»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
neewbie hello 00:02
I have a question, can somebody explain this to me? I did not understand how this operation worked. I know that xx repeats the list. gist.github.com/anonymous/e4cbffe7...eac6693419 00:05
thanks in advance
AlexDaniel neewbie: well, it's basically <a b c> X <a b c> 00:08
the docs for X are here: docs.perl6.org/language/operators#...t_operator 00:09
neewbie [X] is the same as [+] in this case?
AlexDaniel yea
neewbie thank you =D
AlexDaniel you can put any infix op inside []
m: say [gcd] 20, 48, 90 00:10
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«2␤»
AlexDaniel | is not needed there though 00:11
neewbie what | do?
[infix] is like a foldr, right?
AlexDaniel m: my $x = (2, 5, 8); .say for $x 00:12
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(2 5 8)␤»
AlexDaniel m: my $x = (2, 5, 8); .say for |$x
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«2␤5␤8␤»
neewbie | extract from the list? 00:13
and why can you use .say ? i don't understand why can you call a function from nothing is like the $_ inside the for loop? 00:14
Geth oc: bbae187a35 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6
Missing comma
AlexDaniel neewbie: yes, .say is basically $_.say
gfldex neewbie: see docs.perl6.org/type/Slip 00:15
neewbie but is not inside a loop,
><
AlexDaniel why not? 00:16
m: my $x = (2, 5, 8); for |$x { .say }
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«2␤5␤8␤»
AlexDaniel m: my $x = (2, 5, 8); .say for |$x
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«2␤5␤8␤»
AlexDaniel same thing
neewbie .-.
AlexDaniel neewbie: statement modifiers are mentioned here I think: docs.perl6.org/language/control#if 00:17
neewbie thanks gfldex and alexdaniel 00:18
I'll study more
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xyz_ neewbie: I think [] is more like foldl. 00:23
rakudo: sub infix:<op>($a, $b) { "($a + $b)" }; [op] ^10 00:24
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Useless use of [op] in sink context␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> 3sub infix:<op>($a, $b) { "($a + $b)" }; 7⏏5[op] ^10␤»
00:24 AlexDaniel left
xyz_ sub infix:<op>($a, $b) { "($a + $b)" }; say [op] ^10 00:24
rakudo: sub infix:<op>($a, $b) { "($a + $b)" }; say [op] ^10
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(((((((((0 + 1) + 2) + 3) + 4) + 5) + 6) + 7) + 8) + 9)␤»
00:25 labster joined
timotimo it depends on what operator you use 00:25
we have left associative and right associative operators
and [] uses that
m: sub infix:<op>($a, $b) is assoc('right') { "($a + $b)" }; say [op] ^10
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(0 + (1 + (2 + (3 + (4 + (5 + (6 + (7 + (8 + 9)))))))))␤»
timotimo see?
neewbie so complex 00:27
hartenfels m: sub infix:<op>(*@xs) is assoc<list> { "(@xs[])" }; say [op] ^10 00:29
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)␤»
hartenfels Oh neat that DWIMs too.
00:38 bwisti left
timotimo anvaka.github.io/common-words/#?lang=pl 00:44
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neewbie cool 01:00
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sammers hi #perl6 01:07
m: (1..4) ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort; 01:08
camelia ( no output )
sammers m: (1..4) ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort ==> say();
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix ==> instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3(1..4) ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort ==>7⏏5 say();␤»
sammers m: (1..4) ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort() ==> say();
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(2 3 4)␤»
xyz_ timotimo: Why is "Xi" an often-used word?
sammers m: (1..4) ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort() ==> say;
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &say to refer to the function as a noun␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3 ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }…»
sammers why can't I end that feed with say without ()? 01:09
m: (1..4) ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort;
camelia ( no output )
sammers m: my @a = ((1..4) ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort); say @a;
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«[2 3 4]␤»
sammers m: (1..4) ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort() ==> say;
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &say to refer to the function as a noun␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3 ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }…»
sammers m: (1..4) ==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort() ==> &say;
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Sorry, do not know how to handle this case of a feed operator yet.␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3==> grep({ $_ >=2 }) ==> sort() ==> &say7⏏5;␤»
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sammers xyz_, click on Xi and you can see some of the stats 01:21
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xyz_ sammers: OK, "$Xi" is used in a Perl file distributed with OpenSSL. That makes sense. :-) 01:25
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sammers timotimo, thanks for sharing that link. 01:40
xyz_, the most commonly used term for .go files is err 01:42
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kupopo I'm having the darnedest time finding documentation on regex/grammar character classes - docs.perl6.org/language/regexes doesn't really clarify the grammar for character classes at all. How can I express (from P5) [^] ]? 01:58
(i.e. anything other than whitespace or a close bracket)
brokenchicken kupopo: <-[\]]> 01:59
kupopo: oh, wait that also excludes space right? 02:00
m: say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g/<-[\]\ ]>+/
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(｢foo｣ ｢bar｣)␤»
brokenchicken m: say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g/<-[\] ]>+/
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(｢foo｣ ｢ bar｣)␤»
brokenchicken expected for that to either work or warn :( 02:01
m: say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g/<-[] ]>+/
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in metachar:sym<assert>; couldn't find final '>' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g/<-[] 7⏏5]>+/␤»
brokenchicken right, so <-[\]\ ]>
<-[]> is the [^] and stuff inside is the stuff you're excluding
kupopo: also, I can recommend filing an github.com/perl6/doc Issue saying you couldn' 02:02
t find this info or whatever
kupopo Thanks - for whatever reason I was under the impression that escaping didn't work in that context. Will do. 02:03
brokenchicken kupopo: I see it mentioned here: docs.perl6.org/language/regexes.ht...and_ranges 02:04
though it took me a minute to find that myself.... and I knew what to look for :(
m: say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g/<-[\c[RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET]\c[SPACE]]>+/ 02:07
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(｢foo｣ ｢bar｣)␤»
brokenchicken neat
m: say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g/<-[ \c[RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET] \c[SPACE] ]>+/
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(｢foo｣ ｢bar｣)␤»
brokenchicken ah, k, I see why it's good that space doesn't work
*doesn't warn
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kupopo All I see is "You are also allowed to write the backslashed forms for character classes between the [ ] ." 02:09
And \] is not what I could call a "backslashed form for a character class", so it was a little misleading. Filed github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1146
m: say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:gs/<-[] ]>+/ 02:10
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in metachar:sym<assert>; couldn't find final '>' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:gs/<-[] 7⏏5]>+/␤»
kupopo m: say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g:s/<-[] ]>+/ 02:11
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in metachar:sym<assert>; couldn't find final '>' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g:s/<-[] 7⏏5]>+/␤»
kupopo m: say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g:s/<-[\] ]>+/
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(｢foo｣ ｢ bar｣)␤»
brokenchicken need to escape space too
or use \s if you want any whitespace
kupopo Odd, I had assumed the space was just eaten, so adding :s adverb would solve it
er, : s
brokenchicken It is just eaten
Oh 02:12
hm
kupopo So :sigspace only applies to outside character classes?
m: say 'foo] bar' ~~ m:g:s/ <-[\] ]>+/
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(｢foo｣ ｢ bar｣)␤»
brokenchicken I'll file a bug report for that one and have someone take a look if it's supposed to be that way
kupopo I must be using :sigspace wrong... 02:13
brokenchicken kupopo: or it's a bug :P
m: say " " ~~ m:s/<-[ ]>/
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Iteration past end of iterator␤»
brokenchicken fun :)
Ticket rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130586 02:16
kupopo gotcha 02:17
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haxmeister is padre still maintained? 04:04
agentzh can i open a file handle on a Perl 6 string? Like in Perl 5: open my $in, "<", \$str ? 04:05
dj_goku agentzh: docs.perl6.org/language/io and 04:22
agentzh dj_goku: i read through that file but see no reference on opening a pseudo file from a perl 6 string buffer instead of from the file system. 04:26
dj_goku: am i missing something obvious here? thanks
dj_goku I am confused on why you want to open a file handle on a string? 04:30
sammers agentzh, I don't think this is possible in p6 04:31
BenGoldberg In perl6, file handles are just objects. So if it doesn't yet exist, you can simply write a class which does what you want. 04:34
[Coke] haxmeister: I don't think so; last release was 2013 or so
haxmeister ok thank you [Coke] ..
[Coke] agentzh: pretty sure that's already in the ecosystem.
agentzh thanks for your answers! 04:35
[Coke] see IO::String and IO::Blob
agentzh ah, interesting. thanks
BenGoldberg m: my $foo = 'abc'; (my $fh = IO::String.new).open( $foo, :bind ); $fh.print: "def"; $foo.say; 04:40
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&String'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: use IO::String; my $foo = 'abc'; (my $fh = IO::String.new).open( $foo, :bind ); $fh.print: "def"; $foo.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find IO::String at line 1 in:␤ /home/camelia/.perl6␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤ CompUnit::Re…»
BenGoldberg wonders why .open in IO::String doesn't return self 04:42
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sammers m: use Test; is ((1..5) ==> grep({$_ > 2}) ==> all()), all(3, 4, 5), "test all"; 06:34
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - test all␤␤# Failed test 'test all'␤# at <tmp> line 1␤# expected: all(3, 4, 5)␤# got: all(3, 4, 5)␤»
sammers hmm
m: use Test; is ((1..5) ==> grep({$_ > 2}) ==> all()), (3|4|5), "test all"; 06:36
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«ok 1 - test all␤»
AlexDaniel sammers: well, it should be (3&4&5) 06:40
and that will give the same output…
expected: all(3, 4, 5) got: all(3, 4, 5)
:|
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sammers what is the difference between (3|4|5) and (3&4&5)? 06:43
m: (3&4&5).WHAT
camelia ( no output )
timotimo m: say 4 == (3&4&5)
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«all(False, True, False)␤»
sammers m: say (3&4&5).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(Junction)␤»
timotimo m: say so 4 == (3&4&5)
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«False␤»
timotimo m: say 4 == (3|4|5)
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«any(False, True, False)␤»
timotimo m: say so 4 == (3|4|5)
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«True␤»
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sammers ok, on this example, is test evaluating expected as a string? 06:45
m: use Test; is ((1..5) ==> grep({$_ > 2}) ==> all()), all(3, 4, 5), "test all";
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - test all␤␤# Failed test 'test all'␤# at <tmp> line 1␤# expected: all(3, 4, 5)␤# got: all(3, 4, 5)␤»
sammers what does that mean?
