Parrot 2.0.0 "Inevitable" released! | parrot.org | Priorities: deprecated core PMCs, ops -> dynops, GC tuning and implementation | Roadmap: icanhaz.com/parrotroadmap | Latest modified TT's: icanhaz.com/parrotbugs
Set by moderator on 2 February 2010.
cotto Nice. It does. 00:03
Austin++
Austin++ 00:06
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#32086), fulltest) at r43766 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++ with --optimize) 00:14
cotto committed 00:15
happy times
even if I don't care about American football 00:16
Whiteknight I watch the game but don't really care about it too much
more a criticism of sunday-night television than it is a support of american football
dalek rrot: r43767 | cotto++ | trunk (3 files):
[Austin++] Make pbc_merge also update argument name string constants, plus a test.
 00:22
Whiteknight Urg, packfiles. 00:30
I really can't wait until they're all re-written as PMCs
Coke msg andy my PB login is apparently fubar, so I cannot just comment on the article; the bobby tables sample for coldfusion is better written as <cfqueryparam > - no closing tag is necessary. 00:31
purl Message for andy stored.
Coke cotto: if we didn't install things that didn't work, would we install anything? 00:33
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cotto moot point now 00:36
ash_ NotFound: ping?
NotFound ash_: pong
ash_ i was just looking at winxed, and am curious, is there a reason you hand made your lexer and parser? 00:37
NotFound ash_: just personal preference for hand made recursive descent parsers. 00:38
dalek rrot: r43768 | cotto++ | trunk/compilers/pct/Rules.mak:
[pct] move PCT to a two-step compilation process to simplify dependency
 00:39
NotFound Also, that way is easier (to me) to have a C++ and a self hosted version.
ash_ I have been learning bison/flex recently, so i was just curious if there was a reason you didn't use a tool like that, but C++ compatibility is an issue with both of them 00:40
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#32087), fulltest) at r43767 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (gcc with --optimize) 00:41
NotFound ash_: some time ago I wrote a Z80 assembler with hand made parsing. Later, I wrote another version with bison. After that experience, I decide that I like better hand made ones.
If you are curious: pasmo.speccy.org/ 00:42
dalek TT #1419 closed by cotto++: pbc_merge doesn't correctly merge
TT #1425 closed by cotto++: pbc_merge does not correctly adjust constant offsets for parameter names
ash_ i have been reading the compilers principles techniques and tools book, and it talks about yacc and lex for parsing in its examples, its probably the main reason i am trying to learn bison and flex 00:44
NotFound: cool, i'll go look at that, just to see how you parse stuff in that
NotFound ash_: Have you readed "The Design and Evolution of C++" ?
ash_ not yet, but if you'd recommend it i'll add it to my list of things to read, i was also recommended "Crafting A Compiler" 00:45
NotFound Stroustrup says that people convinced him to write Cfront with yacc et al, and in retrospective he thinks that his initial idea of using recursive descent was better. 00:46
So I'm in a very godd company with my taste ;)
s/godd/good
Of course I recommend it, it has lots of recommendations for language designers. 00:48
And implementors. 00:49
ash_ hmm, okay, i'll definately look into it once i finish these two books 00:50
NotFound BTW, finally I've bought the Nokia N900 :)
Is a very nice toy^hol 00:51
And will be better when we have parrot running on it. 00:53
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Whiteknight everytime i look into the packfile code my head hurts and i get bored and angry 00:57
horrible, horrible
plus, extremely light on the documentation, which complex code needs more of 00:58
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mikehh cotto: compilers/pct/src/ - POST/Node.pbc && Compiler.pbc, PAST/Node.pbc && Compiler.pbc, and PCT/Node.pbc are not under svn control or make clean/realclean 01:00
Coke reminds the perl community about the 2010Q1 grant proposals: 01:07
news.perlfoundation.org/2010/02/201...osals.html
(the grants committee definitely reads your comments.)
Whiteknight rurban doesn't seem to have a good opinion of parrot 01:10
Coke ... given how he left the project, that doesn't surprise me at all. 01:11
It does make me wonder if he knows who is on the grants committee. 01:12
Whiteknight no. but to mention it in an unrelated grant proposal... 01:13
plobsing pge people: why does data_json not work when invoked using "./parrot compilers/data_json/data_json.pbc --target=pir file.json", but does work when used from other PIR programs using compreg? 01:15
Coke The perl6 grant request might also be of interest to folks here.
not every compiler uses PCT? 01:16
me checks data_json; all the renames years ago confuse him still
I don't see that it's using HLLCompiler, plobsing. 01:19
Whiteknight the David Mitchell proposal is impressive
Coke that one's not in the list. URL?
