Summer of Perl | 6.2.12 released! | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | pugscode.org | pugs.kwiki.org
Set by ingy on 4 July 2006.
00:25 Steve_p joined 00:26 hikozaemon joined 00:28 ruoso joined 00:31 dmsantam joined
dmsantam omg.. are we _all_ waiting for perl6?! 00:31
SamB no 00:32
dmsantam phew!
so what are we all doing here
SamB well, many people are working on it and talking about it and stuff
00:33 ludan joined
SamB probably more have stopped working on it but never took the channel off their auto-join list... 00:33
dmsantam oh ok :)
Steve_p Some come and go and so on... 00:34
dmsantam 6.2.12 is released?
(topic)
Steve_p pugs 6.2.12 was released 00:35
For lack of a better term, its a prototype.
dmsantam OH.. yes, the haskell thing 00:36
:)
Steve_p dmsantam: yep 00:38
dmsantam :)
00:43 bsb joined
ivanfrey I can't seem to subscribe to [email@hidden.address] Do I send mail to [email@hidden.address] 00:55
As quoted on the pugcode.org home page. 00:56
mugwump List-Subscribe: <mailto:perl6-compiler-subscribe@perl.org>
check that your envelope from matches your From:
I have a vague recollection of that being required 00:57
ivanfrey mugwump: Hmmmmmm, how do I subscribe my address at the University of Toronto, I don't use my ISP address for anything. 00:59
01:00 Administrator joined
mugwump ivanfrey: are you getting bounces back? 01:03
audreyt: what did you use to colorize your perl6 ? 01:04
ivanfrey mugwump: I've got one bounce back, which I deleted. I've attempted to subscribe again, but it obviously isn't getting through so it'll get bounced when the retry period timesout. 01:05
mugwump: maybe I'll setup a different identity in Thunderbird to handle this situation. So my From has to match the from on the envelope? 01:07
When I'm in cpan interactive mode, the text is in a awful lime green colour. 01:08
mugwump like I said, it's a vague recollection. perhaps the bounce will be more informative. 01:09
maybe you still have it, if you haven't compacted your mailbox?
ivanfrey mugwump: I'll wait for the second bounce. I'm always compacting my Inbox. 01:11
mugwump finds perl6.vim
01:13 dmsantam joined 01:31 scook0 joined
svnbot6 r11427 | markstos++ | simple typo fix 01:31
r11428 | fglock++ | v6 - 'use v5; xxx; use v6;' 01:37
01:42 mdiep joined
svnbot6 r11429 | fglock++ | v6 - Perl6Prelude - inlined perl 5 code in sleep() and exit() with 'use v5' 01:46
01:47 dmsantam joined 01:50 aufrank joined 01:56 aufrank left, aufrank joined 01:59 aufrank left 02:00 aufrank joined, Bit-Man joined
audreyt mugwump: VimColor on cpan 02:13
mugwump audreyt: cool, thanks 02:19
audreyt np :)
bbiab... & 02:20
02:21 dmsantam joined 02:38 tup joined 02:48 justatheory joined 03:00 xinming joined 03:08 xinming joined 03:10 tup joined 03:20 tup joined 03:22 xinming1983 joined 03:24 weinig is now known as weinig|zzz 03:31 frederico joined
Daveman Greetings, all. 03:52
audreyt greetings. 03:56
03:58 pingu is now known as cdhotpingu
nothingmuch greetings 04:01
i can't believe i just said that
audreyt why not? 04:02
obra could be worse
you could have said 'gleetings'
ivanfrey I'm still having problems building pugs. I try run ranlib on libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a and libHSpugs-fps-0.7.a, but the make process just recreates them all over again. 04:11
oh! My bad again the make process is probably copying it from the original in dist/build. 04:12
nothingmuch because "greetings" is a geek greeting 04:18
i try to be a little less "technical" than that
you might as well say "i greet you"
for me the how is important
;-)
obra nothingmuch! I greet you! 04:20
nothingmuch obra: hi!
ivanfrey No, I ran ranlib on both copies ./third-party/HsSyck/dist/build/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a and ./third-party/installed/lib/pugs-HsSyck-0.1/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a, but I'm still requests to run ranlib on them. 04:22
audreyt: I think I have to run those alternative setup commands which I have forgotten. Why does the build process quit with third-party/HsSyck/../installed/lib/pugs-HsSyck-0.1/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a and pugs-fps-0.7/libHSpugs-fps-0.7.a have no table of contents when I've run ranlib on them. 04:29
audreyt ivanfrey: hm, check output from "make" on those two sections? 04:30
ivanfrey: or give me a shell to debug 04:31
ivanfrey I have mac os x.
What username do you want?
audreyt audreyt
cp -Rf the entire pugs/ to my home 04:32
obra I saw -Rf and did not see "cp"
aufrank audreyt and ivanfrey: I've had this problem too. my fix has been to open a second terminal and run ranlib on the libraries in thirdparty/installed/ as soon as they're generated 04:34
audreyt wow
aufrank I also have to do make under sudo because the install part of Setup.hs needs sudo priveleges 04:35
audreyt and this is 6.4.2
or 6.4.1?
ivanfrey audreyt: in the mac os x case it's still 6.4.1.
aufrank I'm osx 10.3.9 and ghc 6.4.1 04:36
there's still a link on the ghc page that says binaries for osx for 6.4.2 are coming soon
ivanfrey aufrank: Hey that's mine platform too. 04:37
aufrank hooray for corner cases ;)
audreyt ivanfrey: I think I fixed it 04:38
try r1140 04:39
11430
ivanfrey audreyt: You'll need a password on my system. I guess I'll need to generate a key so that you send your password to me encrypted
aufrank audreyt: I dropped in and reported this sometime around preflight-0, but didn't stick around to see if it got worked on. Happy coincidence that I'm here now :P
audreyt ivanfrey: try it first :)
aufrank: well, better late than never, etc :)
svnbot6 r11430 | audreyt++ | * build_pugs.pl: ranlib for third-party.
audreyt aufrank: can you try it too?
ivanfrey audreyt: how do install 11430? 04:40
audreyt ivanfrey: did you not have a subversion checkout of pugs?
"svn up" in it will do
aufrank audreyt: still with sudo make for cabal?
audreyt if you don't, "svn co svn.openfoundry.org/pugs" will get you one
lambdabot Title: "Revision 11391: /"
audreyt aufrank: try chown everything including ~/.ghc* to yourself 04:41
aufrank: and try not run as root
just "make"
audreyt sighs as this bug is already gone in GHC 6.4.2
maybe I should take up the releng mantle from wolfgang for GHC-OSX.
...or maybe not.
aufrank you've got a bleeding ghc on your macbook, eh? 04:42
audreyt yeah, wouldn't run on macintel otherwise
aufrank bleeding-edge, I guess I meant
audreyt obra has a macppc
so if forced I guess I can releng on that
but first try the r11430 fix :) 04:43
compiling GHC on this macbook is fine
aufrank on it, but I won't have results for sure until this morning ;)
audreyt on a G4... I don't look forward to it.
aufrank I mean, tomorrow morning
audreyt aufrank: "make optimized" is like 10x faster.
er
ivanfrey audreyt: do i have to rerun perl Makefile.PL?
audreyt "make unoptimized"
ivanfrey: prolly not
just "make" again
ivanfrey I have a G4 and I don't think make takes more than a hour. though I could be wrong. 04:45
obra audreyt also, I have a G5 04:47
just with too little ram
ivanfrey audreyt: make just failed again with those libraries. I'm running perl Makefile.PL. 04:48
audreyt ivanfrey: wait
that's not going to help :) give me a sec
try svn up again 04:50
svnbot6 r11431 | audreyt++ | * add some instrumentation
r11430 | audreyt++ | * build_pugs.pl: ranlib for third-party.
