svn switch --relocate svn.openfoundry.org/pugs svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | dev.pugscode.org/
Set by putter on 11 February 2007.
TimToady and the easiest way to implement it is by really doing a lookbehind. but that implies reversing the pattern 00:00
dmq especially when you already have nfrastructure in place to do a BM for 'bar' it should really look for 'foobar' as it mean BM can go faster
well japhy's \K sorts it somewhat.
iow: /foo\Kbar/ 00:01
TimToady what does that do?
dmq it updates starp[0] to be the current position.
so you can do variable length lookbehind using it 00:02
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dmq for instance /(?:fnorble)*\Kbar/ is the equivelent of /(?<=(fnorble)*)bar/ 00:03
its useful for things like s/foo\kbar/baz/; 00:04
about 10 times faster than s/(foo)bar/${1}baz/
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TimToady okay, it's equiv to <( in P6 00:05
do you have an equiv for )> as well?
dmq search.cpan.org/~pinyan/Regexp-Keep-0.02/Keep.pm
lambdabot Title: Regexp::Keep - filter to allow the \K escape in regexes - search.cpan.org
dmq well japhy talked about a \F for "forsake" which might be )> 00:08
but i didnt do it.
well i tried, but it caused all kinds of problems and since lookahead allows variable width i thought it was no loss. 00:09
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dduncan TimToady, regarding the list of data types in Synopsis 2, there seem to be a number of supporting types missing from the list, but I would think that logically they should be formally shown there 00:10
TimToady it should be just as easy to set the end position as the start position in terms of internals. It's just an implicit capture, more or less.
dduncan for one thing, the data type that represents the length of a Str
dmq japhys original patch: www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/p...01380.html
lambdabot Title: Forwarded attachment..., tinyurl.com/2xbpbn
dduncan for another, the data type that represents an Order (it has 3 values, afaik)
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dduncan such as those should be in the Immutable types list 00:11
dmq timtoady: there were all kinds of hairy interactions with pos, and s/// and stuff that i decided i didnt want to spend more time on it than i did.
dduncan the length of a Str isn't an Int, and I recall you said you had a special type for it, called Length or something
or Str::Length
TimToady StrLen I think
and StrPos 00:12
you get a StrLen when you subtract two StrPos
dduncan yes ... such as these should be in the types list
formally
TimToady even informally in the types list would be an improvement. :)
dduncan yes
and Order too, or whatever its called
TimToady Ordering, or Ordered, or some such 00:13
dduncan that <=> returns
yes
TimToady yeah, the enum
and the role that goes with
probably need to start a separate list for standard roles
dduncan good idea 00:14
TimToady though a goodly number of the builtin types are class/role puns to begin with, I suspect.
dduncan but they should still all be listed in one place for reference 00:15
TimToady well, eventually you run into the fuzzy boundary between standard and pretty nearly almost standard
dmq btw timtoady you can do crazy stuff like /(foo|\Kbar)*/ 00:16
dduncan on a tangent, at one point some of your examples showed data types for representing one byte and one character respectively ... I can see that having a Char etc type would be useless, but are both of those now gone?
TimToady that's just / ( foo | <( bar )* / in P6
<( and )> aren't actually required to balance 00:17
dmq oh, i didnt realize /that/
nice.
TimToady mind, it'll confuse the heck out of your syntax highligher... :/
dmq yes, then \K is <(, but )> is the \F i couldnt get working. sorry.
TimToady I do think the relationship between <( and )> is a bit more apparent. :) 00:18
dmq yeah well.
:-)
TimToady maybe you should just implement a /p6 option. :)
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TimToady just like P6 has a :P5 option. 00:19
demq well its sorta possible via a plugin engine.
i believe thats what avar is working on
but modifiers are evil. 00:20
TimToady then (?P6) :)
demq i changed the order of the modifiers generated when stringifying a regex and all hell broke loose.
maybe (+....)
