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cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! Net::IP (1.1.0) by 03TBROWDER 01:30
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jmerelo Instead of renaming the old advent calendar and losing links, I've created a new site rakuadventcalendar.wordpress.com/ 05:42
Anyone wants to help with managing users, themes, anything at all, just DM or send me the email address used in WordPress.com
Geth doc: 51a68536bf | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Proc.pod6
Reflows while revising #2632
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Geth ¦ problem-solving: hankache assigned to AlexDaniel Issue Perl 6 to Raku timeframe github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/118 07:04
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bbkr Hi. How and when should ecosystem modules reflect name change? Will module authors get any tutorial describing files extensions, META6.json name, language name in travis-CI, etc? 07:56
Also will perl6/ecosystem repo be simply renamed to raku/ecosystem or will there be separate repository for adapted modules only? 08:00
Doc_Holliwood in an ideal world someone would write a script that automatically does the lot of renaming work and creates pull requests 08:04
tejr Maybe that someone... 08:06
is you
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Doc_Holliwood i already have two yaks two shave 08:32
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jnthn For those asking what module authors should do, the draft advice is here: github.com/perl6/problem-solving/b...developers 09:22
tyil jnthn: thanks :> 09:38
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kawaii www.irccloud.com/pastebin/fRs8nF4z/ 12:02
I keep getting a segfault when trying to compile Rakudo on my Raspberry Pi :thinki 12:03
nine kawaii: maybe out of memory?
kawaii: does dmesg give a hint?
kawaii nine: sadly not, nothing in dmesg since boot 12:04
memory looks fine too
100 mb used out of 1 gb
nine rakudo compile uses well over 1 GB of memory 12:07
kawaii ah that might be the issue then 12:09
let me get a reading while it compiles
AlexDaniel kawaii: any reason you can't use an existing package?
kawaii `rakudo/stable 2018.12-5 armhf` is the latest in my repos 12:10
I suppose that will work
AlexDaniel yup
♥ debian :)
kawaii I've never used the packages before :D
AlexDaniel kawaii: zef is also packaged, btw
timotimo say, why do we get a segfault for oom anyway, rather than a MVM_malloc calling MVM_panic somewhere? 12:11
kawaii ah it's packaged as `perl6-zef`
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kawaii www.irccloud.com/pastebin/PFQ4opcN/ 12:55
🤔
tyil kawaii: looks like you need some additional libs 12:56
libffi, libtommath, libatomicops and libuv 12:57
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kawaii tyil: I have all of those :( 13:00
tyil depending on the distro you may need development packages of them
kawaii ah likely
Altreus libtoffee 13:01
libtomato? These seem food-oriented
maybe I'm hungry
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cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! Gnome::Gtk3::Glade (0.8.8) by 03MARTIMM 13:41
New module released to CPAN! Gnome::N (0.13.8) by 03MARTIMM
New module released to CPAN! Gnome::Gtk3 (0.18.5) by 03MARTIMM
New module released to CPAN! Gnome::GObject (0.14.7) by 03MARTIMM
New module released to CPAN! Gnome::Glib (0.14.4) by 03MARTIMM
New module released to CPAN! Gnome::Gdk3 (0.14.11) by 03MARTIMM
ZzZombo STOP!
TY 13:42
VM
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tyil ZzZombo: ? 13:45
if you don't want to see updated modules on the ecosystem, you can filter/ignore *@perl6/bot/cpan-p6 13:46
ZzZombo Well, not that. The bot has flooded my screen with notifications, and there was no visible end to the stream of messages. 13:47
pmurias is such as style of rakudo.js tutorial: gist.github.com/pmurias/7f5b9e2fff...fad8ec5608 okish?
