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š¦ Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). This channel is logged for the purpose of keeping a history about its development | evalbot usage: 'm: say 3;' or /msg camelia m: ... | Log inspection is still being worked out Set by lizmat on 12 August 2021. |
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| SmokeMachine_ | m: say Match ~~ Associative # should Match do Associative? | 00:17 | |
| camelia | False | ||
| SmokeMachine_ | I think that would make senseā¦ | ||
| moon-child | more broadly, should the class/role be in roast? There was a bug filed recently, native types were not doing some numeric roles | 00:19 | |
| *class/role _hierarchy_ be in roast | |||
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| moon-child | I think people depend on many aspects of the hierarchy which may not currently be tested | 00:20 | |
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| moon-child | m: say Associative.of; say Match.of | 00:20 | |
| camelia | (Mu) No such method 'of' for invocant of type 'Match' in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| moon-child | or, rather | 00:21 | |
| m: say Associative.can('of'); say Match.can('of') | |||
| camelia | (of) () |
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| SmokeMachine_ | m: say ābla bleā ~~ /<ws>/ | 00:29 | |
| camelia | ļ½¢ļ½£ ws => ļ½¢ļ½£ |
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| SmokeMachine_ | m: say (ābla bleā ~~ /<ws>/)<ws> | ||
| camelia | ļ½¢ļ½£ | ||
| SmokeMachine_ | m: say (ābla bleā ~~ /<ws>/).keys | ||
| camelia | (ws) | ||
| SmokeMachine_ | It even has the .keys methodsā¦ | 00:30 | |
| m: say (ābla bleā ~~ /<ws>/).values | |||
| camelia | (ļ½¢ļ½£) | ||
| SmokeMachine_ | m: say (ābla bleā ~~ /<ws>/).kv | 00:31 | |
| camelia | (ws ļ½¢ļ½£) | ||
| SmokeMachine_ | m: Match.^mro | ||
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| SmokeMachine_ | m: say Match.^mro | ||
| camelia | ((Match) (Capture) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)) | ||
| SmokeMachine_ | m: say ā{ .^name } -> { ? .^can: ākvā } for Match.^mro | 00:33 | |
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Unable to parse expression in curly double quotes; couldn't find final 'ā' (corresponding starter was at line 1) at <tmp>:1 ------> 3me } -> { ? .^can: ākvā } for Match.^mro7ā5<EOL> ā¦ |
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| SmokeMachine_ | m: say ā{ .^name } -> { ? .^can: ākvā }āfor Match.^mro | 00:34 | |
| camelia | Match -> True Capture -> True Cool -> True Any -> True Mu -> False |
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| SmokeMachine_ | m: say ā{ .^name } -> { ? .^find_method: ākvā, :local } for Match.^mro | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Unable to parse expression in curly double quotes; couldn't find final 'ā' (corresponding starter was at line 1) at <tmp>:1 ------> 3nd_method: ākvā, :local } for Match.^mro7ā5<EOL> ā¦ |
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| SmokeMachine_ | m: say ā{ .^name } -> { ? .^find_method: ākvā, :local }ā for Match.^mro | 00:35 | |
| camelia | Match -> True Capture -> True Cool -> True Any -> True Mu -> False |
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| SmokeMachine_ | m: say ā{ .^name } -> { ? .^find_method: ākeysā, :local }ā for Match.^mro | ||
| camelia | Match -> True Capture -> True Cool -> True Any -> True Mu -> False |
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| gfldex | lolibloggedalittle: gfldex.wordpress.com/2021/08/13/inequality/ | 08:40 | |
| Altreus | Quite in contrast to ==, eqv does a type check # this is surprising | 09:47 | |
| eqv surely means equivalent | 09:48 | ||
| Shouldn't equivalence try harder to be true than equality? | |||
| saying that Int(1) is not equivalent to Rat(1) breaks English | 09:49 | ||
| lizmat | from the doc: "This could be called an equivalence operator, and it will return True if the two arguments are structurally the same, i.e. from the same type and (recursively) contain equivalent values." | 09:56 | |
| docs.raku.org/routine/eqv | |||
| it specifically shows: say 1 eqv 1.0; # OUTPUT: Ā«Falseā¤Ā» | 09:57 | ||
| Altreus | Yeah I think I'm questioning the 20 years of design instead of saying something constructive again | 09:58 | |
| lizmat | well... maybe there *is* a point to be made | 09:59 | |
| fwiw, we now got more user experiences :-) | |||
| I'm just saying that changing anything in this area, would need a language version bump | |||
| Altreus | I'm a big fan of the thing doing what I think the word means | ||
| lizmat | m: dd 1 == 1.0 | 10:00 | |
| camelia | Bool::True | ||
| lizmat | now, whether you would call those equivalent... | ||
| Altreus | I was rude about PHP having === but now I realise that was just me being rude about everything PHP did | 10:01 | |
| I actually quite like it, in principle | |||
| Does raku keep P5's philosophy of == for numeric equality and eq for string equality? | 10:02 | ||
| lizmat | yes | ||
| == numifies, eq stringifies | |||
| Altreus | Thought so - when you remember that, eqv makes | ||
| lizmat | m: say "42" == "42.0" | ||
| camelia | True | ||
| Altreus | oops, makes more sense to do what it does | ||
| cos what else are you gonna do? mimic PHP's or JS's stack of rules for how to apply ==? | 10:03 | ||
| The whole point of == and eq is to tell Raku how to treat it; if you don't tell it how to do the comparison it also has to compare type | |||
| gfldex: you spawned discussion :D | 10:04 | ||
| I note that Int and Rat are both Real and therefore siblings | 10:05 | ||
| cousins actually | 10:06 | ||