:-)
avar demq: If I ever sort out my stupid bugs:) 00:21
dmq++ made some changes which makes thing easy, wee:)
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demq oh, dont do $^H{regcomp}=0 00:22
delete the key.
r->extflags = pm->op_pmflags; /* the hell is this? ==> & RXf_PMf_COMPILETIME;*/ 00:24
lol
avar haha
it was something that was in PCRE which I started out ripping off
I have found that it server no useful function in my case:) 00:25
demq ok, look, in re->extflags you can only use RXf_FLAGS
but 5 bits of extflags are shared with the PMOP so have the prefix: RXf_PMf_ 00:26
and have PMf_ equivelents too.
and this is the perl6 channel.
whoops.
avar heh:) 00:27
demq bops over to #p5p so as not to bore anybody
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heh
dduncan TimToady, it occurs to me that with things like StrPos and StrLen, it may not be possible to treat them as normal data types, as values of normal types have meaning in isolation, but it occurs to me that StrPos and StrLen may only have meaning in the context of a particular Str value ... eg, a StrPos or StrLen may only make sense for a specific sequence of graphemes or codepoints or whatever 00:35
if so, then StrLen|StrPos is more like a reference type, that points to a container specifically
except that StrLen|StrPos will work with any appearance of the same Str value 00:36
I say this because, unlike units like of spacial length or time or temperature or velocity etc in standard contexts, where differing units can be converted between each other at a fixed ratio, the ratio of eg graphemes to codepoints isn't fixed, and depends on what specific graphemes or chars there are 00:38
on the other hand, if StrLen or StrPos simply means "a length in graphemes OR a length in codepoints etc", then that probably would work as a normal data type 00:40
such that StrPos then is simply a disjunction type
is that how it is? 00:42
In any event, I suggest you specifically say whether StrLen|StrPos is such a disjunctive type, which has meaning in isolation, or whether it just has meaning in context of a Str because the graphemes|codepoints are just projected views of the internal value 00:44
thank you 00:45
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dduncan say in the documentation that is 01:04
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svnbot6 r15272 | lwall++ | added cross metaoperator 01:39
r15272 | lwall++ | random cleanup
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REPLeffect Anyone else read this regexp article? swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html 03:10
tene REPLeffect: ask me again in five minutes. 03:11
;)
REPLeffect hehe
I'd be particularly interested to hear TimToady's take.
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TimToady already gave my opinion on PM 03:16
bbl & 03:17
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REPLeffect_ Forgive my ignorance. (and my poor connection).... 03:22
... What is the PM TimToady referered to. 03:23
"already gave my opinion on PM"
Previous messages? 03:24
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xdg REPLeffect: PM is probably Perl Monks 03:45
REPLeffect: perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=597262 03:47
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REPLeffect Thanks, xdg. 03:50
So, tene, you read that article yet? :-) 03:51
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brad__ hi 05:47
PerlJam hello 05:48
brad__ just lurking hoping to pick up some amusing info on perl6
and maybe chat with some perl6 luminaries
or is it just us? 05:49
nothingmuch so this one time a cabal member walked into a bar
and the bartender asked "do you have a commit bit?"
along those lines?
brad__ sure, pass the pretzels 05:50
will perl6 support any concept of lazy evaluation?
nothingmuch yes
brad__ interesting
nothingmuch my $var = lazy { moose() };
for scsalars
lists are lazy by default
PerlJam brad__: perl6 is all about the lazy 05:51
nothingmuch you can unlazify lists, see s04 i think
brad__ would love to see lots of haskell goodness in perl6
i like haskell but am sorta hardwired into perl after many years
nothingmuch dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S02.html#Lists
PerlJam brad__: same here.
lambdabot Title: Synopsis 2: Bits and Pieces - perl6:
brad__ well lambdabot is here, so i know haskell is influencing! 05:52
PerlJam I tried haskell for a while in the early days of pugs, but I quickly slipped back to my perlian roots
brad__ i am still trying to make a go of it in haskell 05:53
nothingmuch good nicht
brad__ immature libraries are an issue...we take things like dbi for granted
PerlJam gut Nacht
:-)
nothingmuch @google antibuddha
brad__ bye
lambdabot urchin.earth.li/darcs/antibuddha/
Title: Index of /darcs/antibuddha
PerlJam brad__: you mean for perl6?
