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Geth doc/io-cathandle-ref: 653c334c60 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/IO/CatHandle.pod6
Fix incorrect and unneeded link to self
 00:09
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3504:
Fix incorrect and unneeded link to self		 00:10
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vrurg .tell SmokeMachine I have a few comments in gist.github.com/vrurg/3bbefcf3edc6...e4147ec712 01:05
tellable6 vrurg, I'll pass your message to SmokeMachine
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Xliff Is there a quick nqp equivalent for: @items.map( *.name.chars ).max; 01:29
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japhb m: grammar Foo { token TOP { <foo> }; token foo { <bar> }; token bar { a <( b )> c }; }; Foo.parse('abc'); 01:39
camelia ( no output )
japhb m: grammar Foo { token TOP { <foo> }; token foo { <bar> }; token bar { a <( b )> c }; }; Foo.parse('abc').say;
camelia ｢abc｣
foo => ｢abc｣
bar => ｢b｣
japhb Given the above ^^, how would one make the matches for foo and TOP be the same as bar (that is to say, 'b' instead of 'abc')? 01:40
Xliff japhb: But that's not what you are asking for in the grammar. 01:41
To do what you want, you'd have to mangle foo to return bar[0] 01:42
japhb: Is there a reason, you can't use $/<bar>? 01:43
japhb Xliff: This is cut down from a larger example, but in the real grammar token bar can actually be several different things, some of which need <( )> and some don't. So I want to get whatever bar claims is its match when I use it in token foo. 01:46
Basically I want to be able to refactor and change <bar> and have the decision made locally in token bar decide what higher-level tokens think is its match. 01:47
Xliff Ah. A bit above my experience level, I'm afraid. 01:48
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[Coke] I think you'd want to have a make in the actions, no? 01:58
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[Coke] m: grammar Foo { token TOP { <foo> }; token foo { <bar> { $<bar>} }; token bar { a <( b )> c }; }; Foo.parse('abc').say; 02:12
camelia ｢abc｣
foo => ｢abc｣
bar => ｢b｣
[Coke] ^^ I think the extra $<bar> there *should* work, doesn't, but I don't know why. :(
guifa2 [Coke]: Are you wanting it to actually fail on 'abc' but match correctly on 'abcb'? 02:15
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[Coke] I don't want anything. :) 02:16
guifa2 The $<bar> works just fine for me, but it's in a plain code block so doesn't actually affect anything
[Coke] was just trying to get it to return bar's match for foo
guifa2 m: grammar Foo { token TOP { <foo> }; token foo { <bar> { $<bar>.say } }; token bar { a <( b )> c }; }; Foo.parse('abc').say
camelia ｢b｣
｢abc｣
foo => ｢abc｣
bar => ｢b｣
guifa2 Ah, I think I understand. You'd like $<foo> to be equivalent to $<bar>, that is, "b" alone? 02:18
[Coke] m: grammar Foo { token TOP { <foo> }; token foo { <bar> }; token bar { a <( b )> c }; }; class Foo-A { method foo($/) { make $/<bar>[0]} }; say Foo.parse('abc', actions=>Foo-A);
camelia ｢abc｣
foo => ｢abc｣
bar => ｢b｣
[Coke] (that's what I started with, was trying to simplify incorrectly) 02:19
guifa2 How about doing this? Not sure if it's what you're aiming for 02:20
m: grammar Foo { token TOP { $<foo>=<.bar> }; token bar { a <( b )> c }; }; Foo.parse('abc').say;
camelia ｢abc｣
foo => ｢b｣
[Coke] also: you could be using a named capture inside bar 02:22
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guifa2 is brainfarting 02:45
How do you get (@a, @b) = (@b, @a) to DWIM? I swear I had this come up a few months ago and I forgot how 02:46
guifa2 . o O ( or was it that you can't, because the first LHA gobbles up all the values in the list? ) 02:59
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timotimo m: my @a = <a b c>; my @b = <x y z>; \(@a, @b) := (@b, @a); say @a; say @b 03:32
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side
at <tmp>:1
------> 3; my @b = <x y z>; \(@a, @b) := (@b, @a)7⏏5; say @a; say @b
timotimo m: my @a = <a b c>; my @b = <x y z>; (@a, @b) := (@b, @a); say @a; say @b
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side
at <tmp>:1
------> 3>; my @b = <x y z>; (@a, @b) := (@b, @a)7⏏5; say @a; say @b
timotimo m: my @a = <a b c>; my @b = <x y z>; (@a, @b) = (@b, @a); say @a; say @b 03:33
camelia (\Array_79762688 = [[] Array_79762688])
[]
timotimo m: my @a = <a b c>; my @b = <x y z>; \(@a, @b) = (@b, @a); say @a; say @b
camelia Cannot modify an immutable Capture (\(["a", "b", "c"], [...)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: my @a = <a b c>; my @b = <x y z>; ($@a, $@b) = (@b, @a); say @a; say @b
camelia Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo don't remember if there's a way
guifa2 It's not a huge deal, I just like really working my code to be both efficient and readable (like heck anyone's gonna say Raku's an unreadable mess of line code with my stuff haha) 03:35
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holyghost I've started the evolutionary computation package, it's on github.com/theholyghost2/p6-Evo-GA 04:35
