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codesections m: dd $*RAKU.compiler 00:01
camelia Compiler rakudo = Compiler.new(id => "B0D6A0338B85BFBFE1C14B4AEDA60C0788BB2C25", release => "", codename => "", name => "rakudo", auth => "The Perl Foundation", version => v2020.07.66.g.2.db.92.e.04.f, signature => Blob, desc => Str)
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fooist Does anyone here know what the status/provenance is of the p6dists.json.gz file in CPAN (under /authors)? Sorry 02:40
Total raku #n00b 02:41
Mostly wondering if it’s officially supported 02:42
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moritz fooist: iirc it's the file that package managers use to get a list of p6/raku distributions on CPAN 05:08
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sarna o/ 07:13
Geth ecosystem: 318bb77d0d | (Daniel Lathrop)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
remove duplicate from META.list
 07:15
ecosystem: 14877cef2d | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Merge pull request #526 from fooist/patch-1

remove duplicate from META.list
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sarna m: say join("hello ", "world"); say ("hello ", "world").join; # is there a viable use case for `sub join` when `*@list` has < 2 things in it? 07:22
camelia world
hello world
JJMerelo what's happened to "hello"? 07:29
tellable6 2020-08-16T21:06:49Z #raku <lizmat> JJMerelo github.com/Raku/advent/blob/master.../rfc200.md
2020-08-17T22:52:12Z #raku <tbrowder> jjmerelo: how often are public-facing doc pages regenerated? do i need to trash my browser cache to see an update?
JJMerelo .tell tbrowder they are updated... from time to time. I'll do it today.
tellable6 JJMerelo, I'll pass your message to tbrowder
sarna JJMerelo: sub's signature is `sub join($separator, *@list)`, it thinks "hello " is the separator, and "world" is the list :( 07:33
it's very confusing when you first encounter it
JJMerelo Ah, right, of course...
sarna it could check the length of the list, but idk about performance loss/use cases I missed 07:35
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Geth advent: 51018fd824 | (JJ Merelo)++ | 20th/articles/rfc265.md
Minor modifications
 08:04
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Geth ecosystem: 9f1c7aa568 | (JJ Merelo)++ | 2 files
Rearranges test file

So that it builds before testing for the existence of files. Closes #527 It also updates to use the latest version of the Docker container, which includes make and gcc		 08:32
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tbrowder .tell jjmerelo thnx, amigo 09:56
tellable6 tbrowder, I'll pass your message to JJMerelo
tbrowder gracias 09:57
tellable6 2020-08-19T07:29:38Z #raku <JJMerelo> tbrowder they are updated... from time to time. I'll do it today.
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sarna is there really no way of preventing Nil propagation in method chains? I'd prefer it to fail fast :( 10:13
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sarna can I maybe specify that I want to take `self:D`? not sure how to do that.. 10:20
oh no, that wouldn't work, since every method called on Nil returns Nil >.> 10:21
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codesections sarna: hmmm, you seem to be right, that doesn't work; I'm a bit surprised 10:29
m: class A { method n { Nil }; method non-nil(A:D $:) { 42}}; say A.new.n.non-nil
camelia Nil
sarna codesections: I've found this - stackoverflow.com/questions/601552...2#60155442
I don't find the reasoning (not having to insert null checks between chains) that convincing 10:30
m: class A { method n { Nil }; method non-nil(A:D $:) { 42}}; my $foo = A.new.n; say $foo.non-nil
camelia No such method 'non-nil' for invocant of type 'Any'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
sarna this dies (as it should), but you have to break up your method chains like this, every time.. 10:31
codesections And that makes sense, given how assigning Nil works 10:33
sarna yeah, but I'd say the default behavior is LTA - nothing less fun than hunting for a bug that propagated from something deep down the call stack 10:34
Nil carries absolutely no information 10:35
codesections m: class A { method n { Nil }; method non-nil(A:D $:) { 42}}; say (my $ = A.new.n).non-nil
camelia No such method 'non-nil' for invocant of type 'Any'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
codesections that's pretty ugly, though
sarna it is, and the ugliness is O(n) where n is the number of methods in a chain 10:37
codesections Yep! 10:38
Though, I think it'd work without the `my` which helps (very slightly)
sarna maybe raku has something like dart's cascade notation? that would help - stackoverflow.com/questions/494477...ot-in-dart 10:40
I may be onto something 10:42
m: class A { method n { Nil }; method non-nil(A:D $:) { 42}}; $ = A.new.n; $ .= non-nil; .say
camelia No such method 'non-nil' for invocant of type 'Any'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
sarna just replace all dots with `$ .=` et voila 10:43
codesections Is that really less ugly than 10:44
m: class A { method n { Nil }; method non-nil(A:D $:) { 42}}; say ($ =A.new.n).non-nil
