The topic for #perl6 is: pugscode.org/ planetsix.perl.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, elf: etc.) (or perl6: for all) | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by TimToady on 25 November 2008.
pugs_svn r24382 | hinrik++ | [examples/euler] adjust the characters allowed in an identifer, support all variants of «»/<<>> hyperops, don't allow nonsensical sigil combinations 00:33
literal er...that was supposed to be [util/perl6.vim] ....oh well 00:36
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rakudo_svn r33907 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: Merge associative branch into trunk. 02:10
r33907 | pmichaud++ | Rakudo now supports slicing on hashes.
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mpeter does perl 6 work yet 03:00
Hinrik some of it does 03:02
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alester mpeter: Check out rakudo.org to check the key Perl 6 implementation, Rakudo Perl. 03:13
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mpeter you guys have any example scripts yet? 03:30
can we do functional code :)
Hinrik mpeter: here's an application -> github.com/viklund/november/tree/master/p6w 03:32
mpeter: there's also the Perl 6 test suite -> svn.pugscode.org/pugs/t/spec/ 03:36
mpeter wikis are a fad ;)
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mpeter or at least wikipedia is 03:36
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mpeter wikipedia sucks 03:38
is pugs named after hugs 03:43
Hinrik yeah
mpeter i like haskell 03:45
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pugs_svn r24383 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] add more keywords, improve matching of reduce, hyperoperators, and angles, fix problem with package scope in some variables 04:07
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alester mpeter: Whehter wikis are fads or not, it's still good, working code. 04:14
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pugs_svn r24384 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] highlight separators in Pod formatting codes such as | in L<>, (this is is now the second largest vim syntax file ever, yay) 04:32
Eevee what's the largest? 04:35
Hinrik baan.vim which is distributed with vim 04:36
no idea what baan is though 04:37
but I must say that it cheats by putting only one keyword per line, which takes up a lot of lines :)
pugs_svn r24385 | leto++ | Tests for hyperbolic trig functions 04:41
meppl good night 04:47
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pugs_svn r24386 | leto++ | Add tests for sec(), cosech() and cotanh() 05:11
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pugs_svn r24387 | leto++ | Unfudge passing hash slice tests 05:21
r24388 | leto++ | Unfudge passing hash reference tests 05:24
r24389 | leto++ | Unfudge passing hash subscript tests in S02 05:30
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pugs_svn r24390 | azawawi++ | [Syntax::Highlight::Perl6] Fixed a typo 06:02
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azawawi good morning 06:06
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Hinrik hi 06:11
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rakudo_svn r33913 | tene++ | [rakudo]: Update warn() to use an exception. 06:20
r33915 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: spectest-progress.csv update: 249 files, 5101 passing, 0 failing 06:30
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baest moritz_: ping, I just saw your tests in ws.t, and should the 'implicit <.ws> is overridden' capture 'axb'? 10:19
moritz_: I thought the capture should contain 'ab' 10:20
moritz_ baest: $/ itself captures the whole matched string, not only those parts that were captured by a capturing subrule 10:22
baest moritz_: ok, then I misunderstood it then. Then it work for me and my ticket describes the wrong problem as you said. But isn't it possible then to match something and throw it away again? 10:25
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moritz_ baest: I still think that your problem is related to ws overriding, even though my test case happens to work... 10:26
baest moritz_: well, it matches correctly, but I just thought that I could have it remove the comments from the capture so I didn't have to bother with that 10:27
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moritz_ baest: I haven't worked through your example yet ... (more) 10:28
baest: but if you don't want to bother about whitespaces, walk through all the captured subrules instead 10:29
baest moritz_: it works like your test cases, so no need. Your example puzzles me :)
moritz_ baest: so if you have rule foo { <bar> <baz> }, just walk through $<bar> and $<baz> 10:30
baest moritz_: yes, you're right, I could do that, but that would also mean that I would have to have a sub rule for each "element", a bit annoying, but I guess that's the way to go 10:33
moritz_ baest: actually that's an open problem in the matching/capturing process, and TimToady is still thinking about it 10:37
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baest moritz_: good, that is good news, it didn't seem very perl6ish that I had to bother with that :) Maybe a flag that throws away everything matched in non capturing subrules 10:39
moritz_ baest: my proposed solution was more like an iterator over $/ that iterates over all captured elements in the order in which they appeared in the string 10:41
pugs_svn r24391 | pmurias++ | [mildew]
r24391 | pmurias++ | the last thing in a sub is returned
r24391 | pmurias++ | removed clean from the default target
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baest moritz_: that would also work for me 10:42
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pmichaud ....here's a question based on things I saw in the test suite last night. 13:00
Let's start with a simple case:
@array = [1, 2, 3]; # @array has how many elements?
lambdabot I'll crush ye barnacles!
jnthn 1? 13:03
pmichaud that's what I think also. Now then:
@array = { a=>1, b=>2 }; # @array has how many elements ?
lambdabot Yo ho ho, and a bottle of rum!
moritz_ pmichaud: 1 13:04
pmichaud okay, and with
jnthn 1.
moritz_ funny number guessing :-)
pmichaud %hash = { a => 1, b => 2 }; # error?
