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Set by audreyt on 29 August 2006.
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markstos I copied the first post over to I'll continue to copy my Perl6 blogging stuff over there from my journal, and then send stuff directly to the pugs blog after that. 00:33
TreyHarris markstos: so i should take your use perl journal off my newsreader lest i get duplicates? :-) 00:43
audreyt: are you around?
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markstos TreyHarris: it's a compliment to know I'm in someone's newsreader. Once I catch up with a few current things, I'll post Perl6 stuff just to the Pugs blog,and other perl stuff back at use.perl, so you won't have to suffer through duplicates for long. 00:48
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markstos How do I define an array of hashes in Perl6? I didn't see an example in S09 01:10
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TreyHarris markstos: define? my Array @array of Hash, I'd assume 01:17
markstos The "of" is not recognized yet there. 01:18
I'm looking for something like my @a = ({ a => b}, { c => 'd' } );
TreyHarris yeah, the typing tests mostly fail
that should work
that's why i was trying to raise audrey actually 01:19
?eval my @l = ({d => 'a'}, {d => ''}, {d => 'cd'}); @l.perl
01:19 evalbot_12913 is now known as evalbot_12915
evalbot_12915 "[\{(\"d\" => \"a\"),}, \{(\"d\" => \"\"),}, \{(\"d\" => \"cd\"),}]" 01:19
TreyHarris that works on evalbot
but it doesn't work on my pugs build at the same rev 01:20
it hangs for about four minutes, eating up cpu and mem, and then segfaults
markstos ?eval my @a = ({ a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' }, { c => 'd' } ); for @a -> %h { say %h.perl; }; 01:21
evalbot_12915 OUTPUT[{("a\tb" => ("a2" => "b3")),} {("c\td" => undef),} ] undef
markstos Not quite right.
TreyHarris ?eval my @a = ({ a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' }, { c => 'd' } ); @a.perl 01:23
evalbot_12915 "[\{(\"a\" => \"b\"), (\"a2\" => \"b3\")}, \{(\"c\" => \"d\"),}]"
markstos I also tried %() instead of {}, which didn't work either. 01:24
TreyHarris ?eval my @a = [{ a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' }, { c => 'd' } ]; @a.perl
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evalbot_12915 "[[\{(\"a\" => \"b\"), (\"a2\" => \"b3\")}, \{(\"c\" => \"d\"),}],]" 01:24
TreyHarris huh, that's bizarre
markstos ?eval my @a; push @a, %( a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' ); push @a, %( c => 'd', c2 => 'd2' ); for @a -> %h { say %h.perl; }; 01:25
evalbot_12915 OUTPUT[{("a" => "b"),} {("a2" => "b3"),} {("c" => "d"),} {("c2" => "d2"),} ] undef
markstos So, the hashes are always getting broken up into subhashes. 01:26
I'm not sure how to be more explicit about what I mean. 01:27
?eval my @a; my $b = %( a => 'b', a2 => 'b3' ); push @a, $b; my $c = %( c => 'd', c2 => 'd2' ); push @a, $c; for @a -> %h { say %h.perl; }; 01:28
evalbot_12915 OUTPUT[{("a\tb" => ("a2" => "b3")),} {("c\td" => ("c2" => "d2")),} ] undef
markstos Does Perl6 have a builtin way to read YAML, or just to produce it? 01:31
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audreyt markstos: read yaml? 02:04
?eval eval("1: 2", :lang<yaml>) 02:05
evalbot_12915 {("1" => "2"),}
audreyt like that?
markstos Whoa. Call.
Cool. :)
audreyt =)
yaml is pretty much the B:: of Pugs
I'd like to make SQLite the DBM of Pugs as well...
markstos I was thinking of using yaml as a back door to solve my array of hashes creation problem. 02:06
audreyt just wrote a GC in p5+SQLite for $job... going to run now
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audreyt bbiab :) 02:07
markstos: give your blogpost a title? 02:08
markstos Sorry I missed that. Doing now. 02:10
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markstos done. published now. 02:11
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peacock any pugs people around who can help me with a build error? 02:43
markstos I figured out the issue with declaring an array of hashes. The declaration was correct, but it is necessary to iterate over it with 'for each' instead of just 'for', which I don't fully understand yet.
