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ToddAndMargo12 Anyone taking Timo's place on newie duty? 01:32
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dominix hi everyone 01:39
tellable6 2019-09-28T14:05:51Z #perl6 <uzl[m]> dominix mobile.twitter.com/zoffix/status/1...3627155456 mobile.twitter.com/zoffix/status/1...0624221184
2019-09-28T14:08:03Z #perl6 <uzl[m]> dominix It seems Zoffix is up to something entirely different. I guess the best we can do is wish Zoffix all the best in this new life endeavor. Although I hope he reconsiders. 😃�
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dominix I am observing a weird thing, and don't know if its a feature or a bug 02:07
if I write say (5,7,-3,2).minmax
I got -3..7
but what is this result ?
p: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.elems 02:08
m: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.elems
camelia 11
vrurg dominix: docs.perl6.wakelift.de/routine/minmax
dominix so it is evaluated as -3 ... 7 ? right ?
I would have see it as a list of two elements, a min and a max. 02:09
vrurg dominix: the doc clearly states 'returns a range'.
m: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.minmax 02:10
camelia (-3 7)
vrurg ^ this is how you get two elems.
dominix ho man ! what a tricky
I would have made this two different functions, like minmaxrange and minmax (pair) 02:11
vrurg Range and Supply are special cases. minmax on Range is different. 02:12
dominix m: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.minmax.elems
camelia 2
dominix ho god !
vrurg m: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.bounds 02:13
camelia (-3 7)
vrurg ^ That'd be more correct use.
dominix thanks, I got it now, but is was a WTF sequence for me to get to it. 02:16
vrurg greppable6: minmax 02:17
greppable6 vrurg, 140 lines, 11 modules: gist.github.com/0d58f0013202a19a5d...cbdd7a3369
AlexDaniel uzl[m]: well, another thing we can do is make sure we don't cause such pain to devs in the future 02:52
uzl[m]: by pain I mean, like, in the bum 02:53
because Zoffix was doing a lot of great work but then they'd bump into issues that were a bit out of their control 02:54
e.g. the naming thing
at the time, we didn't have any framework on working on such issues
so Zoffix did their absolute best to improve things, which got a lot of backlash because some individuals thought that Zoffix is trying to impose their solution/view on others without consensus 02:55
I mean, “consensus” because there was nothing to define what it is 02:56
Geth problem-solving: 7af1dfc3f9 | (Fernando Correa de Oliveira)++ (committed by Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev) | README.md
Add my name to the list
 03:00
problem-solving: 5e9d288a3b | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | README.md
Merge pull request #84 from perl6/merge-mishap

Add FCO to the list
problem-solving/master: 4 commits pushed by (Vadim Belman)++, (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ 03:01
AlexDaniel Congrats vrurg, SmokeMachine! 🎉🎉🎉 03:08
vrurg AlexDaniel: thanks!
