»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
AlexDaniel Xliff: not really, show us some code! 00:00
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Xliff AlexDanie: gist.github.com/Xliff/4a5418933efc...10a6c45a6a 00:42
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AlexDaniel Xliff: and the input file? 00:47
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Xliff Look at this gist for an example. Check the string at the bottom. gist.github.com/Xliff/fef6642960e6...42d9b71914 00:51
input file is filtered for blocks of that form and then passed to the grammar. 00:52
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Xliff s/and/and the results/ 00:52
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AlexDaniel committable6: stdin gist.githubusercontent.com/AlexDan...f17c/input 00:55
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committable6 AlexDaniel, STDIN is set to «XSLTPUBFUN void XSLTCALL␤ xsltApplyAttributeSet (xsltTransformContextPtr ctxt,␤ xmlNodePtr node,␤ xmlNodePtr inst,␤ const xmlChar *attributes);» 00:55
AlexDaniel, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL.
AlexDaniel committable6: gist.githubusercontent.com/AlexDan...7c/code.p6
committable6: HEAD gist.githubusercontent.com/AlexDan...7c/code.p6
committable6 AlexDaniel, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL.
AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/2a0a5dc93e030e0be8...4ba14bf2ff
AlexDaniel dang it
committable6: HEAD gist.githubusercontent.com/AlexDan...9e/code.p6 00:56
committable6 AlexDaniel, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL.
AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/efecfbbf285055e8ca...da59b1cabd
AlexDaniel so the first error is about Nil…
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AlexDaniel Xliff: $<typePrefix> is nill 00:58
Nil*
I know it's not relevant, but come on… it's the first error :) 00:59
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AlexDaniel Xliff: to fix it I guess you have to use @!params 01:02
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AlexDaniel but I'm not sure why 01:03
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Vynce_ perl6: say so <a b c>.any eqv all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any) 01:22
camelia rakudo-jvm 8d357a, rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«True␤»
Vynce_ perl6: say so <a b c>.any eqv any(all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any))
camelia rakudo-jvm 8d357a, rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«False␤»
Vynce_ wtf
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Vynce perldoc junctions traps 01:26
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Vynce welp. will document, i guess. 01:42
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MasterDuke Vynce: some discussion with TimToady about junctions that might be relevant: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-08-21#i_13061694 01:52
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Vynce i'm aware of not-raising (which is also counterinuitive to me in code, fwiw) but this isn't that. 01:59
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BenGoldberg perl6: dd <a b c>.any eqv any(all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any)) 02:13
camelia rakudo-jvm 8d357a, rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«any(any(all(any(Bool::False, Bool::False), any(Bool::False, Bool::False))), any(all(any(Bool::True, Bool::False), any(Bool::False, Bool::False))), any(all(any(Bool::False, Bool::False), any(Bool::True, Bool::False))))␤»
Vynce does that help? ( : 02:14
BenGoldberg On the one hand, I can see why that boolifies to False. 02:15
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BenGoldberg 's not sure why the other boolified to True, yet, still thinking. 02:16
perl6: dd <a b c>.any eqv all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any)
camelia rakudo-jvm 8d357a, rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«all(any(any(Bool::False, Bool::False), any(Bool::True, Bool::False), any(Bool::False, Bool::False)), any(any(Bool::False, Bool::False), any(Bool::False, Bool::False), any(Bool::True, Bool::False)))␤»
Vynce False is the expectation, to my brain.
but $X ~~ $Y !== $X ~~ any($Y) is ... counterintuitive. 02:17
BenGoldberg perl6: dd .eqv all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any) for <a b c>
camelia rakudo-jvm 8d357a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3dd .eqv7⏏5 all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any) for <a b c>␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ …»
..rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3dd .eqv7⏏5 all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any) for <a b c>␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ …»
BenGoldberg m: dd .eqv: all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any) for <a b c> 02:18
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«No such method 'eqv' for invocant of type 'Str'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: dd $_ eqv all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any) for <a b c>
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«all(any(Bool::False, Bool::False), any(Bool::False, Bool::False))␤all(any(Bool::True, Bool::False), any(Bool::False, Bool::False))␤all(any(Bool::False, Bool::False), any(Bool::True, Bool::False))␤»
BenGoldberg m: say so $_ eqv all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any) for <a b c>
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«False␤False␤False␤»
BenGoldberg m: say so <a b c>.any eqv $_ for <b y>.any, <c z>.any 02:20
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«True␤True␤»
BenGoldberg Aha, the right side of eqv is autothreading before the left side, and since all(True, True) is true, the output is true. 02:21
Vynce i don't know what you mean by "before" here.
BenGoldberg m: say so <a b c>.any eqv all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any) 02:22
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«True␤»
BenGoldberg m: say so all(<b y>.any, <c z>.any) eqv <a b c>.any
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«True␤»
BenGoldberg Hmm, or maybe not.
I'm confused.
Vynce I kindof understand what's going on. I don't understand it well enough to explain it in terms of the language, though. ( : 02:23
the real surprise to me was that adding a pointyblock with the all in it didn't "fix" my problem; I had to -> Str $letter {} wrap it, because the pointy is perfectly happy to accept the junction as the implicit argument 02:25
but yes, this is equivalent to "ALL(<abc> overlap <by>, <abc> overlap <cz>)" vs "some one (or more) of <abc> overlap ALL(<by>, <cz>)" 02:27
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Xliff AlexDaniel: Dammit. I missed the Nil message because it was mixed in with the output from Grammar::Tracer 02:37
Thanks.
m: my $a; say $a:v; 02:39
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$a:v' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $a; say 7⏏5$a:v;␤»
Xliff Is there a way to combine a Nil check and string compare in an elegant manner without having to use .defined? 02:43
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geekosaur m: say so (Nil // 'a') eq 'a' 02:49
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«True␤»
geekosaur m: say so ('c' // 'a') eq 'a'
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«False␤»
Xliff AH! I keep forgetting // 02:50
geekosaur++
AlexDaniel: OK, so I have fixed the Nil issue, but I am still getting the positionals error.