?eval my $quiz = ( { a => 1, b => 2 }, { a => 1, b => 3 },); for each($quiz) -> %h { say %h.perl; }
evalbot_12915 OUTPUT[{("a" => 1), ("b" => 2)} {("a" => 1), ("b" => 3)} ] undef
markstos peacock: I'm here but I doubt I'll be much help with a build error. 02:44
peacock well i'll throw it out anyway
i get an error when trying to build libHSPugs.a 02:45
it says illegal option, then no archive members specified
any ideas?
audreyt nopaste the whole buildlog? 02:46
peacock by it i mean the 'ar' command
audreyt and trace util/build_pugs
peacock ok one sec
markstos Here comes the professional-level support. ;)
audreyt illegal option is most likely due to embperl5
if you build again with env PUGS_EMBED set to "-perl5" 02:47
(need realclean perhaps)
then it's likely to work
though I'd ofcourse like to make embperl work
pasteling "peacock" at pasted "build error" (464 lines, 31.4K) at 02:48
peacock i pasted what i had - but no trace from build_pugs
audreyt this is osx?
peacock yeah
its a fresh source tree from yesterday 02:49
audreyt ok. at util/
line 288
put a "die @a_file" there
and run "make pugs" 02:50
and see what it prints
die "$ar - @a_file";
and see what your perl thinks the full_ar is 02:51
most likely your $Config{full_ar} contains spaces
do you use the OSX builtin perl?
peacock yeah
ok i'm retrying with that modification 02:52
having some trouble with my irc client :( did you see the result? 02:53
audreyt no
peacock "/usr/bin/ar - /Users/rob/proj/pugs/dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.12.a at util/ line 288."
there it is
audreyt ok. if you run 02:54
/usr/bin/ar s /Users/rob/proj/pugs/dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.12.a
does it succeed with no messages?
peacock "ranlib: can't open file: /Users/rob/proj/pugs/dist/build/libHSPugs-6.2.12.a (No such file or directory)" 02:57
audreyt weird.
do a
find dist/build | grep libHSPugs
and see where the .a files is there
audreyt blames Cabal -- this is apparently a safe bet 02:58
peacock hmm...just don't have it it seems
audreyt find . third-party | grep libHSPugs
peacock wait
./third-party/installed/lib/Pugs-6.2.12/libHSPugs-6.2.12.a 02:59
i have that
audreyt that's the only libHSPugs? there's none under dist/build/?
find . |grep libHSPugs
peacock nope :\
audreyt and see if it's anywhere else
it has to come to install/ from somewhere...
peacock thats the only one on the system 03:01
audreyt ok
peacock searched in spotlight
could this be the result of earlier builds?
i had some earlier problems that I managed to muddle through
audreyt how large is it? 03:02
ah. that might be the reason too
look at your Pugs.cabal
the last line should begin with ghc-options:
nopaste that line?
peacock its 44.1mb 03:04
lambdabot Title: Paste #19394 from "peacock" at
audreyt hmm 03:05
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audreyt perl is build with debug on (-g)? weird 03:06
peacock the darwin stuff is always just different enough to cause me problems 03:07
audreyt what does
perl -V:ranlib 03:08
say on your system?
peacock ranlib='/usr/bin/ar ts';
audreyt aha.
peacock i'm afraid i'm still completely in the dark 03:09
svnbot6 r12916 | markstos++ | A first draft of the Perl6 dispatch quiz! 03:10
r12916 | markstos++ | Interactively use to enter your own answers about how
r12916 | markstos++ | you expect dispatching to work.
r12916 | markstos++ | More quiz questions are coming, but they are also easy to add
r12916 | markstos++ | in the YAML in the source. (Which could be broken out into a separate game file...)
