www.parrot.org/ | Parrot 1.4.0 "Mundo Cani" Released!
Set by moderator on 21 July 2009.
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dalek rrot: r40243 | tene++ | trunk/src/pmc/class.pmc:
Minor POD fix for class.pmc.
 00:08
rrot: r40244 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret (3 files):
[bsr_jsr_ret] fix some stuff that I broke because I'm not doing good work like I should be
 00:16
Whiteknight I am going to be so happy when bsr/jsr/ret are all completely removed 00:40
dalek rrot: r40245 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret/t/compilers/pge/p5regex/p5rx.t:
[bsr_jsr_ret] another test to fix because I broke it last time I 'fixed' it
 00:42
wayland76 kid51++ for ticket sorting :) 00:51
dalek cnum-dynpmcs: r118 | darbelo++ | trunk/aux/decTest/src/ (3 files):
[decTest] Add support for the multiply_add operation (fma in the tests).
 00:58
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cotto darbelo, ping 01:27
darbelo cotto: pong
cotto darbelo, do you know why the decTest parser takes so long on the decTest files? 01:28
It seems to be taking longer than it should for such a (relatively) simple format
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darbelo I don't know really. I have no knowledge of what PCT does internally in order to tokeinze/parse/etc. 01:31
cotto It may just be that that pct-generated parsers are slow.
The grammar looks sane and growth seems to be linearly proportional to the size of the input file, as one would expect. 01:32
chromatic The lack of LTM hurts.
wayland76 Who's working on LTM? pm? 01:33
cotto wayland76, yes
pmichaud can I see the grammar?
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pmichaud or whatever you all are referring to? ;-) 01:33
darbelo cotto: FWIW I still plan to stick the generated pir in the repo, but right now at least one file dies from "out of memory"-ness, so that still needs some work. 01:34
pmichaud: code.google.com/p/decnum-dynpmcs/so...grammar.pg 01:35
and a not-very-pathological example of what we are parsing is at code.google.com/p/decnum-dynpmcs/so...ly.decTest 01:37
pmichaud you probably want to tell the compiler to assume ascii input instead of utf-8 01:41
i suspect you get a significant speedup from that.
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darbelo pmichaud: How do I specify ascii-only input? 01:45
pmichaud I'm checking to verify that's actually the likely problem 01:46
okay, I'm guessing it may already be coming in as fixed_8/ascii 01:47
so that might not be it
how long is "longer than it should" here?
cotto about 12 seconds for 730 lines of test file 01:49
pmichaud that does seem longish
darbelo cotto: Just parse or parse and run?
cotto like like about 620 lines of actual code 01:50
that's just parsing
darbelo 'cause the "run" is pretty damm slow, and that's not PCT's fault ;) 01:51
cotto one thing at a time 01:54
kid51 signs off, the better to contemplate the horrors of "Higher Order Perl" 01:55
darbelo cotto: Just making sure you weren't dumping all the blame in one place. :) 01:56
cotto btw, I don't think most of src/inc/procs.pir is necessary.
pmichaud maybe I'll try it here... (while watching Larry's SOTO) 01:57
cotto You can use a PAST::Op with :pirop('mul') 01:58
although the way you're doing it does make the compiler simpler 01:59
darbelo cotto: I wanted to get it 'done' before getting it 'right', so to speak. Generating a dumb 'call' means I don't have to care if I made the operation a VTABLE or a METHOD. 02:00
cotto That's a valid strategy.
I'm afk for a couple hours. Bye
darbelo I'm going out for food in a few minutes, so msg me if you need to tell me something. 02:01
dalek cnum-dynpmcs: r119 | darbelo++ | trunk/src/pmc/decnum.pmc:
[DecNum] Add error-checking to a few METHODS. There are now a few less
 02:03
pmichaud I'm not sure why it's taking so long to parse. It could just be the length of the file, but it feels like there must be something else slowing it down. 02:23
It doesn't appear to be a file encoding issue. 02:25
It *could* be the number of case-insensitive matches required.