audreyt you should see instrumentation messages beginning in =======>
if not, something's wrong
ivanfrey: btw, if you are cutting me an account, put this as my ~/.ssh/authorized_keys 04:51
ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAIEA6y9P6+Kj9Gje1HskSthYiiypE1fgOQDAOUjtJ3yFL2bpFDbYhBIYS8E1cxWhNXO81y7kP06q/Ygy6VBjSFECsi957I90TNqpv3wG9ZizNnTeFQBiY/cfD/0e9iXPphgVThvUX1pMmDhHgrvMVDVaYhE45KcObdyxNXWrEVP8Jn0= [email@hidden.address]
(also at paste.husk.org/6214 ) 04:52
aufrank you really get around the various paste services, audreyt ;) 04:53
links from every which way!
audreyt :)
aufrank ivanfrey: how far did you get in compiling before your build failed? 04:54
which component of pugs was building? 04:55
ivanfrey audreyt: *** Building: util/runcompiler -hide-all-packages -package stm -package network -package mtl -package template-haskell -package base -package pugs-fps -package pugs-HsSyck -package unix -package readline -package plugins -package haskell-src -idist/build -Ldist/build -idist/build/src -Ldist/build/src -o pugs src/Main.hs -lHSPugs-6.2.12 -threaded -optl-I/sw/include -optl-fno-common -optc-DPERL_DARWIN -op 04:56
tl-no-cpp-precomp -optl-fno-strict-aliasing -optl-pipe -optl-I/usr/local/include -L/sw/lib -L/usr/local/lib -L/opt/local/lib -L/sw/lib/perl5-core/5.8.6/darwin-thread-multi-2level/CORE -lperl -ldl -lm -lc /sw/lib/perl5-core/5.8.6/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a
compilation IS NOT required
ld: archive: /Users/ivanfrey/dev/pugs/third-party/HsSyck/../installed/lib/pugs-HsSyck-0.1/libHSpugs-HsSyck-0.1.a has no table of contents, add one with ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
ld: archive: /Users/ivanfrey/dev/pugs/third-party/fps/../installed/lib/pugs-fps-0.7/libHSpugs-fps-0.7.a has no table of contents, add one with ranlib(1) (can't load from it)
Build failed: 256 at util/build_pugs.pl line 237.
make: *** [pugs] Error 2
aufrank ivanfrey: thanks 04:57
ivanfrey: for big pastes, you might want to check out the website listed in the topic for this channel
keeps the room clean ;)
ivanfrey aufrank: sorry about that.
aufrank no biggie 04:58
audreyt: are you in the post-hackathon secret hackathon yet?
obra looks around.
Is this secret?
aufrank s/secret/double extra top secret/ 04:59
04:59 cdhotpingu is now known as pingu
aufrank I'm on to you, obra ;) 05:00
obra Good thing too. 05:01
I almost got away with it
ivanfrey audreyt: In the ssh-rsa key above, the [email@hidden.address] is not part of the key? 05:03
audreyt ivanfrey: it is
ivanfrey: in any case, if you "svn up" now
and run "make"
do you not see the "===>" instrumentation messages? 05:04
aufrank audreyt: I failed on 11431, and I did see the messages about ar following the fat arrows 05:05
audreyt aufrank: ok. nopaste or paste those lines?
ivanfrey audreyt: Yeah, I saw them, but the build still failed. 05:06
mdiep cwest: ping
audreyt nvm, I got the bug 05:07
aufrank sorry, box is especially slow right now
svnbot6 r11432 | audreyt++ | * fix typo in build_pugs; ranlib should work now. 05:08
audreyt r11432 should Really Work (tm)
ivanfrey audreyt: I'll have to port forward ssh. What is the port #?
audreyt ivanfrey: try r11432 first :) 05:09
the port # is 22
svnbot6 r11433 | audreyt++ | * run-smoke: use v6, not pilrun, for "make smoke-perl5"
audreyt "svn up" and "make" should really work. hacker's honour :) 05:10
aufrank I'll hold you to that... somehow
ivanfrey audreyt: I'm doing a svn up now. sounds like it's finished. 05:11
aufrank I failed again here on r11433 05:12
audreyt aww, no
audreyt ponders seppuku
aufrank nah, you just owe me a beer
that's hacker's honor, right? "if this breaks, I owe you a cold one" 05:13
ivanfrey Revision 11433 I didn't see any instrumentation messages.
audreyt no, "if this breaks, you get to keep both pieces"
svnbot6 r11434 | audreyt++ | * oy. back to instrumentation
audreyt ivanfrey: but does the build fail?
aufrank: r11434, with instrumentation again
aufrank: this is in utils/build_pugs 05:14
line 76
the idea is to run $ar the time as you'd run ranlib
aufrank: so maybey ou can help debugging it so it does the same thing
I wonder if $ar is not found or something
ivanfrey audreyt: yeah, it failed here.
gaal morning
audreyt looks to aufrank for debugging help
aufrank I can't guarantee that my strategy was going to work this time... it worked on preflights, though
audreyt aufrank: it havn't been changed afaics
aufrank I was partway through a build using my previous strategy when we started debugging 05:15
audreyt: that is when I was running ranlib, it's in the right place 05:16
audreyt so I suspect $ar isn't right 05:17
or something. please help :)
aufrank I can tell you that I had been doing sudo ranlib
but I can't tell you if that was making a difference 05:18
audreyt try and see?
kinda hoping that you can tweak line 76 in utils/build_pugs until it works :)
(and keep "make unoptimised")
aufrank audreyt: I am not seeing line 79 in my output 05:20
for either lib 05:21
audreyt: maybe one too many levels of subdirectories in your glob? 05:22
ok, think I got it now 05:24
I'll check it in if it finishes
audreyt: leave the STDERR messages in or not? 05:25
we have a winner
audreyt leave it out
yay
aufrank++ aufrank++ ivanfrey++
05:26 lollan joined 05:28 jkanter joined
svnbot6 r11435 | aufrank++ | fixed directory glob for running ranlib in thirdparty. worked for me. 05:28
audreyt whre.
whew.
aufrank what's a /*/ between friends 05:29
ivanfrey audreyt: ok, you have an admin account here. I've copied the pugs subversion repository to your ~/public/Drop\ Box/ . 05:31
audreyt danke 05:33
ivanfrey: but aufrank just fixed it for you :)
ivanfrey audreyt: but I am in the process of trying 11435. 05:34
audreyt that's the fix 05:35
svnbot6 r11436 | audreyt++ | * build_pugs.pl: chase Cabal build directory depths
aufrank audreyt: it looks like I may be making a trip to .tw or .cn within the next 6 months or so
05:36 Aankhen`` joined
audreyt hm, glob() in scalar context is iterator in perl5 05:36
svnbot6 r11437 | audreyt++ | * err, typo.
r11438 | audreyt++ | * another typo
audreyt I've just found something scary about perl5
print $
#################
# this is crazy # 05:37
#################
ARGV[0];
ivanfrey audreyt: do I gather. But the account is for any other debugging issue that might come up, whether or not I'm around or not. My computer is usually connected to the net 24/7 unless I've taken it to Italy.
audreyt # valid under warnings and strict
ivanfrey: okay. thanks!
aufrank: verify I didn't undo your work as of r11438?
(I may need to sleep soon)
ivanfrey I just finished an optimised build. 05:38
audreyt yay. 05:39
aufrank audreyt: just a sec
ivanfrey audreyt: but there are a number of warnings.
audreyt: how do I check my current version 05:40
audreyt: or revision, I mean. 05:41
audreyt ivanfrey: ./puvs -v |grep r
ivanfrey: ./puvs -v |grep Version
or "svn info"
but it's getting late... 05:45
good night, see you tomorrow :)
aufrank audreyt: if I've done a sudo make install, I get permission errors during Setup on fps and HsSyck. if I chown everything back to myself I build with no problems.
audreyt aufrank: problem is "sudo make install" did not preserve perms
for the deps
aufrank: I don't quite know how to fix it 05:46
aufrank yeah
audreyt maybe probe for owner and "su" back
or seteuid
or something
would be lovely if you or rafl or someone can give it some thought :) 05:47
audreyt waves &
aufrank bye! 05:49
ivanfrey 11438 runs! 05:50
aufrank ok, I'm off now too 05:54
glad your system's up, ivanfrey
05:54 Aankhen`` joined, xinming1983 joined, tup joined, cognominal joined, SamB joined, mauke joined, nothingmuch joined, Khisanth joined, unobe joined, obra joined, TimToady joined, amv joined, drbean joined, pjcj joined, jiing joined, Odin- joined, clkao joined, QtPlatypus joined, baest joined, nperez joined, rafl joined, notsri_ joined, meppl joined
ivanfrey aufrank: what are the incantations for running and uploading the Smoke tests 05:55
aufrank make smoke runs the suite and generates the report 05:57
I don't know about uploading
audreyt make upload-smoke 05:58
aufrank we're craft that way
s/craft/crafty/
05:59 r0nny joined
svnbot6 r11439 | audreyt++ | * mmd-draft.txt: Deal with union types correctly. Note that 05:59
r11439 | audreyt++ | it's not "junctional" anymore.
