svn switch --relocate svn.openfoundry.org/pugs svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
Set by avar on 16 November 2006.
00:06 froggero1 joined
froggero1 hey does anyone know where to find some good documentation about creating perl modules and how that process works... dealing with the makefile and all that jazz, as well as modifying exsisting modules? 00:07
mugwump for perl 5 or 6? 00:08
froggero1 probably 5 to start, are there many changes?
(the only reason I say 5 is because that's what mac's ship with :p)
mugwump perl 6 is a complete redesign
froggero1 what would you suggest? 00:09
which is easier to work with, having no knowledge of either system
mugwump 5 has more documentation and examples... depends if you feel like being an early adopter I guess
some people are making real applications with perl 6 already, and an early perl 6 alpha is due soon 00:10
froggero1 hmm...
mugwump did you find the perlmod* manual pages in the perl 5 distro?
froggero1 I haven't even started looking for docs yet, still finishing my morning cofee :) 00:11
Debolaz Now to figure out a genious way of keeping and passing around config stuff in my script. 00:12
froggero1 eh... just started touching on the subject of perl6... looks like it's a little conviluted to get it installed on os x 00:13
so, let's just say that we're looking for perl5 documentation for mods ;)
that's preferably not a man page
wolverian either use the perldoc tool (perldoc perlmod), or perldoc.perl.org 00:14
Debolaz What's the "right" way to load a module runtime? Still eval "use $module"? 00:16
mugwump require $module works, too 00:22
froggero1 mathforum.org/~ken/perl_modules.html looks like some alright docs 00:27
lambdabot Title: Creating (and Maintaining) Perl Modules
froggero1 thanks lambdabot
a bit out of date it seems though... oh well :) 00:32
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Debolaz froggero1: www.apress.com/free/index.html <- Second book. 00:35
lambdabot Title: A P R E S S . C O M
froggero1 you wrote that? 00:41
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alexi5 hello 01:11
when is perl 6 going to take over perl 5 01:12
Tene Tomorrow, actually. 01:19
You're one day too early.
GeJ alexi5: the release plan says Christmas. Unfortunately, due to network issues, the document got corrupted, and the actual year of the release got lost on the Interweb. 01:26
but I was told that the perl.org admins are working on this and try to get the missing bits back. 01:27
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Debolaz I guess this might sound stupid, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to dereference a hash. 02:32
eviltwin_b %myhash = (...); say %myhash<string> 02:34
(for literal string)
{} like in perl5 for an expression
Debolaz Well, I'm trying to pass a hash reference to a constructor (Configuration data). submethod BUILD ($config); This takes input from "filename".slurp.eval(:lang<yaml>); 02:36
eviltwin_b if it's a hash reference stored in a scalar then it's e.g. $config<string> or $config{expression} 02:38
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Debolaz Seems the problem was really that I thought <> would evaluate the statement. 02:43
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froggero1 does anyone know of a good perdoc to html converter? 03:43
audreyt alias pod2html='perl -MPod::Simple::HTML -e Pod::Simple::HTML::go' 03:58
pod2html foo.pod > foo.html
need to install POD::Simple from CPAN
froggero1 rgr, thanks :)
audreyt np :)
Debolaz audreyt :) 03:59
froggero1 um... wait, what if my POD's inside the mod?
audreyt froggero1: still works
froggero1 cool
eviltwin_b then feed it the module, the pod tools handle that
froggero1 just use the .pm then?
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froggero1 nice 03:59
Debolaz gets no reply from audreyt :/
Chewie[] www.deviantart.com/deviation/43715043/ - That should be the Perl 6 mascot.
lambdabot Title: Dream Creature by ~kittiemeow on deviantART 04:00
audreyt Debolaz: er sorry. %()
%$foo %(..expr..)