timotimo m: use Test; is all(1, 2, 3), all(1, 2, 3), "junk" 06:46
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - junk␤␤# Failed test 'junk'␤# at <tmp> line 1␤# expected: all(1, 2, 3)␤# got: all(1, 2, 3)␤»
timotimo m: use Test; ok all(1, 2, 3) eqv all(1, 2, 3), "junk" 06:47
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - junk␤␤# Failed test 'junk'␤# at <tmp> line 1␤»
timotimo it's applying the comparison operation to the junction and it autothreads
the problem is: not all of 1, 2, and 3 equals all of 1, 2, and 3
because each of 1, 2, and 3 has 2 in the other junction that it doesn't equal
sammers ah, ok 06:49
timotimo by 2 i mean "two of the other values"
have you had a look at the roast tests for junctions to see how they deal with that? 06:50
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sammers on that feed operator, the docs say " it is often required that you call with parentheses (though this is not required for the very last routine/method)." but if you remove the last () from all() like this, 'use Test; is ((1..5) ==> grep({$_ > 2}) ==> all), (3|4|5), "test all";' there is a compile error. 06:51
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timotimo that's an example from the docs? that's bad :) 06:51
sammers the example ends on sort 06:52
but it fails with say
print, printf, one, etc. 06:53
docs.perl6.org/language/operators#...entry-feed
this works: 06:54
m: <people of earth> ==> map({ .tc }) ==> grep /<[PE]>/ ==> sort
camelia ( no output )
sammers this fails:
m: <people of earth> ==> map({ .tc }) ==> grep /<[PE]>/ ==> say
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3> map({ .tc }) ==> grep /<[PE]>/ ==> say7⏏5<EOL>␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or u…»
sammers timtomo, I should note, the any() test is nothing of signifigance, just testing out odd cases 06:58
moritz m: <people of earth> ==> map({ .tc }) ==> grep /<[PE]>/ ==> say()
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«(People Earth)␤»
sammers right 06:59
moritz, that works fine, but the docs say the final sub/method can ommit the ()
it fails on any, all, one, say, print, printf, etc. so I think the docs are wrong or ()-less support hasn't been added to those methods yet? 07:00
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moritz m: <people of earth> ==> map({ .tc }) ==> grep /<[PE]>/ ==> say; 07:02
camelia rakudo-moar 1aeea1: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &say to refer to the function as a noun␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3> map({ .tc }) ==> g…»
moritz sammers: not sure which one; in doubt I'd change the docs, because it's easier than changing the parser :-) 07:03
sammers timotimo, I will take a look through github.com/perl6/roast/tree/master...-junctions
thanks
ha
moritz, ok, is there somewhere I can find out the intended use? I would like to contribute if possible here. 07:04
I can update the docs, but if this is "supposed" to work then maybe I can add a note about how this isn't implemented for all subs / methods yet. 07:05
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moritz sammers: I guess this is a corner case nobody thought of before, so you'll most likely find nothing in the design docs 08:08
sammers moritz: should I add this to RT just to capture it somewhere? 08:11
moritz sammers: your choice 08:12
sammers ok, I will put something together 08:13
is it possible to test for the SORRY compile errors?
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sammers nevermind 08:16
moritz X::Comp
sammers thanks 08:22
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kalkin- hi #perl6 11:03
DrForr Afternoon. 11:04
11:08 Vynce left 11:11 sftp joined
araraloren Good evening~~ 11:11
11:12 Ven left
kalkin- m: use IO::Socket::SSL; IO::Socket::SSL.new(:host(<jabber.org>), :5222port); 11:13
camelia rakudo-moar c9a9bc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find IO::Socket::SSL at line 1 in:␤ /home/camelia/.perl6␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤ CompUni…»
kalkin- couldn't camelia use some outside modules? Or am i calling the wrong bot?
11:14 darutoko joined
kalkin- I want to do this: perl6 -MIO::Socket::SSL -e "IO::Socket::SSL.new(:host(<jabber.org>), :5222port)" 11:14
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AlexDaniel star: use IO::Socket::SSL; IO::Socket::SSL.new(:host(<jabber.org>), :5222port); 11:18
camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find IO::Socket::SSL at line 1 in:␤ /home/camelia/.perl6␤ /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/site␤ /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/vendor␤ /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6␤ CompUnit::Repository…»
kalkin- basically IO::Socket::SSL && OpenSSL module try to connect to servers via obsolete and insecure SSLv3. Which of course doesn't work with modern servers supporting only ≥ TLSv1 like XMPP servers 11:19
I tried hardcoding in IO::Socket::SSL code the version via OpenSSL.new: :version(1.2), but still the same error
this is the error: err code: 336130315 11:20
error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number
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parv thanks to the ones responsible for adding & publicizing the irc log. 11:23
timotimo that's moritz
parv ok
thank you moritz (for the irc logs) 11:24
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raschipi parv: say it like this: moritz++ 11:25
parv ok then. 11:26
raschipi One day we will get around summing up people's karma in the channel.
sammers m: dd [ $*VM.version, $*PERL.compiler.version ]
camelia rakudo-moar c9a9bc: OUTPUT«[v2016.12.113.gd.1.da.1.ba, v2016.12.389.gc.9.a.9.bc.8]␤»
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kalkin- .ask sergot can you please glance at io-socket-ssl/#17? any hints how I can fix this issue and submit a PR back would be great! 11:29
yoleaux kalkin-: I'll pass your message to sergot.
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AlexDaniel that's not the only irc log of this channel though 11:31
here's anothre one: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...2017-01-19
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kalkin- Hmm I think the SSLv3 issue is coming from the OpenSSL module 11:36
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kalkin- Even when there is a commit saying Don't use SSLv3 for tests, you may be want to test it with a server don't supporting SSLv3 as fall back. (github.com/sergot/openssl/commit/4...4899bc2e0) 11:38
I don't want to panic, but this is a pretty heavy security issue
parv AlexDaniel, what do you mean (as colbati.org link is also listed in the topic)? 11:39
*colabti.org
AlexDaniel which topic? 11:40
parv AlexDaniel, this irc channel topic.
AlexDaniel parv: ah, yea
though I'm not sure who is running it 11:41
feb ?
AlexDaniel has no idea who that is
parv later people; see you soon ... 11:42
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moritz I can't remember either; they asked once if it was OK to use the CSS from "my" logger, which is why they look a bit similar 11:43
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timotimo engineering.instagram.com/dismissi...ca40b29172 - near the end they talk about how they had to patch python so that it doesn't clean up all gc-managed memory at process termination. moar is already doing it like that by default :) 11:45
jnthn I'm guessing Python probably can't be patched like that in general. 11:48
Since folks will have code relying on it
timotimo potentially, yeah
jnthn One of the reasons that we are so unwilling to promise anything along these lines in Moar
timotimo it's good that we don't guarantee DESTROY to be run at process termination
yep
jnthn Yes, I didn't want to tie our hands on GC algorithm choices for decades to come :)
11:53 xtreak left
brokenchicken kalkin-: what's the security issue? 11:53
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kalkin- brokenchicken: using SSLv3 11:58
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kalkin- brokenchicken: If you do OpenSSL.new(:client) and try to connect to something it will use SSLv3 instead of the more modern ones. If you try to enforce the version if will fail with the above mentioned error 11:59
raschipi yuck. 12:00
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kalkin- github.com/sergot/openssl/commit/4...c4899bc2e0 ← this commit says Don't use SSLv3 for tests, but it still does, but now silently 12:01
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kalkin- If I havent started reworking Net::XMPP no one would have noticed for some time. (XMPP Servers enforce use of TLS) 12:01
star: try use OpenSSL; 12:02
camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find OpenSSL at line 1 in:␤ /home/camelia/.perl6␤ /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/site␤ /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/vendor␤ /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6␤ CompUnit::Repository::Absolu…»
brokenchicken I see by default it's using: $method = try {$client ?? OpenSSL::Method::TLSv1_2_client_method() !! OpenSSL::Method::TLSv1_2_server_method()} || try {$client ?? OpenSSL::Method::TLSv1_client_method() !! OpenSSL::Method::TLSv1_server_method()} ;
12:02 bjz left
kalkin- brokenchicken: try that: perl6 -MIO::Socket::SSL -e "IO::Socket::SSL.new(:host(<jabber.org>), :5222port)" 12:03
IO::Socket::SSL uses in background OpenSSL.new(:client) which should use the mentioned default method, but the error says other wise
raschipi If that's the version it uses be default, it also won't work be default, since clients don't accept SSl anymore, it's all TLS. 12:04
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kalkin- raschipi: ? as far as i understand the code by default it should use TLS? 12:05
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kalkin- or am I misunderstanding something? 12:07
brokenchicken kalkin-: well, I copy-pasted the code it uses by default.