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jnthn Uneven number of elements. 13:04
moritz_ I think so, yess 13:05
jnthn: that's called "odd" :-)
pmichaud okay. Test suite says otherwise in many places.
lots of places say my %hash = { ... };
moritz_ however there's a special case, iirc
jnthn moritz_: OH YEAH!
:-)
moritz_ my %hash = hash{ ... }
there is a hash constructor somewhere that uses curlies
uhm.. 13:06
pmichaud: see S03, search for "hash composer"
pmichaud I think that's actually the same issue:
moritz_ it lists '{ a => 42 }' as a hash composer
pmichaud hash { ... } # odd number of elements 13:07
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pmichaud sure, I have no problem with { a => 42 } being a hash composer 13:07
my question is whether it creates a hash or a hashref
moritz_ perl6: my $x = 0; $x++ for { a => 1, b => 2 }; say $x 13:08
jnthn In @a = { a => 42 }
p6eval elf 24391: OUTPUT[Can't call method "flatten" on unblessed reference at (eval 117) line 4.␤ at ./elf_f line 3861␤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[2␤]
..rakudo 33915: OUTPUT[1␤]
jnthn I would expect it to have an array of one hash element.
Which implies hashref, as a hash would flatten there when put in list context, IIRC?
pmichaud flattening hash produces a single pair
(iirc)
I mean, flattening hash produces list of pairs 13:09
still, the question is whether the { ... } produce a hashref or no. 13:10
moritz_ pugs seems to think it's not a reference 13:11
(and although it did many things wrong, the ref/nonref distinction was astongishly right most of the time) 13:12
maybe ask p6l?
pmichaud okay, I don't have a problem with "not a ref". That's consistent with most of the existing test suite. 13:13
it does mean that @array = { a=>1, b=>2 } gives @array two elements and not one. 13:14
moritz_ it will feel very weird for many perl 5 programmers :-)
pmichaud I have to get kids to school -- will post message when I get back 13:15
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pmichaud I've been under the impression that a hash in list context produces a list of pairs... but I can't find confirmation of that in the synopses. Can anyone else confirm somehow? (e.g., synopsis reference or test?) 13:52
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pmichaud aha, I see why rakudo has been working okay til now. It's been giving hashref special treatment in the hash contextualizer. 14:10
that kinda makes sense, so maybe we'll stick with that for now. 14:12
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ruoso Hello! 14:33
moritz_ so maybe the hardest part of "implementing Perl 6" is "understanding Perl 6" :-) 14:36
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pmichaud 20:33 14:42
TimToady
after all, Perl Philosphy is simply to torment the implementors on behalf of the user
grr, that didn't paste well.
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rakudo_svn r33916 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: Refactor Array assignment. 15:10
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pmurias ruoso: hi 15:14
lambdabot pmurias: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
ruoso hi pmichaud 15:17
hi pmurias
pmurias ruoso: we have the autovivifaction stuff nicely specced somwhere? 15:19
.^!private_storage{$?CLASS} needs to be autovivified 15:20
ruoso pmurias, well... after we have hash bvalue
it's kinda ready to work
the hard part now is the universal undef that becomes anythign 15:21
pmurias we need to decide if we want to allow mutable RI's 15:22
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ruoso pmurias, what do you mean? 15:33
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pmurias_ ruoso: can objects "morph" into a different RI? 15:34
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ruoso well... conceptually the runtime is not aware of that... 15:34
meaning that if you can handle it, it can be done 15:35
but it could require a realloc
which could lead to undesired effects
i.e. the pointer being moved
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pmurias if the RI pointer was constant the optimiser could rely on it 15:36
ruoso the RI pointer for most types currently implemented are constant 15:37
but... 15:38
it's important to realize that the way autovivification work doesn't require changing RI
it requires a OO-capable RI
i.e.: p6opaque
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ruoso so it can be blessed to something else 15:38
but... 15:39
we probably can get away because of the bvalue object
if the bvalue returns itself on FETCH (if the target hash doesn't have the key) 15:40
and it also support .{} and .[]
you can have Perl 6 autovivification semantics in SMOP rather easy
actually, I think that's all you nee
pmurias, make hash bvalue return itself if the actual hash doesn't contain the desired key on FETCH 15:41
pmurias, then implement .{} and .[] returning a bvalue-of-bvalue object 15:42
pmurias, and also implement .{} and .[] in bvalue-of-bvalue, returning another bvalue-of-bvalue... 15:43
when someone does %a{b}{c}[0][1] you'll get a chain of bvalue-of-bvalue objects
and if then that is used as a target to STORE 15:44
pmurias that would mean a non-bvalue object couldn't autovifiy
ruoso hmm... it actually means that autovivifcation of hashes and arrays is special cased 15:45
it doesn't change the use of WHENCE
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pmurias WHENCE is a bit different 15:46
ruoso yes
it's the higher-level version of the thing I just described
pmurias, but did you understand how that works as a lazy lookup mechanism 15:49
?