markstos The quiz is at examples/games/
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audreyt peacock: up to r12917 03:12
and nopaste the build log again
this time it'll become instrumented with "ar" calls
which should help to diagnose the rune to use 03:13
peacock ok i'm on it 03:14
svnbot6 r12917 | audreyt++ | * add instrumentation to
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peacock 03:22
lambdabot Title: Paste #19395 from "peacock" at
audreyt ok, I got it. 03:24
it's embperl5 problem
please change util/ line 303
$run_setup->('build', '--verbose');
and nopaste buildlog again 03:25
my taxi is here; I need to run in a bit; will be back in a couple hours
if you need a pugs built now, set
export PUGS_EMBED=-perl5
and realclean make
will get you a nonembed working pugs
but I'll look at the --verbose log and adjust cabal flags accordingly as soon as I'm back on the net
see you :)
*wave* &
peacock ok - thanks a lot for all your help 03:26
markstos peacock: Yesterday audreyt turned on Perl5 embedding by default. It's a cool feature allowing you do things like use perl5:HTML::Template, and have that module work in Perl6. 03:28
But apparently there are still some kinks to work out with getting it to build everywhere. :)
peacock markstos: looks like i picked the wrong day to try building pugs! 03:29
markstos I suspect it will work if you that out that build option.
There is still a lot to explore and play with without Perl5 embedding.
peacock the build system alone has been keeping me entertained for quiet a while ;) 03:30
markstos Ah.
Well, you always play with the evalbot here in the channel:
?eval say "Hello, Rob"
03:30 evalbot_12915 is now known as evalbot_12917
evalbot_12917 OUTPUT[Hello, Rob ] Bool::True 03:30
peacock yeah thats fun, but i actually do enjoy digging around in the pugs build 03:31
the haskell stuff scares and fascinates me
markstos likewise. 03:32
peacock and i have to say, its pretty cool that people take the time to help a newbie to get set up 03:34
markstos As it turned out, I think you were providing valuable feedback about how Perl5 embedding builds, so it's a two way street. 03:35
pasteling "peacock" at pasted "verbose log of os x build error" (252 lines, 24.6K) at 03:36
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svnbot6 r12918 | markstos++ | Update the dispatch quiz game a little, including comments 03:40
r12918 | markstos++ | about more scenerios I'd like to model.
peacock *thinks thats a good idea*
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TreyHarris ?eval ({d => 'a'}, {d => ''}, {d => 'cd'}) 04:35
04:35 evalbot_12917 is now known as evalbot_12918
evalbot_12918 ({("d" => "a"),}, {("d" => ""),}, {("d" => "cd"),}) 04:35
TreyHarris ?eval ({d => 'a'}, {d => ''}, {d => 'cd'} :lang<yaml>) 04:36
evalbot_12918 Error: unexpected ":" expecting comment, operator, "," or ")"
TreyHarris ?eval ({d => 'a'}, {d => ''}, {d => 'cd'}).yaml 04:37
evalbot_12918 "--- \n- \n ? d\n : a\n\n- \n ? d\n : \n\n- \n ? d\n : cd\n\n"
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svnbot6 r12919 | malon++ | examples/games/ - print questions in a friendlier format 05:41
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gaal is there a suggested technique for parsing things that can come out of order and accummulating them somehow classified? 06:11
e.g. :($x? = 42 is rw is moose where { $x % 2 }) 06:12
afaik 'is rw', 'is moose' and 'where...' can come in any order
the way i was thinking of was to wrap them all in the same type, and do [modifiers] <- many choice [...] 06:14
but that's kinda artificial since 'is rw' is by no means an Exp, for example
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svnbot6 r12920 | trey++ | Adding a smartlink 07:26
r12921 | trey++ | [docs/Perl6/Perl5/Differences.pod] 07:39
r12921 | trey++ | Made the section on twigils actually contain a twigil or two ;-)
gaal ugh. what's the best way to deal with clashing names oldval<->newval? In Pugs.AST so far we were lucky and didn't need to import Pugs.Val qualified; but now I want Param(..)... 07:40
...and Pugs.AST reexports 'module Pugs.Val' 07:41
I think for now I'll do type NewParam = Param and export that, if that allows constructors 07:42
doesn't seem to work :( 07:44
this is ugly, but the fix is maybe to have the data type called NewParam and Param be an (unexported) alias to that?
of just call it SigParam and be done with it :/ 07:45
going with that, as it does make some sort of sense. 07:47
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araujo what are you trying to do gaal ? 07:48
gaal take over the world! :)
araujo ok, well, we all are at it ....
gaal araujo: introduce a parser that deals with :()
and constructs a Signature object with Params in it 07:49
the problem was that the Param symbol was already used in old-val land.
but it's fixed now.
svnbot6 r12922 | trey++ | [Differences.pod] 07:54
r12922 | trey++ | Fixed section on quotes to refer to the
r12922 | trey++ | quotes they were referring to....