tyil ZzZombo: what would you propose when someone pushes a lot of modules at once? 13:49
if I add a (longer) delay, it'll just take longer, and if I start dropping messages, well, you lose updates :p
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tyil pmurias: that would work for me (assuming this is just a start, otherwise I'd find it a bit short) 13:59
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pmurias tyil: thanks 14:36
tyil: I think I'll add stuff how to add a -I when parceling and info on how to use rakudo.js under node.js
nine timotimo: reporting errors without allocating memory can be hard 14:37
pmurias tyil: but I don't mean it as a general introduction to using Perl 6
tyil ah
pmurias well Raku
tyil it's just a "look at this" kind of thing, more than a tutorial on "this is how you can make something worthwhile"
nine kawaii: fun fact: since MoarVM byte code is architecture independent, you can just copy CORE.*.setting.moarvm from your desktop to the pi. No need to compile on a seriously underpowered machine. 14:38
warriors so perl6 --version on windows is giving me This is Rakudo Star version 2019.03.1 built on MoarVM version 2019.03 implementing Perl 6.d., is this the latest release?
nine And compiling the CORE setting is the only part that really needs all that much memory
warriors no release since march seems odd
timotimo yes, we were having A Time with releases this year 14:39
tyil warriors: you're looking at rakudo star, not rakudo
rakudo star releases at different schedules than rakudo (without the star)
timotimo ah, yes, rakudo star releases; the rakudo compiler releases have not been as irregular
tyil rakudo has a monthly release
warriors i am very sure i installed the latest binary (msi) from perl6.org
tyil warriors: that's rakudo star, yes 14:40
warriors hmm
tyil rakudo star is a distribution containing rakudo, moarvm, nqp, and a number of common modules
it's intended to be more useful for end-users, so they don't ahve to gather all parts themselves
warriors (Y)
👍 14:41
tyil if you want the montly releases, you'll have to gather all those parts yourself, and compile them yourself as well
(would not suggest as a "regular" user) 14:42
I'm actually not sure how hard it'd be on Windows, to be honest
AlexDaniel warriors: rakudo 2019.03.1 is pretty good 14:47
warriors: surely the upcoming release this month will be even better, I think a star release will follow shortly (maybe next month?)
warriors thanks , yes i think for me on windows, it should be good enough
pmurias tyil: intended it more to be a "look how you run you Raku code in rakudo.js" thing
AlexDaniel but generally every other release from now on is just slightly more stable and slightly faster, in most use cases not a huge difference 14:48
mspo I haven't tried in a while- is the entrypoint still a shell script?
AlexDaniel the big difference will come once 6.e is released, which is going to happen in 2020 it seems 14:49
mspo: not anymore
mspo AlexDaniel: that's good news
AlexDaniel mspo: but that changed recently, yes, after 2019.03
tyil oh, that's pretty neat 14:50
mspo AlexDaniel: is there a way to make a "packed app" like a jar? :)
AlexDaniel mspo: why is it good news, btw? I know some benefits but wondering why it matters for you :)
tyil I hadn't heard of that change yet, I'm also on R*'s latest :p
mspo AlexDaniel: bsd didn't like it
AlexDaniel ahh
mspo the shell script
AlexDaniel .seen patrickb
tellable6 AlexDaniel, I saw patrickb 2019-10-15T22:59:32Z in #raku-dev: <patrickb> I'm heading off to bed. 'night everyone!
AlexDaniel mspo: I remember people talking about packed binaries during perlcon, there was definitely some progress but I don't know the details 14:51
mspo: patrickb should know more, I think
vrurg: or maybe you? :)
mspo AlexDaniel: I tried getting my head around the cached compile file names and stuff once 14:52
once was enough :)
tyil still need to look into automated r* builds with gitlab-ci
so many projects ;~;
vrurg AlexDaniel: I'm only about makefile infrastructure. Builds are on Patrick. 14:53
warriors what will happen in 6.e is this published somewhere, is there a roadmap?