Debolaz This was eventually figured out once I discovered that <> did not do what I thought it did. 04:02
audreyt what is this <>? 04:03
Debolaz obj.method(:argument<literal>) 04:04
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audreyt aha. you want :moose(expr) 04:05
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Debolaz I opted with the more familiar and not as frightening argument => foo :) 04:05
audreyt timtowtdi... 04:06
Debolaz So it turns out I actually had the hash dereferencing right the first time but I was passing a literal string instead of a hash reference. 04:07
Hopefully I'll get a little bit better, this is my first serious perl 6 project, a package manager for multiple backends. 04:08
audreyt oooh 04:09
Debolaz my $pm = PM.new; my $xchat_package = $pm.find('xchat'); $xchat_package.install; Or one can use $pm to manage packages on the system: $pm.want($xchat_package); $pm.sync; 04:22
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xinming mises audreyt... :-) 04:43
audreyt xinming: me too :) at latest I'll be back on 9th, hopefully sooner 04:52
xinming >_< Ok, are you busy for job? 05:08
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audreyt @tell fglock turns out my macbook is two 256MB... is yours 512 or 256? 06:40
lambdabot Consider it noted.
audreyt @tell fglock anyway I'll still send both to you :)
lambdabot Consider it noted.
lypanov audreyt: depends how much he had
audreyt: macbook pro's come with uneven amounts. macbooks have equal amounts in each slot 06:41
as in, if it were a 1gb machine, it'd be 2*512
fwiw :P
audreyt yeah. I was afraid that he'd have two 256s
in which case fedexing mine ot him won't help
lypanov audreyt: sure it would. sell 'em and get something else :) heh 06:44
Tene Heh. 06:45
audreyt er. the problem was fnac sao paulo, where we got fglock's new macbook, didn't have any more ram units
lypanov audreyt: ach. hey btw :) 06:46
audreyt hey :) 06:47
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Debolaz @array.foreach { # What's wrong with this? 07:59
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
Tene There isn't a postfix foreach. 08:01
TimToady (there isn't any "foreach") 08:02
Tene That too.
There also isn't a postfix for, I don't think.
TimToady and you can't supply an argument to a method without () or :
there will be a .each. it's just not implemented yet. 08:05
anyway, there's: 08:08
?eval my @array = 1,2,3; @array.map: { .say }
evalbot_r14848 OUTPUT[1ā¤2ā¤3ā¤] (Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True)
TimToady ?eval my @array = 1,2,3; for @array { .say } 08:09
evalbot_r14848 OUTPUT[1ā¤2ā¤3ā¤] undef
TimToady and that, of course.
Tene ?exal my @array = <one two threee>; for @array {say $_}
?eval my @array = <one two threee>; for @array {say $_} 08:10
evalbot_r14848 OUTPUT[oneā¤twoā¤threeeā¤] undef
araujo tries again svn 08:13
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dduncan TimToady, are you feeling better now (relative to some weeks earlier)? 08:21
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masak what's the difference between .map and .each? 09:05
(intuitively, I wouldn't expect a result array from .each)
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agentzh @tell audreyt how do you deal with nonascii sticky values in Jifty please? is there any special treatments? setting sticky_on_success to true only gives me some weird chars left in the textbox after the action is committed. :( 11:35
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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audreyt @tell agentzh try #jifty -- also I just committed a fix to jifty trunk that may have fixed this 12:14
lambdabot Consider it noted. 12:15
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araujo wonders if somebody has compiled pugs recently 12:48
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gaal araujo: I had some trouble with debian's new ghc 6.6, but had very little time to investigate 13:02
(something about cabal directives not parseable)
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Limbic_Region salutations all 13:56
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smash_ good afternoon 14:14
araujo gaal, ok, i am also trying with 6.6
Setup: error reading ./.setup-config; run "setup configure" command? 14:15
that's with , sh configure
Limbic_Region araujo - OSX ?
araujo no, gnu/linux
Limbic_Region you are trying to compile GHC then not pugs, sorry I misunderstood 14:16
araujo uh?
Limbic_Region you may need autoconf
araujo i already got ghc6.6 installed 14:17
Limbic_Region ok - so pugs should be perl Makefile.pl; make
no sh configure necessary
Limbic_Region suspects he is missing some vital information and goes back to read the irc logs 14:18
araujo mm...