camelia No such method 'non-nil' for invocant of type 'Any'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
sarna semicolons instead of parens? :D 10:45
mine would read better when splitted across multiple lines 10:46
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codesections oooh, I think I have something: 10:47
m: sub postfix:<‽>($a) { $ = $a}; class A { method n { Nil }; method non-nil(A:D $:) { 42}}; say A.new.n‽.non-nil
camelia No such method 'non-nil' for invocant of type 'Any'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
sarna codesections: what's that? 10:49
oh darn it's your own operator 10:50
I searched for it in the docs :DDD
codesections :D
sarna I love this
also I hate this
codesections Agreed 10:51
sarna noo you can't do ‽<newline>. :((( 10:53
all the methods have to be on one line
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codesections Hmmm, I've run into that problem with &.subroutine method calls too 10:56
tobs it's probably better to extinguish that behavior at the source if you dislike it and don't want to change your entire code to a new method call operator: 11:01
m: Nil.^find_method("FALLBACK").wrap: -> $, $ { fail 'method call on Nil' }; class A { method n { Nil }; method non-nil (A:D $:) { 42 } }; say A.new.n.non-nil 11:02
camelia method call on Nil
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
sarna monkey patching Nil because I don't like a design decision? is that legal?
tobs by keeping the return value of that wrap call you can make the change lexical by unwrapping at scope exit 11:03
actually, I am not sure how stable wrapping core class's methods is
sarna that still seems heavy-handed, and confusing to whoever will come and look at my code 11:04
codesections tobs: I like that approach. It strikes me that forgetting to unwrap that at the end of a scope could break … lots of things, though
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codesections sarna: I'm not getting an error when breaking the method chain across multiple lines with the new operator 11:09
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sarna codesections: where do you break it? I tried `foo?!<newline>.bar` and I kept getting "bogus operator" 11:09
tbrowder hi, anyone use raku on win 10 as primary os? 11:11
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tbrowder if so, what is preferred raku installation method and editor? thnx 11:12
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tbrowder win is not my cup of tea, but trying to wean grandson off python and such 11:14
as is taught in govt schools 11:15
kawaii Is there some way to switch the state of a Bool between True/False without doing some janky if statement saying `if $blah = True { $blah = False }`? :) 11:22
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Altai-man kawaii, $blah = !$blah2? 11:22
kawaii (implying I don't know the state of the Bool, I just want to switch it regardless)
Altai-man $blah = !$blah?
kawaii ah :D
wait really 11:23
this is a thing
codesections sarna: here's the code that was working for me with newlines gist.github.com/codesections/445e2...aac75d5462
kawaii Altai-man++
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codesections kawaii: and you don't really need the final `?`, though it might make the expression clearer, at least to some readers 11:26
kawaii codesections: trust me, no one is capable of reading anything I write :)
codesections :D 11:27
sarna codesections: repl.it/repls/OnerlookedAngryClimate#main.raku take a look here, without line 8 it works fine 11:28
codesections hmm, odd. I *bet* that's something to do with the precedence/associativity of the operator, but I'm not sure. docs.raku.org/language/functions#Precedence 11:31
SmokeMachine is there a way of getting the block that called the current block? 11:35
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codesections SmokeMachine: I assume CALLER doesn't do what you want, because you want the actual _block_ and not a way to look up symbols in that block? 11:42
SmokeMachine codesections: it would be... but it doesn't seem to work inside a Proxy's fetch block... :( 11:46
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SmokeMachine I was trying to do something like this to make rerun every block where the variable was used when it changes it value: 11:50
m: my %blocks is SetHash; my $a := Proxy.new: FETCH => sub fetch(|) { say CALLER; %blocks{CALLER} = True; 42 }, STORE => -> $, | { .() for %blocks.keys }; sub bla { say $a }; bla; $a = 13
camelia (CALLER)
Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Uninstantiable; CALLER)
in block at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

(CALLER)
(CALLER)
(CALLER)
(CALLER)
(CALLER)
(CALLER)
42
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Geth doc/default-0: 421864a707 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/Baggy.pod6
Current and explicit Baggy.default signature
 12:01
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3565:
Current and explicit Baggy.default signature
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kawaii Is there a clean way of removing a value from an @array if what we try to `push` already exists? 12:25
andinus why push if it already exists? 12:27
moritz you mean, moving an element to the end?