AlexDaniel m: use v6.e.PREVIEW;
camelia ( no output )
AlexDaniel warriors: you can do that to get the latest experimental changes today
maybe not in 2019.03 though…
warriors: but there are not a lot of changes right now, and you shouldn't depend on them anyway 14:54
warriors m: use v6.e.PREVIEW;
camelia ( no output )
AlexDaniel one of the biggest changes I think is what Grammar.parse returns if it failed to parse
vrurg AlexDaniel: I would add the changes in roles support when merged. 14:59
AlexDaniel vrurg: btw do we have a changelog for v6.e?
vrurg Not really. There is a template in the announce document. But I need to pick some time and fill it with updates. 15:01
vrurg is afk
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AlexDaniel vrurg: just that alone is a lot of work :( 15:07
vrurg: I hope we can all help somehow
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timotimo[m] hola 15:33
wow, that was a delay
AlexDaniel` timotimo: I don't know what's the current situation 15:40
I think it used to be that everything on matrix.org was slow, not just the bridge 15:41
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AlexDaniel` too many users hugging a single server 15:41
timotimo[m] ah, that makes sense 15:51
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jnthn I think you meant "hogging", but it's a delightful mental image the way you wrote it :) 15:58
discord6 <RaycatWhoDat> Good ol' hug of death 15:59
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timotimo[m] it got slashhugged 15:59
jmerelo re: StackOverflow tag shift. We can simply make raku an alias for Perl6 (not the other way round), but in order to do that we need to have 25% more raku than perl6 16:02
Grinnz wouldn't that mean all of the posts still say "perl6"?
jmerelo That means basically tagging everything that's been tagged with perl6 (and cro, and some other minoritary tags) with raku ASAP, and make people stop using perl6 tag from now on. Wait a bit (or a lot) until we get those 25% 16:03
Grinnz: I'm not sure you really can delete a tag, or move it. You can create synonims, though.
Grinnz yes, but it's my understanding that if perl6 was a synonym for raku, all the posts would then say raku 16:04
jmerelo At the current rate, we'll get to that 25% about Christmas, I'd say.
Grinnz there's three concerns to think about really: what posts are visibly tagged with, what tags people put on posts, and how people can find the tag
jmerelo Grinnz: be that as it may, it's still the same requirement.
Grinnz: with respect to the second concern, from today I'm deleting perl6 from all new posts and tagging them with raku. 16:05
If anyone else's got the privs, it's probably a good idea to do it too.
There are now, however, 177 questions tagged "raku" but 1201 tagged "perl6" 16:06
Grinnz simply updating all existing posts and watching for use of the wrong tag in the future is an option that solves the first two things, for the third i guess you'd have to rely on the tag description 16:07
jmerelo Additional problem is that you need to be a "Stack App" to be able to write to StackExchange. So adding tags is not really so simply. I wonder if scraping could do the job... 16:09
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vrurg AlexDaniel: the best help would be to remember to mark 6.e specific changes in release changelogs, commit messages. 17:07
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AlexDaniel` timotimo: btw you might want to accept the invite to perl6/raku community on matrix :) 17:29
timotimo[m] i don't know where to find that 17:30
nheko is my matrix client 17:31
AlexDaniel` it says “Basic communities support” 17:33
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AlexDaniel` Is this clickable? +perl6:matrix.org 17:35
vrurg AlexDaniel: BTW, have you seen comments under opennet.ru rename announce? 17:38
timotimo[m] it's clickable, but it opens a browser 17:39
AlexDaniel vrurg: yeah
vrurg "Refreshing" experience. ;) 17:40
AlexDaniel vrurg: I better liked the positive spin by Andrew with an oyster and pearls 17:42
or whatever that was 17:43
this one: www.facebook.com/groups/raku.perl6...504912694/ 17:44
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vrurg AlexDaniel: his one too. I could add few more connotations. In my childhood many used to pervert anything one says, so have good experience in this. But what the hell.... 17:48
Geth doc: 4356fbfabc | ab5tract++ | doc/Type/Callable.pod6
Clarify Callable requirement
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sena_kun vrurg, AlexDaniel quality of some Russian-speaking communities is as low as it goes, with literaly everything being mocked / hatred there, so while it is painful to see for sure, no real need to be offended, I guess. 18:00
vrurg sena_kun: I'm not offended by the "community". I rather laugh of them as in circus. 18:01
What Andrew does worries me because he's a recognized person in the perl community. 18:02
sena_kun vrurg, ah, then good for you. I am mostly sad to see the blatant ignorance without any curiosity paired with "I am the smartest mind on this planet" syndrome (not related to raku, in general). 18:04
vrurg sena_kun: so do I. Down with them, we have stuff to do. :) 18:06
sena_kun vrurg, true, better to strive for writing code that can impress, than spend time arguing with people who won't change their minds no matter what you tell them. 18:07
(even though /me did not write a lot code recently) 18:08
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cognominal just reinstalling zef. I can't find what I have to do for rakudo to access libs installed (where?) by zef. 18:43
Do I miss something obvious in the README.pod 18:44
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vrurg cognominal: do you mean `zef list --installed`? Or what? 18:58
AlexDaniel vrurg: it's interesting how people say that they want perl to just die on a website I haven't even heard about, which also has an interface that looks like it needed a redesign for about 10 years 19:00
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AlexDaniel vrurg: habr.com seems generally more civilized, at least based on previous perl 6 mentions there 19:04
vrurg: but I'm not following Russian websites at all, last time I checked habr.com was in… uh… English?