06:03 elmex joined
pasteling "ivanfrey" at 72.136.69.198 pasted "Problem with Task::Smoke" (22 lines, 833B) at sial.org/pbot/18306 06:04
ivanfrey Goodnight all. I feel like a crack addict. 06:05
06:10 Administrator joined
audreyt try 06:23
cpan Test::TAP::Model Test::TAP::HTMLMatrix
06:28 iblechbot joined 07:16 kolibrie joined 07:21 ludan joined 07:37 mjk joined
gaal ivanfrey: if you like, you can also edit config.yml and have make smoke upload results automatically from now on. 07:45
nothingmuch: ping 07:46
08:08 mauke_ joined 08:17 SM_ax joined 08:33 mauke_ is now known as mauke 08:36 drrho joined 08:41 tup joined 08:48 bsb joined 08:59 lumi joined 09:04 Revision17 joined 09:13 b_jonas joined 09:15 daxim joined 09:20 kanru joined 09:51 johan_ joined 09:54 bsb left 10:53 Jedai joined 11:03 nothingmuch joined 12:04 nxu7 joined
svnbot6 r11440 | clkao++ | Fix --exclude for smoke-perl5. 12:22
12:22 bpphillips joined
svnbot6 r11441 | clkao++ | Set PERL5LIB for smoke-perl5 to use blib6/pugs/perl5/lib and arch. 12:25
12:40 nothingmuch joined 12:47 stevan joined, vel joined 12:54 tup joined 13:05 Limbic_Region joined
Limbic_Region anyone know what all this ghc.exe: file `s' does not exist is all about? 13:10
13:14 frederico joined
nothingmuch morning 13:14
Jedai hello 13:15
svnbot6 r11442 | jedai++ | fix ewamples/qotw/008r/qa.pl
13:19 fglock joined
svnbot6 r11443 | fglock++ | v6 - fixed infinite loops in Term parsing 13:21
r11443 | fglock++ | - Inf, NaN
clkao wow, we passed 8 more tests than yesterday 13:22
fglock: 13:23
t/builtins/strings/split.t
t/oo/traits/parameterized.t
t/statements/while.t
t/subroutines/multidimensional_arglists.t
t/subroutines/subroutine.t
these are the tests hanging
fglock clkao: I did a few fixes - I'll try them again 13:27
meppl guten morgen 13:32
clkao fglock: with latest v6 it goes out of memory compiling test.pm 13:34
13:34 weinig|zzz is now known as weinig|work
fglock clkao: ok - I'll check 13:35
13:43 christopher joined 13:45 prefiks joined 13:49 iblechbot joined 13:51 archangle25 joined
archangle25 how do i get a date in yyyy-mm-dd format into seconds from epoch!? 13:53
fglock clkao: it compiles for me if I remove part of the pod - I'll try to optimize memory usage
13:54 xern joined
Limbic_Region archangle25 - this is a perl 6 channel, I think you probably want #perl 13:54
if you are using perl 5 - the answer is using POSIX 'strftime'
oh, oops
misread - if in perl5 - you probably want a regex and Time::Local
but really, this channel is for perl 6 13:55
archangle25 Limbic_Region, ty, but i made a booboo a while back and sent an amsg to my channels and got banned from #perl, how do i get unbanned!?
Limbic_Region *shrug* - dunno, I have never made the mistake of getting banned 13:57
my guess would be to find someone willing to lobby on your behalf
or send a /msg to an op (if you know who any are)
13:58 xinming joined
bpphillips archangle25: perlmonks.org is a good place to ask those types of questions as well (and may already have the answers you're looking for in previous posts) 13:58
Limbic_Region oh yeah, perlmonks.org isn't IRC but it is hands down the best place to get help with perl 14:00
lumi Doth anyone know anything about ghc packages and why they don't want my pugs to build?
14:01 rzoz joined
Limbic_Region lumi - you are on Win32 right 14:01
? 14:02
lumi Limbic_Region: Nope. Mac
Limbic_Region interesting
here is something you can try - it works around the problem for me on Win32 though it is definately not a proper fix
copy the entire gcc-lib directory from your GHC root to your pugs root and try again (after a make realclean) 14:03
if it is the same problem - it will work 14:04
the reason being a recent change from using ghc in to util/runcompiler
speaking of which
rafl ping
14:05 hcarty joined
lumi Thanks, we'll see what transpires :) 14:05
lumi &
14:09 scw_ joined
lumi I had to unregister fps-0.7 and now it's happy 14:09
Limbic_Region how did you unregister fps-0.7? 14:11
Limbic_Region would like to try that as well
14:14 justatheory joined
svnbot6 r11444 | fglock++ | added misc/pX/fglock/Pugs-Compiler-Rule 14:14
r11445 | fglock++ | rm Pugs-Compiler-Rule/temp 14:17
14:23 scw_ is now known as scw 14:36 kanru joined 15:00 chris2 joined 15:02 rashakil left
kolibrie TimToady: are your YAPC Perl 6 Update talk slides online? 15:06
Limbic_Region does anyone know how to "[10:09] <lumi> I had to unregister fps-0.7 and now it's happy" ? 15:10
IOW - unregister fps-0.7
15:11 kanru joined
kolibrie Limbic_Region: it's something like: ghc-pkg unregister fps 15:12
or perhaps ghc-pkg unregister --user fps
doing ghc-pkg list 15:13
will show you where you fps packages reside
15:13 buetow joined
clkao fglock: but it used to work correctly. did you change something ? 15:14
Limbic_Region kolibrie - playing now - thanks for the pointers
kolibrie Limbic_Region: just passing along what audreyt told me last week 15:15
fglock clkao: maybe the prelude is using up additional ram? 15:18
15:18 cls_bsd joined
fglock clkao: I'm making some progress on PCR - it should allocate less strings in the next version 15:19
clkao no, i up'ed to before prelude 15:21
it's the compile phase, should have nothing to do with prelude 15:22
svnbot6 r11446 | daxim++ | added tests for Math::Basic rounding suite
r11445 | fglock++ | rm Pugs-Compiler-Rule/temp
clkao when is the nxxt version merging back ? ;)
15:24 Jedai joined
Limbic_Region kolibrie - thanks but no cigar 15:27
lumi's mac problem isn't the same as my Win32 problem
kolibrie Limbic_Region: :( 15:28
Limbic_Region *shrug* - I have a work around audreyt plus plus so it isn't that big of a deal 15:29
it would just be nice to know why it isn't working but rafl never seems to be around
and audreyt says I should blame rafl
15:30 xinming joined 15:33 fglock joined
fglock clkao: my irc client died - out of ram :) 15:34
clkao orz
svnbot6 r11448 | fglock++ | px/fglock/PCR - passes t/01-iterator_engine.t 15:40
fglock bbiab 15:41
15:42 Yappo joined 15:44 rgs joined 15:46 rgs joined
daxim time pugs/pugs -e'"hello world!".say' ----> real 0m38.361s 15:48
mauke real 0m1.964s 15:51
daxim :(
15:54 kudra joined
gaal daxim: please ls blib6/lib and see if there's a Prelude.pm there 15:55
kudra audrey: are you around?
gaal also, did you 'make unoptimized'?
kudra: moose!
kudra just said hi to you in the other window, gaal :)
gaal we're too fast for each other :) 15:56
daxim no, there's no Prelude.pm. I made with default target, i.e. optimised
kudra I thought you were jet lagged. And I feel like I'm jet lagged.
gaal daxim: type 'make' again and see if it's created? 15:57
daxim ok, this will take some time.
gaal shouldn
't
because the haskell targets are already built. 15:58
there'll be a relink and some precompilation.
s/(Prelude.pm)/$1.yml/ above 15:59
gotta run, bye& 16:07
16:07 takesako joined 16:08 Provito is now known as Prov 16:09 nothingmuch joined 16:18 cjeris joined, ludan joined 16:19 amnesiac joined 16:31 frederico joined 16:38 stephanepayrard_ joined 16:39 snowstalker joined 16:41 kudra left 16:49 Aankhen`` joined, mako132 joined 16:51 ruoso joined
TimToady kolibrie: weren't my slides--they were TheDamian's... 16:52
kolibrie oh, does he have them online?