and how it is collapsed in the end?
pmurias pmurias: yes
ruoso .oO ( is pmurias trying to convince himself that he understood? ) 15:51
pmurias heh
ruoso: yes
ruoso the only thing blurred about that 15:53
is how that chain is notified that it was a target of a bind
my $a := %a{1}[2]{4}[5];
or of a capture
ruoso going to re-re-read S09 on that matter
pmichaud I think binding vivifies. I seem to recall some tests that indicate that.
pmurias the bvalue autovivifies it's container when it is a target of a .BIND or .STORE 15:55
ruoso sure... that's when it's a lvalue 15:56
but it also autovivifies if it's a rvalue of a BIND
but that probably is done by the bind code, not by the bvalue itself 15:57
pmurias & 15:58
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rakudo_svn r33917 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: Refactor Scalar coercions. 16:00
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rakudo_svn r33920 | infinoid++ | [cage] Fix the following codetest failures: 16:50
r33920 | infinoid++ | * t/codingstd/c_cppcomments.t
r33920 | infinoid++ | * t/codingstd/c_operator.t
r33920 | infinoid++ | * t/codingstd/trailing_space.t
r33922 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: Refactor hash construction and assignment. 17:00
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azawawi hi there 17:21
pmurias & 17:22
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azawawi moritz_: Syntax::Highlight::Perl6 is going into Bundle::Perl6. The owner (Marcel Gr􏿽xFCnauer) promised me that he will do it soon. 17:27
pugs_svn r24392 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Fix one test to use ok() instead of is(), unfudge for rakudo. 17:43
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Tene So, how do I resume from an exception in Perl 6? 19:38
do { die 'omg'; say 'after the exception'; CATCH { say 'caught the exception'; <what goes here?> } } 19:39
ruoso Tene, I don't think there's a spec on that already 19:40
Tene Could it be $_.resume() ?
I also see no spec on that.
ruoso I'd presume something like that
[particle] .resume() looks nicer to me 19:42
lambdabot [particle]: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
Tene [particle]: same thing. 19:43
ruoso Tene, please send this question to p6-l
[particle] of course it is, it's just prettier
ruoso there are some issues there waiting for TimToady already... 19:44
[particle] however, i find ".resume;" less readable
Tene Sent to p6l 19:47
rakudo_svn r33930 | infinoid++ | [cage] More codingstd fixes. 19:50
r33930 | infinoid++ | * t/codingstd/perlcritic.t (ignore perl6 files based on containing "use v6;")
r33930 | infinoid++ | * t/codingstd/trailing_space.t (again)
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rff hi 20:18
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Tene Hi. 20:21
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moritz_ re 21:16
azawawi wb 21:17
moritz_: i talked to szabgab today about Padre-Perl6 highlighting 21:18
moritz_: the work will be a plug-in called Padre::Plugin::Perl6
moritz_ azawawi: cool 21:19
azawawi moritz_: but we have some road-blocks ;-)
moritz_: STD.pmc is hooked on 5.10 and Moose 21:20
PerlJam azawawi: so ... what's the problem? :)
azawawi moritz_: and Padre can work on 5.8.x
moritz_ azawawi: well, STD.pm can't. So the plugin is only there for 5.10 or better.
azawawi moritz_: any reason for STD.pm to work only on 5.10? 21:21
[particle] 5.10 regex engine required
moritz_ azawawi: yes, state variables 21:22
azawawi so 5.8.x compatibility is out of the question or would mean slower performance?