seems to be back to normal now
cognominal vrurg: I juste wanted to know where they are installed 19:05
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vrurg AlexDaniel: I just keep RSS subscribtions from like pre-historical times. They're half-dead and I always forget to unsubsribe. 19:05
cognominal is there a way to print that info from zef itself ? 19:06
vrurg cognominal: You don't need to know this unless you're going to manage the installations somehow. If you need to look into sources then better reach their repos via modules.perl6.org (modules.raku.org soon)
cognominal: the point is that modules are installed in a special format which is neither way human-readable. 19:07
cognominal vrurg, So do I need to go to #raku-dev to get a straight answer to a straight question and not be patronized ? :) 19:11
Xliff cognomial: What are you trying to do with the modules? 19:13
The problem is that module locations are non-trivial to find. At least as, far as I know. 19:14
All modules are stored on disk in a hash.
You can not find them via a nice name like Method::Also.
or Inline::Perl5
cognominal So what is the purpose of PERL6LIB ? or soon RAKULIB ? 19:16
Xliff That's where the hashes can be found. 19:17
The compiler converts the module name to its associated hash and then looks for that hash on disk. 19:18
It will look in the directories specified by that environment variable.
nine cognominal: PERL6LIB does pretty exactly the same as PERL5LIB. But Raku supports different module repository implementations. In addition to the good old "bunch of module files in a directory" structure you know from Perl 5 or Python (CompUnit::Repository::FileSystem), there's also CompUnit::Repository::Installation which is a bit like an indexed data base. 19:19
Xliff Please note that I am just passing on this information to you. This is what I've learned about the module installer. I do not know the whys as to this design.
nine++
nine Xliff: niner.name/talks/A%20look%20behind%...rl%206.pdf 19:20
AKA the "please don't hate me for all those SHAs" talk
Xliff ROFL!
El_Che nine: we try :)
guifa What are the most essential Unicode chars needed for P6? I’ve got ｢ ｣ « » ≤ ≥ ≠ ∩ ⊍ ∪ ⊎ ∖ ⊖ ∈ ∉ ∋ ∌ ⊂ ⊄ ⊆ ⊈ ⊃ ⊅ ⊇ ⊉ Any others? 19:21
cognominal I won't blame you. I just talked of the benefit of indirection from some unique identifier on #raku-dev
vrurg cognominal: Sorry, I didn't mean to patronize. Just replayed own experience with same question. :)
mspo guifa: that silly atomic one? 19:22
guifa oh right!
guifa is still super bitter about Unicode making that a by-default emoji and requiring a tag to unemoji it
mspo ⚛
Grinnz what, you don't want emojis in your source code? ⚛️ 19:23
guifa Grinnz: only if I put them there
die “☠️ You shouldn’t do that” 19:24
AlexDaniel m: say ‘#’.uniprop(‘Emoji’)
camelia True
mspo ☠️ is for try/catch :)
guifa warn “There be 🐉 here”
evalable6 There be 🐉 here
in block <unit> at /tmp/4GzzZtMOoA line 1
vrurg I didn't find a way to get non-emojy version of ⚛. But this one works and I'm ok with it.