I'm working on it on Xliff's server 04:36
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Geth doc/ref-io-cathandle: ffc7bc0944 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/IO/ArgFiles.pod6
xref IO::CatHandle
 05:05
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3505:
xref IO::CatHandle		 05:06
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Geth doc: 970178277a | stoned++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/IO/CatHandle.pod6
Fix incorrect and unneeded link to self (#3504)
 06:16
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/IO::CatHandle
DOC#3504 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/pull/3504 Fix incorrect and unneeded link to self
Geth doc: a264809f48 | stoned++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/IO/ArgFiles.pod6
xref IO::CatHandle (#3505)
 06:17
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/IO::ArgFiles
DOC#3505 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/pull/3505 xref IO::CatHandle
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Geth doc: 58009e8d63 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Match.pod6
Fixes example for Match.pos

Also definition; it's not a method, it's inherited from NQPMatchRole where it's defined in NQP. So not a Raku method, definitely. Closes #3506		 10:47
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/Match
DOC#3506 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/3506 [docs] Example for Match.pos is wrong
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SmokeMachine Yesterday I've continued writing the Red Architecture tutorial for Red docs. If some one have some time/interest could help me taking a look? English isn't my first language and I'm far from being fluent, so I need a lot of help. github.com/FCO/Red/blob/master/doc...tecture.md 12:02
tellable6 2020-07-08T01:05:37Z #raku <vrurg> SmokeMachine I have a few comments in gist.github.com/vrurg/3bbefcf3edc6...e4147ec712
SmokeMachine .tell vrurg thanks! my irc client is out, I've haven't seen that! Thanks! 12:03
tellable6 SmokeMachine, I'll pass your message to vrurg
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rypervenche Is there a difference between: \var = "blah"; and: $var := "blah"; and: \var := "blah"; ? 12:22
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masak ahoy, #raku 13:08
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masak evalable6: help 13:14
evalable6 masak, Like this: evalable6: say ‘hello’; say ‘world’ # See wiki for more examples: github.com/Raku/whateverable/wiki/Evalable
masak evalable6: say "hi"
evalable6 hi
masak \o/
AlexDaniel say "hi" 13:15
evalable6 hi
masak say e 13:18
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masak hehe. sorry, the "what's the rule?" exploiter in me kicks in :) 13:20
guess the answer is in a github repo somewhere
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El_Che ahoy, sailor masak 13:29
masak and sail the seas I do. avast! 13:36
masak .oO( unsinkable, save for infinite recursion ) 13:37
El_Che masak: next time be a pirate! 13:38
masak and make statistical models in R! aye!
El_Che you can help jnthn with the M(oarVM)AST! 13:52
jnthn masak is already indirectly to blame for RakuAST :P 13:53
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El_Che haaha 13:55
arh argh 13:56
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timotimo .o( tuxedo masak ) 14:03
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raku-bridge <Vendethiel> .oO( do all our bots dress up? :-P ) 14:19
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Geth doc/io-argfiles-path-to-raku: 0f49857013 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/IO/ArgFiles.pod6
Use 'raku' command and '.raku' file extension
 14:31
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3507:
Use 'raku' command and '.raku' file extension
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jdv79 timotimo: hmm, so lembark's is a proc async related thing? 14:55
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jdv79 i don't have proc async in mine 14:55
timotimo the "run" sub is implemented using Proc::Async nowadays
jdv79 no execing of any sort 14:57
i'm curious about your comment about text seeming to take more mem that it should
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jdv79 *than 14:57
maybe i can golf mine down a bit soon 14:58
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Geth doc: a58eac022a | stoned++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/IO/ArgFiles.pod6
Use 'raku' command and '.raku' file extension (#3507)
 15:12
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/IO::ArgFiles
DOC#3507 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/pull/3507 Use 'raku' command and '.raku' file extension
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JJMerelo So I broke comma 15:44
First the icons disappeared, then the IDE (just the splash for a while), now everything
Any idea how to fix it?