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Xliff The problem here is the magic in Grammars. I cannot see what is getting passed to the action method, so I can't effectively debug the issue. 02:54
According to everything I've read, methods on Action classes always have signature ($/), and grammars always call the method name that corresponds to the matching rule. 02:56
AlexDaniel Xliff: it's not related to grammars
Xliff Then what is it related to.
AlexDaniel Xliff: your problem is with accessing @!params
irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-11-11#i_13548322
change @.params to @!params and the problem goes away, but I have no idea why to be hones 02:57
t
Xliff :-O
Oh that is soooo LTA.
AlexDaniel yes maybe it is 02:58
Xliff AlexDaniel++
AlexDaniel I mean, it definitely is…
Xliff That error message has me chasing the wrong thing.
Which is seriously bad.
But problem solved. Thank you.
AlexDaniel Xliff: it would've been cool if you figured out why is this happening 03:03
m: grammar Foommar { rule TOP { ‘a’ } }; class Fooctions { has @.blah; method TOP($/) { push @.blah, 42 } }; say Foommar.parse(‘a’, :actions(Fooctions.new))
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤»
AlexDaniel that seems to work
Xliff AlexDaniel: I will circle back and try, but I have another priority. 03:04
Namely getting this working.
Another piece of weirdness. I have this at the top of a method: my $tp = $/<typePrefix>.defined ?? $/<typePrefix>.made !! ''; 03:12
Yet there are code paths where $tp is Any 03:13
O I C
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Xliff OK. Its working now. Still trying to figure out why I need to do $/[0].Str to extract the value from a Match object. 03:27
Juerd As opposed to what else? 03:34
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MasterDuke nqp: if "a1b2" ~~ /(.)/ { say("matched: " ~ $/[0]) } 04:42
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«matched: ␤»
MasterDuke ^^^ what am i doing wrong?
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geekosaur nqp doesn't appear to set $/ at all 04:46
perlawhirl m: say (:this(3.5) :that(5.3)) 04:50
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
yoleaux 4 Nov 2016 12:51Z <gfldex> perlawhirl: objects can be made aware of being subscripted with class C { method subscript(|c){ say "subscript of: ", c.perl } }; multi sub postcircumfix:<[ ]>(C:D \SELF, \pos){ SELF.subscript(pos) }; C.new.[1,42];
perlawhirl interesting bug
m: say (:this(3) :that(5)) # works fine with ints
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«(this => 3 that => 5)␤»
perlawhirl m: say (:this(3.5), :that(5.3)) # worsk fine with comma
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«(this => 3.5 that => 5.3)␤»
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seatek anyone know if any of the module http servers can handle https? 05:11
MasterDuke geekosaur: it doesn't seem to do so for regexes, but it does for grammars, it's used in the nqp source itself
(however i just want to use a quick regex) 05:12
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dalek c: 8c05697 | coke++ | xt/code.pws:
ignore new code
 05:33
perlawhirl FYI: I rakudobug'd the above #130069 05:35
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=130069
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seatek wow - Using Crust modules - HTTP::Server::Tiny getting ~80 requests/sec (just printing hello).. but when using SCGI getting about 340 requests/sec 06:53
Concurrent requests on HTTP::Server::Tiny kill it if you have more than 15 ... 06:56
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Xliff Hrm. How do I specify a literal '$' in a qq:TO// heredoc? 07:08
seatek Is the '\' not working?
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Xliff Nope. 07:10
The entire heredoc is breaking my code. Weird. 07:12
seatek I just tried it and it works 07:13
Maybe you're doing something funny?
qq:to/HERE/; 07:14
Then whatever \$you want
HERE
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seatek I think you have to watch out for mustaches too 07:16
can't remember all the qq qw combos ;)
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Xliff Well. I will have to gist and let you see what I am talking about. 07:17
gist.github.com/Xliff/517baac50d57...3a9af11c9f 07:20
I am too tired to convert that into a standalone.
I will update it later with a better use case.
Now I must sleep.
BTW - seatek: qq == Double quoted heredoc. 07:21
seatek you've got lots of $'s that you didn't \$ on!
oh that's what you want
Xliff Those are supposed to be there.
Yes! ;)
seatek where' sit go bad?
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Xliff Just about everywhere. 07:25
parser treats much of the heredoc as code instead of... a heredoc.
seatek I think you have to put <> hash stuff in {} blocks
Xliff Hmm....
I do that, then the parser comes back with "Confused"
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Xliff Yup. 07:26
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Xliff And there is no reason it should be confused. 07:26
Let me rakudobrew and see if there was a fixed bug in the parser.
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seatek that's pretty weird. i've been playing with it, assigning some of those variables... 07:28
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Xliff seatek: Are you seeing it too, then? 07:31
seatek yes it's like ignoring the qq:to// thang
Xliff Yup!
seatek you broke perl 07:32
Xliff Even replacing the qq:to// with " will generate the same errors!!!
Xliff points to himself and says "YOU BASTARD!"
seatek it's like magic words that can't be ignored
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Xliff So yeah. I'mma call it a night. 07:33
Take care, seatek.