(case-insensitive matching being a bit slow and requiring creation of strings) 02:26
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dukeleto how do I run a single parrot test file? 02:40
jdv perl t/harness [tests] ? 02:53
dukeleto jdv: thanks, that works 02:59
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dalek rdinal: 7112008 | (Ted Reed)++ | (3 files):
Remove the old Failure stuff and add Exception and its hierarchy.
 03:49
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dukeleto jdv: of course, prove works as well. I just wasn't grasping that Parrot tests are plain ol' perl tests 04:16
bacek_at_work dukeleto: not all of them 04:22
purl not all of them are modifying my brain
dalek rrot: r40246 | dukeleto++ | trunk (2 files):
Add some basic testing for pgegrep
dukeleto bacek_at_work: good to know
i don't think pgegrep works
dalek TT #874 created by dukeleto++: pgegrep is broke 04:24
dukeleto fixed it :) 04:31
bacek_at_work ship it! 04:34
dukeleto is there any guidelines for add files which are needed by tests? i want to add tests for pgegrep on files. i could just test from stdin, but that seems dirty 04:35
bacek_at_work bacek@illusion:~/src/parrot$ find t -name testdata 04:36
t/native_pbc/testdata
dukeleto: something like this
dalek rrot: r40247 | dukeleto++ | trunk (4 files):
Fix pgegrep by updating the mode argument to open() and add a test
 04:50
TT #874 closed by dukeleto++: pgegrep is broke 04:52
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cotto If we had profiling, it'd be pretty simple to figure out why the decTest parser is slow. Maybe I should get back to working on that. 05:31
msg darbelo It'd be nice if there were a make target to build/run the decTest tests from the tree's root. 05:35
purl Message for darbelo stored.
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dalek rrot: r40248 | dukeleto++ | trunk/t/tools/pgegrep.t:
Add tests for the basic command-line options of pgegrep
 06:10
cotto That sounds like it could be an interesting tool. 06:15
Hmm. I think that code wants to be rewritten in nqp. 06:17
bacek_at_work cotto: I'm going to finish OrderedHash branch over weekend and jump back to ops_pct branch. 06:21
cotto fortunately the ops_pct stuff helps me prepare for working with profiling with chromatic 06:23
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maettu I have parrot checked out & installed. Now I want to try some languages. BASIC :-) e.g. It's web-link is: trac.parrot.org/parrot/browser/tru...ages/BASIC How do I check it out with svn? 06:27
moritz mkdir parrot/languages/; cd parrot/languages/; svn co trac.parrot.org/parrot/browser/tru...ages/BASIC or something like that 06:30
but I don't know if BASIC works against an installed parrot, or if it needs the build tree available 06:31
maettu svn: »trac.parrot.org/parrot/browser/tru...ges/BASIC« path not found :-( 06:32
moritz ah wait 06:34
bacek_at_work trac.parrot.org/languages 06:35
moritz the link you've given about doesn't work either
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NotFound I think BASIC doesn't work since some time ago. 06:35
bacek_at_work trac.parrot.org/parrot/browser/tru...?rev=37396 06:36
worksforme... 06:37
moritz maybe I should get some more sleep.
NotFound I think it was droppen when languages leave the nest because no one asked for it to stay or maintained. 06:39
bacek_at_work patch^W volunteers welcome! :)
NotFound I'd like better an implementation of the gambas Basic dialect. 06:40
maettu bacek_at_work: yes, I can see the code in my browser, but I can't download the thing using svn 06:41
moritz svn co -r $revsion $svn_url 06:43
the $svn_url is probably svn.parrot.org/parrot/trunk/languages/BASIC/ 06:44
maettu no 06:45
moritz which revision did you chose? 06:47
maettu 37396 06:52
moritz no idea then 06:55
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wayland76 does anyone know whether ncigen works? 07:43
chromatic I think it does. 07:46
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cotto pbc? 07:55
purl pbc is not a good form for direct execution
cotto no, pbc is peanut butter cookie
purl okay, cotto.
cotto pbc is also parrot bytecode
purl okay, cotto.