Whiteknight news.perlfoundation.org/2010/02/gra...l5_co.html 01:21
i think its a diffent type of grant
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#32088), fulltest) at r43768 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++ with --optimize) 01:23
mikehh ok enough - need some sleep
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dalek TT #1304 closed by coke++: Parrotcode.org docs show up before parrot.org on web searches 02:54
TT #350 closed by coke++: Move wiki pages over from tpf to trac
TT #776 closed by coke++: segfault in Parrot_str_equal...
cotto good day for closing tickets 02:55
Coke adding svn:ignore -> regen MANIFEST.SKIP 03:02
cotto I already did that. ;)
plobsing on how many pbcs would a nqp-rx based grammar depend? 03:04
dalek rrot: r43769 | cotto++ | trunk/compilers/pct (4 files):
[build] add some svn:ignore properties and remove intermediate pbc files when cleaning
 03:07
rrot: r43770 | cotto++ | trunk/MANIFEST.SKIP:
[MANIFEST] manifest update
cotto plobsing, depends on the grammar 03:09
plobsing maybe it would help if I describe my problem in more detail
I want to get tools/build/nativecall.pir to run from miniparrot (so that it can build parrot's nci interface) 03:10
It is table driven, currently using data_json.
but I don't want to have to generate all of TGE, PGE, and data_json from miniparrot 03:11
and I'd heard that nqp-rx output PIR that was mostly self-sufficient
cotto it is
plobsing so I'm considering writing a JSON parser with nqp-rx 03:12
of course, it'll only be worth the effort if I can use this parser without having to generate half of parrot's runtime libraries 03:13
cotto What's the objection to just checking in the generated src/nci.c and requiring a full parrot build to regenerate it? 03:27
plobsing src/nci.c can change depending on what features parrot is built with 03:29
cotto I didn't know that.
plobsing opengl, for example, enables several hundred signatures 03:31
cotto Why not just enable everything?
plobsing because my ultimate goal is to get rid of those hundreds of mostly-unused signatures 03:33
also because I'm not in the mood for spelunking through parrot's configure system ATM
but I am experiencing some severe head-desk right now 03:36
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Austin_away Cotto: You updated my patch to add another line. Is that in the "Loop over arguments" section directly above? 03:56
Austin Does PaFo have a similar granting system? 04:00
Cotto: Never mind. There's only one similar switch statement (at least in my version) so I assume that's where you added it. 04:01
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cotto Austin, yup 04:34
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dalek tracwiki: v15 | cotto++ | CottoTasklist 05:32
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/CottoTa...ction=diff
mikehh cotto: I got a manifest_tests error with MANIFEST.SKIP - Coke also had this problem - I think it was a leftover from one_make - svn ignore stuff not in trunk 05:48
cotto I committed a regenerated manifest earlier today.
mikehh yeah I know - that is why i commented on it 05:49
cotto oic
It's odd that my checkout has goofy properties. svn-- 05:50
karma svn
purl svn has karma of -7
cotto good
svn-- for being super slow to sync too
dalek rrot: r43771 | mikehh++ | trunk/MANIFEST.SKIP:
Re-generate MANIFEST.SKIP
 05:51
mikehh I tend to do branch testing in different directories so I didn't get the problem
the problem being that svn ignore is ignored by svn so if that changes it still ignores it 05:53
I also tend to do a clean checkout fairly regularly
All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#32090), fulltest) at r43771 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (gcc with --optimize) 06:07
Austin W00t!!! My class has parents. 06:45
Go me. 06:46
What the name for the kind of function passed to sort (e.g.) that compares items? 06:59
cotto comparator? 07:02
cotto wonders if he's making up words
again
Austin That's the conclusion I've been reaching.
sort( comparator: &f ) 07:03
That works.
sort( compare: &f )
That also works.
cotto really wants it to be git time. 07:04
not that an hour to sync a branch with trunk is unreasonable or anything 07:07
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cotto epic sync commit incoming 07:10
kurahaupo ping svn.parrot.org => rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 211.832/212.957/216.780/1.703 ms 07:11
ping parrot.github.com => rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 259.936/260.792/262.497/1.024 ms
svn++
dalek rrot: r43772 | cotto++ | branches/ops_pct (1110 files):
[opsc] sync branch with trunk, most likely breaking something
 07:15
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Austin Woot. Generated accessors. 08:36
dalek rrot: r43773 | cotto++ | branches/ops_pct (12 files):
[opsc] convert opsc to nqp-rx and non-recursive makefiles
 08:37
cotto sounds shiny 08:41
Austin It's pretty freaking sweet if you're using nqp. 08:42
class X { use('P6object'); has( 'foo' ); method blah() { self.foo(1); say(self.foo); } }
nopaste "cotto" at 96.26.227.153 pasted "I don't see any accessors" (62 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/19514 08:47
cotto nm. I suppose they could be generated by the 'has' method 08:48
Austin Heh. You have to be using Kakapo, which extends the P6object suite and compiles the accessors in memory at run time.