Limbic_Region araujo - ok, after having read the logs you didn't describe what your problem was - just that you were having one 14:19
so - after ensuring that ghc and perl5 are both in your path
it should be as simple as
perl Makefile.PL
make
if those steps are failing, please nopaste
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araujo Limbic_Region, sh configure has never been used for pugs? 14:20
Limbic_Region no
araujo ok
Limbic_Region in fact, if you cat configure - it is just perl Makefile.PL $@ 14:21
admittedly, this should still work
araujo well, i keep getting that Setup error ...
Limbic_Region araujo - and where did you get your pugs from? - latest from repo or from CPAN or ??? 14:22
araujo i just got it from svn repo
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Limbic_Region hrm 14:23
araujo that's why i wonder if somebody has recently compiled it.
Limbic_Region have you tried make realclean; perl Makefile.PL; make
I compile it every day (sometimes multiple times)
araujo i'll do that now.
Limbic_Region and if you check the smoke reports, the last linux smoke was for r14842 14:24
which I think is only 6 revs ago
araujo - oh, and also out of curiosity, which repo are you using?> 14:26
agentzh araujo: you got errors during `configure`?
lambdabot agentzh: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
araujo svn.pugscode.org/pugs/
agentzh backlogs.
lambdabot Title: Revision 14848: /
araujo agentzh, no error
Limbic_Region araujo - ok, so after the realclean are you still having problems? 14:27
agentzh okay
araujo Limbic_Region, next to it, hold 14:28
agentzh audreyt: #jifty is terribly quiet. :)
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Limbic_Region is still holding 14:33
agentzh anyone willing to add tests for damian's S26 to the pugs test suite? :) 14:40
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agentzh (and also smartlinks) 14:40
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Limbic_Region araujo - still bombing? 14:58
obra morning 15:30
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fglock obra: good morning 15:50
obra heya fglock. how's things? 15:54
fglock obra: everything is fine; now planning what to do next :) 15:58
obra ooh. 15:59
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araujo mmm.... 16:07
Limbic_Region, perl Makefile.PL .... 16:08
That's just sh configure
same error 16:09
Limbic_Region well, you have it backwards 16:12
sh configure is just perl Makefile.PL
but it is weird that you are getting the same error
araujo :-( 16:13
Limbic_Region eval: my @foo = 1 .. 4; ~@foo
buubot Limbic_Region: 4294967291
Limbic_Region odd
araujo - can you nopaste the error with some (all?) the lines that came before it? 16:14
TimToady ?eval my @foo = 1 .. 4; ~@foo 16:15
evalbot_r14848 "1 2 3 4"
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Limbic_Region TimToady - yes, I just noticed buubot and wanted to see if it was functioning here (as in #perl) or if buu had it here for more nefarious purposes 16:16
araujo paste.lisp.org/display/30796
Limbic_Region I should have omitted the ~ though
araujo Limbic_Region, ideas? 16:19
Limbic_Region araujo - searching now
in your pugs directory there is no .setup-config file? 16:21
araujo no 16:22
Limbic_Region very odd 16:24
oh wait, no its not 16:25
your ghc is missing the extra-libs 16:26
yay
araujo - Setup: cannot satisfy dependency network-any
araujo - did you get a binary build or did you build yourself?
araujo? 16:29
@tell araujo Your problem is simple, your GHC doesn't have the extra-libs (Setup: cannot satisfy dependency network-any). If I had thought to ask for a nopaste earlier I would have seen it. If you built yourself you need to add the extra-libs before compiling - binary versions should have them included (at least for Win32). 16:32
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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ciberfe could someone help me, i need to make a webpage to upload images but i have to do it in perl and i dont know perl or cgi 17:41
PerlJam ciberfe: learn.perl.org 17:43
lambdabot Title: learn.perl.org: The site for people learning Perl.
PerlJam ciberfe: Also, note that this channel is about perl6 and you're probably looking for perl5 resources. Try #perl or #perlhelp or something of that nature. 17:44
ciberfe ok, sorry, i am desesperate 17:45
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Limbic_Region ?seen araujo 18:27
lambdabot araujo is in #perl6, #gentoo-haskell, #haskell and #Haskell. I last heard araujo speak 2h 4m 53s ago.