brad__: or are you still talking about haskell? 05:54
brad__ well i meant the lack of a good stable database interface in haskell
there a like three, all sorta beta quality
nothingmuch oops, good *night*
PerlJam create a perl linkage and borrow DBI then
nothingmuch i didn't realize my silly typo, thanks PerlJam ;-) 05:55
anyway, ciao guys
brad__ bye
PerlJam later nothingmuch (have a nice sleep (or whatever you do at night :-))
nothingmuch excercise now 05:56
shower soon
sleep after
PerlJam brad__: pugs is full of code that knows how to deal with perl5 or parrot or other stuff so that pugs can use them natively. If it's good enough for pugs, that same technique can be used with "ordinary" haskell
brad__ i suppose 05:57
i haven't played with pugs for so long
i wonder if there will ever be another release
or if it has come time to focus on perl6 on parrot
not that these efforts are mutually exclusive 05:58
i desperately want to be able to download a perl6-0.0.1.ta.gz
PerlJam Well ... given that Larry has been writing the perl 6 grammar in perl 6, we'll kind of need something that can do something useful with it if we're to bootstrap ourselves to a "real" perl 6
whether that's pugs or parrot or something else entirely, who knows? 05:59
brad__ hopefully that will resolve itself in 2007
well its too late for "something else entirely", i presume that parrot is the deal 06:00
is larry ever in here? i would like to virtually meet him one day
PerlJam I'm expecting a useful perl6-on-parrot this year and a useful-for-ordinary-people perl6-on-parrot next year.
brad__ well that is great news 06:01
i will definitely jump on anything that gets released
PerlJam brad__: larry is usually here during US Pacific day time
brad__ ah, well i should try during the day
PerlJam And what makes you think it's too late for "something else"? 06:02
brad__ well, just inertia. while people say "something else" is possible, no one really seems to be venturing out in a new direction (or are they?)
PerlJam pugs came together rather quickly from near nothing. Someone else could do that again :)
brad__ and since parrot seems viable, i am not entirely sure what the point would be 06:03
not that there has to be a "point"
PerlJam I'm still betting on parrot fwiw :)
brad__ whatever happened to audrey? i used to see lots of posts and presentations and such
then nothing
not that she is on a schedule to amuse us 06:04
PerlJam I don't know ... I've been mostly out of things for several months myself.
brad__ are you a perl luminary hiding behind an irc name? 06:05
PerlJam nope, just a long-time perl user.
brad__ me too
about eleven years
PerlJam 15 for me in the summer.
brad__ cool. when i started, perl5 was "beta"
it really blew me away at the time 06:06
still does
PerlJam perl6 will do that too :-)
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brad__ things i take for granted now like context-sensitive evaluation...tres cool! 06:06
it will be neat to see how high parrot implementation can crawl up the "great programming language shootout" list 06:08
i have always thought parrot would be the best choice for a dynamic runtime for firefox
why should i have to use js?!?!
PerlJam parrot needs to achieve ubiquity in browsers and webservers IMHO 06:09
brad__ agreed, although it will be tough, the mozilla.org people are stuck on tamarin (the next js runtime), and they have no interest in language neutrality 06:10
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Coke_ whoa, parrot seems viable?! 06:10
PerlJam heh 06:11
someone was talking to the mozilla people about embedding parrot a while back.
Coke_ (what happened to audreyt). Near as I can tell work, and illness. She's in the hospital ATM.
PerlJam I wonder what ever became of that.
brad__ i hope audrey gets better
PerlJam Coke_: what sort of illness?
brad__ harumph
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brad_ whoops 06:16
anyone still here 06:18
allbery_b hepatitis, type B 06:20
brad_ allbery_b - what was the context of that? 06:21
my connection dropped
allbery_b <Coke_> (what happened to audreyt). Near as I can tell work, and illness. She's in the hospital ATM.
<PerlJam> Coke_: what sort of illness?