Delete the .commaCT20.04 directory? 15:45
Well, that fixed it. 15:46
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Geth ecosystem/JJ-patch-16: d0b0a136f5 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Add Grammar::Message
 16:13
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Geth ecosystem: JJ++ created pull request #514:
Add Grammar::Message		 16:13
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Geth ecosystem: d0b0a136f5 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Add Grammar::Message
 16:21
ecosystem: acc22648bf | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Merge pull request #514 from Raku/JJ-patch-16

Add Grammar::Message
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SpaceOpera Hello, I am trying to install the latest Rakudo Star bundle on Ubuntu linux 18.04. But the installation instructions produce this error: "rakudo-star-*.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file or directory" on the second step (curl command). Any suggestions? 16:56
jdv79 where is second step exactly? 16:59
SpaceOpera Here: rakudo.org/star/source under Build for Linux/MacOS 17:00
eery Yeah that link is broken, rakudo.org/latest/star/src points to a 404 17:01
try "wget github.com/rakudo/star/archive/202...c1.tar.gz" 17:03
jdv79 that's a bit old
eery newest release on github's release tab 17:04
[Coke] I never did understand why people built R-Star from source.
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[Coke] (as opposed to building rakudo-latest release) 17:05
jdv79 SpaceOpera: do you need star? you could just install rakudo and zef off master 17:06
[Coke] rakudo.org/star/source - those accordions seem *very* slow here. just me?
s/master/latest release/ even.
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SpaceOpera Okay, then. It's not me being unable to follow the instructions. I will try installing the binary release from the downloads page. Thanks. 17:08
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[Coke] ... keep in mind that the front page shows an old version! 17:28
make sure you click through to "older releases" and get the *newer* release.
also: who maintains the rakudo site? Can we get this fixed?
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El_Che SpaceOpera: ttps://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg#debian-ubuntu-lmde-and-mint 17:46
SpaceOpera: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg#debian...e-and-mint
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El_Che SpaceOpera: I maintain those pkgs in case you have any problem with them 17:47
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Voldenet Obviously people build r-star from source, because they can 18:10
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eery I kind of remember trying to build zef by itself and failing, maybe I never tried though 18:21
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cpan-raku New module released to CPAN! JSON::Fast (0.11) by 03TIMOTIMO 18:49
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Geth doc: interlab++ created pull request #3508:
update method start for Proc::Async		 19:16
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petrprog Hi all) Is Rakudo ready for production? 20:27
Raku
jdv79 yes, no, maybe so...
"depends"
it is used in production if that helps 20:28
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petrprog Where Raku used for? 20:29
Can i use it for web Android desktop development? 20:30
lizmat probably not 20:31
petrprog I always was big fan of Perl, but Raku... 20:32
lizmat well, you can use Raku well for most things you used to use Perl for 20:33
jdoege Can someone knowledgeable comment on the intent and the reality of Rakudo Star releases? What is available for download seems out of sync with what is current.
petrprog Thanks for answers)) 20:34
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lizmat jdoege: it's complicated 20:35
the person who did the rakudo * releases in the way past, does not want to be involved anymore 20:36
sena_kun petrprog, in real life you get the compiler, zef and enjoy.
lizmat Patrick Spek decided to pick it up, and re-create the workflow of Rakudo Star which was broken after an extensive refactor of the build logic of Raku
he's made Rakudo Star available as a personal project 20:37
now the discussion / decision to be made is really: is Rakudo Star a core thing? Or is it a personal thing
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jdoege I saw that but it is only available for Linux, sadly. I use a mac as my primary environment. 20:38
lizmat and updating websites and links is falling through the cracks at this point
well, I don't think Patrick has access to a Mac system
jdoege Oh, it should def be a core thing. It is crucial to the success of Raku that there be an easy way for someone to get started.