| gfldex | I believe haveing a meta-op variant for ā and friends would actually solve the problem. | 10:07 | |
| m: say 1/1 eqv 2/2; | 10:10 | ||
| camelia | True | ||
| gfldex | m: say 1 eqv 2/2; | ||
| camelia | False | ||
| gfldex | infix:<eqv> does the right thing. Sadly, the name doesn't fit to what it does. | 10:11 | |
| Altreus | ā[==] like? | 10:17 | |
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| lizmat | fwiw, I think that is mixing set semantics with something else | 10:22 | |
| set semantics are not about comparisons, in my view | 10:23 | ||
| they are about applying some hashing function to values to see whether they are the same | |||
| currently, that's .WHICH | |||
| so, from the example, it should probably be something like ā[Int] | 10:24 | ||
| you could also see the .WHICH as a coercion to an ObjAt object | |||
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| Xliff | \o | 10:26 | |
| m: proto sub a (|c) { c<a>.gist.say; {*} }; multi sub a (:$i!) { $i.gist.say }; a(:a = 1, :i = <a b c>); | 10:27 | ||
| camelia | Cannot modify an immutable Pair (i => True) in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| Xliff | m: proto sub a (|c) { c<a>.gist.say; {*} }; multi sub a (:$i!) { $i.gist.say }; a(a = 1, i = <a b c>); | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead. Did you make a mistake in Pod syntax? at <tmp>:1 ------> 3ulti sub a (:$i!) { $i.gist.say }; a(a =7ā5 1, i = <a b c>); |
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| Xliff | m: proto sub a (|c) { c<a>.gist.say; {*} }; multi sub a (:$i!) { $i.gist.say }; a(a => 1, i => <a b c>); | ||
| camelia | 1 Cannot resolve caller a(:i(List), :a(Int)); none of these signatures match: (:$i!) in sub a at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| Xliff | m: proto sub a (|c) { c<a>.gist.say; {*} }; multi sub a (:$i!, *%c) { $i.gist.say }; a(a => 1, i => <a b c>); | 10:28 | |
| camelia | 1 (a b c) |
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| Xliff | m: proto sub a (|c) { c<a>.gist.say; {*} }; multi sub a (:$i!, :$a) { $i.gist.say }; a(a => 1, i => <a b c>); | ||
| camelia | 1 (a b c) |
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| Altreus | lizmat: hadn't considered that perspective | 10:39 | |
| Rather than are these equivalent according to this operation, it's are these equivalent after this conversion? | |||
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| Altreus | mind you, isn't that just ā map? | 10:40 | |
| lizmat | well, in practice they are eq after conversion | ||
| Altreus: yes, that would effectively be it :-) | |||
| m: dd 1 (elem) (1.0,)>>.Int | 10:41 | ||
| camelia | Bool::True | ||
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| Altreus | I'm content to consider that the philosophy of set stuff | 10:52 | |
| the set should contain things of the type you're comparing it to | 10:53 | ||
| lizmat | m: my %s is Set[Int] = 1, 1.0 | 10:55 | |
| camelia | Type check failed in binding; expected Int but got Rat (1.0) in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| lizmat | m: my %s is Set[Int()] = 1, 1.0 # sadly, that doesn't work, yet anyway | ||
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| lizmat | m: my %s is Set[Int()] = 1, 1.0; dd %s | ||
| camelia | Set[Int(Any)].new(1.0,1) | ||
| gfldex | We will never be able to coerce to Numeric. | 11:01 | |
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| Altreus | we've always been at war with eqv | 11:06 | |
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| leont | Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia | 11:40 | |
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| thundergnat | Something I have pondered before, and with the Set coercion discussion, has again pushed to the forefront: Should .narrow coerce *Str to numeric? | 12:25 | |
| m: my @l = < 3 3.0 3.1 3e0 3.1e0 >; say @l.map: *.narrow.^name; dd @l>>.narrow.Set# Since .narrow is a numeric operator, I would expect ("Int", "Int", "Rat", "Int", "Num") | |||
| camelia | (IntStr Int RatStr Int NumStr) Set.new(NumStr.new(3.1e0, "3.1e0"),IntStr.new(3, "3"),RatStr.new(3.1, "3.1"),3) |
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| thundergnat | Conversely, if it doesn't remove stringy characteristics from a *Str, why isn't there a Str candidate that just passes through the Str unchanged? | 12:27 | |
| m: my @l = < 3 3.0 3.1 3e0 3.1e0 a >; say @l.map: *.narrow.^name; | |||
| camelia | No such method 'narrow' for invocant of type 'Str' in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| thundergnat | I don't really expect answers to these questions, just something I've pondered. | 12:28 | |
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| thundergnat | Another point to ponder. What is narrower? A Rat or a Num? The docs for .narrow say "Returns the number converted to the narrowest type that can hold it without loss of precision." | 12:43 | |
| I would argue that a Rat is better at not losing precision, at least up to the Rat/Num threshold. | |||
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| thundergnat | m: say 3.1.narrow.^name; say 3.1e0.narrow.^name; # Seems like they are considered "equal" in the precision heirarchy | 12:45 | |
| camelia | Rat Num |
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| lizmat | weekly: www.theregister.com/2021/08/13/per...ignations/ | ||
| notable6 | lizmat, Noted! (weekly) | ||
| thundergnat | Again, not expecting answers, just points to ponder. | 12:46 | |
| [Coke] | I don't quite understand the question based on the example. If you've got a Num, you can't narrow to the more precise Rat, can you? | 12:50 | |