TimToady dunno 16:53
kolibrie :(
kolibrie is trying to build excitement for Perl 6 at $work 16:54
TreyHarris who is the list moderator for p6-l? 16:55
ah, nevermind, i guess my other address has posting privileges as well 16:59
svnbot6 r11451 | audreyt++ | * 02-28-parrot.pod, kudra's correction. 17:07
r11452 | audreyt++ | * add links to RT tickets; C<> 17:15
clkao win 23 17:19
nothingmuch: moose
nothingmuch: so, i want some comments from tap to be captured by perhaps a subclass of tap::model 17:20
nothingmuch: can you make that happen?
nothingmuch clkao: comments?
diag() output? 17:21
clkao like diag
nothingmuch they are already captured
clkao with special formats
nothingmuch and attached to the last subtest
clkao (!)
nothingmuch: i love you
nothingmuch if the diag output is emitted before any subtest it's orphanned
and special cased in the output as a grey square
=-)
clkao so it's accessible by the model?
what do you use it fo ?
nothingmuch mouseover in the html matrix will display the diag 17:22
svnbot6 r11454 | audreyt++ | * fix L<>.
nothingmuch just so you can know why stuff failed
17:23 hexmode joined 17:25 shachaf joined
nothingmuch audreyt: trying ritalin 17:31
audreyt nothingmuch: have fun
nothingmuch wish me luck
got many small stuff
how fast am I supposed to feel it? 17:32
audreyt around 10~20mins
nothingmuch okay
nothingmuch will try to pay attention and see what actually happens
audreyt the first 5 mins may feel uncomfortable (light coughing, etc) as your system is not used to it
but it should be okay afterwards.
nothingmuch okay
any nausea involved? 17:33
audreyt if any, very light, and only in the first few mins
but YMMV
nothingmuch yes 17:34
Limbic_Region has taken adderall before but isn't sure how close it is to ritalin chemically
audreyt adderall is time-released but pretty much the same thing, iirc 17:35
Limbic_Region really didn't notice the effects except when it induced hyper-focusing 17:37
audreyt ...and when you are hyper focusing you didn't notice these things anyway 17:38
17:38 weinig|work is now known as weinig
Limbic_Region not during no - after 17:39
SamB are we talking about for people with ADD or not? 17:40
Limbic_Region mostly though I think I have already developed patterns of behavior that keep my tendencies (not officially diagnosed) in check
stevan ADD? where? ... sorry I was not paying attention
Limbic_Region: I am the same way, $work dictates that I context switch easily and frequently
nothingmuch audreyt: Pod::Simple::Text is good for a base class? 17:41
svnbot6 r11456 | fglock++ | px/fglock/PCR - more tests
Limbic_Region stevan - well, having read "Driven To Distraction" I realized that if I did have ADD, I always have had it and developed ways to balance it early on
SamB I've ADD 17:42
stevan Limbic_Region: I scored higher on the "Do you have ADD" test then most of all my exam scores in high school :)
Limbic_Region though I almost did flunk out of HS, never matriculated into college, and have not been able to have a serious relationship until recently (we just had our 2 year anniversary)
stevan - is this one you get off the net or one administered by a psychological professional?
stevan SamB: welcome :)
nothingmuch SamB: audrey, stevan, Alias, ingy and shapr are all fairly certain I have ADD
stevan Limbic_Region: admined by a pro :)
SamB I dunno what "balance" means
nothingmuch so i am trying ritalin to see if it makes me work better
and if it does, i'll go see a doctor 17:43
Limbic_Region was rather peturbed by said individual when they wanted to just start treating me to "see what happens" without having administered such a test
audreyt nothingmuch: yeah P::S::T
SamB where are you that you can do it that way?
nothingmuch since that is the logical way to do this stuff, especially with brain chemistry drugs ;-)
stevan and if he has a seizure, I will take him to the hospital around the corner :)
Limbic_Region: it is heavily over-diagnosed these days
audreyt ritalin at 10mg does _not_ induce seizure :)
stevan sees it more as an evolutionary step :) 17:44
audreyt stevan: but seems to be a .us phenomenon
in .tw it's heavily under-diagnosed
Limbic_Region SamB - recognizing behavior and what causes it to go to extremes and then avoiding those behaviors (or doing more of something that has the same lessening effect)
stevan audreyt: yes, very much so
we like our drugs and our status quo
SamB the problem is the schools are bad enough here to induce ADD symptoms in people who don't normally have them
audreyt I know ADD people who explained to the psychiartrist, over 3 attempts
Limbic_Region for instance, some people with ADD do well with lists as they allow them to not try to keep them juggled in their mind while others don't - knowing which is which for you will go a long way to being happy
Daveman Hello, all :) 17:45
audreyt and finally the doctor reluctantly prescribed to him... Prozac.
stevan ouch
audreyt (which of course doesn't help.)
stevan yes
I personally did not like ritalin
SamB ooooooh, now I can be an ADD maniac!
stevan it worked, and worked very well,.. but I prefer my brain the way it is
SamB ... but its kind of depressing sometimes...
PerlJam I have "Can't get any work done" syndrome doctor. What do I take for that?
Daveman are we discussing ADHD/ADD now?
o.O 17:46
stevan and my chemicals to be purely recreational (if at all)
join #perl6-add
xerox :-)
SamB I get so defocused off meds... but maybe I just need to make it through withdrawel...
xerox stevan: did you ever try other remedies to ADD except ritalin?
stevan Daveman: ADD is the new acronym for MMD, just applied in the meat-space context
Limbic_Region SamB - another example of developing a pattern of behavior to be healthier and happier for me involves not thinking after 7PM on nights I have to go to work the next day
audreyt stevan++ # choice quote
Daveman ...
stevan xerox: yes, they were the same results 17:47
Limbic_Region my brain refuses to shut off otherwise so I intentionally watch mindless brain rotting television in the evening
SamB huh, I am not very good at that... "not thinking"... thing...
xerox stevan: what, if I can ask?
SamB: so you are under medication?
SamB hmm, mindless television...
xerox: yeah
stevan xerox: dexidrine, and one other whose name I dont recall
SamB right now I'm on some kind of adderal
fglock how about SUB, MUL, and DIV
xerox SamB: where do you live?
Daveman -_-
SamB US
Daveman heh 17:48
SamB but I was homeschooled, so I really do have ADD
Limbic_Region fglock - those look like rule names for a mathematical expression parser/evaluator ;-)
Daveman hahaha
xerox I think that if I was in the US I would be under medication too. Here in Italy the disease isn't taken much in consideration.
Daveman fucking americans :)
xerox, huhu :P
17:48 leptonix joined
Daveman it's not a disease. 17:48
stevan its an evolutionary step :)
xerox SamB: homeschooling sounds like a very positive thing. How was for you, if I could ask... and we are not too off topic? :)
stevan we are the new humans!!!!!!!
Limbic_Region also used to self-medicate with legal but otherwise inappropriate means
xerox Daveman: I think I agree with you :)
Daveman :) 17:49
Limbic_Region um - we have been OT for some time now
stevan *cough* ADD *cough*
Limbic_Region speaking of which - audreyt - do you know the best way to contact rafl about runcompiler?