Maybe before you start claiming security issues you should double check the problem is where you think it is :)
kalkin- brokenchicken: yes and it should use TLS, right? there is no mentioning of SSLv3_client_method? 12:08
brokenchicken: or am I blind?
kalkin- is completely confused 12:09
brokenchicken I'm saying find out if it's actually using SSLv# 12:10
The error suggests to me it's jabber that's using it and the module craps out saying wrong version
kalkin- brokenchicken: ohh I did my homework xmpp.net/result.php?domain=jabber....client#tls look at the table 12:11
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kalkin- SSLv2 No, SSLv3 No 12:11
:)
moritz kalkin-: ok, start from the beginning. What have you found that makes you think there's a security problem, and how would an attacker exploit it? 12:12
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kalkin- moritz: SSLv3 is considered to be vulnerable and shouldn't be used. There're multiple different attacks on it i.e. POODLE. This is the reason the XMPP community started to migrate to TLS only connections 12:15
an attacker can read your encrypted connection when using SSLv3(?)
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kalkin- may be some one more knowledgeable than me can expand on it, but there are reasons that you should use ≥ TLSv1 12:17
Also the applied crypto hardening guide recommends disabling SSLv3 bettercrypto.org/static/applied-cr...dening.pdf 12:18
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moritz kalkin-: so have you observed an SSLv3 connection being issued by the OpenSSL module? 12:18
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kalkin- moritz: that's my interpretation of the error following this code perl6 -MIO::Socket::SSL -e "IO::Socket::SSL.new(:host(<jabber.org>), :5222port)" 12:20
Hmm may be I was too tired yesterday evening and misunderstood the error? let me research it again
brokenchicken karlkin- your gomework url reports for hermes2.jabber.org but in your code yoy're connecting to just jabber.org... are they the same? 12:21
moritz kalkin-: if you got an error, it seems that no connection was opened, right?
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timotimo ideally you'd follow the appropriate SRV record 12:21
which i'm not sure how you'd do currently in rakudo/moar 12:22
kalkin- timotimo: not at all, besides using Net::DNS
brokenchicken: yes., try hermes2.jabber.org same issue
brokenchicken I'm not at a computer right now. 12:23
kalkin- Ohh I'm stupid
brokenchicken Try some other server?
kalkin- It's XMPP if you don't use legacy SSL/TLS only 5223 port, you need to signal that you want to use TLS on 5222 because of legacy reasons 12:24
raschipi brokenchicken: How do you use IRC without a computer? Do you have a telepathy bridge?
kalkin- of course it works if you try to connect to 5223
*facepalm* 12:25
brokenchicken raschipi, or a phone?
kalkin- sorry for annoying you guys
raschipi brokenchicken: That's a computer.
moritz phones these days really are computers.
brokenchicken kalkin-, it's fine. Glad there aren't any issues.
lizmat m: say "\c[man facepalming]" # :-) 12:26
camelia rakudo-moar c9a9bc: OUTPUT«🤦‍♂️␤»
moritz m: say "\c[woman facepalming]"
camelia rakudo-moar c9a9bc: OUTPUT«🤦‍♀️␤»
moritz just to be on the safe side :-)
kalkin- hmm, linux libertine doesn't support it. I see a square + gender symbol :)
lizmat moritz++ :-)
moritz m: say "\c[genderless person facepalming]"
camelia rakudo-moar c9a9bc: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unrecognized character name genderless person facepalming␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "\c[genderless person facepalming7⏏5]"␤»
kalkin- moritz: who are to assume my gender is binary! :D 12:27
moritz a stastically well-versed person, of course :-)
12:27 Ven left
ilmari m: say "\c[face palm]" 12:27
camelia rakudo-moar c9a9bc: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unrecognized character name face palm␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "\c[face palm7⏏5]"␤»
ilmari huh, that is the unicode character name 12:28
m: say "\c[FACE PALM]"
camelia rakudo-moar c9a9bc: OUTPUT«🤦␤»
ilmari ah
case matters
moritz ilmari: you need to SCREAM to be heard :-)
brokenchicken weird that it does there
kalkin- hmm github facepalm man and women both look the same. but i guess there're man with long hair to.
brokenchicken m: "\c[MAN FACEPALMING]" 12:29
camelia rakudo-moar c9a9bc: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unrecognized character name MAN FACEPALMING␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3"\c[MAN FACEPALMING7⏏5]"␤»
brokenchicken so zws are lowercase but normal stuff is uppercase? 12:30
moritz that's weird
should be both case insensitive, if you ask me
or both uppercase
brokenchicken +1
moritz samcv: ^^
12:31 cognominal left
ilmari unicode probably has an opinion on that 12:32
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kalkin- .tell sergot never mind my previous message. my bad 12:33
yoleaux kalkin-: I'll pass your message to sergot.
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jnthn moritz: I believe that codepoint names being uppercase and sequence names being lowercase is part of the mechanism for avoiding conflicts between the two :) 12:58
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jnthn Also, iirc, the Unicode data files have them that way (uppercsae for codepoint names, lowercase for sequence names) 12:59
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azawawi hi #perl6 13:13
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moritz \o azawawi 13:15
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lizmat azawawi o/ 13:28
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azawawi :) 13:29
araraloren :)
azawawi starts working on GTK::Simple 13:30
raschipi azawawi: What else is there in the GTK:: namespace?
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raschipi Oh, there's GTK::Simpler 13:32
tadzik :o
araraloren Is GTK::Simpler replaced GTK::Simple ?
jnthn Doubt it
iirc it's built upon it 13:33
timotimo i haven't heard of GTK::Simpler yet
tadzik I like the idea
from the synopsis example
jnthn GTK::Simple maybe shoulda just been called GTK:: :)
brokenchicken starts working on GTK::Simplest
tadzik GTK::ColonColon
jnthn oops
azawawi GTK::Simplest next :)
raschipi I think it's because it doesn't expose full functionality.
araraloren Oh, It said `This module provides a simpler API for GTK::Simple`
jnthn GTK :)
tadzik GTK::Harder, GTK::Better, GTK::Faster, GTK::Stronger 13:34
brokenchicken
.oO( GTK::Scooter )
raschipi GTK::Stronk
araraloren GTK::Best
timotimo so GTK:: is kind of like GTK--
jnthn The history was approximately: jnthn takes long train trip to give a talk, wants to show off how supplies are great for dealing with UI events, writes a tiny bit of GTK support, and picks GTK::Simple as a name. 13:35
azawawi timotimo: a quick question, why did we need to do this github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit...528904976?
timotimo azawawi: panda throws a hissy fit when the files that are referenced in resources in the meta6 file aren't there 13:36
jnthn I then handed it off for others to care for, because building/maintaining a UI binding library is the last thing I had time for, but the name GTK::Simple lived on :-)
azawawi There is also GTK::Scintilla github.com/azawawi/perl6-gtk-scintilla :)
jnthn By now it covers a lot of GTK, iirc :)
azawawi timotimo: we're deprecating panda right?
tadzik there are 16 modules with ::Simple in the ecosystem
raschipi GTK::baroque GTK::byzantine GTK::convoluted GTK::daedal GTK::elaborate GTK::intricate GTK::involute GTK::involved GTK::knotty GTK::labyrinthian GTK::sophisticated GTK::tangled 13:37
araraloren They are GTK family 13:38
jnthn Next time I'll call my same code GTK::ForHell'sSakeChangeThis :)
*sample
Anyway, (everyone who carried it forward)++ :)
brokenchicken azawawi: from Rakudo Star yes. But as a piece of software... it's just a third-party distro like any other
timotimo GTK::SoonToBeDeprecated 13:39
brokenchicken buggable: eco ::Simple
buggable brokenchicken, Found 5 results: HTTP::Server::Simple, IO::Capture::Simple, LWP::Simple, Grammar::Profiler::Simple, Email::Simple. See modules.perl6.org/#q=%3A%3ASimple
brokenchicken
.oO( bug... )
azawawi brokenchicken: thx
tadzik jnthn: GTK::Sample is not bad either :)
jnthn Ecosystem::Query::Bots::Are::Simple :)
tadzik: Hah, didn't think of that :)
azawawi timotimo: writing a comment there :)
13:40 buggable left 13:41 buggable joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v buggable
brokenchicken buggable: eco ::Simple 13:41
buggable brokenchicken, Found 16 results: HTTP::Server::Simple, IO::Capture::Simple, LWP::Simple, Grammar::Profiler::Simple, Email::Simple. See modules.perl6.org/#q=%3A%3ASimple
raschipi Yay!
13:42 agentzh joined
raschipi buggable: eco dialog 13:43
buggable raschipi, Inform 'Easy to use GUI Dialog box using GTK3 label, button, entry widgets': github.com/finanalyst/p6-inform
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raschipi A dialog-like module should be included in *. 13:46
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brokenchicken Yes! Finally! Improve git blame on gitHub! 13:49
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brokenchicken github.com/blog/2304-navigate-file...blame-view 13:50
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brokenchicken heh, though using that feature leaves github in wide-view mode even if you switch to other pages :} 13:52
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azawawi re github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/pull/74 . Please review. 14:12
brokenchicken Geth: help 14:14
Geth brokenchicken, Source at github.com/perl6/geth To add repo, add an 'application/json' webhook on GitHub pointing it to geth.perl6.party/?chan=#perl6 and choose 'Send me everything' for events to send | use `ver URL to commit` to fetch version bump changes
brokenchicken azawawi: I would recommend using AUTHOR_TESTING var 14:16
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brokenchicken azawawi: it's the one used by Test::When, which in turn follows Lancaster Consensus followed by Perl 5 14:17
github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Test-When#author
github.com/Perl-Toolchain-Gang/too...g-contexts
azawawi reads 14:19
brokenchicken: i used to use "AUTHOR_TESTING" until Test::META suggested otherwise
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brokenchicken :S 14:19
I'll open an issue on it 14:20
azawawi brokenchicken++
14:21 agentzh left
azawawi brokenchicken: Guideliness vs rules (Pirates of the Caribbean) www.imdb.com/title/tt0325980/quotes...=qt0416731 :) 14:24
timotimo heh heh. 14:26
parlay!
azawawi lol
travis ci: Investigating - We’re currently investigating an issue affecting `sudo: required` builds for both public and private repositories ... Oh well 14:27
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brokenchicken They have code on Pirates of Caribbean? 14:28
Wonder if it's perl....
azawawi Packing & going home. Have a nice weekend everyone :)
timotimo they run the Black Perl distribution
azawawi Black Perl :)
DrForr timotimo++ # beat me to it.
azawawi you know it is a good name for rakudo star (for marketing that is) :) 14:29
timotimo we can call it that when it's really, really, really god damn fast 14:30
brokenchicken guessing black perl is the ship?
