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This channel is intended for people just starting with the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). Logs are available at irclogs.raku.org/raku-beginner/live.html Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022. |
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| thowe | man, I love the IO stuff... really makes things easy and takes away the potential for the kinds of errors I've made elsewhere. | 02:26 | |
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| antononcube | @thowe Do you have access OpenAI / ChatGPT or PaLM ? | 02:42 | |
| thowe | no | ||
| antononcube | Ah, pity. If you did, I was going to setup a motivational Raku coach for you, that uses predominantly I/O examples. | 02:44 | |
| thowe | I appreciate the sentiment. I have a lot of books, and I enjoy finding things out. I also enjoy talking to people about this stuff when I can. | 02:46 | |
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| antononcube | @thowe Hmm.. I can make a "digital LLM twin" of you, and then make that LLM-twin talk the LLM-Raku-coach. | 02:48 | |
| thowe | I'm not sure what that means, but it doesn't sounds like something I want. | 02:50 | |
| antononcube | @thowe Alternatively, I can just generate a "12 steps guide of quitting Perl and using Raku instead", similar to this guide: github.com/antononcube/RakuForPred...-PaLM-2.md | ||
| @thowe I understand -- it was a joke. | 02:51 | ||
| thowe | I like Perl. I like Mojolicious and DBIx::Class and lots of other things... I also like Raku because it is fun ti learn new things, and I think I may one day like it as much as I like Perl. But the Perl world is full of people like me, who like it for sysadmin stuff and throwing data around in small scripts. | 02:55 | |
| Raku seems to have a community full of academics and computer scientists... | 02:56 | ||
| well, Perl seemed that way at one time. Maybe not anymore. I guess the entire FOSS world is different... | 02:57 | ||
| antononcube | @thowe No, I do not think that. 🙂 But you right in a sense -- the average age of a Raku user is 56. | 02:58 | |
| thowe | ignore me, someone left wine here and I am drinking it | ||
| wow. I am actually younger then the average. That seems rare these days. :) | 02:59 | ||
| is there a Raku Data::Dumper thing? | 03:05 | ||
| also, when there are so many JSON modules how does one know which one to use? | 03:07 | ||
| antononcube | I think you are asking about this: raku.land/github:nkh/Data::Dump::Tree | 03:08 | |
| thowe | neat, thanks | 03:09 | |
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| antononcube | Sure, good luck! 🙂 There are other similar and/or related modules in raku.land . | 03:13 | |
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| Nahita | >>> 4 .. * 4..Inf >>> 4 ... * (...) >>> * .. 4 -Inf..4 >>> * ... 4 No such method 'succ' for invocant of type 'Whatever'. Did you mean 'sum'? hi should this be expected? | 11:15 | |
| lakmatiol | IMO yes, ... constructs a sequence, and a sequence must have a starting point | 11:16 | |
| the error could be better | 11:17 | ||
| Nahita | are you the same lakmatiol in the Python server? | 11:18 | |
| >>> -Inf ... 4 (-Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf | 11:19 | ||
| -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf -Inf ...) | |||
| why does a sequence have a concrete starting point | |||
| lakmatiol | yes | ||
| snonux | that's the end of the universe! | ||
| lakmatiol | that is how raku chose to define a sequence. A potentially infinite, order-aware, iterable, collection. And for something to be iterable, it must start somewhere | 11:21 | |
| ah, this is a fun one. -Inf.succ is -Inf (which does mostly make sense), so this is a sequence of -Inf.succ up to 4, in other words, an infinite sequence of -Inf. | 11:22 | ||
| Nahita | i expect the same thing for * ... 4 | ||
| m: * ... 4 | 11:24 | ||
| Raku eval | Exit code: 1 Potential difficulties: Useless use of ... in sink context at /home/glot/main.raku:1 ------> * ...⏏ 4 No such method 'succ' for invocant of type 'Whatever'. Did you mean 'sum'? in block <unit> at main.raku line 1 | ||
| Nahita | i have 2021.04 so in case changed | ||
| lakmatiol | well, * is not -Inf | ||
| Nahita | really? | 11:25 | |
| actually i rather you not interact with me, if possible | |||
| teatwo | tf | 11:26 | |
| Nahita | what does "tf" mean | 11:30 | |
| tensorflow? | |||
| nemokosch | tf indeed | 11:33 | |
| this may or may not have been a social anomaly we were lucky to witness here | 11:38 | ||
| anyway, WhateverStar is overloaded in all ad-hoc ways to mimic one sensible behavior in a situation | 11:39 | ||
| what it does is never "obvious" or how to put it | 11:40 | ||
| it's always custom behavior | |||
| m: say -Inf .. 'Z' | 11:41 | ||
| Raku eval | Exit code: 1 Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏Z' (indicated by ⏏) in block <unit> at main.raku line 1 | ||
| nemokosch | makes sense that it made no sense, right? | 11:42 | |
| m: say * .. 'Z' | |||
| Raku eval | -Inf.."Z" | ||
| nemokosch | now I exploited that * is apparently simply special-cased as a range starting point | ||
| created an issue for it | 11:57 | ||
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| Nahita | nemothing: you are a social anomaly, you are lucky to face ridicilously tolerant moderation, you get fed with aggression and snarkness and disrespectfulness, so, PLEASE, please ignore me and don't reply to my questions | 12:54 | |
| nemokosch | I don't know why you think you know me but please mind your own business, it seems that there would be some. | 12:56 | |
| vendethiel | Huh | 13:36 | |
| librasteve | thowe: fwiw raku has the dd command perl equivalent built in ... | 13:38 | |