SamB it was nice not to have grades, but I really hated the way my mom would drag me over the same problem again and again until I got it right...
audreyt Limbic_Region: hiveminder to his email? :)
SamB and I was always behind
Daveman threatens stevan with his gentlemens deuling glove
nothingmuch audreyt: please commit your canonicalized
version of the L<> links
audreyt nothingmuch: did
already 17:50
SamB I don't think it helped that my mom has ADD too
nothingmuch oh
oops =)
Daveman whoa, you have a mom?
stevan dodges Daveman's glove and runs back to $work
Limbic_Region I got his email address from his CPAN ID but didn't send one as I wasn't sure it was appropriate - what email addy to you have for him?
nothingmuch for some reason i thought I svk up -s'd already
xerox SamB: I see. Homeschooling the hard way.
SamB how do you homeschool without a mom?
xerox With wikipedia :D
SamB wikipedia doesn't make you do your schoolwork ;-) 17:51
stevan got his CS education from old textbooks bought of Ebay
xerox Depends on your attitude :)
SamB I was always getting distracted on the compooter
audreyt Limbic_Region: rafl at debian
Limbic_Region yep
Daveman samb, being asian does :p
Limbic_Region thanks
Daveman or used to, anyway... :\
xerox I finished high school these days.
SamB I better take the dog out before I forget... 17:52
17:52 penk joined
nothingmuch audreyt: aah 17:52
you canonicalized parrot
xerox But the academic places where I can go or the work position I can occupy are given by the background I developed off school, for one.
Daveman rafl?
nothingmuch but not the regular one
audreyt nothingmuch: yeah. the repost is only that section I guess
nothingmuch okay
Daveman rolling and flooring the linolium?
nothingmuch that's good enough input data for my converter 17:53
Daveman :p
nothingmuch sorry for the confusion
xerox Daveman: what brings you here? :)
Daveman the zerg!
or rather 17:54
this is where all the cool people hang out, right?
audreyt Daveman: I'm not sure, I know plenty of cool people who don't hang out here... 17:55
SamB heh, yeah
Limbic_Region audreyt - email sent
audreyt Limbic_Region: thanks
Daveman audrey, do they hang out -anywhere- on freenode, though? ;p
audreyt there are some cool people over at #svk too :p 17:56
Daveman :)
SamB there are some cool people in #haskell and #zsnes
though Nach is a wicked slavedriver
Daveman perhaps the former
audreyt what's zsnes?
Limbic_Region oh, is there a way with svn/svk to make sure every single local file matches the repo?
Daveman crap?
xerox And #scheme and #prolog too.
SamB ZSNES is a super nintendo emulator 17:57
xerox audreyt: Super Nintendo emu :)
audreyt oh. cool.
Limbic_Region I intermittently get an error about a file being skipped and to run merge with tracksomethingorother on
Daveman MORDOR!
SamB it is written in nasty ASM
Daveman zsweet?
:p
SamB well, some of it is nasty anyway
and parts of it are in C
Daveman so?
audreyt (bbiab, food) 17:58
SamB I'm actually helping with that
Daveman wow
17:58 Aankh|Clone joined
clkao Limbic_Region: svk rmcache and svk st 17:58
Daveman you guys can afford food these days? :)
Limbic_Region thanks clkao
audreyt actually no, obra feeds me
Limbic_Region works for the US Government and ducks
audreyt as is in the Chicago hackathon where stevan (among other people) feeds us 17:59
obra BPS has been feeding audrey a lot lately ;)
but hey, we get a lot of bang for our buck. 18:00
SamB is bang good to eat now?
audreyt aww.
bbiab &
Daveman :) 18:03
:p
18:04 xdg joined
xdg I have a question about the semantics of "say": Should "say" terminate statements with "\n" or (Perl5ish) "$\"? 18:06
PerlJam xdg: The mailing list went over that a while back IIRC. 18:07
xdg: I don't remember the outcome, but I continue to think of say as terminating with a "\n"
integral did both MLs go over it or just the p6 ones?
PerlJam p6l would be the only place I'd notice it. 18:08
xdg I mention it because I noticed that both Perl6::Say and IO::Handle (>1.23) use "\n"
audreyt xdg: $/ is supposedly per-filehandle
TimToady well, there is no $\ variable anymore, so that's part of it...
audreyt xdg: but it's not yet implemented
TimToady yes, such things should be per-filehandle attributes
xdg But should say() respect that per filehandle? Or is it assumed to always produce a local newline? 18:09
TimToady newline is easier to teach. 18:10
xdg -Oteach?
;) 18:11
18:11 Southen_ joined
xdg The thought I had about $\ (or Perl6 equivalent per filehandle) is that it could be useful to shift to "\r\n" for sockets, etc. and continue to use "say" 18:12
TimToady what you really want is a filehandle attribute that does s/\n/\r\n/g 18:13
(only in Perl 6. :)
xdg makes a note to re-read synopses 18:15
TimToady I doubt any of the synopses discuss that... 18:16
xdg Thanks. I was curious when I saw "\n" looking at code while trying to figure out why Perl6::Say was throwing warnings for redefining subs in IO::Handle. (Whee!)
18:17 Southen_ joined
clkao 4/win 23 18:17
xdg TimToady: Most of my understanding of Perl6 syntax/semantics is still from listening to the audio of your Israel talk. Eventually, I do want to get deeper than that. (If my brain will hold it.) 18:18
Limbic_Region recommends xdg getting a Johnny Mnemonic upgrade 18:19
xdg Limbic_Region: I've already dumped portions of my childhood it seems, and it doesn't appear to give me more capacity elsewhere, as my wife will attest. 18:21
Limbic_Region believes new hardware is required in addition to the dumping of prior wetware 18:22
xdg That would explain it. 18:23
Anyway, thanks to all for the clarification on "say". (Saves me from hassling Damian and Graham about it.)
pasteling "nothingmuch" at 71.234.68.135 pasted "sample ascii output with Pod::Simple link munging and shortening" (288 lines, 11.5K) at sial.org/pbot/18326 18:25
18:26 bpphillips left
audreyt discover Baking Chocolates makes poor lunch 18:27
SamB haha
nothingmuch okay 18:28
SamB baking chocolates... so bitter!
18:28 kudra joined
nothingmuch also added shortening for uri's longer than 40 chars 18:28
hi kudra
pasteling "nothingmuch" at 71.234.68.135 pasted "sample ascii output with Pod::Simple link munging and shortening" (277 lines, 11K) at sial.org/pbot/18327
nothingmuch please have a look at that
that's the parrot summary in the plain text format
kudra looks okay to me 18:29
nothingmuch so
we use long html links in the pod 18:30
err
long links in the pod and html
and run the script i'm checking in right now instead of pod2txt
kudra so noted in my instructions
svnbot6 r11457 | nothingmuch++ | Summary to txt converter with uri shortening, etc
nothingmuch can i have the instructions copy? 18:31
i'd like to check it in
ritalin report, ca. 1 hr into the thing:
kudra It's kind of a mess right now, I added my own notes
nothingmuch i've been able to talk and code at the same time a little more
no nausea or caughing
i seem calmer
(legs not shaking as spontaneously)
kudra so no ill side effects? 18:32
nothingmuch none yet
in fact
i had a bitter taste in my mouth for 3 dadys now
it seems to be slightly improiving ;-)
18:32 Southen_ is now known as Southen
kudra that's what you get for drinking from random lakes 18:32
nothingmuch no, i get that occasionally anyway
it just passes after a while 18:33
audreyt nothingmuch: oh. if you feel calmer instead of hyperactive, then it's working as designed, and you should seek prescription :)
nothingmuch ==)
audreyt: please post the parrot announce in txt 18:35
svnbot6 r11458 | nothingmuch++ | short doc for summary_to_txt
nothingmuch or rather
kudra, please do that yourself =)
sial.org/pbot/18327?tx=on&submi...rmat+it%21 18:36
just skip my prompt
audreyt right. write to perl6-announce
kudra don't I need to be on that mailing list to post to it?
audreyt sure, so first subscribe by posting to perl6-announce-subscriber 18:37
sure, so first subscribe by posting to perl6-announce-subscribe
it's just for summaries and releases
so should see only light traffic
18:40 DesreveR joined 18:44 Aankhen`` joined
kudra nothingmuch: done 18:53
nothingmuch huraah
audreyt kudra++
nothingmuch kudra+
kudra++
audreyt++
kudra let's all pat each other on the back, shall we? ;)
nothingmuch++ 18:54
audreyt++
nothingmuch yes =)
this is the karma way
you make people appreciate the karma
and then thjey strive for it
and if you pre-karma them you can guilt them into actually getting work done
kudra I try to resist peer pressure.