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kawaii andinus: because the $end-user doesn't know if it exists or not :) but you're saying I should check first before pushing in my code? 12:28
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kawaii I was just wondering if there was some built-in logic 12:28
moritz kawaii: does the order of elements matter?
kawaii nope
moritz then maybe a Set is the better data structure 12:29
because there adding an element that's already in there is a no-op
kawaii I was thinking Hash
moritz and checking if an element is in a set is fast, compared to an array 12:30
kawaii: a Set is basically Hash without values
do you need to store values?
kawaii I don't, so you're probably right about using a Set
moritz I use hashes a lot in p5, but python has taught me to take sets seriously :D 12:31
lizmat and then the SetHash variety, if you want a mutable one
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moritz lizmat++ good point, forgot that sets are immutable by default 12:32
kawaii ah, yes I need to add and remove from it regularly :)
moritz: `my SetHash[Str] $monitored-channels;`, so once I've defined it, how would I `push` a value here? :) 12:35
It's basically storing just a few hundred strings
(but by default will be empty) 12:36
moritz my SetHash[Str] $monitored-channels .= new(); $monitored-channels<stuff> = True;
docs.raku.org/type/SetHash
kawaii www.irccloud.com/pastebin/C0xdswFQ/ 12:39
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kawaii moritz: hey this is really cool :D 12:39
thanks!
moritz my pleasure 12:40
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lizmat kawaiiL it you're using a SetHash, you can also use the .set and .unset methods 13:03
m: my %sh is SetHash; %sh.set(1,2,3,4); dd %sh; %sh.unset(2,3); dd %sh 13:04
camelia Too many positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 5
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat hmmm
kawaii lizmat: `$monitored-channels{$message.channel-id} = !$monitored-channels{$message.channel-id};` I'm doing it like this to flip between adding and removing based on the user running a command :)
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lizmat m: my %sh is SetHash; %sh.set((1,2,3,4)); dd %sh; %sh.unset((2,3)); dd %sh 13:04
camelia SetHash.new(4,3,1,2)
SetHash.new(4,1)
lizmat hmmm... I guess that a. needs documentation, and b. another slurpy candidate
codesections I have documenting that (and BagHash.add) on my to-do list 13:05
lizmat codesections: could you create an issue for the above problem> 13:06
tobs m: my $b = True; $b .= not; say $b # kawaii: another way to toggle a boolean without mentioning it twice 13:07
lizmat ?
camelia False
codesections lizmat: will do!
lizmat codesections++
kawaii tobs: there are too many ways of doing these things, raku has spoiled me :) 13:08
codesections tobs: the only inconsistency there is that $b != $b _looks_ like it should do the same thing, but that means something else entirely :) 13:09
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tobs yeah, I guess Raku made a concession to the widespread use of != there. 13:12
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codesections agreed. In retrospect (and with the knowledge of how many people will know at least a little JS, with its broken comparitors), I kind of wish we'd gone with `!==` 13:14
lizmat codesections: but you can 13:15
m: say 42 !=== 666
camelia True
lizmat m: say 42 !== 666
camelia True
lizmat prefix ! is a meta op in that context 13:16
so if you want your code to be more readable in that respect, you can
codesections Ok, fair point. But I meant that we could have not had `!=` be a comparison operator, which would have freed it up to be the negation operator with assignment 13:17
to keep the parallelism with .= and other assignment meta ops
jdv79 =! isn't good enough for you;) 13:19
codesections jdv79: ha, I didn't know you could put the whitespace like that! 13:21
lizmat m: sub infix:<!=>(\a,\b) { a = !b }; my $a != True; say $a 13:26
camelia False
codesections :D 13:27
tobs for the original task we'd want this to be "prefix mutating unary metaop"-lookalike though 13:30
m: sub prefix:<!=>($a is rw) { $a .= not }; my $b = True; say $b; say !=$b; say $b
camelia True
False
False
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AlexDaniel lizmat: != and ≠ are roughly the same in performance, !== is much slower 13:40
pretty much any uncommon syntax is several times slower 13:41
rir How to "redirect" $*ERR to $some-Str for a bit? 13:42
lizmat AlexDaniel: nothing a "constant &infix:<!==> = &infix:<!=>" wouldn't fix 13:44
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codesections AlexDaniel: only "roughly the same"? I thought they _were_ the same operation 13:45
m: say &infix<!=> === &infix<≠>
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
infix used at line 1. Did you mean 'index', 'indir'?