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eviltwin_b whoops 18:31
eviltwin_b leaves a note to dons that his patch to lambdabot is a little broken still :> 18:32
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ozo tr 18:42
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wolverian okay, who's forgetting nice? :) 18:49
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PerlJam Juerd should enforce some niceness :) 18:54
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GeJ mōæ½xF8ōæ½xF8se folks 19:13
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fglock re MP6 - I'm deciding on what to do next - finish Parrot bootstrap; start a 'D' language implementation; start working on MP6-MO - opinions are welcome 19:30
PerlJam fglock: where can I read more on mp6? just the docs in pugs? 19:32
(or code)
fglock PerlJam: svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-MiniPerl6/ - there are several .pod files 19:34
lambdabot Title: Revision 14848: /v6/v6-MiniPerl6
[particle] fglock: what's currently using mp6?
PerlJam fglock: in general my opinion would be that you NOT implement D :-) 19:35
fglock [particle]: it is not used yet, it is only used by itself
PerlJam: any particular reason? 19:36
PerlJam fglock: purely selfish reasons. I think that the parrot bootstrap or mp6-mo have more promise in the big picture.
[particle] how about bc on mp6?
fglock PerlJam: ok 19:37
PerlJam fglock: if I had my druthers, I'd ask you to finish the parrot bootstrap. But no real logic behind that either :-)
[particle] pmichaud and i are working on languages/abc/ in parrot, if that could use mp6 it'd give us a good example of what mp6 can do for compilers
s/s$/ writers/ 19:38
PerlJam [particle]: It would be good to see a direct comparison between the two approaches there.
[particle] pj: precisely
right now, neither pm or i can see how to use mp6... that's a problem 19:39
an example (any example even) would help
but bc seems like a good fit to me
fglock [particle]: mp6 is implemented in mp6 :)
PerlJam the AST reminds me of pascal for some reason 19:40
[particle] yes, i know, but a less twisted^W^W more concrete example might help
or, translating parrot ast to mp6 ast would be a good example, too 19:41
fglock audreyt could answer best - the "tree-transformations" was her idea 19:42
[particle] i have a dream of tcl on js
PerlJam fglock: what's with the double-$ everywhere? 19:43
[particle] fglock: okay, i'll ask audreyt whenever we're both around
fglock PerlJam: it's the syntax to extract the return-object from a perl6 Match 19:44
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PerlJam looks at some generated code an nearly falls out of his seat 19:45
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PerlJam I have never seen so much "do" :-) 19:46
pmurias hi all
fglock: are there any particular reasons you want to make a D implementation? 19:47
fglock pmurias: audreyt said it would be cool
TimToady she says that about a lot of things. :)
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PerlJam fglock: if you want my opinion, I'd say finish the parrot boostrap and then work on a version of bc that uses mp6 as an analog to tge 19:53
TimToady that makes a lot of sense to me too. 19:54
fglock PerlJam: the plan for MP6 is to use it for bootstrapping more complex versions of MP6 itself 19:56
I don't see how implementing bc would help 19:57
PerlJam fglock: it wouldn't help *you* necessarily, but it would help pmichaud and particle :)
TimToady one of the goals here is to get the MP6 and the TGE teams to start saying "ooh, shiny" to each other. 19:58
fglock TimToady: that makes sense 19:59
[particle] right now i'm saying, "hey it works on windows! *phew* but what's it good for?" 20:00
fglock in this case, how about implementing TGE in MP6 20:01
[particle] what i'd like is to see a perl6ish syntax to do tree transformations 20:02
using parrot ast
TimToady whatever it takes for them to continue converging...
PerlJam indeed, convergence is good
pmichaud the problem with "implement TGE in MP6" is that TGE grammars are still heavily PIR based 20:03
we're still looking for a good tree transformation syntax
[particle] yes, of course it's also a goal to make tge grammar less pir-based
fglock TimToady: does "Matching against non-strings" in S05 could have something to do with tree transformations? 20:04
TimToady I was using "TGE" to refer generically to present and future syntaxes.
fglock: yes
and in particular binding tree nodes to subsignatures
pmichaud TimToady: (TGE) Yes, I took it that way :-)
TimToady that plus decent constructor syntax is about all you need for tree transforms. 20:05
fglock binding tree nodes to subsignatures is like: sub foo ( ::Tree $top (:$left, :$right) ) { ... } ? 20:07
TimToady I think something MP6-ish is very close to what Parrot needs. 20:08
fglock: yes
can also be used with smart matching.
