🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). This channel is logged for the purpose of keeping a history about its development | evalbot usage: 'm: say 3;' or /msg camelia m: ... | Log inspection is getting closer to beta. If you're a beginner, you can also check out the #raku-beginner channel!
Set by lizmat on 25 August 2021.
00:00 reportable6 left 00:11 TempIRCLogger left, TempIRCLogger joined 00:18 shareable6 joined, quotable6 joined, greppable6 joined 00:19 notable6 joined, linkable6 joined 00:20 benchable6 joined
drakonis gist.github.com/alabamenhu/2fec7a8...4a2ae2f04d ah this is cool 01:17
a raku proposal for binary grammars
01:20 releasable6 joined 01:22 frost left 01:23 qorg11 left, qorg11 joined 01:40 Xliff left 02:20 committable6 joined 02:43 floppy_disk joined 03:18 floppy_disk left 03:42 ocomport joined 04:01 reportable6 joined 04:29 phogg left 04:33 frost joined 04:42 phogg joined 05:32 K4rMa joined, K4rMa left 05:38 razetime joined 06:00 reportable6 left 06:44 razetime left 06:57 epony left 07:08 Sgeo left 08:02 abraxxa joined 08:08 abraxxa left 08:09 abraxxa joined 08:14 epony joined 08:48 squashable6 left, squashable6 joined 09:02 dakkar joined 09:20 ecocode__ left 09:22 ecocode__ joined 10:01 reportable6 joined 11:01 reportable6 left, coverable6 left, bloatable6 left, nativecallable6 left, bisectable6 left, statisfiable6 left, releasable6 left, tellable6 left, linkable6 left, unicodable6 left, squashable6 left, evalable6 left, quotable6 left, notable6 left, benchable6 left, shareable6 left, sourceable6 left, greppable6 left, committable6 left 11:02 reportable6 joined, bloatable6 joined 11:03 greppable6 joined 11:04 quotable6 joined, benchable6 joined, bisectable6 joined 11:12 razetime joined 11:33 razetime left, razetime joined 11:56 razetime left 12:00 reportable6 left, reportable6 joined 12:02 squashable6 joined 12:03 releasable6 joined, linkable6 joined 12:04 nativecallable6 joined 12:15 Geth left, Geth joined 12:19 Geth left 12:20 Geth joined 12:30 wingfold joined 12:39 stdInOut joined
stdInOut hello, I just installed rakudo via tarball and its .sh script, and it shows me that I can start using it via 'raku.exe' while I am on linux ??! 12:40
or perhaps "raqu"; "rather quiet" 12:48
MasterDuke do you prefer building yourself? you didn't want to use your distro's package? 12:50
stdInOut MasterDuke, honestly, I didnt scroll down to see that there was a distro package. but then I suppose they are older. 12:51
MasterDuke some are. but for most of those El_Che provides binaries
stdInOut but why '.exe' on linux? is it correct? :)
MasterDuke yeah, something's funny there. what showed that? 12:52
stdInOut when I ran the install script, the output showed that I could run that to start using raku
I didn't run it yet, though 12:53
MasterDuke fyi, nxadm.github.io/rakudo-pkg has the up-to-date distro packages i mentioned before
which tarball did you download?
stdInOut ah great, thank you, are they newer than the distro ones here; rakudo.org/downloads ?# 12:54
I downloaded rakudo-moar-2022.02-01-linux-x86_64-gcc.tar.gz
MasterDuke yeah. the ones listed there are the "official" distro packages, El_Che builds newer ones 12:55
patrickb stdInOut: Thanks for informing us! That's a mistake. Fix is on the way. 12:59
stdInOut ah, glad to have been of help, patrickb :) 13:00
MasterDuke, I will proceed with El_Che's downloads, thank you very much :)
MasterDuke np 13:01
patrickb stdInOut: There are quite a number of different deployment methods made available by different people. Most are kept up to date, amongst them are ElChes rakudo-pkg repositories and the precompiled tarballs.