PerlJam allbery_b: bummer :(
brad_ hep b is pretty serious
thats too bad 06:22
are you the same allbery_b who is so helpful in #haskell?
allbery_b apparently she got lucky and has the simple version, she should be back in business in a week or so
yep
Coke_ hah: xkcd.com/c224.html
lambdabot Title: xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe
allbery_b (but, well, nots of us are helpful in #haskell, just most folks were concentrating on Boney's questions) 06:23
er, lots of us
allbery_b should really be in bed...
brad_ i have "a haskell study plan" open in a screen split pane right now! 06:24
allbery_b I'mnot much more than a beginner myself, I've figured out monads but often miss that I can use functors instead :) 06:25
brad_ i pretty much wedged on functors 06:27
i know what it is when i read it, thats it thought
not sure i actually need to know that part
just like in perl, i sorta know what i need to know, not everything
allbery_b functors are the step below monads, and are simpler; I'm paying the price for hopping right over them on the way
but functors vs. monads are part of haskell 06:28
s version of TIMTOWTDI
brad_ thats what i figure
haskell is sort of like perl, you can get away with a lot without knowing the deep stuff
allbery_b some of the deep stuff you don't have to know at all. the mathy types often wank about category theory, butwhile monads were taken from category theory you don't really need to know anything about them even for complex monad usage 06:29
@go you could have invented monads 06:30
lambdabot sigfpe.blogspot.com/2006/08/you-cou...s-and.html
Title: A Neighborhood of Infinity: You Could Have Invented Monads! (And Maybe You Alrea ...
brad_ yeah, i pretty much stop reading haskell-cafe posts when they go too far down that route
allbery_b good article on how to work out monads without getting anywhere near the fancy maths
brad_ just no need and frankly no time and likely not smart enough anyway
allbery_b I read them in the vague hope that some of it'll stick, but I'm funny that way 06:31
do a lot of learning by osmosis, always have
brad_ haskell-cafe has some gems, mostly crap though, like any mailing list 06:33
wonder if there is a perl6 equivalent
allbery_b perl6-users but it doesn't have a lot of traffic as yet 06:34
brad_ i will dive in as soon as i think the syntax is settled
i tried making a deep dive about a year ago, but when i realized how fast the target was moving, decided i had better things to do than chase a moving target 06:35
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allbery_b well, it looks like it's finally starting to settle, lwall is starting to push some stuff past 6.0, implying that he's targeting a 6.0-release 06:35
brad_ ah, so he is going to let some features slip? 06:36
to try to nail down the 6.0 featureset?
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PerlJam He's going to let some 06:36
He's going to let some "features" go where they belong -- in modules
allbery_b I was thinking of ;-syntax for MMD 06:37
PerlJam But the syntax has settled down quite a bit.
brad_ mmd?
PerlJam even though there have been a few minor changes in the last month or so
allbery_b multiparameter method dispatch
brad_ ah
maybe i should dig up the apocalypses again
if they are actually stable at this point 06:38
allbery_b the apocalypses are frozen. and as such, very out of date
the synopses are where it's at
brad_ oh, then what are the design docs?
AH 06:39
i confused the two
and lets not forget the exegesi or whatever
allbery_b the acopalypses are the initial thinking about the design, saved for posterity
brad_ the synopsi catted together seem like they are destined to be the next perldocs
allbery_b the exegeses are later thinking about what the apocalypses mean 06:40
the synopses are the actual design
and yes, they're at least a skjeleton for the pods. but rather incomplete as yet, for that
and lwall changed at least 3 synopses just today, so it's far from frozen just yet 06:41
PerlJam most of the recent changes are minorish semantic changes. The syntax hasn't changed (much :) 06:42
allbery_b yeh
allbery_b really needs to go to bed, approaching 2am here and he's ready to fall over. 'night
PerlJam good night allbery_b 06:43
brad_: S05, S06, and S12 are must-reads if you're interested in perl6. (Though you'll probably have to read the other synopses to understand them :-) 06:44
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PerlJam brad_: S05, S06, and S12 are must-reads if you're interested in perl6. (Though you'll probably have to read the other synopses to understand them :-) 06:44
brad_ i will have to check those ones out 06:45
well i must be going, dog wants to be taken out to whiz 06:46
take care
PerlJam It's a bit past my bed time too, so I'm out as well.
buenos noches!