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seatek k - nite Xliff 07:33
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Ulti kyclark if you wanted more structure in there you could maybe create a markov chain of the probability of one kmer following another 07:57
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dataf3l after some googling, I’m still confused as to how to define a variable with type: array of strings, something like an ArrayList<String> in java. is that even possible? 09:58
DrForr my Str @arr;
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dataf3l COOL! :) 09:59
seatek m: my Str @a; @a[1] = False; 10:00
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to @a; expected Str but got Bool (Bool::False)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
dataf3l Thank you, DrForr
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DrForr Man, I've got a bad sense of timing. Howdy, obra 10:01
obra Hey DrForr (irssi died. autojoin ftw)
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DrForr Finally decided to check out the dark side, eh? I've got to get lunch but I'll be back in a few. 10:03
obra heh. nah. this is my usual setup. just bad luck
DrForr Right, no worries. 10:04
obra :)
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seatek Dealing with this "circular module loading" is not always easy! 10:57
it's not circular... it's... thorough... ;)
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seatek m: class A::B::C { has $.d }; my $z = A::B::C.new; say so $z.^name ~~ /A\:\:B/; 11:04
camelia rakudo-moar d989d9: OUTPUT«True␤»
seatek anyone know of a better way to do that? I can't use just the ~~ against the raw base class name, because it requires that you "use" that module, and that results in the horrifying "circularity" 11:05
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timotimo you can .isa("Foo" 11:06
)
it's extremely slow
but it should to be right
seatek think it would be slower than that regex?
timotimo no
seatek hehe ok 11:07
i'll try that thanks timotimo++ :)
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TimToady Xliff: qq interpolates {} as well as $ so maybe you want qs instead, or use q and then force interpolation with \qq[$f] 11:14
timotimo oh hey TimToady. any clue on whether .chrs should also support lists of Strs-that-look-like-Ints? 11:17
(like what you'd get if you >>.base(16)'d a bunch of Ints 11:18
for example)
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TimToady with what semantics? 11:21
timotimo it'd .Int.chr elements that can't be nqp::chr'd immediately 11:22
TimToady oh, you said chrs, not chr...not awake yet... 11:23
sure, it'd be fine if chrs coerced each value to integer
timotimo yay
i have Word Of God and now can start implementing
when it asplodes, should it "fail" instead of throwing exceptions, just like it currently does when something's not-an-int? 11:24
well, prefix-+ already fails. so i just return that if it's a failure
TimToady seems reasonable here; it's not like we're likely to blow up someone's parallel algorithm this way 11:26
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timotimo i haven't worked with roast much since the errata/non-errata split ... where do i put tests for this new behaviour? 11:29
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timotimo oh, another thing: :16(*) producing a WhateverCode equivalent to {:16($_)}, yea or nay? 11:32
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moritz timotimo: tests for new behvior go iint the master branch 11:35
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timotimo looks if an existing spec test breaks 11:39
cool, it's cleant 11:42
clean*
er, but i'm on the master branch probably
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timotimo how should i run these? spectest.data would probably have to be different, no? 11:43
lizmat timotimo: no
just do make spectest :-) 11:44
still, new behaviour, isn't that supposed to be 6.d ?
just playing devil's advocate (again)
timotimo *shrug*
lizmat because it feels to me we're getting further and further away from a language spec and jfdi :-) 11:45
*instead
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timotimo seems like, yeah 11:45
really, to get all these things that have since been added, you ought to be using something like 6.d.1 or what we call those 11:46
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dalek c: bae5700 | timotimo++ | doc/Language/5to6-perlfunc.pod6:
mention prefix:<+> alternative for perl5:<oct>
 11:53
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-perlfunc
jnthn Language versions are just snapshots of the spectest suite. So whenever you add a test to master, you're writing part of the spec that will make up the next language version. 11:54
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dalek c: f6daf45 | timotimo++ | doc/Type/Int.pod6:
mention :16("f00") and :100[1,2,3] in Int's class doc
 11:56
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Int
jnthn It'll always be the case that implementation and bleading edge use will precede having a "use 6.x" to write in order to be sure that feature is present. 11:57
Right now, there's just a high incentive to use bleading edge versions due to improving performance, many fixes, etc. 11:58
timotimo mhm
it seems we don't have a perl6 specified thingie for UNBASE aka radix notation with variable radix ":$foo($bar)" 12:06
well, we do have +":$foo\<$bar>" 12:07
but ... ugh :)
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masak today's mini-challenge: read in a bunch of numbers; output mean value and standard deviation. 12:31
handling edge cases (such as too few numbers) is optional.
strive towards clear, elegant code more than anything else. 12:32
(and I won't mind it if we end up in a discussion about whether it should be `$N` or `$N - 1` in the denominator) :P
hi, #perl6
timotimo m: my @nums = <1 4 9 8 7 6 0 1 9 4 5>; say "mean: ", ([+] @nums) / @nums.elems // 'no numbers'; say "median: ", @nums.sort[* div 2]; say "i don't do std dev." 12:33
camelia rakudo-moar 9a6ad4: OUTPUT«mean: 4.909091␤median: 5␤i don't do std dev.␤»
timotimo m: my @nums = <1>; say "mean: ", ([+] @nums) / @nums.elems // 'no numbers'; say "median: ", @nums.sort[* div 2]; say "i don't do std dev."
camelia rakudo-moar 9a6ad4: OUTPUT«mean: 1␤median: 1␤i don't do std dev.␤»
timotimo m: my @nums = (); say "mean: ", ([+] @nums) / @nums.elems // 'no numbers'; say "median: ", @nums.sort[* div 2]; say "i don't do std dev."
camelia rakudo-moar 9a6ad4: OUTPUT«Attempt to divide by zero using div␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
timotimo m: my @nums = (); say "mean: ", ([+] @nums) / @nums.elems || 'no numbers'; say "median: ", @nums.sort[* div 2]; say "i don't do std dev."
camelia rakudo-moar 9a6ad4: OUTPUT«Attempt to divide by zero using div␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
timotimo m: my @nums = (); say "mean: ", ([+] @nums) / @nums.elems orelse say 'no numbers'; say "median: ", @nums.sort[* div 2]; say "i don't do std dev."
camelia rakudo-moar 9a6ad4: OUTPUT«Attempt to divide by zero using div␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
timotimo i can't defuse it? :\ 12:34
masak that's unexpected.