You know anything about P6 "try" syntax? 08:49
cotto not at this point in the evening
Austin -rx has a try {...} syntax, but what are the rest of the keywords?
looks like try { CATCH {...} .... } 08:52
kurahaupo wonders if he should give up converting tests to PIR and go for NQP instead? 09:00
Austin Only if you're sure you can write them in nqp. 09:01
I wonder what's the difference between "set $P27['type'], 58" and "setattribute $P27, 'payload', $P28" ? 09:02
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Austin Hmm.. What's the right syntax for "throw" ? 09:05
kurahaupo Austin, who chose the name "Kakapo"? Is there someone else from NZ lurking around here? 09:06
Austin Nope, that was me.
A buddy of mine sent me a video titled "You are being shagged by a rare parrot"
(Which pretty much describes my experience as an HLL developer) 09:07
kurahaupo grep parrot /world/avians | sort --size | tail -1
Austin :)
kurahaupo s/size/weight/
Austin Part of the video - before the bird got dangerously frisky - included the comment that the kakapo looks old-fashioned. 09:08
Since the Kakapo library is old-fashioned (compile, link, run) I figured it was a natural.
Okay, www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T1vfsHYiKY 09:23
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cotto hio bacek. Feel like getting back into opsc? 09:26
bacek cotto, I want to finish gc_encapsulate first (and properly plug Boehm after). It's crucial for Rakudo* 09:27
cotto sure 09:28
09:28 particle joined
bacek seen whiteknight 09:33
purl whiteknight was last seen on #parrot 8 hours, 12 minutes and 19 seconds ago, saying: i think its a diffent type of grant
bacek time to wake up... 09:34
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bacek coverage? 10:58
purl coverage is probably cv.perl6.cz
dalek rrot: r43774 | bacek++ | trunk/src/ops (2 files):
Revert r43414. RetContinuation doesn't kill itself anymore after invoke.
 11:04
TT #1427 created by bacek++: [DEPRECATED] RetContinuation PMC 11:11
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dalek rrot: r43775 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1:
Split gc_encapsulate into smaller steps. Apparently I'm not able to find out why whole lot failing
 12:26
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dalek rrot: r43776 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1 (5 files):
Make callback functions accept explicit Memory_Pools*.
 12:59
kid51 Yippee: Smolder just managed to accept two reports and properly report back results without a timeout 13:13
kid51 wonders how long that will last :=) 13:14
dalek rrot: r43777 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1/src/gc/mark_sweep.c:
Update free_buffer to accept Memory_Pools*
 13:15
rrot: r43778 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1/src/gc (3 files):
Use explicit Memory_Pools* in alloc_resources.c
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dalek rrot: r43779 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1/src/gc (4 files):
Switch mark_sweep functions to use explicit Memory_Pools*.
 13:32
rrot: r43780 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1/src/gc (2 files):
Remove outdated function declarations. src/gc/pools.c was removed long
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dalek rrot: r43781 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1/src/gc (3 files):
Switch src/gc/system.c to use explicit Memory_Pools*
 13:48
rrot: r43782 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1 (3 files):
Remove unused, non-public Parrot_gc_ptr_in_memory_pool function
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bacek whiteknight, aloha! 14:00
whiteknight hello bacek!
I see you've been busy today
bacek tonight... It's 1am already
do you have some box which is not linux/i386 to quick test gc_encapsulate_part1? 14:01
dalek rrot: r43783 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1/src/interp/inter_cb.c:
Copy logic of finding Interpeter for callback from gc_encapsulate branch
 14:05
rrot: r43784 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1 (2 files):
Remove unused, non-public Parrot_gc_ptr_is_pmc function
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dalek rrot: r43785 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1 (2 files):
Remove unused, non-public Parrot_gc_get_pmc_index function
 14:22
rrot: r43786 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1/src/gc/api.c:
Reorganize functions in src/gc/api.c to move attributes allocation close
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Coke I can answer the question about PaFo's grants if it's still on the table. 14:43
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Coke There is the possibility to do grants via the PaFo, but: 1) we do not have a steady stream of donations, corporate or otherwise at the moment. 2) we don't have a grants committee, nor a formal grant process; IIRC, it would basically be the board voting on disbursement. 15:46
bacek: testing your part1 branch on strawberry now. 15:54
bacek: all tests pass. (but strawberry using ming under the covers, so this may not be as interesting a platform as you might care about.) 15:55
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NotFound pbc_merge is breaking c++ build 16:04
Maybe only in 64 bits 16:05
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NotFound Who is working in pbc_merge? 16:18
Coke you can tell with the branch status tool! 16:19
(but I think cotto)
NotFound It's comparing a char with 0x200 16:20
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Coke trac-- 16:23
NotFound: oh, this is on trunk. 16:24
?
yah, prolly cotto.