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svnbot6 r12923 | trey++ | [Differences.pod] 08:18
r12923 | trey++ | Infinite C<loop>. :P5 regexes.
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gaal audreyt: in Sig, does s_namedSet include names of positional params too, or only "pure nameds"? 08:28
likewise s_requiredNames
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gaal I'll commit rudimentary Signature parsing later today. Something that can be really helpful to continue with this is tests, but as far as I know an introspection API isn't specced yet for Signatures, so that might be hard to do :) 09:57
can we get at least a conjectural API please? 09:58
if anyone wants to invent one and just commit tests, please go ahead 10:00
e.g.: my $sig = :($x); is $sig.requiredPositionals, 1 10:01
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gaal yay! ghc 6.6 release candidate, only a week late! 10:48
lambdabot Title: Index of /ghc/dist/current/dist
nothingmuch can a type class have an instance of another type class? 10:57
audreyt subclassing is allowed, sure 10:59
nothingmuch is going to solve the layout/slot issue by overengineering once and for all 11:00
and then i think i am going to write me a blondie 2 in haskell
but just OO
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gaal going out for lunch for a few hours 11:01
audreyt: will you be here in say 2h?
nothingmuch sounds like a fun lunch
enjoy =)
gaal yeah, buchari's the best :)
nothingmuch dunnos 11:02
audreyt sure
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gaal darn, forgot my new feather pw 11:02
ok so i won't mail you my latest patch, we'll talk then 11:03
ludan hi
gaal gotta moose, later! &
nothingmuch we need to implement hasselhoffian recursion in perl 6
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gaal remoose 12:50
araujo morning 12:54
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svnbot6 r12924 | gaal++ | * Basic support for parsing Signatures with :(). 13:13
r12924 | gaal++ | Only named parameters are parsed, and optionals (incorrectly)
r12924 | gaal++ | require a '?' even if they have a default value. No parameter
r12924 | gaal++ | decoration (type constraints, access traits, etc.) is supported
r12924 | gaal++ | yet. The following forms do work:
r12924 | gaal++ | :($x:)
r12924 | gaal++ | :($x)
r12924 | gaal++ | :($x: $y, $z)
r12924 | gaal++ | :($x: $y, $z? = 42)
r12924 | gaal++ | :($x: $y?, $z) # correctly raises a parse error
gaal tests and golf welcome... 13:14
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gaal s/named/positional/.... 13:16
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gaal bbiab... 13:20
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audreyt ooooh. 13:27
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svnbot6 r12925 | audreyt++ | * Proper support for PCRE submatch counts. 13:34
r12925 | audreyt++ | * Disable explicit imports from RRegex.PCRE, in preparation
r12925 | audreyt++ | for a #ifdef PUGS_HAVE_PERL5 hook in RRegex.hs so that we
r12925 | audreyt++ | can switch into RRegex.Perl5 some day.
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Limbic_Region audreyt - "some day"? Is the plan to move in that direction now on hold in lieu of something else? 13:50
audreyt as in "not today" 13:51
as my brain is fried
as in "perhaps tomorrow."
Limbic_Region ah
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audreyt peacock: In case you are backlogging, I've got identical setup on powerpc g4 14:02
looking into the build problem now
though not sure if I'll stay awake long enough... 14:03
obra 'morning 14:04
audreyt yo 14:05
clkao audreyt: hey 14:06
audreyt: what happened to the plain that using rule as a rendering template language
audreyt well, we didn't have a reasonable PCR ack then... 14:07
now I guess it'd be nice and fun.
clkao ya
so... mmm very interesting.
i will talk to tina later 14:08
audreyt tina?
the notes are still in misc/pX/audreyt/rules-are-templates
clkao audreyt: html::template::compiled 14:09
audreyt nice!