timotimo BBL 12:35
jnthn orelse is low prec, maybe it needs more parents 12:36
*parens
MasterDuke github.com/MattOates/Stats
masak m: my @t = <75.033 72.302 72.602 72.637 72.208 72.756 72.541 73.000 72.834 73.604>; sub mean { [+](@t) / @t }; say mean; say sqrt(1/(@t - 1) * [+] @t.map: { ($_ - mean) * ($_ - mean) }) 12:39
camelia rakudo-moar 9a6ad4: OUTPUT«72.9517␤0.828451708510118␤»
masak my submission :)
hm...
m: my @t = <75.033 72.302 72.602 72.637 72.208 72.756 72.541 73.000 72.834 73.604>; sub mean { [+](@t) / @t }; say mean; say sqrt 1/(@t - 1) * [+] @t.map: { ($_ - mean) * ($_ - mean) } # fewer parens
camelia rakudo-moar 9a6ad4: OUTPUT«72.9517␤0.828451708510118␤»
jnthn Why ($_ - mean) * ($_ - mean) instead of ($_ - mean) ** 2 ? :) 12:46
masak jnthn: some kind of superstition, I think
jnthn Just felt nice to me using explicit squaring then sqrt is also being used :)
Also means you can probably write @t.map: (* - mean) ** 2 12:47
To declutter it some further :)
masak m: my @t = <75.033 72.302 72.602 72.637 72.208 72.756 72.541 73.000 72.834 73.604>; sub mean { [+](@t) / @t }; say mean; say sqrt 1/(@t - 1) * [+] @t.map: (* - mean) ** 2
camelia rakudo-moar 9a6ad4: OUTPUT«72.9517␤0.828451708510118␤»
masak lookitthat
getting really nice now :)
yeah, that's really not a lot of code for stddev. cool. 12:48
that statement does the listop thing 4 times, if I count correctly :) 12:49
arnsholt Perl 6 hasn't specced a mean function, has it? 12:50
masak no, but somehow I don't mind defining it every time 12:51
"mean value" is one of those concepts that can be argued many ways
or at least "average" is
arnsholt Well, arithmetic mean then, if you will =) 12:52
Apparently the algorithm for calculating it accurately with floats is *not* sum(@values)/+@values
moritz m: my @a = 1..5; say sum(@a) / @a
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«3␤»
arnsholt Because numerical stability
moritz fuck those floats
arnsholt Quite =D
masak lately I've come to the opposite conclusion
after having used floats a bit more
floats are *massively* misunderstood 12:53
arnsholt Yeah, that's more than likely
masak and people end up in trouble for many reasons, but most often because they shouldn't have used floats in the first place
12:53 itaipu left
masak it's like, people enter a contract which they don't read 12:53
arnsholt Yeah, that's definitely true
masak and then they're upset when the terms are upheld like the contract states
moritz which we don't even do, in real life, right? 12:54
arnsholt Heh
masak :)
moritz like, do you always read the TOS when you sign for your credit or debit card?
masak .oO( never! -- never? -- well, hardly ever! )
masak .oO( arithmetic meanness ) 12:55
moritz if I were just a bit more contrarian, I'd *always* pay with debit card, and *always* read the whole thing before signing
masak it doesn't take much to conclude that reading through the whole thing is actually the right thing to do, even though basically no-one does 12:56
moritz just to annoy the cashier and the people behind me in the line
masak: there are valid arguments against that. Consumer protection laws, for example
masak "no no, wait, this is important! I'm on page 24."
moritz (I'm talking about the case where you sign the bill, not where you sign up for a new credit card) 12:57
also there is some kind of agency that coordinates all Electronic Cash payments in .de, and it imposes rules on the participating shops
arnsholt You get a ToS document when paying by card in Germany? 12:58
Pretty sure we don't get that here
moritz one of them being that you can't have a lower limit for EC transactions, but I hope they also have rules that you can't screw over people when they pay
arnsholt: here it's a legal disclaimer on the back of the receipt 12:59
arnsholt Ah
moritz arnsholt: and if you pay with debit card, you either have to enter a PIN or sign
(but not your choice, it's the shop's choice)
bilder.t-online.de/b/41/56/13/42/id.../index.jpg that's what it looks like 13:00
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arnsholt I'm not sure who chooses here. But signature is basically never used, except when the payment terminal can't reach the bank servers 13:00
Yeah, we don't do that 13:01
masak interesting. I like in a country much like arnsholt's :P 13:05
arnsholt Who'd a thunk it? =D
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mscha m: say 4 ~~ 1,3...Inf; # that's odd... 13:23
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
mscha m: say "yes" if 4 ~~ 1,3...Inf; # that's odd...
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«yes␤»
masak mscha: precedence
infix:<...> is very loose
m: say "yes" if 4 ~~ (1,3...Inf) 13:24
camelia ( no output )
mscha m: say "yes" if 4 ~~ (1,3...Inf); # that's even...
camelia ( no output )
masak needs parentheses for a lot of things
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masak m: class C { method fool-me() { state $fooled-once = False; die "fool me can't fool me again" if $fooled-once++; say "fool me once, shame on me" } }; C.fool-me for ^2 13:29
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«fool me once, shame on me␤fool me can't fool me again␤ in method fool-me at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
masak just had some use for this pattern
kind of a singleton method call :>
viki timotimo, FWIW, ISAGN for radix sub/method. It'd just be two lines of code caaling nqp::radix or whatever it is too.