cotto I guess it could also be a lead cookie. 08:02
mikehh codetest, distro_tests FAIL , All others PASS (pre/post config, smolder, fulltest) at r40248 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 08:03
nopaste "mikehh" at 86.167.197.184 pasted "codetest, distro_test failures at r40248" (85 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17377 08:04
"mikehh" at 86.167.197.184 pasted "PATCH for codetest failure in r40248" (19 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17378
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mikehh t/tools/pgegrep.t and t/tools/testdata need svn properties set 08:06
cotto yay! easy karma
moritz mikehh++ cage cleaning 08:07
mikehh ok now I am going to try rakudo 08:08
moritz it won't build yet.
jonathan wanted to give it a shot today (iirc), but doesn't seem awake yet ;-) 08:09
cotto moritz, does it need the ops patch?
moritz cotto: presumably
dalek rrot: r40249 | cotto++ | trunk/compilers/ncigen/NCIGENP6.pm:
[codingstd] trailing space fix, mikehh++ for noticing
cotto just a sec
mikehh oh dear - yes I see that 08:10
nopaste "cotto" at 74.61.2.46 pasted "ops update for rakudo" (25 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17379
cotto moritz, try that
moritz tries 08:11
cotto (that's for post r40198)
er, r40198 or after
moritz seems to re-enable build 08:12
cotto++
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moritz I'll just bump PARROT_REVSISION to current HEAD 08:12
cotto I broke it in the first place. ;)
dalek rrot: r40250 | cotto++ | trunk/t/tools (2 files):
[codingstd] set svn file properties, mikehh++ for noticing
moritz it now builds the stage 1 compiler, and then dies with "Direct creation of Iterator" 08:13
which seems to be a different problem
something that bacek++ "broke", presumably 08:14
cotto Dude. You get karma for breaking stuff without fixing it? 08:15
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moritz I just hope that bacek_at_work will feel guilty for getting karma thusly, and also contributes a patch 08:17
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moritz ;-) 08:18
cotto: I pushed your patch to a branch in Rakudo, so that somebody (maybe jonathan) can pick it up easily
cotto The Crazy Russian feels no remorse. 08:19
moritz (just for reference, the branch is called build-parrot-head)
somehow I don't understand that 08:21
ah, never mind 08:22
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moritz seems the Iterator fix is also easy... 08:23
testing
dalek kudo: fc60e1d | (Matthew Walton)++ | Test.pm:
Updated Test.pm planless testing support.
 08:37
kudo: b198624 | moritz++ | (3 files):
re-enable building against parrot HEAD
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dalek rrot: r40251 | dukeleto++ | trunk/t/tools/pgegrep.t:
Add svn Id to t/tools/pgegrep.t
 08:51
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bacek o hai 08:54
Who called my name?
moritz did
but it's fixed now anway
bacek moritz: that's good :) 08:55
bacek looking for brake something else.
without remorse and regrets! 08:57
mikehh any idea wht nqp_test is included in make test and not smoke/smolder or fulkltest 09:22
s/fulkl/full/ 09:23
s/ wht/why/
chromatic Possibly an oversight. 09:24
mikehh chromatic: been following your blog on Modern Perl - I don't understand all the objections 09:31
chromatic: to your comments I mean - It makes perfect sense to me
chromatic David Golden made some good points about vision recently: www.dagolden.com/index.php/331/what...l-5-to-be/ 09:33
moritz that would make a good perlmonks poll ;-)
mikehh I read that - I still feel if you want to use an old(er) version you can get it from git 09:35
chromatic p5p is not a democracy though, and it's unlikely to be so. The best we can do is be clear about our motivations and try to help shape development in the directions we want to go.
mikehh BTW - I just got a copy of Linux Magazine this morning (UK edition) - It has an article on Parrot by Martin Streicher (Birdsong) 09:39
that's the September 2009 edition 09:42
All tests PASS (pre/post config, smolder, nqp_test, fulltest) at r40251 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 09:45
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mikehh rakudo now builds on parrot r40251 - make test PASS running make spectest 09:51
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mikehh rakudo (b198624) builds on parrot r40251 - make test/make spectest (up to 27696) PASS 10:02
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dalek kudo: 9c44089 | jnthn++ | (8 files):
Separate out the Rakudo metaclass (calling it ClassHOW) from the Parrot one, and make sure everything we create uses this metaclass. This means we poke less stuff into p6object's namespace, and paves the way for various other refactors and additions.
