16:58 ilbot2 joined
moderator #parrot Parrot 0.5.2 Released | parrotcode.org/ | see www.parrotcode.org/misc/parrotsketch-logs/ for logs
moritz I know got logs online here: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today 16:59
s/\\bk// 17:02
17:18 Theory joined 17:27 sjansen joined
sjansen Is there any way to get piper to shut up about the channel being logged? I think telling everyone who wanders in is noble, but I'm now _fully_ informed. 17:29
particle we're working on it
right now we don't have the source. we're trying to get it in an svn repo, so we can modify at will. 17:30
avar ..or use the bot #perl6 uses 17:33
moritz avar: I just fired it up to log here as well
avar let's ban Piper ! 17:35
particle don't overreact. piper's not any worse than freenode's nickserv & freenode-connect 17:37
diakopter for some, joining a channel is done more often than connecting to a network, so in those cases, it is worse. That, and magnet/piper don't do authentication (like nickserv can). 17:42
diakopter welcomes ilbot2 17:44
purl, meet ilbot2
purl diakopter: sorry...
diakopter purl, love on ilbot2
purl diakopter: i'm not following you...
diakopter purl, figures.
purl diakopter: excuse me?
17:50 paq joined 17:59 cognominal_ joined
Coke as soon as we get piper source, we can hack on it. (I would like to use something that lets us keep the logs going where they're going.) 18:16
Coke wonders if you could write a sudoku solver using just perl6 rules. 18:18
moritz Coke: I've seen a mini (4x4) sudoku solver in p5 regexes 18:19
particle i don't see why not
moritz it's a nice backtracking problem, you just have to formulate it in a way that it fits into regexes
18:27 zaphod joined 18:40 alvar joined
zev Coke: perl.plover.com/NPC/NPC-3SAT.html and perl.plover.com/NPC/NPC-3COL.html 18:43
18:54 ruoso_ joined 19:00 Limbic_Region joined
Limbic_Region Juerd ping 19:00
Juerd pong
Limbic_Region did something just happen with feather? 19:01
Juerd nafaik. What kind of something?
Limbic_Region I just tried to logon to irc chat and was prompted for my username/password
Tene Like a song and dance number.
Juerd Limbic_Region: Errh
Limbic_Region: It's supposed to do that - just once, though. 19:02
Limbic_Region I gave it the same info 3 times and it said "authorization failed - either these are the wrong credentials or your browser doesn't know how to provide them"
Juerd Hm
MITM?
purl MITM is Man-in-the-Middle
Limbic_Region and then
Juerd [Wed Feb 06 19:59:26 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] AuthExtern MyShadowPwauth
[/usr/local/bin/pwauth]: Failed (51) for user limbic
[Wed Feb 06 19:59:26 2008] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] user limbic: authenticatio 19:03
n failure for "/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi": Password Mismatch
They're actual failures on feather
Any idea why it thinks you're at 127.0.0.1?
ssh tunnel?
19:04 Limbic_Region joined
Juerd 20:03 <@Juerd> Any idea why it thinks you're at 127.0.0.1? 19:04
20:03 <@Juerd> ssh tunnel?
Limbic_Region this is odd
I was chatting away and I got asked for my credentials again
but if I close the page, and go back - I don't get prompted at all
and no, I have no idea why it thinks that
I am coming in from behind a corporate proxy 19:05
Juerd Your browser caches credentials
So if you have ANY window open, it keeps them
What port are you using?
Limbic_Region except that it is the same credentials that feather said is wrong
Juerd Oh, https of course.
sslh proxies that on feather, hence the 127.1
Well, at this point I don't know what's wrong 19:06
Could be your keyboard, in theory :)
Or anything else in the chain
Limbic_Region nor do I - but it is incredibly odd. I give the same password 3 times and it says it is wrong. I reload and it takes me straight to IRC as though the password was right
Juerd Uhhuh, I agree it is strange.
Limbic_Region and then while I am chatting - it pops up the authentication window again
Juerd I'm not going to look into it now, though. If it happens more, please ping me again. 19:07
Limbic_Region whatever - seems to be working fine now
Juerd I'm blaming your browser for now :D
Easiest for myself
19:07 Limbic_Region joined 19:18 jisom joined
Coke groups.google.com/group/perl.cpan.t...86320ee9d3 :: why is this just showing up now? 19:19
shorten Coke's url is at xrl.us/bfrrk
particle coke: that's likely before Makefile.PL existed 19:22
and we should probably remove old parrot distros from cpan
19:38 paq joined
Coke particle: +1 # I've asked about that before. 19:38
before 1.0, we can get away with just the last 2 releases, I think. 19:39
kj oh this looks interesting (reading the title): listeningtoreason.blogspot.com/2008...guage.html 19:46
shorten kj's url is at xrl.us/bfrtc
kj let's check if they can beat the usability of PCT :-) 19:47
moritz looks like they stole some PCT ideas ;) 19:48
kj looks like it. Of course, maybe they thought of it before... the idea of a universal set of AST nodes was conceived years a go 19:50
for parrot at least
zaphod one could say that LISP thought of it in the 60s 19:51
kj heh :-)
also for new languages?