(though how that declares things is a good question...) 20:09
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TimToady might need a "when" variant that matches if the parameters to its block bind successfully. 20:12
maybe "when -> $a, $b {...}" or some such
except that's ambiguous with current notation
hmm, or maybe it just works if you add an empty block after: 20:13
when -> $a, $b {...} {} 20:14
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PerlJam I'm still trying to wrap my mind around things. Someone set me striaght. "tree transform" sounds like it could be "capturing" and "currying" And "signatures" sound like "tree node" or something like that. 20:15
I feel like there's an idea on the tip of my brain that just won't come out. 20:16
[particle] notes PerlJam has a pointy brain
PerlJam At least it's not smooth! 20:17
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Limbic_Region ?seen araujo 20:22
lambdabot araujo is in #perl6, #gentoo-haskell, #haskell and #Haskell. I last heard araujo speak 4h 3s ago.
fglock TimToady: how about 'when ::Tree $_ (:$left, :$right) {...}' 20:25
'when hash $_ (:$left, :$right) {...}' 20:26
even: 'when .hash(:$left, :$right) {...}' 20:27
home & 20:30
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stevan_ [particle]: what is bc? 21:01
[particle] basic calculator 21:02
stevan_ ah
[particle] man bc
cognominal pointy brain is one of the buddhahoud sign, I think 21:05
s/houd/hood/
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pmichaud I have a question about t/01-sanity/07-tailcall.t 21:20
07-tailcall.t has the line: &baz.goto("param1", "param2");
it's pretty obvious what this does, but is the 'goto' method defined anywhere in the Synopses? 21:21
Limbic_Region grrr - disconnected? 21:22
pmichaud - cd docs/Perl6/spec; grep goto *.pod
there
it appears goto is mentioned most in S04 21:23
Blocks and Statements
pmichaud I think that's "goto LABEL", not "goto" as a method on a sub
Limbic_Region there is one mention in S06
pmichaud I think the S06 mention is compiler-implementation detail 21:24
Limbic_Region right
Limbic_Region was just pulling all references to "goto" from the synopses
[particle] there's a goto sub op reference in S10, but not a definition, and no method syntax mentions
pmichaud (yes, I already did grep 'goto' on the synopses and apocalypses) 21:25
[particle] ...grep is so last century...
pmichaud okay, I lied, I did 'ack'
[particle] :)
pmichaud I meant 'grep' the verb, not 'grep' the last century tool
eviltwin_b grep is dead, long live grep? 21:28
Tene aram.xkcd.com:8080/imgsample/warrantyvoid.png 21:40
lambdabot tinyurl.com/uu3oh
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Juerd 19:54 < PerlJam> Juerd should enforce some niceness :) 23:25
PerlJam: You could of course run "top" and contact people who overload feather yourself... :)
I didn't limit resources, so non-root can also see this kind of info :)
wolverian can you see what process it was after the fact? 23:30
s/you/I/ # :)
[particle] wolverian: Juerd probably won't see that unless you mention him by name :) 23:44
so he should catch it now
wolverian thanks. :)
Juerd wolverian: No 23:46
[particle]: It even has to be the first word for it to highlight. I'm mentioned too often :( 23:47
wolverian Juerd, I'll try to be more proactive, then. thanks.
Juerd does occasional /lastlog's, though
[particle] juerd: thanks for the hint :)
wolverian (or rather, to react faster.)
Juerd By the way. Is my impression correct that Perl 6 development and discussion are not so active at the moment? 23:48
Juerd hasn't had much energy for the project, but fears that this is true for many more people 23:49
[particle] ENOAUDREY flag needs to be cleared, i think
weirdo O_ENOAUDREY 23:52
:-)

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