13:02 notable6 joined 13:03 statisfiable6 joined 13:04 evalable6 joined
El_Che stdInOut: feel free to ping me if needed 13:04
patrickb MasterDuke: rakudo.org/downloads tries to provide an overview of the different options to deploy a rakudo. Amongst others the official distro packages as well as rakudo-pkg are mentioned and linked to. 13:05
stdInOut El_Che, sure, I will, thank you
patrickb MasterDuke: I think stdInOut tried the tarballs that can be downloaded on rakudo.org directly. Those are kept up to date, just as rakudo-pkg.
stdInOut patrickb, yes, I tried those
patrickb El_Che: Btw. I value your work on rakudo-pkg a lot. Thank you! 13:06
El_Che thx :)
I just need to keep an eye on new distro release so I can support them :)
before you know it, alpine has a major release, then fedora, then ... :) 13:07
patrickb stdInOut: The tarball you downloaded first was the latest version and was up to date. Feel free to use ElChes disto packages or the tarballs, whatever suits your need better.
13:09 razetime joined
El_Che yes, tarballs work fine. They are essentially the same compile steps as rakudo-pkg 13:10
tar balls have the big advantage you can install it in your hone in a machine without root 13:11
pkgs have the advantage that they use repos so you can update easily with the rest of the system
patrickb El_Che: Out of curiosity, are rakudo-pkg executables compiled with the relocatability flag set? 13:12
El_Che yes 13:13
in the past only the tarballs, but for some times all packages
patrickb Is there a necessity? Don't the packages always install into the same path? 13:14
El_Che not needed no
patrickb (It doesn't hurt, just curious)
El_Che just an if less, can be easily changed one way or the other
patrickb ok
El_Che github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/blob/m...ild.sh#L11 13:15
you can tar your /opt/rakudo-pkg yourself and use it on an other machine on another path :P 13:16
stdInOut patrickb, yes, I just typed 'raku' and was in. I will place raku folder in /opt now. 13:25
13:59 tejr left, tejr joined 14:02 stdInOut left 14:10 razetime left, razetime joined 14:12 Sgeo joined 14:18 razetime left 14:20 Sevalecan joined
[Coke] ugh, how long has it been since I tried to run parallels on this 2014 mac mini... 14:23
14:32 tejr left 14:33 tejr joined
patrickb \quit 14:33
japhb Is there anyone doing *current* Docker container builds? The ones I'm finding are old, but maybe I've lost track of the current ownership. 14:39
MasterDuke i thought i saw jjmerelo updating some recently? 14:41
japhb Oh, hmmm. It does look like the rakudo-star image has been updated in the last month, but the tags still show 2021 dates 14:46
hub.docker.com/_/rakudo-star
14:55 frost left 14:58 razetime joined 15:03 Xliff joined 15:04 unicodable6 joined, shareable6 joined 15:08 abraxxa left 15:22 razetime left 15:37 razetime joined 15:44 SqrtNegInf joined 15:52 tejr left, tejr joined 16:01 committable6 joined 16:03 sourceable6 joined
Geth doc: 0360de1d0d | (David Warring)++ | doc/Language/pod.pod6
make Replacement formatting codes literal

I think this is what's intended		 16:22
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/language/pod
16:26 MasterDuke left 16:33 MasterDuke joined
tonyo that binary grammar proposal is interesting but it seems like it's already doable 16:55
the maligned part, not as easily but just matching [multi]byte sequences 16:57
17:03 coverable6 joined
drakonis there's an implementation for it and it seems fairly workable 17:04
its currently on hold due to rakuast, after that lands, it'll resume
17:23 razetime left 17:31 dakkar left
Geth doc: e349e63dca | Coke++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
remove some flowery prose
 17:33
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/language/glossary
18:00 reportable6 left
Geth ecosystem: e6875fa9d7 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | META.list
Freeze Linenoise while we're moving it to zef
 18:00
18:03 wingfold left
Nemokosch which repl helper module do you advise? what is the difference? 18:08