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elcaro dominix_: I think the confusion is that - on a list of numbers, .minmax returns a Range... and on a Range, .minmax returns a list of (2) numbers 04:33
ideally .minmax should be consitent... but if that was the case, Range.minmax would just return itself... which isn't very useful. maybe Range.minmax should be renamed to indicate it is a different method 04:35
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AlexDaniel elcaro: yeah 05:36
that's really weird, actually 05:37
I don't think it was supposed to be this way
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SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: :) thanks! 07:25
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Wahnberger jnthn: Sorry github.com/jnthn/p6-io-socket-asyn.../issues/47 :/ 12:34
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Wahnberger can I do something to provide more usefull Info to you ( i am not the best coder, so I dunno how to dig into that isse deeply) 12:35
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SmokeMachine I saw that the grant proposal time has come, and I'd like to know if some one think that would good to have a grant proposal to let me spend more hours developing Red... Or if doing it on my spare time is good enough (I still don’t know if I can do it… but I’d like to know what youall think about this possibility...) 13:41
[Coke] wonders what it is about email from ToddAndMargo12 to perl6-users that causes his gmail phone client to get confused about what is read/unread in that thread so he has to restart. 13:43
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Wahnberger yo 14:33
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[Coke] yo 14:35
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lucasb yay 14:41
vrurg SmokeMachine: I think you should apply. Red is assuredly one of the gems in Raku ecosystem. 15:10
SmokeMachine vrurg: thanks! :) 15:16
sena_kun SmokeMachine, you certainly should! I think that the whole community will only win if Red will be more polished and "production-ready" - less bugs, more documentation and possibly speed would be awesome. Just make sure to write it out properly: particular acceptance criteria and so on. 15:24
SmokeMachine sena_kun: thanks! :)
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sena_kun it is also a cool project to show off raku in general, but I think it has its own papercuts. :/ e.g. IIRC I wasn't able to create a model named User with sqlite when I tried it out. 15:30
`'user' is an invalid table name for driver Red::Driver::SQLite` is the error 15:31
SmokeMachine sena_kun: the database do not accept it… you can do `model User is table<another_name> {…}` 15:36
sena_kun SmokeMachine, while arguably more obscure than necessary, I'd expect it to automatically do another name for me, maybe _user or something. Maybe that's just me, but I found `class User`(`model User`) natural. 15:38
and when it says to me "You can't do that" I know why I can't, but it feels like not the best experience for the end user. 15:39
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SmokeMachine sena_kun: it makes sense... 15:44
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SmokeMachine sena_kun: But what would be worst? not being able to create the table, finding out that you could use `is table<>` for that and making it work, or creating the table an not finding it because the name of the table is different of what you would expect? 15:46
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tellable6 SmokeMachine, I'll pass your message to sena_kun 15:46
SmokeMachine sena_kun: I think the error message should suggest using `is table<>` what do you think about it? 15:47
tellable6 SmokeMachine, I'll pass your message to sena_kun
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sena_kun SmokeMachine, if you insist on not doing magic, an error message would improve the situation, I think 15:50
tellable6 2019-11-04T15:47:22Z #raku <SmokeMachine> sena_kun: I think the error message should suggest using `is table<>` what do you think about it?
hey sena_kun, you have a message: gist.github.com/504cc5826e0700dd93...54ef988657
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Kaiepi releasable6, status 16:20
releasable6 Kaiepi, Next release will happen when it's ready. There are no known blockers. 248 out of 454 commits logged (⚠ 9 warnings)
Kaiepi, Details: gist.github.com/d0ce22eb8bb5b4c3c0...058dc5bea0
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El_Che SmokeMachine: in my view we need (at least) 1 good and feature complete webapp/rest app framework (with oauth/openid-connect support) and 1 db interface. With these 2 a lot of simple projects could be written in raku. 17:14
Wahnberger :) 17:16
El_Che SmokeMachine: not talking about ORM, per se. But something likethat lets you easily do CRUD, even close to SQL. 17:17