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guifa say “⚛”; say “⚛\xfe0e” 19:26
evalable6 ⚛
⚛︎
guifa I wonder if the VS impacts the code 19:27
mspo woah what's that small version
⚛︎
guifa my $a = 1; say $a ⚛︎+ 2;
mspo it's not as wide?
vrurg Oh, I missed the keywords: it's on macOS and it's about keyboard layout.
guifa p6: my $a = 1; say $a ⚛︎+ 2;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my $a = 1; say $a7⏏5 ⚛︎+ 2;
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
statement end
statement modif…
guifa p6: my $a = 1; say $a ⚛+ 2; 19:28
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my $a = 1; say $a7⏏5 ⚛+ 2;
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
statement end
statement modifier…
guifa oh oops
vrurg m: my atomicint $a ⚛=1;
camelia ( no output )
guifa my $a = 1; say $a⚛︎++; 19:29
p6: my $a = 1; say $a⚛︎++;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Bogus postfix
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my $a = 1; say $a7⏏5⚛︎++;
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
statement end
statement mo…
vrurg Ok, after all, it seemingly inserts non-emoji but it always displays it as emoji except for the IRC client.
vrurg goes insane about this...
guifa vrurg: the problem is the way that Unicode handled the stupid emoji non sense
They retroactively added emoji status to some characters 19:30
You can choose emoji display or text display by inserting VS15 or VS16 after the character
AlexDaniel guifa: which we don't support yet, unfortunately 19:31
guifa is making a keybaord and thought about including the VS15 (text selection) by default but it doesn’t like
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guifa Handling VSes are weird. On the one hand, they’re not supposed to be semantic at all so theoretically they can be ignored. OTOH, by virtue of that, people use them to distinguish and they become significant 19:32
AlexDaniel guifa: I had a custom layout with a bunch of unicode stuff, I didn't use most of the keys
guifa: somehow using compose key is way easier 19:33
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guifa It would be great if I had access to the hold-key-down menu that Mac OS will pop up 19:33
But it actually is possible for me to have someone type option-S for Set operators, and then type out whatever it is like “element” and then the ∈ shows up 19:34
vrurg guifa: I made a special Perl 6 keyboard a while ago with most important (as I thought) symbols accessible via Opt. Hold down would be better but don't know yet to make it. 19:35
What annoys me is that there is no way to use to use touch bar. Emojis? Yeah, plenty, use them! Serious stuff? What for??? 19:37
guifa Agreed. The inability for writing quick plugins for the touchbar is like a giant WTF Apple
OTOH it seems like it wouldn’t be too hard to implement something for Comma. But that would definitely be bottom of the priority list 19:38
vrurg Aha. So far, I'm ok with opt-key mappings and perhaps will find some time to have hold-down work too. 19:41
guifa I think the hold down requires programming a IME 19:42
The basic keyboard layouts are just XML files which are easy to edit
(Especially using Ukelele) 19:43
El_Che macos is the worst I have seen in my life for keyboard setup 19:44
they just took qwerty shortcuts and expect it to be ok on other layouts 19:45
ó == alt + shift + 1 + o
that's crazy stuff
I had to dive in the karabiner xml stuff to add usefull shortcuts for azerty 19:46
(luckily it's not my main os)
guifa What? I’ve never seen that for ó. On US keyboard it’s opt-E, o, on the Spanish, it’s ´, o 19:47
El_Che exactly
qwerty is OK
other layouts: use qwerty shortcuts but don't take the new positions of the chars in accounts
-s
you know alt+tab alternative alt+` ? 19:48
the ` is on the right side of the keyboard
so you need 2 hands
wtf
utter completely garbarge 19:49
I am one of those people that can fix that (and uploaded the stuff to github :) ), but regular mac users can't. The settings are crap.
intenational qwerty with dead keys works well in Linux and Windows 19:51
so moving from azerty to qwerty there was ok
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