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Aankhen`` I apologize for being out-of-date, but... are there any provisions to facilitate event-driven programming in Perl 6? I seem to recall some sort of discussion regarding it, but I can't remember any specifics. 10:29
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moritz I've just seen on /. that there is another Google Summer of Code this year... 12:21
is perl6 going to offer any projects? 12:22
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Coke_ parrot surely should, even if p6 doesn't. =-) 13:14
bah. when is the TPF grant submissiond eadline?
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rindolf Hi all. 13:16
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pmurias rindolf: hi 14:00
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pmurias is anyone here working on multimethods? 15:01
pmurias is coding a naive implementation for fun
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cmarcelo pmurias: moose. is your fun implementation of MM available somewhere? 15:17
nothingmuch waves at cmarcelo 15:18
cmarcelo nothingmuch: hey :-)
nothingmuch hola =)
what's up (code wise, have you been doing something interesting lately?) 15:19
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cmarcelo I've been reading the Art of Metaobject book and suddenly lots of MO(H) seems to be clearer now :).. besides that I'm focused on a talk I'm going to do about Perl 5 (and 6) to my friends => I intent to show crazy things like FuseFS mounting svn repos, network simulation stuff.. all with CPAN toys. They like Ruby/Python but I think they'll like CPAN more :o) 15:22
nothingmuch: what about you? hiking? :o)
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nothingmuch cool 15:23
i'm off to new york today
i'm at stevan's house doing work stuff
but I'm going to have fun this weekend
then it's more work stuff
pmurias cmarcelo: ci it in
svnbot6 r15273 | pmurias++ | MMD in p5
r15273 | pmurias++ | * a rough initial stage
r15273 | pmurias++ | * no subtyping
r15273 | pmurias++ | * carps at ambiguitis
nothingmuch there are some cute CPAN projects on "a low flame"
(i donm't know if you can say that in english?)
but nothing special 15:24
cmarcelo "a low flame" = ??
demq "backburner" is often the expression
nothingmuch ah
demq but on a low flame shouldnt be too hard to understand imo
nothingmuch as in i'm only giving them a little bit of love, they are not being actively worked on
15:24 demq is now known as dmq
nothingmuch but they are progressing slowly 15:24
dmq sure that would be on the back-burner
nothingmuch thanks =) 15:25
i think my dream of becoming a rapper is not going to work out if I can't speak english that well
hmm
then again rappers usually can't speak english that well
lichtkind dmq are you Thomas Fahle ? 15:26
dmq no. im Yves Orton
nothingmuch dmq is The Regex Magician Yves Orton
eep, too slow
cmarcelo nothingmuch: nice. not much work on "object metaness" then?
dmq also known as demerphq 15:27
nothingmuch no, i haven't done almost any of that since the port... mostly i'd like to get feedback from audrey on how it's working out IRL
pmurias is "eval {...};ok $@" the right way to test exceptions (Test::More)
?
nothingmuch and then stevan and I will try to workit into Moose or it's own sugar layer
pmurias lunch&
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lichtkind dmq french? 15:29
gr i mixed that
dmq niet.
lichtkind russian :)
dmq ich bin Kanadisch.
rgs hands a baguette and a camembert to dmq.
dmq love french food tho.
and i wish i spoke french. 15:30
course i wish i spoke german as well.
and come to think of it, in the seven years ive been in germany my english has gone to hell as well. :-)
so i am a nonligual :-)
lichtkind poor dmq 15:31
cmarcelo nothingmuch: cool. keep me on the loop.. ;)
nothingmuch will do =)
masak patricklogan.blogspot.com/2007/02/i...iddly.html 15:33
lambdabot Title: Making it stick.: It's Fiddly
masak (STM, that is)
any thoughts on this?
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lichtkind dmq so we weill see us tuesday :) 15:39
dmq thought so. 15:40
going with strat then?
might see me on wednessday too, depending on what talk you go to.
