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Set by lizmat on 25 August 2021.
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Geth doc: 45b411c093 | Coke++ | util/clean-spell
Add env var lets us start just after the last word
 03:25
doc: 57ca3dc737 | Coke++ | xt/pws/words.pws
Remove words no longer in use
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[Coke] github.com/Raku/doc/blob/master/ut...-spell#L95 - occasionally when running this script, I'll get an error that the cp command failed. Any idea why that might happen? 03:33
the disk isn't full, not a permissions problem as far as I can tell 03:35
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atweiden_air-- m: role A { has Str:D $.name = prompt("enter name: "); }; class A::B { also does A; has Str:D $.number = prompt("enter number: "); } my A::B $ab .= new; 05:25
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)
at <tmp>:1
------> D $.number = prompt("enter number: "); }⏏ my A::B $ab .= new;
expecting any of:
infix
inf…
atweiden_air-- how can i initialize A's `$.name` before B's `$.number`?
m: role A { has Str:D $.name = prompt("enter name: "); }; class A::B { also does A; has Str:D $.number = prompt("enter number: "); }; my A::B $ab .= new; 05:26
camelia enter number: enter name:
atweiden_air-- (without using `is` or class inheritance) 05:31
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CIAvash using `TWEAK`? 06:13
`role A { has Str $.name; }; class A::B does A { method TWEAK { $!name = prompt 'enter name: '; $!number = prompt 'enter number: '; }; has Str $.number; }; my A::B $ab .= new;` 06:14
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CIAvash or `role A [$name] { has Str $.name = $name; }; class A::B does A[prompt('enter name: ')] { has Str $.number = prompt 'enter number: '; }; my A::B $ab .= new;` 06:16
but that only happens on class declaration 06:17
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CIAvash or `role A { has Str $.name = prompt 'name: '; }; class A::B does A { method TWEAK { $!number = prompt 'number: ' }; has Str $.number; }; my A::B $ab .= new;` 06:28
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atweiden_air-- CIAvash thanks 07:04
why does inheritance DWIM, but not role composition?
m: role A { has Str:D $.name = prompt('enter name: ') }; class A::B is A { has Str:D $.number = prompt('enter number: ') }; my A::B $ab .= new;
camelia enter name: enter number:
atweiden_air-- and is there any practical difference between the above, and `s/role A/class A/`:
m: class A { has Str:D $.name = prompt('enter name: ') }; class A::B is A { has Str:D $.number = prompt('enter number: ') }; my A::B $ab .= new;
camelia enter name: enter number:
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CIAvash I'm not sure, but may be related to compile-time(role?) and run-time(late-binding?) difference 07:10
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[Coke] Huh. I have two windows machines with raku built on each one. One is reporting in task mgr as 32bit, the other is not. 13:53
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JRaspass Is there a more DRY way of doing this? I'm writing a TOML parser in raku, i essentially want a way to evaluate escapes in a string - | ｢\b｣ { make "\b" } | ｢\t｣ { make "\t" } | \n, \f, \r, \e, \", \\, etc. 14:31
lizmat JRaspass: create a hash with the mapping and do: make %mapper{$/} ?? 14:34
JRaspass yeah but then im still repeating it all, i presume this lookup exists in raku, i just want to use it somehow
lizmat remember that grammars are just code
JRaspass oh sure, i can use one code block but i don't want to have to repeat the keys, just tell raku to eval it 14:35
lizmat just create that hash outside of the scope of the grammar, but lexically visible
JRaspass but its still repeating it if you see what i mean
lizmat I guess I need a more elaborate gist to understand better :-) 14:36
JRaspass I want to leverage whichever api handles shorthand escapes when parsing a string in raku 14:37
lizmat perhaps: match on <[\b\t\n\f\r\e]> and then make %mapper{$/}
JRaspass yeah its the mapper i want to avoid
thats what i mean by DRY
lizmat perhaps: match on <[\b\t\n\f\r\e]> and then make ~$/ ?? 14:38
JRaspass that won't work, it needs to "parse" the string, ie turn ｢\n｣ into a literal newline 14:39
note i'm not matching literal newlines etc, i'm matching escape sequences
hence the funky quotes
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lizmat ah.. well, short of EVAL I don't think we can do anything like that 14:53
JRaspass yeah i was wondering/hoping that was some kind of nqp thing i could use but ta
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JRaspass it's basically an unescape 14:53
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lizmat sorry, nothing comes to mind 14:55
JRaspass np, ta
lizmat perhaps something in module space ?