DrForr No, it's Perl Poetry.
14:31 Ven joined
timotimo Perl Pottery? 14:32
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AlexDaniel “should be both case insensitive, if you ask me” 14:33
if I recall correctly, samcv is aware of that
finanalyst @search senlin ascends
brokenchicken finanalyst: this is a warez-free network 14:34
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finanalyst brokenchicken: I know. sigh! this happens because of lags. i thought i had solved it. hand head in shame 14:36
brokenchicken that book is like $5, bruh 14:37
finanalyst just found it on smashwords. thinking about it.
not the price, the review
actually, 2.99 14:38
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AlexDaniel hmm, looking at stackoverflow.com/questions/41689023 14:43
14:43 Ven left
AlexDaniel why don't we provide some sort of unicode brackets for substr 14:44
$foo｢5..8｣ hmm
brokenchicken hopes this won't segue into "let's add some weird brackets into core for string indexing" :P 14:45
AlexDaniel
.oO( why not? )
 14:46
brokenchicken Stop adding stuff!
14:46 lizmat joined
brokenchicken :) 14:46
AlexDaniel why
brokenchicken Make a module
AlexDaniel meh
same thing could've been said about most of the features 14:47
brokenchicken Yup. 14:48
AlexDaniel but really, typing out .substr(…, 1) is really annoying when all you need is just one char
araraloren You can made one for yourself ~~ 14:49
jnthn If you're doing it that often in a given bit of code, just define a sub/operator for it
brokenchicken Like defaults based on :U the decision was for that to be a module first before it being included in core.
So it could be tried out in the wild before being commited to whatever impl was cooked up first.
arnsholt jnthn: Semi-random question: Can we specify a special-cased implementation for a particular signature of a metaop? 14:50
araraloren Make a module is a good idea. Perl6 already has a lot of feature, so many feature ..
brokenchicken Or the superscript powers. That too was a module first, before we added it to core.
arnsholt Like special-casing [+] when applied to a List[Num]?
brokenchicken [+] is already special cased to .sum 14:51
AlexDaniel brokenchicken: hmm what was the module, by the way?
brokenchicken AlexDaniel: for powers?
AlexDaniel yes
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brokenchicken AlexDaniel: Operators::Math::Superscripts 14:52
jnthn arnsholt: Umm...don't think we can at the moment.
brokenchicken AlexDaniel: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Operat...perscripts
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jnthn arnsholt: Though lizmat++ just refactored that bunch so probably knows best by this point :) 14:53
AlexDaniel brokenchicken: and how many people used this module?
jnthn arnsholt: The answer before the refactor woulda been "only if you're lucky and the accientally-exposed META_FOO function was a multi"...
brokenchicken AlexDaniel: I don't have any statistics
AlexDaniel personally I don't buy it in this case. I'd much rather not introduce a dependency in my code just for more convenient char indexing.
so creating a module for something that basic is… meh 14:54
but whatever
brokenchicken AlexDaniel: but you rather make extra maintenance for core devs and buy Perl6 into supporting a possibly poorly-designed feature essentially forever?
jnthn m: sub c($s, $i) { $s.substr($i, 1) }; say c("foo", 1)
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«o␤»
jnthn AlexDaniel: Don't take a dependency on it, just write the one line sub in your code 14:55
AlexDaniel yeah, and make anybody reading this code wonder wtf c is
brokenchicken AlexDaniel: what I'm not buying is "extra dependency" nonsense.
We support modules exactly for this reason.
jnthn AlexDaniel: Umm...that degenerates to "never define a subroutine, people won't know what the name is" :P
AlexDaniel jnthn: nope, it's just not worth it in this case 14:56
brokenchicken heh
jnthn Then it's not worth making it shorter than .sbustr($i, 1) either :P
brokenchicken Meaning .substr() isn't a pain to type after all
AlexDaniel we don't want to introduce another feature – fine, whatever. But don't say that a module will help, it won't
14:56 lizmat left
brokenchicken AlexDaniel: sure it will. It can provide a trial implementation to find any flaws with it without any commitments for support. And if enough people think the module's a good idea it's a good argument for inclusion into core. 14:57
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brokenchicken For example, you showed ｢5..8｣ but we use ｢...｣ for "no interpretation there whatever" quoters... so now it's confusing for beginners to have same quoters used for ranges 14:59
etc
14:59 lizmat joined 15:01 g4 left
brokenchicken m: sub postcircumfix:<♥ ♥> (Str $x, Range $y) { $x.substr($y) }; say "meows"♥3..5♥ 15:01
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«ws␤»
15:02 agentzh joined
brokenchicken m: my $mp = "\c[man facepalming]"; my $wp = "\c[woman facepalming]"; (｢sub postcircumfix:<｣ ~ $mp ~ ' ' ~ $wp ~ ｢> (Str $x, Range $y) { $x.substr($y) }; say "meows"｣ ~ $mp ~ '3..5' ~ $wp).EVAL 15:04
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«ws␤»
brokenchicken haha
m: my $mp = "\c[man facepalming]"; my $wp = "\c[woman facepalming]"; (｢sub postcircumfix:<｣ ~ $mp ~ ' ' ~ $wp ~ ｢> (Str $x, Range $y) { $x.substr($y) }; say "meows"｣ ~ $mp ~ '3..5' ~ $wp).say
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«sub postcircumfix:<🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♀️> (Str $x, Range $y) { $x.substr($y) }; say "meows"🤦‍♂️3..5🤦‍♀️␤»
brokenchicken m: sub postcircumfix:<🤦‍♂️ 🤦‍♀️> (Str $x, Range $y) { $x.substr($y) }; say "meows"🤦‍♂️3..5🤦‍♀️ 15:05
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«ws␤»
brokenchicken Doesn't render right of any of my devices, but it works! :)
arnsholt jnthn: Cool! So no need to suggest we do Kahan summation for nums, unless I want to be volunteered into getting that to work first O:) 15:06
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Geth tk-simple/master: 4 commits pushed by jonathanstowe++ 15:11
15:11 kyan left
brokenchicken m: constant &term:("\c[BLACK HEART SUIT]") = &die; ♥ 15:12
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Missing initializer on constant declaration␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3constant &term7⏏5:("\c[BLACK HEART SUIT]") = &die; ♥␤»
brokenchicken Is there a way to use the char name like that in term definition?
instead of the actual one
m: sub term:«\c[BLACK HEART SUIT]» { die }; ♥ 15:13
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«Died␤ in sub term:<♥> at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken Oh, seems to be something to do with constants
m: constant &term:«\c[BLACK HEART SUIT]» = &die ; ♥
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Bogus statement␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3nt &term:«\c[BLACK HEART SUIT]» = &die ;7⏏5 ♥␤ expecting any of:␤ prefix␤ term␤»
Geth tk-simple: aaf2b11c5c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 4 files
s:g/TEST_AUTHOR/AUTHOR_TESTING/
 15:17
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brokenchicken m: sub term:«\c[man facepalming]» { die |@_ }; "\c[man facepalming] 'w00t awesome!'".EVAL 15:21
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /home/camelia/EVAL_0␤Two terms in a row␤at /home/camelia/EVAL_0:1␤------> 3🤦‍♂️7⏏5 'w00t awesome!'␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ …»
brokenchicken hm how come? 15:22
ah
m: sub prefix:«\c[man facepalming]» { die |@_ }; "\c[man facepalming] 'w00t awesome!'".EVAL
camelia rakudo-moar 7ef368: OUTPUT«w00t awesome!␤ in sub prefix:<🤦‍♂️> at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at EVAL_0 line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken \o/
.oO( make a language entirely out of ZWS Emoji... )
 15:28
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brokenchicken heh, it's weird they got all kinds of these sports emojis, but none for "playing videogames" or "reading a book" or anything that doesn't involve sweat and balls.... 15:31
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brokenchicken m: " 👯‍♀️".uninames.say 15:32
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(SPACE WOMAN WITH BUNNY EARS ZERO WIDTH JOINER FEMALE SIGN VARIATION SELECTOR-16)␤»
15:32 agentzh left
brokenchicken don't even know what that one is heh 15:33
"women with bunny ears partying"... ... Who makes these :} 15:34
m: "\c[men with bunny ears partying]"
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant string "👯‍♂️" in sink context (line 1)␤»
brokenchicken m: say "\c[men with bunny ears partying]"
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«👯‍♂️␤»
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araraloren AlexDaniel, a sample for slice `$f[2 : 4]` gist.github.com/araraloren/19bc439...418766204e 15:47
AlexDaniel :S 15:48
using other brackets is probably a good idea 15:49
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brokenchicken m: say join (1, 2, 3): 15:50
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«␤»
perlpilot PDL uses $piddle(2:4) and I'm not so sure "other brackets" is actually better there.
araraloren Here square bracket is suitable . 15:54
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AlexDaniel not at all 16:06
otherwise you'd argue that string concatenation with + should work. Not in perl 6, no, and that's great 16:07
raschipi AlexDaniel: C uses [] to do it.