The :16(x) thing feels very awkward as a generic way to conver and more of a way to write a literal 13:30
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moritz masak: as a safeguard to the destroy-earth method? 13:35
:-) 13:36
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masak moritz: the method in question is called .bootstrap, on a small MOP I'm writing 13:44
viki m: "42".base: 3 13:45
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«No such method 'base' for invocant of type 'Str'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
masak moritz: though I ended up doing it on a different criterion (whether the type registry is empty)
m: 42.base: 3
camelia ( no output )
masak m: say 42.base: 3
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«1120␤»
masak viki: there's a bit of a "resistance" in place for .base, so that people don't accidentally re-base strings which are already in some base 13:46
i.e. .base wants to make sure the user realizes that this is Real --> Str, not Str --> Str or something else
viki I see 13:47
m: say :16<FF> 13:49
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«255␤»
viki "FF".base(16) -> 255
Is that too confusing?
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masak viki: oh yes 13:50
viki OK :)
masak see, that's not what .base does at all
viki hasn't woken up yet
masak disregarding non-Ints for a while, 13:51
.base takes an *Int* (which you can think of as having no intrinsic base representation) and renders it as a Str in some base
viki Takes a Real 13:52
m: say pi.base: 16
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«3.243F6B␤»
masak point still holds for Reals
viki which is pretty weird
masak one of the quirks of Perl 5 base conversion -- which I'm glad we avoided to a large extent -- is that `bin()`, `oct()` and `hex()` tempt you into thinking of them as `to_bin()` etc
but they're actually `from_bin()` etc 13:53
arnsholt viki: Why is that weird? Positional notation is the same regardless of base
masak in Perl 6, converting *from* a base is a special syntax, and converting to a base is a method conveniently called `.base`
viki masak: I'd say in Perl 6, converting *from* a base—as a generic thing—is a *hack* that involves abusing string interpolation. 13:54
We don't have anything to convert $x in radix $r to, say, base 10 representation.,
m: my $x = "FF"; my $r = 16; say +":$r\<$x>" 13:56
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«255␤»
MasterDuke m: my $x = "FF"; my $r = 16; say :$r<<$x>> 13:57
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«((Mu))␤»
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viki m: say .15.base: 16 13:58
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«0.266666␤»
viki arnsholt: dunno, just doesn't fit my brain :)
masak viki: for the few cases when this is needed, how about putting the hack in a local sub? I see what you're saying, and yes it *is* a hack, but it's one of those <1% things that maybe doesn't need fixing globally
viki .1 is what... "one sixteenth"?
MasterDuke m: my $x = "FF"; my $r = 16; say :$r«$x»
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«((Mu))␤»
masak MasterDuke: :$r«$x» doesn't mean what you think it does 13:59
MasterDuke: so, yes, viki is right as far as that goes
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MasterDuke masak: yeah, i thought there was some way that didn't involve that string interpolation, but i guess not 14:00
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viki masak: I think your <1% is underestimating the real numbers. I wrote little Perl 6 code in my life and I have a module that needs that feature. I've seen at least a couple of people ask for it on IRC. And there's a Twitter thread mocking our hack: twitter.com/wonkden/status/797011467530801152 14:00
arnsholt viki: 3.244F6B is simply 3 + 2*16**-1 + 4*16**-2 + 4*16**-3 + :16<F>*16**-5 ...
viki masak: I'd think it's as common as .base
14:01 skids left
viki arnsholt: ok, now it kinda fell into place and I understand why base 16 pie is "larger" than base 10 14:02
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viki masak: I mean, even the hack aside, the :16<FF> notation is weird and jarring. There's little to compare to it with the rest of Perl 6 code. 14:03
masak viki: I can't recall ever having an actual use case where I needed the base to vary
viki It wants to be a method on Str.
masak: I use it in my Color module to convert dec to hex and back 14:04
masak viki: agree as far as that goes. I don't think I'd mind if it were a method on Str -- as long as it doesn't increase the confusion I meantioned above
viki "FF" -> 255
masak: what would be a good name? What do you think of Str.radix?
masak viki: but there the base takes on two fixed values
viki vike: right, true. I misremembered about needing the hack, but I recall the :16($str) being a weird thing to write. 14:05
masak viki: .base and .radix don't have anything to distinguish them -- you can't tell which one is Str --> Real and which is Real --> Str
moritz .format-base
viki masak: fair enough
masak viki: it's weird; the syntax has been "stolen" for that use. but once you get over that, it does fit quite nicely.
moritz .parse-base
viki +1 on .parse-base
moritz masak: the problem with the syntax is that it doesn't work well if your base is in a variable
Str.parse-base, Int.format-base 14:06
masak moritz: yes, as discussed above :) 14:07
moritz: I like those two suggestions.
viki With .format-base being a replacement for .base? 14:08
moritz or an alias 14:09
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masak AngularJS has a pair of things that it calls format/parse, so it's instantly recognizable to me. 14:10
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tadzik ...spherical earth sucks 14:38
timotimo you don't have to believe the earth is spherical
c'mon, you don't want to be a Globetard, do you? 14:39
tadzik it's worse, I'm a programmer :(
I'm writing a geocaching app
doing the "get the bearing from my position to a place X" and so
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eythian great circle distance and bearing calculation functions are surely all over the palce 14:39
tadzik and it sometimes comes out off, like when I'm south of something it'll tell me to go south to reach it 14:40
and I keep checking the order of arguments and so, and now it hit me: it's not wrong
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eythian I suppose that works if you don't mind taking the scenic route :) 14:40
tadzik it may take me a few years to go all around the earth, but it's not wrong
now I am impressed that it's ever actually right, since really any bearing would be correct unless it's a right angle 14:41
eythian: yes, exactly :o how do you deal with this? 14:42
eythian depends on your algorithm I guess. I've never implemented one myself, so I not really speaking from a position of expertise :) 14:43
tadzik I'm ripping off wikipedia tbh :P en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuth#Calc...ng_azimuth
masak tadzik: I've been thinking a lot about spheres lately too 14:44
mspo en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijkstra%27s_algorithm ?