codesections m: say &infix:<!=> === &infix:<≠> 13:46
camelia True
rir ^ s/for a bit/for more than one bit/ Ha!
lizmat codesections: they are the same
AlexDaniel lizmat: that's probably true
lizmat: IIRC ≠ required a bit of wiggling to make sure it works right and is fast at the same time, I guess indeed the same can be applied to other ops 13:47
lizmat m: dd &infix:<≠>.name # they're aliased 13:48
camelia "infix:<!=>"
lizmat so there is *no* runtime overhead 13:49
m: my $a = 42; for ^1000000 { my $b := $a != 666 }; say now - INIT now
camelia 0.02375516
lizmat m: constant &infix:<!==> = &infix:<!=>; my $a = 42; for ^1000000 { my $b := $a !== 666 }; say now - INIT now 13:50
camelia 0.0409685
lizmat m: constant &infix:<!==> = &infix:<!=>; my $a = 42; for ^1000000 { my $b := $a !== 666 }; say now - INIT now
camelia 0.0269728
lizmat m: my $a = 42; for ^1000000 { my $b := $a != 666 }; say now - INIT now
camelia 0.024267
lizmat m: my $a = 42; for ^1000000 { my $b := $a != 666 }; say now - INIT now
camelia 0.0246294
lizmat m: constant &infix:<!==> = &infix:<!=>; my $a = 42; for ^1000000 { my $b := $a !== 666 }; say now - INIT now
camelia 0.04128212
AlexDaniel not enough iterations and possibly too much stuff optimized away
lizmat yeah, but anyway, in the same ballpark
codesections Is `note $msg; exit 1` (or other non-zero number) the preferred way to exit a CLI app when printing an error msg to the end user? I thought `die $msg` would be better, but it adds `===SORRY!===`, which the end user doesn't really need to see... 13:56
lizmat codesections: that's how I would do it if it was a compile time error and I would want to get rid of the SORRY
codesections lizmat++ 13:57
(someday, I need to understand Raku's notion of "compile time" better. The error I encountered was based on calling EVALFILE on a file that the user passes in with a CLI flag... and yet that's a compile-time error? I guess because EVALFILE is "compiling" the file before/as it runs it? 13:59
)
lizmat yup 14:00
moritz yes, compile and run time can be nested in each other
EVAL/EVALFILE nests a compile time inside run time
lizmat one of the cases of tormenting the implementor :-) 14:01
moritz and BEGIN (and other constructs) nest in a run time during compile time
tobs rir: I think you would need to wrap a Str inside an IO::Handle like interface and `temp` assign that to $*ERR. There is a module for that: github.com/hoelzro/p6-io-string 14:02
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codesections wow. That's all crazy powerful. But also makes some things a bit harder to reason about. I'm used to thinking of "it's done at compile time" as "it's free at runtime". But I guess that isn't always true with Raku 14:02
(Which might matter as we start doing more compile-time programming with RakuAST)
rir codesections: Tanstafl. tobs: Thanks. 14:04
codesections rir: fair
Geth doc/baggy-bool-eg: 2ce6a8f169 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/Baggy.pod6
Fix example output
 14:09
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3566:
Fix example output		 14:10
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Geth doc: 2ce6a8f169 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/Baggy.pod6
Fix example output
 14:21
doc: 44df452c0b | (Will Coleda)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Baggy.pod6
Merge pull request #3566 from Raku/baggy-bool-eg

Fix example output
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/Baggy
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guifa Um, wow. I figured this refactor would be a little bit faster but I wasn’t expeting it to be THAT much faster 14:45
tellable6 2020-08-18T21:26:41Z #raku <rir> guifa`: Thanks, I'll look at Comma. I've been mired in 'too much to learn' and forgot all about it.
guifa bit.ly/31bSRni
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guifa Basically a three order of magnitude speed up. That should let loading of CLDR data be MUCH faster hopefully 14:46
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xinming m: my $x = "t"; class T { method t { "T v".say } }; (T."$x").raku.say; 15:09
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments. If you meant to concatenate two strings, use '~'.