JRaspass yeah maybe, it just irks me that the code is somewhere in bowels of rakudo since it has to do it when parsing strings
I went with the mapper in the end, not terrible - | @(keys %escapes) { make %escapes{$/} } 15:12
with my constant %escapes = ( ｢\b｣ => "\b", ｢\t｣ => "\t", ... ) 15:13
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lizmat weekly: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30918120 15:52
notable6 lizmat, Noted! (weekly)
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gfldex weekly: datakinds.github.io/2022/04/06/str...ing-wordle 18:28
notable6 gfldex, Noted! (weekly)
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Geth doc/CATCH-tweaks: 1312f06d95 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/exceptions.pod6
Some tweaks on CATCH

In resoponse to github.com/Raku/doc/issues/4049		 19:10
doc: lizmat++ created pull request #4050:
Some tweaks on CATCH
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melezhik . 19:14
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drakonis is there anything for generating dependency lockfiles? 21:27
is there anything for generating and fetching lockfiles?
oops
[Coke] system locks? There is a lock class for locking code for thread-safety. 21:33
if you want to access something like flockfile() in C, you can use NativeCall, not sure someone has written a wrapper. 21:35
drakonis oh no 21:38
i meant the kind that you use for pinning dependencies
this isnt even for myself
bundler, npm, cargo are pieces of software that use lockfiles for dependency management and fetching 21:40
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[Coke] lizmat: let me know if you want me to fix those examples in the PR 21:56
drakonis [Coke]: its a programmatically updated file containing the hashes of dependencies, basically 21:57
[Coke] ah, *those* kind of lockfiles
Don't recall seeing anything for those in the ecosystem. 21:58
japhb It's a terrible name for what it does
[Coke]: Doesn't fit with modules being able to declare their own dependency versions. 21:59
And for different modules to have different versions of the same dependencies
[Coke] not sure if they mean "for Raku modules" or "a raku script for managing npm lockfiles"
japhb Decent point./ 22:00
[Coke] there are plenty of JSON utilities in core & ecosystem, however, so you could pretty easily convert from existing lockfile to raku datastructure, or vice versa. 22:01
drakonis ha, sure.
i meant raku modules
not a script for managing npm lockfiles 22:02
[Coke] yah, if you have specific Raku module requirements, that's for META6.json 22:03
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drakonis its mainly to ensure that i'm fetching specific hashes for each package 22:05
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[Coke] sure, you can specify a specific version/auth in the META6.json - 22:08
drakonis so far that doesnt seem like the acceptable solution to my friend 22:09
but well, i'll figure it out
its all about the reproducibility 22:12
[Coke] docs.raku.org/language/modules#ind...META6.json 22:13
What are they specifically trying to do?
when you say "specific hashes" do you mean a specific git commit? 22:14
drakonis for the commit, yes, and another for the content in that commit 22:15
and some tooling to keep it up to date for fetching
[Coke] fetching is handled by the installer already. 22:16
(zef0
(zef)
not sure the syntax for pinning a dep on a specific commit, but I *think* it's possible. anyone? ugexe might know if anyone does. 22:17
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japhb drakonis: Depending on a specific git commit is *already* depending on the content of that commit. 22:18
drakonis but only for that specific dependency, yeah? 22:19
it doesn't propagate to everything? 22:20
[Coke] "everything"? 22:21
drakonis the dependency tree
japhb drakonis: That's why each module has its own META dependencies. Because you depend on an exact version of the module, and it can then depend on the exact version of its dependencies, recursively.
drakonis output a file containing the whole tree at the time?
[Coke] I wonder if there is a way to have zef get a specific commit from a git repo URL. you can already do zef install github.com/coke/raku-lingua-en-syllable.git , e.g.
japhb drakonis: Though for modules that *don't* currently depend on a particular version, I can see how you might want to force them to. 22:22
drakonis precisely.
[Coke] so you'd specify that version in YOUR meta6.json
even though you only depend on it indirectly. 22:23
drakonis i see
[Coke] so this all works if you pick "version" and not "commit"
japhb [Coke]: That won't force previously-installed dependencies to change versions. But if you're starting from a scratch rebuild anyway, you can install your top-level module and have it force the versions as you say. 22:24
Or to be more precise, it won't force previously-precompiled dependencies to now depend on different versions of *their* dependencies.
[Coke] I think you'd have to clone the repo, check out that commit, zef install from that working dir. but then you don't have that dep in your dep list, and I don't think you can "use" a module that way and have it enforce the fact that it was a specific commit.
japhb: you can install multiple versions of a module. 22:25
but since you can't then "use" the very specific one you wanted, I think you'd have two installed and not be able to pick the one you need.
japhb [Coke]: Yes, I know, that's not what I meant. 22:26
[Coke] so: in Raku: if you need a specific version, make sure it has a version. If you have to maintain a local version with a patch... you're the owner, you can require the one with your auth on it.