tadzik mspo: well, that'd require representing earth as a graph 14:46
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masak mspo: that's one of the most unexpected suggestions I've heard :P 14:46
jnthn Just cover the globe in a graph of lattitude/longitude lines. :P 14:47
moritz thought of a node for each atom, and edges for k nearest neighbours 14:48
timotimo that'll help
jnthn Their intersections are graph nodes :P
But yeah, there's surely a better way :)
masak tadzik: I think you would enjoy the "Hairy ball theorem" :)
timotimo :D
perlpilot Math::Trig has great circle distance and related stuffs 14:49
tadzik I think for this one time I'm gonna be the flat earthist 14:50
but hey, I learned something today
once again, trying to make your programming actually reflect reality is a path to pain and suffering 14:51
masak +1 14:53
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tadzik also, now I can replace all this complicated math with one atan() :> 14:54
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eythian there _must_ be a library somewhere that you can use or port that will do the stuff for you, including dealing with corner cases. 14:55
tadzik I think so, but is it worth the effort? 14:56
when people pull out a map and rotate it so that they face the right direction, they're doing pathfinding on a flat earth too, pretty much 14:57
viki m: my \term:<∏> = ^∞ .grep: *.is-prime; say ([*] ∏[2*2, 2*2, 11, 11*3]).base: ∏[3*3]
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«PERL␤»
viki Perl constructed with nothing but prime numbers \o/
Yes, yes I do have too much time on my hands :) 14:58
DrForr Gaussian field FTW?
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tadzik :D 15:00
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tadzik now that I think of it, on a naive flat earth model it'd still show you the "long way around" for anything past 15:06
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tadzik * past 90/-90 longitude 15:07
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viki Divide it into three equal parts and calculate three calculations and pick the shortest one? 15:17
tadzik I figure: if the delta of longitudes is over 180 I can sort of "flip them around"
DrForr masak: WRT Brouwer Fixed-Point you have my attention as well.
tadzik subtract 180 from the bigger, add 180 to the smaller 15:18
and pretend that I'm looking at the other half of the earth now
DrForr Maybe looking at them in radians? 15:19
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DrForr Damn, an interesting math discussion *had* to start when I have to get going... 15:19
timotimo have a good one, DrForr
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tadzik I don't think we're at the angles part yet 15:21
it's like, if you take a flat map of the earth, the way to get from australia to brazil will always be "to the left" 15:22
because the world ends if you walk "to the right"
DrForr If you're doing distances as well you'll need spherical geometry; might make an interesting test of the hyperbolic trig methods.
tadzik I guess you have to glue the map back together and tear it somewhere else, pretty much
DrForr Flip one of the edges over and create a Klein map. 15:23
grondilu Fun fact: if you look at it with enough speed, the Earth is indeed flat.
tadzik I have my math for distances and it's doing the right thing(for now, but now that you mention it I'm scared)
15:23 raiph left
DrForr grondilu: Lorentz contraction? 15:24
grondilu DrForr: yes
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viki m: say "34\x[308]5".Int 15:44
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«3␤»
viki m: say +"34\x[308]5" 15:45
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: trailing characters after number in '033⏏054̈5' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
viki wc
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dalek c: d9f1d14 | timotimo++ | doc/Type/Int.pod6:
make possibility of using variables more obvious
 16:04
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Int
Cole_ns m: class C { has str $.s }; my %h; my $c = C.new; %h{$c.s} = $c; say 'done' 16:06
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)» 16:07
viki heh
moritz Cole_ns: wow, that's a nice short one!
16:07 dataf3l left
Cole_ns Uh, yay? 16:07
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Cole_ns :D 16:07
neuron Yay, I made perl6 working on Solaris :) 16:08
Actually not that much work necessary, only some configuration issues
stmuk_ neuron++ 16:09
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dalek c: 6ffc43a | moritz++ | doc/Language/objects.pod6:
Mention that TWEAK is a new feature
 16:10
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/objects
viki Cole_ns: I'll raise you:
Cole_ns neuron++; # solarising? solarisising? solarisizing?
viki m: my %h{class { has str $.s }.new.s} = 1
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤QAST::Block with cuid 2 has not appeared␤»
viki :)
m: my %h; %h{class { has str $.s }.new.s} = 1 16:11
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
viki Golfed segv
Cole_ns: would you rakudobug it? Just email to [email@hidden.address] 16:12
Cole_ns I'll do that.
viki Cole_ns++ thanks
timotimo m: my str $a; my %h; %h{$a} = 1
camelia ( no output )
timotimo kind of interesting
we'd expect that to give the same semantics as if the string had been "", right?
neuron Cole_ns: I wanted to give some short presentation about perl 6 for colleagues, but they insisted on having a native library available :) 16:13
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viki Possibly. The segv goes away if you give the attribute a default 16:13
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viki OTOH, other natives require a default 16:13
m: my int $x
camelia ( no output )
viki oh wait. I'm confusing things
neuron p6: say "$OSNAME" 16:14
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$OSNAME' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "7⏏5$OSNAME"␤»
timotimo yeah, it's getting a low-level null as the value for the key
neuron Hmmm, shouldn't that be set according to docs.perl6.org/language/5to6-perlvar?
viki m: say $*DISTRO
camelia rakudo-moar c541b3: OUTPUT«opensuse (13.2.Harlequin)␤»
16:14 cibs joined
timotimo no, the text below $^O is the explanation 16:15
viki neuron: no, $OSNAME is listed there as Perl 5 thing, and the paragraph under it tells you what the Perl 6's variants are
timotimo the presentation of that stuff is ... weird
viki Yeah
neuron viki, timotimo : ah, I didn't catch that 16:16
timotimo yeah, can't blame you 16:17
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neuron Well, technically you can ... :) 16:18
timotimo okay. i blame you for that!
viki neuron: all those vars are listed here: docs.perl6.org/language/variables#..._variables 16:19
And the next section: docs.perl6.org/language/variables#..._variables
neuron viki, thanks, that's what I was looking for
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neuron ./perl6 ./t/01-sanity/53-transpose.t 16:29
Segmentation Fault (core dumped) 16:30
meh :)
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grondilu neuron: can't reproduce it on my install 16:42
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grondilu $ perl6 --version 16:42
This is Rakudo version 2016.10-254-gd989d96 built on MoarVM version 2016.10-43-gb4cd2a6
implementing Perl 6.c. 16:43
neuron grondilu: Do you use solaris? 16:44
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neuron Also I'm on development version of solaris, so I can't really blame noone but me 16:45
timotimo perl6 -e 'my %h; %h{class { has str $.s }.new.s} = 1' 16:57
MVMHash representation requires MVMString keys
better than a crash
though i'll put "definite" or "defined" in there.