;-)
lichtkind dmq yes going back to ffm but im not shure when 15:41
dmq will you attend the regex talk at GPW? 15:42
lichtkind dmq yeah i checked this button , im pending but since 6pan is still future musik like we say in german i come to yours :) 15:43
cmarcelo pmurias: re: MM, I'll take a look, tks for commiting. 15:45
dmq well, the other one sounds interesting too
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lichtkind dmq yes but such things i rather play with or read about that hear others talk about 15:55
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[M]erk Does anything actually parse and use Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm yet, or is it just there? 15:59
[particle] [M]erk: pugs can parse it, but nothing uses it yet 16:02
it's only been a week....
[M]erk Wow. I just realized that I am having / will have a six day weekend! 16:10
YAY!
6 1/2
buetow You are lucky 16:13
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[M]erk My county closes school at the slightest amount of snow. 16:13
So we've been closed every since halfway through tuesday.
buetow Ah, i ve heard about this, USA, very cold now
[M]erk Then we get presidents day. 16:14
And then when I finally get back after not having a week of school, I get to get out early to go to a track meet. 16:17
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pmurias is anyone here familiar with MP6/KP6? 16:24
pmurias will propably try to add the multimethod code to KP6 when he finishes subtyping 16:27
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[particle] is somewhat familiar 16:39
Coke_ nothingmuch: where in NY? 16:49
[particle] wonders who here is familiar with generators 16:52
iterators in parrot are bothering me 16:53
we have continuations, we should be using generators instead
but i need some help in applying the concept, since i don't know the lisp family of languages 16:54
pmurias particle: generators also appear in python... 16:56
[particle] i need some help with design issues 16:59
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pmurias i'm probably not much help as i have never really used them 17:07
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nothingmuch Coke_: my hotel is near central park, on the west 17:13
i'm going to walk around in t he day
see museums and stuff at random
tonight i'm going to the tonic
tomorrow night i don't know what i'll do yet
[particle] ooh, tonic.
nothingmuch maybe the village vanguard 17:14
[particle] my old hood
nothingmuch and sunday night i'm going back
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rindolf Hi all. 17:14
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[particle] nm: been to nyc before? 17:15
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TimToady morning everyone 17:17
dmq morning
qmole morning
rindolf Hi TimToady
TimToady guten abent, dmq
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rindolf Hi dmq, qmole 17:18
diakopter howdy TimToday
qmole is glad it isn't morning. it's weekend now!
diakopter TimToady; sorry
rindolf Hi diakopter
dmq guten abend. but im not german, so its ok. i do much worse. :-)
[particle] ~~ at non-lingual dmq 17:19
REPLeffect Morning TimToady
dmq heh 17:20
so does that mean friday just started for you, or its saturday now? (can never remember) 17:22
TimToady California is pretty much behind everyone, so it's still Friday
except for HI and AK
dmq TGIF :-)
17:23 mdiep joined
dmq poets day! 17:23
TimToady that's easy enough for you to say on the other end of it...
qmole hmm 17:24
TimToady hmm? 17:25
qmole funnily enough, the only wall clock in our office is set to california time
looks like -8
TimToady I'm always living with wall time...
qmole heh
REPLeffect I believe it is 9:25, isn't it?
TimToady close enough as makes no matter 17:26
(which phrase is *not* native Californian unless you're an Okie)
REPLeffect from Muscogie? 17:27
[particle] the californians follow up with 'dude'
TimToady only the surfer dudes, dude!
actually, dude has become another four-letter word now. 17:28
dmq "poets day" == "piss off early tomorrows saturday"
TimToady Dude! only the surfer dudes, dude!
dmq an old boss told me a dude is pimple on a horses bum.
REPLeffect So, its usage is like some people use the f-word, eh? 17:29
TimToady horses don't come with bums here
REPLeffect The all-encompassing adjective.
dmq i took this to mean he didnt like me reffering to him as dude. :-)
REPLeffect dude.
qmole poets-s
have a good friday
[particle] if wishes were horses, beggars would ride
TimToady as far as I know dude has not yet got all the verbal forms
[particle] dude me!
that doesn't really work, does it 17:30
REPLeffect The all encompassing interjection? :-)
TimToady Cultural leadership is the price Californians pay for lagging in everything else. 17:31
[particle] i spent forever in a kinkos there one day 17:32
REPLeffect There are so many jokes that could be made about that statement...