excellent stuff.
clkao ya. it's even faster then tt 14:10
there are more complaints about jifty being mason than i expcected 14:11
audreyt View::HTC then?
mason is more polarizing than tt2.
as it's not a humble framework.
obra HTC?
ah. parsed.
audreyt HTML::Template::Compiled
definitely not MSIE5 HTML Components :) 14:12
obra but yes, TT people Hate mason, while mason people usually prefer mason to TT. ;)
audreyt I prefer mason to TT, and I hate mason.
obra mm. need hackathon to make jifty::view::declarative go 14:13
audreyt I guess that makes me in both camps comfortably
clkao norman ported 50% to tt
he said the other 50% is hard
audreyt yeah. you not going to oopsla...
not sure what other conferences are there between oct and feb
clkao i am proably going to yapc::sa 14:14
audreyt but it's brazil, we are more likely to hack p5p6 or p6p6 or p5p5
obra when is oopsla? 14:15
"p5p5" for real?
audreyt B::Visitor
obra clkao: norman never committed anything
audreyt or some other lathos-isomorphic plans
obra :)
audreyt metaprogramming p5 in p5, that is 14:16
clkao audreyt: oh, seee if we can switch to PCR based templates. then it's relevent
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audreyt that's even more crazy that declarative UI... 14:16
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audreyt autoscraping reversible templating 14:16
obra heh
clkao X
audreyt obra: oopsla is oct22
clkao D
audreyt ~26
clkao where's oopsla?
obra portland
actually. 14:17
audreyt portland convention centre
obra cl: when is google summit?
clkao 16-18
obra so. we could do 19-21 in portland
clkao i guess sfo pdx isn't too far away
obra or after oopsla
clkao . o O (perl travel agent service)
obra also, we have a staff programmer in portland.
who knows where one can find onsen
clkao this is crazy talk
audreyt in portland? wow. 19~21 would be good for me
obra schwern claims there are hotsprings in portland. 14:18
clkao Intternals::SvREADONLY(${\undef}, 0) undef = 42
audreyt orig. planning pair with fglock right after oopsla
clkao: yes, I saw that hack (and SvTRUE = 0 and SvFALSE = 1) in perlmonks a while ago...
obra audreyt: fglock is comming to oopsla?
audreyt no, flying to brazil for preconf hackathon
obra ahh.
19-12 is a little short
audreyt 19~26 is not 14:19
obra and knowing you, you'll be slideshacking
that's true.
clkao mmm
then machupichu before yapcsa...
audreyt well, my keynote is 22
obra keynote?! wow.
audreyt opening day of dynamic language symposium
not oopsla main. side conf. but yeah, invited speaker :) 14:20
which means I don't have to submit a paper.
obra ah :)
audreyt so that means 24~26 is perfectly good hacktime for me, as is probably 19 and 20 14:21
obra *nod* 14:22
sounds like we have a potential plan. 14:23
sadly, it doesn't mean I have to go to .tw 14:24
clkao i will be back home tomorrow noonish
obra: winter is not there yet
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gaal_ remoose 14:26
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audreyt hey gaal. I've looked at your patch 14:30
and :(Int $x) seems doable
and I wonder if we should bump CompUnit version for this
but I need to fade now...
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audreyt *wave* & 14:32
gaal why need compunit be bumped? we don't use this parser for blocks/subs/methods yet 14:34
anymoose named args and fixing 'is X' look more urgent than Int $x... 14:36
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gaal was there any additional thought given to the relationship of multis and guards? 14:37
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Limbic_Region hrmmm - my make smoke output looks awfully strange 15:32
um - pugs on Win32 is b0rk 15:33
pasteling "Limbic_Region" at pasted "Win32 is currently b0rked" (17 lines, 1.8K) at 15:34
Limbic_Region This smoke report isn't going to look too good 15:35
Limbic_Region does a rebuild just in case
anyone else having this problem (Win32 or otherwise)? 15:37
[particle] makes unoptimized pugs 15:38
Limbic_Region particle - you are Win32 exclusively or is it one of multiple environments you build pugs in? 15:42
[particle] i'm win32-msvc only for now