at <tmp>:1
------> 3ss T { method t { "T v".say } }; (T."$x"7⏏5).raku.say;
xinming I know that T."$x"() works fine. Is it possible that in the future, raku can return the code for T."$x" kind of syntax? 15:10
guifa I’ve always wondered about that requirement myself 15:12
moritz what do you mean by "return the code for"? 15:14
return the method instead of calling it? 15:15
codesections and, relatedly, why does `T."$x"()` work, but T::("$x") does not?
moritz T.^lookup($x)
codesections moritz: I think xinming just meant "restore the functionality to be able to do"
moritz because methods live in a classes (or roles) method table, not in a scope
and T::($x) is a lookup in a scope 15:16
codesections: if you want the method object, and not call it, use T.^lookup($x)
or T.^find_method($x); the two differ a bit when it comes to role and auto punning -- cannot remember which one is better for your use case right now 15:17
codesections yeah, I get all that :). I've been diving pretty deep into these introspection methods
I'm saying that there's some special casing to get T."$x"() to work
guifa moritz: what’s the logic in requiring () though for calling? Obviously, normally you just need to do foo.call-method, and not foo.call-method(). It’s seemed odd to me to require the parentheses for the quoted method, though I’m sure there’s a reason 15:18
codesections it has to resolve "$x" into `t`, and then lookup `t` in the T method table
and it seems like the same special casing could just as easily apply to T::("$x"), and increase consistency by doing so 15:19
moritz guifa: that has to do with producing better error messages for accidentally using . as the concat operator (a common p5ism)
guifa perlisms strike again lol
xinming moritz: yes, I do mean return the method object with the specified name.
hmm, Ignore me, I just realized, that calling method doesn't require the (). 15:20
so, require $obj."$method-name"() is fine. ;-) 15:21
guifa The recent question on SO about adding a sub infix:«>>» keeps reminding me how catering to users from other languages can sometimes prevent fluent Raku users from doing certain things :-)
moritz on the one hand, I hate that so many p5isms shape current-day raku. OTOH I still use Perl 5 quite a lot, and those error messages often saved my butt
guifa . o O ( although why anyone would really WANT to have a >> infix given how it already pulls at least double duty elsewhere… )
Geth doc: 5ff724940a | stoned++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Baggy.pod6
Current and explicit Baggy.default signature (#3565)
 15:25
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/Baggy
guifa Also, random thought: andthen has basically a perfect precedence level
linkable6 DOC#3565 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/pull/3565 Current and explicit Baggy.default signature
guifa looser than commas so I can still use a colon method call, but tighter than postfix if 15:26
m: say “a”, “b” andthen say “c” if True 15:27
camelia ab
c
guifa m: say “a”, “b” andthen say “c” if False 15:28
camelia ( no output )
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codesections I mentioned this the other day, but I *really* like that this form works: 17:07
m: say 1 ==> {$_ + 1}() 17:08
camelia 1
codesections m: say: 1 ==> {$_ + 1}()
camelia ( no output )
codesections m: ( 1 ==> {$_ + 1}() ).say 17:09
camelia 2
Geth doc/list-eg-output: 7a0b5821fe | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/List.pod6
Uniformize examples' output

And while here, if we would like an example to produce an output, we might as well call `say` :)		 17:10
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3568:
Uniformize examples' output
codesections (grr, getting the output to print correctly there made the syntax less pretty and undermined the point I was making. Oh well)
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xinming m: class B { has $.a is rw; }; class T is B { method t () { $.B::a = 5 }; }; my $o = T.new; $o.t.say; 17:21
camelia No such method 'B::a' for invocant of type 'T'
in method t at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
xinming m: class B { has $.a is rw; }; class T is B { method t () { self.B::a = 5 }; }; my $o = T.new; $o.t.say;
camelia 5
xinming In this case, Should $.B::a work as expected?
hmm, ignore me, I think I realized, that $.meth is to mean $(self.meth) literally 17:22
rypervenche m: 1 ==> {say $_ + 1}(); 17:37
camelia 2
rypervenche codesections: Better? Or not what you wanted?