... I don't know where to start :-)
TimToady well, most of them would be copies anyway 17:33
[particle] then my work is done
TimToady hard to come up with an original joke about Kinkos
[particle] i can come up with an original copy
ah, rats. i thought it was an original copy, but it's a genuine facsimilie 17:34
REPLeffect (still trying to figure out where to start)
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TimToady I once had some shoes made out of genuine porvair leather.
I was trying to figure out if that was a 0 or an O...
17:35 bernhard joined
REPLeffect still scanning the joke landscape. 17:35
trying to make the portrait of a perfect joke.
and send it in a letter.
TimToady that would make you some kind of terrorist 17:36
since the perfect joke is not survivable
REPLeffect only if I used a typewriter.
[particle] you'd have to sign it UNAJOKER 17:37
diakopter climbs down the pun chain, slowly
REPLeffect that'd make me a copy-cat.
appropriate for kinkos.
genuine facscimile -- isn't that like "genuine diamels"? 17:40
or is that diameles?
[particle] that's pure speculation 17:44
17:46 mdiep joined
TimToady anyway, before I wander off, did anyone have any questions about Perl 6 (the language aspiring to be the perfect joke)? 17:49
kolibrie TimToady: I did have one question about that 'for' loop with an if in it, from yesterday 17:50
does that make it act like grep?
TimToady yes, grep is just another list comprehension syntax.
kolibrie that's what I thought, but it was not obvious, so I thought I'd better check 17:51
TimToady except grep is limited to returning the exact values it got, and the more general forms can return something related instead.
(without mutating $_) 17:52
kolibrie ah, right
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avar TimToady: You've probably been asked this before, but what was the problem you were solving that led to what hashes in p5 are in scalar context?:) 18:02
TimToady the problem of figuring out how many hash table entries were being used. :) 18:04
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avar TimToady: hehe:) 18:06
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Coke_ TimToady: I had a question. 18:23
in tcl, you can set a proc to fire when entering or leaving a user defined procedure. In perl6, looks like PRE and POST are the hooks here. is there a way to specify this *after* the sub is declared?
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Coke_ also, in tcl, you can additionally have something fire before/after each *line* of the sub. any interest in that level of granularity for Perl 6? 18:24
(in tcl, you can't do any of this when you define the sub, you have to tack it on.)
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jdv79 is there anything like java's annotations in p6? 18:44
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TimToady I'm not familiar with java's annotations 18:51
PRE and POST and all the other blocks are just traits that can be modified
though you might just want ENTER and LEAVE blocks unless you're doing DBC
the line-by-line stuff sounds like something that should have to be declared in advance as a pessimization. 18:52
either that, or the run-time has to pessimize the code when you supply such a property, and that potentially poses problems if some code is running optimized versions already. 18:53
though for at least some kinds of code it doesn't matter if you're running two different code paths 18:55
I can imagine some optimizations that depend on outside invariants that the pessimization might vary though.
18:56 pdcawley joined 18:57 pdcawley joined 19:00 rindolf joined
rindolf Hi all. 19:00
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TimToady it would be rather unfortunate if the optimized and pessimized versions kept a given state variable in two different places, for instance. 19:08
jdv79 sorta gotcha, thanks 19:09
TimToady but we probably have to solve this for using a debugger anyway...
I assume that's the primary use of Tcl's every-line hook 19:10
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dmq timtoady: it just occured to me, if the [ in <+[ is mandatory, then i dont have to change the meaning of (?+ or (?- since for it to be relative goto/recursion it would have to be numeric. 19:12
[particle] dmq: you can add with named rules, too, not just charclasses
eg: <+foo-[abc]>
dmq is that relevent in p5 tho? 19:13
is there an equivelent p5 structure id need to use?
[particle] you said <+[, i assumed you meant p6
dmq trying to make p5's forthcoming enhanced class syntax as close as possible to p6. 19:14
(? in p5 is < in p6
[particle] identifiers can't start with a number
dmq btw, wasnt trying to be snarky. it was an honest question. 19:15
oh sweet.
yay i dont have to worry about changing (?+1) then
cool.