 10:17
kudo: e989e65 | jnthn++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
Oops, mis-merged PARROT_REVISION (Matt-W++ for noticing).
 10:23
rrot: r40252 | bacek++ | branches/orderedhash_revamp/src/pmc/orderedhash.pmc:
[pmc] Fix thawing OrderedHash.
 10:34
rrot: r40253 | bacek++ | branches/orderedhash_revamp/src/pmc/orderedhash.pmc:
[pmc] Reimplement OrderedHash.defined_keyed_* and exists_keyed_*
rrot: r40254 | bacek++ | branches/orderedhash_revamp/src/pmc/orderedhash.pmc:
[pmc] Implement OrderedHash.delete_keyed
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masak I'd like to take a moment to point out that trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/536 is slightly annoying for Rakudo application developers. 10:49
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jonathan masak: It sure is. :-| 11:12
And it's only going to get a bigger problem in the near future. 11:13
masak sulks
jonathan Well, since the first proposed solution involves removing code.. ;-) 11:16
bacek jonathan: patched welcome! :) 11:17
s/d /s /
jonathan bacek: Aye, well, I think allison++ wants the difference benchmarked before we rip it out.
I've no clue what difference it will make tbh.
bacek it's better to be slow but correct... 11:18
And any optimisations shouldn't be handled by some low-level assembly compiler. 11:19
jonathan correct++ 11:20
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bacek *sigh* 11:21
bacek just realised that he forgot to put OrderedHash into DEPRECATION.pod...
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wayland76 masak: You're incredible 11:57
masak wayland76: thank you. for what do I deserve the honour? 11:59
wayland76 Well, you've heard of the incredible sulk, yes? :)
masak not until right now, no. :P 12:00
wayland76 (sorry :) )
(I can never resist a joke)
masak you're forgiven.
pmichaud now understands what that breeze passing directly over his head was. 12:01
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wayland76 purl: help 13:37
purl #perl is not a help channel, and I'm not a help bot. If you want Perl help, try #perl-help or #metallica. or (see the 'help channel' factoid as well) or
masak purl: you have some attitude, you know that? 13:38
purl bugger all, i dunno, masak
wayland76 purl: @karma
purl wayland76: huh?
moritz karma wayland76 13:39
purl wayland76 has karma of 1
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dalek TT #823 reopened by coke++: packfile pmc tests failing 15:20
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dalek nie: r78 | isop44++ | trunk/ (4 files):
Use iter pirop instead of instantiating Iterator's. Parrot doesn't allow the
 15:46
rrot: r40255 | jonathan++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:
[p6object] If a class already does P6object, don't try to add it again. This enables us to register derived metaclasses.
 15:48
kudo: ca2e4f1 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
[t/spectest.data] 5 more passing test files
 15:53
kudo: f78cf0b | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
This gets us creating the metaclass right at the start of class creation and operating on it. We dispatch traits on it also, which many of the fixes in here are helping towards. We also make mentions of ClassHOW work more properly, by having it registered, so now it's a bit less special. For now, there's more mess, but this is mostly an enabling refactor for more cleanups.
 16:06
kudo: 546c253 | jnthn++ | :
Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
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dalek kudo: d4d2319 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
[t/spectest.data] fix test name, moritz--
 16:12
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cotto bacek_at_work, how exciting. You get the have the first deprecation eligible after 2.0. 16:31
although if you're not changing the API, you're clear.