SmokeMachine El_Che: so you think that shouldn’t be Red? 17:18
El_Che SmokeMachine: at the moment is RED the one that probably can get there the fastest
SmokeMachine: not, I think that Red had the biggest chance to become the DBI/DBM alternative 17:19
SmokeMachine :)
El_Che (my point is that easy-db-support-for-trivial-thing is more important that the high-end orm stuff
in my view, of course)
I thinking small webapps/rest services where the db part can be rather trivial crud 17:20
SmokeMachine: so, if you have the time, I think most people would be thrilled by your possible grant 17:23
SmokeMachine El_Che: I think makes sense (about `easy-db-support-for-trivial-thing is more important that the high-end orm stuff`)
El_Che So, if you keep that in mind, combined with Cro, it's something very significant for the ecosystem 17:25
Wahnberger El_Che: confirmed 17:28
the very most users are developing small stuff..and this has to done very quickly i guess 17:29
El_Che I ma doing small rest apis in Go nowadays, but more often than not they don't need the speed, so a few projects could be done in Cro+Red. I wrote a small Cro app in the pre-Red Days, but the db part wasn't great 17:31
so I put it on hold
Wahnberger i am still using perl on *nix boxes but I am working on to move all that (old crappy) stuff to perl6...atm a working cro setup on windows would be great :) 17:32
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El_Che Wahnberger: use docker to develop? Less painfull than native windows 17:33
Wahnberger: there is docker (with a smallish hyperv vm transparantly hidden) and the WSL
SmokeMachine El_Che: I’ve already started plaing with that: github.com/FCO/Cro-HTTP-Session-Red
El_Che Wahnberger: I wouldn't bother with native Windows except if you plan to deploy on that OS 17:34
SmokeMachine: that is great! Session management is a PITA and nowadays you always deploy on several containers
Wahnberger yes, it sould run on that windows box..its all small stuff, but very important for my (small) company 17:35
and only inhouse
El_Che (new Cro is out!) 17:37
Wahnberger: if I look at our environment, Linux deployment is very automated (repos, CI, orchastration, monitoring, load balancing, etc etc). The Windows part is pretty... artesanal 17:38
Wahnberger cro is out?
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El_Che Wahnberger: twitter.com/croservices/status/119...33249?s=20 17:43
Wahnberger ah..1. Nov on Github i see 17:44
mhm..try it tomorrot to see whether the ssl issue is gone :( 17:45
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Wahnberger has 17:45
El_Che Wahnberger: ssl issue? 17:46
Wahnberger uhm..no..thats another lib
yep.. its not Cro itself: github.com/jnthn/p6-io-socket-asyn.../issues/47
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El_Che Wahnberger: and you windows has the CA used for www.perl6.org? 17:48
Wahnberger: I have seen several places where windows admin strip CA roots out of ignorance
Wahnberger i have tried it with several hosts - other libs, like WWW are working well 17:49
El_Che Windows is a tricky OS for a small footprint (now they have "core" it should be easier)
Cloudflaree it seems 17:50
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El_Che have a look in mmc, certificates snap-in, computer 17:51
(if it's a regular desktop, the ca will be there)
Wahnberger 2 das ago the lib failed to install while testing..this has already been fixed by johnathan..but at runtime the code fails as shown in the post
El_Che (I am referring to servers, where admins something remove CAs except the one from the company)
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El_Che Wahnberger: ah, jnthn is aware. Cool. 17:52
Wahnberger El_Che: I have tested all that stuff on an windows7 box too
yes he is..i have to wait now :) I would do some tests if its helpfu 17:53
i could do the job with other libs or even curl on cli but I want to use Cro cus its damn nice to work with 17:55
[Coke] regarding Red - is there a list of what DBs it works with?
Altai-man_ sqlite and postgres 17:56
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Kaiepi jnthn, IO::Socket::Async::SSL's taking a very long time to run tests for someone on linux mint hastebin.com/teyeyodoxu.makefile 18:37
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discord6 <tmtvl> m: say (1, 2) == (2, 1); 18:42
evalable6 True
discord6 <tmtvl> Hm...
Altai-man_ m: say (1, 2) eqv (2, 1) 18:44
camelia False
Altai-man_ m: say (1, 2) eqv (1, 2)
camelia True
Altai-man_ tmtvl: eqv is for more tight structural equivalence here 18:45
discord6 <tmtvl> Yeah, switching between languages on Monday evening is a recipe for disaster. 18:46
Kaiepi oh wait i thought the version they were using was 2019.03, not 2018.03 lmao
nvm then
tony-o [Coke]: what DB are you looking for?
