many ideographic (???) languages around these days 23:47
masak you will especially find the Korean characters refreshing; they were introduced by an enlightened king in the 15th century. very logical.
wayland_: don't underestimate ideographic writing systems. :) they are way cool. 23:48
I hear they are used by a couple of hundred million people in Asia.
wayland_ well, yes. I know they have their advantages, I just don't know what they are :) 23:49
23:49 sri_kraih left, spx2 joined
wayland_ But the reason I said "these days" is because I know there were more in the ancient past 23:49
but I'm at least somewhat aware of writing systems (having dabbled a little in linguistics), and figured I'd probably know if there were a big stack today :) 23:50
masak wayland_: ideographic writing systems are more "natural" in the sense that it takes quite a big step to discover the alphabet-based way of doing things. 23:51
that doesn't mean that they are either better or worse, of course.
23:53 lizsac left, lizsac joined
wayland_ From what I've been told, in the west, the Egyptians had an ideographic system, and either the Phoenecians or the Hebrews (depending on who you ask) made the transition to alphabetic 23:53
23:54 alester joined
wayland_ I suspect, though, that alphabet-based systems lend themselves better to mechanisation, and make it simpler to learn new words 23:54
Unfortunately, my browser doesn't seem to like the Korean :( 23:55
masak oh, you're missing out.
install a font or something.
meppl good night 23:56
wayland_ I'm investigating; I have a couple of fonts that might do it, but I've never fiddled with changing the font of a web page before :)
'night, meppl
meppl ;) 23:57
masak sleep tight, meppl 23:58
meppl ;)
23:59 meppl left
masak wayland_: the browsers I typically use allow you to change default fonts in the Options pane. 23:59

Powered by Cro and the RakuĀ® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!