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dalek rtcl: r543 | coke++ | trunk/ (2 files):
Add --skip option to spec testing, to specifically test skipped tests (unfudge)

Add a potentially useless SIGCHLD handler		 16:42
kudo: 5167835 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
spectest-progress.csv update: 418 files, 11913 passing, 0 failing
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dalek rdinal: ba66eaf | (Danius Michaelides)++ | (2 files):
Implement Array.each_index with test; also adds a test for .each_with_index.
 16:58
particle great to see cardinal progressing with new contributors 17:01
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treed Yeah. 17:04
It'd be great to grow a community around it.
particle every commit helps :) 17:05
cotto I'm happy. More people developing means more pressure to make Parrot awesome.
treed I got a pull request yesterday, and that patch today. 17:06
Two different people.
jonathan Wow! Nice! :-) 17:07
treed The patch was froom a guy who says he's a newbie with the whole git thing. In my reply thanking him for the patch I offered to help teach him about git. 17:08
PerlJam treed++ building community 17:10
treed Thanks.
particle feel free to set up #cardinal if it'll help 17:11
treed I think he's in a drastically different timezone than me, though.
I was thinking about it.
particle i'll join, to be a parrot resource
treed His name is Greek and the patch came in at 4AM my time.
I just gotta figure out how to have that many IRC channels. 17:12
(irssi)
Well, rather, how to navigate to them. 17:13
PerlJam treed: what client do you use?
particle sounds like irssi 17:14
treed Yeah.
I got rid of a query window so now #cardinal fits in at #10.
PerlJam I use Alt-1, Alt-2, etc. to switch between my windows 17:15
for numbers > 10, it's Alt-Q, Alt-W, etc.
particle maybe Infinoid can get dalek reporting cardinal commits in #cardinal
treed Ah.
PerlJam (qwerty keyboard)
treed That'd be better if I still used QWERTY>
particle dvorak++
12 years and counting
treed 7 years here, I think.
I remember it was December and I was living in an apartment in Ontario. 17:16
Which would have to have been either 2002 or 2003.
Pretty sure it was 2002.
Coke idly wonders if he can qwerty faster than particle can dvorak.
treed Because I was unemployed at the time. (Actually the last time I was unemployed before the last couple weeks.) 17:17
I have a hard time accurately measuring my typing speed. Largely because so many tests have that stupid "accuracy" thing.
particle acuraccy--
treed Look, let me type things to their completion. If it's not 100% accurate, I'm not done.
treed has a bad habit of typing arary instead of array.
Also acconut instead of account.
particle i can usually tell dvorak users by their typos 17:18
treed Heh. I remember a quote from a dvorak user. "Actually, don't listen tto $band. I want you to kill yourself. ... KILL yourself. Dammit."
er
the first kill was kiss
LOL, I typoed it. 17:19
particle :) 17:20
jdv79 are there any plans for (or does it already exist) memory metrics for mem profiling and such?
treed (Also, lag (typeahead( ssucks) 17:21
jdv79 we're running into this at $work with p5 and its inadequate facilities for mem profiling.
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dalek kudo: dd5767c | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | src/ (2 files):
Simple implementation of [//] and [||] operators

Signed-Off-By: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>		 17:27
rdinal: 4a4c0b6 | (Ted Reed)++ | README:
Add a note about #cardinal to the README.
 17:31
cotto jdv79, the only profiling work I know of is what chromatic and I will be working on, which is focusing on execution time. 17:36
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treed I wonder, too, if it'd be possible to set up dalek to get information about the issue tracking system on cardinal. 17:39
Coke where is cardinal hosted? 17:42
treed github
Infinoid does github have issue tracking? 17:43
treed Yeah.
github.com/cardinal/cardinal/issues
It's fairly rudimentary, but it works.
Infinoid cool. That means I can add support for issue tracking once and it'll automatically work for all the github projects (which are many) 17:44
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treed There's an RSS feed on github, but it's for the whole project, commits and all. 17:45
Infinoid yeah. github.com/Infinoid/dalek-plugins/b...bparser.pm parses that
treed Actualyl, doesn't seem to do issues or wiki page changes.