tonyo i use linenoise because it's smaller, easier to use with BSD. no real usability feedback for either though 18:44
Nemokosch I know that there is one that didn't work with backspace (or delete, I don't remember) 18:55
japhb tonyo: Have you tried Terminal::LineEditor? 19:02
19:03 linkable6 left 19:05 linkable6 joined
tonyo i haven't, actually just saw it was added to the repl message 19:44
Nemokosch where can I check the installed modules? 19:47
ugexe zef list --installed 19:48
Nemokosch Okay, so apparently I am using Terminal::LineEditor at the moment 19:53
thx
and yes, it doesn't support delete 19:54
[Coke] ugexe++ btw for all the zef work. 19:58
ugexe m: say $*REPO.repo-chain.map(*.?installed).grep(*.so).map(*.Slip).map(*.meta<provides>.keys.Slip).join(",") 20:00
camelia Zef::Repository::LocalCache,Zef::Service::Shell::Test,Zef::Identity,Zef::Service::P6CReporter,Zef::Service::Shell::wget,Zef::Utils::URI,Zef::Client,Zef::Fetch,Zef::Distribution::DependencySpecification,Zef::Utils::FileSystem,Zef::Service::Shell::Build…
ugexe or as a raku 1-liner 20:01
20:01 reportable6 joined
Nemokosch 😂 20:02
ugexe m: use Zef::CLI; @*ARGS = "install", "CSV::Parser" 20:03
camelia ===> Searching for: CSV::Parser
Failed to open file /home/camelia/.zef/store/MANIFEST.zef: Permission denied
in method slurp-manifest at /home/camelia/.raku/sources/84C3559D745406770E8D650CE8B07455F3789078 line 42
in method gather-dists at /…
ugexe thats no fun
Nemokosch 🤣 20:04
ugexe m: use Zef::CLI; @*ARGS = "install", "CSV::Parser", "--/cached"
camelia ===> Searching for: CSV::Parser, --/cached
Failed to open file /home/camelia/.zef/store/MANIFEST.zef: Permission denied
in method slurp-manifest at /home/camelia/.raku/sources/84C3559D745406770E8D650CE8B07455F3789078 line 42
in method gather…
Nemokosch I feel the "raku 1-liner" way gave more results than zef list --installed 20:06
built-in stuff?
ugexe zef list --installed shows the dist name only, not the module names in those dists
m: say $*REPO.repo-chain.map(*.?installed).grep(*.so).map(*.Slip).map(*.meta<name>).join(",")
camelia zef,CSV::Parser,CORE
ugexe oh hey it installed it afterall
Nemokosch XD 20:08
ugexe its a nice bonus of using main 20:09
raku -MZef::CLI -e '' install CSV::Parser
that works the same as bin/zef
japhb Nemokosch: I was thinking "How could it possibly not support delete?" and then I looked at the keyboard map and went "Ah crap, I forgot to map that key when I started supporting special keys". 20:12
Sigh, will fix.
Nemokosch Oh right, I found that ctrl+d can be used as a kind of delete 20:13
thank you anyway 20:14
japhb Happy to fix! In the future, do feel free to say something right off when you notice something like that. 20:15
Nemokosch now that we are at it... there is some button combination after which it stops taking input and eventually I found no other way than to kill the terminal as a whole 20:16
it revolves around alt and < > maybe? 20:18
one thing is sure: once I press alt+í (which is the bottom left character next to shift and y in my case), I'm stuck 20:20
20:21 sena_kun left
same for alt+. 20:22
maybe this is some terminal weirdness <:cameliathink:897316667653247057>
doesn't cause any trouble on xterm
japhb OK, the Delete is fixed in my local copy (I was right, it was just the missing entry in the default keymap, sigh)
20:23 sena_kun joined
japhb The default keymap starts here: github.com/japhb/Terminal-LineEdit...kumod#L175 20:24
Alt-< and Alt-> are history movement keys
(Start and end of history respectively)
I don't have keymaps for the alt keys you're talking about, let me see if I can recreate 20:26
Hmmm, alt-. doesn't do it for me. Which terminal and keyboard layout are you using? 20:27
Nemokosch seems like this is a GNOME terminal and the layout... well, I think the dot part is the same. I tried standard Hungarian and programmer Polish (which is very much like a US QWERTY) 20:29
alt+. is apparently some "let's iterate over the words from the terminal history" command
japhb That's ... not something I ever implemented 20:31
Is '>' the same as 'shift-.' for you?