zaphod such as?
kj sorry, I misunderstand 19:52
zaphod I was wondering what you meant by "also for new languages?"....maybe I'm misunderstanding :)
kj what they say on this site is that you only have to construct the AST, and you're done. That's the approach with PCT as well. What do you mean with LISP in that context? 19:53
zaphod you can (almost) look at LISP as simply a serialization of an AST
kj oohok. But LISP was actually designed to be a language by itself, no?
it's way before my time :-) 19:54
zaphod LISP was an implementation of the lambda calculus. 19:55
But the syntax for code is the same as the syntax for the data structures. So a LISP program is just a LISP data structure and ends up being a tree
kj ah i see 19:56
19:56 teknomunk joined 19:58 paq joined
zaphod An interesting read, and pertinent to parrot probably is Olin Shivers' PhD dissertation. He works with Scheme and a representation of Scheme programs in Continuation Passing Style. 19:58
citeseer.ist.psu.edu/630499.html :: not a bad read 19:59
TimToady phone 20:01
diakopter points TimToady toward www.codeproject.com/KB/recipes/Irony.aspx 20:15
kj I'm happy to write some article on using PCT to implement a compiler, but I'd like to give a complete example including break and return statements 20:20
zaphod return statements are not currently supported in PCT AFAIK
kj yeah i know. that's why i mentioned it ;-) 20:21
zaphod Although the small compiler I wrote doesn't have break or return it might be good for an intro article since it is so small and simple 20:23
and I would be willing to help with the article :P 20:25
kj why don't you write it? :-) 20:27
Tene I've been thinking about writing some documentation... 20:29
Coke documentation++ 20:30
kj Tene++ # THINKING about documentation is the first step :-)
any particular topic?
Coke knowing is half the battle?
kj heh :-)
zaphod kj: hmmmm...what kind of article were you thinking of 20:31
Tene language implementation, PCT stuff, everything I wish I had had a good document about when I started playing with parrot.
kj zaphod: using the PCT to implement a non-trivial language
we've seen abc
it's kinda trivial
(i think) 20:32
Tene lolcode is a bit better, but isn't finished yet.
zaphod what would be non-trivial?
Tene Still needs some things.
kj Tene: I wrote some docs on PCT in docs/pct/
Tene: if you have a look at those, and see what's missing in your opinion
Tene Hmm. I should read those to avoid duplication.
kj then you could add the next step?
Tene Probably. 20:33
purl Really? Probably? Are you Certain it's not certain? Are you sure it's unsure? I think you need to look harder.
Tene Hmm... I need to figure out what to work on with particle tonight.
kj zaphod: non-trivial, well, Lua came to mind when I was typing. NOt sure if it's too non-trivial :-)
Tene Hopefully I can really attack cardinal next week. 20:34
zaphod yeah...non-trivial quick starts steping into the bounds of book instead of article :D
Tene I'm off work for most of next week.
kj Tene: cardinal is slow like **** currently
Tene I noticed.
kj it has to do with overlapping subrule I think
Tene I think I can clean that out a bit.
I have some fixes to the AST that let assignment to variables work, but I haven't made a clean patch yet. 20:35
one of the things was setting 'is lvalue' on infix:= in the grammar, iirc
kj zaphod: that's true, but Lua is quite straightforward in most parts. Some complex parts are lexicals for instance, but also the "leaves" of the AST: the behavior of values
(which can be implemented in PMCs btw) 20:36
zaphod: it could be a series of articles
with exercises "left to the reader" :-P 20:37
(which are given in the next episode)
zaphod sounds interesting and not too hard (I hope)...I'll give it some thought. I am just getting into this, and would like to do more, but I start working on my master's work in march, so time will be a little short 20:38
kj ah ok. I'll be getting a Real Job myself too soon.