Infinoid if it's some other feed URL, shouldn't be hard to poll that too
treed There doesn't seem to be one for issues. 17:46
wiki.github.com/cardinal/cardinal/wikis.atom
That's the one for the wiki.
particle opbots: trust treed 17:49
slavorg Ok
slavorgn Ok
treed Huh.
That's a ... simple security model. 17:50
particle you seem vaguely human.
that's our criterion for op privs here
congrats! :)
treed Oh, so I need to work on my mask, then? Where is it showing through?
Haha, thanks.
17:50 Andy joined
treed Apparently in order to get slavorg to join #cardinal, it needs to trust me on that channel. 17:52
particle slavorg: owner? 17:53
purl owner is hachi, see also #purl
particle hachi can get that set up for you
treed k
message hachi Hi! Would it be possible to set up slavorg in #cardinal? Thanks! 17:54
purl Message for hachi stored.
particle probably better to /msg hachi, he's not here that often
treed k
hachi isn't slavorg a person? 17:55
treed Huh? 17:56
If they are, they type very fast and very convincingly botlike. 17:57
hachi well, in any case... I am not their keeper... and I don't even know who is
particle oh, silly purl 17:58
purl La la la. I can't hear you
particle i asked slavorg for owner, and purl responded
treed Oh, heh.
Sorry to bug you, hachi. 17:59
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darbelo treed: I think slavorg/slavorgn is run by Infinoid 18:17
Coke note that purl was answering for herself.
treed Yeah, we noted that after the fact. 18:18
darbelo: He was just here. :-P
Coke rant: coredumps are overriding each other! 18:19
(so if I have 20 coredumps in the partcl spec test suite, I have only one core file. whah.)
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Tene treed: github has IRC reporting on freenode. You could move #cardinal to freenode. 18:24
treed Hm. 18:25
How does it handle that?
Is there a configuration for that somewhere?
Tene Yes.
in the admin page
you'll need to log in as 'cardinal'
treed nods.
If only I didn't have an entirely different nick on freenode. :-P 18:26
Shit. 18:27
#cardinal on freenode is already taken.
Tene orly?
purl YA RLY.
Tene thx purl
treed Only three people in there.
Tene we could just use it anyway and /ignore them. 18:28
;)
treed Haha.
Whoever's in there isn't the registered owner.
It hasn't been used by the registered owner in 5 years. 18:29
Tene treed: actually, github has irc notifications for any irc server. 18:33
treed Oh.
Tene just checked
github.com/cardinal/cardinal/edit/hooks
treed Aha. 18:34
Hm.
Best to keep it here, then maybe.
Tene Could be. The reason to move to freenode is to reinforce the separation from Perl 6. I know that's an issue for Pynie. 18:35
The python folks don't much like perl, or something, so allison has had to be very explicit in not letting anything with 'perl' in the name be a part of Pynie.
Coke Tene: given that perl6 is on freenode, I'm confused. =-) 18:36
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treed Ah. 18:36
That's a good point.
Tene Coke: "on the same network as #perl6" is less of an association with perl than "on irc.perl.org"
Coke I certainly hope the non-perl gyrations are worth the effort. So far, any of those migrations have been a PITA.
Tene: so you mean perl, not perl6?
Tene Coke: from what I've heard, seeing the word "perl" mentioned anywhere associated with a Parrot-hosted language is enough to drive some people away from contributing. 18:37
I've heard.
darbelo Tene: I think irc.parrot.org works as an alias to irc.perl.org 18:38
Coke darbelo: yes, that's all it is.
the switch away on mailing lists and ticketing systems was a bit more problematic. 18:39
(and still not resolved, after... what, a year?)
treed Yeah, I found a rant from someone about how they gave up on Parrot because it's just a Perl6 clique blah b lah blah.
Tene Coke: I know, for example, that pynie absolutely can't use P6object while it still has that name, but potentially could if it was renamed.
Coke that guy on list, yah. who refused to contribute even after everyone nicely followed up with him.
I'm not entirely convinced those are the people we want to be attracting anyway.
Tene: that's insane. 18:40
I'm not saying you're wrong, to be clear.