stevan and if that doesnt work, just mention them in your blog
nothingmuch or even better 18:55
during a talk
(see also how xdg was made into win32 perl pumpking)
webmind nothingmuch, 'convince people over a beer, and then post it online as agreed' that kinda setup ? 18:56
nothingmuch webmind: yep
kudra why didn't we get you to agree to any projects on your birthday? We certainly had you under the influence. 18:57
webmind perl6, build by manipulation. hmm doesn't really sound too good :)
nothingmuch kudra: you wooed me rather successfully on my birthday
i think that's enough for one evening =)
stevan webmind: it might be the manipulation which draws you in, but it's the -OFun which keeps you there
kudra and what are you going to do to me on my birthday? 18:58
nothingmuch i will probably send you a *hug* on IRC ;-)
stevan thinks nothingmuch might have made a few deals with $diety while vomiting into the sink
Limbic_Region doesn't care what it is as long as there are pictures >:-)
kudra it doesn't really count if I request it.
nothingmuch Limbic_Region: ask schwern/obra ;-) 18:59
so anyway
obra what am I doing?
stevan I am not sure I want to see *those* pictures
kudra I don't think there are any pictures of you being sick on your birthday. 19:00
nothingmuch i didn't think those were the pictures L~R was referring to
kudra I don't think they were either.
I am still not sure if pictures were actually taken.
stevan is not telling
lets just say nothingmuch's salary dropped a few zeros after that night 19:01
nothingmuch haaaaa
no wonder i didn't get a check yet
19:02 vel joined
prefiks kontrola 19:03
kudra Did it become something * 10^-x? 19:04
prefiks ups... wrong window
audreyt kudra: no, that will get more zeros
I'm sure stevan means he removed the prefix 0-pads
by switching from %080s to %80s, probably 19:05
hcarty :q 19:07
ack, apologies
nothingmuch audreyt++
kudra # what for? 19:08
nothingmuch protecting my significant zeros
and making a silly joke that i liked
cjeris Total beginner. If I type 'svn co svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/' will that be bad? 19:13
integral shouldn't be 19:14
SamB wouldn't it be better to check out the trunk only?
or is there no trunk?
integral that si the trunk
SamB oh
integral pugs doesn't bother with branches :)
SamB heh
they aren't very good in SVN compared to darcs anyways 19:15
19:17 flounder joined 19:19 coumbes joined
ajs SamB: what's wrong with subversion branching? I'm an old ClearCase and CVS user, so I'm fairly pleased with subversion's midpoint between the power of ClearCase and the simplicity of CVS.... 19:22
SamB well...
its better than CVS, I'm sure
but I never would have attempted branching in CVS 19:23
especially not with all the bad things in the manual about it...
ajs I do branching in CVS all the time. It's a pain, but workable
SamB try darcs on a multi-developer project for a time and then tell me you don't think that SVN is missing a little something
ajs OK. 19:24
Anyone freaking out about my each question on p6l? I'm about to check in the doc....
svnbot6 r11459 | ajs++ | Update to each with signature and :parity 19:27
TreyHarris ajs: I was, but I spoke too late I guess--I was responding by email, not IRC... 19:29
19:31 larsen joined
ajs no problem. there are problems anyway 19:37
what's up?
or should I just read mail?
19:37 jkanter joined
ajs It turns out on re-reading Larry's comments in S29, he had already answered part of the each question... so I need to do a few things: implement what he arm-waved (a "longest but not infinite") and also make zip the one that returns an Iterator, not each. each returns lazy 19:38
Then at least it will match Larry's idea of each. I take no stand on how anyone feels about Larry ;)
PerlJam ajs: So how does one tell zip when to stop? It seems to me like you'd want to be able to do something like @x = zip(@a,@b,@c) but say "stop when @b runs out" or something 19:39
TreyHarris PerlJam: yes, that's the point I'm making in mail, but now my attention is split :-)
ajs PerlJam: There are three cases that I think are required to get that in any arbitrary case: Continue until all are exhausted (default); continue until longest non-infinite is exhausted (Larry's example); continue until shortest is exhausted (my example). 19:41
If you have all three, you can combine them with nested calls to zip/each that get you anything you like.
Though there might have to be some massaging to get zip/each to play nice (to get each to expand zip's tuples... that sounds so wrong) 19:42
PerlJam Hmm. that sounds like putting the work onto the programmer when it could be simple syntactically. @x = zip(@a,@b:stop_on_empty,@c); (or somesuch)
ajs Well, you're looking at what I consider to be the overly specific case. I think the general case is "I have N arrays, and I want to loop over them until some condition is met", no? 19:44
This seems rather ugly: @x = zip(@a:stop_on_empty,@b:stop_on_empty,@c:stop_on_empty)
19:45 Khisanth joined
xerox Eck. 19:45
ajs I dunno... we might need BOTH. :stop_on_empty is probably too wordy, though. 19:46
pmichaud seems to me as though zip deserves the adverb, not its arguments 19:47
@x = zip(@a, @b, @c, :stop_shortest)
lambdabot Maybe you meant: . v
ajs pmichaud: that doesn't work. You can't pass @a,@b,@c to a slurpy. Well you can, but you don't get what you wanted. 19:48
That would be @x = zip(:stop_shortest, @a;@b;@c) or @x = zip(@a;@b;@c, :stop_shortest) 19:49
They're both just passing the named parameter :$stop_shortest set to 1
PerlJam ajs: so ... something like this? @x = zip :{ $^a && $^b && $^c } @a, @b, @c 19:50
pmichaud okay; I came in the middle of this, so...
just ignore me :-)
PerlJam ajs: where zip continues as long as the block returns a true value
TreyHarris ajs: heh, I should have paid attention here, not to my mail. I just sent something rehashing all this.
ajs TreyHarris: That's fine 19:51
TreyHarris but yes, we need *three* things. A boolean adverb to specify overall stopping behavior, a way to mark individual iterators as causing stoppage, and a way to mark individual iterators as not being considered in stoppage 19:52
ajs PerlJam: Yes, except you need semis and we don't have a slurpy sub handy for that purpose yet.... it's arguable that that's the right way to go, but I'm not sure I want to add that level of complexity just yet
TreyHarris: Yes 19:53
kudra goodnight 19:54
ajs TreyHarris: I think it's two booleans (:fewest and :finite perhaps, though one permutation is redundant).
kudra: night 19:55
kolibrie is there a way to tell if a pugs executable is built with embedded parrot or not?
ajs And then you need a way to say "@a :fewest" which would do something... cause an exception to be thrown on "eof" from @a's iterator which zip/each catches? 19:56
And finally, the non-stoppage is probably the default 19:57
kolibrie I tried to make a pugs without embedded parrot after making one with it, but without a make realclean, and I am doubting that the second one is reading from an external parrot
ajs kolibrie: not sure. 19:58
kolibrie The real problem I am investigating is why my examples/rules/yapc_schedule.pl works on feather and not locally
and thought it might be embedded parrot or not
ajs TreyHarris: Thoughts? 20:00
I'm not trying to ram anything down anyone's throat, just trying to make sense of some edge cases. 20:01
kolibrie: Linux?
kolibrie ajs: yes, debian 20:02
ajs strace may or may not give you some love
20:02 woremacx_ joined
kolibrie has never used strace 20:02
TreyHarris ajs: I'm thinking...
ajs TreyHarris: Cool
kolibrie: It just tells you what system calls are being made. Massive spew of output, but if it runs an external parrot, then you know it's talking to parrot 20:03
kolibrie ajs: ooh, I could have used that a few times in the past
TreyHarris ajs: roundrobin, on the other hand, needs to default differently. roundrobin([1,2],[3],[4,5,6]) should generate 1,3,4,2,5,6, but should have an adverb that would case it to generate [1,3,4,2,undef,5,undef,undef,6]... 20:04
ajs TreyHarris: So that's the inverse case. You need a :most for both the sub and the arrays. 20:05
er Containers
roundrobin probably does infinite by default though, so :finite still makes sense. 20:06
TreyHarris I'm trying to fully grok this... would my three examples in my mail be doable?
ajs Checking... 20:07
20:07 weinig is now known as weinig|away
ajs "stop once this iterator runs out" - yes. "Stop when anything besides this iterator runs out" - er... not that I can figure (how do you combine this with "Stop when any iterator runs out"? 20:08
TreyHarris they don't combine. you either get less-than-sane behavior with a warning, or get an exception 20:09
ajs: unfortunately, i have to run to a meeting i'm already late for. i will continue to cogitate. 20:10
&
ajs laters!