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timotimo i don't feel like writing a test because it segfaults and i don't want to do the bump dance 16:59
Cole_ns timotimo: What's the bump dance? 17:05
viki Cole_ns: bumping MoarVM version used by nqp and then bumping NQP version used by Rakudo
timotimo yep, one commit to nqp, and another commit to rakudo 17:06
viki
.oO( sounds like a job for a simple alias.... )
17:07
timotimo no, i don't have trouble making the stuff 17:08
i don't want to push the commits
viki ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 17:09
Makes bumps more atomic... "Bump version to bring a bunch of MoarVM fixes" is kinda meh 17:10
MasterDuke Zoffix! to the botmakingmobile! we need a bump dancing bot!
neuron what is the best way to create patches against rakudo, nqp and moarvm? 17:11
github pull requests?
viki neuron: yes
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neuron perfect, thanks viki 17:11
see you later guys
viki neuron: for Rakudo, ensure the PR passes the spectest. You can run it as TEST_JOBS=4 make spectest; You can also run a longer, but more comprehensive test: TEST_JOBS=4 make stresstest 17:12
Increate TEST_JOBS value to about $number-of-your-processor-cores*1.2
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neuron viki: Is it described somewhere? 17:13
viki m: 30/24
camelia rakudo-moar d540fc: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "/" in expression "30/24" in sink context (line 1)␤»
viki m: say 30/24
camelia rakudo-moar d540fc: OUTPUT«1.25␤»
viki neuron: umm... nothing that sticks in my mind. I keep planning to write a proper blog post for all this stuff. You can get it piece-meal if you read the "Perl 6 Core Hacking" posts on perl6.party
But they go over specific bugs, so the procedure isn't generic. 17:14
neuron: I see we have CONTRIBUTING.md, maybe it's in there: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...IBUTING.md
neuron viki: is there a way to ask someone to run the tests for me? I have fixes to make perl6 compile on solaris, but the tests are failig so far there (core files mostly)
Or maybe I should get myself virtual linux machine and run the tests there with my fixes 17:15
viki neuron: you can just mention on the pull request that someone needs to run the spectest. 17:16
neuron That would be great 17:17
Many thanks
bye
17:17 neuron left
viki God dammit... I've just learned all of Canada, EXCEPT for my province and the neighbouring one have a day off today. 17:28
You just had to be different, Ontario, eh?!
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viki "Americans eat about 1.25 billion chicken wings annually during Super Bowl Sunday." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holid...celebrated 17:31
That's like 675 million chickens!
In one day.
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timotimo holy shick 17:59
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viki NeuralAnomaly: blockers 18:25
NeuralAnomaly viki, There is 1 release blocker. See perl6.fail/release/blockers
viki, perl6.fail/130031 : gmake install step fails under Windows for 2016.10 with the Strawberry Perl buildchain
viki .ask stmuk_ would you be able to retest RT#130031 with HEAD rakudo? I believe that bug has been fixed
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=130031
yoleaux viki: I'll pass your message to stmuk_.
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RabidGravy Harr! 18:39
Finally Friday evening
viki Is it?
Seems to be still afternoon :P
mst that's because you're in an inferior timezone 18:41
RabidGravy we live in the Mother Of All Timezones
viki :) 18:42
RabidGravy I could almost walk to the meridian if I could be arsed
there may be something weird going on with the order of the modules on modules.perl6.org/
viki yeah 18:43
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viki prolly something due to this: github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org...50cab7eb65 18:46
viki leaves to do a designer emergency :'(
Perfect end to a Friday work day :(
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RabidGravy I actually refused to merge a change this afternoon 18:47
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seatek Interesting - doing this $obj.isa('Class::Name') ?? appears to be execute just as fast as $obj.^name ~~ /Class\:\:Name/ ?? yet the second gives you much more flexibility 20:13
geekosaur seatek, until you are working with a subclass of Class::Name 20:14
seatek using a giant cludge mallet timer ;)
geekosaur: I was! 20:15
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viki Well, then your regex match is bupkis 20:15
seatek Just 1 subclass down though
viki You're conflating a name with subclassing
seatek i'm being practical ;) 20:16
viki m: class Foo::Bar {}; class Some::Other is Foo::Bar {}; dd [ Some::Other.isa('Foo::Bar'), Some::Other.^name ~~ /'Foo::Bar'/ ]
camelia rakudo-moar 4ae3f2: OUTPUT«[Bool::True, Any]␤»
viki If by practical you're introducing hard to find bugs, sure ;) 20:17
*you mean...