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AlexDaniel :| 16:07
16:07 kyan joined
perlpilot raschipi: saying "C does it" is not really an argument for anything. :) 16:07
raschipi It will be [$:$], not [$,$] 16:08
I'm just mindstorming.
brokenchicken We should totally add + for concatenation :P
AlexDaniel just pick any other brackets you like
as simple as that
perlpilot why not $string.slice($range)? Why do we need array-ish brackets? 16:09
brokenchicken perlpilot: we already have .substr($range) :(
AlexDaniel substr already works like this, no?
moritz because having a method for it isn't enough line noise
perlpilot oh ... then same question but with substr instead of slice
(though moritz already answer :)
brokenchicken it should really be :) 4:$str:7 16:10
ssh does it!
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brokenchicken m: sub infix:<:> (Int $s, Str $v, Int $e) is assoc("list") { $s.substr: $s..$e }; say 2:"foobar":5 16:13
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Confused␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3oc("list") { $s.substr: $s..$e }; say 2:7⏏5"foobar":5␤ expecting any of:␤ colon pair␤»
brokenchicken m: sub infix:<：> (Int $s, Str $v, Int $e) is assoc("list") { $s.substr: $s..$e }; say 2："foobar"：5
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«Start argument to substr out of range. Is: 2, should be in 0..1; use *-2 if you want to index relative to the end␤ in sub infix:<：> at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken wat
m: sub infix:<：> (Int $s, Str $v, Int $e) is assoc("list") { $v.substr: $s..$e }; say 2："foobar"：5 16:14
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«obar␤»
brokenchicken SHIP IT! :)
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brokenchicken m: sub infix:<🔪> (Int $s, Str $v, Int $e) is assoc("list") { $v.substr: $s..$e }; say 2🔪"foobar"🔪5 16:15
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«obar␤»
16:15 Ven left
brokenchicken hehe 16:15
raschipi u: 🔪 16:16
unicodable6 raschipi, U+1F52A HOCHO [So] (🔪)
brokenchicken better yet: 16:19
m: sub infix:<↦> {$^b.substr: $^a}; sub infix:<↤> {$^a.substr: 0, $^a.chars-$^b}; say 3↦"foobar"; say "foobar"↤4 ~ "x"; say 3↦"foobar"↤1
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«bar␤fox␤ba␤» 16:20
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brokenchicken \o/ 16:20
cale2 is there a perl6 playground? Like a console in the browser?
raschipi cale2: "/msg camelia" 16:21
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perlpilot There's also tryperl6.org, but I don't know if that's been kept up to date. 16:21
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brokenchicken also glot.io 16:25
tryperl6 gives "Process not found"
raschipi It seems tryperl6.org is already under too much load.
16:26 agentzh left
brokenchicken oh booted now... 16:26
runs v2016.05.103.g.7.fabb.57
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cale2 tryperl6 works. It's just a bit slow 16:28
brokenchicken /msg camelia is best 16:29
16:29 Ven left
raschipi camelia: You're the best. 16:30
cale2 I'm thinking that I could almost emulate Elixir entirely using perl6 pipes
===> that type of thing 16:31
"feed operator"
brokenchicken cool
16:31 Ven joined
perlpilot cale2: I think you're a tad optimistic :) 16:31
(only because I think feeds haven't gotten all the love they might need) 16:32
brokenchicken and they're not yet autothreade AFAIK
jnthn woulda thought supply blocks were a more natural way to do actors in Perl 6 16:34
cale2 dang 16:42
I mean, I guess method chaining is similar
but when writing methods that are chainable, you always have to return self, right? 16:43
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perlpilot yep 16:43
16:43 Ven left
cale2 Are feed operators low key methods? 16:43
perlpilot (well ... or some object that will respond to the next method in the chain)
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cale2 Yeah, actually, the feed operator becomes a bit complex with OOP 16:59
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jdv79 wasn't someone working on a p6 version of plack? 17:12
i don't see it in the eco
brokenchicken nope 17:13
You're prolly thinking of github.com/supernovus/perl6-psgi 17:14
hmmm
jnthn Wasn't Crust in this space too?
perlpilot There's also github.com/lopnor/p6-plackdo
brokenchicken Ah, this one github.com/zostay/P6W 17:15
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brokenchicken Maybe I'm misremembering. 17:15
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jdv79 oh my there are many. just hope i don't pick a loser when the shakeout happens 17:19
perlpilot jdv79: Crust would be a good choice IMHO
jdv79 i guess i'm remembering the P6W one since he was talking about remaking psgi/plack to leverage p6's strengths 17:20
yeah, ok
17:22 AlexDaniel left
raschipi .ask TimToady Why did you call patch, patch? 17:23
yoleaux raschipi: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
raschipi www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comm...d_a_patch/
.tell TimToady www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comm...d_a_patch/ 17:24
yoleaux raschipi: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
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gfldex cale2: glot.io/new/perl6 17:37
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TimToady I called it patch because that was already the common term for it in computing, even if patches were generally applied by hand before that. 17:41
yoleaux 17:23Z <raschipi> TimToady: Why did you call patch, patch?
17:24Z <raschipi> TimToady: www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comm...d_a_patch/
17:42 hchienjo left 17:43 Ven left
raschipi Do you know how much older diff is than patch? 17:43
brokenchicken Some of the accepted answers on Perl 6 SO questions really scare me :| stackoverflow.com/questions/4164811...s-of-lists 17:44
and it was smls that wrote it :S 17:45
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raschipi brokenchicken: how weould you do it? 17:48
would*
17:50 Ven joined
TimToady raschipi: no, I only know when patch was written :) 17:50
raschipi Thanks.
ilmari diff was written in the early 1970s, according to wikipedia 17:52
«first shipped with the 5th Edition of Unix in 1974»
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ilmari so people were applying patches manually for over ten years?! 17:52
raschipi ilmari: See the link above: they were applyint them even more manually before that. 17:53
ilmari ah, diff could output ed scripts too
raschipi: yeah, i saw that
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raschipi I would say applying a patch manually was done way before there were any computers, even: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_loom 17:55
TimToady it's an ancient word, and well suited for metaphorical borrowing into tech
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TimToady The word "patch" implies that everything around it was okay, which, when you think about it, reflects the basic optimism that every programmer must feel. :) 18:00
cale2 How does the list.flatten built in not already completely flatten a list?
18:00 Ven left
TimToady doesn't descend into Scalar objects, which means it doesn't flatten Array 18:01
afk &
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raschipi TimToady: as someone who uses patched clothes, it doesn't imply that, no. 18:04
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cale2 So you can write your own version of flatten with multi dispatch 18:09
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brokenchicken raschipi: as an entirely generic answer, I'd go with "I wouldn't". If you got structure, there's a reason for it; and if there's no reason, why is it structured? But the scary part about those answers is all the various sideeffects those solutions have, yet the answerers provide them as equals. the map+slip solution doesn't flatten hashes at all, the $<> thing flattens them into pairs, gather+deepmap+take 18:14
loses the keys entirely and takes only the values, and gather @a».take does same, but will also lose order when we make » actually autothreaded.
Yet the answers all present them as equal solution. And bdfoy who's currently writing a Perl 6 book is even praising the deepmap solution as universal
raschipi Well, it's their data, let them throw it away. 18:15
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brokenchicken What? 18:16
raschipi If I need to perform that transformation, I would use the solution he recommends.
brokenchicken ... and have a bug in your code...
raschipi Why is it a bug? 18:17
brokenchicken Why is it not a bug? 18:18
I just told you the solutions each have different side effects that answers don't bother mentioning and you tell me why is it a bug.
starting with (<a b c>, {x => "y", "z" => 42}) and ending up with (42, "y", "c", "a", "b") looks like a bug to me 18:19
cale2 brokenchicken: for flattening lists, I'm trying to do something like the commented out code here: glot.io/snippets/emc2qo9cqx 18:23
Not sure what kind of guards you can use in perl6 functions though 18:25
brokenchicken cale2: if you mean Lists lists, just use flat 18:26
m: say flat ((4,5,6),("f","z",(1, 3),"n"))
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(4 5 6 f z 1 3 n)␤»
brokenchicken m: say flat ((4,5,6), $["f","z",[1, {x => "y"}, (1...*), 3],"n"])».List 18:29
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(4 5 6 f z 1 {x => y} (...) 3 n)␤»
cale2 brokenchicken: So it doesn't do a deep flatten. I thought the point of Stack Overflow question was that it didn't
18:30 FROGGS joined
cale2 * does 18:30
18:30 Ven joined
brokenchicken cale2: it does. It just doesn't descend into itemized iterables (or whatever the right term is) 18:30
m: say flat ((4,5,6), $["f","z",[1, {x => "y"}, (1...*), 3],"n"])».list 18:31
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(4 5 6 f z [1 {x => y} (...) 3] n)␤»
brokenchicken m: say gather ((4,5,6), $["f","z",[1, {x => "y"}, (1...*), 3],"n"]).deepmap: *.take
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(4 5 6 f z 1 y 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 8…»
brokenchicken ^ another problemw ith .deepmap take 18:32
m: say ((4,5,6), $["f","z",[1, {x => "y"}, (1...*), 3],"n"]).flatmap: *.List 18:34
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(4 5 6 f z 1 {x => y} (...) 3 n)␤»
brokenchicken wrong to: flattens bags into pairs 18:36
There ain't a good generic solution. So best way is to not have the problem :)
m: (1...*).perl 18:37
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«Cannot .elems a lazy list␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken hm...
raschipi brokenchicken: people will program their programs in the way they want, you can't control it. 18:39
stop complaining about baby perl6.