I have regen'd trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/BranchDescriptions though. =-)
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NotFound Coke: NM, cretaing a ticket. 16:30
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Coke NotFound++ 16:31
NotFound Why trac says that the ticket is owned by dukeleto? 16:33
dalek rrot: r43787 | mikehh++ | branches/gc_encapsulate_part1/src/gc/api.c:
fix codetest failure - line length
 16:35
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dalek tracwiki: v25 | coke++ | BranchDescriptions 16:39
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/BranchD...ction=diff
whiteknight bacek: I'll test first on OpenSolaris/x86, then Win32/x86. I have to do x64 testing at home tonight 16:42
dalek TT #1428 created by NotFound++: pbc_merge breaks c++ build 16:44
whiteknight fperrad: ping 16:45
mikehh gc_encapsulate_part1 branch: 16:47
All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#32106), fulltest) at r43787 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
whiteknight purl msg fperrad How do I use setup.pir to create a dynops library? Do you have an example of that for me to see?
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whiteknight bacek: do we need to run all tests, or is coretest sufficient? 17:02
mikehh NotFound: it builds for me at r43787 on Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 g++ with --optimize 17:09
whiteknight coretest is good on opensolaris/x86 (minus the tests we fail there anyway)
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NotFound mikehh: fails for me with or without optimize 17:13
mikehh NotFound: let me try without --optimize 17:14
fperrad pong Whiteknight 17:16
see github.com/TiMBuS/fun/blob/master/setup.pir
or github.com/fperrad/wmlscript/blob/m.../setup.pir
whiteknight fperrad++
NotFound gcc version 4.3.2 (Debian 4.3.2-1.1)
whiteknight fperrad: is it possible to use multiple .ops files together? 17:18
fperrad Whiteknight, it's a hash, so you could create several dynops (but one .ops file produces one dynops shared lib) 17:24
whiteknight gotcha
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mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#32107), fulltest) at r43787 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++ with --optimize) 17:27
NotFound: g++ (Ubuntu 4.4.1-4ubuntu9) 4.4.1 17:29
NotFound Bizarre 17:33
mikehh I get: 17:35
src/pbc_merge.c: In function ‘void pbc_merge_ctpointers(parrot_interp_t*, pbc_merge_input**, int, PackFile_ByteCode*)’:
src/pbc_merge.c:664: warning: case label value exceeds maximum value for type
but it doesn't generate an error
generate
NotFound Anyway, is a bug. 17:36
Don't know what is the correct result according the standard, but the code is wrong. If it can handle that value, having it is confusing. If it must handle it but can't, is a serious problem. 17:38
mikehh NotFound: yes - when fixed we need a test to catch it - All tests PASS at the moment 17:39
Coke NotFound: if you have any input on my just-now mail to -ev, I'd appreciate it.
er, -dev
NotFound Coke: looking
Coke basically trying to avoid as much work as possible. =-) 17:40
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Coke (if we need to support the full range of features we have no, I can cope.) 17:42
NotFound Last message I have is from fperrad
Coke "eliminating CFLAGS" 17:43
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dukeleto 'ello 17:49
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#32109), fulltest) at r43787 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++) 17:53
whiteknight what does ** mean in P6 regex? 17:57
Coke feather.perl6.nl/syn/S05.html (there's a whole section starting with "the general repetition specifier is now **"... 17:58
(it depends on what comes after it.) 17:59
number or range == count of matches, literal or subrule, it's a separator.
whiteknight [ <statement> | <?> ] ** ';'
I'm trying to figure out what that means
Coke there, it's a separator. 18:00
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Coke so it's any number of statements, separated by a semicolon. 18:00
whiteknight okay
so what is <?>
Coke whiteknight: also in S05 - match a null string
whiteknight gotcha
Coke++ 18:01
Coke whee!\\
(I keep mentioning S05 because that's wehere I'm looking this up right before I talk. =-)
whiteknight ok
Coke I still don't remember any of the new syntax for more than 10m. =-) 18:02
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Coke bobby-tables.com/, Andy++ 18:08
NotFound Coke: don't get that message yet
Coke NotFound: odd.