(previously compiled) yup, that's another issue, my bad.
in general, relying on someone else's repo and not using their released versions is dodgy, anyway. 22:27
for the install at least, this should work: 'zef install github.com/coke/raku-lingua-en-syl...f433f.zip' 22:30
might be able to list that as the dep itself, not sure.
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[Coke] for the install at least, this should work: 'zef install github.com/coke/raku-lingua-en-syl...f433f.zip' 22:35
(corrected)
johnny howdy folks. i was just asking my friend about how one can guarantee such that if if he's working on a project with dep1 requiring at least 1.1 (semver), with it's own dep1_1 = at least 0.9.5 22:36
such that if i install it, i will get the exact same contents down to the distribution unit (or commit hash) the exact same files in use
a reproducible build 22:37
drakonis i'm terrible at communication, so i ended linking to the logs
johnny and also, how can i make sure they are local to the project, and not installed at the system level , unlike at least the way CPAN was used 15 years ago (the last time i used CPAN) 22:38
system or user really*
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[Coke] in general, if you need that level of control, I do recommend hosting your own modules. (esp if you're using npm for javascript) 22:48
johnny i use pdm for python, composer for php, and cargo for rust. i'm pretty familiar wit hthe differences and similarities between these projects 22:49
[Coke] (that is, getting a copy, vetting it's safe/what you want, and saving it so you have your own private ecosystem)
johnny it's not about safety, but reproducibility
how can i guarantee my CI will use the exact same versions of all deps in my code? 22:50
[Coke] specify the version explicitly in your deps.
(version/auth) 22:51
johnny down to the point release? so i can't tkae advantage of semantic versioning?
[Coke] I don't understand your question. do you want the flexibility to allow minor version changes, or do you want a specific reproducible version? 22:52
johnny and that's not taking into account transients . how are those resolved?
let' say i depend on dep1 and it has a wildcard or some other semantic version specificaon 22:53
for it's own deps
how do i guarantee that those deps are stuck to which version i prefer without explicitly pinning all the deps of deps or whatever
[Coke] As far as I know, you'd have to pin them in your deps if you want to ensure you're not getting an upgraded version in a future install. 22:54
so your META6.json would have the specific versions of not just your direct deps, but their deps as well to maintain the control. 22:55
if you have company-wide version requirements that are the same, then hosting your own and updating those as needed is a solution. 22:56
johnny it is indeed a solution 22:57
[Coke] if you're installing stuff off the internet, you're not guaranteed you're going to get the same version regardless unless you're also verifying checksums don't change.
johnny of course i'd be doing that :)
but a local repo wouldn't solve it if we had our own local dev repo.. since it might run into the exact same problems mentioned
since a colleague could publish internal_dep1 at version 1.1.1 and i want internal_dep = 1.1.0, and thus now we're at two lcoal repos 22:58
[Coke] heading offline - best of luck. much of our community is on EU time, so expect some responses as people roll in tomorrow. 22:59
johnny well i don't really need an answer, so its' fine 23:04
drakonis reproducible-builds.org/ 23:08
the whole point is to ensure that all users or developers have the exact same data, bit by bit, ensuring maximal reproducibility 23:11
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japhb drakonis: Sounds like you want containers. 23:13
drakonis ha, maybe?
that's one way to achieve it
fetch all of the relevant sources and place them into a specific environment 23:14
japhb Right
drakonis guix and nix provide the means to do so without needing containers for builds
its not a priority to write something like guix and nix until i have sufficient raku knowledge 23:16
well, enough about this 23:18
back to learning the lang
Tirifto I thought methods mixed in from Roles with ‘does’ went in the method resolution order, in front of inherited methods, but behind own methods. But it seems like they only ‘stand in’ for own methods, and when an own method is defined, they completely disappear from the order? 23:21
m: role Loud { method shout { say “Hyaa!!!” }; }; class Loudmouth does Loud { method shout { callsame; say “Raah!!!” } }; Loudmouth.new.shout; 23:22
camelia Raah!!!
Tirifto Is this a fundamental difference between mixing and inherintance that I missed, and do I most likely want to inherit from classes if I want them in the MRO? `o` 23:24
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japhb Tirifto: For compile-time composition, roles are composed directly into the classes that 'does' them, with methods defined in the class replacing those in the composed-in-role. But you could still refer to the role's method if you wanted to. 23:31
m: role Loud { method shout { say “Hyaa!!!” }; }; class Loudmouth does Loud { method shout { self.Loud::shout; say “Raah!!!” } }; Loudmouth.new.shout;
camelia Hyaa!!!
Raah!!!		 23:32
japhb You can think of a role as providing some attributes, some default implementations, and some required interface.
Tirifto japhb: That makes sense. Thank you! 23:36

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