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| thundergnat | [Coke] Probably not. Raku only preserves precision to the default stringify display precision so we cant rely on conversions being exact. | 12:57 | |
| m: my $n = 3.73389e0; say join ' ', $n, $n.^name, $n.Rat, $n.Rat.^name, $n.Rat.base(10,15); | |||
| camelia | 3.73389 Num 3.73389 Rat 3.733890214797136 | ||
| thundergnat | You might expect 3.73389e0.Rat to be equal to 3.73389, but it isn't behind the scenes ^^^^ | 12:59 | |
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| [Coke] | I assume .base is sending that through Num first because of your request for a specific number of digits. | 13:40 | |
| (it DTRT if you leave off the 15) | |||
| me: gets handwavy. my coffee: spills all over my work area. | 13:42 | ||
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| vrurg | The more I observe the discussions about Perl's Cor, the more I it feels great that Perl6 syntax hasn't been kept backward compatible... | 14:06 | |
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| thundergnat | [Coke] Naw, it's the whole "What Every Programmer Should Know About Floating-Point Numbers" showing up. Raku does a really good job of hiding that, so it's especially jarring when it _does_ show up. | 16:13 | |
| m: say 3.73389e0.Rat.nude; say 3.73389.nude; | 16:14 | ||
| camelia | (3129 838) (373389 100000) |
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| thundergnat | m: say 3.73389e0.Rat.base(10,15); say 3.73389.base(10,15); | 16:15 | |
| camelia | 3.733890214797136 3.733890000000000 |
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| lizmat | m: 42 666 | 16:49 | |
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Two terms in a row at <tmp>:1 ------> 03427ā5 666 expecting any of: infix infix stopper statement end statement modifier statement modifā¦ |
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| melezhik | . | 17:55 | |
| weekly: dev.to/melezhik/bird-raku-dsl-for-...sting-1hph | |||
| notable6 | melezhik, Noted! (weekly) | ||
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| lizmat | m: for } a | 18:04 | |
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Unexpected closing bracket at <tmp>:1 ------> 3for 7ā5} a |
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| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "5foobar" | 18:09 | |
| camelia | 5foobar | ||
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| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "5foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz" | 18:09 | |
| camelia | 5foobar7barbaz | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "5foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ 3green" | 18:10 | |
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Confused at <tmp>:1 ------> 3x03" ~ "5foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ 37ā5green" |
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| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "5foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | 5foobar7barbaz3green | ||
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| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "1foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | 18:14 | |
| camelia | 1foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "2foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | 2foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "3foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | 3foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "4foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | 4foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "5foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | 5foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "6foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | 18:15 | |
| camelia | 6foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "7foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | 18:17 | |
| camelia | 7foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "8foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | 8foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "9foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | 9foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "afoobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | afoobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| lizmat | m: say "\x03" ~ "0foobar\x03" ~ "7barbaz\x03" ~ "3green" | ||
| camelia | 0foobar7barbaz3green | ||
| moon-child | m: say "\x[03]11,4dual" | 18:19 | |
| camelia | 11,4dual | ||
| moon-child | m: say "\x[02]bold\x[1d]italic\x[1f]underline" | 18:20 | |
| camelia | bolditalicunderline | ||
| lizmat | oops, I thought I was doing this privately with Camelia :-( | 18:21 | |
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| lizmat | wonder if anybody has a module to turn that into <span> s | 18:25 | |
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| lizmat | m: for } a | 18:41 | |
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Unexpected closing bracket at <tmp>:1 ------> 3for 7ā5} a |
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| Shaeto | class foo is rw { ... } = has ?? is rw for all class attributes ? | 19:50 | |
| moon-child | m: class F is rw { has $.x }; F.new.x = 5 | 19:51 | |
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| moon-child | seems so | ||
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| Shaeto | thank you, found this in wiki :) | 19:52 | |
| w/o any exlanation | 19:53 | ||
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| Geth | Raku-Steering-Council/RSC_code: 96828ac873 | (Daniel Sockwell)++ | papers/Raku_Steering_Council_Code.md Address minor nits |
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