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jdoege The only link on the website to download points to Rakudo Star which is now out of date. Without it or something equivalent, how would someone reasonably use the language? 20:40
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rypervenche Well, you can install the compiler, which IS up-to-date and then use zef to install any modules that you need/want. 20:40
jdoege I think the compiler is source only, no? 20:41
SmokeMachine Hi again! I've started writing the Red Cook Book on it's documentation. Would someone like to take a look at it, please? github.com/FCO/Red/blob/master/doc...ookbook.md 20:42
jdoege Compiling from source is non-trivial for Mac and PC. 20:43
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lizmat because on Mac you need XCode ? 20:43
jdoege For one, yeah. 20:44
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lizmat guess I've always had that, not realizing it is not default 20:44
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jdoege I am, at this point, not talking about me but about the success of Raku at large. requiring compilation from source would be a fairly significant barrier to Mac and PC users. 20:45
Most people using scripting languages, I would wager, aren't steeped in build processes. 20:46
rypervenche jdoege: The download files on rakudo.org are all pre-compiled and have binaries. 20:47
ShimmerFairy Rakudo Star's offering is to come with the batteries included, not that it comes compiled.
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jdoege @rypervencche: they appear to be 2020.01 which is a bit behind current. 20:48
ShimmerFairy: fine to say, but until lately, that is how they have come and it is a significant benefit to new users. 20:49
codesections To provide a bit of a counterpoint: I have started writing Raku fairly recently (past couple of weeks) and found the installation process pretty smooth 20:50
ShimmerFairy Yeah, my conception of Rakudo Star's purpose may be out of date.
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jdoege To be sure, installing Raku from Rakudo Star 2020.01 is very smooth. It is just out of date and looks like it will not be brought up to date. Going forward that appears to be a bit of a problem for some new adopters. 20:51
lizmat agree that it is a problem 20:52
codesections I first installed via my distro's package manager without any issues (just to test it out in the easiest way possible). After I decided I wanted to explore more seriously, I installed Rakudo Star, again without issues (I think I ran into a couple of broken links, but an different link in related docs). That got me a much newer version than the one my distro had – from sometime this year, even
lizmat one that should be solved for 2020.07 (hopefully)
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codesections and I later (just recently) installed from source to run some performace tests (since I'd read that startup times were improving) 20:53
None of that is to say it shouldn't be a lot better. Speaking as a new user, I agree that onboarding new folks is great :D 20:54
Maybe the difference in my perspective is that it's hard for me to feel like 2020.01 is old; compared to most languages, that seems like a pretty recent release 20:55
jdoege I apologize if this sounds like complaining. I know and thoroughly appreciate this is a volunteer effort. This is more about a deep desire to see Raku become a broadly accepted language.
And a bit of a selfish desire to enjoy some of the improvements being made. 20:56
:-D
rypervenche jdoege: Perhaps I'm looking at something different from you, but they're all 2020.06-01 for me.
jdoege raku.org/downloads/ 20:57
rypervenche jdoege: I'm talking about the tarballs/zip files of the binaries, not the installable file. Which I would agree, would be useful for those who use those OSes.
jdoege rakudo.org/star/
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jdoege Even the Raku website says 2020.01 20:57
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jdoege It's only because I follow a lot of Raku news that I am aware of more recent versions. 20:58
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jdoege Oh, wow, the Rakudo Star Bundle links on the rakudo.org site are all 404. 20:59
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jdoege rypervenche: I see what you are referring to. If that's how things will be done, it will be best to update raku.org to point to that part of the rakudo website and have some instruction on how to procede. 21:02
Thanks to everyone for the answers and clarification. 21:03
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Zero_Dogg El_Che: For rakudo-pkg, is there any specific reason gpg verification of the Fedora RPMs are disabled? 21:07
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rypervenche Does anyone know if this YAML output from YAMLish is my fault or just how YAMLish works? gist.github.com/rypervenche/36c551...4b6e4683f8 21:25
I was expecting the "number" to be on the same line as the "-". Like "- number"
lizmat does not know enough YAML to answer that 21:26
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SmokeMachine Also, if some one have any suggestions to add here, please: github.com/FCO/Red/blob/master/doc...ookbook.md 21:32
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tinita rypervenche: the number can be on the - line, but does not have to 21:43
rypervenche tinita: Yeah, I'm reading through the YAML spec now. It seems my way of doing it is the compact version.