If people have to use "correct solutions", it isn't perl. 18:40
brokenchicken raschipi: it's interesting that your suggestions seem to involve letting evil propagate: sexists remarks -> let the guy clear his head; people giving wrong answers on a popular QA site -> it's their data, let them throw away. 18:41
cale2 raschipi: the result of having "incorrect solutions" on stack overflow is that "babies" will get discouraged and confused, and stop using perl6
raschipi I don't let evil propagate, like I'm doing right now. I'm discussing with you, ain't I? 18:42
brokenchicken You told me to stop complaining
raschipi No, I'm told you it's againt the spirit od the language to complain. 18:43
brokenchicken rolls eyes
m: "
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3"7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ double quotes␤ term␤»
brokenchicken m: "\c[man rolling eyes]"
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unrecognized character name man rolling eyes␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3"\c[man rolling eyes7⏏5]"␤»
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raschipi I was told by TimToady in his book this is how things are, therefore you're also breaking rule 1. 18:44
brokenchicken doesn't mind
cale2 I like the idea perl having baby speak and also eloquent poetry 18:45
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cale2 but a baby doesn't often understand poetry 18:45
perlpilot cale2: I like the reality of it more than the idea ;)
cale2 and a an adult poet doesn't like baby speak 18:46
So keep that in mind when answering stack overflow i guess
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diakopter Perl 6 has been on modulecounts.com for more than a year; it's grown from 460 to 771 modules 18:47
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brokenchicken ...which is still the bottom of the barrel as far as that site's concerned :P 18:48
diakopter during the same timeframe, node/js grew from 220,000 modules to 380,000 18:49
brokenchicken m: say 771/460; say 380000/220000
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«1.676087␤1.727273␤»
brokenchicken that's cause they make a new release for each version or something innit?
+ massive wheel reinvention
18:49 Ven joined
diakopter no, that's not counting versions/releases; that's unique modules 18:50
brokenchicken 459/day... insane 18:51
brokenchicken releases leftpad.pm6 to try to catch up... 18:52
diakopter heheh
mr_ron Noticed the ad for Full Stuck Developer and couldn't resist googling for other work with that specialty www.google.com/#q=%22full+stuck+developer%22 18:54
diakopter they have 300 million package downloads daily
but yes there are plenty of acme-ish things such as www.npmjs.com/package/ifyouwanttog...thatforyou 18:55
mspo I got an email for "full stack" recently 18:58
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raschipi "full stack" means "we don't have a proper I.T. department" 19:05
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agentzh m: my $a = 32; say $a.isa(NumStr); 19:05
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«False␤»
agentzh is this a bug?
brokenchicken nope 19:06
agentzh m: my $a = 32; say $a.does(NumStr);
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«False␤»
brokenchicken agentzh: NumStr is a subclass of both Num and Str. 32 on the other hand is an Int
agentzh brokenchicken: how can i test if an object is a primitive value?
brokenchicken agentzh: unsure what you mean by primitive value
agentzh like Int, Num, Str
unblessed values
and non-container values 19:07
brokenchicken agentzh: hm, they are tho
oh value types I think's the word
agentzh: what are you trying to do tho?
agentzh like in Perl 5: !ref $_
brokenchicken agentzh: yeah, we don't have anything like that
agentzh i'm just writing a generic traversal function.
hartenfels agentzh: How about $thing ~~ Numeric|Stringy? 19:08
agentzh traversing a generic data structure
hartenfels: oh that looks nice if it works :)
thanks, i'll try
seems like i should include Bool here too.
hartenfels True
brokenchicken agentzh: that'll do the trick for numerics and strings, but we also have Cool that can act as either, so... keep that in mind 19:09
agentzh: Bool is Int and so does Numeric
agentzh brokenchicken: oh, good to know!
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agentzh thanks! 19:09
19:09 st_elmo left
brokenchicken agentzh: you've heard of .duckmap, right? A generic traversal function. 19:10
hartenfels m: say * ~~ Numeric|Stringy for 12, 12.0, True, 'hello', [], '/'.IO, {}
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤{ ... }␤{ ... }␤{ ... }␤{ ... }␤{ ... }␤{ ... }␤»
hartenfels Oops
m: say $_ ~~ Numeric|Stringy for 12, 12.0, True, 'hello', [], '/'.IO, {}
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«True␤True␤True␤True␤False␤False␤False␤»
gfldex m: subset Value where Int|Str|Num|Bool; say (1,"1",1/2,True,Hash,Array) »~~» Value;
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(True True False True False False)␤»
gfldex agentzh: ^^^
brokenchicken missing Rat and Complex
and FatRat 19:11
gfldex m: subset Value where Int|Str|Num|Rat|Complex|FatRat|Bool; say (1,"1",1/2,True,Hash,Array) »~~» Value;
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(True True True True False False)␤»
gfldex how about int ?
brokenchicken I think that'll fall under Int
gfldex my int $i = 1; say $i ~~ Int;
m: my int $i = 1; say $i ~~ Int; 19:12
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«True␤»
brokenchicken m: subset Value where Int|Str|Num|Rat|Complex|FatRat|Bool; say (1,"1",1/2,True,Hash,Array, my int $ = 42) »~~» Value;
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(True True True True False False True)␤»
brokenchicken yeah
m: subset Value where Numeric|Stringy; say (1,"1",1/2,True,Hash,Array, my int $ = 42) »~~» Value;
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(True True True True False False True)␤»
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brokenchicken m: subset Value where Numeric|Stringy; (1,"1",1/2,True, [<1>, <42e0>, ("moar stuff",)]).duckmap(-> Value $_ {"some sort of {.^name} value" }).say 19:13
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(some sort of Int value some sort of Str value some sort of Rat value some sort of Bool value [some sort of IntStr value some sort of NumStr value (some sort of Str value)])␤»
brokenchicken agentzh: ^ like that one. We also got a .deepmap 19:14
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brokenchicken Stuff's like IO::Path ain't included in that tho 19:16
and Dateish
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brokenchicken BUT will include enums 19:19
m: enum Meows <a b c>; subset Value where Numeric|Stringy; (1,.5,True, a, Broken, DateTime.now, [42e0, ("moar stuff",)]).duckmap(-> Value $_ {"some sort of {.^name} value" }).say
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(some sort of Int value some sort of Rat value some sort of Bool value some sort of Meows value some sort of PromiseStatus value 2017-01-19T20:19:59.443604+01:00 [some sort of Num value (some sort of Str value)])␤»
agentzh brokenchicken: that's interesting. 19:20
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raschipi What would be the difference between Cool and you subset Value above? 19:23
hartenfels Cool also has Array and Hash. 19:24
brokenchicken m: subset Value where Numeric|Stringy; say [] but Numeric ~~ Value
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«True␤»
brokenchicken You can also cheat like that
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raschipi Cool 19:25
brokenchicken And IO::Path and List and Map and Seq
raschipi m: subset Value where Numeric|Stringy; say NumStr ~~ Value 19:26
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«True␤»
brokenchicken Not sure what's weirder... that Hash is Cool or that Setties and Baggies ain't :/
NumStr is just a subclass of Num and Str
Just like StrNum is a subclass of Str and Num 19:27
raschipi m: subset Value where Numeric|Stringy; say HashBag ~~ Value
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Expected a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~␤ (to suppress this message, please use a space like ~ ~)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3ue where Numeric|Stringy; say HashBag ~~7⏏5 Value␤»
brokenchicken it's BagHash 19:28
it's ain;'t any of 'em, just Any and Mu
raschipi m: subset Value where Numeric|Stringy; say BagHash ~~ Value
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«False␤»
brokenchicken and does Baggy, and QuantHash
and Associative
raschipi m: say BagHash ~~ Cool
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«False␤»
brokenchicken m: say QuantHash.^roles
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«((Associative))␤»
19:28 Ven left
brokenchicken ^ that shows what roles a thing does 19:29
m: say BagHash.^mro
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«((BagHash) (Any) (Mu))␤»
brokenchicken and this shows the classes
m: dd [.^mro, .^roles] without NumStr
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«[(NumStr, Num, Str, Cool, Any, Mu), (Real, Numeric, Stringy)]␤»
agentzh hah, there is a .^roles method. handy. 19:34
brokenchicken: where can i get a list of those meta methods?
agentzh already knows .^name, .^methods, and .^attributes. 19:35
brokenchicken m: say BagHash.HOW.^methods».name.sort.say
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(ACCEPTS ACCEPTS ASSIGN-KEY ASSIGN-POS AT-KEY AT-POS Array BIND-KEY BIND-POS BUILDALL BUILDALLPLAN BUILDPLAN BUILD_LEAST_DERIVED Bag BagHash Bool CREATE Capture DELETE-KEY DELETE-POS DUMP DUMP-OBJECT-ATTRS DUMP-PIECES EXISTS-KEY EXISTS-POS FLATTENABLE_HASH…»
agentzh hah, didn't realize .HOW supports those meta methods too. *grin*
thanks
seems like the docs are lagging behind. 19:36
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brokenchicken agentzh: the $x.^blah is a shorthand for $x.HOW.blah($x) 19:36
agentzh brokenchicken: yeah, i was aware of that. just didn't know HOW.HOW is possible :)
brokenchicken m: say BagHash.HOW.^mrow
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«No such method 'mrow' for invocant of type 'NQPClassHOW'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken m: say BagHash.HOW.^mro.say 19:37
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«((ClassHOW) (Any) (Mu))␤True␤»
brokenchicken m: say 42.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«No such method 'gist' for invocant of type 'KnowHOW'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken m: say 42.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.HOW.^name
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«KnowHOW␤»
agentzh oy
brokenchicken :)
agentzh maybe going too meta? *grin*
brokenchicken :)
19:39 Ven joined
agentzh Numberic|Stringy serves me very well. thanks for the help! 19:39
is there a shorthand for .can("dump-me").Bool ? 19:40
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agentzh it's kinda annoying that .can() does not return a boolean directly. 19:40
raschipi cast it to bool with ?
cast it to bool with "?"
agentzh i'm just using it in when. 19:41
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agentzh so the retval of .can() makes when fails. 19:41
s/fails/fail/
raschipi: ? is a prefix operator?
timotimo yup 19:42
agentzh thanks! i just found it in the long p6 operator list :D
much better than .Bool.