codesections Meh, close enough :) That's technically printing out the sum of $_ + 1 and then returning True from the block, and I was printing out the return value of the block. But I didn't really care about printing – I just like that we can pass args in from the left when it's clearer to do so! 17:38
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codesections wait... it just occurred to me that we can also do 1.&{$_ + 1} 17:41
rypervenche You win. 17:44
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CIAvash codesections: you can do `==> say()` too 17:48
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brass Hey, is there a way to limit floats to 2 decimal places when printing? 18:28
Or I guess it's a Num, not a float 18:29
codesections m: say '%.2f'.sprintf(20.sqrt) 18:30
camelia 4.47
codesections brass ^^^
docs are here: docs.raku.org/language/independent...ne_sprintf 18:31
tobs or 20.sqrt.fmt('%.2f')
brass Oh awesome, thank you
codesections tobs: oh, I didn't know about that one. Any idea why we have two such similar subs? Just for TIMTOWTDI? 18:32
tobs pretty sure that fmt uses sprintf internally, but one is a method on (format) Strs, the other on Cool 18:33
codesections makes sense 18:34
tobs depends on what is the subject and what the object of that statement in your head, so yes TIMTOWTDI
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[Coke] m: dd FatRat.^methods[*-1] 19:35
camelia Submethod+{is-hidden-from-backtrace} BUILDALL = Submethod+{is-hidden-from-backtrace}.new
kawaii Is it allowed to wrap `when` in `if` within switches like this? www.irccloud.com/pastebin/jbKPVgPn/ 19:37
SmokeMachine is there a way of changing the default class for @, % and $ on a specific class or on a class created by a specific metaclass? 19:43
I mean on attributes 19:44
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guifa` kawaii: it appears to work okay 19:46
kawaii guifa`: thanks for testing, not on my raku box :) 19:47
guifa` kawaii If you've gome complex logic though, you can always use given $blah, $something 19:48
and then
when 1, .not { }; when 2, .not { }, when 3, * { } 19:49
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brass Is it intentional that when I run something like &print.^methods I get completely borked output? 20:03
I get a ton of lines mixed in with the methods that just say "implementation detail and has no serviceable parts inside" and it makes the output unreadable 20:04
Like this imgur.com/WaI2SZO 20:07
Like I can use something like `&print.^methods.grep(!*.gist.contains(" "))' but that seems unnecessary 20:11
lizmat brass: what are you trying to achieve? 20:12
[Coke] when you dump them methods, you're getting a gist of the methods, not the method names.
brass I just like checking out the methods on random things out of curiosity
Ah ok I see
[Coke] m: &print.^methods>>.name 20:13
camelia ( no output )
tadzik m: say &print.^methods».name
camelia (<anon> <anon> <anon> gist multi <anon> leave <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> soft <anon> <anon> package <anon> wrap unwrap <anon> <anon> <anon> onlystar raku cando <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> candidates BUILDALL POSITIONS phasers returns WH…
[Coke] m: dd &print.^methods>>.name
camelia ("<anon>", "leave", "<anon>", "<anon>", "<anon>", "<anon>", "<anon>", "raku", "<anon>", "<anon>", "soft", "<anon>", "cando", "<anon>", "package", "gist", "<anon>", "onlystar", "<anon>", "<anon>", "multi", "<anon>", "<anon>", "<anon>", "<anon>", "wrap"…
tadzik ha :)
[Coke] so that's a little better.
[Coke] shakes his old-man fist in the air.
<-- too slow
brass Haha 20:14
tadzik has the ping advantage
brass What are the anonymous methods use for?
[Coke] is also theoretically supposed to be paying attention to this presentation
m: dd &print.^methods[0]
camelia ForeignCode <anon> = The 'ForeignCode' class is a Rakudo-specific
implementation detail and has no serviceable parts inside
[Coke] m: dd &print.^methods[2] 20:15
camelia ForeignCode <anon> = The 'ForeignCode' class is a Rakudo-specific
implementation detail and has no serviceable parts inside
[Coke] m: dd &print.^methods[3]
camelia Method gist = proto method gist (Mu: |) {*}
[Coke] m: dd &print.^methods[2].Signature
camelia No such method 'Signature' for invocant of type 'ForeignCode'. Did you
mean 'signature'?