Tene Coke: As I understand it, allison considers it a completely reasonable fear.
darbelo Tene: to Python6Object? :)
chromatic I'll go further. Those are people I want nothing to do with.
Coke chromatic: I was trying to be diplomatic. 18:41
treed Tene: looks like the IRC hook on github only does commits?
Tene treed: what else is there?
Coke perhaps that'll change if I get voted out. =-)
treed Tene: Issue tracker, wiki.
Tene ah
Um, dunno.
chromatic I don't see the point of diplomacy versus someone willing to post angry screeds. I'm all for discouraging angry screeds. We're all volunteers and we should treat each other with kindness and respect. 18:42
treed The wiki has an atom feed, but there's nothing for the issue tracker.
PerlJam chromatic: www.randsinrepose.com/archives/2009...radox.html (he says we need these people but doesn't make a good enough argument for me) 18:45
chromatic "I'm not touching your project because the domain name of your bug tracker has the word 'perl' in it!" is far, far beyond "I feel upset because I believe your backwards compatibility policy will lead to rewriting 500k sloc in the next year instead of doing new development." 18:49
One of them is a disagreement over vision, implied or expressed.
"I will only contribute if you change your bug tracker, migrate to other domain names, and set up a separate 501 c 3 corporation to hold your copyrights and trademarks" is a big request. 18:51
Coke chromatic: and yet we did it. 18:59
I haven't seen a huge influx of contributors, though. =-)
chromatic There's no *good* time to make any of those changes. I won't deny that they're useful changes though. 19:00
Coke I don't think "changing our bug tracker" is useful. It was theoretically useful. in practice it has been a huge time sink and is less featureful now. 19:03
PerlJam sunk cost though at this point. 19:04
Coke sure, NOW it is. 19:06
I know. why don't we switch back to RT, then? then it'll be another sunk cost. =-)
PerlJam: to be less snarky, it was an avoidable cost, and it gave us very little bang for our buck. We're not even done paying for it yet. 19:09
so the next time we make a big non-technical change like that, we should probably examine our goals a little more closely. 19:10
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hachi treed: no worries, I'm hoping to try and find a better answer for you 19:17
Infinoid treed: I run slavorgn, but not slavorg 19:19
so I can give you 1 out of 2
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dalek rrot: r40256 | tene++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/Curses.pir:
Add a pair of missing fucntions to Curses.pir
 19:39
particle how do i convince perltidy to align vertically on => 19:42
dalek rrot: r40257 | cotto++ | branches/ops_pct (391 files):
bring branch up-to-date with trunk, remove some references to deleted files
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cotto howdy bacek 20:29
20:36 eternaleye joined
bacek morning cotto 20:37
bacek trying to understand why he woke up... 20:38
20:44 eternaleye joined 20:46 Andy joined
cotto clock? 20:48
purl cotto: LAX: Fri 1:48pm PDT / CHI: Fri 3:48pm CDT / NYC: Fri 4:48pm EDT / LON: Fri 9:48pm BST / BER: Fri 10:48pm CEST / IND: Sat 2:18am IST / TOK: Sat 5:48am JST / SYD: Sat 6:48am EST /
cotto kangaroo?
purl kangaroo is an aboriginal word meaning "I don't know." Applied to a bouncy marsupial due to a conversation that went something like. "What is that thing?" "Kangaroo." "Oh."
treed Infinoid: Thanks.
jonathan Is that really ture?! 20:49
cotto en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo#Terminology 20:50
because everything on Wikipedia is true
payload FAILGOAL is defined very similar in PGE/Regex.pir and in PCT/Grammar.pir 20:52
Coke bacek: ping
bacek cotto: poooong 20:53
Coke bacek: packfile tests failing on i686. I reopened the ticket.
(culled from smolder reports)
not_coke That should clear up a few things. 20:54
not_cotto sure will!
bacek Coke: I saw it :-/
zombie_bacek brainz... brainz...
not_coke zombie_bacek, can zombies still code? 20:55
chromatic They can't steer.
zombie_bacek In brainless more
20:55 Andy joined
not_coke Hmmm. 20:55
not_cotto and that's no bull?
not_coke I guess that works.