| m: my Int @a = [^10]; dd @a; | 13:39 | ||
| Raku eval | Array[Int @a = Array[Int].new(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) | ||
| librasteve | ddt is even nicer esp for hash of array type things ... but you have to zef install Data::Dump::Tree | 13:40 | |
| nahita: i agree that the moderation here is overly lax - sadly when irc mods request action from the discord mods they are not given due weight | 13:47 | ||
| previously I have found this chat quite toxic and I would like to see the situation improve ... perhaps we need to place the same individuals as mods for both the irc and discord ends of the bridge (I do not know how the discord mods are "elected") | 13:49 | ||
| in the meantime, I would ask everyone to follow Camelia's advice and be nice to one another | 13:51 | ||
| please | |||
| nemokosch | ironically, more strict moderation would have definitely intervened at that message | 13:59 | |
| anyway, this is supposedly a beginner-friendly channel. I don't know why "don't talk to me, even if your response could be useful both to me AND others" belongs here, or why any sort of personal drama belongs here in the first place | 14:02 | ||
| librasteve | 👉 when you point a finger, remember that there are four fingers pointing back at you | 14:07 | |
| thowe | librasteve: I didn't understand your comment about dd at first as I was thinking about the dd tool on *nix. Then I realized you meant data dump. didn't know that was there. | 14:24 | |
| nemokosch | quite an ironic proverb isn't it | ||
| thowe | librasteve: I don't see dd in the Raku docs. | 14:25 | |
| oh, nm, I found it... dd is a common string ;) | 14:27 | ||
| nemokosch | sometimes the google search option (at the bottom) is more helpful | ||
| antononcube | @nemokosch You realize that mentioning the search thing at the bottom thing is toxic, right? | 15:11 | |
| nemokosch | this would require an advisor system | 16:07 | |
| antononcube | Yeah, I have to resume my work on the "CoC compliance classifier" or, at least, publish its current design and observations of using it. | 16:16 | |
| lucs | snonux: "that's the end of the universe!" You might like this :-) : media.discordapp.net/attachments/1...grafik.png | 17:29 | |
| librasteve | purely for fun, take any response you get from chat gpt and then add can you paraphrase this in rakulang stylee | 19:52 | |
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| scullucs | Le monsieur y'est pas content 😠 gist.github.com/lucs/5a256eda6eff6...4d09a7d223 | 21:21 | |
| nemokosch | have you checked the Rakudo issues and if so, did you report it? | 21:24 | |
| scullucs | I will do that, right. | 21:25 | |
| librasteve | seems like a genuine issue to me (ie IO tests checking the target and not the origin) | 21:26 | |
| nemokosch | can very well be a VM (as in runtime) issue | 21:27 | |
| librasteve | should @scullucs file in github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues or in github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/issues do you think? | 21:31 | |
| scullucs | @librasteve Quite possibly related problem: gist.github.com/lucs/a6e2b728fb5a9...52a2654201 | 21:32 | |
| nemokosch | I think Rakudo should be fine. It has a higher probability that it catches someone's attention for starters | 21:33 | |
| scullucs | I'll report both in the same issue, in Rakudo, then. | 21:34 | |
| librasteve | cool | 21:35 | |
| scullucs | sigh .IO.resolve doesn't remove the ".." levels. | 22:53 | |
| nemokosch | it does for me | 22:54 | |
| are you sure there isn't something funny with your file system? | |||
| scullucs | Yeah, sorry, it does. | 22:55 | |
| I'm tripping up with resolve and symlinks. | 22:56 | ||
| My actual problem: if I want to "resolve" the "..", .IO.resolve indeed does it, but what was a symlink path is now resolved to its target file. | 22:57 | ||
| I want to resolve the "..", but don't replace it by the target file. | 22:58 | ||
| So there it is. | |||
| No problem I said, I'll compare the inodes. | |||
| And that is screwed up too 😦 | |||
| So I'll have to "resolve" the ".." with some string manipulation, LTA. | 22:59 | ||
| github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/5345 | 23:00 | ||
| gfldex | m: '/a/../a/b//c/d/./5/x.pl'..split('/').rotor(2 => -1, :partial).map( -> [$cur, $next = ''] { put [$cur, $next]; ($next eq '..' or $cur eq '.'|'..'|'') ?? Empty !! $cur }).join('/').say; | 23:40 | |
| camelia | ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp> Calling split(Str) will never work with signature of the proto ($, $, |) at <tmp>:1 ------> '/a/../a/b//c/d/./5/x.pl'..⏏split('/').rotor(2 => -1, :partial).map( |
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| gfldex | m: '/a/../a/b//c/d/./5/x.pl'.split('/').rotor(2 => -1, :partial).map( -> [$cur, $next = ''] { put [$cur, $next]; ($next eq '..' or $cur eq '.'|'..'|'') ?? Empty !! $cur }).join('/').say; | ||
| camelia | a a .. .. a a b b c c d d . . 5 5 x.pl x.pl a/b/c/d/5/x.pl |
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| gfldex | m: '/a/../a/b//c/d/./5/x.pl'.split('/').rotor(2 => -1, :partial).map( -> [$cur, $next = ''] { ($next eq '..' or $cur eq '.'|'..'|'') ?? Empty !! $cur }).join('/').say; | ||
| camelia | a/b/c/d/5/x.pl | ||
| gfldex | @scullucs this ^^^ is my golfed version of stringwise resolve. | 23:41 | |
| nemokosch | the question is also the scope of the task. this wouldn't work with a bare '..', for example | 23:45 | |
| Bigger problem: it can't go upwards twice in a row | 23:52 | ||
| m: '/foo/bar/../..'.split('/').rotor(2 => -1, :partial).map( -> [$cur, $next = ''] { ($next eq '..' or $cur eq '.'|'..'|'') ?? Empty !! $cur }).join('/').say; | |||
| Raku eval | foo | ||