tinita but it would be the recommended form, and libyaml also puts it on the same line
rypervenche: may I also suggest www.yaml.info/ ? it's in progress, but if you have time, I'm glad for feedback 21:44
www.yaml.info/learn/bestpractices.html - There is an example under "Formatting" 21:45
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rypervenche Thanks. I never knew about some of compact forms. :) 21:50
lizmat tinita++ # just in general also :-) 21:53
tinita blush 21:56
lizmat++ =)
rypervenche I'm going to see if I have enough Raku knowledge to add a :compact option to YAMLish. I doubt it, but who knows... 21:57
lizmat ++rypervenche 21:59
codesections Is there a philosophical/design reason that Raku makes it much more verbose to work with Maps than hashes? In other words, Hoffman codding suggests Raku "wants" me to be using the mutable data structure, which feels like an odd fit with how much Raku otherwise supports functional programming. Am I missing something?
lizmat codesections 22:02
are you aware you can say:
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lizmat my %h is Map = ....; ? 22:02
codesections Aha, no I was not.
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codesections So, yes, I *was* missing something :) 22:03
lizmat m: mh %h is Map = a => 42, b => 666;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '%h' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3mh 7⏏5%h is Map = a => 42, b => 666;
lizmat m: my %h is Map = a => 42, b => 666;
camelia ( no output )
lizmat m: my %h is Map = a => 42, b => 666;; dd %hj
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '%hj' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my %h is Map = a => 42, b => 666;; dd 7⏏5%hj
lizmat m: my %h is Map = a => 42, b => 666;; dd %h
camelia Map.new((:a(42),:b(666)))
lizmat grrr
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lizmat codesections: that also applies to Set / Bag and family 22:03
m: my %s is Set = ^10; dd Set
camelia Set
lizmat m: my %s is Set = ^10; dd %s 22:04
camelia Set.new(6,1,2,8,5,3,4,0,7,9)
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codesections Thanks, that's good to know. I'm slightly confused by the sigils, though: when I created a map with Map.new and a % sigil, I just got a hash. So why does the % sigil work in `my %h is Map`? 22:08
m: my %map = Map.new('a', 42); %map<a> = "This works"; say %map.WHAT
camelia (Hash)
timotimo assigning to a % or @ sigiled variable is "list-assignment"-[ike 22:09
which iterates the right-hand side into the left-hand container
the default container for "my %map" is Hash, but if you "is Map" it, it will be Map instead
codesections my %map is Map = a => 42; %map<a> = "This doesn't work";
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codesections timotimo: thanks. I'm not *sure* I fully have my head around that yet – but I probably just need to spend a bit more time with the container docs. In the meantime, is it better to use $ or % for maps? 22:15
The Map docs use $, but it looks like the `is Map` shortcut won't work with those…?
timotimo one difference worth considering is that a $ variable will not be iterated over, because $ is for "items" 22:16
m: my $foo = { a => 1, b => 2 }; my %foo = a => 1, b => 2; for $foo { say "$_ is in foo" }; for %foo { say "$_ is in percent foo" }
camelia a 1
b 2 is in foo
b 2 is in percent foo
a 1 is in percent foo
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lizmat m: my %map is Map = a => 42; %map<a> = "This doesn't work"; 22:19
[00:09:41] aborazmeh (~aborazmeh@unaffiliated/aborazmeh) left IRC (Remote host clo
camelia Cannot change key 'a' in an immutable Map
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat m: my %map is Map = a => 42; %map<a> = "This doesn't work"
camelia Cannot change key 'a' in an immutable Map
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat m: my %map is Map = a => 42; %map<a>:delete
camelia Can not remove values from a Map
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat m: my %map is Map = a => 42; %map<c> = 666
camelia Cannot add key 'c' to an immutable Map
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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codesections Yep, that's the behaviour one'd want out of an immutable container all right! 22:22
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lizmat m: my %map is Map = a => 42; %map<c> := 666 22:48
camelia Cannot bind to Map
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat m: my %map is Map = a => 42; %map<a> := 666
camelia Cannot bind to Map
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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