Andy Thanks.
Coke ah well. I'm not going to write any code for a bit, so just reply when it shows up. =-) 18:09
NotFound Coke: maybe I'm too distracted playing with my new phone X-)
Coke Andy: I had to double check to make sure that it only said email when I emailed. =-)
NotFound Now I understand why they are called smartphones. It won me at chess. 18:10
Coke ponders writing a fluxx game in some HLL targetting parrot. 18:11
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Coke NotFound: the thrust was: do we really need all the exceptions in ./CFLAGS 18:20
(because I can avoid having to recreate all this work at config time, awesome.)
*if I.. 18:21
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NotFound Coke: I'd like to kill all that shit. Unfortunately, bison and flex generated code will generate lots of warnings without it. 18:25
Coke right. one my questions was whether a clean build was worth it. 18:26
whoa. tried to find out out who added the not about tsq never optimizing. it was brentax in r5583
(when CFLAGS.in was created) 18:27
NotFound I like to have a clean build. And it avoids scaring new people at his first build. 18:30
Worth the price of a few seconds. 18:31
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Austin Coke: (re: grants) thanks 18:46
Coke That reminds me, I should consider hitting up my consulting company to donate a few grand. 18:55
(might be easier once we are a not-for-profit) 18:56
whiteknight: danke. 19:03
whiteknight we aren't not-for-profit? 19:04
Coke we are on the path. there's paperwork needs fillin' 19:06
(plus it costs $$ to file)
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cotto_working includes some thoughts on llvm: blog.paulbiggar.com/archive/a-rant-...articular/ 19:51
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ash_ cotto: interesting read, i mostly read the stuff linked to by the unladen swallow developers 20:07
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bacek o hai 20:45
mikehh hi bacek 20:52
dukeleto o hai
whiteknight bacek: I have a present for you: github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-hacke...mchack.pmc 20:54
take a look at the method "force_gc_destroy" at the bottom, for extra fun
whiteknight was looking for ways to be evil today 20:57
cotto_working Nice PMC there, but I notice it's missing the "segfault" method.
whiteknight cotto_working: I have plenty more methods to add still
cotto_working I'm sure you do.
whiteknight and I have a few more PMC types to add too
cotto_working Do you have an intended use for all that evil? 20:58
whiteknight cotto_working: yes and no. 20:59
cotto_working purl, yes and no
purl Go not to the mst for counsel, for he shall say both no and yes. also, breadsticks.
whiteknight I don't have a particular use for it, just idle curiosity
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whiteknight would really help with some types of debugging to be able to access internal-only data from PIR programs 21:00
plus in a Lorito world, we're going to need to provide much lower access to the API, so I want to explore that 21:01
One thing I really wanted to explore was indirect op dispatch 21:02
Imagine one op that took an opnumber as it's first parameter and a variadic argument list as it's second
or, better yet, an ability to put in a op name and get an opnumber in return. Useful for PBC compilers written completely in PIR 21:03
dukeleto whiteknight: sounds cool 21:05
cotto_working You could hack up an OpInfo PMC to be an interface to interp->op_info 21:06
whiteknight cotto_working: exactly. I'm planning to prototype that
cotto_working That sounds shiny.
whiteknight Personally, I'm of the smalltalk school of thought: everything should be an object
cotto_working whiteknight++
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whiteknight which has the benefit that if most of our ops become objects or methods on objects, out opset shrinks very naturally, and we can focus all optimization on the method dispatch hotpath 21:07
but this is pie-in-the-sky rambling
cotto_working That's the second best kind of pie. 21:10
NotFound whiteknight: also, makes far easy to acess low-level parrot from object oriented HLLs. You just need to instantiate some object and call methods on it. 21:19
dukeleto cotto_working: key lime pie is first best, no? 21:20
cotto_working That is the subject of intense and divisive debate. I think it's best not to get into it here.
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dukeleto cotto_working: you are correct. everyone's happiness pie is different 21:21
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Austin "I'm on a horse." - This commercial should have been on the Superbowl. 21:44
www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE
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Infinoid Austin: hah, awesome 21:55
Austin "I'm on a horse."
Infinoid That is a compelling argument.
cotto_working I don't want to smell girly. Please tell me what I can buy to prevent that.
Austin "It's an oyster with two tickets to that thing you love" 21:57
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ash_ "I'am on a horse" is probably the best part IMO 22:17
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Austin whiteknight: You may appreciate this, being in the embedded biz: news.discovery.com/tech/toyota-reca...-code.html 22:29
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