Job security, amiright? :)
geekosaur seatek, IO::Socket is a subclass of IO::Handle
(in p5, and I think p6) 20:18
think about this
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seatek I understand the difference between them completely 20:18
I'm talking about heavily loaded requests happening, and the speed at which they can happen
viki Though to be fair, we have some iffy things in core on this topic :P 20:19
seatek It was surpsing to me because I always hear about how horrificly slow using regexes make things 20:20
yet there was no difference using the name with regex, and calling .isa
(in timing the application which is a big of a big club ;))
viki seatek: there's .contains() FWIW 20:21
FROGGS regexes arnt that slow... interpolation in regexes is
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seatek yeah, this came up because i'm having to deal with the fatal nightmare of circular module loading now 20:22
mspo codegolf.stackexchange.com/question...1863#31863
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...l?id=31863
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timotimo seatek: btw, if you have $obj.^name ~~ /Class\:\:Name/, it might be about 1000x faster to just .contains("Class::Name") 20:48
seatek timotimo: I noticed that :) 20:49
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seatek I tried putting in "artificial" subclassing (that gave a common ancestor), so that i could use .isa .. but it was not faster. 20:52
completely happy using the regex. it lacks purity... but it has a certain.. rustic charm ;) 20:54
and i'm secretly rebelling against the fatality of circular module use's ;) 20:55
dalek c: 857fab3 | coke++ | doc/Type/Int.pod6:
use actual spelling to pass spell test
 21:20
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Int
timotimo whoops 21:23
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timotimo thanks you 21:23
there's probably a make target in the repo that'll spellcheck for me?
river what's perl 6 written in?
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timotimo perl6 is written in a bunch of NQP (not quite perl6) and a bunch of perl 6 21:24
we have our own custom VM to run the language on called MoarVM, which is written almost completely in C89
river that's interesting
timotimo and stuff for our support of the JVM is written in java, unsurprisingly
river oh well, can't have everything 21:25
timotimo the compiler of nqp and its runtime is also written completely in nqp
river that does all seem rather complicated
timotimo it's not terribly bad. it allows us to have a few cool things 21:26
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timotimo perl6.party/post/Perl-6-is-written-in...-Perl-6 - i think this post shows a bit of that 21:27
i seem to recall another article about the coolness of that fact, but i don't remember who wrote it or what it was called 21:29
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uncle_ hello, does anyone know if there's a rakudo 2016.10 installer for Windows? rakudo.org/downloads/star/ does not have it... 21:38
seatek uncle_: I looked for one very briefly the other day and couldn't find one. Also tried compiling it with Cygwin briefly which failed. 21:41
I didn't need the video game distraction anyway. ;) 21:43
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timotimo i think we have trouble on cygwin so can't support it 21:43
seatek Does it take a microsoft compiler of some sort? I have no idea really about the Windows world, except what I've had to learen 21:44
(and video games) 21:45
OSX is probably much easier since its unixy 21:46
uncle_ installers for older versions were provided on Windows before, so I wonder why 2016.10 doesn't have one
timotimo with MSVC and strawberry perl you can do it
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seatek i heard something about windows 10 being able to run a Ubuntu command line now... ;) 21:48
timotimo yup
i think people have been able to compile rakudo with that
tadzik yep, it's quite nice
timotimo i don't remember if it requires any patches or tweaks
seatek i'm gonna have to play with that eventually 21:49
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stmuk_ uncle_: because that version didn't "make install" correctly 21:52
yoleaux 18:25Z <viki> stmuk_: would you be able to retest RT#130031 with HEAD rakudo? I believe that bug has been fixed
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=130031
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stmuk_ .tell viki thanks! I think you are right (and that 2016.10 problem fixed by a moar bump) 21:53
yoleaux stmuk_: I'll pass your message to viki.
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stmuk_ I plan to try and build a working windows MSI either this or next weekend 21:54
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uncle_ stmuk_: that would be nice :) 21:56
Cole_ns stmuk_++
timotimo yay! 21:58
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grondilu "how many moves can players think ahead?" omg he did ask this question 22:10
the most cliché chess question ever
oh sorry wrong chan 22:12
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masak grondilu: I'm guessing, something like 2 moves? :P 22:12
grondilu it's a dumb question. GrandMasters can play a whole game in their head, but they can inspect all branches. How deep they inspect the move tree depends on the position. 22:14
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grondilu s/but they can/they can not/ 22:15
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masak yes, of course 22:16
seatek I play chess by using The Force, not thinking ahead.
geekosaur yeh. one of the things grand masters have over computers is they can tell which branches to prune immediately; the computers have to compute all of them
masak perhaps Monte Carlo Tree Search might give some insight here
grondilu Kasparov used to answer sarcastically: "I don't know, just one?"
seatek hehe 22:17
geekosaur the AI folks keep playing with various forms of chunking (pattern matching on the high level) to try to reproduce what the players do
masak in the sense that trying out all of the branches in the game tree isn't the point; only the ones that are interesting/relevant
geekosaur well, the problem is nobody knows (or knows *consciously* which ones are relevant
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seatek .keys doesn't seem to care what order keys were created. nor does it sort its return. yet it remains consistent... 23:12
can i count on that forever and ever i wonder?
jnthn I wouldn't. 23:13
seatek hehe
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seatek that means more work then :( 23:13
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seatek or pie 23:14
i think pie. yes.
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masak seatek: congratulations, you've discovered the unorderedness of hash keys. 23:23
seatek: here, have a level-up :)
timotimo we had a very short snippet that gave you an ordered hash 23:25
i seem to recall masak wrote it 23:26
seatek masak: hehe thanks :) but... they seem ordered in some way... that is, they are consistent across tests... but i can't figure out why they've taken the order they have
geekosaur well. technically "ordered" in the sense that the hash value determines the order. but the hash function may change, and there are hash impls in other languages that deliberately permute the hash function to prevent attacks based on ordering
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seatek ah ok 23:27
jnthn We'll do that permuting in the future too
The only reason we didn't so far is "nobody had time"
seatek that explains the seeming "randomness" when they go in, but not when they come out
geekosaur basically you should not rely on the hash function always behaving in a particular way
masak seatek: hashes sacrifice consistent ordering in favor of fast lookup
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timotimo halite.io/index.php - potentially interesting? 23:59
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seatek yeah the hash order doesn't matter for me at all really, except that unit tests doing text generation... well, i gotta test those strings :) 23:59

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