I sent a patch to fperrad, the maintainer of the lua implementation; the patch contains the start of a PCT based impl. 20:39
anyway, I really like to do it if a complete implementation can be provided... if the hard parts are left out, there's not much point in doing it 20:40
tene: one thing that could use a manual is using the optable in a PGE based grammar 20:41
zaphod Sounds like an interesting languge for the articles would be one with interesting variables (to bring in PMCs), standard control structures (to mention most of the PAST::Op things), scopes/subs/closures (PAST::Block) and maybe even something that could have some simple but noticable optimizations done to the PAST (to show a new stage in the compiler) 20:43
kj (of course, copying an optable from another language is one solution, but you're bound to encounter some error messages if you make the slightest errror)
Coke Whee: www.perlfoundation.org/who_s_who
kj zaphod: yes. different articles: one about pmcs, one about operators, one about PAST nodes and using "make" command 20:44
not sure about optimzations... I don't have a clue how PAST could be optimized 20:45
except for the obvious register loading/storing of vars and such 20:46
particle congrats, coke!
zaphod I got it in my small compiler to provide tailcall (a functional language without tailcall is a short running program)
kj a tailcall eh. you emitted that :inline? 20:47
zaphod yeah...with a hack because PAST doesn't like the inline doing its own .return
kj afk for a bit 20:49
Coke particle: danke. 21:06
21:09 alvar joined 21:19 davidfetter joined
Coke ... crap, I'm going to have YA email address, aren't i. 21:21
svnbotlt r25555 | kjs++ | trunk: 21:22
: [docs] add a document about optables in pge-based grammars. this is a stub.
diff: perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25555
r25556 | kjs++ | trunk: 21:34
: [docs] add a bit to optable parsing guide. this is as much as i can do right now. more later (if nobody beats me to it)
diff: perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25556
21:35 integral joined
shamu hi folks 21:38
davidfetter hi
shamu someone just committed something that causes 'perl Configure.pl' to fail -- Checking MANIFEST...No such file: languages/plua/config/makefiles/root.in
No such file: languages/plua/lua.pir
21:41 kjs_ joined
Coke kj: bad dog. 21:41
kjs_ hey! I was trying to add documentation 21:42
uhm. let's see. what's the easiest way to do this
Coke let me fix it. 21:43
(that's the easiest. =-)
kj damn. something went wrong here too... now my file is gone :-( 21:45
shamu adding documentation caused the manifest to be wrong?
spinclad local change leaked into repo?
kj yea 21:46
shamu: i created a patch earlier today
which made svn think i added these file
so when regenerating manifest, they were added too
i forgot about thta
shamu ah ok thansk
Coke if you've svn added, but not committed, those changes show up. 21:47
kj exactly
Coke which is SUPPOSED to prevent issues where someone does the add, updates the manifest missing those files, and commits.
MANIFEST MUST DIE.
shamu ah ok
kj shit. now my file is gone completely. Anybody has a copy of docs/pct/pct_optable_guide.pod? 21:48
shamu which commit was that?
Coke kj: MANIFEST updated.
kj Coke: thanks
zaphod kj: I seem to
particle kj: revert it 21:49
kj I guess it's time to get a clean parrot again..
Coke kj: ... just svn up that one file?
(er, what particle said.) 21:50
kj i added that one file yes
Coke "svn revert <missing filename>
kj ah ok
(wasn't sure what you meant)
shamu thanks, it works now. 21:51
kj yay! it's back
Coke: thanks again.
svnbotlt r25557 | coke++ | trunk: 21:52
: back out some inadvertent additions to the MANIFEST.
diff: perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25557
Coke np.
21:56 zaphod left
jonathan evening @all 22:17
Tene Yes, it is!
sjansen A mighty fine afternoon. 22:22
22:28 Andy joined
Tene has an idea. 22:36
moritz has lots of ideas, most of them are crap ;) 22:37
jonathan Last night I had an idea. "Let's hack on Rakudo before I sleep!" Then I went to bed and lay awake for two hours working out how to implement More Stuff. 22:39
Tene It might be pretty straightforward to write a graphic app to explore parse trees and PAST trees. 22:40
jonathan Tene: Parrot has SDL bindings OR just get the dump of it and parse it and use it in whatever you like. 22:41
Tene Right.
SDL wouldn't be much fun. 22:42
jonathan I've never used it; I haven't written any meaningful GUI app in years.
Tene I just need a simple gtk or tk treeview
Alias_ Tene: Install PPI::Tester 22:44
There is a precedent for this sort of thing
I wrote that for PPI debugging, it was mostly simple to write and incredibly useful 22:45
Cut per-bug fix time down from an hour to 15 mins 22:46
Tene bbiab
22:47 DarkWolf84 joined 22:52 gryphon joined 23:09 wknight8111 joined 23:40 kid51 joined, Andy joined

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!