[Coke] I have an interest in SQL Server and mongo. (I get that mongo would be a weird fit) 18:57
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cfa hmm 19:31
tellable6 2019-11-04T19:24:15Z #raku-dev <jmerelo> cfa it's done by hand for the time being. Automatic deployment is yet to come...
cfa it looks like LibraryCheck's tests are failing against rakudo HEAD
namely, the bogus library checks
anyone able to reproduce that? i've encountered on openbsd and macos
jmerelo: thanks, noted 19:32
jmerelo: i wasn't aware of process changes (i thought the existing pipeline had been transferred to the new server)
mensvaga Where can I read an example of a class that has another class as an attribute? 19:33
MasterDuke Kaiepi: i'd recommend they try El_Che++'s repos to get a newer rakudo before any further debugging
mensvaga class Equipment { has PhysicalConnections Array $physical_connections}
or something
Ah. How do I specify that a class has as an attribute an array of other classes? 19:34
MasterDuke has OtherClass @otherclasses 19:35
mensvaga thanks
tony-o [Coke]: i can make xoos work with SQL server fairly quickly
hardest part would be making a sql server to test against 19:36
cfa ( github.com/jonathanstowe/LibraryCheck/issues/4 ) 19:38
MasterDuke doesn't MS provide images for testing on linux?
[Coke] Could probably fire one up in azure...
(images for testing) ah, even better.
mensvaga I see that I can say: has Int $.age; has Str $.name 19:39
Is there a way for me to specify that it has to be a number? And I don't care if it's an int, or a float?
lucasb has Numeric $.num
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MasterDuke m: say Int.^mro; say Num.^mro 19:39
camelia ((Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))
((Num) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))
mensvaga Numeric. Who would have guessed? ;)
MasterDuke m: say Int.^roles; say Num.^roles
camelia ((Real) (Numeric))
((Real) (Numeric))
tony-o ah, yea that'd be even better 19:40
mensvaga Nice. Learning some internals.
tony-o i'll take a look tonight [Coke]
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Kaiepi MasterDuke, everything seems to work on a more recent rakudo version 19:44
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MasterDuke that's good 19:50
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[Coke] tony-o: no pressure. I'm just thinking about what it would take for me to be able to use raku at work. 20:11
(but it wouldn't happen quickly anyway)
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tony-o if i do it now it'll give you time to play around with it so i can make it as production ready as possible 20:14
(and others, at that)
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lizmat and another Rakudo Weekly hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2019/11/04/2019-44-comma-cro/ 20:19
[Coke] lizmat++ Thanks! 20:20
discord6 <sjn 🇳🇴> Nice, thanks! lizmat++ 20:23
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Doc_Holliwood says `hello`from hungary 20:33
any of you guys located in the balaton area? 20:34
jnthn Kaiepi: Probably I'd just retry it. 20:39
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rba lizmat++ 21:23
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LtStaffel Anyone have any ideas why the discord module github.com/shuppet/p6-api-discord does not work with the latest cro (off github)? 21:36
kawaii Yeah it's broken currently 21:37
We know that much
Uh something something breaking change in JSON::Fast happened originally and then some other stuff broke too 21:38
I haven't had the time or energy to look into it
Altreus: ping ^
LtStaffel I'm nearly a complete noob with Raku but if there's a way I could try to help I'd like to 21:39
SmokeMachine [Coke]: it's not that difficult to write a Red Driver... (I mean for SQL... NoSQL I don't know yet...) 21:40
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AlexDaniel kawaii: hiii! :) 21:52
kawaii Yes hello Alex I've been away for a while :)
It's nice to be missed 21:53
You can have a Blin tomorrow
AlexDaniel kawaii: no need! We figured it out, I think!
kawaii: El_Che++ finished the dockerizing, maettu++ has a machine set up to run it
kawaii vanishes forever
AlexDaniel nooo 21:54
well, we still need to somehow run it automatically and share the results, or something like that
kawaii: as far as the release goes, technically it's ready, just waiting for moarvm release and then there's some paperwork left to do (like changelogging and stuff) 21:55
but all blockers are resolved and results from Blin seem to be clean 21:56
kawaii: so, I'm merging this? github.com/perl6/problem-solving/pull/83
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