20:12 rzoz joined 20:19 DaGo joined 20:20 khisanth_ joined 20:21 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth, dmitri_ joined 20:27 lollan joined 20:30 khisanth_ joined 20:31 khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 20:33 FurnaceBoy joined
svnbot6 r11460 | ajs++ | Another incremental update as the conversation continues: zip/each in a way that I think mergest Trey Harris, Lary and my concerns. 20:36
ajs ahem... "Lary"... opps 20:37
oops even
nothingmuch aaaah 20:46
ingy's wp page was deleted
ingy why? 20:47
nothingmuch oh wait
it wasn't
hmm
why didn't my wp search work =/
odd
okay, we're ok
ajs nothingmuch: heh 21:01
nothingmuch: have you followed the chatter on WP's talk page for Perl 6?
nothingmuch nope
just ingy ;-)
anything specific? 21:02
ajs nothingmuch: The guy who has been trolling the Perl article has started saying that some ancient and just plain WRONG diatribe from freshmeat "needs" to be linked to from the Perl 6 article ;)
nothingmuch oh
shlomi's article? 21:03
ajs yeah
Steve_p ajs: he watches this log file
...although he says that he's leaving Wikipedia for good
ajs he watches my comments on Wikipedia too, I'm sure, since he's been in that conversion. He knows my opinion of the article
FurnaceBoy he'll be in here in a moment or two 21:04
ajs It's not that I think he's not capable of better, but he made some very wrong statements there, and people called him on it.
FurnaceBoy a not infrequent occurrence
nothingmuch was it actually shlomi that added it?
daxim where is that freshmeat article?
nothingmuch well, at least wassercrats has sodded off recently =)
freshmeat.net/articles/view/1339/ 21:05
lambdabot Title: "freshmeat.net: Editorials - Critique of Where Perl 6 is Heading"
FurnaceBoy nothingmuch, that's who we mean.
nothingmuch oh
ajs No one added it last I checked. But both he and wassercrats were suggesting that it was a good thing to do...
nothingmuch i thought you meant shlomi did
sorry
well
21:05 ivanfrey joined
nothingmuch shlomi may be annoying but i don't think he's a troll, TBH 21:06
he does mean well
xerox Dhehe, freshmeat. It still exist?
Steve_p Yes, shlomi too
FurnaceBoy (less annoying than kdd)
ajs nothingmuch: No, it's not shlomi that's the troll. It's -Barry- (wassercrat(s)?)
nothingmuch yeah
nothingmuch got it by now ;-)
Steve_p ajs, you're going to get me called a liar again 21:07
ajs He's the one that said, "You need to provide references. I'd accept anything authored by someone as qualified as Shlomi."
Steve_p ;)
ajs Steve_p: liar! ;)
FurnaceBoy since the original *article* was 1) pretty daft and 2) by Shlomi, he wasn't going anywhere
nothingmuch it's also very old
xerox I don't like that article.
FurnaceBoy would not accept any criticism that yes, it's as old as Stonehenge
and about as relevant to perl6
xerox Why doesn't it take in consideration Synopses in his very first paragraph? 21:08
ajs The synopsis process may not have begun yet... it was 2004. When was the first synopsis?
nothingmuch yeah, i think that's correct
i think late 2004
xerox Ah, it's old. 21:09
ajs VERY
FurnaceBoy yes, but refusing to listen to suggestions about revising it... that's where it got stupid
nothingmuch or maybe mid 2004
also, his perl 6 code in the article is very non perl6ish
FurnaceBoy KDD, not shlomi, again... though it's not clear why shlomi hasn't revisited it (busy?)
nothingmuch for 0..6 -> $t { if abs(@new[$t] - @new[$t+1]) > 3 {
that should be a zip
ajs FurnaceBoy: indeed. It's not that he was being stupid, just uninformed. But the observable difference between uninformed+stubborn and stupid are minimal.
pasteling "ivanfrey" at 72.136.69.198 pasted "Can't subscribe to [email@hidden.address] even though I'm able to subscribe to perl6-users." (23 lines, 1K) at sial.org/pbot/18330 21:10
FurnaceBoy ajs, nah, uninformed was the original error. being read-only on the subject was the stupid part. ?
21:10 lumi joined
ajs None the less... just an amusing event. 21:11
FurnaceBoy it'll be amusing until he drops in again. :)
audreyt spent some time trying to convince him the article was ass-about, iirc
xerox in.tech.yahoo.com/060708/139/65pz8.html wheeew.
lambdabot Title: "Indian-born scientist developing coated DVD's that can make hard disks obsolete"
FurnaceBoy funny, I've read that headline every year since 1990 ;-) 21:12
nothingmuch not even audreyt's patience and enlightening can help KDD ;-)
kolibrie ivanfrey: that's not so cool
FurnaceBoy lol @ nothingmuch
ajs xerox: someone always says that... it's on Slashdot at least once a month.
FurnaceBoy uncorrectable error, nothingmuch ? or, (as I was dubbed once in #svn): learning resistant?
21:13 DaGo joined
nothingmuch FurnaceBoy: ? 21:13
KDD is just stubborn
he does it for the attention
xerox ajs: crazy :)
nothingmuch it's got nothing else behind that
i don't think it relates to stupidity or anything like that (well, maybe indirectly)
ajs "Sydney, Jul 8 (ANI): An Indian born scientist in the US" -- Read as: let's get as many country names in the press release as possible so Google will find it ;-) 21:14
FurnaceBoy nothingmuch, right. 21:16
ajs, actually, that's US claiming adverse credit.
"he's one of ours, even if he was born ... over there"
21:16 beppu joined
nothingmuch err 21:17
21:17 justatheory joined
nothingmuch they didn't want *my* tax money 21:17
ajs We need a Slashdot-style, "Your suggested revolutionary media technology will not work because: [x] seek times would be insane [x] the required manufacturing technology is decades off [x] biological material doesn't store well [ ] the word "nano" does not constitute a new technology"
nothingmuch ajs++ # amusing 21:18
FurnaceBoy lol@ajs
hehe, like I read in that ACM Queue article, "saying 'it's XML' does not constitute a design"
who is the guy who posts that classic checklist on usenet... 21:19
relating to either infinite compression, or some other Frequently-posted-nonsense
svnbot6 r11461 | Sage++ | Corrected several problems with the parser as well as some problems with how translations are applied. Added a translation for foreach loops. for.t and split.t both seem to parse correctly, reflecting my most recent updates.
daxim ajs, this isn't from /. google.com/search?q=craphound+spam+...ot+work%22
lambdabot Title: "craphound spam &quot;will not work&quot; - Google Search"
nothingmuch there's a funny story in the gzip docs about software patents
gailly.net/ 21:20
FurnaceBoy daxim, that's what I was thinking of!
lambdabot Title: "Jean-loup's home page"
FurnaceBoy thanks
ajs daxim: Thanks for the context!