[particle] out of the question
azawawi [particle]: cool ;-) 21:23
[particle]: less work
azawawi is communicating that info to #padre folks 21:24
done, Padre::Plugin::Perl6 is >= 5.10 21:31
anyway by the time Padre is stable, 5.10 install base will be larger 21:33
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moritz_ perl6: say a => '3' 21:48
p6eval rakudo 33935: OUTPUT[␤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[*** Named argument found where no matched parameter expected: (a,Ann (Pos (MkPos "/tmp/b0NvBGYy08" 1 10 2 1)) (Val (VStr "3")))␤ at /tmp/b0NvBGYy08 line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤]
..elf 24392: OUTPUT[a 3␤]
moritz_ perl6: say ((a => '3'))
p6eval elf 24392, pugs, rakudo 33935: OUTPUT[a 3␤]
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Tene My mail to p6l hasn't gone through 22:03
moritz_ Tene: then resend 22:04
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Tene [email@hidden.address] ? 22:05
moritz_ aye 22:06
Tene sent again
azawawi mortiz_: fyi, performance of STD.pm on win32 during initial lex cache creation is prettty slow; otherwise it is fast 22:07
moritz_ doesn't really care about windows, since he doesn't have it available 22:08
azawawi moritz_: and it seems we're using 'cp' inside STD.pm 22:09
pasteling "azawawi" at 212.38.154.37 pasted "warnings from running on strawberry perl win32" (4 lines, 184B) at sial.org/pbot/33767 22:10
azawawi you got to love those win32 warnings ;-)
...external command, "operable" program or batch file.... 22:11
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[particle] what's wrong with that? 22:12
foo.pl is an inoperable program unless perl.exe in installed and there's a file association with *.pl
azawawi the good thing is that it worked on win32 even with that warning, TimToady++ ;-) 22:14
good night & 22:15
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pmichaud sometimes messages to @perl.org get bottlenecked and take a while to process. Also, sometimes they get moderated depending on how long it's been since your last post. 22:17
Tene very long time, if ever 22:24
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eric256 is there somewhere i can get a feel for how complete the perl6 specs are and how complete certain implementations are? like how far along rakudo and pugs are? 23:09
moritz_ eric256: for rakudo's progress please read www.rakudo.org/2008/12/rakudo-perl-...ver-5.html 23:10
eric256: specs are hard to say... IO, builtins and concurrency need a lot of love...
and there are synopsis that no implementation hasn't tackled yet, so it's nearly impossiblt to tell if they are implementatble, and useful 23:11
eric256 hmmm okay.. been away from the project for a while and was hoping there where some milestones out in the future ;) 23:12
gonna play with rakudo some for sure
moritz_ well, there are new spec drafts
S07, iterators and lazyness
and S19, command line
pugs_svn r24393 | moritz++ | [docs] list S19 in feather/syn_index.html 23:13
r24394 | moritz++ | [util/smartlinks.pl] also generate synopsis that don't have any smartlinks yet
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moritz_ and I've been collecting ideas for S24, Testing 23:15
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pmichaud eric256: I'm drafting milestones for Rakudo this week. 23:16
basically I'm coming up with the plan for 2009.
eric256 cool and cool ;)
pmichaud watch rakudo.org for details :-)
eric256 so i'm just reading about rakudo now, is it written in perl6 itself? or parrot? and whats the comparison of pugs vs rakudo? are they both moving ahead at full speed? 23:17
pmichaud rakudo is part perl 6, part parrot.
we're slowly (more slowly than I like) moving more bits of it to perl 6
moritz_ pugs is sleeping, for quite some time now
eric256 lol alright, the haskell stuff in pugs always scared me
pmichaud the main compiler components are perl 6.
the libraries are still principally PIR (parrot), but we're working on that. 23:18
[particle] eric256: see my entry at www.rakudo.org/2008/12/rakudo-spec-...-char.html
eric256 oh thats kinda sad on pugs, it would have been interesting to have competeing implementations but probably not a good use of resources
jnthn We still have that. :-)
See elf, smop.
[particle] and pugs is still competitive 23:19
it passes more tests than rakudo
moritz_ and we've got an extensive test suite and much infrastructure out of pugs
eric256 yea got busy at work at lost track of perlmonks and perl6 so i'm playing some catchup 23:20
once i get caught up maybe i can help write some code or some tests at least
pmichaud that would be excellent.
jnthn Indeed.
moritz_ that would be great
[particle] make it a resolution ;) 23:21
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moritz_ if you want to contribute to the test suite, we have a file t/TASKS in the pugs repo which contains way too many things that should be done ;-) 23:22
(and I'm a mere human with a nearly full-time job and a girlfriend ;-)
anyway, I have to go to bed now 23:23
xuser girlfriends slows humanity 23:25
Tene Who moderates p6l? 23:28
eric256 adds rakudo.org to his Viigo account ;) there now i can read about it on the bus in the morning ;) 23:31
pmichaud there's also twitter.com/rakudoperl, if you follow twitter 23:32
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[particle] tene: ask, i believe 23:32
pmichaud I think there's a contact address for the mailing lists. 23:33
[particle] hrmm, where's the index page for spec.pugscode.org? 23:37
i'd like to add S19 there
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ruoso Hello! 23:42
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ruoso is TimToady back already? 23:45
eric256 watches parrot compile...should warnings during this worry me? 23:53
pmichaud eric256: probably not.
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eric256 hehe running perl6 on the command line 23:58
that was a lot less painless than 18months ago
Tene more painful?
eric256 lmao opps err more painless or less painfull 23:59
hehe
moritz_: my t/ doesn't have a TASKS
oh woops you said in the pugs repo

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