Nemokosch The Polish layout is the same in this regard 20:35
I wonder what gets passed to poor raku repl in these cases
what can that alt+. be when it arrives
in xterm, it's some glitchy character and it just shows up
nothing special
apparently xterm is good for something, after all
japhb *snrk*
FWIW, I'm using Gnome Terminal as well
Nemokosch: ISTR I implemented a raw terminal keycode program for Terminal::Print ... 20:38
Yeah, here it is: github.com/ab5tract/Terminal-Print...d-input.p6
(Technically that's the version that tries to figure out what key can be decoded from an escape sequence; there's a raw-input.p6 as well, but then you have to be able to grok the raw sequences.) 20:39
Since it appears that this other problem may take some time to figure out, I've released 0.0.11 with just the Delete fix. It will take a few minutes to appear in the indexes. 20:44
OK, zef sees it now
20:45 Xliff left
Nemokosch first time I used zef upgrade... it was about time I suppose 20:56
oh yeah, nice, it works now 🙂
21:01 Xliff joined
japhb When I told a friend of mine that I'd forgotten to add Delete to the default keymap, they went "And you never noticed? Way to humblebrag!" and realized they thought I was claiming to have never needed to correct my inputs. NOT! 21:06
drakonis does raku have anything along the lines of data manipulation libraries yet? 21:20
21:26 Xliff left
japhb drakonis: Manipulating what particular kind of data? That's a pretty broad range of possibilities, and we have rather uneven coverage. 21:27
drakonis ah, matrices and vectors i'd say 21:28
not unlike the kinds of libraries you'd find in the usual languages for this sort of task 21:29
dataframes and such
japhb Have you searched on raku.land? raku.land/?q=linear and raku.land/?q=vector and raku.land/?q=matrix and raku.land/?q=matrices all gave results (overlapping of course) 21:44
Though of course those may not be what you're looking for.
e.g. if you're actually looking for a port of pytorch or so.
drakonis ah, i haven't yet. 21:48
also i meant numeric processing libraries 22:03
if they're not available, they can always be written.
El_Che japhb: take a small base image and add this github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg#os-repositories: voila, small image. Usable in docker was one of the first usecases of rakudo-pkg :) 22:12
japhb: I don't believe in prebuilt images with too much in it, so I prefer to add what I exactly meed 22:13
22:15 djerius left 22:20 djerius joined
japhb El_Che: Sure, I understand. I had just gotten feedback from someone frustrated that Docker images that were simultaneously *current* and *official* weren't obvious from any of the download spots they looked (including rakudo.org and Docker Hub), which gave an impression of poor Docker support. I figured the most likely case is that people *were* making Docker images, but we weren't advertising that well. 22:28
rakudo-star appears official but out of date, and others appeared either unofficial or out of date or both. 22:29
El_Che japhb: there is certainly a usecase for rakudo-star, but docker isn't one. It's pretty much the antithesis of the docker mindset (minimalistic) 22:30
japhb El_Che: Oh, no disagreement. I just meant that that's the only one on Docker Hub that shows with the official marker. 22:31
El_Che japhb: it would be pretty trivial to create rakudo-pkg images as the base images of each OS/Distro is used to build the package in the same place. I just don't know if there is a public for it
I have toyed with the idea certainly
japhb It sounds like you've got at least one "public" request for it. :-) 22:32
El_Che hehe
docker hub though is a dead end 22:33
with the limits they added
japhb And I personally have wanted base images of "alpine + rakudo + zef" and "ubuntu + rakudo + zef" in order to simplify some of my stuff -- and make it easier to toss a script to my friends who don't necessarily have rakudo on all their machines.
Sorry, haven't been keeping up with that news. What limits?
El_Che yeah, I am pretty please with the alpine repos that make that possible. I was only able to create rakudo-pkg repos when I moved to cloudsmith 22:34
docs.docker.com/docker-hub/download-rate-limit/
For anonymous users, the rate limit is set to 100 pulls per 6 hours per IP address.
For authenticated users, it is 200 pulls per 6 hour period. There are no limits for users with a paid Docker subscription.
add it to a CI system and you'll be fast out of luck 22:35
github has now docker repos and maybe cloudsmith. The problem is that not all the users know how to get images not on docker hub 22:36
japhb There was some verbiage in there about open source projects having an exemption. I'd sorta assumed we'd need to do that like we do with e.g. GitHub.
nod
El_Che (before I do that, I need to find the time to finish the arm64 images :/ ) 22:41
pkgs I mean
japhb For which OS? 22:42
El_Che the same as rakudo-pkg supports 22:43
except centos 7 that does not have a arm64 upstream image (they started supporting it at 8) 22:44
so a 15-20 distribution+release matrix depending on what's supported at the moment 22:45
japhb Ah 23:12
23:20 linkable6 left, linkable6 joined

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!