21:20 weinig|away is now known as weinig
daxim this xah lee guy linked from the wp perl 6 article is amusing 21:22
FurnaceBoy oh no
he's awful...
very familiar from posting off-topic rubbish to the perl ngs 21:23
isp recently slapped him on the wrist for abuse
ivanfrey Well I got my first smoke test uploaded. I think I'll svn up; make; make smoke tonight before I go to bed. I'll also close all my applications except for the smoke test. 21:25
daxim no perl Makefile.PL again? 21:27
ivanfrey At first I didn't think it was mine when I saw the time, but I just noticed it's GMT :-)
svnbot6 r11462 | fglock++ | px/Common/fglock - added Pugs/Runtime/Regex.pm 21:28
kolibrie daxim: you generally do not need to run the Makefile.PL, unless you changed settings or ENV variables 21:29
daxim aha
21:32 weinig joined
ivanfrey kolibrie: thanks for clarification on the perl Makefile.PL step. 21:33
kolibrie ivanfrey: np 21:34
fglock clkao: ping 21:43
21:45 froh-doh joined
ivanfrey kolibrie: Anything I can do about my subscribe problem to perl6-compiler? Do I really have to subscribe under my ISP address and not my university one? 21:46
fglock clkao: re memory requirements - I'll try interleaving parsing and emitting statements, so that it can compile arbitrary size files 21:49
21:51 macroron joined 21:52 macroron joined
clkao fglock: hi 21:57
fglock clkao: hey 21:58
21:59 macroron joined
TimToady j 21:59
fglock clkao: reducing PCR memory footprint requires an almost rewrite, because of the bootstrapping thing - it's easier to make v6 compile in smaller chunks
clkao win 23 22:00
22:02 rindolf joined
rindolf Hello Perl 6 Guys and Gals! 22:02
22:02 macroron joined
pasteling "rindolf" at 88.153.15.197 pasted "Behold my new groovy-magnoovy signature" (7 lines, 307B) at sial.org/pbot/18333 22:03
ajs rindolf: heya
rindolf hi ajs
ajs: perhaps Chuck Norris would be a useful addition to the Pugs and Parrot teams. 22:04
22:04 macroron joined
ajs rindolf: If Norris can write, give em a commit bit, and tie him to a keyboard ;) 22:05
FurnaceBoy I thought he already had commit
daxim Chuck Norris commits with a roundhouse kick into the SVN server's head 22:08
rindolf daxim: :)
FurnaceBoy chuckles
ajs daxim: If you can get that to pass the test suite, then more power to you! 22:09
22:09 prefiks left
FurnaceBoy Chuck *is* the test suite 22:09
Kattana chuck norris does not code, when he sits at a computer and it just does whatever he wants.
FurnaceBoy hehe
22:10 weinig is now known as weinig|coffee
rindolf Kattana: :-) 22:10
daxim ah, we're easy to amuse
ajs Be the test suite, Chuck... BE the test suite.
FurnaceBoy you gotta pass 'make chuck'
svnbot6 r11464 | fglock++ | v6 - added TODO Pugs/Compiler/Perl6.pm - reduce memory footprint
fglock later & 22:12
rindolf I gotta add the "Present Continuous" TimToady quotes to the wikiqutoe. 22:15
22:19 cjeris left 22:21 macroron joined 22:23 macroron_ joined
nothingmuch ritalin report, ~6 hrs into it 22:47
got boring crap done
lots of it too
but I did easily get distracted
i suspect that tomorrow it'll have slightly more effect, based on what I read 22:48
i think the major change is that the boring stuff *did* get done 22:50
the little bit of edge i needed to plow through it was there 22:51
and i didn't get lost in thought ever
i usually just drift very easily
ingy: ping
or rather audreyt ping 22:52
clkao: is my small knife still in your pocket? 22:55
22:55 FurnaceBoy_ joined
ingy hi nothingmuch 22:56
nothingmuch hi ingy
i want $YAML::{Syck::,}SortKeys to take a code ref
ingy are you on my ritalin?
nothingmuch yes, I am =)
ingy funny
nothingmuch a certain friend of ours let me try some 22:57
ingy fun with drugs
nothingmuch =D
the colors are lovely
ingy is the paranoia hitting hard yet? 22:58
nothingmuch yeah
stevan's daughter was just sitting behind me
but now she isn't
ingy I laced those capsules with extra goodies
nothingmuch ooh baby
ingy have a fun ride
nothingmuch ugh 22:59
cpanratings.perl.org/dist/YAML
lambdabot Title: "YAML reviews -"
nothingmuch YAML is meaningless unless you write it by hand
and obviously they have not yet written YAML by hand
vs. XML by hand
23:00 oozy joined
nothingmuch and YAML::Tiny just doesn't give you the features that by-hand writing benefits from 23:00
ingy wow, thanks Adam 23:01
nothingmuch "YAML just blindly blesses things into classes, regardless of whether the class can support that, is loaded, or even exists. " 23:02
hah, and Storable is better
*sigh*
anyway, ingy my love
i want $SortKeys to take a \&cmp
ingy yes yes?
nothingmuch or even a \&sort
ingy it does
iirc
nothingmuch AML::Node objects can have their own sort order
hmmm
well, i really want to be using YAML::Syck 23:03
ingy feh
nothingmuch sorry baby, i love YAML, but Syck has bigger boobs
it's nothing personal
daxim I've had "Red Zone" on loop in amarok for about 2 hours now 23:12
ajs daxim: define: "Red Zone", "on loop" and "amarok"... 23:13
23:13 rashakil joined
ajs Ah... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarok_%28audio%29 ? 23:13
Now, it starts to make sense... 23:14
daxim amarok = kde media player
ajs right. makes sense now
clkao nothingmuch: yes, i was just about to tell you, as it dropped out when i was looking for my flask 23:37
vsoni seen audreyt 23:40
jabbot vsoni: audreyt was seen 4 hours 35 minutes 17 seconds ago
nothingmuch clkao: okay 23:41
try to remember to bring it next time 23:42
or if you are in .tw maybe you can send it with the tea
clkao heh
nothingmuch but you are in .uk, right?
clkao yes 23:43
or you can come to yapc
or we can meet in matterhorn
nothingmuch matterhorn?
i may be at YAPC::EU this year
clkao images.google.com/images?q=matterho...amp;tab=wi
lambdabot Title: "matterhorn - Google Image Search"
nothingmuch oh that 23:44
yes, i'd like that
but I don't know when =)
also, tell me in advance because I don't have ice gear
clkao i dont think we need them in summer
presumably august
nothingmuch 4,478 m 23:45
hmm
clkao ;)
it's real mountain
unlike the 2,100m ;)
nothingmuch yeah
i haven't gone that high, I think
clkao well, the highest in taiwan is 3,952m
nothingmuch i was in aspen at around 3000ish
clkao second highest is 3,882
but i think i enjoy the forests more 23:46
nothingmuch well, you saw my preference =)
23:48 Bit-Man joined
nothingmuch de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirbitzkogel 23:48
that's my grandparent's backyard
daxim I'm a flatlander. always been suspicious of mountains 23:51
I made vacation in ljubljana, .si. it's in a valley, and everywhere on the horizon these enormous walls 23:52
with snow. in the summer! madness, I tell you!
nothingmuch daxim: clkao and I just hiked in the white mountains of NH 23:53
supposedly it's the area with the worst weather in the world
in the nearby Mt. Washington, somebody died in *august* 93 of a blizzard 23:54
we had good weather though
TreyHarris nothingmuch: i've been finding getting the focus to do that last tedious 10% done hard, too. are you finding it easy to think things through that require careful patient thought?
nothingmuch TreyHarris: i usually drift
but today i haven't drifted at all
i usually find the last 70% hard ;-) 23:55
and today i'm finishing stuff
TreyHarris huh, interesting
nothingmuch so i guess that the short answer is yes
but i don't know yet because i haven't had really annoying work
i think it boils down to this: 23:56
normally after 5 minutes i stop typing
and start thinking about something else
and then 3 hours later i have 40 browser tabs open 23:57
and I'm a completely different subject
today i've been on topic
despite distractions i never "forgot" what I had to do
TreyHarris nothingmuch: heh, that sounds just like me. (the "before")
i've actually set myself a growl notification to popup whenever Safari starts taking more than 1GB of mem :-)
nothingmuch hah 23:58
can i have that snippet?
TreyHarris nothingmuch: yeah, but i have to get it when i'm on the other computer. remind me if i forget
23:59 qu1j0t3 joined
nothingmuch [email@hidden.address] if you remember 23:59
but i'll hunt you down
MUAHAHAHAHAAAAA
23:59 vsoni joined

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!