raschipi There's also the lower precedence "so" that does the same thing. 19:43
agentzh is having a lot of fun coding in p6.
brokenchicken m: dd "foo".^lookup('dump-me')
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«Mu␤»
brokenchicken m: dd so "foo".^lookup('dump-me') 19:44
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
agentzh raschipi: thanks for the tip!
brokenchicken There's also .so
agentzh ah, .^lookup().
is it expected to be faster or slower than .can()?
raschipi Like when children fight: "So!" "Not so!" "So!" "Not so!".
brokenchicken agentzh: you can just write it as *.can("blahg") if you're using it in when
agentzh what's the * magic? 19:45
raschipi Yo're supposed to fill it in, not P6 in this case.
agentzh i used to see that in @a[*-3]
brokenchicken agentzh: makes a lambda for roughly -> $x { $x.can("blah") }
raschipi Oh, neat. 19:46
brokenchicken agentzh: and `when` smartmatches and smartmatch against a Callable uses the truthiness of the return value as result, hence you avoid the ? or .so or .Bool
hm
agentzh got it.
i guess creating a closure here is a bit slower?
brokenchicken m: when .can('blah') { say "whatever" }; say "meow"
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«meow␤»
brokenchicken m: when .can('rotor') { say "whatever" }; say "meow"
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«meow␤»
brokenchicken m: when .can('List') { say "whatever" }; say "meow" 19:47
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«meow␤»
brokenchicken
.oO( dafuq )
m: dd .can('List')
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«(Method+{<anon|55315056>}.new,)␤»
brokenchicken Ah right smartmatch
raschipi agentzh: Don't worry about performance until you can profile it. 19:48
brokenchicken m: sub x { say "running $^x" }; $_ = True; when x 42 {}; when x 45 {} 19:49
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«running 42␤»
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brokenchicken agentzh: I'd say the *.can... is more correct. When smartmatches. The *.can basically calls .can() on whatever's in $_ and the return value's truthiness is used for whether or not `when` is run. Whereas with just .can() you're using return value to smartmatch against original value 19:50
Which is why you're needing the .Bool on it
And that'd prolly give you wrong results when you least expect it 19:51
m: given False { when ?.can('List') { say "lulz fail" }; }
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«lulz fail␤»
brokenchicken m: given False { when ?.can('dasdasdasdsad') { say "lulz fail" }; }
camelia ( no output )
brokenchicken or not
mhm, smartmatch with false's alwayus false 19:52
Never mind then :)
agentzh: as for slowness, I'd think it'd be just an irrelevant compile time hit 19:54
m: for ^100_000 { when *.can("foo") {} }; say now - INIT now 19:55
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«0.5298808␤»
brokenchicken m: for ^100_000 { when .can("foo") {} }; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«0.5724014␤»
brokenchicken even "faster"
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agentzh hah 19:56
brokenchicken: where can i find the docs for "*"? 19:58
it looks very interesting
brokenchicken agentzh: it's Whatever (and when it makes lambdas, it's WhateverCode)
There's also a HyperWhatever that's two stars
agentzh Okay, i see. 19:59
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agentzh thanks 19:59
raschipi docs.perl6.org/type/Whatever
docs.perl6.org/type/WhateverCode
brokenchicken huggable: Whatever
huggable brokenchicken, Placeholder for an unspecified value/argument: docs.perl6.org/type/Whatever
agentzh raschipi: thanks!
brokenchicken Yeah, first section in Whatever seems to talk about the good stuff
agentzh raschipi: what do you usually use for profiling p6 code?
brokenchicken perl6 has --profile option 20:00
agentzh yeah, the doc is very clear.
brokenchicken: nice! i'll try it out :)
agentzh is writing a DSL compiler in p6.
raschipi huggable: performance
huggable raschipi, nothing found
brokenchicken m: (* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *)[^12+1].say
camelia ( no output )
brokenchicken no output? You're tricking me, robot
m: (* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *)[^12+1].say 20:01
camelia ( no output )
brokenchicken weird
oh right
m: (* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *)(^12+1).say
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 12 arguments but got 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
raschipi docs.perl6.org/language/performance
brokenchicken m: (* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *)(|(^12+1)).say
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«479001600␤»
geekosaur huggable, performance :is: docs.perl6.org/language/performance 20:02
huggable geekosaur, Added performance as docs.perl6.org/language/performance
brokenchicken agentzh: it's kinda slow for large programs (the browser crawls to halt loading so much JSON). There's --profile-filename=whatever.sql option that outputs SQL format but there ain't yet a viewer for that format 20:03
other than...raw SQL queries I mean :P
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moritz do we have an implementation of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_function somewhere in Perl 6? 20:05
brokenchicken not in core 20:06
uuu pretty graphs
perlpilot maybe on rosettacode
agentzh brokenchicken: oh yeah, the .html takes forever to load in my chrome it seems.
moritz github.com/colomon/Math-Odd-Functions exposes erf through NativeCall 20:08
agentzh okay, finally rendered. 20:09
brokenchicken prof-m: say 'hello world'
camelia prof-m : OUTPUT«No such file or directory»
.. Prof: p.p6c.org/3dc9d17
agentzh chrome has asked me a few times whether to kill that page.
brokenchicken hehe
agentzh the report is very nice.
camelia prof-m : OUTPUT«(timeout)Can't exec "./rakudo-inst/bin/perl6-m": No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 206.␤cat: /home/camelia/rakudo-inst/revision: No such file or directory␤␤now running scp...␤/tmp/mprof.html: No such file or directory␤» 20:10
.. Prof: p.p6c.org/3dc9d2d
agentzh tho painful to render
brokenchicken hm, that url is a 404
Ah, and that is why...
agentzh okay, the grammar takes most of the CPU time.
the parser.
i have a p5 implementation for the same parser and the p5 version is 100% faster. 20:11
raschipi But is it as nice?
agentzh p6 version is nicer, of course. 20:12
brokenchicken agentzh: only 100%? That's actually quite nice
agentzh though i'm not very happy with p6's actions class.
the Capture objects can be tedious to deal with when constructing my own AST.
brokenchicken: yeah, i benchmarked several real-world input, most of them are quite large. 20:13
brokenchicken agentzh: got code to look at?
raschipi We're within an order of magnitude of Perl5, very nice.
brokenchicken of the Actions class
agentzh brokenchicken: the p5 version has been massively profiled and optimized in the last month.
using 5.24.0
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brokenchicken m: say sum (1..100000000000000000000000000000000) 20:14
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«5000000000000000000000000000000050000000000000000000000000000000␤»
agentzh brokenchicken: sorry, it is company code atm, so i cannot show it to you.
brokenchicken But we can do THAT instantly! :)
agentzh: alright :)
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agentzh the p6 grammar is relatively large. 20:15
411 LOC.
for a production DSL used in CDN and ISP networks.
brokenchicken neat
mspo 50% slower is pretty good for p6 20:16
actually really good
brokenchicken the upcoming release will have quite a few of nice optimizations too
agentzh mspo: yeah, i was actually surposed when i first saw the results.
*surprised
brokenchicken github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...g#L94-L147 20:17
buggable: speed
buggable brokenchicken, ▆▃▄▅▃▅▄▄▃█▆▃▃▄▄▄▄▅▄▅▄▅▅▆▄▄▆▄▄▆▄▂▁▂▃▂▂▄▃▂▇▂▂▃▁▁▁▃▁▂ data for 2016-12-30–2017-01-19; range: 4.873s–5.958s
agentzh mspo: i had been expecting a 10x slow down or something.
*grin*
mspo agentzh: yeah
agentzh: does that include moar startup time and stuff?
agentzh mspo: nope.
mspo okay so a good measurement
agentzh: nice that you're using p6 at work 20:18
agentzh mspo: i used now() in p6 to benchmark the real thing.
*to time
mspo: sure, that's been my dream since 2007 :)
brokenchicken :)
agentzh mspo: we're also implementing a subset of Perl 6 targeting LuaJIT so that we can also run Perl 6 online. 20:19
mspo agentzh: crazy
brokenchicken :o
agentzh mspo: a lot of tests have already passed :)
a recursive fib(35) p6 program is 10x faster in our p6 compiler than rakudo+moarvm. 20:20
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agentzh the goal is to make our compiler bootstrapped. 20:20
and i'm currently borrowing rakduo to bootstrap my own compiler and other DSL compilers :)
*my own p6 compiler
so i really appreciate all you guys' help here. 20:21
i'm still learning p6 myself.
discovering new cool features everyday.
perlpilot agentzh: constant cool features is part of the Perl Way ;) 20:22
agentzh perlpilot: indeed!
glad to see my p6 code is so much nicer than p5.
getting rid of a lot of parens, for example *grin* 20:23
and my $self = shift
"my self = shit" *grin*
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agentzh using at least a subset of Perl 6 in very busy network gateways and web applications is definitely a goal of our team :) 20:24
brokenchicken cool
agentzh it has to be significantly faster than perl 5 too. 20:25
mspo where is this? :)
luajit is probably faster than p5 for some stuff
agentzh mspo: not open sourced yet :)
mspo but p5 is pretty fast
agentzh mspo: still busy hacking on it.
mspo agentzh: I mean where do you work?
brokenchicken " recursive fib(35) p6 program is 10x faster in our p6 compiler than rakudo+moarvm" .... I hope to eventually see some PRs to rakudo/moarvm with ideas :)
agentzh mspo: yeah, p5 is pretty fast as compared to rakduo, but still not fast enough for CDN and ISP gateways.