[particle] (?+...) is now a multimethod :) 19:16
dmq ah. 19:17
diotalevi multimethods for everyone!
dmq so since (?+[ is unambiguous, i can use it, as well as (?[...]) and (?-[...]) for extended char classes. whee!
[particle] it's a bit confusing, but there are more confusing things in perl 5
diotalevi :-) btw, I think I'm going to make that ref/defined multimethod promoting thing into Acme::Builtin::Multimethod just because I don't want anyone to expect me to support it. 19:18
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lichtkind good nicght saviours of the world :) 21:04
moritz lichtkind: 'nacht ;) 21:06
rindolf lichtkind: night. 21:10
lichtkind :) 21:11
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pdcawley wonders if anyone else has seen Ian Piumarta's talk at Stannford about Coke & Pepsi? 21:50
moritz certainly not ;) 21:54
it's just estimated 8*10^6 m away ;)
svnbot6 r15274 | lwall++ | operator precedence now supplied as return type autocoercions 21:58
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TimToady n 22:00
or maybe y
nwc10 junctions - the practical alternative to committing to a decision. :-) 22:01
TimToady lazy unification, yum 22:02
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svnbot6 r15275 | lwall++ | more precedence cleanup 22:10
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rindolf perlbot: karma lwall 22:15
perlbot Karma for lwall: 12
jabbot rindolf: lwall has karma of 166
diakopter karma larry 22:18
jabbot diakopter: larry has karma of 7
TimToady that and $1.50 will buy me a cup of coffee. :) 22:19
diakopter karma autrijius 22:20
jabbot diakopter: autrijius has neutral karma
diakopter karma autrijus
jabbot diakopter: autrijus has karma of 574
nwc10 you can't get a sponsorship/endorsement deal on coffee?
:-(
diakopter karma autrija
jabbot diakopter: autrija has neutral karma
TimToady not after they find out I have high blood pressure...
diakopter karma autrijum 22:21
jabbot diakopter: autrijum has neutral karma
rindolf karma autrijus
jabbot rindolf: autrijus has karma of 574
rindolf karma shlomif
jabbot rindolf: shlomif has neutral karma
moritz karma rindolf 22:23
jabbot moritz: rindolf has neutral karma
TimToady perlbot: karma karma 22:31
perlbot Karma for karma: 33
jabbot TimToady: karma has neutral karma
svnbot6 r15276 | lwall++ | parse delegation
TimToady nap++ 22:32
karma nap
jabbot TimToady: nap has karma of 1
TimToady good enough for me
nap &
rindolf TimToady: enjoy! 22:33
Limbic_Region out of curiosity, anyone here use oz/motzart/alice ? 22:35
rindolf Limbic_Region: what are they? 22:36
Limbic_Region they are programming languages 22:37
primary interest is concurrency and constraints 22:38
rindolf Limbic_Region: I see.
First time I recall hearing of them.
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Limbic_Region diotalevi turned me on to them 22:40
I was thinking of prolog but it sounds like these are better
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lumi_ Limbic_Region: I'm reading about it, trying to find an edge 22:45
Limbic_Region I just downloaded and installed alice
my first program is going to be a magic square solver
once I figure out how
Limbic_Region never learned ML 22:46
rindolf Limbic_Region: I've worked a bit with O'Caml and SML.
Limbic_Region: I have the Graham Function program in O'Caml too.
Limbic_Region heh, turns out they have a magic square solver in the samples directory
rindolf Limbic_Region: heh. 22:47
Limbic_Region: write a program to calculate the Graham function then.
:-)
I have it in O'Caml, Perl 5 (on CPAN too), Perl 6, and Common Lisp.
pdcawley LR: I've been looking at the Oz book. 22:48
Looks interesting.
Limbic_Region pdcawley - alice is just the next generation of Oz 22:52
and yes, looks interesting
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GeJ morning lambdam􏿽xF8􏿽xF8se 23:05
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Limbic_Region in any case, it looks more complicated then copying/pasting my real problem so back burnered until at least 2007-03-19 23:05
eric256 has anyone been able to get the AJAX version of the "Run Perl Now" script to work? it always hangs on me and says it took to long to complete, while the non-ajax version works fine 23:07
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