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
[Coke] m: dd &print.^methods[2].signature
camelia :(|)
tadzik what a weird smiley face
[Coke] so you can poke around at the individual methods a bit if you want. 20:16
tadzik++
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SmokeMachine how can I do something like this (but that works) 20:36
m: class P is Proxy { has $!value; method new { ::?CLASS.bless: FETCH => -> | { $!value }, STORE => -> $value { $!value = $value } } }; my $p := P.new
camelia Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Null; VMNull)
in method new at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat SmokeMachine: fwiw, I haven't been able to subclass Proxy :-( 20:39
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SmokeMachine lizmat: :( 20:40
I think that's not the first time I do that question...
lizmat perhaps this is of use: gist.github.com/lizmat/4bb3e1d997f...85815a431d 20:42
stoned75 hi it seems the independent routine join's first parameter has a default value, how can I trigger its usage ? 20:43
cf. github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast....pm6#L2146
lizmat interesting: I don't think you can, and it's there for documentation / introspection only 20:44
gist.github.com/lizmat/4bb3e1d997f...85815a431d # for SmokeMachine 20:45
stoned75 that's what I thought but I don't get how it is useful
lizmat it could be considered dead code 20:46
stoned75 ok :)
raku-bridge <primetoxinz> Hello, I'm working a module that is doing some native calls and I have a Pointer[int32] that I'm trying to get the int value out of. my $p = Pointer[int32].new(); # Native call that assigns the value say $p.deref; This causes a segfault. What am I missing? If I say $p I can see the value is visible NativeCall::Types::Pointer[int32]<0x2> 20:51
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Geth ¦ doc: taboege assigned to codesections Issue Document the .add/.remove BagHash methods and the .set/.unset SetHash methods github.com/Raku/doc/issues/3569 20:53
lizmat m: say join'
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Two terms in a row
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say join7⏏5'
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
statement end
statement modifier
…
lizmat m: say join 20:54
camelia
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lizmat stoned75: the reason $sep = '' is in there 20:54
without it, the above would throw an error
stoned75 so a straigth join a is fancy way to get an empty string ? :) 20:56
lizmat yeah, looks like :-)
raku-bridge <primetoxinz> Oh I think I realized part my the problem. I wasn't aware native CPointers don't allocate memory. how would I do that for an Pointer[int32]? 20:57
SmokeMachine lizmat: but I still need to pass FETCH and STORE, right? :( 20:58
thundergnat This fills me with nearly equal parts pleasure and horror: gist.github.com/thundergnat/76b406...a99b80715a
I'm debating whether that is worth packaging up and releasing as a module. 20:59
lizmat SmokeMachine: don't think so
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lizmat as long as the Proxy is set up the correct way and returned, it shouldn't matter 20:59
SmokeMachine no, you are right... I haven't removed the !s
lizmat thundergnat: I seem to recall this is being done for 1,2,4 bit native ints on MoarVM 21:01
or: work is underway to do that
SmokeMachine lizmat: but can I use positional inside the FETCH block?
thundergnat I am somewhat amused that mine will support ANY sized UInt. Want a 23 bit UInt? No problem. :-) 21:02
lizmat SmokeMachine
SmokeMachine: not sure what you mean
thundergnat: 1,2,4 native bit support would also imply native arrays with those sizes 21:03
MasterDuke primetoxinz: i haven't used NativeCall, but i'd suggest asking timotimo or nine, they should be able to help
raku-bridge <primetoxinz> MasterDuke: thanks 21:04
SmokeMachine lizmat: I what to have a attribute on the proxy's child and use it inside the FETCH and STORE blocks 21:07
lizmat what an attribute? Shouldn't a closed over variable have the same functionality ? 21:08
*why 21:09
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SmokeMachine lizmat: to store the value 21:09
lizmat: what I'm trying to do is a "Scalar" that does something on FETCHing and on STOREing besides everything Scalar already do 21:11
lizmat SmokeMachine: have you read raku-advent.blog/2020/08/17/rfc-15...c-objects/ ?
in the "proxier" sub, the $value parameter is closed over and acts as an attribute, no ? 21:12
SmokeMachine lizmat: you mean storing it on a local var? that makes sense... 21:13
lizmat inside the sub you can as many as you want
*the proxier sub
SmokeMachine lizmat: yes, thank you very much! 21:14
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SmokeMachine lizmat: about that, is there a way to change the default Class for @, % and $ on a class being created by a custom meta class? 21:18
without need to do `has @.bla is MyNewDefault`
lizmat actually, I ran into that recently myself
SmokeMachine lizmat: and have you found a way of doing that? 21:19
:)
lizmat m: BEGIN say Array.WHERE; class Array is Array { }; BEGIN say Array.WHERE 21:20
camelia 66032432
139810078667168
lizmat so that establishes that you *can* subclass Array lexically with same name
SmokeMachine m: BEGIN say Array.WHERE; class Array is Array { method what { say "Im not array" } }; BEGIN say Array.WHERE; Array.what 21:21
camelia 52253584
139954543880224
Im not array
lizmat m: class Array is Array { method AT-POS($pos) { say "fetching $pos"; nextsame } }; my @a is Array = ^10; say @a[2]
camelia fetching 2
2
SmokeMachine interesting...