Sometimes I wonder if I've been coding like that. 20:56
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zombie_bacek not_cotto: (OrderedHash) My new implementation "reorded" integer keys after delete values. 20:59
And it differ from "old" OrderedHash...
not_coke zombie_bacek, Hmm. That does sound suspiciously like an API change. 21:01
not_not_cotto maybe that'll help
treed Infinoid: If you could add commit notifications or even just this feed github.com/cardinal.atom to #cardinal, that'd be great. 21:05
(I think that's the feed)
bacek Coke: it is API change :( 21:06
Coke bacek: what? 21:08
cotto You might mention it (by proxy?) at #ps. I think deletion from OrderedHashes is mostly unused (because it's an ugly hack).
treed Yeah, probably with s/https/http/
Coke were you talking to cotto again?
treed That'll include the wiki page edits and issue tracker, as well.
bacek Bah!
bacek need second coffee
cotto Yes, you do.
Coke takes his coffee and goes home
bacek cotto: Deletion from "old" OrderedHash is hack. But it works (fsvo). We can't change this behaviour without deprecation notice... 21:16
cotto bacek, could you make the new code act like the old code in a way that'd be easy to change after 2.0? 21:21
bacek cotto: there is not point to do it... 21:22
cotto It sounds easier than dealing with 6 months of changes before applying it. 21:23
bacek not quite true... 21:24
support "old" behaviour will increase code (and complexity of core) dramatically. 21:25
cotto Ok. I was afraid that'd be the case. 21:26
bacek (at least with my current OH implementation)
cotto How many files does it touch?
(the branch)
bacek May be I'll investigate different approach for implementing OrderedHash.
1
cotto no test changes?
bacek tests failing. 21:27
(for deleted values from OH)
cotto ok. For some reason I though that the branch was ready to merge (apart from the missing deprecation)
bacek (actually 3 files)
cotto: it almost ready. Some final polishing required. 21:28
cotto Is the only externally-visible difference in how OH behaves when you delete elements? 21:30
bacek cotto: yes afaiu 21:31
cotto because if so, it doesn't sound like it'd be too much work to keep it in a branch, occasionally sync with trunk and merge it after 2.0.
but adding a deprecation notice now wouldn't be a bad idea
bacek indeed 21:32
msg Coke I can't reproduce packfile failure on my Linux/i686... 21:35
purl Message for coke stored.
21:37 theory joined 21:41 Whiteknight joined
bacek good morning Whiteknight 21:43
Whiteknight good morning bacek
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treed message Infinoid If you could add commit notifications or ideally just this feed github.com/cardinal.atom (includes wiki edits and issue tracker as well as commits) to #cardinal, that'd be great. 22:09
purl Message for infinoid stored.
Infinoid Yeah, working on that now
treed Oh, okay.
Thanks.
Wasn't user you saw that earlier.
22:09 dalek joined
Infinoid Huh? Understand sentence I don't your. 22:10
Oh, s/user/sure/?
22:19 Whiteknight joined
treed Yeah. 22:24
Sorry.
That's a funny typo.
dalek rdinal: aa7cbfb | cardinal++ | index.html:
github generated gh-pages branch
 22:28
rdinal: 03380ae | (Ted Reed)++ | :
Merge branch 'gh-pages' of git@github.com:cardinal/cardinal
rdinal: 2c093da | (Ted Reed)++ | Rakefile:
Add more items to the test suite report, and also to the CLEAN FOR COMMIT check.
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dalek rrot: r40258 | Infinoid++ | trunk/CREDITS:
Add treed++ to CREDITS for karma aliasing.
 22:43
rdinal: 604c940 | (Ted Reed)++ | index.html:
Remove index.html, which somehow fell into master from gh-pages.
 22:47
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dalek rrot: r40259 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret (3 files):
[bsr_jsr_ret] update two more tests
 23:56

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