perlpilot agentzh: I had a minor dream at last year's TPC::NA (neé YAPC::NA) of giving a talk at this year's TPC::NA called "Perl 6 in Production" Alas, I've yet to use it that way. 20:26
mspo agentzh: yeah I'm sure
brokenchicken m: my $fib = (1, 1, *+*...*); for ^000 { $ = $fib[^100] }; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6. Please use 0o00 if you mean that.␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> 3my $fib = (1, 1, *+*...*); for ^0007⏏5 { $ = $fib[^100] }; say now - INIT now␤0.0018209␤»
mspo study luajit tricks and see how you can't use them because the language is too flexible
brokenchicken m: my $fib = (1, 1, *+*...*); for ^1000 { $ = $fib[^100] }; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«0.31964028␤»
brokenchicken m: my $fib = (1, 1, *+*...*); for ^10_000 { $ = $fib[^100] }; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«2.8997799␤»
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brokenchicken m: my $fib = (1, 1, *+*...*); $ = $fib[^10000]; say now - INIT now; given now { $ = $fib[^10000]; say now - $_ } 20:32
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«0.3054540152␤0.020881␤»
agentzh mspo: i work in the SF bay area.
brokenchicken neat
agentzh mspo: for the OpenResty Inc company. 20:33
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agentzh mspo: i used to work for CloudFlare. 20:33
mspo agentzh: okay
agentzh: I was thinking openrest (luajit) but didn't realize they were a company 20:34
agentzh: and knew it wasn't fastly since you weren't parsing VCL
agentzh mspo: well, we are just setting up the company.
mspo okay
agentzh mspo: and OpenResty is being supported by the OpenResty Software Foundation as well, which is nonprofit org in Hongkong. 20:35
agentzh hates VCL.
mspo VCL isn't fun I agree
but fastly is nice 20:36
agentzh We invented an Edge DSL for that purpose.
a pure rule-based language.
can be compiled down to optimized Lua code.
mspo can you do restarts and rewrites?
agentzh targeting OpenResty/LuaJIT. and i'm currently working on the p6 version of the Edge DSL compiler.
we already have a p5 version. 20:37
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agentzh and the benchmark i talked about earlier is for this edge compiler. 20:37
brokenchicken \o/
mspo cotendo used to have an xml config language
agentzh hates xml too *grin* 20:38
brokenchicken :)
agentzh well, CDN vendors will be part of our customers, though not exclusively.
mspo I mostly use the gui for fastly stuff but it's nice to have the vcl escape hatch
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agentzh OpenResty Inc is not a CDN vendor. 20:39
we sell licenses of software.
mspo trying to use cloudflare or anyone else is like wearing handcuffs
agentzh including p6 compilers *grin*
dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 4fc79e3 | (David Warring)++ | t/categories/cookbook/17sockets.t:
fix spurious socket test failure
pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 67713c4 | (David Warring)++ | M (2 files):
add a META6.json. Simplify install-deps rule in the Makefile
mspo so you're going to sell the DSL?
to like.. a distil
whitelabel cdn? 20:40
agentzh mspo: we sell solutions, apps, and tools.
mspo agentzh: okay
agentzh: when distil, f5, and cdnetworks starts calling with their new "DSL config language to show me" I'll think about you 20:41
agentzh mspo: cool, thanks. 20:42
mspo limelight
agentzh mspo: we have multiple DSLs, for different domains. 20:43
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agentzh mspo: Perl 6, Ruby, Python, and JS will also be our "DSLs" *grin* 20:43
at least a core subset of them.
and LuaJIT is our "common language runtime"
mspo tricky
agentzh mspo: yeah, tricky, and that's why we can sell them *grin* 20:44
we may open source the unoptimized versions of these compilers to the community.
mspo agentzh: going to also do HCL?
agentzh and just sell the optimized versions.
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mspo that could be interesting 20:44
(hashicorp config langauge) so you were a first class target of terraform 20:45
agentzh mspo: what is HCL?
okay, just saw your message.
Geth span style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 504ddbf2f3 | (David Warring)++ | META6.json
typo
 20:47
agentzh yeah, we may consider that.
inventing new compilers in perl 6 is just too much fun.
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gfldex ugexe: could you have a look at the following build log that I don't understand please? gist.github.com/gfldex/666e16b708f...de99928128 21:19
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Geth span style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 3c5645b210 | (David Warring)++ | README.md
[README.md] update dependency installation notes.
 21:24
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ugexe gfldex: heh, the only thing I could guess is maybe a zef bug with how it filters on a distribution's license 21:53
Operator::defined-alternation fetches fetched once, extracted once, but then during the filter stage it gets duplicated somehow 21:54
RabidGravy well you've all gone another month without breaking any of my modules
of course something that has an external dependency fails because the world changes 21:56
brokenchicken RabidGravy, sorry, we'll try hardner next month :p 21:58
You checked againt HEAD, right?
RabidGravy yrah
brokenchicken cool
moritz organizations can now apply at Google Summer of Code
anybody want to do a Perl 6 application? 21:59
RabidGravy and 18 minutes vs more than double that 6 months ago 22:00
[Coke] moritz: there isn't a Perl 6 organization.
Haven't heard anything about TPF applying, but I think the last time we did, we were not chosen, maybe in favor of new blood. 22:01
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[Coke] I'm sure we could find some p6 projects if we did it via the TPF. 22:01
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MasterDuke agentzh: if you do --profile-filename=something.json you can use github.com/tadzik/p6profiler-qt, which can handle much larger profiles than the browser can 22:05
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jdv79 is there a way in a signature to transform using a method call? like run from-json? 22:18
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moritz [Coke]: there doesn't have to be legal Perl 6 organization to apply as a Perl 6 project, as far as I understand 22:25
gfldex m: role Transform { method Transform { 't' ~ self } }; my $i = 42 but Transform; sub f( Transform(Int) $i){ say $i }; f $i; 22:26
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«42␤»
moritz [Coke]: they even have provisions for projects that can't accept payments (let SPI handle it, for example)
gfldex i did expect it to call Transform
ugexe gfldex: that doesn't seem to be it either. I'll have to add some extra debugging stuff to figure this out because its looking like it might be a rakudo bug
moritz [Coke]: and TPF didn't get in the last two (?) times, so maybe a separate attempt would be more helpful
ugexe i'll figure it out tonight though
gfldex brilliant, I should be able to write the blog post tomorrow that I wanted to write 2 days ago :) 22:27
moritz time for sleep here, g'night 22:28
gfldex i do not expect it to call Transform anymore
ugexe: removing license from META.info didnt work for me either 22:29
jdv79 Variable definition of type Str:D requires an initializer 22:30
that seems a bit misleading
as a "is required" will suffice
22:31 Ven left
jdv79 as a "is required" will suffice 22:31
oops
22:32 lmmx left
brokenchicken m: class { has Str:D $x } 22:34
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable definition of type Str:D requires an initializer␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3class { has Str:D $x 7⏏5}␤»
brokenchicken m: class { has Str:D $.x }
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable definition of type Str:D requires an initializer␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3class { has Str:D $.x 7⏏5}␤»
brokenchicken prolly could say "attribute" instead of variable too
jdv79: file it. [email@hidden.address] 22:35
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agentzh MasterDuke: thanks for the tip! 22:42
is there a shorthand for "!(a === b)" ? 22:43
brokenchicken a !=== b
agentzh it works?! 22:44
brokenchicken yup, ! is a meta operator
agentzh m: "hello" !=== "hello"
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Useless use of !=== in sink context␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> 3"hello" 7⏏5!=== "hello"␤»
agentzh m: say "hello" !=== "hello"
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«False␤»
agentzh wow
thanks!
brokenchicken m: say "hello" !=== "ballo"
camelia rakudo-moar ed482e: OUTPUT«True␤»
MasterDuke agentzh: np. there's a QT imposed limit on the size profile it can handle (~130Mb IIRC), so if the profile ends up larger than that you'll have to use SQL
agentzh MasterDuke: gotcha. thanks 22:45
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agentzh speaking of p6 profiling, i'm thinking about porting my sampling-based systemtap flame graph tools over to the perl 6 world. 22:45
they work great for perl 5 and luajit, for example.
usable for online sampling. 22:46
brokenchicken sweet
agentzh github.com/agentzh/perl-systemtap-toolkit
i used to give a talk on perl 6 flame graphs on YAPC::NA: www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&...MeF4PFmgtA
sorry for the google search link. it should be agentzh.org/misc/slides/yapc-na-201...graphs.pdf 22:47
we successfully used this flame graph tool to make perl 5's pegex parsing framework times faster IIRC. 22:48
and the data output is minimal. thanks to the sampling approach.
we also have tools for LuaJIT VM profiling: github.com/openresty/stapxx#lj-vm-states 22:49
similar to what the current perl 6 profiler report offers.
like GC overhead shreshold, and etc.
how much time spent on JITted code and how much on interpreted code, and how much on external C calls. 22:50
but they are very light weight.
and can be enabled and disabled dynamically when the process is running.
and no change is needed in the target application.
and even getting a full report of all the GC object stats, live and dead, all those not yet collected: github.com/openresty/stapxx#lj-gc-objs 22:51
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haxmeister www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ial_part_1 22:52
^switches languages in middle of tut
ugexe gfldex: heh github.com/gfldex/perl6-rakudo-sli...6.info#L15 22:53
22:54 haxmeister left
Geth span style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: ba0795cec5 | (David Warring)++ | 4 files
switch from panda to zef
 22:54
span style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 33124d6c5a | (David Warring)++ | META6.json
add missing File::Find dependency
span style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: a1dabfb813 | (David Warring)++ | categories/euler/prob288-shlomif.p6
optimize euler prob 288

Lower to native ints. 4x speed improvement.
ugexe gfldex: btw its META6.json, not META6.info (and preferably not META.info) 22:57
brokenchicken haxmeister, that's hilarious :) 22:59
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brokenchicken it's also very dated.... "The language changes a bit every week and Rakudo doesn't support every command" 23:00
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[Coke] moritz: (tpf, p6) sure, we could put together a go ourselves. 23:21
(but we should make the TPF take any money if we get it and put it in the p6 fund.)
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