Documentation Channel for #raku | This channel is logged | Roadmap: github.com/raku/doc/wiki
Set by [Coke] on 23 May 2022.
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Nemokosch I'm going to take my rant here ironically, exactly because of the implications: the ultimate issue with getting ANYTHING Raku-related done is that no one on planet Earth feels responsible for making decisions or even just taking a stance on an issue. 12:58
No matter all the trickery I'm doing within Raku spaces, be it IRC, Discord, GH discussions, issues under several repositories, linking them together, responding, trying to get to fixes when possible 13:00
Even to get a banal PR merged is a matter of sheer luck 13:01
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Nemokosch I don't know what it was like when all issues were essentially dumped onto jnthn but it absolutely couldn't be worse than the current situation 13:06
Also, let's release this "we are volunteers and therefore everyone contributes as much as they can/want to" excuse for good 13:09
Not all volunteer-driven projects are equally badly managed and Raku itself has had ups and downs from management point of view 13:10
sena_kun Nemokosch, do you mind a private conversation? 13:18
Nemokosch no 13:19
lizmat assume a private conversation is taking place 14:04
Nemokosch: maybe you should apply for a commit bit to Rakudo ? 14:05
Nemokosch lizmat: Maybe I should apply for something, you are right. I'm trying to help with Rakudo as well, as much as I can comprehend after more or less 2 months of looking closer - but I honestly don't think that requires the most help at the moment 14:34
lizmat it would solve the issue of PR's not getting merged 14:35
Nemokosch That was the most extreme example, the problems go way deeper than that 14:39
Somebody pointed it out more than 2 years ago that "problem solving" was not working. Around that time, there were people to argue with that. 14:43
Today, nobody would argue with that. Not because there couldn't be a discussion about it but because it has a much bigger proof: nobody cares about solving any sort of problems. 14:46
lizmat not arguing with that 14:47
Nemokosch I can try to sort out Rakudo content but with my qualifications, that seems more like a sure way to burnout than achieving anything visible. Also, from what I see with some of the issues I remember: a Rakudo PR can be a place where a design decision gets stuck. And then we are back to "problem solving" 14:49
"forgiveness > permission" is wise but how far can one go? Say, somebody can decide that lazy lists don't ACCEPT any single item. What about deprecation and undeprecation of things? That's also a prevalent topic. Or infrastructure: I'm still pondering who *knows* the current state at all, let alone the possible answers themselves 14:55
I don't know if the RSC was created with this sort of topics in mind or how feasibly operable it is wrt these topics 14:57
I was also thinking that we might get closer to give squashathons a (re)try; I have a superficial plan that I can still refine better. Secretly I'm hoping that it could be an "excuse" for having public(-ish) meetings with multiple people regularly. 14:59
And you know, when I have these plans... that's when it really hits me that so many people aren't even willing to dedicate 5 minutes of consistent attention to issues that could really be resolved forever 15:00
"vote" about a language decision, pass ownership of a repo, minor things like this 15:01
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[Coke] you'll get better traction with the community on community issues if you don't restricvt your conversation to the documentation channel. 23:01

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