lizmat so, the codegen is *not* looking at what Array means when it is compiling
I would consider that a bug, actually 21:22
SmokeMachine m: BEGIN say Scalar.WHERE; class Scalar is Scalar { method what { say "Im not scalar" } }; BEGIN say Scalar.WHERE; Scalar.what; my $a; $a.VAR.what
camelia 62009056
No such method 'what' for invocant of type 'Any'. Did you mean 'flat'?
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

140267424113536
Im not scalar
SmokeMachine lizmat: it really seems to be a bug, but that should be a way to change the default, shouldn't it? 21:24
lizmat I would say so, yes, at least lexically
SmokeMachine lizmat: I was thinking on something like existing a method on the meta class that returns the default, like: sub default-class-for(\type, Positional) { Array } 21:26
lizmat that feels like a lot of action-at-a-distance to me 21:27
class Array is Array { } would at least only be active in the scope where the "subclass" exists
SmokeMachine lizmat: that way I could implement a meta class that would use different defaults than ClassHOW
lizmat sure... :-) 21:28
SmokeMachine that way it would affect only the types created by that meta class... but if you are using that new keyword for using that meta class, you want the new default 21:29
lizmat: why would be that action-at-a-distance?
isn't the meta class responsible to define everything about the new type?
lizmat if you're creating a new meta-class, that's ok 21:30
I was referring to adding that default-class-for( to the current meta-class
SmokeMachine lizmat: yes, that's my intention
tony-o m: say Version.new("1.2.1") cmp Version.new("1.2.1γ")
camelia More
tellable6 2020-08-17T22:48:26Z #raku <melezhik> tony-o - here the list of aws related sparrow plugins, including the ones to work with lambdas - rakudist.raku.org/hub/search?q=aws 21:31
2020-08-17T22:52:39Z #raku <melezhik> tony-o some of aws plugins might now work as they were created for old version of Sparrow written in Perl, but these ones (lambda related) should work - rakudist.raku.org/hub/search?q=function
2020-08-17T23:05:28Z #raku <melezhik> tony-o - might NOT work
lizmat and *that* would affect classes outside of the lexical scope where you wet a different default class, would it not ?
SmokeMachine lizmat: but would be a way of new meta classes use a method to define the defaults and ClassHOW do not implement that?
lizmat I'm not sure I can parse that line in the way you meant 21:32
SmokeMachine sorry, my english is terrible
lizmat no pb, please try to explain again :-) 21:33
SmokeMachine I mean, if ClassHOW has a `default-class-for`, every type created by that would use that defaults, right?
lizmat yes 21:35
SmokeMachine when creating the type, when find an attribute with @, for example, it would run `type.^default-class-for(Positional)` it would return Array and that type would have a new Array attribute
the only way of changing the defaults would be creating a new meta class. 21:36
lizmat ah, so you mean that would not be settable ?
I got the impression from you that it would be settable
SmokeMachine yes, read only
no...
lizmat sure, that could work :-) 21:37
SmokeMachine do you think people would accept something like that?
Geth doc/list-join: cb606ae8f3 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/List.pod6
Rework List.join examples and description

  - Remove duplicate note about the optional separator for the method form
  - It's the subroutine form that is slurpy and flattening
  - Group related examples
  - Correct a typo
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3570:
Rework List.join examples and description
lizmat SmokeMachine: I would give it a good chance :-) 21:38
guifa` just got a drawing tablet at $day-job
Time to make some fancy »ö«
SmokeMachine lizmat: so, I think I'll create a new problem solving issue... 21:39
lizmat ++SmokeMachine
Geth doc: codesections++ created pull request #3571:
Overhaul the list-missing-methods.p6 script		 21:40
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tony-o m: say say Version.new("γ") cmp Version.new("0"); say "γ" cmp "0"; 22:11
camelia Less
True
More
tony-o m: say Version.new("γ") cmp Version.new("0"); say "γ" cmp "0";
camelia Less
More
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SmokeMachine lizmat: github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/220 23:46
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